Trump Impeachment Predictions

[RiverDog]

From the same article:
he change since May has largely come among independents and Republicans. About three-quarters of Democrats favor impeaching Trump and removing him from office, roughly the same as in May, while among independents, support for impeachment and removal has risen 11 points to 46% among independents and 8 points to 14% among Republicans.

Also, saying ‘some optimism’ doesn’t equate a touchdown dance. I’m still generally pessimistic about the process. Not sure how you got touchdown dance out of such a reserved statement, but whatever.

I probably should have stopped without adding the touchdown dance analogy.

I think we're all pretty much in agreement. This is the biggest threat to Trump's presidency since he was inaugurated, but it's still way too early to start carving an epitaph into his tombstone.

[I-5]

Agreed, Riv, but actually Trump himself is digging his own grave and speeding up the process, showing almost zero awareness of what is legal and illegal (imagine, the POTUS threatening a citizen with harm, and on Twitter. How is he not banned?) He’s gotten away with his shenanigans his whole life, but it’s starting to fall apart.

Whatever happens, I’m enjoying seeing people like Lindsey Graham and Stephen Miller being utterly ridiculed for their lame defenders of this fool’s behaviour. Chris Wallace made Miller look like the child that he is, Tapper fact checked Jim Jordan in real time and didn’t let him get away with his BS, but the best might be Kelly Anne’s hubby going right after Trump himself. Makes you wonder what kind of discussions go on in their home.

I also notice that with each new revelation (for example, it was revealed today that Pompeo was part of the call to Ukraine), Trump is so busy taking punches that he doesn’t have time do his usual gaslighting, which has worked with moderate success in the past. He’s getting hit with his own medicine.

[RiverDog]

Agreed, Riv, but actually Trump himself is digging his own grave and speeding up the process, showing almost zero awareness of what is legal and illegal (imagine, the POTUS threatening a citizen with harm, and on Twitter. How is he not banned?) He’s gotten away with his shenanigans his whole life, but it’s starting to fall apart.

I agree with all of that. Trump is a spoiled rich kid that has never had to take 'no' for an answer. He's a megalomaniac, drunk on his own power, and thinks he can say or do anything and get away with it.

But all of that doesn't matter. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, it hasn't affected his base to the point where enough R Senators will turn on him and vote to convict. There's a lot of Idahawkman's out there that will rationalize anything and everything that comes out of Trump's mouth or Twitter account.

Whatever happens, I’m enjoying seeing people like Lindsey Graham and Stephen Miller being utterly ridiculed for their lame defenders of this fool’s behaviour. Chris Wallace made Miller look like the child that he is, Tapper fact checked Jim Jordan in real time and didn’t let him get away with his BS, but the best might be Kelly Anne’s hubby going right after Trump himself. Makes you wonder what kind of discussions go on in their home.

Graham's from a deep red state that Trump won by 14%, so he doesn't have a lot to worry about. The Sens I'll be watching will be Collins from Maine, Cory Gardner of Colorado, Murkowski and Sullivan of Alaska, McSally of Arizona, Rubio and Scott of Florida, Portman of Ohio, Toomey of Pennsylvania, Johnson of Wisconsin. Those are some of the folks from blue or purple states that would most likely be facing pressure from their constituents if and when the tide begins (or continues to shift) against Trump.

Yes, it's an interesting time. It reminds me of the time that I wish I were a fly on the wall on the 2nd floor of the White House during the Lewinsky scandal so I could tune into some of the pillow talk between Slick Willy and Hillary talking about cigars. There's gotta be a lot of "WTF's" flying around the living rooms these days.

[Hawktawk]

Word breaks that mike Pompeo was on the Ukraine call. It’s getting fugly . They should all
Resign. Then you add the nut jobs trump and guliani on the news, trump
Calling for civil war. It’s a snowball rolling downhill. Worst, most inept corrupt president ever.

[RiverDog]

Here's some information, mainly for my friend Cbob, about responses related to questions related to supporting impeachment vs. supporting the inquiry:

Of the poll's respondents, an equal number—47%—said they do and do not think the president should be impeached and removed from office.

When asked if they support the impeachment probe opened by House Democrats, however, 52% of respondents said they do support the inquiry while 45% said they do not. The Quinnipiac University results were released Monday.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 822777002/

Although a 5% difference is less than I would have guessed, IMO it's still a significant enough difference to make a distinction between the two propositions.

[Hawktawk]

Pompeo now threatening to withhold testimony of key state department officials in the wake of revelations he was listening in on the call. News breaks that the walrus Barr has been globetrotting pressing foreign governments for information to discredit the mueller probe and prove some sort of cabal against trump . Barr admits he supposedly directed Trump to call foreign leaders personally to ask them for information following reports Trump had called Australia’s prime minister looking for dirt on the fbi and cia. Last but not least there’s another less well known whistleblower from the IRS saying pressure is being illegally put on the Handling of Trumps tax audit .....you can’t make this stuff up and if muellers investigation proved one thing it’s that these news reports were mostly accurate . It’s mind boggling the amount of Wall to Wall corruption in this administration.

[Hawktawk]

Just saw a poll showing only 40% of republicans believe Trump discussed Biden in the call even though the transcript says he did and he has publicly admitted it as well you just can’t make this up . Un friggin comprehensible

[I-5]

We are living in insane times of our political statem. The only positive I can see is that post-Trump, we may need to bolster tye Constitution against maniacs like this deranged and dangerous man, and worse, his enablers, from taking the country in their hands.

If Barr is doing what is being reported he’s doing, namely, enlisting foreign countries to attempt to discredit our own intelligence agencies’ findings that Russia meddled in our elections to assist getting Trump elected...does that not meet the definition of treason? Pompeo is obstruction Congress from doing its job, and Trump is threatening private citizens as well as civil war. These are all highly illegal acts. We’ll see if our government machinery really works in the next few weeks, but I dont see how these 3 can escape...and possibly Pence as well.

[Hawktawk]

New # this morning 46 to 43 in favor of actual impeachment and removal with 11% undecided. In other news Chuck Grassley said yesterday the WB had acted appropriately and should be protected. That in response to Trumps bluster and threats and talk of a coup and a civil war. Maybe there’s hope for America .

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ar-AAIcuCU
It just gets weirder and more suspect. In other news yesterday Trump publicly on camera asked for China's help to investigate the Bidens over some hedge fund deal, repeating a debunked conspiracy theory in the process. Can't make this stuff up folks.....

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnb7Kz

This number is basically turned on its head in the last 2 weeks since this broke and the hearings haven't even started yet. And it will be must see TV.
Doesn't look like the public is giving Trump the benefit of the doubt on this one and his psychotic rants including while hoisting the Finnish president aren't helping.

[I-5]

Just curious...what 'facts' does anyone even need anymore on this charlatan president? He's openly asking China to investigate his political rival. I can't imagine a clearer way to beg to be removed from office. Is there even anything Kellyanne or Lindsey or Hannity can do to spin this?

Pompeo, Barr, Pence are all caught in the web now. I guess Pence wasn't smart enough to not get dirty. To his credit, Trump knows how to make sure others go down with him.

There is nothing left to do but remove then indite this criminal.

Edit: if Pence goes down, then that leaves....hmmm

[RiverDog]

We are living in insane times of our political statem. The only positive I can see is that post-Trump, we may need to bolster tye Constitution against maniacs like this deranged and dangerous man, and worse, his enablers, from taking the country in their hands.

If Barr is doing what is being reported he’s doing, namely, enlisting foreign countries to attempt to discredit our own intelligence agencies’ findings that Russia meddled in our elections to assist getting Trump elected...does that not meet the definition of treason? Pompeo is obstruction Congress from doing its job, and Trump is threatening private citizens as well as civil war. These are all highly illegal acts. We’ll see if our government machinery really works in the next few weeks, but I dont see how these 3 can escape...and possibly Pence as well.

I'm not sure if it would require a Constitutional amendment or not, but I'd like to see them remove the Justice Department from the cabinet and make it responsible to our court system, perhaps have SCOTUS appoint the AG for a specified term. Trump's not the only POTUS that's abused the system.

[I-5]

I fully agree about removing the AG from the Cabinet. I’m nor sure SCOTUS is the right branch to appointed it, but I agree its been abused by too many president’s. What if it was an elected position? Or what if it was a Cabinet level position but appointed by congress with a 2/3 vote requirement?

[RiverDog]

I fully agree about removing the AG from the Cabinet. I’m nor sure SCOTUS is the right branch to appointed it, but I agree its been abused by too many president’s. What if it was an elected position? Or what if it was a Cabinet level position but appointed by congress with a 2/3 vote requirement?

AG is an elected position in WA, and it's abused as much if not more here as it is in DC. An AG candidate would be trumpeting their position on abortion, gun rights, immigration as campaign issues. I don't want a politician in that position.

Congress already has a say in cabinet appointments. It would take months to confirm an appointment if they were to make it a 2/3 vote. SCOTUS is the one branch of government that it supposed to be isolated from political influence, so it seems to me that an objective, non political appointment could only be done through that branch of government.

[Hawktawk]

Barr is absolutely complicit in the most corrupt chaotic administration ever and so is the republican controlled senate.. other than possibly Roberts I don’t have much faith if it comes down to Supreme Court rulings either.. As a concerned citizen I feel powerless watching democracy slipping away.

[RiverDog]

Barr is absolutely complicit in the most corrupt chaotic administration ever and so is the republican controlled senate.. other than possibly Roberts I don’t have much faith if it comes down to Supreme Court rulings either.. As a concerned citizen I feel powerless watching democracy slipping away.

I wouldn't be so sure that SCOTUS will line up behind Trump should an issue come before them. Even your favorite poster boy Bret Kavanaugh has voted with the liberal wing more than his conservative brethren. Chief Justice Roberts has recently expressed concern about the perception of the court as being just another political branch of the government.

Even though the evidence against Trump continues to mount including the recent announcement of another whistle blower, this time one with direct knowledge of the events, it appears to me that an impeachment proceeding that results in a removal from office isn't anymore likely now than it was a couple weeks ago.

[Hawktawk]

I wouldn't be so sure that SCOTUS will line up behind Trump should an issue come before them. Even your favorite poster boy Bret Kavanaugh has voted with the liberal wing more than his conservative brethren. Chief Justice Roberts has recently expressed concern about the perception of the court as being just another political branch of the government.

Even though the evidence against Trump continues to mount including the recent announcement of another whistle blower, this time one with direct knowledge of the events, it appears to me that an impeachment proceeding that results in a removal from office isn't anymore likely now than it was a couple weeks ago.

We may have to see about the scotus but I agree the Senate will not remove him from office if he's caught on film with a 13 year old boy in the oval office . MOF Putin may as well release the hooker film from the Moscow Ritz Carlton. The Trump base does not care what he does, 85% will always support him. Melania might care about the moscow thing but I doubt she would even turn on him while he's in office.

And though through multiple reports from those in the know the R Senators do care how erratic and corrupt he is and LOATHE HIM PERSONALLY they will NEVER PUBLICLY endorse removal. As Jeff Flake and others have said were it a secret vote perhaps as many as 35 Rs would defect .

But that trumptard base of ignoramuses or transactional one or 2 issue supporters would guarantee their defeat in a primary if they came out in public.There are estimated to be 4 or 5 that might cross the aisle and allow for a vigorous hearing of facts at trial rather than a moscow Mitch charade just killing it like he does every democratic bill.Thats a big deal and will put more pressure on these senators. But still, I dont care what is revealed Trump will shout it down, lie and demagogue men and women who are so much better than him and his bobblehead sycophants will echo his talking points and his adoring base will be energized and we might be stuck with him another 5 years no matter what that means for America.I think it would mean very bad things. Imagine Trump in a war or in a severe economic downturn...

I'll always be proud that I recognized very early on this guy was bad news but in my wildest dreams I never fathomed how bad it would be, especially that our co equal branches of government would fold like cheap suits and defend madness and total corruption vigorously.

[Hawktawk]

https://news.yahoo.com/key-republicans- ... 43100.html

And almost immediately after a phone call with Turkish strongman Erogadon, Trump orders US troops to abandon Kurds who have fought side by side with our forces against ISIS. I wonder what the quid pro quo was this time.Probably letting go of the investigation of Saudi Arabia over butchering a US resident and WAPO columnist in their embassy..

Does anyone other than a Trumptrard feel comfortable with this guy dealing with foreign leaders?? I'm sure the disgusting Lindsey Graham will go back into bobblehead mode soon just like he did on the killing of Khashoggi. What a joke

[I-5]

Geez, if Putin doesn't have full control of Trump by now, I don't know how much better things can be for him.

[RiverDog]

And though through multiple reports from those in the know the R Senators do care how erratic and corrupt he is and LOATHE HIM PERSONALLY they will NEVER PUBLICLY endorse removal. As Jeff Flake and others have said were it a secret vote perhaps as many as 35 Rs would defect.

I agree with that, and it helps explain why so many of them have taken a 'wait and see' approach rather than a carte blanc defense like Lindsey Graham has done. That type of politics disgusts me, that elected officials are more worried about their own political hides than they are the good of the nation. But let's not single out the R's. The Democrats aren't any better.

I'll always be proud that I recognized very early on this guy was bad news but in my wildest dreams I never fathomed how bad it would be, especially that our co equal branches of government would fold like cheap suits and defend madness and total corruption vigorously.

I'm not going to say that I expected or predicted the current climate, but I knew it was going to be a wild 4 years.

[Hawktawk]

Rd it’s true the Dems are not much better . Their defense of Clinton jumped the shark and set the table for what’s happening now although this is so much worse behavior by the potus , worse than Nixon. It’s the base that’s the difference for Trump right now . Nixon was at 55 % approval in his own party, 25% overall. Clinton was at 65% overall and 89% in his party. trump is around 40% overall but 89% in his party . In terms of support for impeachment however more favor it than with either Nixon or Clinton .

While this demonstrates how much the republics base has shrunk as a percentage of voters it’s that base that votes in the primaries, hence politicians abandon their very soul to get elected.

But sadly RD it says a lot about America in general that either Clinton and especially trump can be at 89% with any group.
We just don’t care about right and wrong and holding our leaders accountable , especially the most powerful man on the planet. Really sad.

[RiverDog]

In terms of support for impeachment however more favor it than with either Nixon or Clinton.

Trump's popularity in these impeachment proceedings aren't even close to Nixon's. Once Tricky Dick embarked on the Saturday Night Massacre where he fired his AG for refusing to follow orders and fire the independent prosecutor, his support dropped like a rock, and for months before he resigned, his job approval was between 25% and 30%.

Additionally, Nixon's party abandoned him. Barry Goldwater told Nixon on the eve of his resignation that even he was leaning towards voting for one impeachment resolution, obstruction of justice. Nixon was all alone. That is not the case with Trump, either with the public or his own party.

And as far as Clinton goes, the R's didn't get one single vote for impeachment in either the House or the Senate. It was purely a partisan proposition, which is why it failed and is exactly why Trump's proposition will fail.

[Hawktawk]

https://theweek.com/speedreads/870332/b ... hment-push
Not so fast my friend.And this poll is on Drudge network which was rock solid for Trump for about 3 years to the point I had quit reading it...

My point about support for the INQUIRY being higher isn't the same as personal popularity. Trumps overall popularity is higher than Nixon by a ways at this stage of the investigation, 40% to 25%. But as far as support for IMPEACHMENT its higher for Trump than at THIS POINT in the Nixon inquiry and has flipped about 20 points in 2 weeks including over 22% among republican voters.

And further erratic actions such as calling for withdrawal of our special ops from Syria paving the way for a bloodbath without consulting his brass, his intelligence services, political allies, the congress and our foreign partners in the region, bizarre tweetstorms etc are not helping.

The senate may indeed hold the line but we really haven't had open hearings yet and the public is abandoning Trump including now 3 in 10 republicans meaning his impeach number is upside down to his approval number in the party which is in the high 80% range. If it sinks to the point Senators realize they are damned if they do and damned if they dont will they really walk the plank and flush whatever amount of integrity they have left to stand with a guy the majority of america wants gone ?? Will they be willing to lose their job as punishment for supporting this criminal and their legacy as well for the same reason?

It's not over. This isn't Clinton and Lewinsky. Much more like Nixon.

[I-5]

As of today, we are at 58% in favour of impeachment vs 38% against. At what point would it take the Senate dam to break?

Hopefully soon, before this con-president gives away more to Putin.

[RiverDog]

As of today, we are at 58% in favour of impeachment vs 38% against. At what point would it take the Senate dam to break?

Hopefully soon, before this con-president gives away more to Putin.

If you're looking at the same poll I am, it's not 58% that support impeachment, it's 58% that support the inquiry. We're still just under 50% of those that actually support removal from office:

The poll finds that, by a margin of 58 percent to 38 percent, Americans say the House was correct to open the inquiry. Among all adults, 49 percent say the House should take the more significant step of impeaching the president and calling for his removal from office. An additional 6 percent say they support the inquiry but do not favor removing Trump from office, with the remainder undecided about the president’s fate. The results among registered voters are almost identical.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

[c_hawkbob]

As of today, we are at 58% in favour of impeachment vs 38% against. At what point would it take the Senate dam to break?

Hopefully soon, before this con-president gives away more to Putin.

If you're looking at the same poll I am, it's not 58% that support impeachment, it's 58% that support the inquiry. We're still just under 50% of those that actually support removal from office:

The poll finds that, by a margin of 58 percent to 38 percent, Americans say the House was correct to open the inquiry. Among all adults, 49 percent say the House should take the more significant step of impeaching the president and calling for his removal from office. An additional 6 percent say they support the inquiry but do not favor removing Trump from office, with the remainder undecided about the president’s fate. The results among registered voters are almost identical.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... story.html

Point of clarification: "Impeachment" does not equal removal from office, so if you'r looking for the percentage of people that "support impeachment" it would be somewhere between supporting the inquiry and supporting removal from office. That number is entirely likely to be north of 50%.

You're running out of pump the brake pills there bro.

[Aseahawkfan]

I honestly stopped caring. If he gets removed, fine. If he doesn't fine. I won't vote for him. Even if I don't consider Trump the worst or most corrupt president, he is the most annoying president in my lifetime. Part of his job is at least try to make us look good and he doesn't do that. Instead he just fires off trash talk all the time. Didn't show his tax returns like tradition. Flouts everything he's told by his advisers and fires them when they disagree. Even if he personally isn't racist like he argues, he spins his drivel for racist anti-immigrant people to get their votes encouraging their beliefs. His trade war is not working and dumb at this point not to mention anyone noticing can see he is giving exceptions to big tech hand over fist which makes it so China doesn't really feel much of a bang considering their making a bunch of their money from American big tech. Why give exceptions when American Tech is your most powerful chip in forcing capitulation?

I don't mind the Syria thing. Trump's not a war guy. We shouldn't have been there to begin with. Putin does not benefit from our troops leaving if Turkey takes over. Turkey is no friend of Russia. And Syria is Russia's only player. Maybe if Putin puts more troops in to repel Turkey, we'll see. As far as the Kurds, they are not our great friends. They just want stuff from us.

As far as I'm concerned, Trump can leave or stay. I stopped caring. Both sides are lying weasels that are willing to debase themselves and fool themselves to believe whatever comes out of their chosen party's mouth or whichever media supports their confirmation bias. That's just how it is and likely how it is has always been on volume 11 because of the modern media delivery systems.

[RiverDog]

Point of clarification: "Impeachment" does not equal removal from office, so if you'r looking for the percentage of people that "support impeachment" it would be somewhere between supporting the inquiry and supporting removal from office. That number is entirely likely to be north of 50%.

You're running out of pump the brake pills there bro.

It's been my experience that the majority of American adults, including some otherwise very intelligent folks, do not understand that there's a difference between impeachment and removal from office. Most assume that they are one and the same, so in order to correct that impression, any poll must make that difference clear or the results will be tainted.

Not having the actual poll question available, I have to take the statement in the article for what it says, which is:

49 percent say the House should take the more significant step of impeaching the president and calling for his removal from office.

That suggests to me that the respondents to that question understood it to mean removal from office and that 58% of the respondents favored an inquiry.

Having seen several of these polls come out, it seems that there's about a 6-10% difference between those that favor an inquiry and those favoring removal from office, and the results from this poll fall in line with that observation.

[I-5]

For the record, I know full well impeachment does not equate with removal from office. I know that if the House votes to impeach, the GOP-controlled Senate must hold a trial, but gets to set the rules, meaning they could easily find a way to dismiss it. Which is exactly why I said I was pessimistic earlier, Riv. See?

Having said that, the new poll numbers are significant and meaningful, esp since this is not a criminal process but a political one.

You can keep pumping the brakes, but you don't need to do it for my behalf. Thanks.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's been my experience that the majority of American adults, including some otherwise very intelligent folks, do not understand that there's a difference between impeachment and removal from office. Most assume that they are one and the same, so in order to correct that impression, any poll must make that difference clear or the results will be tainted.

Not having the actual poll question available, I have to take the statement in the article for what it says, which is:

49 percent say the House should take the more significant step of impeaching the president and calling for his removal from office.

That suggests to me that the respondents to that question understood it to mean removal from office and that 58% of the respondents favored an inquiry.

Having seen several of these polls come out, it seems that there's about a 6-10% difference between those that favor an inquiry and those favoring removal from office, and the results from this poll fall in line with that observation.

The majority of adults don't know what their government does in their name. Even if they do know, they can't often stop it.

You see this Hong Kong trash and we and the rest of the world just don't care enough to do anything real about it. China gets to screw them to the wall and force Communist rule on them, while we all sitting around pretending to be outraged with no real action taken.

[RiverDog]

For the record, I know full well impeachment does not equate with removal from office. I know that if the House votes to impeach, the GOP-controlled Senate must hold a trial, but gets to set the rules, meaning they could easily find a way to dismiss it. Which is exactly why I said I was pessimistic earlier, Riv. See?

Having said that, the new poll numbers are significant and meaningful, esp since this is not a criminal process but a political one.

You can keep pumping the brakes, but you don't need to do it for my behalf. Thanks.

I wasn't suggesting that you or any of the other forum participants don't know the difference between impeachment and removal from office, to the contrary. IMO all the posters in this thread have a very good understanding of the process. My point was as it relates to these poll questions, that if they don't make it clear what they are talking about that it's likely to produce tainted results.

My first preference is that we vote the POS out of office in November of 2020. I'm not as anxious as some of you are to overturn the results of an election. We're not that far from the election to where we can't tough out these next 15 months like we have the past 33. My second preference would be to have him removed via the impeachment process, but only if they're sure they can get him. What I don't want to see happen is for the Democrats to impeach him then fail to convict him in the Senate.

The polls are significant, but we differ on what the numbers mean. The first 10% or so movement in the percent that support the starting of an inquiry and removal from office is the easiest. That's made up primarily of conservative Democrats and independent voters. The further south those numbers go, the closer we get to Trump's base, and it will be exponentially more difficult to move the needle down into the territory where enough R Senators will have enough political cover to give up Trump. Wake me up when his job approval drops to 35% and those supporting removal from office are near 60%.

[Hawktawk]

And in the last few hours Gordon Sundlan E.U. ambassador with no official Ukrainian responsibility who was caught in a series of texts discussing the quid pro quo was ordered by state not to testify . Later in the day the WH issued a letter to congress saying they will not comply with this inquiry any more and demanding the Dems drop it . It’s clear obstruction of congress, really just a continuance over years now. It’s a losing strategy when a clear majority including a number of republicans want this inquiry but my guess is it’s so bad they have no other choice.

So here we are. It’s a full blown constitutional crisis. If Trump is allowed to do these things another year he might again win with help from foreign countries . We can’t wait for this scumbag corrupt lunatic any more. He needs impeached ASAP then let these senators decide what side they are on.

[Aseahawkfan]

Geez, if Putin doesn't have full control of Trump by now, I don't know how much better things can be for him.

Why don't you explain to us all what Putin is getting out of all this? Let's see your grasp of how world politics works. Let's see you twist this into some kind of benefit for Russia.

[RiverDog]

So here we are. It’s a full blown constitutional crisis. If Trump is allowed to do these things another year he might again win with help from foreign countries . We can’t wait for this scumbag corrupt lunatic any more. He needs impeached ASAP then let these senators decide what side they are on.

A Constitutional crisis? How is the Constitution being violated? If Trump refuses to comply with a Congressional subpoena, they can take it to the Supreme Court. There is nothing that Trump has done that would pre-empt the Constitution.

The last time I heard the term "Constitutional crisis" thrown around was when John Chancellor of NBC used it after the Saturday Night Massacre when Nixon fired his AG for not following orders by refusing to fire the special prosecutors. That was an over dramatization then just as you're over dramatizing above. The Constitution worked pretty well in that case as it went to SCOTUS which ordered Nixon to comply with Congresses' subpoena and led to his eventual resignation.

[c_hawkbob]

Oh come on, subverting the constitutional process is exactly what Trump is attempting to do, and with the way he's stacked the courts we just may actually be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis.

[RiverDog]

Oh come on, subverting the constitutional process is exactly what Trump is attempting to do, and with the way he's stacked the courts we just may actually be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis.

Attempting to do? And we may be on the cusp? Hawktalk's statement was a little more definitive. I want someone to tell me exactly what part of the Constitution that Trump has successfully subverted that would justify the statement that we ARE in a Constitutional crisis.

And as I said before, I wouldn't be so sure that the courts will line up behind Trump, and even if they do, the Constitution was followed in filling those vacancies.

You guys are being melodramatic. Let's wait and see how all this shakes out before we run around saying that the sky is falling.

[I-5]

Why don't you explain to us all what Putin is getting out of all this? Let's see your grasp of how world politics works. Let's see you twist this into some kind of benefit for Russia.

No one, including you or myself, is an expert on the Mideast. But it doesn't take much to know that the less US presence in the Mideast, the better for Putin, no matter who Turkey (rebels) and Russia (Assad) are aligned with. Russia loves their puppet.

[idhawkman]

To no one's surprise, he won't be impeached because Pelosi and Shift have so screwed up the process along with the whistleblower and the ICIG that there's no way any of this is viewed as legitimate. Pelosi won't call for a vote in the House because the "at risk" freshmen she gained will not survive re-election if they go on record for impeachment. The WH won't comply with the biased process that Pelosi and Schiff are persuing and it will drag out in the courts. The House and the dems will not want this to go into the election year because many of the 2020 dem contenders are senators and they won't want to be tied up in hearings on Captiol hill instead of campaigning although Biden would love this since Bernie and Warren would be part of those tied up in the hearings. (along with Harris, booker, Klobachar, etc).

"IF" Pelosi ever does hold a vote by the house, the Republicans would then get subpoena powers too and be able to cross examine witnesses, etc. and that would be worse for the dems than just dropping it all. In the meantime, the IG's FISA abuse report is due out within 2 weeks showing what the Obama administration did and news today shows that the Durham investigation is expanding which is a clear indication that criminality has been uncovered since Durham who has prosecuted CIA, FBI, Republican and Dems alike doesn't ask for additional help when there's no there, there. NOTE: Since Schiff's office met with the whistleblower before and he claimed he hadn't met with them, Schiff would then become a material witness to the case and therefore would not be able to preside over the inquiry. Also, last week when the ICIG was asked why he back dated the modification to the whistleblower forms to cover the phone call he refused to answer. This will come out if the transcripts are released unredacted.

This whole charade is nothing more than the dems trying to get in front of the FISA abuse report and the Durham investigations and now that the WH has decided to fight this out in court through the separation of powers prerogative the dems are in a box and there's not going to be any way out of that box.

As I see it, the President is giving the dems all the rope they need right now before he hangs them from their own ineptness.

[idhawkman]

Oh come on, subverting the constitutional process is exactly what Trump is attempting to do, and with the way he's stacked the courts we just may actually be on the cusp of a constitutional crisis.

Kind of sounds like what the republicans have been saying for years. Obama did Trump and the repubs a huge favor by leaving so many federal judgeships unfilled, huh?