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This is by definition an off topic subject as it doesn't relate to Seahawk football, but hopefully our mods will allow it at least for a day or two to give our football minds a chance to comment on it:

Washington State lost out on over $1.5 million after football coach Mike Leach tweeted out a blatantly doctored video of President Barack Obama this summer.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaafb ... spartanntp

It's a bizarre story that I just heard about.

Bizarre is right. And timing couldn’t be more perfect to derail a good season.......

I dunno man, this is pretty political. He's very obviously taking his cues from a very political (and divisive) individual.

I never had much of an opinion on the guy but I do now, and it ain't good.

c_hawkbob wrote:I dunno man, this is pretty political. He's very obviously taking his cues from a very political (and divisive) individual.

I never had much of an opinion on the guy but I do now, and it ain't good.

I realize it's political, and apologize for starting it in this forum. I'll ask Yoder to move it in a few days. I just wanted a few of the others that know Leach to comment on it.

The guy has a strange personality to say the least. In one of his first games as HC at WSU, he made his entire offensive line come up in the post game press conference and apologise for their poor play. He reminds me a lot of Bobby Knight, of whom he was football HC at Texas Tech the same time Knight was coaching the men's basketball team. He eventually was fired at TT for his treatment of a player complaining of headaches.

1. Leach is a weird, weird guy- College Gameday sign: "OUR COACH IS WEIRDER THAN YOUR COACH!"

2. He deleted the retweet eventually, probably after he realized he'd (unsurprisingly) been duped.

3. The "lost $" wasn't lost $.

4. It wasn't *Leach's* faked video.

5. Did anyone think Leach was a big Obama fan?

This is like the kerfuffle about Pete being a 9-11 Truther.

burrrton wrote:1. Leach is a weird, weird guy- College Gameday sign: "OUR COACH IS WEIRDER THAN YOUR COACH!"

2. He deleted the retweet eventually, probably after he realized he'd (unsurprisingly) been duped.

3. The "lost $" wasn't lost $.

4. It wasn't *Leach's* faked video.

5. Did anyone think Leach was a big Obama fan?

This is like the kerfuffle about Pete being a 9-11 Truther.

I agree with everything except for #2. Two days after he deleted it, he said this:

Two days after that— and four days after tweeting the video — Leach gave an interview to the Seattle Times and said he was “not particularly sorry” for posting the video.

I don't think he ever realized he had been duped. I think that he so badly wanted the video to be true that he talked himself into believing that it was genuine.

He also got into it with a sportswriter, repeatedly challenging him to prove that the video was a fake.

Come on RD... you real think Mike Leach was duped into believing it was 'real' news??? Please! This guy is extremely smart, college degree and probably a masters to get this level of coaching job at a State institution. He knew what he had. Maybe he didn't realize the other side of the coin would bite him in the toosh, but he's always been a FOXey kind of guy and lucky he didn't lose his job in your extreme liberal state.

If anything, the power of the internet continues to show how petty people are. You're going to take away $$$ from an institution after you die because of something a Football coach poops on the internet? Get Real People

jshawaii22 wrote:Come on RD... you real think Mike Leach was duped into believing it was 'real' news???

Yes, I do think he was duped. Here's why:

All told, Leach asked Twitter users to “prove it” nine different times (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9) as he continued to march through the internet battlegrounds, conveniently missing the many people trying to provide him with proof the video he shared was fake.

This guy is extremely smart, college degree and probably a masters to get this level of coaching job at a State institution. He knew what he had. Maybe he didn't realize the other side of the coin would bite him in the toosh, but he's always been a FOXey kind of guy and lucky he didn't lose his job in your extreme liberal state.

No doubt he's smart, but even very intelligent people are subject to being duped if what they see corresponds with what they expect or want to see.

IMO it wasn't politics that kept his job safe. Leach has been very successful at a college that is in the backwaters of CFB and currently has his team in the hunt (longshot hunt, that is) for a playoff seed.

If anything, the power of the internet continues to show how petty people are. You're going to take away $$$ from an institution after you die because of something a Football coach poops on the internet? Get Real People

I don't know the details about the pledges that were withdrawn after news of this hit. Perhaps they decided there was a better, more appropriate charity for them to donate to. Perhaps some were influenced by Paul Allen's death and decided to contribute to his charity rather than to WSU. Who knows. But clearly, there were donors that were upset and decided to pull their funds. My understanding is that the school is working hard to get those donors back in the fold.

lucky he didn't lose his job in your extreme liberal state.

RD kinda covered this, but while there's no doubt the administration is typical academia, if they fired him over something as trivial as this, with WSU's alumni, funding would get pulled out so fast the WSU Foundation would collapse into a singularity and swallow the earth.

I don't think he ever realized he had been duped.

Fair, but the point is he did delete it whether he fully believes it or not.

I don't know the details about the pledges that were withdrawn after news of this hit.

This is the basis for the whole article, apparently:

“As the president mentioned, no one who had made a cash gift has asked for their money back. We did have five donors let us know that they had altered plans for their future giving, however. These were primarily estate gifts that would have been paid out upon the donor’s death. These planned estate gifts totaled $1.6 million.”

Compared to the stuff the POSOTUS tweets out daily it's trivial. It might have cost WSU a few million now but there are plenty of deep pocketed like minded individuals in the deep red eastern portion of the state who will likely make up the difference ASAP. At least he's a winner.

I care a lot more about politicians political beliefs and behaviors than football coaches...

Compared to the stuff the POSOTUS tweets out daily it's trivial.

Thanks for announcing to everyone in an unrelated thread that Trump still gives you a boner. We were wondering.

burrrton wrote:I don't think he ever realized he had been duped.

Fair, but the point is he did delete it whether he fully believes it or not.

Even after he deleted the video, he said that he didn't regret posting it, so unless we want to assign an even more serious and sinister motive, ie that he knowingly distributes material about a private citizen he knows to be phony, I don't think he deleted it because he realized he'd been duped.

I don't know the details about the pledges that were withdrawn after news of this hit.

This is the basis for the whole article, apparently:

“As the president mentioned, no one who had made a cash gift has asked for their money back. We did have five donors let us know that they had altered plans for their future giving, however. These were primarily estate gifts that would have been paid out upon the donor’s death. These planned estate gifts totaled $1.6 million.”

Yea, I read that part, too. That revelation made the headline a little misleading by stating that the school 'lost' money. You can't lose something that you never had. What they lost was pledges.

But losing the pledges isn't what concerns me. It's his posting stuff on the internet that if he knows to be false, could be considered libel. That type of behavior, no matter who the subject is, can't be tolerated.

Hawktawk wrote:Compared to the stuff the POSOTUS tweets out daily it's trivial. It might have cost WSU a few million now but there are plenty of deep pocketed like minded individuals in the deep red eastern portion of the state who will likely make up the difference ASAP. At least he's a winner.

I care a lot more about politicians political beliefs and behaviors than football coaches...

Let's hold off on the political part of the discussion. I asked Yoder to move the thread in a couple of days, so let's wait until it gets moved before we turn it in that direction.

burrrton wrote:
Thanks for announcing to everyone in an unrelated thread that Trump still gives you a boner. We were wondering.

LOL I think he gives you a bigger one since you love jumping my S##t every time I mention him.

My point is follow the leader Burt. Its a political thread obviously. Its an apt comparison

Who sets the tone for the right wing Trumptard loons of which Leach is one? ? He didnt lose his mind when Trump got elected though. Its been gone a while.

Hawktalk would you please wait until we can get the thread moved to off topic before you start talking politics. Some posters don't like these types of discussions in a football forum. I only started it here to get the takes of some of our great football minds like JS and have asked that it be moved.

RiverDog wrote:Hawktalk would you please wait until we can get the thread moved to off topic before you start talking politics. Some posters don't like these types of discussions in a football forum. I only started it here to get the takes of some of our great football minds like JS and have asked that it be moved.

Yeah Just read that RD. Just sick of Mr high minded Burrton knows best jumping down my throat to defend his secret BFFEAE all the time. As for Leach and the Cougs 69-28, Minshew 473 yards 7 TD's and 0 picks looks like the man knows how to coach up players and he can tweet whatever he wants

Thanks for moving the thread, Yoder. I got the responses I wanted.

Leach has always been a very strange customer. He's a great football coach, but his treatment of players has been questioned. He was fired at Texas Tech for mistreatment of a player that reported concussion-like symptoms. If I recall correctly, he was a finalist for the HC job at UW a few years back and withdrew his application after a couple of weeks when the school didn't get back with him quickly enough to suit him.

Great game on tap this Friday with the Apple Cup matchup. It's very unlikely that the Cougs can get into the CFB playoffs, but a trip to the conference championship game and if they're successful there, the Rose Bowl, is at stake for both teams.

OK, Hawktalk, the floor is yours!

The school may have lost 1.6 mil from some donors but they might pick up that much or more from donors on the right side (excuse the pun) of the political divide.

Also, to put this in perspective, what's the big deal? We just got through watch months of television news and commercials that repeatedly took things out of context said by candidates on both sides of the political divide and no one bats an eye.

trents wrote:The school may have lost 1.6 mil from some donors but they might pick up that much or more from donors on the right side (excuse the pun) of the political divide.

Also, to put this in perspective, what's the big deal? We just got through watch months of television news and commercials that repeatedly took things out of context said by candidates on both sides of the political divide and no one bats an eye.

The "big deal" is that Leach, in addition to his football coaching duties, is a paid representative of WSU, and they have a right to insist that he keep his politics to himself. The school has an interest in remaining non partisan, not just to attract pledges, but to maintain their acedemic credibility. That's why you don't often see active football coaches campaigning for or even appearing with candidates for public office.

But school officials already stated that Leach as a private citizen has a right to express his opinion just as anyone else does. It would have been different had he postured himself as speaking for the school. Otherwise, you would have to conclude that anyone on the government dole cannot tweet a personal opinion and so does not have first amendment rights. I would admit, however, it might not have been a smart thing to do so in his situation.

I'm going to bed cause I have to work early tomorrow, but this thread is interesting to me. What you say and do matters at WSU. Political or not, if the donors don't agree with you, youre job can disappear pretty quick. Just look at Rob Wielgus and his story. Not saying this is the same thing, Leach completely turned around a depleted program. Helz, this year was supposed to be a rebuilding year with a no name rental qb according to the analysts at the start of the season. It's interesting to me how if someone says something others disagree with, their entire career is destroyed despite everything they have accomplished for the program letting them go.

trents wrote:But school officials already stated that Leach as a private citizen has a right to express his opinion just as anyone else does. It would have been different had he postured himself as speaking for the school. Otherwise, you would have to conclude that anyone on the government dole cannot tweet a personal opinion and so does not have first amendment rights. I would admit, however, it might not have been a smart thing to do so in his situation.

The school might have said that publicly in order to distance themselves from his remarks, but trust me, there are personal conduct clauses in coaches contracts that prohibit the type of behavior Leach demonstrated. About 20 years ago at Alabama, former WSU HC Mike Price was let go before he even coached a game due to a violation of his contract stemming from his behavior (partying with strippers) as he brought a lot of negative publicity on the school. There is no doubt in my mind that WSU could have disciplined Leach for a breach of his contract had they chosen to do so.

Mike Leach is not your garden variety government (university) employee. He's a high profile major college football coach that signed a $2 million contract with the school. The vast majority of government employees do not sign these types of agreements and are not subject to the same personal conduct standards as are a head football coach.

Additionally, this wasn't just Leach expressing his opinion. He was distributing a falsified video of a former POTUS. He was engaging in slanderous behavior.

A former high school classmate of mine with close ties to WSU told me that the "school's position was that he did it as a private citizen and with ignorance, basically forgave him conditionally." You can take that for what it's worth.

EmeraldBullet wrote:I'm going to bed cause I have to work early tomorrow, but this thread is interesting to me. What you say and do matters at WSU. Political or not, if the donors don't agree with you, youre job can disappear pretty quick. Just look at Rob Wielgus and his story. Not saying this is the same thing, Leach completely turned around a depleted program. Helz, this year was supposed to be a rebuilding year with a no name rental qb according to the analysts at the start of the season. It's interesting to me how if someone says something others disagree with, their entire career is destroyed despite everything they have accomplished for the program letting them go.

Interesting story about Rob Wielgus. I hadn't heard about it before you mentioned it. Here's the article, it's a good read:

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2018/f ... ion-lab-d/

No doubt Leach's success was a major factor in this latest controversy. Had his teams not performed as they have, they probably would have used this incident as a pretense to get out of the contract.