Let The S*** Show Begin

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm with ASF on this one. This was a rookie mistake, made by people inexperienced in their positions. Fortunately, there were very few if any real consequences. It's more of a political hot potato due to all the uproar Republicans made over Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server, going so far as to advocate jail time for the misdeed. It's a PR nightmare, not one of the major problems I have with this Administration.

I'm much more concerned about the potential damage Trump might inflict on our economy if he follows through with these senseless tariffs. So what if China can produce a folding lawn chair, ship it across the Pacific, and sell it cheaper than we can? We don't have a jobs problem in this country that needs protection from international competition. Besides, a healthy trade relationship makes a shooting war less likely.

You are so far behind on China's capabilities. China is the only trade war I support. You have this 70s view of China producing folding chairs and low quality items with no technological capacity. That is not modern China.

Modern China can produce an EV on par with our best EV companies for a lower cost. BYD is producing high quality electric cars they are pushing into the global market with a price point far lower than any EV we can produce in America. They just surpassed Tesla in EV sales.

Huawei can produce a smartphone as good as Samsung or Apple. They have been banned from the American market because once again they can produce a phone of equivalent technological capability with a lower price point.

I hope you read at least a few of the stories on the Deepseek AI model Chinese programmers built that they are developing further that uses lower cost chips to America and is being pushed as a cheaper, equally advanced alternative to American AI models like ChatGPT and Gemini.

Tiktok is challenging Instagram and Facebook for social media dominance. Tiktok owner is based in Singapore, but supposedly connected to the Chinese government trying to bypass American bans on Chinese social media to take part of the market share from Meta.

Wake up, Riverdog. This is not the Chinese manufacturing of your youth. China is has reverse engineered and stolen massive amounts of technology from America, reverse engineered it, and produces their own products using cheap Chinese labor to undermine American economic dominance in emerging markets with their Belt and Road iniatiive.

That's why these idiotic trade wars with Canada with Europe are dumb. China is the one engaged in the vast majority of problematic economic behavior that is a threat to America, not Canada and Europe or even Mexico. The focus should have always been China and leveling that playing field and bringing some manufacturing from China back to America like N95 masks, antibiotic and medicine manufacturing, and protecting American intellectual property from being stolen.

Not wasting our damn time on dairy products and oil and gas from Canada or French wine or taking over Greenland.

Trump has completely lost focus on the Chinese asymmetric economic warfare and is wasting time on trade wars with allies and making friends with Russia. China is shrugging about this distracted crap as it wastes Trump's time allowing them to wait his dumbass out as well as opening the door for China to make better trade deals with our former allies that both undermine us and strengthen them in the global markets.

Trump is being a complete idiot while the Chinese economic monster is using his idiot moves to strengthen their position or at least keep America distracted from them while it wastes time in trade wars with allies that have beneficial trade with us.

[Aseahawkfan]

It wasn't just a rookie mistake, it was a total incompetence mistake. It's what happens when you appoint the least qualified possible candidate to every important position thinking you're the only one that needs to be in control of anything. This was totally predictable and is going to be the norm, not just an occasional event. OJT is not appropriate for these types of positions.

You mean like the incompetent Hilary Clinton using illegal mail servers and not responding properly to the embassy being under attack? I love how everyone responds to these distractions along party lines trying to make mistakes like this seem even worse than the ones committed by their own party's incompetents.

Once again the American media pushing distractions when Americans should be far more focused on the real stuff like Trump destroying American military power abroad, destroying trade agreements with allies, and threatening Greenland.

This is exactly why I think the liberal and conservative media are colluding. They are both pushing these stories from different angles which are nothing more than distractions from the real big problems going on with Trump's administration.

We are going to have to really stand up and resist if Trump tries to invade Greenland. Listening to JD Vance pretend just Europe is crying about Greenland is ridiculous. They don't want to be American and we cannot allow the American military to be used to take over Greenland. It can't just be posting on forums. We are going to have to really pull that back if that idiot idea continues to be pushed. This idea better die soon or end in some security agreement and not the American military trying to annex Greenland like these idiots seem to be pushing.

[c_hawkbob]

No I don't mean like Hillary's emails and I've about had enough of your false equivalencies. I agree with much of what you're saying but these two sides are not the same. They just aren't.

[River Dog]

It wasn't just a rookie mistake, it was a total incompetence mistake. It's what happens when you appoint the least qualified possible candidate to every important position thinking you're the only one that needs to be in control of anything. This was totally predictable and is going to be the norm, not just an occasional event. OJT is not appropriate for these types of positions.

You mean like the incompetent Hilary Clinton using illegal mail servers and not responding properly to the embassy being under attack? I love how everyone responds to these distractions along party lines trying to make mistakes like this seem even worse than the ones committed by their own party's incompetents.

"Everyone" responds along party lines? You can't include me in that group.

Although I agree that both Hillary's use of a private email server for official state department business are closely related, this one was far more egregious for a couple of reasons:

The content of Hillary's communications were mostly policy matters. These were actual battle plans where lives are being put at risk.

There was no evidence of any of Hillary's emails ever being accessed by unauthorized individuals. This Administration shared classified information with unauthorized sources.

Once again the American media pushing distractions when Americans should be far more focused on the real stuff like Trump destroying American military power abroad, destroying trade agreements with allies, and threatening Greenland.

This story will blow over in a few weeks. The Democrats would love to hold hearings on it and keep it in the front pages, but they don't control either house, so they'll have to content themselves with throwing stink bombs from the peanut gallery. This is a story because of the hypocrisy of Donald Trump and the Republicans. They're going to have to spend some time on the firing line, and I don't feel a damn bit sorry for them. I want to see them suffer.

Otherwise, I agree completely with your assessment. There are far more worse things going on in the Trump administration, and we should be focused on stopping those parts of his agenda, including the ones you've mentioned.

[Spohawk5092]

so how is everyone loving the s*** show so far? Many of us warned. Some listened. Many did not.

[River Dog]

so how is everyone loving the s*** show so far? Many of us warned. Some listened. Many did not.

I didn't vote for Trump in any of the past 3 elections, but it's worse than even I thought it would be, far worse at this point in his 2nd term than in his first. What has surprised me most is these idiotic proposals he's making, like buying Greenland and annexing Canada. The guy is a complete whacko.

[Spohawk5092]

again, many knew this, many didn't care. We're stuck unfortunately. It looks like its going to take something seriously bad to happen before GOP's in Washington D.C. do the right thing.

[River Dog]

again, many knew this, many didn't care. We're stuck unfortunately. It looks like its going to take something seriously bad to happen before GOP's in Washington D.C. do the right thing.

Yeah, I try not to think about it. I hardly ever watch the national news anymore because it's so depressing. I can't stand to see or listen to Trump because he's such an A-hole. And I have the better part of 4 years to put up with this unbearable horse pucky.

[Aseahawkfan]

No I don't mean like Hillary's emails and I've about had enough of your false equivalencies. I agree with much of what you're saying but these two sides are not the same. They just aren't.

A lot of it is not equivalent because it's insane. Trump's loose cannon, Demo-publican politics and now the Elon factor is nutters. This is not a reliable Republican government. It's some strange amalgamation of Libertarian, Democrat, Republican and whatever Trump decides when he wakes up in the morning on a given day he wants to do.

Annoying as hell is what it is. I hate this kind of inconsistent, all over the place government with the strange factor of the richest person in the world who spent 270 million on Trump's campaign to I guess cut government spending as he sees fit and use X to tweet out random crap...hell, I don't even know what Elon is doing anymore. Dude don't sleep and I think he may be really insane. He's taking drugs, fathering children with random women that contact him, and now he has an unelected, prominent position in our government.

At this point our government is run by bored billionaires with too much time on their hands and a belief they can do no wrong and do whatever random crap they feel like doing from day to day.

I'm not even sure Trump voters voted for this, but maybe they did...I don't know.

This whole period needs to end and get back to government we all understand even if it isn't great or agreeable, it's at least reliably so.

I don't even know what these people are going to do from day to day. I absolutely despise unreliable, crazy behavior.

Democratic Party better field a decent candidate this next time around to restore some normalcy, it seems the Trump voters are in full self-denial mode that they voted badly and aren't getting what they expected, but are so dug in that they won't admit it. Even my Trump voting friends are silent at this point and my Trump voting parents are wondering what the hell is going on with Elon, Trump, and all this stuff they didn't vote for, but they aren't quite ready to throw in the towel yet.

If the Dems can get their messaging straight and field some decent candidates, they should be able to take advantage of this chaos.

Near as I can tell even Trump voters are hoping at the end of it all, it makes some kind of sense and something positive comes out of it. Right now it all looks like a bunch of gobbly gook that no one can quite see the benefit of. Even other billionaires are treading carefully because of Elon. I see Warren Buffett and Bill Gates getting interviewed about Elon and they are very carefully responding because they are probably thinking, "Elon has a lot of power right now. And I'm not sure he's sane and I don't need him coming after me."

This is unfocused crazy.

[Aseahawkfan]

again, many knew this, many didn't care. We're stuck unfortunately. It looks like its going to take something seriously bad to happen before GOP's in Washington D.C. do the right thing.

You don't talk to Republicans much or something.

They voted for Trump because they think Democrats are crazy for a variety of reasons that Democrats seem to ignore. Republicans are very strongly against this transgender stuff whether it's schools pushing transgender ideology on prepubescent students or obvious males in female sports. Then there is the push against immigration enforcement when it has obviously gone overboard to the point we're overloading our own social systems and police forces. The critical race theory stuff and movements like defund the police.

Democrats would have won easy if they weren't pushing agendas that look more insane than Trump...which even you can see must look really nuts.

So until you look in the mirror at your own party and go, "Why do we Democrats look more insane than this obviously insane billionaire?", you're going to have problems getting elected.

I'm happy to see a few big Democrats like Newsom in California finally go, "This transgender push is a real problem for our party in the polls and we need to do something about it rather than pretend it's not important." It's important, very important.

A lot of these issues that Democrats are claiming are unimportant like defund the police, using Title 9 to push transgender females into female sports, and allowing massive levels of illegal immigration with the crime and obvious issues is stuff people really do care about and expect both parties to do something about as well the drug problems with heroin and fentanyl. Democratic voters seem very out of touch with how their party is handling these important matters that people do care about and see the Democratic Party as pushing crazy ideas in these areas that general American voters don't want.

I hope I continue to see some pushback by Democrats on some of the stupidest things on their agenda so I don't gotta deal with not just "vote for the lesser of two evils" but "vote of the less crazy party" with that party being the Trumplicans because independent voters are looking at Democrats and going, "That's the crazier party."

You have a real blind spot when you can't see that losing to the Trumplicans means the Democrats must look really, really, really insane and you gotta figure out why and fix it.

[River Dog]

There are some things that Trump/DOGE is doing that I agree with. One is that they're stopping the production of pennies. They could stop making nickels and dimes, too, as far as I'm concerned. Force stores to implement card only transactions. It's faster, more efficient. Most clerks are too stupid to count back change anyway.

I agree with getting rid of DEI. It's a racist, sexist, and IMO an illegal program that justifies discrimination. But I don't agree with their dismissing those who received their jobs via DEI. It's one of those two wrongs don't make a right things. It was wrong of them to have been promoted via DEI, but it's also wrong to dismiss them because of it. Dismissals should be done strictly on job performance, not some political opinion over how they attained their jobs.

I agree with eliminating the Department of Education and turning it over to the states, making students who borrowed money pay it back, turning loan management over to the SBA, and other things too lengthy to mention. But there doesn't seem to be any thought given as to the consequences. It's a bull in a China shop approach. Some of the stuff they've done, like making workers write a document stating what they did the previous week in order to justify their continued employment, is absurd. They're treating them like grade schoolers.

Most of his immigration stuff I disagree with. If an undocumented alien is advocating violence or other illegal activities, then by all means, round them up and deport them. But it seems to me that they're declaring some people a security threat for simply exercising their first amendment right of free speech, like voicing their disapproval of support for Israel. If an undocumented immigrant has committed some crime other than overstaying their visa, then absolutely, shag their ass. But if they are law abiding, working and paying taxes, have a roof over their heads and aren't on public assistance, then help them get their immigration status squared away and leave them alone.

[Aseahawkfan]

There are some things that Trump/DOGE is doing that I agree with. One is that they're stopping the production of pennies. They could stop making nickels and dimes, too, as far as I'm concerned. Force stores to implement card only transactions. It's faster, more efficient. Most clerks are too stupid to count back change anyway.

I agree with getting rid of DEI. It's a racist, sexist, and IMO an illegal program that justifies discrimination. But I don't agree with their dismissing those who received their jobs via DEI. It's one of those two wrongs don't make a right things. It was wrong of them to have been promoted via DEI, but it's also wrong to dismiss them because of it. Dismissals should be done strictly on job performance, not some political opinion over how they attained their jobs.

I agree with eliminating the Department of Education and turning it over to the states, making students who borrowed money pay it back, turning loan management over to the SBA, and other things too lengthy to mention. But there doesn't seem to be any thought given as to the consequences. It's a bull in a China shop approach. Some of the stuff they've done, like making workers write a document stating what they did the previous week in order to justify their continued employment, is absurd. They're treating them like grade schoolers.

Most of his immigration stuff I disagree with. If an undocumented alien is advocating violence or other illegal activities, then by all means, round them up and deport them. But it seems to me that they're declaring some people a security threat for simply exercising their first amendment right of free speech, like voicing their disapproval of support for Israel. If an undocumented immigrant has committed some crime other than overstaying their visa, then absolutely, shag their ass. But if they are law abiding, working and paying taxes, have a roof over their heads and aren't on public assistance, then help them get their immigration status squared away and leave them alone.

Getting government spending under control was always going to require some ruthless tactics. Not sure why Elon, the richest man in the world, is in charge of this. That part makes it look bad. It was never going to be easy to do. Neither Party seems to like to slow spending very much, but Republicans love to cut taxes while not cutting spending while telling us the increased business activity will pay for the cuts that never get paid for. But having a guy with hundreds of billions of dollars decide who gets to keep their maybe middle income jobs looks pretty damn terrible. Can you imagine getting fired from your paycheck to paycheck job that you use to pay your mortgage and support your family being eliminated by a couple of crazy billionaires that haven't had to live paycheck to paycheck in their lives? Looks absolutely awful.

It's not worth these stupid trade wars with allies or this push for Greenland. Focus should have been bringing allies together against China to force them to open their markets more if they want access to open markets in free nations. Not starting trade wars with allies that already have mostly free markets. China is stealing tech, using their size to bully neighbors around them, and want to use a Central Command Economy bolstering companies using tax revenue and government support to compete against companies in the free market which is unfair competition. It's another reason why America may have to push a socialized medical system because companies having to absorb the cost of medical insurance in America competing against foreign companies that can compete absent having to provide and manage medical and other benefits is going to create an unfair playing field for American companies as it already does for American car companies with the unions, massive legacy pensions, and inability to build a better cost structure to compete against foreign car companies or even domestic competitors like Tesla who don't have union labor and legacy pensions holding back their ability to invest in advancing car technology and manufacturing.

I can't believe the middle or working class can't find candidates a whole lot better and establish a political party to support their interests. Right now, they got two parties supporting the interests of wealthy corporate people aka the Republicans and wealthy environmentalists and general followers of leftist ideology aka the Democrats. Both of them out of touch with what working people need for help creating unaffordable living conditions that are driving the middle class lifestyle out of reach. Working class people need to support some leaders that can force some leadership into position to help them, but not sure how you do that when big money from special interests runs both parties.

Democrats versus Republicans is a bit like pro sports where millionaires fight billionaires. You have millionaire and billionaire leftists supporting Democrats to have their environmental and other leftist agendas pushed and billionaire Republicans who just want taxes cut and less government regulation so they can make more money. They are engaged in open political warfare using their money, while Mr. Working Class I make 60 to 80k a year guy is stuck in the middle of this trying to vote for some support that they don't seem to be getting very much of. If running for national elections requires millions, then how does Mr. Working Class guy get some representation? I don't know. Media is bought and paid for by rich people. Politicians are often bought and paid for or pursuing their self-interest.

Seems like the working class guy has reached a point where they are screwed.

[Spohawk5092]

get ready to pay more for everything as Trump tarriffs part 2 are just announced. If you thought inflation was bad, buckle up. What an idiot.

[Aseahawkfan]

Damn. These tariffs are insane. He fabricated tariffs against us that has no basis in reality. I wonder how many of his followers believe that trash.

I hope we have some kind of of insane stock market drop. Though he may want that to force interest rates down by causing a recession. As a real estate guy, he likes lower interest rates.

[River Dog]

Yep. Trumpflation is on its way. Complete insanity. He's slapping tariffs on Japan and Taiwan. Are they, too, sending illegals to us? What's the object? It's overseas trade that has been keeping prices relatively low.

And in addition to things costing more here, other countries will respond with tariffs of their own, making it more difficult for businesses here to compete overseas. Does he think it's the 1950's where we were the only country left standing that didn't have to rebuild its infrastructure?

[Aseahawkfan]

Yep. Trumpflation is on its way. Complete insanity. He's slapping tariffs on Japan and Taiwan. Are they, too, sending illegals to us? What's the object? It's overseas trade that has been keeping prices relatively low.

And in addition to things costing more here, other countries will respond with tariffs of their own, making it more difficult for businesses here to compete overseas. Does he think it's the 1950's where we were the only country left standing that didn't have to rebuild its infrastructure?

Prepare for insane inflation. Even if the tariffs worked, it would take years to build manufacturing capacity, cost billions, and the labor cost in America alone would increase prices to insane levels.

[c_hawkbob]

The Demented Cheeto Buffoon even imposed tariffs on the uninhabited Heard and McDonald Islands in the sub-Antarctic Indian Ocean, I'm sure the seals and penguins are just terrified. He also included Diego Garcia, a tiny rock in the IO that belongs to the US, whose sole inhabitants are a US military base. The only thing they export is whatever sailors buy at the PX.

[River Dog]

Yep. Trumpflation is on its way. Complete insanity. He's slapping tariffs on Japan and Taiwan. Are they, too, sending illegals to us? What's the object? It's overseas trade that has been keeping prices relatively low.

And in addition to things costing more here, other countries will respond with tariffs of their own, making it more difficult for businesses here to compete overseas. Does he think it's the 1950's where we were the only country left standing that didn't have to rebuild its infrastructure?

Prepare for insane inflation. Even if the tariffs worked, it would take years to build manufacturing capacity, cost billions, and the labor cost in America alone would increase prices to insane levels.

Not only that, but especially when you consider that he's cracking down on immigration, we don't have the labor force necessary to support our economy with solely domestic labor, in particular manufacturing jobs that are the biggest targets of these tariffs, jobs that our younger generations won't work at. We are dependent on overseas labor, outsourcing, etc.

The only thing that I can think of that would come close to rationalizing these tariffs is simply Trump's ego: I'm the biggest bully on the block and by God, you're going to know it! Now get on your knees and kiss the ground I walk on.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not only that, but especially when you consider that he's cracking down on immigration, we don't have the labor force necessary to support our economy with solely domestic labor, in particular manufacturing jobs that are the biggest targets of these tariffs, jobs that our younger generations won't work at. We are dependent on overseas labor, outsourcing, etc.

The only thing that I can think of that would come close to rationalizing these tariffs is simply Trump's ego: I'm the biggest bully on the block and by God, you're going to know it! Now get on your knees and kiss the ground I walk on.

All I know is Trump better make some quick deals or it's going to be a bloodbath. Only positive about Trump is he doesn't really need a great deal, just a deal he can tout as the "greatest trade deal" ever whether it is or not. I imagine the stock market crashing hard and possibly the economy will start getting deals done.

No one likes uncertainty, especially his business friends.

Then again for all I know his rich friends know this is coming and they're snapping up stocks for cheap. They may even be engineering a market crash so they can buy assets for nothing and get The Fed to drop interest rates so they can buy up all the property of all the laid off workers that will lose their houses in a bad economy.

The only people with money during economic crashes like this with massive layoffs will be the wealthy. They'll buy up cheap assets when the economy crashes.

Maybe a bit to Machiavellian for Trump, but maybe not for Trump and his allies. Who came out of the 2008 crash the best: the wealthy. Bought up cheap stocks, property, and other assets and made a killing when the asset prices rose again.

If The Fed drops interest rates if the economy crashes, then Trump gets his wish and can borrow cheap for building and his rich friends can use leverage for capital investments at higher rates of return like they been doing the past 20 years. Borrow at 0 to 2 percent on 10 percent plus margins basically making capital and profits free. If you're a company like Meta with a 36 percent net marginand you can borrow at 0 to 2 percent, why even use your own cash flow to fund your business. Just borrow and make a net 34 percent while stacking tons of cash.

An engineered economic crash to do another wealth transfer like occurred in 2001 and 2008 except by design.

[River Dog]

Not only that, but especially when you consider that he's cracking down on immigration, we don't have the labor force necessary to support our economy with solely domestic labor, in particular manufacturing jobs that are the biggest targets of these tariffs, jobs that our younger generations won't work at. We are dependent on overseas labor, outsourcing, etc.

The only thing that I can think of that would come close to rationalizing these tariffs is simply Trump's ego: I'm the biggest bully on the block and by God, you're going to know it! Now get on your knees and kiss the ground I walk on.

All I know is Trump better make some quick deals or it's going to be a bloodbath. Only positive about Trump is he doesn't really need a great deal, just a deal he can tout as the "greatest trade deal" ever whether it is or not. I imagine the stock market crashing hard and possibly the economy will start getting deals done.

No one likes uncertainty, especially his business friends.

Then again for all I know his rich friends know this is coming and they're snapping up stocks for cheap. They may even be engineering a market crash so they can buy assets for nothing and get The Fed to drop interest rates so they can buy up all the property of all the laid off workers that will lose their houses in a bad economy.

The only people with money during economic crashes like this with massive layoffs will be the wealthy. They'll buy up cheap assets when the economy crashes.

Maybe a bit to Machiavellian for Trump, but maybe not for Trump and his allies. Who came out of the 2008 crash the best: the wealthy. Bought up cheap stocks, property, and other assets and made a killing when the asset prices rose again.

If The Fed drops interest rates if the economy crashes, then Trump gets his wish and can borrow cheap for building and his rich friends can use leverage for capital investments at higher rates of return like they been doing the past 20 years. Borrow at 0 to 2 percent on 10 percent plus margins basically making capital and profits free. If you're a company like Meta with a 36 percent net marginand you can borrow at 0 to 2 percent, why even use your own cash flow to fund your business. Just borrow and make a net 34 percent while stacking tons of cash.

An engineered economic crash to do another wealth transfer like occurred in 2001 and 2008 except by design.

Yeah, that's certainly a possibility. I'm not one to subscribe to conspiracy theories, but there's not very many rational explanations. And you're right about economic crises. It's always the little guy that gets hurt the most.

As a senior, I'm worried about how older retired people living on a fixed income will fare during what is likely to be double digit inflation. Pensions and annuities don't have COLA adjustments, and the SS COLA doesn't address the things that older people rely on more than others, like food, drugs, and transportation. Inflation is one thing that can torpedo a retirement plan. That's the demographic that represents Trump's biggest support, so in some ways, they're getting what they asked for.

Trump has claimed that he's going to plow back these tariffs the government will be receiving in the form of some sort of rebate. It will be interesting to see how that works. Another edition of the COVID payments?

[c_hawkbob]

So now I find out he put tariffs on Ukraine but none on Russia? I know you guys like to phoo phoo the notion that he's a Russian asset but it keeps looking more and more realistic to me.

[River Dog]

So now I find out he put tariffs on Ukraine but none on Russia? I know you guys like to phoo phoo the notion that he's a Russian asset but it keeps looking more and more realistic to me.

At this point, I'm not phoo phooing any notion about what's motivating Trump. He has to know that he's cutting off his nose to spite his face. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out how devastating these tariffs can and will be to this economy.

The stock market took a nosedive this morning. The Dow is down 3.2%, S&P 4%, Nasdaq 5%. Even Ford Motor Co., which should be one of the beneficiaries of the tariffs, is down 4.5%. And there's some are saying that investors might be under reacting, that some think that Trump is bluffing and that this is just a scare tactic, that the tariffs will be short lived. The problem is that if Trump lets that inflation genie out of the bottle, it's going to be damn hard to get it back in. The Fed can somewhat boost the economy by lowering interest rates and encouraging more borrowing and with it spending, but that runs the risk of raising prices as it will reduce supplies. We could be in for another late 70's style stagflation.

I'm intentionally not looking at my IRA funds. I just hope to hell my financial manager has anticipated this.

[Spohawk5092]

sure glad I'm not invested in the stock market right now! Through the floor. The orange pile of s*** is destroying the outstanding economy he inherited. What an idiot. NO economist thinks these tarriffs are a good idea. Buckle up!

[River Dog]

sure glad I'm not invested in the stock market right now! Through the floor. The orange pile of s*** is destroying the outstanding economy he inherited. What an idiot. NO economist thinks these tarriffs are a good idea. Buckle up!

Even gold, which is supposed to be a hedge against inflation, is losing value. Unless you have your money sitting in a savings account, there aren't any hiding places.

[Aseahawkfan]

So now I find out he put tariffs on Ukraine but none on Russia? I know you guys like to phoo phoo the notion that he's a Russian asset but it keeps looking more and more realistic to me.

I definitely don't like this idea as it makes our intelligence agencies seem real stupid, in fact out entire country seems real stupid. I can't believe we're that stupid to allow Russia to plant a president in our nation. That would be a level manipulation that I find it very hard to believe is possible in America. Our political parties may suck, but they don't seem weak enough to be taken over by Russia.

So the first question I'm asking, is do we even do business with Russia at this point? Or are they completely cut off? As far as I know Trump hasn't lifted any of the previous sanctions on Russia and they are still persona non grata in the international business world. So there really wasn't a need to put tariffs on a nation we're not doing business with.

I will say this: If Russia is capable of installing a president in the United States then our intelligence agencies, press, and the opposing party can't find 100 percent, undeniable evidence of, then America has truly grown weak and pathetic. We don't even have a nation any more if Russia can install a leader in America because there are many countries more powerful than Russia.

I'm not ready to believe America has grown that weak myself.

Trump has been talking about tariffs from 30 years ago. I'm much more accepting of the idea it's just Trump being an idiot than I am ready to believe Russia can control America from Russia given we're the most powerful nation in the world. Even on the off chance Trump is a Russian asset, is the C.I.A. and F.B.I. and every other intelligence company so bad that they can't stop this? If so, we're in a lot of trouble in America, not just with Trump, but period.

That is the main reason I'm not ready to buy into such a theory, not because I think Trump is incorruptible. I can't believe America's military and intelligence community is that incapable. Just can't buy it.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not heavily invested in the market either. I haven't been since COVID. I'm maybe 10 percent invested, 90 percent has been in fixed asset investments. I did not trust the COVID market and had to let things unwind first. I have missed out on a lot of money making investments just due to the post-COVID run up due the government shoving a ton of money into the market to cause asset inflation with stocks benefitting from asset inflation. There is also the little bubbles like AI, weight loss drugs, and associated stocks that made the price look way too high. I've been burned by valuation before during the Tech Bubble bursting.

I'll tell you right now is looking much better to put your money in the market, much, much better. When the blood is flowing and stocks are dropping, buy the bargains in quality stocks. Then make money when The Fed cuts, liquidity improves, and the assets rise again. I knew it would happen. Wall Street needed a stock reset and this provides them a great reason.

That being said, I'm always sympathetic towards working people. Investing is a skill and most people don't learn it. They make their money working and using working man's retirement and investment tools. It's not great to build an environment that rewards mainly wealthy asset purchasers and leave the working man to work like crazy to pay for everything from the government taxes to the wealthy man's wealth buying products. Tax system needs to be re-oriented to benefit working people more, but hard to make happen when the wealthy own both political parties.

[Aseahawkfan]

I will say this: It doesn't much matter if Trump is a Russian plant or not if he is doing things that weaken America and show a lack of understanding of the world economy at this point in time, it's still going to have a very bad effect on America and the world economy.

Does Russia benefit from this chaos? Yes, insofar as it makes it easier for them to take Ukraine, but several administrations have been making it easy for them to take Ukraine. Has Russia infiltrated both political parties where they continue to take half-measures against Russia? Hard to believe, but I know this rumor existed a long time ago that Russia had infiltrated leftist organizations to destroy American culture. If this is part of a long-term Russian psy-op to weaken the Democratic Party by pushing an extreme leftist ideology and then infiltrating the Republican Party to push an extreme right wing ideology to divide the nation and install a puppet leader or a chaos leader, well mission accomplished and Americans are some giant idiots for letting Russia do this to us.

[I-5]

Rare check in, sorry I'm AWOL these days. No one can convince anyone at this point that Trump is a russian tool (he most certainly is compromised in my book), but it's irrelevant now. Bottom line is he is destroying this country's institutions, economy, and relationship with traditional allies. Just ask yourself, what would Putin want that Trump isn't delivering yet? I think he already dismantled the cyber security team, making it easier for an adversary to hack our infrastructure. Oh, he also tried to fire the key members of the nuclear safety team....in the name of finding fraud? My last brain cell died with that one.

For those that haven't checked their IRA. I checked mine 2 weeks ago and after a 25% gain the past year, it had lost 4% from Jan to Feb 2025. I don't dare check it now. The only problem is I was planning to start taking penalty-free withdrawals starting in January, but unfortunately we have this current leadership, so I don't know if I can really do that anymore without taking a huge hit. Thank goodness for these sound republican policies. I'll restrain myself from saying more.

[Aseahawkfan]

Rare check in, sorry I'm AWOL these days. No one can convince anyone at this point that Trump is a russian tool (he most certainly is compromised in my book), but it's irrelevant now. Bottom line is he is destroying this country's institutions, economy, and relationship with traditional allies. Just ask yourself, what would Putin want that Trump isn't delivering yet? I think he already dismantled the cyber security team, making it easier for an adversary to hack our infrastructure. Oh, he also tried to fire the key members of the nuclear safety team....in the name of finding fraud? My last brain cell died with that one.

For those that haven't checked their IRA. I checked mine 2 weeks ago and after a 25% gain the past year, it had lost 4% from Jan to Feb 2025. I don't dare check it now. The only problem is I was planning to start taking penalty-free withdrawals starting in January, but unfortunately we have this current leadership, so I don't know if I can really do that anymore without taking a huge hit. Thank goodness for these sound republican policies. I'll restrain myself from saying more.

You're retired? I thought you were a lot younger.

Some of you really need to do a thought exercise as to what it would require for Russia to put a compromised president into office. It wouldn't just be a matter of compromising Trump alone in some room. It would mean compromising both major political parties, all associates close to Trump, our intelligence agencies and military, and our entire political system at the highest levels.

It would mean that every major political figure with access to far more information than you, c-bob, or any laymen voter would have access to allowing it to happen. It would require collusion on a level unheard of for a foreign power to install a U.S. president in office that did their bidding. U.S. president is watched all the time, heavily vetted by both political parties, the press, every major American and allied intelligence agency would be watching for attempts to install a foreign puppet president, and then how would you give them orders? Trump is under a microscope. How exactly would Trump be given his "orders"? Guy been non-stop in the news for the past 12 years and on TV and a public figure for 20 plus years before that. For Trump to be a Russian asset would require collusion by powerful political figures in both parties to accomplish this end.

Even the idea that piss tapes would pressure Trump into serving Putin is kind of dumb given what has already been released by the U.S press on Trump form the "grab them by the P" tapes to the cheating with a pornstar and playboy model.

I'm not sure how you think it could have happened without powerful figures in Americas across the political and intelligence world figuring it out and stopping it. I'd love to hear the convoluted explanation for that happening. Not like Trump is some guy who has been hiding away worried about what people say about him. Man's been a jackass for 40 plus years now in the public eye. How would anyone even hide this association and control?

I'd love to see someone concoct me a scenario where every American intelligence agency fails to find this out and/or is colluding with Russia at the highest levels to allow them to take control of us in this manner. That would be a hell of a story and probably make for a great movie.

[Aseahawkfan]

Amazon is under 180 dollars a share. Cost of product will go up if they have to buy tariff goods, but Amazon is in America, but buying from Amazon will still happen. If America boosts manufacturing, they will still buy off Amazon. I can't see a way Amazon loses in this situation other than general decreased consumption which would affect anyone.

Tariffs, Amazon passes on to consumers.

Made in America, Amazon fulfillment centers located in America and will sell American goods.

Decreased consumption, Amazon is still the low cost seller.

Increased consumption, more people buy stuff off Amazon.

Amazon seems like they are in a no lose situation. Gotta grab some more.

[I-5]

ASF, I feel younger if that means anything. But I’m turning 59 this August.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cdjl3k1we8vo

Here is an article to fuel the Russian asset theory. No tariffs on Russia, though we do very little business with them.

[Aseahawkfan]

I really need to start buying stocks. I'm feeling an adrenaline rush from this drop. This is an insane market drop. I need to move money out of fixed income and start buying. I haven't seen stocks drop like this since 2022 or 2020. It's an insane drop. First time in a while stocks have started took cheap like you went to a fire sale at some great store with stuff you want. My goodness. what a drop. I have to move into position.

[I-5]

ASF, do you have a retirement account of some kind?

[Aseahawkfan]

ASF, do you have a retirement account of some kind?

No, a personal investment account. I never worked for a company that had a good retirement plan due to being sort of lazy, but really I hate working for other people. I have a tolerable job with a poor retirement plan. I never started a personal Roth because I want access to my capital including the returns without having to jump through any tax hoops. I've invested over the years as I enjoy it. While bouncing around on my education path I started with genetics and ended up in business. So I combined the two interests and do a lot of biotech investing along with other tech investing mixed with some solid interest bearing and dividend investments.

I watch a lot of business news and analyze a lot of stocks, but if you have question about an actual retirement account like an IRA or Roth or a 401k, Riverdog may know more than I as I have little experience other than reading on retirement accounts.

[Spohawk5092]

well MAGA, are you happy yet? EVeryone on Wall STreet has buyers remorse, as so many Repugs. If we are lucky the world will continue to use our dollar as the global stand by, but if we are lucky. I knew it would take something bad to happen to wake people up.

[River Dog]

ASF, do you have a retirement account of some kind?

Hey, an I-5 sighting! Hope you stick around.

[River Dog]

ASF, do you have a retirement account of some kind?

No, a personal investment account. I never worked for a company that had a good retirement plan due to being sort of lazy, but really I hate working for other people. I have a tolerable job with a poor retirement plan. I never started a personal Roth because I want access to my capital including the returns without having to jump through any tax hoops. I've invested over the years as I enjoy it. While bouncing around on my education path I started with genetics and ended up in business. So I combined the two interests and do a lot of biotech investing along with other tech investing mixed with some solid interest bearing and dividend investments.

I watch a lot of business news and analyze a lot of stocks, but if you have question about an actual retirement account like an IRA or Roth or a 401k, Riverdog may know more than I as I have little experience other than reading on retirement accounts.

IMO you should consider opening a Roth IRA. You're right, there is a 10% penalty for early withdrawals prior to turning age 59.5. But once you turn that age, you can withdraw money tax free.

The advantage of the Roth is that you pay taxes on any contributions, ie yours and/or any employer contribution, in the tax year they are made, but the earnings in the fund aren't taxed. Everything in the account, ie your contributions, your employer's contribution, and any increase in value can be withdrawn without paying any taxes after you turn age 59.5.

At the very least, once you turn 59.5, there's no reason not to open a Roth and start contributing to it. It's a good place to keep a nest egg.

As far as my giving I-5 any advice, he lives in Canada so my knowledge on the subject would be irrelevant to him.

[River Dog]

well MAGA, are you happy yet? EVeryone on Wall STreet has buyers remorse, as so many Repugs. If we are lucky the world will continue to use our dollar as the global stand by, but if we are lucky. I knew it would take something bad to happen to wake people up.

There's no one in this little group of ours that can be considered as part of MAGA. None of us, that I am aware of, voted for Trump.

But I do think that a lot of people got blindsided by these tariffs and might have voted differently had they had any idea they were going to be as extensive as they are. I certainly didn't anticipate them.

[Aseahawkfan]

IMO you should consider opening a Roth IRA. You're right, there is a 10% penalty for early withdrawals prior to turning age 59.5. But once you turn that age, you can withdraw money tax free.

The advantage of the Roth is that you pay taxes on any contributions, ie yours and/or any employer contribution, in the tax year they are made, but the earnings in the fund aren't taxed. Everything in the account, ie your contributions, your employer's contribution, and any increase in value can be withdrawn without paying any taxes after you turn age 59.5.

At the very least, once you turn 59.5, there's no reason not to open a Roth and start contributing to it. It's a good place to keep a nest egg.

As far as my giving I-5 any advice, he lives in Canada so my knowledge on the subject would be irrelevant to him.

I really hate my money in a restricted account. I don't have good matching from my employer. I feel like I'll be investing into retirement. I imagine I could start funding one and trading it since in about 6 years I hit the age where I can withdraw any amount without restriction?