election security

[Hawktawk]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/chines ... t-n1104516

This scares me. I want americans electing our candidates. IMO paper ballots should be used along with photo ID no exceptions.

[RiverDog]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/chinese-parts-hidden-ownership-growing-scrutiny-inside-america-s-biggest-n1104516

This scares me. I want americans electing our candidates. IMO paper ballots should be used along with photo ID no exceptions.

I'm good with photo ID so long as they will give you one for free. Otherwise, it's no different than a poll tax as you are asking a voter to produce something of value that took money to acquire. It currently costs a little over $50 in WA for a state issued photo ID, and there are people out there, like those living in nursing homes, that have no other use for a photo ID.

I don't like paper ballots because of what happened in FL back in 2000, with the hanging chads issue. IMO the mechanical voting machines are the most effective and most secure devices.

But neither are applicable in this state as we're 100% vote by mail, which I don't think is anymore secure than electronic balloting. What's to stop me from signing my ballot and giving it to my neighbor to fill out and mail in? In most cases, IMO you should have to show up at a polling place to cast your ballot.

[Hawktawk]

If the government wanted to get real they should provide free photo ID to everyone who is legal to vote unless they already have a drivers license or other approved photo Id. Again though these computerized machines are scary beyond belief. We have Russia clearly prepared to meddle again for their lap dog , having breached voter information in at least 3 states in 2016 and hacking Dem Senators in the midterms. Trumps done almost nothing to stop it and that was under bipartisan pressure kicking and screaming. How anyone who loves America can accept interference in our elections is mystifying .

[RiverDog]

If the government wanted to get real they should provide free photo ID to everyone who is legal to vote unless they already have a drivers license or other approved photo Id. Again though these computerized machines are scary beyond belief. We have Russia clearly prepared to meddle again for their lap dog , having breached voter information in at least 3 states in 2016 and hacking Dem Senators in the midterms. Trumps done almost nothing to stop it and that was under bipartisan pressure kicking and screaming. How anyone who loves America can accept interference in our elections is mystifying .

IMO if they ever do require photo ID, then they'd have to provide it for free or else they'd likely be in violation of the 24th Amendment. The only way they were able to keep vote by mail from not violating this amendment when they used to require a first class postage stamp was that they also had ballot box locations where you could drop them off for free.

There's other means of positive ID available, too, including retina scans, facial recognition, etc, that they could employ as a method of validating a voter's identity.

You're preaching to the choir in your disdain for electronic balloting. Bring back the mechanical voting machines!

[Aseahawkfan]

If the government wanted to get real they should provide free photo ID to everyone who is legal to vote unless they already have a drivers license or other approved photo Id. Again though these computerized machines are scary beyond belief. We have Russia clearly prepared to meddle again for their lap dog , having breached voter information in at least 3 states in 2016 and hacking Dem Senators in the midterms. Trumps done almost nothing to stop it and that was under bipartisan pressure kicking and screaming. How anyone who loves America can accept interference in our elections is mystifying .

I don't feel threatened by Russia at all. Not even a little bit.

The far bigger threat is China. You seemed fine when the Chinese were sitting down to dinner with the Clintons in the 1990s. You seem to have forgotten all about it while you scream "Country before Party" in relation to Trump. You don't care that the Clintons were in bed with the Chinese for decades. The Chinese have been crapping all over us, but you want Americans to pay more attention to pathetic Russia? Really? That's great.

So tell me how much of a threat Russia is, break it down for me geopolitically and economically. When I'm looking at economics and the map, Russia is small potatoes. Their economy isn't very powerful. They rely heavily on oil. The only place they invaded was taking back part of Ukraine that was historically theirs. About the only threat they exhibit is the old one of nuclear attack, which no one has much interest in including Putin.

Yet here we have a large Chinese nation with a massive economy pushing harder and harder to gain control in major parts of the world, but we're focused on the shrinking Russia. You want me to believe what you're selling about Russia because of your 'Hate Trump over Country over Party Over everything" and ignore what the real facts and dangers to my nation are because "My Hate of Trump is greater than all and I don't care if the country is destroyed because of it."

The realty is you and a bunch of people like you want Trump out at all costs and don't care about the country or the real threats to it. You're completely willing to buy into a Russia Hoax while ignoring the big bad wolf of China that is happy to sit back and watch the idiot Americans worry about the weakening Russia.

[Hawktawk]

I don't feel threatened by Russia at all. Not even a little bit.

The far bigger threat is China. You seemed fine when the Chinese were sitting down to dinner with the Clintons in the 1990s. You seem to have forgotten all about it while you scream "Country before Party" in relation to Trump. You don't care that the Clintons were in bed with the Chinese for decades. The Chinese have been crapping all over us, but you want Americans to pay more attention to pathetic Russia? Really? That's great.

So tell me how much of a threat Russia is, break it down for me geopolitically and economically. When I'm looking at economics and the map, Russia is small potatoes. Their economy isn't very powerful. They rely heavily on oil. The only place they invaded was taking back part of Ukraine that was historically theirs. About the only threat they exhibit is the old one of nuclear attack, which no one has much interest in including Putin.

Yet here we have a large Chinese nation with a massive economy pushing harder and harder to gain control in major parts of the world, but we're focused on the shrinking Russia. You want me to believe what you're selling about Russia because of your 'Hate Trump over Country over Party Over everything" and ignore what the real facts and dangers to my nation are because "My Hate of Trump is greater than all and I don't care if the country is destroyed because of it."

The realty is you and a bunch of people like you want Trump out at all costs and don't care about the country or the real threats to it. You're completely willing to buy into a Russia Hoax while ignoring the big bad wolf of China that is happy to sit back and watch the idiot Americans worry about the weakening Russia.

Well lets see, the military feels threatened by Russia. Bob Mueller says they are working daily as we sit here to affect our elections. Every intelligence service on the planet agrees russia interfered in the presidential election. Everyone but Trump, Putin, and apparently all knowing Asea believes they are a threat to our elections . Man I'm torn I dont know who to believe here You come across as not looking as smart as you are when you rant on about stuff without thinking.

I've broken down russia for you plenty of times but it doesn't break down the way you see it, most unfortunately. I'm well aware of the fact their economy minus oil sales and military weapons is about that of Italy. Unfortunately for the planet and especially America they have the most sophisticated nuclear arsenal in history, largest nuke sub fleet, far more advanced ICBMs, far more modern, the only country on the planet with more nukes than us. And they continue on a hell bent for leather pace developing new things , the recent accident in russia revealed the development of "skyfall" a nuclear reactor powered nuke that could stay aloft indefinitely. They are developing a torpedo with a Nuke on it capable of destroying entire seaports. Their development of a short range nuke mobile launcher led to the suspension of the arms treaty with the US, opening the door to another arms race they are already 10 laps ahead on.Just a few days ago I shared a link about their spy ship which was operating in an unsafe manner off of one of our Nuke Sub bases on the east coast. They snoop around the undersea data cables, light up our aircraft with AA radar in international air space,probe our air defenses with nuclear capable bombers etc. I could go on a while. And their leader PICKED TRUMP. and he DEFENDED TRUMP IN THE MEDIA FOLLOWING IMPEACHMENT. Trump regularly does his bidding.



What any of that has to do with China trade deals and relations with presidents over the decades since Nixon opened the door in the 70s is far beyond me. Plus the thread is about ELECTION SECURITY.If anything the US should be concerned with China and Russia teaming up in a future conflict.

It's sort of like the Trump team playbook. Make it not about Russia, muddy the waters. There is no evidence to suggest that China meddled in our elections, or Ukraine, or really anyone except russia although that may change this cycle. Military the Chinese are increasingly scary, particularly their actions in the south china seas and their development of hypersonic missiles that are potentially capable of decimating our pacific fleet in a standoff conflict. It's a scary time to have a mentally compromised baboon in the commander in chief role. My fear with russia is the greatest fear of the greatest war ever that could be over in an hour because Putin who is weakened and almost in a use it or lose it situation looks at this hapless fool, this orange baboon and says there's never gonna be a better time than when this F#(king idiot is on #5 at Trump National. Trump wouldnt believe the secret service when they told him we were under attack anyway. My buddy Vlad????naw we write love letters .

Im really tired of hearing how my hatred of trump and wanting him gone at all costs makes me not care about america. It's ridiculous, insulting to suggest opposing trump is somehow un american. It's the Trumptard talking points.Hating Trump is the logical response.

I loathe Trump along with A MAJORITY OF THE COUNTRY because I do love the country, worry about it, think a competent sane person who knows who our enemies and friends are is imperative in the office.

[RiverDog]

I tend to agree with ASF on this one, although I'm not going to go so far as saying that I don't feel threatened by Russia.

China is by far the more dangerous threat. They are much more active and confrontational militarily with a bigger army and navy, an aggressive foreign policy, building artificial islands in straits of commerce, a much larger economic threat, etc. One of the reasons why I didn't vote for HRC was due to the Clintons jumping in bed with the Red China and I'm convinced that if she would have been elected, that she'd be up to her panties in a scandal involving China equal to the one Trump is with Russia. That's not to dismiss the Russians, just that China is the larger concern to our long term interests.

[Hawktawk]

I don’t disagree in terms of China’s threat to us socioeconomically. They have the #2 economy in the world and becoming #1 is a matter of time. By comparison Russia’s is far outside the top 10. When it comes to the military threat they are increasing rapidly. They recently deployed their second aircraft carrier. Their actions in the South China Sea are bellicose and threatening . And as I’ve said and also seen military commanders comment they are far ahead of us in hypersonic missile capability , a weapon that is almost indefensible by our ships .

Still though I look at the nuclear threat as the greatest danger . If Russia has no interest in ever using them why keep developing more and more offensive nuclear weapons ? And to say well they only took Crimea? Wow. They have a significant portion of Ukraine now too. They conduct war games simulating an invasion of Europe. In my opinion their economic situation makes them more unstable , unpredictable and dangerous than China although both are a danger.

[RiverDog]

I don’t disagree in terms of China’s threat to us socioeconomically. They have the #2 economy in the world and becoming #1 is a matter of time. By comparison Russia’s is far outside the top 10. When it comes to the military threat they are increasing rapidly. They recently deployed their second aircraft carrier. Their actions in the South China Sea are bellicose and threatening . And as I’ve said and also seen military commanders comment they are far ahead of us in hypersonic missile capability , a weapon that is almost indefensible by our ships .

Still though I look at the nuclear threat as the greatest danger . If Russia has no interest in ever using them why keep developing more and more offensive nuclear weapons ? And to say well they only took Crimea? Wow. They have a significant portion of Ukraine now too. They conduct war games simulating an invasion of Europe. In my opinion their economic situation makes them more unstable , unpredictable and dangerous than China although both are a danger.

Russia no longer espouses an interest in global domination like the former Soviet Union used to, nor do they the type of military capability that the Soviets had at the height of the Cold War. They are a regional concern to European interests and indirectly to those of our own, but there's no way they're going to be able to fund military operations outside of the region like they once did. China, on the other hand, and as you stated, is an economic monster, and the most populous country in the world with a military that rivals that of our own. They are several times the threat that the Russians are and could very easily push their interests outside of their region. China is by far the more credible foe.

[c_hawkbob]

Russia no longer espouses an interest in global domination like the former Soviet Union used to

Sure they don't. They watched their Soviet Union collapse under non military influences and have learned form it. Now they are simply going about their same old ambitions non militarily (at least large scale, they are still using military smaller scale in places like Ukraine and Syria).

[RiverDog]

Russia no longer espouses an interest in global domination like the former Soviet Union used to

Sure they don't. They watched their Soviet Union collapse under non military influences and have learned form it. Now they are simply going about their same old ambitions non militarily (at least large scale, they are still using military smaller scale in places like Ukraine and Syria).

They do not have the "same old ambitions", and you said as much by agreeing with my statement. They no longer advocate world conquest and no longer peddle their influence in far away places like Cuba and Nicaragua, which makes them primarily a regional threat vs. a global one. The difference is in the scale of those ambitions.

I am not attempting to trivialize Russia's activities and I agree with you and Hawktalk that Trump is trading our national interests for his own personal, political gain and ought to be tossed out with yesterday's garbage because of it. My argument is that the military/economic threats are not on the same plane as those posed by China.

[c_hawkbob]

I was not, and do not, agree with your statement. I just believe they are going about trying to accomplish their goals by destabilizing our way of life, and using the internet to do so.

[Hawktawk]

So I’m the only guy who thinks there’s any danger of a nuclear confrontation ? I hope your all right and I’m wrong but it just seems nobody even thinks about the unthinkable .

[c_hawkbob]

It'd take a psycho at the controls to pull the nuclear trigger ... on that front North Korea is a greater threat IMO. Which is why Trump's "photo op" strategy (phony negotiations that get us to back off operations in the region in exchange for completely non binding promises in front of cameras with Kim and Trump pretending to have made actual progress) with NK is so dangerous.

[RiverDog]

So I’m the only guy who thinks there’s any danger of a nuclear confrontation ? I hope your all right and I’m wrong but it just seems nobody even thinks about the unthinkable .

Of course, there's always a danger of a nuclear confrontation, has been for 70 years and most likely will remain for the rest of our lives. But let's not allow ourselves to be possessed by the same paranoia that manifested itself in a huge arms race and irrational red scare back in the '50's and '60's that led to so many horrible decisions and unconscionable behavior that we're still paying for today.

[RiverDog]

I was not, and do not, agree with your statement. I just believe they are going about trying to accomplish their goals by destabilizing our way of life, and using the internet to do so.

So what was it that you were agreeing with when you responded to my statement that Russia no longer espouses an interest in global domination like the former Soviet Union used to by saying "Sure, they don't."? With all due respect, the way I'm interpreting your remarks you seem to be contradicting yourself.

[c_hawkbob]

Even if you don't initially read "sure they don't" as sarcastic my follow up should have made it obvious.

[RiverDog]

Even if you don't initially read "sure they don't" as sarcastic my follow up should have made it obvious.

Alright, fair enough. But past experience has taught me that it's not wise to make assumptions of a writer's intent when all there is to rely on is text, so I took your comments literally. A brief word or two regarding what you thought their goals were would have cleared that up.

[c_hawkbob]

There was actually a brief sentence or two that should have cleared that up.

[Hawktawk]

https://apnews.com/597e7f2b20b21af959e4c6983b255c37

I hate being doomsday debbie but why? Why does a nation with limited resources keep building purely offensive nuclear weapons that far outstrip US nuclear technology and delivery systems? Leverage? deterrence? as if 7K nukes they already have aren't enough? Why bomb shelters under major metropolitan areas such as moscow capable of holding 12 million people? What was up with the disaster preparedness drill a couple of year ago involving over 40 million russian citizens. America doesn't do this stuff, they dont have this stuff.

As i've said russia is not our buddy. It greatly concerns me they hand picked our president. I dont want them hacking him into another 4 years while they build nuclear weapons.