Holy smokes- this is why I said I was with Spieth et al

[burrrton]

I had a conversation with a golf pro recently about going to Rio to golf. I said there was no way in hell I'd go to Brazil (hypothetically), and he said he'd go in a heartbeat.

Guess I was right:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimming/s ... mes-feigen

Lochte et al get robbed, one of many such incidents, then the government tries to yank their passports, confining them to the country. Now I see two of the swimmers have been detained. [edit- everyone but Lochte, who was smart enough to get the fck out of there, have been detained]

Thanks, IOC, for awarding the Olympics to a banana republic.

[c_hawkbob]

I absolutely agree that the Olympics have no business being in Brazil (but then, Sarajevo was a modern cosmopolitan city when they hosted the Olympics too ...) and I think the Brazilian authorities are way out of line wanting to detain the victims in this incident in order to get to the truth when the same ends could have been attained by simply requesting access to the athletes through standard diplomatic channels, which would have allowed for the individuals to protect themselves with legal representation according to their own country's laws.

To be fair to the Brazilian authorities though; there were inconsistencies in the stories (timelines, not reporting the incident to the IOC initially, etc.) told by Lochte and the other swimmers, and they do have their host country's reputation to think about. This is exactly the black eye they were hoping to avoid.

I don't think our boys were completely truthful (at least in the first few versions of the story) but they are most importantly still the victims in this story and the Brazilians are completely obviously going after the softer target; it's waaayy easier to go after the athletes stories than to actually try to track down the criminals. That's why we have laws in place, politically popular or not, protecting victims rights.

And BTW, latest news is that the three boys still in Brazil have been released after promising further cooperation with authorities.

[burrrton]

And BTW, latest news is that the three boys still in Brazil have been released after promising further cooperation with authorities.

Good to hear. Hadn't seen anything this morning yet.

I hadn't read any 'no way this is true' inconsistencies, just things you might expect from three drunk kids at 2am.

As for not going to the IOC or police, I can't blame them- they were just robbed at gunpoint by men presenting themselves as police, and just guessing, but I bet calling the authorities would be step #1 for the IOC if an armed robbery is reported to them.

Regarding not being able to track down the cabby- I think it's obvious he was in on it, pulling over for someone flashing a badge in the road (I've read they hardly stop for red lights).

To me, the big picture looks consistent with three drunk kids getting robbed by a corrupt cab driver and either 3 corrupt cops or 3 crooks posing as cops, and their response and behavior seems consistent with that scenario.

[c_hawkbob]

Good to hear. Hadn't seen anything this morning yet.

NBC Sports Radio this morning on the way to work.

* And of course the cabby was in on it. Wouldn't surprise me if the perps actually were cops too. ... like I said, the athlete's story is just the softer target.

[burrrton]

Reading now that Lochte said the cab wasn't 'pulled over', but instead they were robbed after stopping at a gas station.

[edit]

Quick summary:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/olymp ... story.html

[c_hawkbob]

Reading now that Lochte said the cab wasn't 'pulled over', but instead they were robbed after stopping at a gas station.

That's what the guy on the radio was saying; that the story has changed a few times and by now they're probably at the truth,

[c_hawkbob]

Now it looks as if there's a video that proves Lochte made the story up to cover up a fight he got in with a security guard ... this doesn't look good at all: http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/olympic ... CID=MF11S4

[burrrton]

Holy smokes again- sounds like they lied their @sses off. Apologies to Rio for assuming the worst and believing them. Shameful:

http://www.espn.com/olympics/swimming/s ... e-incident

[edit- not sure how I missed your post of virtually the same thing- oh well- deserves to be posted twice- horrible]

[RiverDog]

Shameful is an understatement. If these stories are true, then these a-holes out to be banned from ever participating in an Olympic event again, but that won't begin to repair the damage to our image and how people overseas view us Americans.

[burrrton]

Not sure it's worth revisiting, but it sounds like this isn't such a cut-and-dry case of Lochte lying:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ol ... /89082232/

"At a news conference Thursday, Rio police chief Fernando Veloso characterized the athletes' actions at the gas station as vandalism. He said they also had broken a soap dispenser and mirror inside the restroom. Reports quickly grew that the Americans had trashed the restroom.

A USA TODAY Sports videographer who visited the bathroom Thursday found no damage to soap dispensers and mirrors and said none of those items appeared to be new. Some media accounts suggested the men had broken down a door, which USA TODAY Sports also did not observe."

[RiverDog]

Not sure it's worth revisiting, but it sounds like this isn't such a cut-and-dry case of Lochte lying:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ol ... /89082232/

"At a news conference Thursday, Rio police chief Fernando Veloso characterized the athletes' actions at the gas station as vandalism. He said they also had broken a soap dispenser and mirror inside the restroom. Reports quickly grew that the Americans had trashed the restroom.

A USA TODAY Sports videographer who visited the bathroom Thursday found no damage to soap dispensers and mirrors and said none of those items appeared to be new. Some media accounts suggested the men had broken down a door, which USA TODAY Sports also did not observe."

IMO the fact that the Brazilians are dirty as well doesn't change much, at least in regard to Lochte, who's already admitted to fabricating his original story. Had he not made up such a fantastic, sensational story, then it might have been possible for both sides to save face by keeping it out of the public's eye. But by this story going viral, the genie's been let out of the bottle. The damage he did to both us Americans and the Brazilians is irreparable.

[burrrton]

I don't recall him saying he completely fabricated the story, only exaggerated it (I think there's a difference). And I think when you read the entire account, this looks like Brazillian authorities did a LOT of CYA to hide the swimmers getting shaken down by a couple of security guards.

It *is* still embarrassing to us, but that's in large part due to the old "a lie makes it halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes", both for Lochte's story and now for Brazil's BS.

It'll be interesting to see how much play this gets compared to what his exaggeration got.

[c_hawkbob]

I think he gets 6 months to a year suspension from USA Swimming and everybody moves on with their lives.

The bigger damage has already been done as he's already losing sponsors and the nickname "Lyin Ryan" is gonna stick.

[EmeraldBullet]

RD worded it better than I can, but I agree with what he said.

[RiverDog]

I don't recall him saying he completely fabricated the story, only exaggerated it (I think there's a difference). And I think when you read the entire account, this looks like Brazillian authorities did a LOT of CYA to hide the swimmers getting shaken down by a couple of security guards.

It *is* still embarrassing to us, but that's in large part due to the old "a lie makes it halfway around the world before the truth puts on its shoes", both for Lochte's story and now for Brazil's BS.

It'll be interesting to see how much play this gets compared to what his exaggeration got.

Well, he can use whatever term he wants to describe his statements. IMO he admitted that he lied about it, and completely made up major parts of his original story.

[c_hawkbob]

He took what should have been a minor embarrassment that would have much more appropriately lived on only as a story between old friends reminiscing about the stupid things they used to do and turned it into an international incident because he just had to tell the stories to anyone that would listen, a little more extreme and with himself more the heroic tough guy with each telling.

The whole thing was childish and ridiculous and the amount of fibbing or "over exaggerating" that went on is as irrelevant at the air pressure in Tom Brady's balls.

He's a 32 year old man that was hanging out with kids acting the fool to impress them and when sh!t got serious he bailed on them! He left his buddies holding the bag while he got the hell outa Dodge ...

Lyin' Ryan's name is dirt and it deserves to be.

[RiverDog]

He took what should have been a minor embarrassment that would have much more appropriately lived on only as a story between old friends reminiscing about the stupid things they used to do and turned it into an international incident because he just had to tell the stories to anyone that would listen, a little more extreme and with himself more the heroic tough guy with each telling.

The whole thing was childish and ridiculous and the amount of fibbing or "over exaggerating" that went on is as irrelevant at the air pressure in Tom Brady's balls.

He's a 32 year old man that was hanging out with kids acting the fool to impress them and when sh!t got serious he bailed on them! He left his buddies holding the bag while he got the hell outa Dodge ...

Lyin' Ryan's name is dirt and it deserves to be.

I agree completely, except that I'm not sure I can go along with your analogy regarding Tom Brady's testicles.

[burrrton]

I have no problem beating up Lochte- it's just obvious now that the Brazillian 'authorities' weren't the slandered victims the story had morphed them into once it was obvious Lochte wasn't the victim he purported himself to be.

And yeah, bailing on your teammates in a situation like that is almost comically chicken-sht.

[RiverDog]

I have no problem beating up Lochte- it's just obvious now that the Brazillian 'authorities' weren't the slandered victims the story had morphed them into once it was obvious Lochte wasn't the victim he purported himself to be.

And yeah, bailing on your teammates in a situation like that is almost comically chicken-sht.

Brazil is a banana republic, so it should be no surprise to any of us that they bungled the investigation and made some major F-ups in reporting it. This was the first ever Olympics on the continent, and their inexperience in handling the PR side showed in more than just this incident. And I disagree that the Brazilians weren't slandered victims. Lochte's the one that started it by lying his ass off, forced the Brazilians to defend themselves, and brought the scrutiny of the entire world down on top of both parties. If all he did was to keep his mouth shut, this whole situation would have been a non story and played out pretty much how Cbob described it. If I were to assign blame, it would be about 90% Lochte, 5% on his teammates, and 5% Brazil.

[burrrton]

And I disagree that the Brazilians weren't slandered victims.

Saying "banana republics will be banana republics" doesn't get 'Brazil' off the hook any more than saying "boys will be boys" gets Lochte et al off the hook.

I think it's pretty much accepted now that Lochte tore some beat up poster off a wall or something, the 4 swimmers took a leak behind the gas station, then two security guards of some kind demanded money off them at gunpoint to "pay for the damage".

That doesn't make Lochte's story accurate, but they didn't 'trash a bathroom' and all the other stuff they were accused of, and it sure as hell doesn't get the Brazillian authorities 95% off the hook for shaking down athletes for $75 at gunpoint. None of that can be dismissed as merely a "major f-up in reporting".

[c_hawkbob]

I don't think you can say they didn't trash the bathroom any more than you can say they did kick the door off the hinges. I don't think the stories from either side are accurate (or at least verifiable) enough to draw such definite conclusions.

[burrrton]

I don't think you can say they didn't trash the bathroom any more than you can say they did kick the door off the hinges. I don't think the stories from either side are accurate (or at least verifiable) enough to draw such definite conclusions.

Read the article I posted- there was no damage to the bathroom, and the other swimmers (the ones who stayed behind and told the truth about what happened) said nobody did anything like that.

[RiverDog]

Saying "banana republics will be banana republics" doesn't get 'Brazil' off the hook any more than saying "boys will be boys" gets Lochte et al off the hook.

Third world countries operate a lot differently than we do here. They are a lot less litigious society than we are as the cops are the judge, jury, and the executioner. I had a friend that while visiting Mexico, parked his rental car somewhere that he wasn't supposed to and the cops took the plates and he had to pay to get them back. Bribery and corruption is common. When I was in Peru last spring, I was told that if you get pulled over for what would be a sure DUI in the States, a simple $20 will get you off the hook.

I'm not using that as an excuse for the Brazilian's screw ups and 5% is probably a little too light, but that's just the way it is down there. The security guards were just doing what they do, it wasn't anything exceptional for that society. As the saying goes, when in Rome, do as the Romans.

[burrrton]

The security guards were just doing what they do, it wasn't anything exceptional for that society.

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they *did* 'do what they do', Lochte *didn't* just invent a story whole-cloth, and the Brazilian authorities lied at least as much as he did, if not more.

[RiverDog]

Sure, but that doesn't change the fact that they *did* 'do what they do', Lochte *didn't* just invent a story whole-cloth, and the Brazilian authorities lied at least as much as he did, if not more.

But Lochte (and the other swimmers) started it. They were the ones that 'threw the first punch', so to speak. They don't misbehave and nothing happens. Plus they were Brazil's guests, and representing the red, white, and blue. I'll call out our guys and let the Brazilians take care of their own problems.

[burrrton]

But Lochte (and the other swimmers) started it. They were the ones that 'threw the first punch', so to speak. They don't misbehave and nothing happens. Plus they were Brazil's guests, and representing the red, white, and blue. I'll call out our guys and let the Brazilians take care of their own problems.

I see your point, but if you're going to dismiss shaking down foreign athletes for money at gunpoint as just something third-world banana republics do, couldn't the same be said for Lochte and friends as just something drunk guys will do?

To be clear, I'm not inclined to do either, but if I was inclined to give one of them a pass as you seem to be, I think I'd have to do the same for both.

It's apparent now there were no innocent parties here.

[RiverDog]

I see your point, but if you're going to dismiss shaking down foreign athletes for money at gunpoint as just something third-world banana republics do, couldn't the same be said for Lochte and friends as just something drunk guys will do?

To be clear, I'm not inclined to do either, but if I was inclined to give one of them a pass as you seem to be, I think I'd have to do the same for both.

It's apparent now there were no innocent parties here.

I'm not dismissing anything or giving the Brazilians a pass. All I'm saying is that when you travel to a foreign country, especially a 3rd world country like Brazil, you should not be surprised if you encounter police and security guards that pull their weapons at the drop of a hat. Citizens in those countries do not respect the law and they do not respect a uniform. But they do respect a gun. It's the only way the authorities can get people to act. I'm not saying it's right, I'm simply saying that's the way things are down there. It's not a lot different than the old west. No one would respect a sheriff with a badge, but they did respect one with a gun. Up here, we don't even think of police as being armed and there is little need for them to ever draw their weapon.

I do agree that there are no innocent parties. Our only disagreement we have is in how much blame each party gets. I'm much more inclined to blame the Americans than I am the host country.

[burrrton]

I'm not dismissing anything or giving the Brazilians a pass.

I'm much more inclined to blame the Americans than I am the host country.

So you're not giving them a pass, you're just not going to give them virtually any of the blame.

Our only disagreement we have is in how much blame each party gets.

Right, but your rationale for not giving Brazil much blame is essentially "that's what third-world banana republics do", and I'm not sure that's very solid rationale for letting them off the hook.

[RiverDog]

Right, but your rationale for not giving Brazil much blame is essentially "that's what third-world banana republics do", and I'm not sure that's very solid rationale for letting them off the hook.

I'm not letting them off of the hook. IMO it should be another 20 years before the international community goes back to Brazil for an Olympics, World Cup, or any other sporting, political, or social event with high international exposure. They're not ready for prime time and they need that much time to grow up as do all of the other 3rd world countries in South America and Africa.

But given the current state of affairs, I cannot assign the same degree of blame on the Brazilians as I do the Americans.

[burrrton]

But given the current state of affairs, I cannot assign the same degree of blame on the Brazilians as I do the Americans.

But the current state of affairs is that Lochte *was* essentially shaken down for money at gunpoint, and the bathroom *wasn't* trashed.

Lochte's lies didn't slander any entity unfairly, merely exaggerating the actual situation (they didn't take their wallets, etc), but the Brazilian authorities' lies were completely made up and designed to trash the swimmers' reputations and get 'Rio' off the hook (the swimmers didn't trash a bathroom, break down a door, etc).

I don't know- it's water under the bridge now- I'm just not sure I can spread the blame as unevenly given those facts.

[edit]

Wanted to add: this is all based on what I *think* we know for sure now. I won't be surprised at all if we find out in the coming weeks that there is more to the story, either in Lochte's favor or Rio's, so I reserve the right to go Emily Litella if necessary.

[RiverDog]

But the current state of affairs is that Lochte *was* essentially shaken down for money at gunpoint, and the bathroom *wasn't* trashed.

Lochte's lies didn't slander any entity unfairly, merely exaggerating the actual situation (they didn't take their wallets, etc), but the Brazilian authorities' lies were completely made up and designed to trash the swimmers' reputations and get 'Rio' off the hook (the swimmers didn't trash a bathroom, break down a door, etc).

I don't know- it's water under the bridge now- I'm just not sure I can spread the blame as unevenly given those facts.

[edit]

Wanted to add: this is all based on what I *think* we know for sure now. I won't be surprised at all if we find out in the coming weeks that there is more to the story, either in Lochte's favor or Rio's, so I reserve the right to go Emily Litella if necessary.

But there is one fact that we know won't change: Lochte and the others were guests in a foreign country.

[burrrton]

But there is one fact that we know won't change: Lochte and the others were guests in a foreign country.

Yup, and none of it would have happened had they not been out being drunk kids.

That (and him saying they took their wallets when they hadn't, etc) is why I'm willing to lay half the blame at his feet.

[RiverDog]

Yup, and none of it would have happened had they not been out being drunk kids.

That (and him saying they took their wallets when they hadn't, etc) is why I'm willing to lay half the blame at his feet.

One other fact I forgot to mention: Lochte is 32 years old. You can't write it off as his just being a drunk kid. He should have stepped up and taken responsibility and he didn't, thus he forced the Brazilians into a defensive position, of which they handled poorly. Once again, more blame on the Americans vs. the Brazilians.

[c_hawkbob]

One other fact I forgot to mention: Lochte is 32 years old. You can't write it off as his just being a drunk kid. He should have stepped up and taken responsibility and he didn't, thus he forced the Brazilians into a defensive position, of which they handled poorly. Once again, more blame on the Americans vs. the Brazilians.

It wasn't totally overlooked in this thread:

He's a 32 year old man that was hanging out with kids acting the fool to impress them and when sh!t got serious he bailed on them! He left his buddies holding the bag while he got the hell outa Dodge ...

Lyin' Ryan's name is dirt and it deserves to be.

[RiverDog]

It (Lochte's age) wasn't totally overlooked in this thread:

I was referring to my own mistake in overlooking Lochte's age when I was talking about facts that wouldn't change (ie being the guest of a foreign country). And just to give credit where credit was due, it was your comment that you quoted that caused me to remember that little factoid.

[burrrton]

For the record, I knew Lochte wasn't some 13yo we should cut some slack- I'm just saying if you're out partying like a 20yo, you're kind of in the 'kid' mindset.

Not excusing him on the same level as I think he should be if he was a sophomore in HS or something.