Mid Term First Impressions

[idhawkman]

There's good and bad in the mid terms for everyone. For the Republicans (me)

1. One of only 3 times the party in power gained Senate seats. There's only been 8 seats gained over the past 80 years (the last was one seat gained in Reagan's first mid term where he increased it by 1). Trump flipped 3 so far and could end up with 5 total for a 55-45 split in the Senate.
a. This would help judicial appointments along with nominations to senior positions (replacing Sessions and Rosenstein). So all the hold ups in the old confirmation process will finally start getting votes.
b. What Trump has accomplished in the first 2 years will be secure from repeals (tax cuts, regulation reductions, removal of ObamaCare mandate, etc). They will propose many things in the house but it will end either in the Senate or as a veto on the President's desk since there will be little chance to over ride a veto.
c. Grassley's committe will continue the DOJ/FBI malfeasance with the Russia Probe.

2. The people that Trump stumped for mostly won their races and the never trumpers pretty much went down in flames. This is going to boost Trumps agenda within the party and will make moderate democrats think twice about voting against things like Tax cuts, Judge appointments., etc. (Only democrat to vote for KAvanaugh won his election by just 3 percentage points. If Mansion had voted against Kavanaugh he probably would have lost. This will force him to distance himself more from Shumer, too).

3. It has taken away the democrat cries of "you control both houses and the white house" when explaining that everything that failed as the republicans fault. This will put a little pressure on the democrats to come up with some policy positions and not just "resist". Also, over 30 democrats have pledged to their constituants NOT to vote for Pelosi as the speaker. Today or tomorrow Pelosi is going to force most of them to violate that pledge as their first act and put her back in charge. Otherwise the dems will have to find new leadership overnight which the old guard will never let happen. (This you can get your popcorn out for).

4. Since treaties and trade deals have to be rattified by the Senate the President's agenda abroad should be fairly unscathed.

Negatives for Republican's (me)

1. Can't control the house committee chairmanships. Depending on how the speaker election turns out it could be a nightmare thinking of Watters as the finance chairman, Schiff as the iNtell chairman and Nadler as the judiciary chairman.

2. Won't be able to control the endless investigations on Trump which will detract from anything getting done.

3. Budget bills start in the hOuse and could be a potential govt shut down situation if they get too far radical from the Trump agenda. May make the wall funding impossible unless he gets it done with this year's lame duck house.

I'm sure there are more, I just thought it might be good to start this thread and see what others think.

[burrrton]

Quick thoughts:

1. Pretty much what I expected, although the Senate surprised me a little (despite it being widely touted as a possibility over the last month or so).

2. [edit- you covered this above, but I'm including it here, too ] We're now in for 2 years of investigations into literally everything Trump does, up to and including passing gas.

3. Maxine Waters as the chair of anything makes me laugh out loud.

4. The 'Senate popular vote' lament is the stupidest thing I'm seeing people hollering about this morning.

You get the government you deserve, though!

[RiverDog]

Ahh, leave it to Idahawkman to put a positive spin on this for his beloved POTUS (or should I say POS?). Weren't you predicting a couple of months ago that the R's would retain the House? The results were a mixed bag at best for Trump and the R's.

The election went pretty much as I expected. The deck was stacked against the Dems in the Senate, as the R's only had to defend 9 seats where the Dems were defending 20-some, including several in some very deep red states like Indiana and West Virginia. It would have been a monumental event had the D's won back the Senate. As it is, the R's should add a couple of seats to their majority, making it easier for judicial appointments.

Losing the House is big as the Dems can now thwart nearly all of Trump's initiatives. You can look forward to two years of gridlock. One party rule is over.

I haven't had time to look closely at state races, but it looks like the Dems might net a couple of governorships. There were a couple of firsts, like the first Muslim woman elected to the House and the first two Native American women elected to the House.

It will be interesting to see if any one challenges Nancy Pelosi for the gavel. She raised a whole chit pile of money for the Dems this election, so my guess is that they'll reward her by letting her be the Speaker again.

[Aseahawkfan]

I like gridlock, so this is good.

Republicans holding the Senate should ensure Trump makes it to four years. From what I understand only Senate can remove president which they won't do unless the evidence is impossible to ignore removal.

Democrats will grandstand and waste lots of time and taxpayer money investigating Trump making themselves look stupid when they could try to get something done and wait 2 years. They will at least block Trump's dumber stuff. I think he'll be happy to have them as an excuse for his policy failures. Every time something doesn't pass or something bad happens, he can blame the Democrats for tying his hands. He'll be able to spend his time Twittering and coming up with nicknames for all the Dems attacking him.

Overall, a predicted outcome that will lead to fairly predictable results.

I thought it was real smart of Trump to fire Sessions. He needs a bulldog like Janet Reno running the Justice Department with the Dems in power in The House. He's in a similar situation to Clinton. He needs someone to run interference from their attacks.

[idhawkman]

Ahh, leave it to Idahawkman to put a positive spin on this for his beloved POTUS (or should I say POS?). Weren't you predicting a couple of months ago that the R's would retain the House? The results were a mixed bag at best for Trump and the R's.

It could have been better but overall it was pretty good for Trump. I'd have preferred to keep the house, not sure I actually predicted it but I thought there was a chance to keep it so I won't disavow it. That said, the number of house flips for the dems was around 30. Clintons first mid term was over 80, Obama's first mid term was mid to high 50s if I remember correctly. Bush Jr. was an anomoly because of 9/11. Speaking of 9/11, NINE of the 11 people Trump stumped for won their elections. The major losers were the ones who rejected Trump and the Trump agenda.

So now with a slim margin in the house, Pelosi is going to have to ask her new moderate members to break their promise not to vote for her in their first vote on capitol hill and vote for Pelosi. These districts are moderate to slightly lean left or right. Forcing them to break their promise first thing will be crammed down their throat in the 2020 election. Non - performance of the newly held democratic house will also be held against those new folks.

What happened last night with the House it has virtually guaranteed another 4 years for your favorite POTUS (wish I could have seen your head explode after reading that. )

Losing the House is big as the Dems can now thwart nearly all of Trump's initiatives. You can look forward to two years of gridlock. One party rule is over.

They'll thwart him at their own peril. The 2016 election was about putting someone new (an outsider) in to stop the gridlock. If the Dems go back to it, they'll write their own death nell.

I thought it was real smart of Trump to fire Sessions. He needs a bulldog like Janet Reno running the Justice Department with the Dems in power in The House. He's in a similar situation to Clinton. He needs someone to run interference from their attacks.

Agreed. Now that he will have more Senators will make it easier to replace Sessions, too. He needs a Janet Reno or the "Kick 'em when they are down" type guy in there that ignores congress' requests and even ignores their contempt charges (like Holder did). Get ready for a slew of Executive Priveledge responses to the democrats in the house's sopeonas. The dems will go off the deep end before the next two years is up.

[idhawkman]

Oh yeah, I forgot some of the best parts of the election last night.

Having the Florida, Ohio, Iowa and New Hamshire governorships stay or go republican it will definitely benefit Trump in the 2020 election.


On another note, it would be good if the democrats would adopt a similar position as the republicans that after holding a committee chairmanship for 6 years that you can not be a committee chairman. That's why record numbers of house retirments happened this year. Over 40 seats were vacated by incumbent republicans making it easier for the dems to pick up seats. The positive effect of this is that the republicans will have younger leaders emerge from being ranking members, etc. because the old folks will be out of the way but on the other side it will still be Pelosi, Watters, Nadler, Cummings, etc still trying to milk the dems for another election.

[RiverDog]

One of Trump's first post election action was to fire his AG and replace him with a "loyalist." If the new AG or Trump himself interferes with the Mueller Investigation I'll be petitioning my representative to push for impeachment on the grounds of obstruction of justice.

[idhawkman]

One of Trump's first post election action was to fire his AG and replace him with a "loyalist." If the new AG or Trump himself interferes with the Mueller Investigation I'll be petitioning my representative to push for impeachment on the grounds of obstruction of justice.

And I'll be laughing at you the whole time. How can he obstruct justice by firing his AG? It is his constitutional right to fire anyone in the executive branch for any or no reason at all. Plus, his AG was not in charge of the Mueller investigation when he was fired.

[idhawkman]

By the way, I truly hope the Dems do try to impeach him over the next two years. It will turn out very badly for the dems in the house and Trump won't be removed by the Senate in the event that the dems do impeach him. That said, I don't think the dems will have enough votes to impeach in the house anyways unless the 30 new dem reps want to be back on the street in 2020. Remember, they will only have a 10 vote swing in the house. Pretty hard to hurd that many cats on almost any major issue like an impeachment.

[RiverDog]

How can he obstruct justice by firing his AG? It is his constitutional right to fire anyone in the executive branch for any or no reason at all. Plus, his AG was not in charge of the Mueller investigation when he was fired.

In all seriousness, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I did not say that I would support impeachment b/c he fired his AG. What I said was that I would support it if either he or is new AG were to interfere with the Muller investigation.

[RiverDog]

By the way, I truly hope the Dems do try to impeach him over the next two years. It will turn out very badly for the dems in the house and Trump won't be removed by the Senate in the event that the dems do impeach him. That said, I don't think the dems will have enough votes to impeach in the house anyways unless the 30 new dem reps want to be back on the street in 2020. Remember, they will only have a 10 vote swing in the house. Pretty hard to hurd that many cats on almost any major issue like an impeachment.

There certainly isn't enough support at this moment. But two R Senators just this morning sent Trump a warning:

Mitt Romney, R-elect UT: ...it is imperative that the important work of the Justice Department continues, and that the Mueller investigation proceeds to its conclusion unimpeded.

Lamar Alexander, R-TN: "The one thing this does make certain is that the Mueller investigation into Russian meddling in the elections will continue to its end, as it should, because no new attorney general can be confirmed who will stop that investigation"

But let me guess at your response: Romney and Alexander are Rino's.

[idhawkman]

In all seriousness, you need to work on your reading comprehension. I did not say that I would support impeachment b/c he fired his AG. What I said was that I would support it if either he or is new AG were to interfere with the Muller investigation.

I understood what you said but also apply logic based on public knowledge what is going to happen.

The new acting AG has already publicly stated that he will not allow Mueller to look into the finances of the Trump organization or family. He's also stated that he will dry up the Mueller investigation by starving it for money. So we already know that it will impact the Mueller witch hunt. We also know that the new acting AG is not confilicted in the same ways that Rosenstein is with all of this. Therefore, he will remove Rosenstein from the Mueller investigation if it hasn't already happened.

Bottom line, the games are going to end. Those people who have abused their power in the FBI and DOJ WILL be brought to justice and the witch hunt WILL end.

[idhawkman]

There certainly isn't enough support at this moment. But two R Senators just this morning sent Trump a warning:

Mitt Romney, R-elect UT: ...it is imperative that the important work of the Justice Department continues, and that the Mueller investigation proceeds to its conclusion unimpeded.

Lamar Alexander, R-TN: "The one thing this does make certain is that the Mueller investigation into Russian meddling in the elections will continue to its end, as it should, because no new attorney general can be confirmed who will stop that investigation"

But let me guess at your response: Romney and Alexander are Rino's.

C'mon, you know Romney's position on Trump but even with those two, it is a long way from removing a sitting President against the will of the people.

Regarding Lamar, he is right, the key words are: "THE RUSSIAN MEDLING" in the elections. So the new acting AG can still reign in the scope of the witch hunt significantly without disrupting the Russian probe. But then the scope may also be broadened to look into the democrat involvement in colluding with the Russians since that hasn't been investigated at all.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm with Idhawkman on this one. The Dems are engaging in a witch hunt with very little support. All that Mueller has found is old money laundering cases, some lying that the Clintons have done at least as much of, and other junk like fake FB accounts giving fake information which is par for the course and done by Americans daily and likely the Chinese. This case has been a giant waste of time and money intended to censor and control social media by the government to protect stupid Americans gullible enough to look to Facebook or social media for their election information. Nothing more than another sad testament to the nanny state the government wants to build because of the dumbest people in the nation that fall for this type of trash fearmongering.

[idhawkman]

I'm with Idhawkman on this one. The Dems are engaging in a witch hunt with very little support. All that Mueller has found is old money laundering cases, some lying that the Clintons have done at least as much of, and other junk like fake FB accounts giving fake information which is par for the course and done by Americans daily and likely the Chinese. This case has been a giant waste of time and money intended to censor and control social media by the government to protect stupid Americans gullible enough to look to Facebook or social media for their election information. Nothing more than another sad testament to the nanny state the government wants to build because of the dumbest people in the nation that fall for this type of trash fearmongering.

Thanks Asea.

One thing that I find fascinating is how this unfolded as a move - counter move type situation. Pelosi came out and strongly suggested with her "proper vigorous oversight" statement that they will be doing endless investigations and issuing sopoenas , etc. Trump then fired Sessions to knock that endless fishing expedition in the head and get the DOJ back on the Executive branch's side of things (Reno never recused herself from Clinton and no way Holder would ever abandon Obummer on any issue - not even fast and furious not to mention that he defied and is currently still in contempt of congress). So the dems are counterpunching by making statements that are just silly by Shumer, Pelosi, 12 democrat STATE AGs about the new guy having to recuse himself. Session may have been gullable enough to recuse himself erroneously but this new guy isn't. Swamp will get drained but it takes time to first remove the alligators.

[RiverDog]

C'mon, you know Romney's position on Trump but even with those two, it is a long way from removing a sitting President against the will of the people.

Yes, it is. But it's a signal that Trump not interfere with the Mueller probe. If he were to fire Mueller or shut down the probe, IMO there will be a severe reaction amongst R Senators.

Regarding Lamar, he is right, the key words are: "THE RUSSIAN MEDLING" in the elections. So the new acting AG can still reign in the scope of the witch hunt significantly without disrupting the Russian probe. But then the scope may also be broadened to look into the democrat involvement in colluding with the Russians since that hasn't been investigated at all.

According to you, those are the key words. IMO the key words are his last as he's summarizing his thoughts: "... because no new attorney general can be confirmed who will stop that investigation"

[Hawktawk]

Trump lost the house by the widest margin of Democratic pickups since watergate and with many races still too close to call that are breaking for democrats they may well pick up 40 seats. Nationwide between governorships (minus 8 with a florida recount that is breaking democratic) congress and state representatives critical to stuff such as eliminating gerrymandering trump had a net loss of nearly 400 elections nationwide .

As for the senate which was always a long shot due to the math of over twice as many dems running in red states to defend their seats it was a net gain of 3 Rs but with both the florida and Arizona races drawing near a dead heat with the florida dem within 1 5th % of the lead and the AZ dem actually up by 10,000 votes now it well may be a stalemate. Except not because anyone who thinks Romney is going to be a rubber stamp for the crazy orange witch or really any republican in the senate which are up for reelection in 20 is delusional enough to think the witch has actually been good for the party.

Even McConnell has said in the wake of Trump firing Sessions and replacing him with his Faux news commentator joe beefcake anti Mueller shill that the investigation into trump's conspiracy with our greatest geopolitical foe to overturn a presidential election will continue to its conclusion.

It was a drubbing for the witch and anyone who thinks otherwise is whistling in the graveyard.Even unabashed liberals such as Beto O'rourke in freaking TEXAS lost by a whisker. Witches own delusional rambling unhinged mentally ill press conference pacing around the stage, hurling insults and kicking out reporters shows he knows he got his @ss handed to him on a platter despite his false bravado. Google GWs and Obama's respectful press conferences after midterm losses and compare to what a repulsive ass clown this guy is.

And this all occurred despite some of the best economic fundamentals since the 60's. Neener Neener Trump party.

Party over for the ID Hawkman and the Trumptards of the world. Thank the lord the majority of the country does still have some sense of dignity and right and wrong concerning the behavior and actions of the most powerful man in the world who made the election all about himself.
As I've said if I was willing to vote for Dems despite hating the likes of Schumer and Pelosi I knew I wouldnt be alone. It isn't the ideology so much and it wasn't the economy stupid. It was about the detestable repugnant man....

[idhawkman]

Yes, it is. But it's a signal that Trump not interfere with the Mueller probe. If he were to fire Mueller or shut down the probe, IMO there will be a severe reaction amongst R Senators.

Which is why he won't fire Mueller. The acting AG will just dry up his funds and narrow his scope.

According to you, those are the key words. IMO the key words are his last as he's summarizing his thoughts: "... because no new attorney general can be confirmed who will stop that investigation"

Which again is why he has an acting AG and doesn't have to get a new one approved for 6 or more months when there are more senators to vote for such replacement.

[idhawkman]

Trump lost the house by the widest margin of Democratic pickups since watergate and with many races still too close to call that are breaking for democrats they may well pick up 40 seats. Nationwide between governorships (minus 8 with a florida recount that is breaking democratic) congress and state representatives critical to stuff such as eliminating gerrymandering trump had a net loss of nearly 400 elections nationwide .

Wow, I can't beleive you actually wrote this when no where close to that many ran on the trump agenda - which is the real reason many of them lost.

As for the senate which was always a long shot due to the math of over twice as many dems running in red states to defend their seats it was a net gain of 3 Rs but with both the florida and Arizona races drawing near a dead heat with the florida dem within 1 5th % of the lead and the AZ dem actually up by 10,000 votes now it well may be a stalemate. Except not because anyone who thinks Romney is going to be a rubber stamp for the crazy orange witch or really any republican in the senate which are up for reelection in 20 is delusional enough to think the witch has actually been good for the party.

So the math only works in the Senate and not the house races? That's a classic.

This isn't the Bush admin. There will be full investigations into the elections in both those states and people will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law if found to have committed fraud. So R-E-L-A-X, it will be sorted out correctly.

Even McConnell has said in the wake of Trump firing Sessions and replacing him with his Faux news commentator joe beefcake anti Mueller shill that the investigation into trump's conspiracy with our greatest geopolitical foe to overturn a presidential election will continue to its conclusion.

Yep, and it will show no collusion on the republican side. Now the investigation will be fair if anything.

It was a drubbing for the witch and anyone who thinks otherwise is whistling in the graveyard.Even unabashed liberals such as Beto O'rourke in freaking TEXAS lost by a whisker. Witches own delusional rambling unhinged mentally ill press conference pacing around the stage, hurling insults and kicking out reporters shows he knows he got his @ss handed to him on a platter despite his false bravado. Google GWs and Obama's respectful press conferences after midterm losses and compare to what a repulsive ass clown this guy is.

And thus you make the point. GW and Obama let the meddling happen and didn't make waves when there was election fraud happening. Trump is no go along to get along type of guy and will fight for what is right. The Rinos are leaving which was needed for the republican party and now the party is positioned to move forward without the dead weight.

And this all occurred despite some of the best economic fundamentals since the 60's. Neener Neener Trump party.

And you want me to believe you have conservative values? How old are you anyways?

Party over for the ID Hawkman and the Trumptards of the world. Thank the lord the majority of the country does still have some sense of dignity and right and wrong concerning the behavior and actions of the most powerful man in the world who made the election all about himself.
As I've said if I was willing to vote for Dems despite hating the likes of Schumer and Pelosi I knew I wouldnt be alone. It isn't the ideology so much and it wasn't the economy stupid. It was about the detestable repugnant man....

I actually thought you were middle aged but now I'm thinking maybe still in high school. Would it help if we all said, "sorry he hurt your feelings?"

[RiverDog]

So the math only works in the Senate and not the house races? That's a classic.

There is no math in the House, unless you want to call "100%" math. Every seat is up for re-election every two years. It's an evenly shuffled deck.

But there was, as always, math in the Senate that at times plays a major role. In this election, the math gave the R's a huge advantage going into the midterms. It was the dirty little secret of the 2016 election. In that Senatorial election, the D's had the math advantage as the R's had to defend 24 seats and the D's just 10, and thanks to Hillary, they blew it big time. Their opportunity to take over the Senate was in 2016, not 2018.

[idhawkman]

There is no math in the House, unless you want to call "100%" math. Every seat is up for re-election every two years. It's an evenly shuffled deck.

Actually no, its not. Did you even read the post about how the republicans limit chairmanships where the dems don't in the house. This is what led to over 40 republican retirements in the house this year. Are you trying to tell me that many if not most of those wouldn't have won another term?

But there was, as always, math in the Senate that at times plays a major role. In this election, the math gave the R's a huge advantage going into the midterms. It was the dirty little secret of the 2016 election. In that Senatorial election, the D's had the math advantage as the R's had to defend 24 seats and the D's just 10, and thanks to Hillary, they blew it big time. Their opportunity to take over the Senate was in 2016, not 2018.

Agree that math is a concern and real in the senate but it can also be a problem in the house as I've pointed out. Normally, since the Republicans don't hold the house long enough for the phenomenom that happened this year you just don't hear about the math. This was a gift from Obummer losing so many seats throughout his tenure.

[idhawkman]

A couple interesting charts showing how many more republican seats in the house were open seats compared to past years.


This one shows the math of how many more open seats from vacated or retiring repubs had to be defended this year.

REpubs_not_seeking_reelection.png (40.45 KiB) Viewed 4442 times

This one dispells the myth by HawkTalk about how bad Trump performed this mid term.

House_wave_losses.png (44.85 KiB) Viewed 4442 times

[RiverDog]

You have a valid point ala retirements, but even when you consider the numbers you provided, they pale in comparison to the math in the Senate. Those retiring seats represent less than 10% of the House, while in the Senate, the Dems had to defend over twice as many seats as the R's. Additionally, those seats were going to be up for re-election whether they retired or not. Granted, as a rule, an open seat has a better chance of being flipped than one defended by an incumbent, but if they're anything like the districts in my neck of the woods, all voters look for is the capital letter behind the name.

[burrrton]

I can't believe what I'm watching with the recounts.

At best, it's WA Gov 2004 all over again. At worst, it's, well, it's Broward County.

It's almost literally unbelievable.

[Aseahawkfan]

I can't believe what I'm watching with the recounts.

At best, it's WA Gov 2004 all over again. At worst, it's, well, it's Broward County.

It's almost literally unbelievable.

The scumbaggery will continue until our nation is either super right or super left. Too many middle people don't stand up enough to stop the loons.

[burrrton]

The scumbaggery will continue until our nation is either super right or super left. Too many middle people don't stand up enough to stop the loons.

I'm more optimistic than you about the most likely outcome, but hard to disagree with cynicism right now. This is a kangaroo-court/clown-show amalgam going on right now.

[burrrton]

"Whoops."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 52655.html

[Hawktawk]

[



I actually thought you were middle aged but now I'm thinking maybe still in high school. Would it help if we all said, "sorry he hurt your feelings?"[/quote]

Im 59 ID. Cast my first legal vote in 1978 and until last Tuesday I had NEVER cast a vote for a democrat. Yah its about the vile detestable repugnant POS infesting the west wing. Hurt my feelings? He makes me nauseated every time he opens his stupid semi senile mouth to insult and lie. There's never been a less qualified or dignified occupant of the position and that's saying something.

Honestly I don't even recognize the 40% who support the former republican party now the Trump party, the party of family values and fiscal sanity.What in the hell is wrong with you many otherwise decent intelligent people defending the indefensible? Why follow this faux emperor off the cliff like your party did last tuesday?Its a complete joke.

Keep whistling in the graveyard. If I'm not a canary in a coal mine along with the estimated 6 million people nationwide who preferred Dems over republicans I don't know what is. The real reckoning will come in 2020 or depending on how massive a rock Mueller drops on Witches head maybe sooner.

[Hawktawk]

"Whoops."

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/ ... 52655.html

Yeah well how about Brian Kemp the presumptive gov of Georgia running the election he was competing in as secretary of state and expunging over a million voters off the rolls and suppressing tens of thousands more in an election he won by a whisker over an ubnabashed liberal? it's a bipartisan slime pit at a minimum. Its why i voted for Gary Johnson. This crooked duopoly needs to go bye bye. Not that it will ever happen, it just should.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... li=BBnbfcL

Of course the 40% wont even bat an eye at the fact the president is already an unindicted co conspirator in 8 felonies related to setting up shell corporations, wire fraud etc to make payments for the express purpose of silencing women on the cusp of an election without tying it to the candidate. Unlike John Edwards in the day who was able to claim he was trying to hide his affair from his wife rather than the voters the paper trail and even Trump on tape discussing the payments makes clear the intent was to help win an election.

Just one of the many titbits of things that need investigated by the congress. There's something to investigate with the biggest slime ball ever to hold the office. Im looking forward to the tax returns, all of it.

Getcha popcorn.Bring on the mueller report which will be FUGLY and we will see how many Republican senators are truly going to stand by their man with 20-20 2 years away and a slew of them up for reelection.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-played-key-role-in-coordinating-hush-money-payments-to-daniels-mcdougal-report/ar-BBPwNO1?li=BBnbfcL

Of course the 40% wont even bat an eye at the fact the president is already an unindicted co conspirator in 8 felonies related to setting up shell corporations, wire fraud etc to make payments for the express purpose of silencing women on the cusp of an election without tying it to the candidate. Unlike John Edwards in the day who was able to claim he was trying to hide his affair from his wife rather than the voters the paper trail and even Trump on tape discussing the payments makes clear the intent was to help win an election.

Just one of the many titbits of things that need investigated by the congress. There's something to investigate with the biggest slime ball ever to hold the office. Im looking forward to the tax returns, all of it.

Getcha popcorn.Bring on the mueller report which will be FUGLY and we will see how many Republican senators are truly going to stand by their man with 20-20 2 years away and a slew of them up for reelection.

Hush money to women is about as common among politicians as corporate lobbying. I doubt that will be enough to take him out because it would bring down a bunch of Democrats as well. Mutual survival may cause them to seek another course. Finances are where things will get interesting.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm more optimistic than you about the most likely outcome, but hard to disagree with cynicism right now. This is a kangaroo-court/clown-show amalgam going on right now.

It's not just here either. It's all over the world. Canada left wing more insane than here. They have some law there that prosecutes people for failing to respect 23 or something forms of sexuality, only a few them biologically true. Young people are taking the idea of liberty to mean "make believe" the world into any form you feel it should be in with the left wing courts and politicians backing it up. Right wing racists and supremacists are flooding the right for their last kick of save "white racist culture." People in the middle don't have anywhere to go at the moment between these two loons with each party painting the other into a corner and anyone that supports their side.

Look at hawktawk, he keeps thinking the Trump supporters like the man and everything he does, when they only support him so vehemently in response to the constant extreme attacks on Trump by him and those like him. Both sides are literally giving no where to go and no one to support because they will both put extreme candidates into power to fight the other side because no one has reasonable answers to the questions being asked. The lefts no borders, tax and spend to death crap doesn't work nor does the give business lower taxes, close the borders, protectionism work. Hopefully now that these clowns have divided power, they can come to compromises that work.

As far as the future goes, I believe the younger generation is too uneducated and uncaring to manage the nation well. They have been raised on a bad economy while at the same time being spoiled and electronically addicted to their phones. I don't know how we managed such a state with a busted economy, but somehow they managed to both collapse the economy and have built up so much luxury into the system that the younger generation was spoiled with plentiful food, clothes, electronics, and entertainment while not having to work for it. It's like capitalism blending with socialism created this bounty that made Americans obese and overly lazy while giving them a strangely entitled worldview that this is how it should be. It was such a far cry from The Great Depression I can't believe it. It may eventually cost us if the debt causes us to go bankrupt, but at the moment it only skewed what a modern American considers a constant standard of living.

Heck, I'm old enough to remember when having a VCR and cable was a luxury. Now entertainment and electronics are so ubiquitous and cheap that entertainment of some kind for free or very cheap is just expected. America's like an MMORPG where the environment has been made easier and easier and easier with each generation.

[Hawktawk]

Hush money to women is about as common among politicians as corporate lobbying. I doubt that will be enough to take him out because it would bring down a bunch of Democrats as well. Mutual survival may cause them to seek another course. Finances are where things will get interesting.

There's hush money then there's hush money. Trump is on at least one tape we are aware of discussing setting up a SHAM corporation to funnel money into to pay off Karen McDougal. His former buddy with the national enquirer David Pecker (cant make this stuff up) has turned state's evidence, as has his former chief financial officer who has been with the organization since daddy was still running it. Cohen has already pled out to 8 FELONIES and named "a candidate for federal office" as having directed every step of it, exactly what this new reporting is saying.

Its a big deal. Its not John Edwards. And Cohens plea deal was in the state of new york which makes Trump's new hand picked anti Mueller AG a little bit handcuffed trying to weasel him out of that.

But I agree, Trump's financials are a much bigger threat although this was about finances as well. He went from a guy who was a bankruptcy acrobat 4 billion in debt in the 80s to a guy doing cash deals and financing golf properties that are hemorrhaging money by the multiple millions annually but the money doesn't stop flowing to them. Don Jr was asked in 2012 by a golf course writer how they were able to continue building and subsidizing lavish resorts in the down economic climate for golf development. He answered" we have a lot of money coming in from Russia". he has denied making the statement of course like he denied meeting with russians in trump tower until the Emails surfaced. As I've said repeatedly this is the most corrupt administration in history, most chilling is that they have conspired with Russia who has totally compromised the POTUS. If they get out of all of this we are a banana republic with no limits to the depths we will sink to.

[RiverDog]

I can't believe what I'm watching with the recounts.

At best, it's WA Gov 2004 all over again. At worst, it's, well, it's Broward County.

It's almost literally unbelievable.

Yea, isn't that something, like Florida didn't learn a damn thing since 2000.

On a slightly different subject, I do not like the "vote by mail" system here in WA. It makes it too easy. If a person isn't willing to make a modest sacrifice to drive or walk to a polling place, present themselves to a verifying authority, and cast their vote, then they are likely not very informed or care very much about their opinion. Plus there's absolutely no security, nothing to keep someone from signing their ballot and selling it to someone.

I always thought that the mechanical voting machines were the most secure, accurate, and dependable way to register a vote vs. the punch cards apparently still in use in Florida. They can be tested before voting and verified afterwards.

I also think that every voter should be required to produce some form of identification other than their signature before they are allowed to cast a vote.

[burrrton]

I also think that every voter should be required to produce some form of identification other than their signature before they are allowed to cast a vote.

"THAT MEANS UR RAYCISS!" -Progressives in 2018

[Hawktawk]

Rd mail in ballots must have a valid signature to be verified . That’s as good for me as anything . If it’s a close election they will be compared by hand . It’s what Georgia sec of state /election commissioner and now gov elect used to stack the deck in his favor by suspending voting rights of those whose on file signature bore even slight differences from that on signed ballots . When you look at multiple credible accounts of voters seeing votes changed to the opposing party before their eyes I’d say having a machine or computer count votes is the least reliable of all. Anything built with human hands will
Fail. The real tragedy the last few elections is the loss of confidence in the process by both parties.

[RiverDog]

Rd mail in ballots must have a valid signature to be verified . That’s as good for me as anything

There's nothing stopping your or me from signing our ballot and selling it to someone that will fill it in and vote for us. Although I don't think any actually get sold, I can easily see situations where a family member could register 4 or 5 of his relatives, get them to sign their ballots, and essentially vote that many times.

If it’s a close election they will be compared by hand .

Yea, like they compare your signature when you sign for a credit card purchase or the pharmacy compares the doctor's signature on your prescription. Gimme a break! Besides, who's going to do the comparison? Would you trust a Democrat checking signatures in a precinct he/she knows votes 80% Republican to be honest and objective?

Besides, signatures change over time. I've signed my signature so many times that it's nothing but a scribbled line anymore. I don't know when the last time I signed an updated signature card.

It’s what Georgia sec of state /election commissioner and now gov elect used to stack the deck in his favor by suspending voting rights of those whose on file signature bore even slight differences from that on signed ballots . When you look at multiple credible accounts of voters seeing votes changed to the opposing party before their eyes I’d say having a machine or computer count votes is the least reliable of all. Anything built with human hands will
Fail. The real tragedy the last few elections is the loss of confidence in the process by both parties.

I'm not talking about an electronic device. I agree, they could fail or be tampered with. I'm talking about the old mechanical voting machines, the ones I used to vote on before they went to mail in ballots. They didn't have a single wire in them. They can be tested and certified as accurate before and checked after polls close. If they are subsequently found to be flawed, the voters that used them could be contacted and told to re-vote, but I've never heard of one of those types of machines malfunctioning. They are very simple devices, no half punched hanging chads. No need to re-count, either, just double check the math used in adding up the results.

[RiverDog]

I also think that every voter should be required to produce some form of identification other than their signature before they are allowed to cast a vote.

"THAT MEANS UR RAYCISS!" -Progressives in 2018

Well, I might stop short on the photo ID Trump was proposing. It used to be that even a utility bill was enough to prove your identity. If they make photo ID's free and easy to obtain, then I could be talked into it. That's my biggest problem I have with the 100% vote-by-mail system. There is no way to positively identify who actually cast the ballot. It's bad enough that we had to accept no ID for absentee balloting.

[burrrton]

Well, I might stop short on the photo ID Trump was proposing.

I don't know what the h3ll he was proposing, but modern Progressives don't care whether it's Trump's specific proposal or literally *any* requirement to show identification- they'll call you racist for thinking it should be required period.

[RiverDog]

I don't know what the h3ll he was proposing, but modern Progressives don't care whether it's Trump's specific proposal or literally *any* requirement to show identification- they'll call you racist for thinking it should be required period.

Well, he really wasn't "proposing" anything, he was just lamenting the fact that people have to produce photo ID to buy groceries but not to vote, which isn't completely true. You have to produce photo ID to buy alcohol or tobacco product. Besides, I honestly question whether or not Trump has ever had to buy his own groceries.

I hear what you're saying about being accused of being a racist simply for insisting that you produce photo ID just like we have to do in so many situations, like going through a security checkpoint at an airport. I frankly don't give a rip if they levy such charges. We need to treat votes with the same degree of emphasis as we do at preventing any other type of fraud.