Immigrant Children Taken From Familes

[RiverDog]

Alright, I'll acknowledge that I was wrong, at least to a certain degree. I do remember seeing the 2014 picture of detainees under Obama.

But it still doesn't change my fundamental point: This current problem is of Trump's doing. It all started because of his zero tolerance policy. They should have thought about the consequences before they embarked on this crusade of his. And the problem is far from over. It could take months, if at all, for Congress to pass a comprehensive immigration reform bill that would be acceptable to the POTUS. Congress can't decide who's going to pay for lunch.

[burrrton]

This current problem is of Trump's doing. It all started because of his zero tolerance policy.

If you insist on sticking to this stupid, debunked point, I'm going to assume you're too consumed with TDS to have an intelligent conversation- not like you.

For the last freaking time, no, it DIDN'T start with 'zero tolerance'- family separations and use of detention facilities have been going on for years. Zero tolerance made the problem worse and more apparent, but it didn’t create it.

Here:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politic ... 25764.html

They should have thought about the consequences before they embarked on this crusade of his.

Agreed!

And the problem is far from over.

No sht. That's because it's been going on for years and there are no easy solutions, especially considering one side has no interest in solving the problem short of effectively throwing the borders open.

[idhawkman]

Just to be clear what the zero tolerance program is, I'm going to explain how they did consider the consequences before implementing it.

The policy before zero tolerance was catch and release. There are two main points that Trump wanted to stop with the zero tolerance policy.

1. Child Trafficking. Since the number of assylum seeking family units is up 10x what it was a few months ago and many of the kids are being trafficked into sex slaves and sweat shops the zero tolerance policy ensures all adults charged with a felony will be adjudicated before they are released with the child. This was to help stem the flow of child trafficking.

2. Ever since Trump was elected he has had a policy to stop violent border crossers from getting into the US. You see him hold up the families who lost kids and loved ones to illegal aliens in his SOTU and host them at the white house and more.

This is another example of what non-comprehensive immigration reform looks like. Maybe he did save some kids from being trafficked, maybe he saved another family from the loss of one of their children. Maybe he save a number of them, but in the interim he's separating kids from parents at the border and not releasing the adults until they've been adjudicted. This is WHY CONGRESS NEEDS TO ACT and quit pointing fingers. Fund the family detention centers again, pass a law that makes it legal for Trump to keep families together until their cases have been heard, fund the judges to make the process quicker at the border and pass a law that reasonably makes it easier for people to legally immigrate. And yes, end chain migration, visa lottery and build the wall.

How friggen hard can that really be?

[Aseahawkfan]

Man, I hate these lying, manipulative media SOBs. This is why Amercans can't be assured of any factual reporting or politicking or anything for that matter. They are using a picture to attack Trump based on a total lie.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-says-little-honduran-girl-time-cover-not-024329900.html

[idhawkman]

Man, I hate these lying, manipulative media SOBs. This is why Amercans can't be assured of any factual reporting or politicking or anything for that matter. They are using a picture to attack Trump based on a total lie.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/father-says-little-honduran-girl-time-cover-not-024329900.html

The media is using photos from 2014 and this picture to dupe their subscribers into supporting an open borders situation. Its dishonest and literally fits the "Fake News" label that Trump has given them.

[RiverDog]

If you insist on sticking to this stupid, debunked point, I'm going to assume you're too consumed with TDS to have an intelligent conversation- not like you.

You guys are right. This is all Obama's fault.

Look, regardless of any policy decisions from previous adminstrations, Trump has always had the power to reverse these policies and stop the madness and until recently, did nothing but stand with his arms folded. It took a national outrage, from even his own family members, before he was brought to his senses.

He does not think things through before acting, a shoot first, ask questions later approach. Even this current EO caught officials by surprise and unprepared.

Ted Cruz wanted to hire 375 immigration judges to handle the backload of cases, but Trump blasted him for it:

In his afternoon speech, Mr. Trump dismissed as “crazy” a proposal by Senate Republicans to expedite processing of immigrant families by hiring hundreds of new immigration judges.

Rejecting a proposal by Senator Ted Cruz of Texas to increase personnel in immigration courts with the hiring of 375 new judges, Mr. Trump suggested that many of the immigration judges could be corrupt, and he said that some lawyers who appear in their courtrooms are “bad people.”

“They said, ‘Sir, we’d like to hire about five or six thousand more judges,’” Mr. Trump said in a long and rambling speech to the National Federation of Independent Business. “Five or six thousand? Now, can you imagine the graft that must take place? You’re all small-business owners, so I know you can’t imagine a thing like that would happen.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/us/p ... ilies.html

It's not clear to me how 375 turns into 5 or 6 thousand. We're never going to get ourselves out of this mess if he maintains that kind of attitude. It's no wonder that the level of support for his impeachment has reached Nixonian levels:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

[idhawkman]

You guys are right. This is all Obama's fault.

Look, regardless of any policy decisions from previous adminstrations, Trump has always had the power to reverse these policies and stop the madness and until recently, did nothing but stand with his arms folded. It took a national outrage, from even his own family members, before he was brought to his senses.

He does not think things through before acting, a shoot first, ask questions later approach. Even this current EO caught officials by surprise and unprepared.

Ted Cruz wanted to hire 375 immigration judges to handle the backload of cases, but Trump blasted him for it:

In his afternoon speech, Mr. Trump dismissed as “crazy” a proposal by Senate Republicans to expedite processing of immigrant families by hiring hundreds of new immigration judges.

Rejecting a proposal by Senator Ted Cruz of Texas to increase personnel in immigration courts with the hiring of 375 new judges, Mr. Trump suggested that many of the immigration judges could be corrupt, and he said that some lawyers who appear in their courtrooms are “bad people.”

“They said, ‘Sir, we’d like to hire about five or six thousand more judges,’” Mr. Trump said in a long and rambling speech to the National Federation of Independent Business. “Five or six thousand? Now, can you imagine the graft that must take place? You’re all small-business owners, so I know you can’t imagine a thing like that would happen.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/19/us/p ... ilies.html

It's not clear to me how 375 turns into 5 or 6 thousand. We're never going to get ourselves out of this mess if he maintains that kind of attitude. It's no wonder that the level of support for his impeachment has reached Nixonian levels:


https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

LOL, Shumer says he won't vote for any legislation and Pelosi said she won't negotiate. They want the issue not a fix. How are you going to get more judges through the Senate when the dems are dragging their feet approving any nominations from Trump?

So now you are saying that Trump acted too quickly with his EO? I thought you said he could fix it with a stroke of a pen just a couple days ago.

This is a complex issue that can be argued either way. If you keep families together, then you are subjecting the kids to being detained more than 20 days. Clearly that is in violation of the Circuit court's ruling I posted yesterday. If you separate the kids and hold them only 20 days and then place them with foster care, you are heartless and splitting families not to mention your point yesterday that parents are in Washington state and the kids are in NY. If you release the parents with the kids after 20 days, they don't show up for their court date and some (NOT ALL) commit violent crime against US Citizens. You are heartless to the plight of the Angel Families. If you deport them back to their home country, you are not only violating the law but also are heartless to their Assylum claims of being victims in that country.

So you see, the courts and congress have created this mess by kicking the can down the road and not dealing with it. Even Obama said that "he is the President of the United States , not the Emperor."

I guess you have to pick which heartless kind of person you want to be in the above scenarios. But I'm listening if you have a better solution to the problem.

[idhawkman]

River, I think you are getting bogus information on the impeachment of Trump. His approval ratings are where Obama's was at the same point in his presidency and there's no reason for impeachment. This is what has the Dems and the TDS Rino's at a fever pitch.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/trump-approval-rating-gallup-poll-obama-popularity/

Even the Huffington Post is acknowledging his approval rates.
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trumps-approval-rating-climbs-to-personal-best-tying-his-first-week-in-office_us_5b2819f1e4b0f0b9e9a3e920

Again, the Russia Collusion is falling apart, Stormy didn't work for them, the economy is booming, he's keeping his promises, he has decimated ISIS, he's negated the NOKO Nuke threat along with the Iranian problem, Syria is all but finished, he's moved the US embassy to Jeruselem like all other presidents promised but reneged on, he's got unemployment at all time lows, the Black community is waking up to how the dems controlled them, etc, etc, etc. At some point, you have to look at all the stuff you don't see reported and say, "hey, maybe I'm watching the wrong news."

Wait until he solves this border issue and turns it back on the feet dragging, "resist" democrats. I wonder what new Crisis they will throw at him then. It won't matter though, he'll fix that too.

[burrrton]

It's no wonder that the level of support for his impeachment has reached Nixonian levels:

There's a third of this country that will tell pollsters they want literally every POTUS impeached, but impeachment isn't decided by polls. Who gives a sht?

[RiverDog]

There's a third of this country that will tell pollsters they want literally every POTUS impeached, but impeachment isn't decided by polls. Who gives a sht?

A third? I call BS. Even Bill Clinton, who WAS impeached, only reached 29% in the opinion polls.

Of course, impeachement isn't decided by the polls. Neither are elections. But it is an eye opener as it does indicate the level of disgust that this POTUS has achieved if 40%+ want blood. It also does not bode well for Republicans in the mid terms.

Now Trump, after months and months of urging Congress to act, wants them to back off any immigration bills until after the midterms:

U.S. President Donald Trump urged Republican lawmakers on Friday to drop their efforts to pass comprehensive immigration legislation until after the November elections, which he hoped would bring more party members into Congress.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

And earlier, I saw how the AG said recently that they did not intend to separate families then they rolled a tape of his making a speech in which he said emphatically that immigrant families would be seperated from their families if they tried to enter the country illegally.

Sessions said in an interview with CBN News that the administration "never really intended" for families to be divided, according to a transcript of the interview. This comment breaks from what Sessions had said earlier in June during a radio interview with Hugh Hewitt, where the attorney general warned that undocumented individuals who didn't want to be forced apart from their children should not cross the border with them in the first place.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/jeff- ... ar-AAyYVE8

Even the First Lady has gone off the reservation, and is now sending some sort of cryptic message about not caring about something.

This Adminstration doesn't have a clue, no plan on how to proceed through this minefield. If you guys want to absolve Trump from responsibility in this frigging mess by means of citing a former POTUS, then be my guest.

[burrrton]

A third? I call BS. Even Bill Clinton, who WAS impeached, only reached 29% in the opinion polls.

*sigh* Ok, a third-ish?

"The 43% supporting Nixon's impeachment in that Harris poll, by the way, is much higher than the 29% who supported impeachment for President Bill Clinton in 1998. Or, for that matter, the similar number who wanted Presidents Barack Obama and George W. Bush impeached. As CNN's Grace Sparks writes, there's basically "a baseline of pro-impeachment sentiment for a modern president" and Trump far eclipses it."

Ignoring the quibble over a few percentage points and that 3-4% is probably within the MOE, the point is that a not insignificant chunk of the country doesn't give a rip whether impeachment is deserved or warranted, they just want the guy they didn't vote for gone, and the level of irrationality surrounding Trump (as demonstrated by even some of you in here) makes ~40% surprisingly low to me.

If you guys want to absolve Trump from responsibility in this frigging mess by means of citing a former POTUS, then be my guest.

RD, with respect, you need to get a fcking grip. You sound like you're about 48 hours away from seahawks4ever-level bed-wetting.

Nobody is absolving Trump (you're inventing strawmen). You just seem to have lost touch with reality discussing anything to do with him.

[burrrton]

Jeez, I can't figure out why the MSM has no credibility anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-out.html

[RiverDog]

RD, with respect, you need to get a fcking grip. You sound like you're about 48 hours away from seahawks4ever-level bed-wetting.

And it's your continued excuse making that's driving me there.

Seriously, though, the one that needs to get a grip is the POTUS. My biggest gripe isn't zero tolerance. I support the concept. My biggest gripe is that Trump doesn't have a clue, no coherent strategy, on how to go about implementing his policies. His own advisors and his own party aren't on board. He rips Ted Cruz, a conservative Republican in a border state, for wanting to hire 375 immigration judges to handle the backlog of cases his policy created then claims the request was for 5 or 6 thousand? And now wants Congress to table all efforts to come up with a bill until after the mid terms on the assumption that the R's will increase their numbers?

This is surreal.

[burrrton]

And it's your continued excuse making that's driving me there.

Pointing out reality isn't making excuses. There is plenty to criticize him for- stick to that instead of inventing things because you don't like him and/or are taking your talking points from some J-school flunkie at the NYT.

My biggest gripe is that Trump doesn't have a clue, no coherent strategy, on how to go about implementing his policies.

Fair!

[RiverDog]

Jeez, I can't figure out why the MSM has no credibility anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-out.html

And that surprises you? There's tons of mis-information being spread out there on both sides of the issue, including tweets from the POTUS and statements from his advisors. I just highlighted one of them, Jeff Sessions claiming that they never intended to seperate families.

[idhawkman]

Jeez, I can't figure out why the MSM has no credibility anymore.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... s-out.html

REally looks like that family is being persecuted and fleeing from their home country, huh? Its so bad, the wife left three kids and the dad behind and the dad says if they send them back it would be okay. Said mom is going for better economic opportunity which is not a reason for assylum.

The fake news really hung their hat on a bad representative on this one. Boomerang anyone?

[RiverDog]

Pointing out reality isn't making excuses.

I'll keep that in mind when I point out to the cop that has me pulled over for speeding the reality of someone else driving even faster.

[idhawkman]

Trump doesn't have a clue or how to implement them? I think you are badly mistaken. He's accomplishing more with his methods than the "traditional" methods accomplished in decades.

Asea pointed out that the war on drugs has failed. We can all agree that Immigration reform no matter how much it is touted by both sides is a failure. Tax reform had failed. The "New Norm" economy was grossly wrong. North Korea Denuclearization could actually happen. Iran is backing off of the Mediteranean. ISIS is crushed. Embassy has moved. Energy policy (remember $5.00 a gallon gas?) was a shambles. International trade has become a joke. And you say he doesn't have a clue? Get real already.

[RiverDog]

REally looks like that family is being persecuted and fleeing from their home country, huh? Its so bad, the wife left three kids and the dad behind and the dad says if they send them back it would be okay. Said mom is going for better economic opportunity which is not a reason for assylum.

The fake news really hung their hat on a bad representative on this one. Boomerang anyone?

Of course, there's going to be attempted abuses, people fabricating stories and what not. Are you trying to say that incident is representative of the whole?

[idhawkman]

REally looks like that family is being persecuted and fleeing from their home country, huh? Its so bad, the wife left three kids and the dad behind and the dad says if they send them back it would be okay. Said mom is going for better economic opportunity which is not a reason for assylum.

The fake news really hung their hat on a bad representative on this one. Boomerang anyone?

Of course, there's going to be attempted abuses, people fabricating stories and what not. Are you trying to say that incident is representative of the whole?

Its the worst case the fake news could come up with. Are you saying there's worse? Can you point to any of them if so?

I know this is a double edged sword for you because if you find one, I'll then ask you if that makes the country a chithole country and if not, why don't they stay there?

[RiverDog]

Its the worst case the fake news could come up with. Are you saying there's worse? Can you point to any of them if so?

How about Trump telling people that Ted Cruz wanted to hire 5,000-6,000 immigration judges when the actual request was for 750? Would that not be considered fake news?

[burrrton]

I'll keep that in mind when I point out to the cop that has me pulled over for speeding the reality of someone else driving even faster.

Someone driving faster than you doesn't let you off the hook for driving too fast.

Problem is, Trump is speeding, but you're trying to blame him for the 3-car pileup that took place last week.

He didn't institute the policy of family separation and detention facilities. You should be bright enough to find something for which he actually deserves criticism. He gives you plenty of opportunities (and to be fair, you seem to acknowledge his mistakes here, you're just having trouble limiting it because you want to call this Literally Nazi Germany™ or something).

[idhawkman]

How about Trump telling people that Ted Cruz wanted to hire 5,000-6,000 immigration judges when the actual request was for 750? Would that not be considered fake news?

Did you Read Ted's proposal?

And how is this in any way an example of persecution in another country. I think TDS really has a grip on you.

[RiverDog]

Did you Read Ted's proposal?

Yes, I did, and from some liberal rag called Fox News:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... posal.html

And Trump's angry response:

"Seriously, what country does this? They said ‘sir, we’d like to hire 5,000 or 6,000 more judges,” Trump continued. Trump's comments seem to contradict his stated desire to speed up deportations and address the waves of people crossing into the U.S. via the southern border.

Trump doesn't know what he wants, which is the jest of my argument. The man has no plan.

And how is this in any way an example of persecution in another country.

Is that a question or a statement? Did I say anything about persecution or are you responding to something else?

I think TDS really has a grip on you.

You know, I've been trying my best to keep from engaging in personal characterizations and slanderous remarks, and believe me, I have plenty of things I could direct at you and burrton that would piss you off, but I've been trying to refrain. In return, I'd appreciate some tolerance from you guys.

[RiverDog]

[Problem is, Trump is speeding, but you're trying to blame him for the 3-car pileup that took place last week.

He didn't institute the policy of family separation and detention facilities. You should be bright enough to find something for which he actually deserves criticism. He gives you plenty of opportunities (and to be fair, you seem to acknowledge his mistakes here, you're just having trouble limiting it because you want to call this Literally Nazi Germany™ or something).

I did not say that Trump instituted the policy of separating families, I said that it was his zero tolerance policy that was responsible for the current problem. But nevertheless, I admitted that I was wrong about family seperation not happening in previous adminstrations. Additionally, it was not me that compared Trump's actions to Nazi Germany, it was Cbob.

And as I told Idahawkman, I have been trying my best to keep this discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks, but you two are making it very difficult. If you want to discuss the issues, fine, I enjoy a hearty debate. But if you continue with your personal attacks, I'm out.

[burrrton]

I said that it was his zero tolerance policy that was responsible for the current problem.

Wait- is the "problem" in your view that this is simply too many families being separated?

If so, aren't you then implicitly admitting you're OK with merely thousands of them being so?

The problem in my view, and virtually everybody else's AFAICT, is that family separation takes place at all, or at least under any but the rarest, most exceptional circumstances. I assumed that's what was outraging you, too.

[edit- and sorry for the personal digs- not fair]

[RiverDog]

Wait- is the "problem" in your view that this is simply too many families being separated?

If so, aren't you then implicitly admitting you're OK with merely thousands of them being so?

The problem in my view, and virtually everybody else's AFAICT, is that family separation takes place at all, or at least under any but the rarest, most exceptional circumstances. I assumed that's what was outraging you, too.

[edit- and sorry for the personal digs- not fair]

Basically I agree with your view, although I'd say that there could be quite a few circumstances where children might have to be seperated from their parents. For example, a 17 year old that's a criminal themselves (smuggling drugs), an abusive situation, questions about their guardianship, and so on. But how ever you want to frame it, I'm essentially against the current methods being used at the border, both today and in 2014.

Although I wasn't asking for an apology, I appreciate it. One of the things I've noticed about my advancing age is that I've developed a thinner skin. I'm a grumpy old man.

[idhawkman]

I did not say that Trump instituted the policy of separating families, I said that it was his zero tolerance policy that was responsible for the current problem. But nevertheless, I admitted that I was wrong about family seperation not happening in previous adminstrations. Additionally, it was not me that compared Trump's actions to Nazi Germany, it was Cbob.

And as I told Idahawkman, I have been trying my best to keep this discussion civil and refrain from personal attacks, but you two are making it very difficult. If you want to discuss the issues, fine, I enjoy a hearty debate. But if you continue with your personal attacks, I'm out.

You are making it very difficult to discuss the issues Riv because everytime I ask you a question about the issues you ignore it and state that trump is wrong, you just aren't sure of what. At first he was wrong for ripping babies from families then it turned out it wasn't his policy at all. Then he's guilty of not thinking through the zero tolerance policy. So I ask you again, what should the policy be? Catch and release? If so, what do you propose to do about the Angel famlies that will result from that policy and the sex trafficking and slavery of the kids? I know you don't like to be associated with anything reflecting racism but if you look the other way on the human trafficking it is just as bad as the boats that came from Africa centuries ago. Maybe you prefer to send the assylum seekers back to their own country but if they are truly escaping persecution, that would be heartless, too.

So lets discuss the issue of what to do with these folks and what your stance on it would be because we can't just throw the borders open and let anyone and everyone in to the US. We can't support them, we don't have enough jobs for them, we can't feed them all, we can't house them all, we can't take care of their health care for them, etc., etc.

[RiverDog]

[You are making it very difficult to discuss the issues Riv because everytime I ask you a question about the issues you ignore it and state that trump is wrong, you just aren't sure of what.

That's BS. I've stated specifics in most of my posts. For example, when we were debating the wall, I said that I refused to believe that the same thing cannot be accomplished at much lower cost and without the symbolism by using drones, electronic surveillance such as motion detectors, lasers, etc. You just dismissed my argument by saying "they're already doing that". The fact is that illegal crossings are relatively low when compared to earlier in the century, almost undoubtedly as a result of the ever improving security technology we've been employing at the border. Take a fraction of the savings from not building the wall and apply it to enhancing this capability.

As an example of Trump not thinking things through, I referenced his AG making contradictory statements about the zero tolerance policy, made before and after they implemented it, that resulted in families being separated, and provided links to show what I was talking about. You're just not reading what I write, not taking note of the articles I've provided that support my arguments.

Take a look at my most recent response to burrton concerning child separation. I said that I could foresee a number of circumstances where it could justifiably occur, such as an inability to prove custodianship, a child that's a criminal themselves, using them to smuggle drugs, etc. If that's not being specific, I don't know what is.

So lets discuss the issue of what to do with these folks and what your stance on it would be because we can't just throw the borders open and let anyone and everyone in to the US. We can't support them, we don't have enough jobs for them, we can't feed them all, we can't house them all, we can't take care of their health care for them, etc., etc.

You can start by reading what I write, clicking on the links I've provided that help highlight my arguments, and cease with the personal characterizations.

[idhawkman]

So lets discuss the issue of what to do with these folks and what your stance on it would be because we can't just throw the borders open and let anyone and everyone in to the US. We can't support them, we don't have enough jobs for them, we can't feed them all, we can't house them all, we can't take care of their health care for them, etc., etc.

You can start by reading what I write, clicking on the links I've provided that help highlight my arguments, and cease with the personal characterizations.

So again, what's your position? Open borders, deport them without a hearing or incarcerate the kids with the adults for the full term until they are adjudicated?

[RiverDog]

So again, what's your position? Open borders...

I said that I was for zero tolerance, which means anything but an open border, but not if it comes at the expense of seperating families except as I noted in my previous response. Your question proves that you're not reading my comments.

...deport them without a hearing

Probably unconstitutional, and even if it wasn't, it would invite discrimination by minor officials, ie deporting anyone with brown skin, brown eyes, and black hair, anyone that can't speak good English, and so on. That's why we have a due process, even for non citizens.

...or incarcerate the kids with the adults for the full term until they are adjudicated?

Yes, providing that there are adequate facilities to handle them, but hire more judges (something Trump said he was for at first, then suddenly changed his mind and ripped Ted Cruz for requesting more) and give families preference over those that are arrested and unaccompanied by minors.

[burrrton]

"Wow- I didn't see this coming!", said no one, ever.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/12/mi ... -says.html

[RiverDog]

"Wow- I didn't see this coming!", said no one, ever.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/12/mi ... -says.html

I can't say that it surprises me. Those people are desperate, and some will resort to anything to get into the country. It underscores the need to revise immigration laws.

How long does it take, and how much does it cost, to run a DNA test to confirm their relationship? I'm not sure if it's viable, but that would seem to be a logical solution.

[idhawkman]

"Wow- I didn't see this coming!", said no one, ever.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/07/12/mi ... -says.html

I can't say that it surprises me. Those people are desperate, and some will resort to anything to get into the country. It underscores the need to revise immigration laws.

He was already in the country before when he brought in an 8 year old. It makes me think he is trafficking the kid and getting paid for it. Unfortunate for that kid because it is probably a very hard life ahead of it.

How long does it take, and how much does it cost, to run a DNA test to confirm their relationship? I'm not sure if it's viable, but that would seem to be a logical solution.

Trumps zero tolerance policy was suppose to discourage people from making that trek and trying to cross the border. The ACLU and the judge should be ashamed of themselves for condenming those kids to a life of slavery. Maybe they see it as future work where they have to represent the new "slaves" of America.

The DNA tests can be done very quickly - I believe there is a quick swab of both the parent's mouth and the child's mouth and then they do the tests. It is the shear number of tests that slow the system down though.

One of the reasons I like the wall is that it is permanent. E.g. the next administration can't just turn a blind eye and open the borders wide again. Put up the wall and force the immigrants to go through ports of entry. No different than going to a high school, college or pro football game. You can only enter at certain gates and you have a legitimate ticket/pass to get in.

[idhawkman]

As I predicted in this thread, catch and release only encourages more people to break the law and rush our borders.

I know the Dems are regretting their earlier decisions on this issue but with this new caravan coming up and already at 14,000 strong, they won't be able to ignore it 2 weeks before election day.

I love that the DNC has told their candidates not to talk about immigration but they won't have any choice with the situation where it is now.

[c_hawkbob]

You talk about Anthony spamming the boards on the football side with his #3 worship but I see that doesn't hold you back from spamming the OT section with your Trump worship ...

[idhawkman]

You talk about Anthony spamming the boards on the football side with his #3 worship but I see that doesn't hold you back from spamming the OT section with your Trump worship ...

Okay, if you think 2 posts in separate threads constitutes spamming unlike the 7 threads he started with the same link. Got it or is it you really didn't want to see this topic raise its head again?

Edited: That might have been a bit harsh, apologies Bob. I do love seeing Anthony say many times in many threads that he is "OUT" just to come back and "let me try and explain this again." I literally laugh out loud each time because he's already explained his position, people either agree with it or don't and if they don't he tries to explain it to them again after saying he's done.

I'm not quite as bad as that as I've never said I'm "out" and then come back to re-engage the argument. Was I gloating a bit in rehashing this thread, Yep! That said though, it is relevant with this new slug of humanity heading our way. I just heard on the radio that the Honduran President told VP Pence that Venezuela was funding this caravan. Who's shocked at that?

[Aseahawkfan]

They're never going to stop coming as long as that area of the world is a crappy place to live. We can spend more and more, build a wall, and they will still never stop coming. It's a nice news piece this caravan, but the reality is most of the illegal immigrants are people that come over on visas and stay here. A caravan like this is a softball on immigration. Easily stopped and dispersed once they arrive. It's the ones that come over legally, then don't depart that are the problem. This is going to keep on like this until the worst counties improve their conditions. You don't see people from Uruguay or Brazil making these trips. It's mostly people from Honduras, El Salvador, and Mexico, the worst places to live.

Just be glad we don't live next door to the Middle East. India and Europe are getting hammered by immigration from the Middle East for exactly the same reason.

[RiverDog]

You talk about Anthony spamming the boards on the football side with his #3 worship but I see that doesn't hold you back from spamming the OT section with your Trump worship ...

Okay, if you think 2 posts in separate threads constitutes spamming unlike the 7 threads he started with the same link. Got it or is it you really didn't want to see this topic raise its head again?

Edited: That might have been a bit harsh, apologies Bob. I do love seeing Anthony say many times in many threads that he is "OUT" just to come back and "let me try and explain this again." I literally laugh out loud each time because he's already explained his position, people either agree with it or don't and if they don't he tries to explain it to them again after saying he's done.

I'm not quite as bad as that as I've never said I'm "out" and then come back to re-engage the argument. Was I gloating a bit in rehashing this thread, Yep! That said though, it is relevant with this new slug of humanity heading our way. I just heard on the radio that the Honduran President told VP Pence that Venezuela was funding this caravan. Who's shocked at that?

I don't think you've been spamming the board in the same manner here as Anthony has in the main forum. What did he have, 6 threads w/o a single response? I certainly don't think the topics you've started were irrelevant.

But Cbob does have a point with your Trump worship. As many topics as we've discussed, I can't remember a single one in which you did not defend Trump to the hilt, and you bristled as if I were talking about a family member when I made mention of Trump's "banging pornstars", something I'm certain that you would have busted a gut laughing at had the subject been Bill Clinton. You have every bit of an obsession over DJT as Anthony has over RW.

[idhawkman]

I don't think you've been spamming the board in the same manner here as Anthony has in the main forum. What did he have, 6 threads w/o a single response? I certainly don't think the topics you've started were irrelevant.

But Cbob does have a point with your Trump worship. As many topics as we've discussed, I can't remember a single one in which you did not defend Trump to the hilt, and you bristled as if I were talking about a family member when I made mention of Trump's "banging pornstars", something I'm certain that you would have busted a gut laughing at had the subject been Bill Clinton. You have every bit of an obsession over DJT as Anthony has over RW.

I do defend Trump quite a bit, I don't run from that at all. I also have criticized him for some things, too. Taken as a whole, I think he has done more for everyday Americans than any other president I can remember.

That all said, What is wrong with banging porn stars? Keep in mind that Trump wasn't using his position as the "Most powerful man on earth" to persuade that lady to give him a snarlin' under the desk in the oval office. She definitely was not a niave intern and Trump was not the most powerful man in the world. He was a client to her business. Would I do that? Not since I've been married but when I was in Special Ops, I was the ultimate alpha male trying to start my harem, tribe, or what have you.

I know pretty much everyone's position on Trump and various different issues on this board. Unlike Anthony, I don't think you have your position just because I've poorly explained my position. I pretty much accept that it is YOUR opinion and mine is mine. I gave my logic and you (not just you Riv) gave your logic. Discovering that some document pusher somewhere in the bowels of government was found to have "missed a block or two" is going to convince me or you that our long held beliefs, values, etc are now all changed is folly and no amount of continued restatements of how he missed that block is going to change your opinion of Trump nor mine. And there's the difference.