Trump in a tailspin

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't much stock in approval rating. Trump's approval rating was garbage and he barely lost to Joe Biden. This new presidential run hasn't even started yet, not even close. Other Republicans are preparing to show Trump isn't a viable candidate in the upcoming election. How much support he gets will depend on the behind the scenes money, not random polls. The ripping and tearing hasn't even started yet, but it will. Trump isn't Mr. Rich Cool Outsider any more, he's got too much baggage to win and more legal dealings that could put out more time bombs at the wrong time to lose the election. I'm very doubtful Republican power players want that kind of liability in what will be a highly contested presidential election with major issues coming to a head like the Ukraine War, Abortion, Immigration, Crime, and the like.

Trump's lost his edge and he's winning polls because no one else has seriously stepped up with the money to take him out. I know I'll be real surprised if he gets the same backing as he did in 2016 or even 2020. After the crap he pulled, I think he's a pariah to the people that matter in the Republican Party. He's going to get the Bernie Sanders treatment this time around same as when Hilary made sure Bernie wasn't going to take her spot. And the same reason Democratic power players talked Joe Biden into coming out of retirement because he was the only candidate they thought could take out Orange Loon.

Behind the scenes Trump's chances are being weight. I think that scale is showing he clearly cannot win and has way too many uninvestable liabilities to put forward as a viable candidate. A bunch of uninvolved random Republicans polling support for him a year before a real candidate is even chosen means next to nothing.

[RiverDog]

I don't much stock in approval rating. Trump's approval rating was garbage and he barely lost to Joe Biden. This new presidential run hasn't even started yet, not even close. Other Republicans are preparing to show Trump isn't a viable candidate in the upcoming election. How much support he gets will depend on the behind the scenes money, not random polls. The ripping and tearing hasn't even started yet, but it will. Trump isn't Mr. Rich Cool Outsider any more, he's got too much baggage to win and more legal dealings that could put out more time bombs at the wrong time to lose the election. I'm very doubtful Republican power players want that kind of liability in what will be a highly contested presidential election with major issues coming to a head like the Ukraine War, Abortion, Immigration, Crime, and the like.

Trump's lost his edge and he's winning polls because no one else has seriously stepped up with the money to take him out. I know I'll be real surprised if he gets the same backing as he did in 2016 or even 2020. After the crap he pulled, I think he's a pariah to the people that matter in the Republican Party. He's going to get the Bernie Sanders treatment this time around same as when Hilary made sure Bernie wasn't going to take her spot. And the same reason Democratic power players talked Joe Biden into coming out of retirement because he was the only candidate they thought could take out Orange Loon.

Behind the scenes Trump's chances are being weight. I think that scale is showing he clearly cannot win and has way too many uninvestable liabilities to put forward as a viable candidate. A bunch of uninvolved random Republicans polling support for him a year before a real candidate is even chosen means next to nothing.

I agree, that the party bosses and donors are trying to separate themselves from Trump, and if the nominee were picked in a smoked filled room like it used to be, I wouldn't be too concerned. But the nomination is determined mostly by delegates won in the primaries, and Trump is way ahead in the polls. And before you say it, yes, I realize that the polls haven't been the most accurate lately, but if they're in error, past history has shown us that they tend to underestimate Trump's strength. It happened in 2016 and in 2020. Lots of Trump voters won't answer them when they're asked or answer dishonestly. Closet support, I call it.

As far as job approval goes, while it's not a golden rule that can never be broken, it is an indicator for an incumbent POTUS. Since they started doing job approval surveys following WW2, all of the incumbent POTUS's that lost their re-election bid had sub 50% ratings. Gerald Ford's approval in the fall of 1976 was in the mid 40's, Jimmy Carter's in the fall of 1980 was in the 30's, Bush 41's job approval in November of 1992 was 43%, and Trump's in 2020 was 43%.

At the same time, POTUS's that were re-elected for a 2nd term all had 50% plus approval ratings going into their re-election: Ike in 1956, Nixon in 1972, Reagan in 1984, Clinton in 1996, Bush 43 in 2004, and Obama in 2012.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/116677/Pre ... rends.aspx

Joe Biden is an incredibly weak POTUS. A recent CNN survey found that a whopping 67%, 2 out of 3 Americans, don't think that Biden deserves a 2nd term. His latest job approval rating is 42%. Plus, gas prices are projected to rise again this summer, and voters directly link a POTUS with what they have to pay at the pump and the grocery store. Despite his hideously named "Inflation Reduction Act", it still sits at 6%, nearly twice the long term average. Whether or not he's directly to blame, it's undeniable that the economy has gotten worse since Biden took office. That almost always spells bad news for an incumbent POTUS.

I'm not making any forecasts or predictions. My point is that there is plenty of evidence out there to justify being extremely concerned that we might end up with another 4 years of Trump.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/peter-thiel-republican-megadonor-wont-fund-candidates-2024-sources-2023-04-26/#:~:text=SAN%20FRANCISCO%2C%20April%2026%20(Reuters,people%20close%20to%20the%20businessman.

This is part of what I've been talking about. Trump has lost the support of the big money. They did not like January 6th. It was bad for business. They don't like the election lies BS. Bad for business. They don't care about abortion or transgender issues or social issues either. They basically don't care very much about America other than keeping business in control and making sure their taxes are lower and their tax breaks are in place. They don't like Trump's rubbish that doesn't focus on business issues other than what he needs to do to get elected.

I'm betting there are far more money people behind the scenes that don't want Trump in office and won't pay for it if he doesn't handle power better than he has. They don't want business disrupted. No one makes money in a war torn nation.

[I-5]

Biden's approval numbers won't be the deciding factor in a general election. This is anything but a normal election, with the possibility of the oldest president ever going against the biggest grifter con ever. I would contend Biden's age is a bigger factor, even among dems. However, the prospect of another 4 years of chaos under Trump is enough to mobilize all who don't wish to see him back in office. Just like in 2020, it's less about Biden and more about not wanting Trump, and I think the voices will be even stronger in rebuke.

[RiverDog]

You guys go ahead and keep telling yourselves that Trump can't win. But don't sit there and tell me that there is no evidence that the public has less of a disdain for him than they do Biden. You may not like what the polls are telling you and you can rationalize the fact that in each election, they've underestimated Trump's drawing power, but it is evidence, very compelling evidence IMO.

Plus, don't forget that elections aren't won by the most popular candidate. They're won by whoever secures the most electors, and recently, the electoral college has favored Republicans. Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million yet lost in the electoral college.

Money doesn't make as much difference as you think it does, especially when the candidate in question already has name recognition. Unlike someone like Nikki Haley, Trump doesn't need to buy advertising to get his mug in front of voters or to get his views out. He's always in the news cycle. His stances are already well known.

I honestly hope you guys are right, but I hope that Trump's opponents aren't underestimating him like the two of you are. I keep getting this visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

[Aseahawkfan]

You guys go ahead and keep telling yourselves that Trump can't win. But don't sit there and tell me that there is no evidence that the public has less of a disdain for him than they do Biden. You may not like what the polls are telling you and you can rationalize the fact that in each election, they've underestimated Trump's drawing power, but it is evidence, very compelling evidence IMO.

Plus, don't forget that elections aren't won by the most popular candidate. They're won by whoever secures the most electors, and recently, the electoral college has favored Republicans. Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million yet lost in the electoral college.

Money doesn't make as much difference as you think it does, especially when the candidate in question already has name recognition. Unlike someone like Nikki Haley, Trump doesn't need to buy advertising to get his mug in front of voters or to get his views out. He's always in the news cycle. His stances are already well known.

I honestly hope you guys are right, but I hope that Trump's opponents aren't underestimating him like the two of you are. I keep getting this visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

You are crazy delusional if you think money doesn't make much of a difference. It makes a huge difference in being able to pay for campaigns or attack ads. As well as fund campaigns not just for president, but with the entire party. If big money donors don't want Trump to win and won't open their wallets, he won't win.

Peter Thiel, Cheney, the Koch brothers, and a bunch of other superdonors and Super PAC runners supported Trump during his first run enabling him to spend huge sums of cash on his campaign. He also had the full backing of Fox News including the Murdoch family. Now he's cost them 787 billion dollars.

America runs on money. That's why you don't see poor men winning the presidency. You don't even see many poor folk in Congress or once they get there they suddenly get rich.

If wealthy people pull their support and put it behind someone else, candidates will feel it.

We'll see soon enough what the real power players think of Trump, the ones who really decide if a guy is worth putting in power to get done what they want done.

[RiverDog]

You are crazy delusional if you think money doesn't make much of a difference. It makes a huge difference in being able to pay for campaigns or attack ads. As well as fund campaigns not just for president, but with the entire party. If big money donors don't want Trump to win and won't open their wallets, he won't win.

In 2016, Hillary Clinton way outspent Trump yet lost the election:

Hillary Clinton and her supporters spent a record $1.2 billion for her losing presidential campaign — twice as much as the winner, Donald Trump, according to the latest records.

https://nypost.com/2016/12/09/hillary-c ... cord-1-2b/

So if money makes as much of a difference as you are claiming, then please explain how Hillary could have out spent Trump by 2-1 yet lose the election.

2016 represented a change. Social media provided politicians a free platform, unfiltered by the press, to launch their attack ads. Hillary wasn't very active on social media. Donald Trump was. He became our first Twitter President.

[c_hawkbob]

Trump doubling down on all his batsh!t craziness at every opportunity and continuously moving farther and farther to the extreme right is narrowing his base, not widening it. There's no way he gets more voters this time around than 2020. Meanwhile with the addition of the abortion issue I don't see the Dems, regardless of whether it's Grandpa Joe or an alternative, getting less.

[I-5]

You guys go ahead and keep telling yourselves that Trump can't win. But don't sit there and tell me that there is no evidence that the public has less of a disdain for him than they do Biden. You may not like what the polls are telling you and you can rationalize the fact that in each election, they've underestimated Trump's drawing power, but it is evidence, very compelling evidence IMO.

Plus, don't forget that elections aren't won by the most popular candidate. They're won by whoever secures the most electors, and recently, the electoral college has favored Republicans. Hillary won the popular vote by over 2 million yet lost in the electoral college.

Money doesn't make as much difference as you think it does, especially when the candidate in question already has name recognition. Unlike someone like Nikki Haley, Trump doesn't need to buy advertising to get his mug in front of voters or to get his views out. He's always in the news cycle. His stances are already well known.

I honestly hope you guys are right, but I hope that Trump's opponents aren't underestimating him like the two of you are. I keep getting this visit from the Ghost of Christmas Future.

I didn't say Trump CAN'T win. If he becomes the nominee, of course he COULD win. What I am pointing out, and others, is why he WON'T win. He has lost a lot of support since he lost, and the crazier he talks, the further he isolates himself...meanwhile the democrats have had 2 high voter turnouts in the last 2 big elections. With women's rights going backwards thanks to the cynical moves by McConnell and the GOP, the energy is there for the dems and republicans sick of Trump to send him even further down. If Biden was 10 years younger, it would be a runaway election.

[RiverDog]

If Biden was 10 years younger, it would be a runaway election.

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

But even if I were to accept your premise, I don't think it would be a runaway election, not with a 42% job approval rating and an economy teetering on recession.

[I-5]

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

But even if I were to accept your premise, I don't think it would be a runaway election, not with a 42% job approval rating and an economy teetering on recession.

Does this comment mean age isn't a factor? Rather, I think it's the main mark on Joe imo.

[RiverDog]

If your aunt had balls, she'd be your uncle.

But even if I were to accept your premise, I don't think it would be a runaway election, not with a 42% job approval rating and an economy teetering on recession.

Does this comment mean age isn't a factor? Rather, I think it's the main mark on Joe imo.

You seem to think that the country is in love with Joe Biden if not for his age. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Surveys asking whether Biden should run again or not, and respondents citing his age, which I think is what you're referring to, are one thing. Job approval ratings are another. When the question asked is Do you approve of Joe Biden's job performance?, a respondent doesn't answer thinking "I think he's doing a bad job because he's too old." They answer thinking in terms of contemporary issues, ie the economy, a war, abortion, gas prices, et al.

When Joe Biden took office in January of 2021, his job approval rating was 57%. It stayed above 50% until mid-August of that year when he went 'underwater' with a higher disapproval rating than approval and has remained well below 50% ever since. That decline wasn't due to his age.

https://www.reuters.com/graphics/USA-BI ... opagnqapa/

If an incumbent POTUS running for re-election has a sub 50% approval rating, it usually means trouble. Ford, Carter, Bush 41, Bush 43, and Trump all had sub 50% approval ratings in the month prior to their election. Of those, only Bush 43, with a 48% approval rating, won re-election. In the meantime, those incumbents that won re-election, ie Ike, JFK/LBJ, Nixon, Reagan, Clinton, and Obama, all had 50%+ ratings in the month prior to their re-election bid.

Negative job approval isn't a rule and there's been some doubts expressed as to the accuracy of polling and surveys in the digital/wireless age, that we can't compare Biden's 37% https://nypost.com/2023/04/28/bidens-ap ... -low-poll/ with Jimmy Carter's 37% because they were taken under different conditions. But Biden's 20-point percentage drop, from 57% in January of 2021 to 37% today, is real, and when you consider that in 2020 Biden won a close election, it should be taken as a warning sign.

Note: They started taking job approval surveys after WW2, but I left out Harry Truman in 1948, an incumbent who won re-election, because I couldn't find reliable data. Truman's approval rating in June of 1948 was 39%, but that was the last month that they took the survey prior to the election. By the time he was inaugurated in Jan. of 1949, his approval rating was 70%, so who knows what it was 3 months earlier. It was the early days of polling and not very reliable.

[I-5]

Unless you're trying to put words in my mouth, no I don't think the country is in love with Biden. I'm not in love with Biden. Yes, he has issues beyond age. But unlike some people, I don't place all responsibility of economic situations on the president, just like you don't pin gas prices on a president...well, some people here do. Gobally the american dollar is strong, especially here in Canada.

Trump himself is the problem. If he wins the nomination, 2024 will still be about a referendum on Trump, and all he has done since he lost in 2020 is dig himself into a deeper hole of insignificance, alienating more and more people, and continuing with his bogus claims. Even his supporters are sick of him, except for the die hards. I think he will lose bigger than he did in 2020.

[RiverDog]

Unless you're trying to put words in my mouth, no I don't think the country is in love with Biden. I'm not in love with Biden. Yes, he has issues beyond age. But unlike some people, I don't place all responsibility of economic situations on the president, just like you don't pin gas prices on a president...well, some people here do. Gobally the american dollar is strong, especially here in Canada.

I don't place all the responsibility of the economy, gas prices, et al on Biden, either. As a matter of fact, I place very little blame on him. I was speaking of the average voter, and they do draw a direct line between the economy, gas prices and whoever is sitting behind the desk at the Oval Office. I've seen it happen with Jimmy Carter and Bush 41, where the economy slumps due to nothing of their own doing yet the voters held them responsible. It's a powerful campaign issue. I recall vividly what Ronald Reagan said to voters during a nationally televised debate against Jimmy Carter in 1980:

And then, during the debate, Reagan posed what has become one of the most important campaign questions of all time: “Are you better off today than you were four years ago?”

A bad economy, high gas prices, etc, is going to be very difficult for any incumbent to defend. What's he going to say? It's not my fault? An answer like that would go over like a fart in church with the voters.

Trump himself is the problem. If he wins the nomination, 2024 will still be about a referendum on Trump, and all he has done since he lost in 2020 is dig himself into a deeper hole of insignificance, alienating more and more people, and continuing with his bogus claims. Even his supporters are sick of him, except for the die hards. I think he will lose bigger than he did in 2020.

That doesn't mean squat to about 40% of the voters. Many would vote for Adolph Hitler before they'd vote for a Democrat. Heck, the indictment barely moved the needle in Trump's popularity, if anything, he got stronger.

IMO one of the main reasons why Biden won in 2020 was due to the pandemic. With one exception, that being his getting behind the vaccines, Trump did a horrible job of managing the crisis. It was the reason why Biden's popularity was as high as it was during his first 6 months, because they liked the way he approached it vs. what Trump had been doing.

At this moment in time, I honestly can't say who I think is going to win. We're still 18 months out, and a lot can change between now and then. But my feeling is that if the election were held today, that Trump would beat Biden. I hope I'm wrong.

[I-5]

Riv, I'm not here to convince you of anything...but I will say I wasn't worried who was going to win the last presidential election. I was confident Biden would beat Trump, so it was no surprise, just as I am confident this time of a greater margin. Trump is less and less relevant, and his die hards are dwindling, if not louder. Losing Murdoch's support is not insignificant.

[RiverDog]

Riv, I'm not here to convince you of anything...but I will say I wasn't worried who was going to win the last presidential election. I was confident Biden would beat Trump, so it was no surprise, just as I am confident this time of a greater margin. Trump is less and less relevant, and his die hards are dwindling, if not louder. Losing Murdoch's support is not insignificant.

You're looking at Trump in a vacuum and not taking into consideration just how weak Joe Biden is. Take a look at how the less relevant Trump matches up head-to-head with Biden:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epoll ... 7383.html#!

And that's before you factor in what we've learned over the past 8 years, that Trump has a significant number of closet voters.

Sure, losing Murdoch's support is a big loss for Trump. But so are Biden's negatives. All Trump has to do is flip 3 states that he lost by less than 3% in 2020 and we have another 4 years of the Orange Baboon. I am not at all confident that Biden/Harris can beat Trump.

[I-5]

Nope, not looking at Trump in a vaccuum. He will lose to Biden, by a larger margin than in 2024, both electoral and popular.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think Trump is cooked myself. He's a liability to the Republicans if he wins the presidential nomination. He may keep his looney fringe voting for him, but he won't be able to get anything done with a divided Congress other than get himself impeached again because he can't control his narcissism.

[RiverDog]

I hope you guys are right.

Here's another threat to the re-election of Joe Biden: Robert Kennedy Jr.

He's a strange dude, a liberal Democrat that's an avowed anti vaxxer, accused of spreading mis-information about vaccines and the pandemic. opposed mandates, has made statements like wanting to jail climate change deniers, and has praised former Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez. Most of his own family don't endorse his ideas and statements.

But he's starting out with 19% of the vote for the Democratic nomination vs. Biden, which speaks to just how weak Sleepy Joe is. A candidate challenging an incumbent POTUS within their own party shouldn't get more than 5% of the vote. It's another parallel with a Democratic one term POTUS from nearly 50 years ago, Jimmy Carter, who had a challenger for his party's nomination the left, ironically RFK Jr.'s uncle, the late Ted Kennedy.

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that Kennedy would ever get within spitting distance of Biden for the nomination. But believe me, just as Ted Kennedy did to Jimmy Carter, RFK Jr. could cause all sorts of grief for Biden by bleeding away liberal support. The first problem is whether or not Biden will debate him. The party operatives will be trying everything in their power to keep him off the debate stage as it can do nothing but harm Biden as the 80-year-old Sleepy Joe has difficulty stringing together more than a few sentences without getting befuddled. But they have to treat RFK Jr. with kid gloves, as if they piss him off, he might just run in the general election as an independent, and that could siphon enough votes to give Trump a margin in a few critical states that Biden has to win.

So you guys go right on believing that Trump doesn't have a chance. Please, don't bet any amount of money on your hunches.

[c_hawkbob]

Kennedy's a clown, way out on the fringe, he's not a threat to anybody.

[RiverDog]

Kennedy's a clown, way out on the fringe, he's not a threat to anybody.

I agree, Kennedy is not a direct threat to Biden or anyone else, and I said so in my previous comments. But the fact that right out of the gate, he can pull nearly 1 in 5 Democratic voters away from Biden has to be settling off alarm bells within the Democratic party. To be sure, some of that popularity can be simply due to name recognition as Kennedy is perhaps the most recognized name in American politics. But as you yourself pointed out, he's way out there on the fringe and shouldn't be polling any more than 5%, 10% max against the party standard bearer. It's another sign of just how weak Biden is.

And if RFK Jr. is able to force his way onto a debate stage with Sleepy Joe, and just this weekend, he's been making a lot of noise about it, there's absolutely nothing good that can come from it:

Democratic presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy told CNN's Smerconish during an interview this weekend that President Biden has an "obligation to democracy" to participate in primary debates.

"I think there should be debates, particularly at this time in history, there are so many Americans who are worried about election integrity, who have lost faith in election integrity and feel like the whole system, including the election system, is rigged against them," Kennedy said. "There were riots on Capitol Hill because of that... So I think the political parties out to be doing everything they can to convince the American public that we really have a democracy in this country."

"I'm hoping that even if I have 5%, it is important to do debates." "I think he (Biden) has an obligation to democracy to debate anything," he said.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... _real.html

The threshold for debates sponsored by the Commission on Presidential Debates is 15%. RFK Jr. can make a compelling argument that Biden has an obligation to debate a serious contender for the nomination.

[RiverDog]

More bad news for Biden:

President Joe Biden’s approval slid to a career low in the latest opinion poll for ABC News and the Washington Post that also showed the US leader lagging predecessor Donald Trump in early voter preferences for the 2024 election.

The percentage of those approving of Biden’s performance fell to 36%, six points lower than in February and a point off his previous low in early 2022, according to the survey conducted for the news organizations by Langer Research Associates. Some 56% disapproved of his performance, while 68% regarded Biden, at 80, as too old for another term.

On the question of whom voters prefer for 2024, only 44% viewed Trump, 76, as too advanced in years. Participants also rated Trump’s physical health and mental acuity higher, and perceived the former president as having done a better job handling the economy when he was president than Biden has done in his term so far.

When asked who they’d support in 2024, 44% said they would “definitely” or “probably” vote for Trump, more than the 38% who said they’d do the same for Biden.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ify%20wall

I know that you guys think that I'm full of baloney (or some other substance), but IMO there is a very real possibility that we'll end up with another 4 years of the Orange Baboon. Biden is an extremely weak candidate, and so far, all these legal troubles Trump has gone through hasn't done a lot to diminish his popularity when contrasted with Biden.

[Aseahawkfan]

More bad news for Biden:

President Joe Biden’s approval slid to a career low in the latest opinion poll for ABC News and the Washington Post that also showed the US leader lagging predecessor Donald Trump in early voter preferences for the 2024 election.

The percentage of those approving of Biden’s performance fell to 36%, six points lower than in February and a point off his previous low in early 2022, according to the survey conducted for the news organizations by Langer Research Associates. Some 56% disapproved of his performance, while 68% regarded Biden, at 80, as too old for another term.

On the question of whom voters prefer for 2024, only 44% viewed Trump, 76, as too advanced in years. Participants also rated Trump’s physical health and mental acuity higher, and perceived the former president as having done a better job handling the economy when he was president than Biden has done in his term so far.

When asked who they’d support in 2024, 44% said they would “definitely” or “probably” vote for Trump, more than the 38% who said they’d do the same for Biden.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ify%20wall

I know that you guys think that I'm full of baloney (or some other substance), but IMO there is a very real possibility that we'll end up with another 4 years of the Orange Baboon. Biden is an extremely weak candidate, and so far, all these legal troubles Trump has gone through hasn't done a lot to diminish his popularity when contrasted with Biden.

All I imagine when you post these is the attack ads for Trump starting and looking way worse than the attack ads for Biden. All the January 6th footage, all the quotes, all the chaos being blared across the screen again in attack ad after attack ad and I think we'll see Orange Baboon polls dropping again and again and again.

Polls at this point in the process mean next to nothing to me. We'll see who gets nominated as I think the Republican Party is going to Bernie Sanders Trump because they also see those attack ads that write themselves with Trump as the candidate.

[RiverDog]

I know that you guys think that I'm full of baloney (or some other substance), but IMO there is a very real possibility that we'll end up with another 4 years of the Orange Baboon. Biden is an extremely weak candidate, and so far, all these legal troubles Trump has gone through hasn't done a lot to diminish his popularity when contrasted with Biden.

All I imagine when you post these is the attack ads for Trump starting and looking way worse than the attack ads for Biden. All the January 6th footage, all the quotes, all the chaos being blared across the screen again in attack ad after attack ad and I think we'll see Orange Baboon polls dropping again and again and again.

Polls at this point in the process mean next to nothing to me. We'll see who gets nominated as I think the Republican Party is going to Bernie Sanders Trump because they also see those attack ads that write themselves with Trump as the candidate.

You're right, a lot can change between now and November 2024, part of which is the campaigns and their attack ads once they start in earnest about this time next year, and yes, Trump has more skeletons in his closet than Biden does in his. These two latest legal problems for Trump, the one involving the hush money payments to the pornstar and his civil rape trial, are peanuts that haven't resulted in a significant erosion of support. The more serious charge, his election interference charge down in Georgia, is a criminal probe and has the potential to change that paradigm for a person who is now being called Teflon Don,

But Biden does have skeletons, namely his son Hunter, a scandal which is starting to get some traction as it may involve the old man himself as well as Biden's Justice Department. Who knows how that one will turn out.

Polling isn't as accurate as it once was. Back when I was growing up, my mother always answered the phone when it rang, was always cordial with the caller and would answer questions and give her opinion honestly. If a traveling salesman knocked on our door, my parents would invite them in for coffee. Today, I won't even take a call unless they're in my contacts. Too much span and possible scams. Nor will I give a stranger that approaches my door the time of day. They may be casing my house. That attitude didn't exist in the 50's-70's. Bottom line is that in the 21st century, polling is much more difficult and not as accurate as it was in the past.

But that doesn't mean that polls are irrelevant. Although they're not as accurate, they still show trends, they generally don't change dramatically overnight, and right now, the trend for Sleepy Joe doesn't look good. It's worth our time to pay attention to them.

[Aseahawkfan]

If the Republican Party nominates and gets behind Trump, they are dumb as rocks.

It's been a long time since 2016 and 2020. Trump as near as I can see it crapped the bed and tried to blame the smell on someone else. Even though he has some followers who still wanted to smell that stink and call it flowers, many of the Republicans that watched him do it are no longer backing him that backed in 2016 and 2020.

People tend to forget Dick Cheney backed Trump. The Koch brothers. Peter Thiel. People in his cabinet. Mitch McConnell. Fox News had Tucker Carlson and the entire Fox News "Family" backing Trump. He lost a lot of support for his January 6 trash. He'll be pushing his late 70s come election time with a rape trial ongoing and probably more ammunition ready to unleash on him by his own party come nomination time. You'll notice the RNC didn't care that he declared he's running. He's not been declared the candidate and the floor is open.

I think they are gun hard at Trump come election time. He's no longer the "cool" outsider flipping the finger at the establishment. Now he's the January 6th assclown who couldn't pull off the win or find any compelling evidence for his election fraud theory that let a riot break out in the Capitol that led to the death of at least one of his followers, many of his followers being jailed or put on probation, and the death of a Capitol Police Officer as well as general chaos and harm to our nation's Capitol. He threw his Vice President under the bus who no longer supports him. Not even hearing Kevin McCarthy giving a crap about Trump.

Trump's doing his best to keep himself relevant, but he's old news waiting to get swept under the rug by the Republican Party power players as soon as they can manage it.

No one likes a president who craps the bed in public. It's why in 2024 it would not surprise me to see two completely different candidates, but it does sound like the Democratic Party is at least going to give Biden his shot at term two because they're candidates are so looney he's probably the only one they think can clearly beat Trump. The Democrats have gone way too far left and pushing things the majority of Americans just don't want like defunded cops, reparations, transgender gender affirming care for prepubescent kids with no parental oversight, excessive taxes from the Federal to State level, gun bans, and more than I can list.

All the Republicans have to do is find an appealing Republican candidate besides Trump and they can probably take the White House easily given how looney the Democrats have gone. Then again a lot will depend on the economy by 2024, which is hardly a sure thing one way or the other.

I don't even know these two parties any more. Two political parties making America into some kind of extremist clown show that makes us all look like a bunch of looney, drugged up idiots. When did the U.S.S. America go off the cliff into the deep end of the political pool? You used to at least be able to look at each political party as though they had some sane, intelligent members leading each group. But now we got AOC and Marjorie Taylore Greene getting headlines? WTH happened?

[RiverDog]

I don't disagree with anything you've said and harbor much of the same sentiment.

One thing that might change Biden's awful status could be the debt ceiling standoff. If Biden sticks to his guns and refuses to negotiate a strings attached compromise and the Republicans cave, he could be seen as a big winner. The other thing that might do the trick is for the Ukrainians to gain the upper hand in their war with Russia or if Putin dies and the new regime pulls out. So from Biden's POV, it's not all without hope. But there's little doubt that his chances have taken some major hits.

We'll see how it plays out. But at this time, you have to admit that a nightmare scenario of Trump winning another term is a real possibility.

[Aseahawkfan]

I don't disagree with anything you've said and harbor much of the same sentiment.

One thing that might change Biden's awful status could be the debt ceiling standoff. If Biden sticks to his guns and refuses to negotiate a strings attached compromise and the Republicans cave, he could be seen as a big winner. The other thing that might do the trick is for the Ukrainians to gain the upper hand in their war with Russia or if Putin dies and the new regime pulls out. So from Biden's POV, it's not all without hope. But there's little doubt that his chances have taken some major hits.

We'll see how it plays out. But at this time, you have to admit that a nightmare scenario of Trump winning another term is a real possibility.

Yeah, sure it's a possibility. The more I watch these two parties, the more I feel less inspired about America. I don't like these parties. I don't understand them. I would not send my kid to an American public school in the modern day. The government has become a tool of bureaucracy these parties are wielding like a weapon to push their agenda without the consent or vote of the people. They push it on all us through the schools, institutions, and are abusing the power of government trying to close off any place for people disagree with them where each holds power and not solving problems and coming to compromises as they are supposed to do.

As bad as the Republicans are, the Democrats should be crushing them easily. But they're so damn crazy too that they leave too many openings for attack by the Republicans. Joe Biden may be the last of the centrist Democrats to hold office. It may be all crazy and crazier for the Democrats. Only thing preventing that from happening with Republicans is Trump was so crazy, it will be hard to top him unless Marjorie Taylor Greene gets the nomination.

[c_hawkbob]

Now Trump found liable for sexual assault and defamation and ordered to pay E. Jean Carroll $5M.

Won't impact his base one bit, but may lose him some independent support.

[RiverDog]

Now Trump found liable for sexual assault and defamation and ordered to pay E. Jean Carroll $5M.

Won't impact his base one bit, but may lose him some independent support.

Wow, $5M is peanuts. I wonder if Trump has to pay her legal fees.

And I don't think he's going to lose very many independents, either. If all the chit that Trump has done since losing the election hasn't changed the mind of anyone that voted for him or is considering voting for him, losing a civil suit won't cause them to raise an eyebrow.

[Hawktawk]

I recall several posters who ripped me over and over for saying I believed the woman . Harsh words . Well ?

I believed a certain victim of a scotus nominee too . Always will .

Of course this will lather up his base even more , love to see the Christian right suck up to this vile psychotic POS . They would elect him from prison for child molestation which he’s also guilty of for a fact .

Seem to recall a lot of verbal abuse and I think some folks cutting me off for being absolutely apoplectic this piece of dog puke was running for president . Sorry to be right . Good people die of heart attacks all the time . What about this manic cheeseburger eating stink bloated pig . It will be an all-nighter when he checks out . Satan is waiting .
Don’t like Trump .

[RiverDog]

I recall several posters who ripped me over and over for saying I believed the woman . Harsh words . Well ?

I believed a certain victim of a scotus nominee too . Always will .

Of course this will lather up his base even more , love to see the Christian right suck up to this vile psychotic POS . They would elect him from prison for child molestation which he’s also guilty of for a fact .

Seem to recall a lot of verbal abuse and I think some folks cutting me off for being absolutely apoplectic this piece of dog puke was running for president . Sorry to be right . Good people die of heart attacks all the time . What about this manic cheeseburger eating stink bloated pig . It will be an all-nighter when he checks out . Satan is waiting .
Don’t like Trump .

Oh, jeez. Here we go again, with the self pity over how you were treated in here. Who ripped you for saying that you believed the woman involved in the case of Donald Trump? You believe every woman's accusation against an individual that you dislike. No surprise there.

As far as this case goes, it wasn't a criminal trial, but a civil trial where the bar of proof isn't "beyond a reasonable doubt", it's "more likely than not." If one were to attach percentages to it, a criminal trial would require a 90+% degree of confidence, a civil trial 51%. From everything I've seen, if it were a criminal trial, there wouldn't be enough evidence for me to vote to convict, but I would in a civil trial as it's one of those "the shoe fits" things, dovetails to a 'T" with everything Trump has been known to say or do.

Here's what Mitt Romney, a man I admire and voted for back in 2012, had to say about Republicans and Trump:

Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah) urged his party to move on from Donald Trump hours after a civil jury found the former president liable for sexual abuse and defamation.

“I hope the jury of the American people reach the same conclusion about Donald Trump,” Romney told CNN. “He just is not suited to be president of the United States and to be the person who we hold up to our children and the world as the leader of the free world.”

“At some point when the people who work with you, your cabinet secretaries, and juries conclude that you’ve done something severely wrong, it’s time for us to recognize that the great majority of those who’ve worked with him are right and he’s wrong,” he added.

I hope people listen to Mitt as he speaks the truth. But I'm afraid that the majority won't, at least not enough of them to deny him the R nomination.

[Aseahawkfan]

I read the verdict. Trump wasn't convicted of rape. It was one of those weird Civil Trials with much lower standards of evidence that is generally used to bleed rich people of money and smear their reputations. You see it used against companies, wealthy people, and the like quite a bit. Doesn't really prove any crime was committed, just does enough for lawyers to make money and likely the plaintiff. Even with this verdict, it's not an important trial and gets this particular problem mostly over for Trump.

Some of the more important cases are upcoming. if the Democrats can stick those, then Trump will have real problems.

[RiverDog]

I read the verdict. Trump wasn't convicted of rape. It was one of those weird Civil Trials with much lower standards of evidence that is generally used to bleed rich people of money and smear their reputations. You see it used against companies, wealthy people, and the like quite a bit. Doesn't really prove any crime was committed, just does enough for lawyers to make money and likely the plaintiff. Even with this verdict, it's not an important trial and gets this particular problem mostly over for Trump.

Some of the more important cases are upcoming. if the Democrats can stick those, then Trump will have real problems.

That's correct. There's two levels of sexual assault, criminal and civil. This was civil trial, and as I stated above, all they needed to do was prove that it was "more likely than not", or more than 50% likelihood. Trump was convicted of sexual abuse and defamation. There is no sentencing. He simply owes money.

In this particular case, even without looking at the evidence presented in this trial and just judging by what we have come to know as Trump's behavior towards women, the "grab 'em by the pu$$y", his associations with Jeffrey Epstein, his affairs with porn stars, the number of sexual misconduct/harassment charges filed against him, it was pretty clear to me that Trump probably did what he was being accused of. It fits a narrative that Trump himself has established. It was almost to the point where the burden of proof that he didn't do it would have rested on the accused. And, of course, Trump didn't say anything during the trial that would convince me of his innocence, actually said some things to convince me otherwise, particularly when he claims that the accuser "wasn't his type" yet he mistook her for his ex-wife, obviously a woman that was his type, an indication that he wasn't being truthful at least about the woman's looks not appealing to him.

And once again, as I said earlier, this case won't bump the needle with any Trump supporter. If all the crap that has happened since the election hasn't caused a Trump voter to give him up, this case certainly isn't going to do the trick.

[Aseahawkfan]

That's correct. There's two levels of sexual assault, criminal and civil. This was civil trial, and as I stated above, all they needed to do was prove that it was "more likely than not", or more than 50% likelihood. Trump was convicted of sexual abuse and defamation. There is no sentencing. He simply owes money.

In this particular case, even without looking at the evidence presented in this trial and just judging by what we have come to know as Trump's behavior towards women, the "grab 'em by the pu$$y", his associations with Jeffrey Epstein, his affairs with porn stars, the number of sexual misconduct/harassment charges filed against him, it was pretty clear to me that Trump probably did what he was being accused of. It fits a narrative that Trump himself has established. It was almost to the point where the burden of proof that he didn't do it would have rested on the accused. And, of course, Trump didn't say anything during the trial that would convince me of his innocence, actually said some things to convince me otherwise, particularly when he claims that the accuser "wasn't his type" yet he mistook her for his ex-wife, obviously a woman that was his type, an indication that he wasn't being truthful at least about the woman's looks not appealing to him.

And once again, as I said earlier, this case won't bump the needle with any Trump supporter. If all the crap that has happened since the election hasn't caused a Trump voter to give him up, this case certainly isn't going to do the trick.

I doubt he raped her myself. Trump isn't a physical enough person to do it. I think she hooked up with him back when he was a big deal in New York and saw an opportunity to profit off if it with her book and such and did. Do I care that Trump owes money because of it? No. He brought all this on himself and is getting what he asked for. He should have stayed out of politics and he would be sitting back enjoying his life and living the rich man's life. He decided to step into the political arena, piss off the wrong people, and then try to fight them rather than compromise. When you're that stupid, you get what you get. Trump thought he was untouchable and he's found out that even men like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as wealthy as they are know to stay out of the dirty business of politics.

[RiverDog]

That's correct. There's two levels of sexual assault, criminal and civil. This was civil trial, and as I stated above, all they needed to do was prove that it was "more likely than not", or more than 50% likelihood. Trump was convicted of sexual abuse and defamation. There is no sentencing. He simply owes money.

In this particular case, even without looking at the evidence presented in this trial and just judging by what we have come to know as Trump's behavior towards women, the "grab 'em by the pu$$y", his associations with Jeffrey Epstein, his affairs with porn stars, the number of sexual misconduct/harassment charges filed against him, it was pretty clear to me that Trump probably did what he was being accused of. It fits a narrative that Trump himself has established. It was almost to the point where the burden of proof that he didn't do it would have rested on the accused. And, of course, Trump didn't say anything during the trial that would convince me of his innocence, actually said some things to convince me otherwise, particularly when he claims that the accuser "wasn't his type" yet he mistook her for his ex-wife, obviously a woman that was his type, an indication that he wasn't being truthful at least about the woman's looks not appealing to him.

And once again, as I said earlier, this case won't bump the needle with any Trump supporter. If all the crap that has happened since the election hasn't caused a Trump voter to give him up, this case certainly isn't going to do the trick.

I doubt he raped her myself. Trump isn't a physical enough person to do it. I think she hooked up with him back when he was a big deal in New York and saw an opportunity to profit off if it with her book and such and did. Do I care that Trump owes money because of it? No. He brought all this on himself and is getting what he asked for. He should have stayed out of politics and he would be sitting back enjoying his life and living the rich man's life. He decided to step into the political arena, piss off the wrong people, and then try to fight them rather than compromise. When you're that stupid, you get what you get. Trump thought he was untouchable and he's found out that even men like Bill Gates and Warren Buffett as wealthy as they are know to stay out of the dirty business of politics.

No where in the charges does the word "rape" appear. It's a general term that is being used by the media to describe the charges. Trump was found guilty of "sexual abuse", and it doesn't necessarily have to include forced sexual intercourse. It can involve acts that do not include physical contact, like exposing oneself or showing explicit pictures. Additionally, the alleged conduct occurred 30 years ago when Trump was in his 40's, so he was much more physically capable than what we've all come to know him now. He was certainly capable of physically overpowering a 125 lb. female.

Trump has had at least 18 women file complaints of some sort of sexual assault or misconduct that dates back to the '70's. Some of these accusations involves putting his hand up a woman's skirt and grabbing her genitals, an act Trump himself bragged about in recorded conversations. The accusations are consistent with multiple other accusations and Trump's known conduct. They are completely believable.

Here's a list of some of the accusers and alleged acts:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-tr ... d=51956410

The fact that he did not appear in his own defense is also a factor in my belief that he more likely than not committed the acts he was being accused of. If I were being falsely accused of something, my attorney couldn't keep me off the stand. Trump was likely told to stay off the stand, that a slick prosecutor could set him up and get him to say something incriminating, and that he had a better chance of being acquitted if he simply kept his mouth shut.

If this were a criminal trial, there would be no where near enough evidence to convict him. But all these civil charges require is a 51% percent degree of confidence.

[Aseahawkfan]

No where in the charges does the word "rape" appear. It's a general term that is being used by the media to describe the charges. Trump was found guilty of "sexual abuse", and it doesn't necessarily have to include forced sexual intercourse. It can involve acts that do not include physical contact, like exposing oneself or showing explicit pictures. Additionally, the alleged conduct occurred 30 years ago when Trump was in his 40's, so he was much more physically capable than what we've all come to know him now. He was certainly capable of physically overpowering a 125 lb. female.

Trump has had at least 18 women file complaints of some sort of sexual assault or misconduct that dates back to the '70's. Some of these accusations involves putting his hand up a woman's skirt and grabbing her genitals, an act Trump himself bragged about in recorded conversations. The accusations are consistent with multiple other accusations and Trump's known conduct. They are completely believable.

Here's a list of some of the accusers and alleged acts:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-tr ... d=51956410

The fact that he did not appear in his own defense is also a factor in my belief that he more likely than not committed the acts he was being accused of. If I were being falsely accused of something, my attorney couldn't keep me off the stand. Trump was likely told to stay off the stand, that a slick prosecutor could set him up and get him to say something incriminating, and that he had a better chance of being acquitted if he simply kept his mouth shut.

If this were a criminal trial, there would be no where near enough evidence to convict him. But all these civil charges require is a 51% percent degree of confidence.

Not sure why you posted this response. Carroll originally accused Trump of rape. You said you believed her and I don't. As far as sexual assault goes in the modern day, you or I or anyone on this forum could be randomly accused of sexual assault from years ago and right now people like Hawkawk and the media can convince them you did it regardless of trial. The burden of proof is not even close to 51 percent or 10 percent at the moment. If you get accused, you're guilty. So posting this magical 51 percent number means nothing to me.

I told you what I think which is she hooked up with Trump back when he was a big deal and is profiting off it now. That's what I believe is occurring. This is just one of the many ways the Democrats are using the legal system to bleed and harass Trump to show him they can screw him.

Just like I believe the Republicans are going to do the same to Joe Biden with whatever they can get on him as payback. And any future Democrat will suffer the same as I have never seen the Republicans not dot their best to pay back the Dems when the Dems screw them. And vice versa.

This stuff is coming up because of vengeful, petty politics. Trump would have avoided it all if he wasn't an asinine idiot that decided to play "You can't touch me" with other powerful people in politics.

That's the game that is being played by the various parties involved with the peanut gallery chiming in at various points picking a side regardless of the morality or anything else involved. They don't plan to stop until they screw him, he gives up the political game and shuts the hell up, or he wins as president again and gets enough leverage to start screwing the Democrats back which I doubt happens again as he becomes a deader and deader candidate.

You're posting legal standing like it means anything in America. If someone wants to get you legally, beyond a reasonable doubt or 51% or what don't matter. What does matter is if he you got the political juice to fight back and push things your way. If you don't, then you end up screwed.

[RiverDog]

No where in the charges does the word "rape" appear. It's a general term that is being used by the media to describe the charges. Trump was found guilty of "sexual abuse", and it doesn't necessarily have to include forced sexual intercourse. It can involve acts that do not include physical contact, like exposing oneself or showing explicit pictures. Additionally, the alleged conduct occurred 30 years ago when Trump was in his 40's, so he was much more physically capable than what we've all come to know him now. He was certainly capable of physically overpowering a 125 lb. female.

Trump has had at least 18 women file complaints of some sort of sexual assault or misconduct that dates back to the '70's. Some of these accusations involves putting his hand up a woman's skirt and grabbing her genitals, an act Trump himself bragged about in recorded conversations. The accusations are consistent with multiple other accusations and Trump's known conduct. They are completely believable.

Here's a list of some of the accusers and alleged acts:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-tr ... d=51956410

The fact that he did not appear in his own defense is also a factor in my belief that he more likely than not committed the acts he was being accused of. If I were being falsely accused of something, my attorney couldn't keep me off the stand. Trump was likely told to stay off the stand, that a slick prosecutor could set him up and get him to say something incriminating, and that he had a better chance of being acquitted if he simply kept his mouth shut.

If this were a criminal trial, there would be no where near enough evidence to convict him. But all these civil charges require is a 51% percent degree of confidence.

Not sure why you posted this response. Carroll originally accused Trump of rape. You said you believed her and I don't. As far as sexual assault goes in the modern day, you or I or anyone on this forum could be randomly accused of sexual assault from years ago and right now people like Hawkawk and the media can convince them you did it regardless of trial. The burden of proof is not even close to 51 percent or 10 percent at the moment. If you get accused, you're guilty. So posting this magical 51 percent number means nothing to me.

I'm a little skeptical that Trump actually raped her, too, as the physical mechanics of the 'rape' as described in the accuser's testimony made it a little less certain that they actually had intercourse. Indeed, the jury stopped short of rape and instead opted for battery.

I didn't say that I believed her, I said what she is accusing Trump of doing is believable. It's one of those "the shoe fits" sort of things. The number of women that have levied similar accusations against Trump both before and after this incident, public statements made by Trump, his chummy relationship with Jeffery Epstein (birds of a feather flock together), the fact that he did not take the stand in his own defense, and so on. I needed to hear something from the accused, a lie detector test, an impassionate denial on the witness stand (similar to what Kavanaugh gave in his hearing), something. To the contrary, Trump's own statement in his sworn deposition, that she wasn't his type, yet he confused her with his ex-wife, is an indication that he wasn't being truthful.

If Trump was innocent in this case, I don't have a lot of sympathy for him. With as many accusations as he's had levied against him, they can't all be false. He's had to have gotten away with at least one incident of sexual abuse, so if he was innocent of this one, it makes up for one of the ones he was got away with. In addition, there's a very good chance that he's assaulted women that never reported his behavior. It's a well-known fact that many women are reluctant to come forward and admit that they've been sexually assaulted due to the emotional trauma of having to face their accuser, the character assassination, the pain in having to repeat their recollection of the incident.

The other thing here is what she was asking for: $5M. That's peanuts, especially when you subtract her legal fees and other expenses. Trump was also found guilty of defamation, and in her case, there was a tangible loss of income directly related to some of the garbage Trump said in public about her. If she was a gold digger looking for her 15 seconds of fame, out for blood, and really wanted to put the screws to him, she would had to have asked for 10 times that amount.

$5M is .0015% of his net worth of $3.2B. Contrast that with my annual income, and it comes to about $135. Cry me a river!

[Hawktawk]

Did I read Asea say Trump isn’t “ physical “ enough to have raped her . He’s 6’3” 240 lbs. several other of his likely hundred or victims have described him as looming over them, towering . He raped her and was found liable by 12 peers of sexual battery . You good old boys make me throw up a little .

Donald has victims , not accusers . In most countries he would be in prison . As a former leader doing what he did and continues doing he might be facing a firing squad .

Evil man but some want to give him a little wiggle room . Well he didn’t “ rape “ her . If he put hands on her with the intent it’s the same thing . Just like a certain zit faced puke scotus trying to rip a swimsuit off a 14 year old girl .

I don’t believe every woman. I believe these ones 100 percent .

[RiverDog]

Did I read Asea say Trump isn’t “ physical “ enough to have raped her . He’s 6’3” 240 lbs. several other of his likely hundred or victims have described him as looming over them, towering . He raped her and was found liable by 12 peers of sexual battery . You good old boys make me throw up a little .

Donald has victims , not accusers . In most countries he would be in prison . As a former leader doing what he did and continues doing he might be facing a firing squad .

Evil man but some want to give him a little wiggle room . Well he didn’t “ rape “ her . If he put hands on her with the intent it’s the same thing . Just like a certain zit faced puke scotus trying to rip a swimsuit off a 14 year old girl .

I don’t believe every woman. I believe these ones 100 percent .

Trump putting his hands on her with the intent of raping her is NOT the same thing as rape. There is a very specific act, sexual intercourse, that has to have been committed in order for an action to be considered rape. That's why the jury did not find that Trump raped her and opted for the lesser crime of sexual battery.

I believed this woman, but not by a slam dunk. There were a lot of reasons why I felt that Trump probably had some sort of inappropriate, involuntary session with this woman, but I'm not relying solely on her testimony. Had it been someone that had never been accused, didn't have the type of history with women, or hadn't made the public statements that Trump did, I likely wouldn't have found him guilty. But with Trump, the shoe fits.

[Aseahawkfan]

Did I read Asea say Trump isn’t “ physical “ enough to have raped her . He’s 6’3” 240 lbs. several other of his likely hundred or victims have described him as looming over them, towering . He raped her and was found liable by 12 peers of sexual battery . You good old boys make me throw up a little .

Donald has victims , not accusers . In most countries he would be in prison . As a former leader doing what he did and continues doing he might be facing a firing squad .

Evil man but some want to give him a little wiggle room . Well he didn’t “ rape “ her . If he put hands on her with the intent it’s the same thing . Just like a certain zit faced puke scotus trying to rip a swimsuit off a 14 year old girl .

I don’t believe every woman. I believe these ones 100 percent .

Yeah. I said Trumps' a weakling. His physical size is irrelevant. Man don't have it in him to physically pull off that kind of crap. He'd run from anyone trying to fight him and cry to his security. Never heard that dude fighting, lifting weights, doing anything physical in his life.

No. He doesn't have victims. He has transactional relationships and opportunistic women trying to bleed him for cash and fame, just like he's had his entire life. That's why he dates models, supermodels, pornstars, and the like because he's into transactional relationships where he pays them or gives them a Hollywood opportunity or let's them mix with his rich friends. He's always been the typical rich guy using his money and influence to get women and crap he wants.

Yeah, whatever, we've listened to your garbage painting him as Satan for years. It's just as stupid then as it is now. He's some narcissistic wealthy jackass that thought his money could keep him suffering in the political game. He's finding out he messed with the wrong people and they're going to make him cry uncle and leave the political game.

That' dope don't know when to quit and go home.

As far as who should be in jail in most nations, that's just rubbish. The political scandals in other nations are just as bad and politicians get away with just as much garbage if they are wealthy and powerful enough. It's just how it works. That's why Epstein had rich men from around the world coming to visit his island and enjoy his offerings as wealthy and powerful men used young women as prostitutes.

As far as wiggle room, I' call crap as it is. I don't waste my time with looney rubbish. The world is as it is. I didn't make it. I just watch it with disgust. All these low character people feeding on each other for whatever they can get whether it's Trump wanting physical relations or these women he picks up wanting money, celebrity associations, and fame and are willing to engage in these transactional relationships. It's all part of human existence I want no part of.