Trump Impeachment Predictions

[Hawktawk]

What I worry about is our allies losing faith in us. If one administration is going to completely disregard promises and treaties and traditional arrangements from previous administrations how can they trust anything beyond the next election?

Exactly bob . If our allies see that our populace can go sh1+house crazy enough to put up with a crazy lunatic with a popcorn fart foreign policy why ever put their eggs in our basket again.

[RiverDog]

What I worry about is our allies losing faith in us. If one administration is going to completely disregard promises and treaties and traditional arrangements from previous administrations how can they trust anything beyond the next election?

I understand you guy's concerns and I don't mean to sound arrogant or nationalistic, but we're the 500 lb gorilla. Our allies need to worry about us losing faith in them, not the other way around.

[Aseahawkfan]

Now they're concerned about this trash. That is rich. You ever talk to the Kurds? We abandoned them back in the first Gulf War with Bush Sr. They had no problem coming back for help again in the Iraq War or in Syria. Gee, maybe because they're looking for money and power from us?

Give me a damn break. We have no good allies other than Great Britain. That is it. All the other "allies" are not trustworthy. Saudi Arabia teaches the form of Islam that drove 9/11 with the 15 Saudis on the planes and Osama the Saudi as their leader. Then there was Osama hiding in the middle of Pakistan, our ally.

I love these leftist hypocrites crying about our allies when most of the evidence shows they are not loyal to us and not good allies at all.

Get real. You want to know who has our back, Great Britain and Canada. That is it. If America gets screwed over, we will get help from almost no one. Maybe Japan, but likely only Britain and Canada. Everyone else gets more from us than we'll ever get from them.

Only reason some of you hypocrite leftists are questioning our "allies" is so you can question Trump some more parroting the talking heads attacking Trump for everything he does because you don't take the time to even know what those allies are even doing besides what the news spoonfeeds you for talking points.

[Aseahawkfan]

I understand you guy's concerns and I don't mean to sound arrogant or nationalistic, but we're the 500 lb gorilla. Our allies need to worry about us losing faith in them, not the other way around.

You seriously understand their concerns/ What about recent foreign policy leads you to understand their concerns? Tell me about all these "allies" that turn down our money that help us so much? Tell me about these great Middle Eastern allies we're screwing over? I want to hear all they've done for us from a historical perspective that did not benefit themselves.

School me folks on our "allies" that might turn their back on us that have been so loyal. I'd love to hear it because the history I've read has been far, far different when it comes to Middle Eastern allies.

Do you know where we made the Kurds our solid allies? Iraq War. The one the guys crying on this forum about losing didn't even want to go to war for in the first place. And why did they support us? Because we took down Sadddam, something they couldn't even do alone. They wanted to abandon them in the first place during Iraq and now they worried about abandoning allies now/ You see the general ignorance and lack of awareness by these Trump hating leftists? It's ridiculous and hypocritical. they don't even know who the Kurds are for the most part or when we allied with them, but crying about leaving them in Syria even though they been getting screwed for decades by America in that region and still step up quick whenever we flash that cash.

[RiverDog]

Get real. You want to know who has our back, Great Britain and Canada. That is it. If America gets screwed over, we will get help from almost no one. Maybe Japan, but likely only Britain and Canada. Everyone else gets more from us than we'll ever get from them.

You can toss in a few more countries other than those you mentioned, countries like Australia, South Korea, the Netherlands, etc although they're not economic or military powers that would come running to our aid should we need it.

But as I stated above, I do think that some folks are overestimating the value of our relationship with our allies. So long as he doesn't start a war, Trump's not going to do anything that can't be righted once we get that POS out of office.

[Hawktawk]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/4th-def ... d=66319648

Now its up to 4 gangsters tied to Rudy and the Republican congressional campaign funding scandal, the Ukraine quagmire. Check out the pictures and quotes about all these congressmen that never met these guys

In other news Giuliani, Pompeo, Mike Pence, and defense secretary Mark Esper have said their offices will not comply with subpoenas for documents related to their interactions with Ukraine/withholding of nearly half a billion in lethal aid to Ukraine. Asked yesterday about his comments during the Clinton impeachment 20 years ago stating that defying house subpoenas was an impeachable offense Lindsey Graham was forced to say ruefully "nothing's changed". Pompeo's chief advisor
who abruptly resigned in protest last week is on the hill right now defying WH orders not to testify. This is gonna be so ugly when these hearings become public pretty soon.

[Hawktawk]

You can toss in a few more countries other than those you mentioned, countries like Australia, South Korea, the Netherlands, etc although they're not economic or military powers that would come running to our aid should we need it.

But as I stated above, I do think that some folks are overestimating the value of our relationship with our allies. So long as he doesn't start a war, Trump's not going to do anything that can't be righted once we get that POS out of office.

I hope your right RD but I fail to see how ceding power to Turkey, Russia, Syria,Iran and Isis with one phone call and tweet is just gonna be "fixed". It's not gonna just reverse itself no matter who is in the office Jan 20 2021 .He kind of has started a war though hasn't he in this situation?

President Erogodon initially refused to meet the US delegation including the Sec of State and the friggin VP Pence who are flying in to try to stop the carnage. He initially said "when the president is here I will be talking".He's got a point. Why does this POTUS sit on his fat A$$ and let Pence do the heavy lifting which happens constantly.Erogodon eventually relented and agreed to meet them but said he has no intention of a cease fire until his objectives are met. He also said of DT" reading his Twitter feed its hard to know what side to be on. I can't keep up with it".

That's what happens when a morally bankrupt and mentally ill man is the supposed leader of the free world. What a weak coward of a POTUS we have.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... tion-small
This as his delegation including the VP is headed over there to try to avert a humaitarian catastrophe and possibly a military conflict that could spiral out of control and already sort of has. These comments are right up with those from a bit ago.

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/sta ... 01?lang=en

I have been ragged on mercilessly for my opinion this man is not mentally well. Can anyone truly debate the point anymore? If these statements are in the public lexicon imagine what this maniac says off the record. Those in his administration who pressed to have him removed under the 25th amendment early on in his administration had it right... Its malpractice to all of us that he isn't locked up in the brig in a rubber room by now instead of packing around the nuclear football.

[Hawktawk]

https://news.gallup.com/poll/267491/con ... trump.aspx

Uh oh...now Gallup, not some poll commissioned by one or another news network.Trump is 7 points underwater on removal from office.

Interesting that Congress approval is also sharply up. Still very low but higher than I remember in years. The public is increasingly seeing this as anything but "another witch hunt".

[RiverDog]

Why does this POTUS sit on his fat A$$ and let Pence do the heavy lifting which happens constantly.

If Trump is such an idiot as we've all said he is, we should be relieved that he's letting Pence do the heavy lifting.

One of my biggest complaints about Trump is that he seems to do all of his negotiating by the seat of his pants, ignoring his advisors and aides and just going with his gut feel or instinct. I see no problem with him delegating tasks to Pence. Personally I trust Pence to make the right calls more than I do Trump. Don't you?

[Hawktawk]

If Trump is such an idiot as we've all said he is, we should be relieved that he's letting Pence do the heavy lifting.

One of my biggest complaints about Trump is that he seems to do all of his negotiating by the seat of his pants, ignoring his advisors and aides and just going with his gut feel or instinct. I see no problem with him delegating tasks to Pence. Personally I trust Pence to make the right calls more than I do Trump. Don't you?

I completely agree as well as Lindsay Graham who said everything you said and called this "the biggest mistake he's made in his presidency" The worst thing I've seen since I was in the congress".

That's why my slogan is PENCE 2019!!!! It was telling when Trump sent him to a summit after his PR disaster for not visiting a cemetery in France due to rain then skipping a trip to Arlington on memorial day threw him into a tantrum. Pence was seated across from Putin and locked onto him with an icy stare for 30 seconds. Hes measured, dignified, competent.And as he and Pompeo head to Turkey on a fool's errand Trump is undercutting their mission by saying its not our problem, the Kurds are safer, they are no angels and are worse than ISIS in many ways etc. Erogodons talking points. Its astounding the lack of moral or mental clarity the man has and It will always amaze me the way his party stands by him.

The party should have dumped Trump after the pussy grabber tape and elevated Pence. He'd have won bigger than Trump and we would have governance and a competent commander in chief who knows who our friends and enemies are. And as I've said and also begun hearing from some republican talking heads the only way to hold the white house is dump him now, give Pence a year to prove himself and run him with Nikki Haley as VP against Sleepy Joe or Elizabeth Warren which is looking increasingly likely. Their talking points of "were not Trump, hes not sane" the referendum on a man would be gone. Anybody but Trump would now be Warren or Pence, soft socialist vs principled conservative who looks and acts the part. The senate may well walk the plank and leave him in office but when his Impeach and remove # is 52% a few weeks into the inquiry and Nixon's was 58% just before he resigned after years of investigation its not gonna get better. Their only hope of reelection might be to follow the will of the people including a solid majority of independents any party will need to win.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/17/would-t ... tions.html
Heres wall street's take...

Do it republicans. Hold hands and jump together. Be on the right side of history. Save america from this menace.I think simple math shows you may actually be rewarded by the voters.

[Hawktawk]

Mick Mulvaney just announced next years G7 would be held at Doral. In the midst of multiple valid investigations including violating the emoluments clause here comes maybe the biggest middle finger yet. I’d say it’s unbelievable but nothing is beyond this grifting bottom feeder .

[Hawktawk]

Too funny and oh so true. And this from a total pro who is known for not commenting on presidents while they are in office.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_sG7N7pJ6g

[c_hawkbob]

What I worry about is our allies losing faith in us. If one administration is going to completely disregard promises and treaties and traditional arrangements from previous administrations how can they trust anything beyond the next election?

I understand you guy's concerns and I don't mean to sound arrogant or nationalistic, but we're the 500 lb gorilla. Our allies need to worry about us losing faith in them, not the other way around.

Besides the legit concern about our allies losing faith in us, retired four-star Admiral William McRaven (who led U.S. Special Operations Command under Bush and Obama) also raises the concern of us losing faith in ourselves:

“If our promises are meaningless, how will our allies ever trust us?” McRaven wrote in a scathing New York Times op-ed published Thursday. “If we can’t have faith in our nation’s principles, why would the men and women of this nation join the military? And if they don’t join, who will protect us? If we are not the champions of the good and the right, then who will follow us? And if no one follows us — where will the world end up?”

[RiverDog]

Besides the legit concern about our allies losing faith in us, retired four-star Admiral William McRaven (who led U.S. Special Operations Command under Bush and Obama) also raises the concern of us losing faith in ourselves:

We can all find opinions from notable individuals to support that of our own. You know the saying: Opinions are like a-holes, everybody has one.

As far as losing faith in ourselves, I've already lost a ton of faith in our country when I think of all the people that voted for that POS. I vastly underestimated the intelligence of our collective populace as well as things like racism that I thought were for the most part in our rear view mirror.

[c_hawkbob]

We can all find opinions from notable individuals to support that of our own.

Well you don't have any problem sharing your opinion, I think I'll go ahead and post mine every once in a while as well, and if afterword read of a significant figure echoing the sentiment, share that too thank you.

[RiverDog]

Well you don't have any problem sharing your opinion, I think I'll go ahead and post mine every once in a while as well, and if afterword read of a significant figure echoing the sentiment, share that too thank you.

As far as your posting a supporting sentiment, you don't need one on my behalf. It's not going to validate it or make it more credible than it is stand alone as I already have a healthy respect for it. I was simply noting that it's not difficult to find people that agree with us.

But share away! It's always interesting seeing the thoughts of others, especially yours.

[Hawktawk]

We can all find opinions from notable individuals to support that of our own. You know the saying: Opinions are like a-holes, everybody has one.

As far as losing faith in ourselves, I've already lost a ton of faith in our country when I think of all the people that voted for that POS. I vastly underestimated the intelligence of our collective populace as well as things like racism that I thought were for the most part in our rear view mirror.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Hear hear. This. As a lifelong conservative fighting for my party it's disgusting to know how many of my friends and family are following this man off the cliff.

I get supporting him in 2016. It was Hillary although I correctly sensed what it would look like and voted libertarian knowing I didn't want my name on him.. But now? there is no rational justification for supporting anything but Impeachment and jail, especially with Mike Pence in the wings. Its a fever, a disorder. A cult.

[RiverDog]

I see where Trump has walked back from his plan to hold the G7 meeting at his golf resort, and as usual, he's portraying himself as a victim of the evil MSM and the Democrats even though what he was proposing was clearly a violation of law. But it's still red meat for his base as they'll lap it up like a hungry kitten laps up a saucer of milk.

The truth of the matter is that it showed just how little the POTUS knows about and/or respects the law and what the term "conflict of interest" means if he thought he could intermingle his business with ANY elective office or even within most Fortune 500 companies. A city councilman would be in deep chit if they tried to do what he was, and ss a businessman, Trump should know all about potential conflicts of interests. Heck, my former employer has fired managers for a violation of their code of conduct for doing what Trump was proposing, ie financially benefiting above and beyond compensation paid to him from his position within the 'company.' It's not an acceptable practice in government or in publicly held corporations.

It's just another example of how Trump is a spoiled rich kid used to getting his own way if he can't see what was wrong with his idea.

[Hawktawk]

I see where Trump has walked back from his plan to hold the G7 meeting at his golf resort, and as usual, he's portraying himself as a victim of the evil MSM and the Democrats even though what he was proposing was clearly a violation of law. But it's still red meat for his base as they'll lap it up like a hungry kitten laps up a saucer of milk.

The truth of the matter is that it showed just how little the POTUS knows about and/or respects the law and what the term "conflict of interest" means if he thought he could intermingle his business with ANY elective office or even within most Fortune 500 companies. A city councilman would be in deep chit if they tried to do what he was, and ss a businessman, Trump should know all about potential conflicts of interests. Heck, my former employer has fired managers for a violation of their code of conduct for doing what Trump was proposing, ie financially benefiting above and beyond compensation paid to him from his position within the 'company.' It's not an acceptable practice in government or in publicly held corporations.

It's just another example of how Trump is a spoiled rich kid used to getting his own way if he can't see what was wrong with his idea.

Multiple outlets are reporting that Republicans in the house and the senate called the white house and informed Mulvaney that they have had enough of defending the indefensible. With many having serious reservations about how to handle Ukraine they felt like a clear violation of the emoluments clause and likely future impeachment charge was the last straw. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

Speaking of Mulvaney his unhinged press conference might have moved the impeachment needle even further.After announcing the Pres had chosen Doral out of multiple sites he couldn't name one of Mulvaney admitted a quid pro quo in Ukraine on 3 separate questions and said further" politics is going to affect foreign policy. We do this all the time. Get over it".

As you've said the base will lap this up, the campaign is printing T shirts that say "get over it" and selling them for 30$ but the base is shrinking little by little and even Lindsey Graham said yesterday if a quid pro quo can be established he would find it very troubling. McConnell has told colleagues in the Senate to prepare for a trial as early as December to last 8 weeks.That's a full trial which indicates McConnell isn't going to simply try to snuff it out.

8 weeks of Trump dirt and already over 50% of Americans in virtually every poll support this. I saw a guy , a republican operative say yesterday he believes its at least 20% possible RIGHT NOW the dude is removed from office and again it's early.
One can hope this blight can be removed.

[RiverDog]

The G-7 debacle was a huge mistake. Had he gone through with it, that might have been the straw that broke the camel's back as far as impeachment goes. I have a hard time imagining how anyone, let alone someone with as much business experience as Trump has, couldn't figure out why it's against the law for him to be mixing his elective office with his private business.

I'd love to hear from someone...Idahawkman, burrton, anyone..tell me how this is not a blatant example of a man that has gotten his way all of his life and never had to abide by the same ground rules that the rest of us have. He shows every attribute of a spoiled rich kid.

The R pols will be watching the polls. If it starts to tip...and my guess is that the breaking point will be in the neighborhood of 60% removal from office, in other words, a clear majority of the electorate supporting throwing him out...that the dam could break pretty rapidly.

I'm hearing that there's more and more R's that are retiring rather than having to defend Trump and go up against his base, the latest being Francis Rooney. That, too, has to be in the minds of some of the R's, that their party is going to self destruct if they don't do something to get Trump out of the way.

I still think that the odds are against removal from office, but Trump has been doing nothing to help his cause, including his Syria pullout. Despite whether or not it was the right move, it was an unpopular one amongst Republicans when you have guys like Mitch McConnell coming out so strongly against it. These latest events over the past couple of weeks has to have a cumulative effect on some of these lawmakers.

[RiverDog]

Here's the most recent poll regarding impeachment. Not a lot of movement from other polls taken during the month with roughly 50% supporting impeachment and removal from office. But there are a few indications that the needle might move. Here's the summary:

Here are a few other takeaways from the poll:

Our poll is not an outlier and is fairly close to the average spread in October of 48% who want to impeach and remove Trump from office and 44% who don’t.

Mike Pence’s net favorability rating (-7 points) is 7 points higher than Trump’s (-14 points).

More Americans want to impeach and remove Trump from office now than Americans did at this point of the impeachment sagas of Bill Clinton and Richard Nixon (the key words being "at this point").

The percentage of Americans who feel strongly about Trump not being impeached and removed has dropped from 45% in the spring of this year to 37% now, which suggests Trump has room to lose more ground going forward.

Rudy Giuliani’s favorable rating is lower than ever, while Nancy Pelosi’s is the highest in over a decade.

And here's a pretty good summation that reflects my sentiments regarding impeachment/removal from office:

Indeed, there’s been little movement in Pelosi's, Pence's and Trump’s popularity ratings since the inquiry began. The effect of impeachment is baked in the cake for now. Whether that continues may be the ultimate sign of how impeachment is playing out.

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/ ... index.html

[I-5]

Sure, G7 is a mistake, but it's nothing new. It's his daily M.O. Pence stayed at a Trump property in Ireland that was 110 miles away from where his meeting would be. That's the distance from Seattle to Vancouver BC. It's just Trump being Trump.

Sometimes I think the biggest barrier to removing this joker is the 24-hour news cycle with the need for more and more headlines, so many headlines that it almost 'normalizes' everything that he does.

PS: the whole 'lynching' comment that came out today, however bad it is, and all the outrage stories that are going to run this week is just an example of both Trump and news media feeding on each other. He knows what he's doing, and he's just baiting the news media to distract from everything else going on in the hopes that it will drown out the impeachment stories. It won't, but it helps him anyway.

[RiverDog]

Sure, G7 is a mistake, but it's nothing new. It's his daily M.O. Pence stayed at a Trump property in Ireland that was 110 miles away from where his meeting would be. That's the distance from Seattle to Vancouver BC. It's just Trump being Trump.

Sometimes I think the biggest barrier to removing this joker is the 24-hour news cycle with the need for more and more headlines, so many headlines that it almost 'normalizes' everything that he does.

PS: the whole 'lynching' comment that came out today, however bad it is, and all the outrage stories that are going to run this week is just an example of both Trump and news media feeding on each other. He knows what he's doing, and he's just baiting the news media to distract from everything else going on in the hopes that it will drown out the impeachment stories. It won't, but it helps him anyway.

I agree with you, except for the inclusion of the G7 debacle. That one caused a huge push back from members of his own party. That wasn't the case in nearly all of the other outrageous things he's said or done.

But I agree with the rest of what you're saying. Trump makes so many blatantly false statements that it's no longer news. If Obama or Bush 43 made one boo-boo or gaff, they would have been all over them. One instance in particular was when Bush 43 held up a fake turkey and said "doesn't this look yummy" and the liberals used it as evidence that Bush lies. Just think of that statement/act in contrast to some of the stuff Trump has said or done, like his Alabama hurricane. Trump can make a completely false claim, such as his most recent claim that he's the only POTUS that has given away his salary, and the press doesn't raise so much as an eyebrow. That would have been headline news for any other POTUS, regardless of party.

[Hawktawk]

Far and away the biggest blow back has been on Syria. Moscow Mitch wrote an Op Ed for the Washington Post criticizing it. The ever more sleazy and despicable Lindsey Graham went from "worst thing Ive ever seen in my time in congress" to "biggest mistake of his presidency" to literally "He's thinking out of the box" completely turning a 180 on Syria . But by and large the bipartisan criticism of Syria has been the loudest.

I only have to say about the Lynching thing that I caught a lot of crap for my utter condemnation of the crazy orange witch, my "over the top" characterizations of him.I was absolutely right in the way my skin bristled within a week of him announcing his candidacy.I sensed what he was. He's the most despicable human being ever to infest the oval office.

In the infamous words of the late Denny Green "he is who I thought he was" and america might let him off the hook".

In other news acting ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor testified today that there was an absolute quid pro quo involving military aid to Ukraine where THE PRESIDENT had demanded that the Ukrainian administration had to make a PUBLIC PROCLAMATION that they were opening an investigation into the Bidens before the aid would be forthcoming.

Taylor is the one who sent the now famous text to EU ambassador Gordon Sondland"it is crazy to hold up military aid to help a political campaign".
This guy is a 50 year public servant first of the military and any number of branches of the government, Involved in the state department beginning with the GW Bush administration. He came out of retirement to take the job in Ukraine.

His testimony is described by those who heard it as devastating , disturbing.

It will be interesting to see how well these Repub Senators hold up when this guy is speaking directly to the american people instead of in a closed door session.

[Aseahawkfan]

So our options next election are a Narcissistic Idiot, a group of socialist Democrats, or a knee deep in the muck Democrat Joe Biden. Sheesh. This is terrible. I see no good vision for this nation. All I see are ivory tower academics and politicians pandering to their base to create an awful, overly politically correct nation of weaklings or a narcissistic reality TV star that thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.

[RiverDog]

In other news acting ambassador to Ukraine Bill Taylor testified today that there was an absolute quid pro quo involving military aid to Ukraine where THE PRESIDENT had demanded that the Ukrainian administration had to make a PUBLIC PROCLAMATION that they were opening an investigation into the Bidens before the aid would be forthcoming.

Taylor is the one who sent the now famous text to EU ambassador Gordon Sondland"it is crazy to hold up military aid to help a political campaign". This guy is a 50 year public servant first of the military and any number of branches of the government, Involved in the state department beginning with the GW Bush administration. He came out of retirement to take the job in Ukraine.

His testimony is described by those who heard it as devastating , disturbing.

It will be interesting to see how well these Repub Senators hold up when this guy is speaking directly to the american people instead of in a closed door session.

If impeachment is to get any traction, all this stuff needs to start moving the needle of public opinion. A 50/50 split isn't going to cut it with 20 Republican Senators as it doesn't touch Trump's base. You're talking about selfish career politicians that care more about getting re-elected than they do acting in the best interests of their country.

I think that I-5 has it right. There's an information overload and it's causing the public to grow callous. As CNN put it, the public opinion numbers are "baked in the cake".

The other problem is time. The Dems want to have a House vote by Thanksgiving and a Senate trial before the end of the year so as not to interfere with the 2020 campaign, but it's not working out that way. Each time they interview a witness, they give them leads that has to be checked out, both for them to get more evidence as well as in the interest of fairness. There are a handful of agencies, like State, OMB, the Pentagon, even the Energy Department that they're going to have to interview. They have big names like John Bolton and Rudy they want to talk to, they are going to have to hold public hearings, write reports, etc. All that stuff takes time, and if they try to rush it, they'll open themselves up to legitimate criticism that they're trying to railroad Trump.

[I-5]

So our options next election are a Narcissistic Idiot, a group of socialist Democrats, or a knee deep in the muck Democrat Joe Biden. Sheesh. This is terrible. I see no good vision for this nation. All I see are ivory tower academics and politicians pandering to their base to create an awful, overly politically correct nation of weaklings or a narcissistic reality TV star that thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.

For once, I almost agree with ASF. Although I wouldn't lump all the dems into the socialist bucket. Klobuchar is far from it IMO. I don't like Biden at all. Just from his manner, I think Buttigieg is the most rational and mature one which is ironic since he's also the youngest. And I like that he's neither a hawk nor a pacifist. Gabbard is a wild card, but apart from the boost Hillary just gave her, I don't know what chances she really has.

[RiverDog]

So our options next election are a Narcissistic Idiot, a group of socialist Democrats, or a knee deep in the muck Democrat Joe Biden. Sheesh. This is terrible. I see no good vision for this nation. All I see are ivory tower academics and politicians pandering to their base to create an awful, overly politically correct nation of weaklings or a narcissistic reality TV star that thinks he can do whatever he wants and get away with it.

For once, I almost agree with ASF. Although I wouldn't lump all the dems into the socialist bucket. Klobuchar is far from it IMO. I don't like Biden at all. Just from his manner, I think Buttigieg is the most rational and mature one which is ironic since he's also the youngest. And I like that he's neither a hawk nor a pacifist. Gabbard is a wild card, but apart from the boost Hillary just gave her, I don't know what chances she really has.

I like Klobuchar, too, at least in contrast with the rest of that sorry arse field. But what is she polling? Has she hit double digits yet? I also like Mayor Pete, but he's not electable. The nation isn't ready for a gay POTUS. Maybe in another 10 years. He also needs to show that he can appeal to a wider audience vs. getting rubber stamped by a typical American big city. It's a little more difficult for a liberal to win a state wide race. Just ask Beto O'Rourke.

So our choices on the Dem side, for now, is Creepy Joe, the Mad Scientist, and Pocahontas. That sucks.

[Aseahawkfan]

If it wasn't for Pete's embrace of the Climate Change as an Emergency and his affirmative action reform of the justice system, I would be ok. I can't help but picture Mayor Pete doing like we do in Seattle meaning overlook crime if you're of African or Latin ancestry and throw the book at you if European and Asian because you're doing well economically. It's a total racist and BS way to build a nation. I know for a fact African and Latin folk aren't asking for special treatment, they just don't want to be dealing with extra BS. That's a whole different matter than the way Seattle is handling crap and I picture Mayor Pete employing Seattle-like racial polices that are atrocious and pretty much affirmative action for crime by just overlooking it or dismissing it if you're poor and minority like that helps improve anything. The illusion of a better nation by manipulating numbers is not a better nation.

And the Climate Change Armageddon crap is super tiresome. But the left is so spun up on Climate Change is Armageddon, I can't back them. How about you listen to some of the older folks in the world that have listened to this pseudo-science Armageddon theory for ages and it has never come true. Not once any of them from the starvation theory, oil depletion theory, Y2K, nuclear war theory, and the environmental Armageddon dating back to the 60s. I was watching this trash getting worried all my life until it became clear the scientists are about as right as the religious folk. They take a theory and spin it up to crazy land creating all these movements that make headaches for everyone.

They can't just take a reasonable stance. The climate is changing. We are warming and shifting. We need to study it more and adjust as needed as we have done for the entirety of humanity. We have no real idea if reducing carbon emissions will stop or slow climate change. The main problem we can't fix which is too many human beings on the planet. So we're going to have to make the best of it and do what we can since murdering a bunch of humans is not something we plan to do. But no, they can't take the sensible approach. They have to create an Armageddon theory spinning people up on something that is a naturally occurring event. Real carbon emission reduction would require eliminating large numbers of human beings. I doubt anyone wants that to happen in a forced way. If we continue down the path the left is on, that will likely be one of the answers they eventually reach. That group of loons is off the rails.

[I-5]

You can call Warren a socialist if that suits you, but calling her a pejorative term puts you on the same level as 45, and you’re far above that, Riv.

[RiverDog]

You can call Warren a socialist if that suits you, but calling her a pejorative term puts you on the same level as 45, and you’re far above that, Riv.

Although I think you're right to some degree, I don't feel too ashamed in using such a derogatory term in Warren's case because she asked for it. But in no way does its use put anyone on the same level as Trump. It's certainly not racist or xenophobic...no different than calling her Senorita if she were claiming Hispanic roots or Hilda if she were claiming German ancestry...and far different than some of the stuff that comes out of DJT's mouth/Twitter feed. It's more like something you'd hear from Carson or Letterman.

[Hawktawk]

Sanders has called warren a "capitalist to her bones". She's not a socialist, she's a capitalist but a liberal democrat who became that after starting her political career as a republican. Her medicare for all proposal has the support of a surprising number of americans and IMO is a primary stance that will suddenly morph to the center if she is nominated.

Frankly as a lifelong conservative who has never been taken care of by any employer in my life yet been a supply side true believer all along at this point I'm all for her taxing the very wealthiest people on the planet, the top 1% of which have as much money as the bottom 90%.This tax cut for businesses has been channeled into stock buybacks for the most part or hoarding cash. Yeah they should pay more. We were 7 years into an expansion when they were handed this massive permanent giveaway and they will still have it when the next recession hits, there just won't be any hay in the barn(there already isn't)

That said I'm all for a Biden presidency if he's the nominee. It's not a close call. His "deep in the muck" is Jesus Christ walking on water compared to the overflowing swamp oozing across the entire planet from this treasonous criminal enterprise. That or a strong third party candidate which I've heard of none.My great hope which I know is highly unlikely would be enough republicans coupled with savvy dissafected Demps would be to promote Bill Weld but the party is moving rapidly at the statewide level to cancel primaries. It should p1$$ off everyone but the zombie army is so delusional they dont care if their rights are being taken away as long as they can go to their rallies and listen to the orange baboon.

Ultimately Id accept anyone the dems are running. If Pete Buttigeig had a wife named Karen instead of a husband named Chastain he'd be the next president of the united states. Dont misunderstand what I mean, I'm not the least bit homophobic at this point in my evolution as a decent human being and would gladly make the trade, I just dont think voters in the swing states would. Hes already outperformed my expectations greatly though..Smart well spoken guy.

But hey ABT!!!!Pence 2019!!!!!

[RiverDog]

Frankly as a lifelong conservative who has never been taken care of by any employer in my life yet been a supply side true believer all along at this point I'm all for her taxing the very wealthiest people on the planet, the top 1% of which have as much money as the bottom 90%.This tax cut for businesses has been channeled into stock buybacks for the most part or hoarding cash. Yeah they should pay more. We were 7 years into an expansion when they were handed this massive permanent giveaway and they will still have it when the next recession hits, there just won't be any hay in the barn(there already isn't)

The problem with Warren and Sanders proposals to finance their programs is that they're counting on being able to implement a wealth tax, which in all likelihood would be ruled unconstitutional, and even if it wasn't, it would be an administrative nightmare trying to define what's wealth and what's not. Plus any new tax is bound to expand into the middle class once these programs of theirs end up costing way more than they projected, which is always the case with any government endeavor.

If Pete Buttigeig had a wife named Karen instead of a husband named Chastain he'd be the next president of the united states. Dont misunderstand what I mean, I'm not the least bit homophobic at this point in my evolution as a decent human being and would gladly make the trade, I just dont think voters in the swing states would. Hes already outperformed my expectations greatly though..Smart well spoken guy.

Agreed, but as I mentioned above, being elected mayor of a big city does not give him a broad enough resume. It's not diverse enough. That's one of the problems with "the squad", as they all come from very liberal districts that don't have to pay heed to even mildly conservative voters. It's one of the reasons why I support retaining the electoral college as it forces candidates to campaign nation wide vs. a handful of big cities. It's a learning experience for them.

[Aseahawkfan]

You can call Warren a socialist if that suits you, but calling her a pejorative term puts you on the same level as 45, and you’re far above that, Riv.

And your support of lying BS by the left puts you on the same level as 45 if you want to go there. Comparing Trump to Hitler a while back puts on the same level as 45. Complete bombastic BS meant to antagonize, exaggerate, and outright lie.

So I would hold back comparing anyone to 45 unless you want to look in the mirror.

[Aseahawkfan]

Warren supports excessive taxation on wealth and socialized medicine that may well bankrupt this nation. Maybe she moves moderate if she wins the nomination, who knows. Right now most of the Democrat candidates are appeasing leftist socialists not particularly interested in sensible government. Once they get into office the reality will obviously be different since both Democrats and Republicans can't just do anything they want. I have more trust in the party model to keep people like Sanders and Warren in line than their individual values and political philosophies go. Sanders can win the presidency and still not get almost anything he wants done.

This Green New Deal is trash that these people keep trying to push. I have listened to this Armageddon crap from religious leaders and scientists since I've been young. They haven't been right even once. I'm tired of trying to adjust policy based on Armageddon theories having to do with the environment. I can't wait for these young enthusiastic environmentalist to get to my age and go, "Wait a minute. The end of the world didn't happen. In fact, we're absolutely fine. We didn't even change that much." I'm sure the media and politicians will spin up another young generation on some Armageddon science movement once this one runs out of steam.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sanders has called warren a "capitalist to her bones". She's not a socialist, she's a capitalist but a liberal democrat who became that after starting her political career as a republican. Her medicare for all proposal has the support of a surprising number of americans and IMO is a primary stance that will suddenly morph to the center if she is nominated.

Frankly as a lifelong conservative who has never been taken care of by any employer in my life yet been a supply side true believer all along at this point I'm all for her taxing the very wealthiest people on the planet, the top 1% of which have as much money as the bottom 90%.This tax cut for businesses has been channeled into stock buybacks for the most part or hoarding cash. Yeah they should pay more. We were 7 years into an expansion when they were handed this massive permanent giveaway and they will still have it when the next recession hits, there just won't be any hay in the barn(there already isn't)

That said I'm all for a Biden presidency if he's the nominee. It's not a close call. His "deep in the muck" is Jesus Christ walking on water compared to the overflowing swamp oozing across the entire planet from this treasonous criminal enterprise. That or a strong third party candidate which I've heard of none.My great hope which I know is highly unlikely would be enough republicans coupled with savvy dissafected Demps would be to promote Bill Weld but the party is moving rapidly at the statewide level to cancel primaries. It should p1$$ off everyone but the zombie army is so delusional they dont care if their rights are being taken away as long as they can go to their rallies and listen to the orange baboon.

Ultimately Id accept anyone the dems are running. If Pete Buttigeig had a wife named Karen instead of a husband named Chastain he'd be the next president of the united states. Dont misunderstand what I mean, I'm not the least bit homophobic at this point in my evolution as a decent human being and would gladly make the trade, I just dont think voters in the swing states would. Hes already outperformed my expectations greatly though..Smart well spoken guy.

But hey ABT!!!!Pence 2019!!!!!

You know how that tax the rich crap ends. It starts there and just keeps on trickling down to increases taxes on everyone and everything because the keep finding out that they can't pay for all the new toys they're trying to give away. You have been alive long enough to know how this works. Never been any other way with the tax and spend group.

The focus should be less on taxing the wealthy and more on what does it mean to be middle class and what should a middle class person have. This nebulous idea you can tax your way out of economic stagnation is a proven failure. The focus should be on lowering the amount of money a middle class worker has to dedicate to property and medical. Less of a focus on taxing and spending on social programs which tend to lead to increased socialism and disincentivizing productivity. You know how these tax and spend policies encourage lazy and unproductive behavior.

[RiverDog]

Back to the OP. Despite all the bad news that's been coming down on Trump regarding the Ukrainian scandal, opinion polls still haven't moved much. The latest RCP job approval poll shows Trump at 43.3%, up a few ticks from a couple weeks ago:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6179.html

The question of impeachment/removal from office is still stuck around 50%, the latest coming in at 48.5% yes. That's a slight increase from last week, but it's important to note that those not favoring kicking his butt out also increased:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6957.html

FYI I'm using the RCP poll because it's a composite of all the major polling organization and is adjusted daily.

[Aseahawkfan]

Back to the OP. Despite all the bad news that's been coming down on Trump regarding the Ukrainian scandal, opinion polls still haven't moved much. The latest RCP job approval poll shows Trump at 43.3%, up a few ticks from a couple weeks ago:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6179.html

The question of impeachment/removal from office is still stuck around 50%, the latest coming in at 48.5% yes. That's a slight increase from last week, but it's important to note that those not favoring kicking his butt out also increased:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... -6957.html

FYI I'm using the RCP poll because it's a composite of all the major polling organization and is adjusted daily.

What do polls have to do with impeachment? The Democrats are pushing regardless of what the American people think. They been pushing it since Trump won the presidency regardless of polls. Polls shouldn't matter a whole lot in impeachment. Either they got the evidence to remove him or they don't. If they have enough evidence to convince the Senate, then he'll be removed. If not, then he won't regardless of opinion polls.

[RiverDog]

What do polls have to do with impeachment? The Democrats are pushing regardless of what the American people think. They been pushing it since Trump won the presidency regardless of polls. Polls shouldn't matter a whole lot in impeachment. Either they got the evidence to remove him or they don't. If they have enough evidence to convince the Senate, then he'll be removed. If not, then he won't regardless of opinion polls.

The polls are everything. Republicans aren't going to vote to remove Trump from office unless enough of their constituents favor it, and without at least some Republicans, specifically 20 R Senators, Trump ain't going anywhere. Even Trump realizes it, which is why he's embarked on a huge advertising campaign even though we're a year away from the election.

Impeachment isn't a legal process, it's a political one. Evidence doesn't matter. If it did, then Clinton would have been doomed because there was irrefutable evidence that he had lied under oath. The kicker with Clinton was that the root cause of his perjury was sex and therefore judged by the members of his party not to be a "high crime." It's a very subjective process and unlike a legal trial, highly dependent on public opinion.

Heck, even most Republicans think what Trump did was wrong, and many if not most feel that he might have broken the law. But where they differ from the Democrats is whether or not the offense fits the "high crimes" language in the Constitution.

I'm keeping a close eye on the polls. Unless they start showing some movement, of which IMO to this point they have not, there won't be enough political cover for 20 R Senators to vote for conviction on an impeachment charge.