Trump Impeachment Predictions

[Aseahawkfan]

No one, including you or myself, is an expert on the Mideast. But it doesn't take much to know that the less US presence in the Mideast, the better for Putin, no matter who Turkey (rebels) and Russia (Assad) are aligned with. Russia loves their puppet.

No, I am rather educated on the Middle East. I have been studying it for years. You're Mr. Hypocrite Forgetful when it suits your beliefs I see.

No, less US presence in the MIddle East does not help Putin. It does absolutely nothing for Putin. The only country Russia holds much power in is Syria and Syria isn't very prominent in the Middle East. Russia is not a welcome presence in the Middle East. Middle Eastern nations will never make for great allies as has been proven time and time again when we send them money, military aid, and overlook all their scumbaggery while the majority of world terrorism still comes from the Middle East including the biggest terrorist attack in U.S history completed by a Saudi named Osama Bin Laden whose family we still maintain friendly contact with.

I love how you switch up your viewpoint because you don't like Trump. Even when it has been clearly illustrated the Syrian Rebels are backed by Saudi Arabia due to their Sunni Wahhabi ties against the Iranian backed Alawite Assad family. Remember those Saudi guys? The ones that killed Khashoggi the journalist everyone complained about for a few months, then forgot, including the Democrats. I guess you forgot about it too since you now feel we should keep helping the Saudi backed rebels to help expand Saudi control in the Middle East because in your mind that goes against Putin.

Now you're basically siding with the Republican warhawks who want to maintain a presence in Syria and keep fighting so the Kurds can create an independent nation and screw us over once their Islamic ruled government decides we're the bad guy.

You switch up your beliefs by which president you hate to fit the narrative in your mind? Then consider yourself a reasonable person even though you've embraced a massive amount of hypocrisy.

Staying in the Middle East is a no win situation, period. So many people have said it for years. It hasn't changed. They are not good allies. The most we can do is keep oil as controlled as possible by maintaining our agreements with Saudi Arabia to keep the US dollar as the reserve currency. When Saudi Arabia is your best ally in the Middle East not named Israel, and their citizens mounted the worst terrorist attack in history and do all kinds of evil crap we don't even notice unless Turkey is making a power move, then you don't have friends in the MIddle East. You have nations using you to boost their power.

Why don't you get Canada to help Syria, I5? Get your special new home to step up to the plate and help Saudia Arabia take control of Syria. I'm sure they're up to the task. Trudeau is such a good guy. Or maybe you can talk Europe into not exporting oil from Russia which helps Putin far more. I forgot such an educated viewer of foreign policy who is so up to date on what benefits Putin would have known the European Union gets a lot of oil and natural gas from Russia. I guess they're just much paid off by Putin and his guys too. My bad. It's just Trump that is the Russian spy, not all those goodly Europeans who buy all that oil and gas from Russia even after the Ukraine was taken. Of course not.

[RiverDog]

To no one's surprise, he (Trump) won't be impeached....

Thanks for the tip! Based on your past record, you're predictions are as good as gold. I'm heading to Las Vegas in a couple of weeks, so maybe I can find a bookie that will take a bet on Trump getting impeached. No matter what the odds, I'll lay down a bunch on Trump having to stand trial in the Senate.

And by the way, welcome back!

[I-5]

You are delirious, ASF. What side switch did I ever make? I've never even weighed on any side in Syria on this forum ever. Having said that, I've always been in support of the Kurds, so I've never changed in that regard.

Do you have a job related to the Middle East policy that gives you insider information?

[Hawktawk]

Kind of sounds like what the republicans have been saying for years. Obama did Trump and the repubs a huge favor by leaving so many federal judgeships unfilled, huh?

Obama left judgeships unfilled because Moscow Mitch wouldnt even bring them up for a vote, kind of like he did with Merrick Garland. Get a clue.

And as for the house voting to impeach formally giving the most corrupt administration in history the right to cross examine witnesses it does no such thing in the house. They already have that right in the senate in the actual trial once the congress rightfully impeaches this abomination. Frankly I agree they should take a full vote on it but I see the R strategy. Put em on camera saying Yay or Nay and see how this breaks and maybe or maybe not have campaign fodder in house races. I think its a loser based on the fact this was a criminal treasonous attack on a guy who CRUSHES Trump in national and battleground polls meaning far more americans support him than Trump. This stuff was never supposed to see the light of day but it has and it's not good for Trump on any level. Oh then there's this to bolster my point....

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-ne ... mpeachment.

Read it and weep Trumptard, thats Trumptard TVs poll
Daily support grows for doing the right thing. Now I'm still in agreement with RD and you that the senate will likely walk the plank for the worst, mose dysfunctional mentally unstable POTUS ever which may mean the end of American democracy as we know it but let's see how a few more weeks of tweeting, saying ridiculous unhinged things on camera and stonewalling an investigation 58% of americans favor and even 28% of republicans as well works out. Couple that with his idiotic and financially motivated decision to abandon brave kurds who did the heavy lifting against ISIS which has enraged even his most bobblehead sycophants like Graham and Moscow Mitch. The disconnect between opposing a grotesquely inhumane desertion of those who saved thousands of American lives while losing 12k of their own and rolling out the red carpet for more collusion that occurred the day after Mueller testified before the congress is astounding but WTF.

Impeach this A hole and let these Senators vote up and down against the will of a solid majority of americans and defend their 24 seats next november . Bring it on...

[RiverDog]

Impeach this A hole and let these Senators vote up and down against the will of a solid majority of americans and defend their 24 seats next november . Bring it on...

Solid majority? Last poll I saw showed 49% in favor of removal from office. Or is there a poll I missed somewhere?

[I-5]

Solid majority? Last poll I saw showed 49% in favor of removal from office. Or is there a poll I missed somewhere?

Riv, it might be a little early to call it a 'solid' majority, but it is a majority at the very least. Significantly, the poll numbers reflect 51% who want him impeached AND removed from office. Equally surprising is that the poll was run by Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-ne ... mpeachment

Trump is busy attacking his favorite news outlet as we speak.

[RiverDog]

"IF" Pelosi ever does hold a vote by the house, the Republicans would then get subpoena powers too and be able to cross examine witnesses, etc.

The Constitution is very explicit regarding who controls the impeachment process and exclusively a function of the Legislative branch, not the Executive or Judicial branches. From Article 1, Sec. 2 of the Constitution:

The House of Representatives shall chuse (choose) their Speaker and other Officers; and shall have the sole Power of Impeachment.

A 1993 US Supreme Court case around the impeachment of federal Judge Walter Nixon upheld this finding, saying the courts would not weigh in on Congress’s impeachment procedures because it could violate the separation of powers.

Basically the House makes their own rules regarding impeachment, as does the Senate should there ever be a trial.

The only thing Trump could achieve in using these lawyer tricks by raising procedural complaints would be to sway public opinion and use a delaying tactic to stretch out the process until the 2020 primaries.

[RiverDog]

Solid majority? Last poll I saw showed 49% in favor of removal from office. Or is there a poll I missed somewhere?

Riv, it might be a little early to call it a 'solid' majority, but it is a majority at the very least. Significantly, the poll numbers reflect 51% who want him impeached AND removed from office. Equally surprising is that the poll was run by Fox News:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-ne ... mpeachment

Trump is busy attacking his favorite news outlet as we speak.

Actually it's not a majority at all. Polls have an error margin of 3-5% or so, meaning that it's not far enough past 50% to call it a majority. let along a solid majority. A more accurate characterization would be that public opinion is split.

Take a look at the fine print at the bottom of those polls. Fox News does not do their own polling. They hire two firms that jointly run the surveys for them. It's as non biased as any poll in the business.

[I-5]

Point taken. It does show a trend in that it wasn't a split a few days ago. Which way it will go from here, no one knows.

[c_hawkbob]

Actually it's not a majority at all. Polls have an error margin of 3-5% or so

You are really reaching. If you read the whole article from Faux News it's clear that there is not only a majority but that the trend in virtually every single group polled has shown significant movement away from Trump. If the margin of error is not surpassed yet it's only a matter of time (less than a week is my guess) until it will be.

You keep on clinging to whatever it is you're clinging to though, I can wait.

[Aseahawkfan]

You are delirious, ASF. What side switch did I ever make? I've never even weighed on any side in Syria on this forum ever. Having said that, I've always been in support of the Kurds, so I've never changed in that regard.

Do you have a job related to the Middle East policy that gives you insider information?

No. I'm just an American voter who likes to actually know what's going on because it is my job to govern my nation. That duty has been given to me by the Constitution. To do so, I have to learn as much as possible about what's going on to make sure I vote the right way. It's unfortunate that my nation does not provide me a good candidate to vote for and the United States press is extremely biased so we Americans are not given good information to make a quality choice unless we do research ourselves.

So I took the time to do a lot of deep research on the Middle East since the 2001 terrorist attack because I didn't buy into the "They hate our freedom" narrative sold by Fox News and other media outlets as they pushed for war in the Middle East. After doing a lot of reading on the Middle East, I've come to the conclusion we really have no business being there. The only reason we're there is for control of oil. I'm honestly not even sure that we would help Israel much if the oil wasn't there. I'm thinking we would treat the Middle East like we do Africa if they did not have a lot of oil.

So when Trump decides to pull us out, I don't cry about it and think Putin will benefit. He'll have about as much luck in the Middle East as we have had. Russia does not have a great history with Middle Eastern Muslim nations either. It could cost them more in manpower and money to make any headway for an ally that would not be very good to them. So let them have them if Putin is stupid enough to step in to that snake nest.

By the way, all these crying Republicans talking about abandoning the Kurds should remember we "abandoned" the Kurds back in 1990 as well during the first Iraq War. The Kurds fight on their own behalf. They will take aid any time we offer it. Just as they will turn on us and leave any time they don't need us or want to become involved in our affairs. I had the pleasure of working with a Shia Kurd for over a year. He did a nice job breaking down the Kurdish viewpoint, goals, and how their leadership worked. The Kurds are just another group looking to use us to boost their power in that region of the world. And we need to become less involved with that area of the world as they have not proven to be great allies, so no use backing another MIddle Eastern player that is against another of our allies in Saudi Arabia. That creates unnecessary conflict and problems for our diplomats who have to keep the Head Snakes happy in Saudi Arabia.

[RiverDog]

Actually it's not a majority at all. Polls have an error margin of 3-5% or so

You are really reaching. If you read the whole article from Faux News it's clear that there is not only a majority but that the trend in virtually every single group polled has shown significant movement away from Trump. If the margin of error is not surpassed yet it's only a matter of time (less than a week is my guess) until it will be.

You keep on clinging to whatever it is you're clinging to though, I can wait.

I'm not the one that's reaching. HT and I-5 were reaching when they said that a majority, or solid majority, of those polled support removal from office when the fact is that it's a virtual toss up.

I'm not impressed with this "significant movement" away from Trump. For a man that won just 46% of the popular vote, 49% that haven't seen enough to advocate his removal from office isn't a huge deal as it doesn't represent ANY defectors out of those who voted for him.

What I'm "clinging to" is an erosion of Trump's base, something I have yet to see and an absoulete necessity if 20 R Senators are to have enough political cover to give him up. If they can't get the votes in the Senate to convict him, then what's the sense in impeaching him?

Edit: Maybe we need to be talking about more than just the 20 R Senators. There are a number of Dem Senators from states that Trump carried by a wide margin, such as Doug Jones from Alabama who's up for re-election in 2020, that are going to be put on the spot in an impeachment trial. They're going to want to see a lot more than just a "51% majority" before they risk their political hides.

[Aseahawkfan]

Riverdog,

I wouldn't even worry about it. Trump is not even worth the trouble.

I just can't stand the hypocrisy of it all. Dems build a case against Trump using foreign intelligence from unknown sources likely from Ukraine to push impeachment and removal from office with a dossier from a political opponent, then Trump tries to do the same thing and he's vilified. Just goes to show how hypocritical and full of trash all these D.C folks and their press mouthpieces are.

Even now as he pulls out Syria and tries not to involve us in foreign wars, Right wing press starts to turn on him. Now folks like I5 calling him out for being anti-war because he's helping Putin for reasons he can't even explain. I'd bet money I5 was anti-war when Bush 2 was pushing Iraq while the left wing press was painting him as a war criminal. The level of hypocritical BS is pushing my ire up to 11.

Even c-hawkbob who spent like 5 or 6 years calling Bush 2 (who he called Shrub) and Cheney war criminals claiming they lied to start an illegal war that killed hundreds of thousands of people would prefer them back over anti-war Trump. He wonders why i called him a hypocrite and didn't even bother to respond when he asked me about it. How about you be a man and admit you're hypocrite, c-hawkbob? How about that? You want a person you consider a war criminal in office over a narcissist. If I believed what you believe, I'd take a narcissist over a war criminal murderer.

It's unreal we have been bantering on forums for like 15 years plus now. Pretty insane that we were discussing the same trash state of our government all these years later. And still the lines are drawn by who you vote for rather than who is doing well for the nation.

I wish folks like I5 and c-hawkbob would say they hate Trump on a deeply personal level and would rather have a couple of war criminals like Bush 2/Cheney in office. I could at least respect that after all these years of having so many people point out how scumbag all these other presidents have been with proof of scumbaggery more vile and murderous than we have on Trump.

Even Hawktawk used to talk mad crap about Clinton and the Dems. Hawktawk used to despise Clinton and the Dems. Guy was as vocal about the corruption of the Democrats and Clinton with worse crimes listed by Clinton than Trump has done, but he now hypocritically changes his tune because his current hate is so strong towards Trump. He honestly wanted Hilary Clinton who he vilified in office over Trump even when he used to list more crimes by Bill and Hilary than he does about Trump.

It's like all these people have forgotten what they said and posted years past. The crimes they pointed out. And somehow can't compare them to the jackassery of Trump in an objective way because they are blinded by their hatred for this guy.

You're about the only consistent poster on this forum who I never recall vilifying any of the presidents. Trump's like the first guy you can't stand. And that mostly because of how he acts, which makes sense. He objectively acts like a total jackass. At least you can see his policies and the like are mostly business as usual. His mouth is the worst part of him. Any other president including Bush Jr. would have leveraged this economy into a landslide or at least very solid and easy re-election other than this idiot that can't keep his mouth from saying stupid things. I'm glad you've been such a consistent poster over the years. At least you're not a flip flopping hypocrite like these other folks. Sheesh.

Glad you're at least consistent. That makes debate and discussion more reasonable. Wish more Americans had a better memory than they appear to have about past presidents.

[RiverDog]

Riverdog,

I wouldn't even worry about it. Trump is not even worth the trouble.

What I worry about is the Dems impeaching Trump and failing to remove him from office while taking out Biden. That would result in a Trump vs. Warren or Trump vs. Bernie choice for 2020, something that would force me to cast another protest vote. It could also jeopardize the Republican majority in the Senate as the numbers are against the R's. If Trump goes on trial, a number of them, particularly those from purple states like Collins of Maine and Gardner of Colorado, could be placed in a no win situation. If the Dems win the White House, they would have control of both branches of government, something I don't want to see either party achieve with the alternative being another 4 years of that ass clown.

I just can't stand the hypocrisy of it all. Dems build a case against Trump using foreign intelligence from unknown sources likely from Ukraine to push impeachment and removal from office with a dossier from a political opponent, then Trump tries to do the same thing and he's vilified. Just goes to show how hypocritical and full of trash all these D.C folks and their press mouthpieces are.

Two wrongs don't make a right. As it applies to the current situation, I don't care what happened in the past. The bad thing with Trump is that he's so brazen about it, doesn't see anything wrong at all in his "perfect" phone call. It's an indefensible position to try to justify his actions. Even some of his biggest supporters at Fox News, if not for impeachment, have called him out on it. Morally, I'm with the Dems 100% in their impeachment efforts, my only difference being that I'm a little more practical about the chances of getting him and understand and am more fearful of the consequences if they don't.

You're about the only consistent poster on this forum who I never recall vilifying any of the presidents. Trump's like the first guy you can't stand. And that mostly because of how he acts, which makes sense. He objectively acts like a total jackass. At least you can see his policies and the like are mostly business as usual. His mouth is the worst part of him. Any other president including Bush Jr. would have leveraged this economy into a landslide or at least very solid and easy re-election other than this idiot that can't keep his mouth from saying stupid things. I'm glad you've been such a consistent poster over the years. At least you're not a flip flopping hypocrite like these other folks. Sheesh.

Glad you're at least consistent. That makes debate and discussion more reasonable. Wish more Americans had a better memory than they appear to have about past presidents.

Thanks for the compliment. I've had my differences with a number of past POTUS's, but Trump is the first one I've truly despised, that I feel i's wholly unqualified, has zero management skills, is so spoiled and lazy that he's never bothered to challenge his intellect. I often wonder if he could top Vince Young's Wonderlic score. But although his being a lazy, spoiled rich kid racist prick is my major deal breaker, there is enough of his politics to cause me not to support him, such as his positions on immigration and trade.

[c_hawkbob]

And now the Department of Defense, after conducting it's own legal analysis of Trump withholding funds already appropriated by congress to aid the Ukraine in their struggle with Russia has deemed it to have been illegal:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-off ... 46566.html

[RiverDog]

And now the Department of Defense, after conducting it's own legal analysis of Trump withholding funds already appropriated by congress to aid the Ukraine in their struggle with Russia has deemed it to have been illegal:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/pentagon-off ... 46566.html

Interesting. Thanks for the link.

The transcripts of Trump's phone call alone were enough to convince me that he committed an impeachable offense. He quite openly and brazenly solicited a foreign government for dirt on a political opponent. In my mind, whether or not the impoundment of funds was legal is beside the point, but it might help others to come to the same conclusion.

They're going to need a steady stream of news like this to keep the issue in front of everybody if they're going to have a chance at removing him from office. I still think it's a long shot.

[RiverDog]

And in other news, two Ukrainian associates of Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, suspected of putting pressure on Ukrainian officials to investigate Democrats, were arrested Wednesday night at Washington Dulles Airport prior to boarding an international flight with one way tickets hours after having lunch with Giuliani. They are charged with conspiracy, lying to the Federal Election Commission, and falsifying records.

If convicted on all the charges, they could face up to 35 years in prison.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/10/foreign ... ested.html

And the plot thickens.....

[c_hawkbob]

Yeah, how spy movie sh!t is that? One way tickets outa dodge after meeting with the boss that the agency (whichever) was likely monitoring, and the arrested at the airport ... this is all gonna make a great movie!

[RiverDog]

Yeah, how spy movie sh!t is that? One way tickets outa dodge after meeting with the boss that the agency (whichever) was likely monitoring, and the arrested at the airport ... this is all gonna make a great movie!

Exactly! All The President's Men 2019.

And now it's being reported that Giuliani was planning on traveling to Vienna 24 hours after his two associates were arrested, apparently on their way to the same Austrian city:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar ... na/599833/

Just a coincidence? I'd really love to hear Idahawkman try to spin this one.

[c_hawkbob]

This morning, Giuliani told me he’d have to reschedule our lunch. I’ve tried to reach him since then, to discuss Parnas’s and Fruman’s arrests, among other things, to no avail. When I called at 3 p.m. ET to ask about his Vienna trip, a woman claiming to be his communications director answered the phone. I have called him more than 100 times over the past year, and this is the first time that has ever happened. She said she’d have to get back to me. As we spoke, I could hear a voice that resembled Giuliani’s shout “asshole” in the background. “Oh, sorry,” the woman told me. “He was talking to the TV.”

That scene has got to be in the movie!

[RiverDog]

The last paragraph provides the Idahawkman spin:

Trump is already seeking to distance himself from the controversy. “I don’t know those gentlemen,” the president told reporters before departing for a rally in Minnesota. “Now, it’s possible I have a picture with them, because I have a picture with everybody.” (He does, in fact, have a picture with Parnas.)

“Maybe they were clients of Rudy,” Trump added. “You’d have to ask Rudy.”

How much you wanna bet that Trump will throw Giuliani under the bus just like he did with Michael Cohen?

[Hawktawk]

Reported just this morning that Guliani is indeed under investigation for his links to the two eastern bloc thug henchmen he was seen dining with just a few hours before they were popped at Dulles Int.its getting ugly and of course Trump will turn on the guy like he does everyone who is no longer useful.

And if you're reading Asea you really crack me up. You do. There has NEVER been a president as off the hook as this one, not a close call. There's never been as unstable chaotic unhinged president as this one. Yes I ragged mercillesly on Obama and for good cause but Id take him back right now.He could at least act presidential.

Yes Bush, Reagan etc made their mistakes in military interventions but hindsight is 20-20, I never felt the were un american or totally self serving of their own personal interests or in the case of Trump financial.
Yes I despise Hillary and voted for Gary Johnson but Id take my chances with what would likely have been the third term of Bill and still have my lifelong party in loyal opposition then to KNOW our greatest geopolitical foe hand picked this rube who does their bidding every chance he gets.None of that makes me a hypocrite, quite the opposite.

As for the unfounded Steele dossier much is proven and the most "salacious" allegations of him being filmed with Russian hookers doing aquatic water sports in the Moscow Ritz Carlton is hardly unproven, matter of fact with what's in the public lexicon it's more likely than not true and I'll have that debate with anyone who wants to go there. You OK with a nation with 7 K nukes aimed at us having a film like that on our President or that he would be a person so depraved he would do it in the first place?
Regardless the supposed take down of the most corrupt unfit president in history with the help of a dossier compiled by a respected British agent has nothing to do with this current foot wound called Ukraine where the POTUS has had to ADMIT HE DISCUSSED HIS CHIEF POLITICAL RIVAL WITH A FOREIGN EASTERN BLOC LEADER THE DAY AFTER MUELLER TESTIFIED TO THE HOUSE, ASKED FOR AN INVESTIGATION INTO HIM. Texts show there was a clear withholding of aid your and my tax dollars paid for to benefit Trump politically.
America gets this which is why day after day the polls turn toward impeaching the POS. As for the Fox poll while 51% support actual removal only 40% or so oppose it with the rest undecided and there hasn't even been a trial or formal impeachment with articles laid out so that will rise.Thats a "solid majority to me. Any candidate for office would love a poll like that, especially a challenger. You know Asea it just gets a little tiresome watching your too cool for school have it both ways and pooh pooh the conduct of this criminal one sentence and condemn him the next. You're more bipolar than me. Pick a side.

[RiverDog]

Reported just this morning that Guliani is indeed under investigation for his links to the two eastern bloc thug henchmen he was seen dining with just a few hours before they were popped at Dulles Int.its getting ugly and of course Trump will turn on the guy like he does everyone who is no longer useful.

It's ironic because Giuliani, if the stories are true, is under investigation by the same office of which he used to lead and where he made his name.

I used to like Rudy. He was a crime fighter, an aggressive prosecuting attorney that took down a lot of bad guys, and I was quite impressed with him in the aftermath of 9/11. I felt that he would have made a worthy POTUS candidate, and he seemed to be in opposition to Trump when he said he'd asked him if there was a way he could ban all Muslims from entering the country. But these past 2 years have been a huge disappointment. He contradicts himself regularly, makes nonsensical arguments, and seems connected to Trump at the hip.

His erratic behavior of late should be a huge concern to Trumpies. If Trump really dumps on him, it wouldn't surprise me if Rudy did a John Dean and testify against him in an impeachment proceeding, especially if he's facing charges himself. Giuliani is the one person connected with the Administration that could cause Republicans to start moving away from Trump.

[Hawktawk]

America’s mayor , heroic leader during 911, cleaned up the streets of NY cutting murders and crime dramatically . Now he’s Chump for trump and hardly the first or last guy to take a swan dive into the slag heap for this reprehensible traitor. In other news photographs from 2014 show trump with the 2 jailbirds that were arrested , one of them was invited to his invitation only victory party in Nov 16. Texts between one of the guys and a friend who shared them with the media prove they consider trump a personal friend. So he’s clearly lying about not knowing them which is shocking.

So to recap Trumps former lawyer is in jail , his current lawyer is under investigation for his association with money laundering straw donations from foreign nations to help Republicans while at the same time meddling in Ukrainian affairs drumming up an investigation of the Bidens. I fail to see how America could ever get any greater than it’s been with trump and his thugs in charge.

[c_hawkbob]

If Trump really dumps on him, it wouldn't surprise me if Rudy did a John Dean and testify against him in an impeachment proceeding, especially if he's facing charges himself. Giuliani is the one person connected with the Administration that could cause Republicans to start moving away from Trump.

Despite beginning the day with a tweetstorm in support of him it didn't take him long to begin to distance himself from his (perhaps former) lawyer when questioned:

Asked whether Giuliani remained his personal attorney, Trump said: “I don’t know.”

[RiverDog]

If Trump really dumps on him, it wouldn't surprise me if Rudy did a John Dean and testify against him in an impeachment proceeding, especially if he's facing charges himself. Giuliani is the one person connected with the Administration that could cause Republicans to start moving away from Trump.

Despite beginning the day with a tweetstorm in support of him it didn't take him long to begin to distance himself from his (perhaps former) lawyer when questioned:

Asked whether Giuliani remained his personal attorney, Trump said: “I don’t know.”

Oh, that's old news. By noon time Trump's attitude seems to have changed, perhaps sensing that he'd better not diss the guy that knows too much. Here's the latest of what he said about him:

The lunch, at Mr. Trump’s golf course in Sterling, Va., was among several shows of the president’s support for Mr. Giuliani on Saturday. They seemed meant to tamp down questions about Mr. Giuliani’s status with a client famous for distancing himself from advisers when they encounter legal problems of their own.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/12/us/p ... lunch.html

But today's a new day.

[I-5]

The way I interpret the lunch (since it’s anyone’a guess) is that it was a chance for them to align their shifting stories to the media, and possibly congress’ impeachment inquiry. A quid pro quo if you will. I have no reason not to believe this.

[RiverDog]

The way I interpret the lunch (since it’s anyone’a guess) is that it was a chance for them to align their shifting stories to the media, and possibly congress’ impeachment inquiry. A quid pro quo if you will. I have no reason not to believe this.

I guess you're talking about the lunch between Trump and Giuliani, not the one between Giuliani and the fleeing Ukrainians.

My view is that Trump, or one of his advisors, suddenly realized that there was a danger in distancing themselves from Giuliani and that their tactic they used against Cohen, ie discredit him, wouldn't work with someone of Giuliani's stature and that they'd damn well better kiss and make up.

[I-5]

Yes, I meant Trump and Giuliani. Your hunch fits exactly with my theory. They both have things to gain and lose in this.

[RiverDog]

Yes, I meant Trump and Giuliani. Your hunch fits exactly with my theory. They both have things to gain and lose in this.

At least until they indict Giuliani. If that happens, things will get REALLY interesting.

[I-5]

I would think part of the plan they discussed is what to do in case Giuliani is inducted, which seems likely. I can already hear trump say he has ‘many lawyers, of which Rudy was just one’. There is lots of room under that bus; Flynn, then Manafort, then Cohen, all indicted and convicted.

[RiverDog]

I would think part of the plan they discussed is what to do in case Giuliani is inducted, which seems likely. I can already hear trump say he has ‘many lawyers, of which Rudy was just one’. There is lots of room under that bus; Flynn, then Manafort, then Cohen, all indicted and convicted.

As I mentioned above, it's not going to be so easy to dump Rudy as it was those other no names. Giuliani has been on the news at least a couple of times a week for the past 2 years. Trump can't get rid of him and he's not going to be able to convince others that he's just one of a dozen or so lawyers that work for him, not when Rudy appears on his most watched station Fox News as often has he has.

Rudy seems to me to be a bit of a loose cannon. At 75 years old, he's an old man with a failing memory, has a penchant for sticking his foot in his mouth, and is a huge liability for an administration that's trying to keep the lid on things. He's the key to this entire scandal.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... esort.html

Then there's this. You truly can not make it up.

[Hawktawk]

As the first actual cabinet official Russian envoy Fiona Hill took the stand the WH tried to block her testimony based on executive privilege but was rebuffed. Its easy to see why they tried since she reportedly said the Trump administration was clearly going through improper channels to advance Trump's political interests. She quoted John Bolton as being livid when he first heard of this plan and saying he wanted "no part of this drug deal'. He described Giuliani as a "hand grenade that will blow everyone up".

Those are just the leaks from 10 hrs of testimony from a steady professional woman who loves her country and the office she serves. Imagine what the totality of her testimony was.
Dems are apparently caucusing today to catch the full body up on what's been learned the past 2 weeks. And the hits will just keep coming all week with the dam breaking and numerous other officials defying the WH including EU Ambassador Sondland set to testify that his "no quid pro quo" text was sent at the behest of Trump in a phone call and that he has no idea why aid was actually being held up.
The holdouts are Guliani, Mike Pompeo, an utterly despicable sleazy figure at this point, and "acting" chief of staff Mick Mulvaney but really they dont even need these guys testimony. Grow a pair and lock them up if they defy subpoenas.

When this inquiry goes live in the house and almost certainly in a senate trial I can't see how public opinion can do anything but get worse for this president and the pressure on the Republican senate will increase exponentially as a result.Walk the plank for Trump McConnell. Then watch your 24 R Senators defend their seats including yourself sitting in the high 30s in Kentucky going against the will of a majority of americans . Go for it....

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/tr ... ar-AAILbg6
If this was just a wag the dog move or more likely a decison based on over 100 separate business intersts in Turkey its getting ugly fast. 50 tactical nukes stored at Incirlik AFB!!!!! held hostage by Erogadan!!! Might have wanted to think about this before green lighting a turkish incursion into Syria, potentially thousands of ISIS fighters escaping, Russia, Iran, Syria benefitting and the one trump foreign talking point the defeat of ISIS is gone. That's what happens when a daft 6 time bankruptcy acrobat follows his gut.....

[I-5]

No doubt both Fiona Hill and George Kent, both career diplomats with a long history of exemplary service will be subject to brutal disinformation campaigns, by both Russia and the White House. So crazy.

Trump is now in the mode of uttering a lie every single time he opens his mouth, instead of every other time.

[I-5]

And now Russia (of COURSE) is stepping into the vaccuum left by Putin's puppet in Syria. It doesn't matter what success or failures Russia or the USA has had in the Middle East. What matters is what happens here on out, and it looks like it's another opportunity for Putin to expand his influence. ASF and ID can keep spinning it as Trump being crazy smart....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-50058859

Brick by brick, the US is losing its standing in the world. How much farther can we fall before we get Trump out of there? I'm sure Putin has more plans for him...he's still working on the G7 invite, Trump didn't have any leverage then.

[RiverDog]

Brick by brick, the US is losing its standing in the world. How much farther can we fall before we get Trump out of there? I'm sure Putin has more plans for him...he's still working on the G7 invite, Trump didn't have any leverage then.

I'm not going to defend any of these foreign policy decisions by Trump, or worse, the way he's making them, but I do think that you are over stating it when you claim that we're losing our standing in the world. We're still the preeminent economic and military power. Other countries need us a lot more than we need them. Once Trump is gone, our relations with other countries will get back to normal.

[Hawktawk]

It’s not as easy as flipping a switch . We’ve lost ground that’s going to take a while to get back. Jim Mattis broke his silence to say isis would absolutely reconstitute. Russia has filled the void in Syria. It’s helped Syria, Russia, Turkey and even Iran who may well wind up with a land bridge to the Mediterranean . It’s not easy putting the toothpaste back in the tube and imagine if God forbid Trump slips this noose with the help of the senate and wins another term?

[c_hawkbob]

What I worry about is our allies losing faith in us. If one administration is going to completely disregard promises and treaties and traditional arrangements from previous administrations how can they trust anything beyond the next election?