Trump grounds Eagles from Whitehouse

[trents]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/06 ... spute.html

It'll be interesting to see how this one plays out for both sides.

[c_hawkbob]

Not one Eagle took a knee last season, but too many said no thanks the invite so the Petulant 6 Year Old in Chief disinvited the rest ... way to show 'em Prez.

Serves the NFL right for ever wading into the political landscape in the first place.

[RiverDog]

Another thread that's a mixture of football and politics. I've never seen a situation where a politician interjects his opinion into EVERYTHING and causes messes like this. As I've said in the OT forum, I don't object to the man's politics as much as I do the man himself. This action is so fricking childish.

[NorthHawk]

Here's an article about why in part the Owners might want to appease Trump.
I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't come up again at some point.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... ax-reform/

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump's right not to bother with it. He already made an enemy of NFL players making them pick a side. No use trying to pretend NFL players and Trump get along or even have mutual respect. They don't. So Trump's doing what Trump does, hitting back. I could care less. This is as expected when the worst two candidates in history run: the dumbest period in American politics. At this point I truly have no idea if we have another good leader out there that can both provide the White House with respectability and do a good job at the same time without stirring up too much useless trash like this, especially since Trump now set a precedent using social media to forward his campaign with vitriol and hype.

[RiverDog]

Trump's right not to bother with it. He already made an enemy of NFL players making them pick a side. No use trying to pretend NFL players and Trump get along or even have mutual respect. They don't. So Trump's doing what Trump does, hitting back. I could care less. This is as expected when the worst two candidates in history run: the dumbest period in American politics. At this point I truly have no idea if we have another good leader out there that can both provide the White House with respectability and do a good job at the same time without stirring up too much useless trash like this, especially since Trump now set a precedent using social media to forward his campaign with vitriol and hype.

Trump's the one that picked this fight. He's the one that threw the first punch when he came out and denounced players for kneeling and said that they should be fired for doing so. Although personally I'd jump at the chance to meet ANY POTUS and I'm dead set against the protests, I don't blame the players one bit for refusing to go to the White House. He has no business meddling in the affairs of a private enterprise like the NFL.

[burrrton]

Although personally I'd jump at the chance to meet ANY POTUS and I'm dead set against the protests, I don't blame the players one bit for refusing to go to the White House.

What ^^he^^ said.

[Aseahawkfan]

Trump's the one that picked this fight. He's the one that threw the first punch when he came out and denounced players for kneeling and said that they should be fired for doing so. Although personally I'd jump at the chance to meet ANY POTUS and I'm dead set against the protests, I don't blame the players one bit for refusing to go to the White House. He has no business meddling in the affairs of a private enterprise like the NFL.

Exactly what happened. Trump picked and fight and hyped it up. He needs to keep his fight going to continue to use it to attack the NFL. I feel like he has some petty vendetta against the NFL for not letting him in or something. He's grinding axes while in the WH.

[RiverDog]

I see now where LeBron James and Steph Curry said that no matter who wins the NBA Championship, neither team will go to the White House to meet the POTUS. Good on them. Isolate the S.O.B.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/spor ... trump.html

[burrrton]

Isolate the S.O.B.

The needle isn't moving a micrometer based on anything those overpaid jockstraps decide. Nobody is "isolating" anyone anymore than he already is (or isn't, depending on your perspective).

This will steel just as many people behind him as it turns against him, which is to say: not many in either direction that weren't already going that way anyway.

I don't know if it's a political strength or weakness, but I think it's unique to Trump.

[mykc14]

The needle isn't moving a micrometer based on anything those overpaid jockstraps decide. Nobody is "isolating" anyone anymore than he already is (or isn't, depending on your perspective).

This will steel just as many people behind him as it turns against him, which is to say: not many in either direction that weren't already going that way anyway.

I don't know if it's a political strength or weakness, but I think it's unique to Trump.

I completely agree. He will tell everybody they weren’t invited in the first place and those who already hate him will hate him a little bit more and those who love him will love him a bit more. There isn’t much he could do at this point to sway anybody’s opinion in either direction too far...

[yoder]

Since this isn't Seahawks news, I've moved it to the OT section. Not opposed to the thread, just trying to keep a tidy house.

[c_hawkbob]

Since this isn't Seahawks news, I've moved it to the OT section. Not opposed to the thread, just trying to keep a tidy house.

Muchas gracias.

[burrrton]

Oh, and for anyone that doubts the strong left-leaning bias of the media in this country, take close note of the reactions to athletes refusing to visit the WH now vs 2008-2016.

The side-by-sides on social media are almost painful to read.

[RiverDog]

"The needle isn't moving a micrometer based on anything those overpaid jockstraps decide. Nobody is "isolating" anyone anymore than he already is (or isn't, depending on your perspective).

This will steel just as many people behind him as it turns against him, which is to say: not many in either direction that weren't already going that way anyway.

I don't know if it's a political strength or weakness, but I think it's unique to Trump."

I completely agree. He will tell everybody they weren’t invited in the first place and those who already hate him will hate him a little bit more and those who love him will love him a bit more. There isn’t much he could do at this point to sway anybody’s opinion in either direction too far...

I'm not so sure about that. I agree that there's far fewer middle of the road'ers regarding their opionions of this POTUS vs. any in my memory, but there is still a significant number of Americans that can be influenced as reflected by his job approval ratings, which recently has ticked up a bit.

[Aseahawkfan]

RD,

Look, you, myself, burrton, and Hawktawk did not vote for Trump. We usually vote Republican. None of us particularly like the guy. He still won the presidency with many conservative voters sitting on the sideline. Unless you and bunch like you are willing to hold your nose and vote for a Democrat, not much will change with Trump. I don't think his moves with the NFL or NBA matter much. So many of his followers have contempt for Hollyweird and Athletes as overpaid prima donnas constantly whining, doing crimes themselves, and generally being not great people that Trump supporters don't care what athletes,actors, or the like have to say. Athletes have not helped themselves by protesting cops, while overlooking the monsters in their midst beating women, sleeping around, and generally acting poorly.

Do you ever contemplate how hard they tried and are trying to take down Trump? He literally had the vast majority of the media against him. He had Hollywood against him. He had certain powerful conservatives like the Bush's against him. He had women's groups against him. He had so much against him going into this election that I can't recall president in recent memory having so many people trying to take him down. Yet somehow he won. He continues to act like a braggart, outspoken, "I don't give a flying F" president, still nothing. He literally has both his middle fingers up at all the people against him, firing with both barrels on Twitter, and he's still the president. Trump don't give a damn.

Now the FBI, CIA, and various other powers within our government are trying to take him down. Obama from outside is trying to take him down. The Clintons, The Bushes, John McCain. They've painted him as a racist, misogynist Russian spy engaging in unethical business practices and campaign finance violations. Pornstars are trying to take him down. Anti-Immigration groups. It's insane how many people are trying to take Trump down. He's still standing somehow.

I read his book The Art of the Deal. He specifically addresses paying back people that wrong him or don't help him when he needed it most. They would come back to him for help later, he would remind them how they wronged him and pay them back with nothing. He remembers every wrong done to him and he pays it back as much as he can.

You saying this might have some kind of effect is out of touch with reality. This guy is batting the world and so far he's winning. What does he care about the NFL or NBA when those guys aren't respected much to start with.

[idhawkman]

Not one Eagle took a knee last season, but too many said no thanks the invite so the Petulant 6 Year Old in Chief disinvited the rest ... way to show 'em Prez.

Serves the NFL right for ever wading into the political landscape in the first place.

Completely missed opportunity for the players to have the cameras on them in a round table discussion with Trump which would have given them national press for their cause but instead, they confirm 70+ people were coming right up until Monday and then tell them that the coach, owner and mascot will make the trip.

Basically, the Eagles tried to pull a fast one for optics and the President responded. What did they think he would do, roll over and say okay to those three showing up? Again, a missed opportunity for all involved.

[idhawkman]

Trump's the one that picked this fight. He's the one that threw the first punch when he came out and denounced players for kneeling and said that they should be fired for doing so. Although personally I'd jump at the chance to meet ANY POTUS and I'm dead set against the protests, I don't blame the players one bit for refusing to go to the White House. He has no business meddling in the affairs of a private enterprise like the NFL.

Perspective Riv. I think the players threw the first punch by kneeling. I know you think he is poking his nose into non-political areas but I see patriotism for the national anthem being played as a worthy cause for the President (Commander in Cheif) to weigh in on. So it is perspective.

[idhawkman]

I see now where LeBron James and Steph Curry said that no matter who wins the NBA Championship, neither team will go to the White House to meet the POTUS. Good on them. Isolate the S.O.B.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/spor ... trump.html

They'd have to be invited first which they won't be.

[idhawkman]

Now the NFL has 3 major sponsors questioning their support for the upcoming season. They thought the issue was behind them with the new position of the NFL owners but the Jets owner and now the Eagles may have put this issue back on the front burner. This is making the sponsors choose whether they want to even get involved on either side of the issue. Budweiser definitely doesn't want to alienate 1/2 their customers regardless of which half.

If the players don't think this will come back and bite them, they are sadly mistaken. The NFL owners don't want to piss away another $600M in ad revenue this year too.

[RiverDog]

They'd have to be invited first which they won't be.

True, and by not inviting them, Trump won't be forced to make up a bunch of lies as to why the players don't want to attend.

[RiverDog]

If the players don't think this will come back and bite them, they are sadly mistaken. The NFL owners don't want to piss away another $600M in ad revenue this year too.

The players? The players were allowing this to die on the vine until the owners, at the prompting of the POTUS, came up with this screwy rule that only a committee could design. IMO of the three parties involved, the players are the least responsible for keeping this issue alive.

[c_hawkbob]

Perspective Riv. I think the players threw the first punch by kneeling.

Perhaps you missed it so I'll reiterate: Not one Eagle took a knee last season. Not one (even though the Trump administration tried to make it look as though they did by tweeting pictures of Eagles players taking a knee in prayer well before the anthem).

This is 100% about Trump not wanting to look bad because too many Eagles had said they weren't going to accept an offer to visit.

[RiverDog]

Perhaps you missed it so I'll reiterate: Not one Eagle took a knee last season. Not one (even though the Trump administration tried to make it look as though they did by tweeting pictures of Eagles players taking a knee in prayer well before the anthem).

This is 100% about Trump not wanting to look bad because too many Eagles had said they weren't going to accept an offer to visit.

Not only that, but Trump himself made up a bold faced lie that the reason that the Eagles players didn't want to come was because they disagreed with his view "that they proudly stand for the National Anthem" when as you noted, not a single one of them took a knee in any of their 4 preseason, 16 regular season, or 3 post season games.

This was classic Trump. He was understandably embarrassed and upset when he found out that not very may players were going to attend, but what was his reaction? To cover his embarrassment by lying his arse off. You can't trust a single thing that comes out of that man's mouth.

[trents]

I reluctantly voted for Trump as the lesser of two evils on election day. But as it turns out, he may be exactly what this country and the world needed. Yes, like most people I am turned off by his brashness and abrasiveness but in some very important ways it is accomplishing positive things nationally and internationally that have needed to happen for years and years. Unemployment in the USA is the lowest it's been in almost 20 years. The economy is flourshing. ISIS has been beaten back into a small corner of its former territory. Despots are getting into line. The nation needed a strong leader and the world needs a strong country to lead. I've gotten to the point where I'm willing to put up with Trump's obnoxiousness in light of the good things that are happening under his leadership.

[idhawkman]

Perspective Riv. I think the players threw the first punch by kneeling.

Perhaps you missed it so I'll reiterate: Not one Eagle took a knee last season. Not one (even though the Trump administration tried to make it look as though they did by tweeting pictures of Eagles players taking a knee in prayer well before the anthem).

Maybe you missed it so I'll state it here: Taking a knee or not last year had no bearing on being dis-invited to the white house.

This is 100% about Trump not wanting to look bad because too many Eagles had said they weren't going to accept an offer to visit.

Not true Cbob. They confirmed 70 people to attend and then the day before, they adjusted it to 9. Just so you know, the secret service and the FBI have to do background checks on all visitors to the oval office and those that meet the president at the white house. So this was a total political move initiated by the Eagles organization and Trump punched back. Its nothing more than that.

[RiverDog]

Maybe you missed it so I'll state it here: Taking a knee or not last year had no bearing on being dis-invited to the white house.

I don't think Cbob missed anything, and I damn sure I didn't, because that's not what the POTUS said. Here's Trump's explanation as to why the event was canceled:

They (the Eagles) disagree with their president because he insists that they proudly stand for the national anthem, hand on heart, in honour of the great men and women of our military and the people of our country."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-44364626

But of course, Trump's statement has already been proven as a bold faced lie, so I see no reason to believe anything else that comes out of the WH as an explanation for the cancelation of this event. I'll trust the players version of events before I'll trust Trump's. Isn't that sad?

[c_hawkbob]

They confirmed 70 people to attend and then the day before, they adjusted it to 9

Who is "they" and where are you getting this information? Tass?

[RiverDog]

"They confirmed 70 people to attend and then the day before, they adjusted it to 9"

Who is "they" and where are you getting this information? Tass?

I'd like to see where you are getting your information as well. Your numbers aren't jiving with public statements:

"Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said in a statement the celebration was cancelled due to the Eagles only sending a small contingent of players for the event. She said the Eagles were expected to be sending 81 players (the 81 included coaches and other employees)."

According to NFL Network, only Nick Foles was confirmed to attend the White House visit. There may have been one more player, but that is unconfirmed.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/ml ... v4mcc0y09l

Nowhere could I find your 70 and 9.

[idhawkman]

Here's a few links for you with a simple google search that tells the story.

https://nypost.com/2018/06/05/white-house-accuses-eagles-of-pulling-political-stunt/

This article points out the names sumbitted and the games that the Eagles' players and coaches wanted to play:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/05/us/politics/trump-philadelphia-eagles-white-house-visit.html

This article clearly links the Eagles objection to the president's stance on kneeling:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/04/sports/philadelphia-eagles-white-house.html

The last two articles are from the NY times which we all know has no love lost for the president.

To summarize:
The White House started working with the Eagle's organization right after they won the SB to cooordinate the visit (Feb timeframe)

The Eagles submitted 81 names of players, coaches, trainers and staff to attend the Tuesday event.

The Eagles late on Friday told the White House that less than 10 people would atually attend (Coach, owner, 2 players, mascot and a coupe of staff) the event even though most of their players would be in the DC area for other events.

The White House tried to accomodate a smaller contingent or reschedule but the Eagles only wanted to reschedule when the President was in Singapore for the N. Korean Talks.

The Eagles (according to the White House) said they don't like the President's stance on standing for the anthem.

The president canceled the visit and made the statement you posted River, but now it has the full context of the statement.

Question: What do you think of the President's offer to the players from this mornings press meeting? It seems to address their original issue quite well and now it is time for the players to put up or shut up.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm only seeing any numbers of actual players and coaches that were to accept the invitation being tossed out by the Trump press team, not the most reliable source ... everyone else, including the publishers of the articles you link seem to be careful to say that it's unclear how many would actually have attended.

That's the problem with relying on what you hear on talk radio. Too much bias, to little fact checking.

[idhawkman]

I'm only seeing any numbers of actual players and coaches that were to accept the invitation being tossed out by the Trump press team, not the most reliable source ... everyone else, including the publishers of the articles you link seem to be careful to say that it's unclear how many would actually have attended.

That's the problem with relying on what you hear on talk radio. Too much bias, to little fact checking.

The third link states less than 10 members were planning to attend so I gave the maximum credit of 9. I also saw that number in the white house brieifing on Tuesday.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo6cviH2ik

The NFL reporter Carafalo (spelling?) said that his research with the Eagle's organization found that only the MVP QB Nick Foles was confirmed as the only player and that maybe one or two other players "might" go. I saw on another show that the mascot and owner and coach were confirmed. So again, the players pulled a political stunt to show up the president and he sniffed it out. One of the articles I read while researching this stated that the players took a vote after confirming their visit as to what the plan would be but that they couldn't come to a consensus.

I think the Eagle's story is changing more than the White House's version.

My take on it is: The Eagles organization confirmed the names of players, coaches, trainers and staff to attend. Then the players had second thoughts based on Trump's standd on the National Anthem Protests and many of them wanted to back out or send a representative for the team (I suspect one offensive player, a defensive player and a Special Teamer) plus the HC, Owner and mascot. The sense I got from the coache's press conference on Wed was that the "TEAM" needed to act together but that there was too much of a split in whether to go or not so they chose the representative solution as a compromise. When they informed the white house of their decision to send a handful of people the president canceled the invitation but held the festiviities for the 1,000 fans that made the trip to D.C. (and probably already incurred costs for the trip). I think the coach is embarrassed for his team and the way it all played out and just wants to get back to football.

So, yes, no Eagle's player took a knee last year but that doesn't necessarily mean that their decision to not go to the white house wasn't based on the president's position on taking a knee during the anthem. (hows that sentence for a triple negative?)

[c_hawkbob]

The third link said:

White House officials said that fewer than 10 members of the team were planning to attend

And your video link is again using a WH press release ... just as I said in my response; the only source attaching any specificity of numbers accepting the invitation is the WH. The same folks that tweeted pictures of Eagle players kneeling in prayer well before the Anthem as evidence of them taking a knee during it. I flatly reject Trumps White House as a reliable source for anything.

[RiverDog]

If the White House is trying to claim that they were blindsided, they ought to have their heads examined. 9 months ago, the Golden State Warriors said they weren't going to the White House and Trump had to rescind the invitation:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-scol ... ite-house/

Given the Warriors decision in Sept. of '17 and the undeniable amount of bad blood that's continues to flow between the NFL players and the POTUS, the White House should have guessed that there was a strong possibility that not very many of the Eagles players would show.

Not only that, but it probably wouldn't have been a huge story had Trump done nothing in response. But no, he had to go wrap himself in the American flag and make up some sort of cheesy ceremony in response. Trump was trying to make some political hay with his constituency, which is one of the reasons why players said they didn't want to attend as they feared that Trump would use them as a pawn.

You can kiss goodbye these ceremonies for at least the next couple of years. More evidence of just how divisive this President is.

[burrrton]

That's the problem with relying on what you hear on talk radio. Too much bias, to little fact checking.

Not sure 2018 is the best time to single out "talk radio" for bias and lack of fact checking.

[idhawkman]

If the White House is trying to claim that they were blindsided, they ought to have their heads examined. 9 months ago, the Golden State Warriors said they weren't going to the White House and Trump had to rescind the invitation:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-scol ... ite-house/

Given the Warriors decision in Sept. of '17 and the undeniable amount of bad blood that's continues to flow between the NFL players and the POTUS, the White House should have guessed that there was a strong possibility that not very many of the Eagles players would show.

When you confirm 81 attendees on Thursday and then restate it on Friday after most staff has gone home as maybe 9 or 10 then yes, you are blindsided. Do you think the Secret Service said, "we won't check out most of these 81 names and the 1,000 visitors because most of them won't show anyways?" Highly doubtful.

Not only that, but it probably wouldn't have been a huge story had Trump done nothing in response. But no, he had to go wrap himself in the American flag and make up some sort of cheesy ceremony in response. Trump was trying to make some political hay with his constituency, which is one of the reasons why players said they didn't want to attend as they feared that Trump would use them as a pawn.

That's BS and you know it. The press would have made a huge story out of it just to rub it in Trump's face. No reasonable person would think otherwise given the propensity of the media wanting to report false numbers at his rallies and jab at him for his kneeling stance)

You can kiss goodbye these ceremonies for at least the next couple of years. More evidence of just how divisive this President is.

For some sports I agree. NASCAR, College champions and a few others will still attend. Too bad for the other professional teams who won't get the national day of recognition that they and their fans (Both Dems and Reps) deserve.

[RiverDog]

That's BS and you know it. The press would have made a huge story out of it just to rub it in Trump's face. No reasonable person would think otherwise given the propensity of the media wanting to report false numbers at his rallies and jab at him for his kneeling stance)

Maybe, maybe not. The Golden State Warriors refused the invite and nothing was made of it, and the year before, the New England Patriots had a number of players not attend their ceremony. This morning is the first time I had heard about either of those two instances. He made no attempt to compromise, such as not rescinding the invite and just have Nick Foles accept Trump's congratulations on behalf of the Eagles. He had to turn into into a political rally by wrapping himself in the flag.

Besides, Trump brought this on himself. He just couldn't keep his big mouth shut and his cell phone on the docking station. He had to interject himself into this discussion about the anthem protests. He has only himself to blame for this mess, and thanks to the owners screwy anthem policy that he pressured them into doing, it's going to continue.

"You can kiss goodbye these ceremonies for at least the next couple of years. More evidence of just how divisive this President is.

For some sports I agree. NASCAR, College champions and a few others will still attend. Too bad for the other professional teams who won't get the national day of recognition that they and their fans (Both Dems and Reps) deserve.

Of course, NASCAR will attend if invited. Not many blacks in that sport (BTW are you still standing by your 20% black support for Trump in 2020?). Same with the NHL. And I suppose that the colleges will still attend, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Point being is that this is the latest example of Trump's increasing the racial divisions in this country.

[burrrton]

Of course, NASCAR will attend if invited. Not many blacks in that sport

Yes, it's all about the color of their skin, not the fact that they're giving the country the finger.

C'mon.

[RiverDog]

Yes, it's all about the color of their skin, not the fact that they're giving the country the finger.

C'mon.

It's no longer about the protests, at least for me it isn't. I started out being on the anti protest side. Trump is using this issue to stir up his base.

BTW, did you see where Trump is thinking about giving a pardon to Muhammed Ali?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... ammad-ali-—-a-move-the-late-boxer’s-attorney-calls-unnecessary/ar-AAyoei2?ocid=spartanntp

Ali's conviction was overturned decades ago, so there's no crime for him to pardon. Trump is abusing his power to pardon simply for his own political gain.

[idhawkman]

Maybe, maybe not. The Golden State Warriors refused the invite and nothing was made of it, and the year before, the New England Patriots had a number of players not attend their ceremony. This morning is the first time I had heard about either of those two instances. He made no attempt to compromise, such as not rescinding the invite and just have Nick Foles accept Trump's congratulations on behalf of the Eagles. He had to turn into into a political rally by wrapping himself in the flag.

Well then you just missed it. You can still do a google search of "golden state uninvited to white house" and you will see many stories from all different media venues talking about it last Sept and some as early as this Feb. So yes, it would have been covered and made a big deal of.

Besides, Trump brought this on himself. He just couldn't keep his big mouth shut and his cell phone on the docking station. He had to interject himself into this discussion about the anthem protests. He has only himself to blame for this mess, and thanks to the owners screwy anthem policy that he pressured them into doing, it's going to continue.

Yeah, because defending the NATIONAL anthem and soldiers is not the place of the Commander in Cheif. I gotta tell ya Riv, your bias against the man is making you a little skewed here. Not S4E level but skewed.

Of course, NASCAR will attend if invited. Not many blacks in that sport (BTW are you still standing by your 20% black support for Trump in 2020?). Same with the NHL. And I suppose that the colleges will still attend, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Point being is that this is the latest example of Trump's increasing the racial divisions in this country.

This is a racist statement on its face. I'm glad Burrton called it out.

Regarding the 20% support, no, not if he gets the border wall. If that happens he'll be pushing 30%. Did you see the link I posted before after the Kanye tweets and his numbers doubling among black males to 22%? Here's a 2007 census report on illegal immigration and the effects on the black labor market: https://cis.org/Testimony/Illegal-Immigration-Impact-Wages-and-Employment-Black-Workers

Here's a video of Diamon and Silk interviewing black pedestrians in NY. Watch it to the end where they talk about what was said on camera and what was said after the cameras were turned off. I know it is Fox news but I guarantee you will find some things funny in it, and when you see the end of it you'll understand why I think he has much more support than you give him credit for. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5792894568001/?#sp=show-clips