HawkShack.com

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rosecutors.

Interestingly not a lot of tweets by the POTUS about this one. Blatant corruption and influence peddling in plain view.

So another article of possibilities with nothing yet concrete to work with. I get so tired of these. It most certainly is an inquisition and a witch hunt. Why they try to make it seem like this is anything but Democrats using whatever petty power they have to go after Trump? No one with any sense believes this is anything more than political payback and grandstanding by the Democrats. This is the ultimate in petty by the Dems. I hope the Republicans fully repay it to them for years. Every single dark crime by any Democrat needs to be brought out in public, all their finances attacked, and all of this behavior by the Democrats needs to be paid back. I hope the Democrats reap it in the coming years for this trash.

Aseahawkfan wrote:So another article of possibilities with nothing yet concrete to work with. I get so tired of these. It most certainly is an inquisition and a witch hunt. Why they try to make it seem like this is anything but Democrats using whatever petty power they have to go after Trump? No one with any sense believes this is anything more than political payback and grandstanding by the Democrats. This is the ultimate in petty by the Dems. I hope the Republicans fully repay it to them for years. Every single dark crime by any Democrat needs to be brought out in public, all their finances attacked, and all of this behavior by the Democrats needs to be paid back. I hope the Democrats reap it in the coming years for this trash.

Asea this is the southern district of New York . It’s chock full of republican judges, prosecutors etc. it has nothing to do with Republican Bob mueller and nothing to do with democratic investigations in the house . For a guy who says he’s in the middle and objective you sure defend trump using his very own tweeting points quite often .

Aseahawkfan wrote:So another article of possibilities with nothing yet concrete to work with. I get so tired of these. It most certainly is an inquisition and a witch hunt. Why they try to make it seem like this is anything but Democrats using whatever petty power they have to go after Trump? No one with any sense believes this is anything more than political payback and grandstanding by the Democrats. This is the ultimate in petty by the Dems. I hope the Republicans fully repay it to them for years. Every single dark crime by any Democrat needs to be brought out in public, all their finances attacked, and all of this behavior by the Democrats needs to be paid back. I hope the Democrats reap it in the coming years for this trash.

You might as well get used to it as it's going to be stories like this one that will dominate the news over the course of the next two years. This story is just the tip of the iceberg.

You have to keep in mind that Trump is a novice when it comes to politics. He was never fully vetted like other politicians before him and nothing he did in his past, whether it was his business dealings or personal activities, was done with the thought that one day he might be living in the fish bowl.

I'm actually enjoying it. As Idahawk would say...get out your popcorn!

You do realize that "nothing yet concrete to work with" is every bit as unfounded an assumption as "they got the goods on him for sure now", right?

c_hawkbob wrote:You do realize that "nothing yet concrete to work with" is every bit as unfounded an assumption as "they got the goods on him for sure now", right?

At this point, I'm of the opinion that there's a lot of "goods" in multiple aspects of Trump's campaign. We already know that he, or rather his surrogates, paid off two women not to go public with his extra marital affairs with him prior to the election, and we know that he and/or his surrogates have lied about their meetings with the Russians and the election meddling. And as HT points out, there's a good chance that more close Trump associates, perhaps even his family members, might get ensnared in this apparent influencing peddling involving the inaguration ceremony.

Now there's a breaking story over the weekend involving Jeff Bezos and a possible motive for an alleged blackmail attempt against him made by the parent company of the National Enquirer (owned by a close friend of Trump's) and the Saudi government:

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-a ... rer-2019-2

As we know, Trump all but exonerated the Saudi's of what just about everybody in the world, including our own intelligences services, know for a fact, that they were complicit in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post employee. The Post is own by Bezos and is a frequent burr under Trump's saddle. The Saudis are accused of being a player in this supposed influencing peddling saga that the SDNY is pursuing. Is there a connection?

So yes, there's nothing concrete to go on yet, at least nothing that we know of. But there's sure one heck of a lot of smoke swirling around Donald Trump. Like I said above, it's the tip of an iceberg. It's going to get worse for Trump before it gets better...a lot worse.

I agree, there's just too much there for it all to be fake news ... and as the indictments hit closer and closer to center mass I imagine it's only a matter of time until the dots are connected for us all. I'm willing to wait till then to get definitive about things.

c_hawkbob wrote:I agree, there's just too much there for it all to be fake news ... and as the indictments hit closer and closer to center mass I imagine it's only a matter of time until the dots are connected for us all. I'm willing to wait till then to get definitive about things.

I'm not sure we'll see the dots all connected into one center mass ala Watergate. IMO we'll see an assortment of connecting dots in multiple scandals that lead back to Trump...the hush money to the bimbos, the election interference with the Russians, the influence peddling with the Saudis, perhaps a few more. They're all serious charges, but they're not related, so it's going to be difficult to lump them all into one coherent, understandable, impeachment-worthy charge that's going to turn the middle of the road public opinion, and with them 20 R Senators, against Trump.

If all that plays out and the connected dots all lead back to Trump, I personally think that the cumulative effect is worthy of removing the POS from office based on general principles (one of my old man's favorite terms). I just don't agree with you in that it's going to be sufficient to do the trick.

RiverDog wrote:At this point, I'm of the opinion that there's a lot of "goods" in multiple aspects of Trump's campaign. We already know that he, or rather his surrogates, paid off two women not to go public with his extra marital affairs with him prior to the election, and we know that he and/or his surrogates have lied about their meetings with the Russians and the election meddling. And as HT points out, there's a good chance that more close Trump associates, perhaps even his family members, might get ensnared in this apparent influencing peddling involving the inaguration ceremony.

Now there's a breaking story over the weekend involving Jeff Bezos and a possible motive for an alleged blackmail attempt against him made by the parent company of the National Enquirer (owned by a close friend of Trump's) and the Saudi government:

https://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-a ... rer-2019-2

As we know, Trump all but exonerated the Saudi's of what just about everybody in the world, including our own intelligences services, know for a fact, that they were complicit in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, a Washington Post employee. The Post is own by Bezos and is a frequent burr under Trump's saddle. The Saudis are accused of being a player in this supposed influencing peddling saga that the SDNY is pursuing. Is there a connection?

So yes, there's nothing concrete to go on yet, at least nothing that we know of. But there's sure one heck of a lot of smoke swirling around Donald Trump. Like I said above, it's the tip of an iceberg. It's going to get worse for Trump before it gets better...a lot worse.

Trump exonerated? Please do not make it seem like Trump did anything we haven't been doing for years with Saudi Arabia.

RiverDog wrote:I'm not sure we'll see the dots all connected into one center mass ala Watergate. IMO we'll see an assortment of connecting dots in multiple scandals that lead back to Trump...the hush money to the bimbos, the election interference with the Russians, the influence peddling with the Saudis, perhaps a few more. They're all serious charges, but they're not related, so it's going to be difficult to lump them all into one coherent, understandable, impeachment-worthy charge that's going to turn the middle of the road public opinion, and with them 20 R Senators, against Trump.

If all that plays out and the connected dots all lead back to Trump, I personally think that the cumulative effect is worthy of removing the POS from office based on general principles (one of my old man's favorite terms). I just don't agree with you in that it's going to be sufficient to do the trick.

And how is this much different than most other candidates do? I'm still not getting it. I haven't seen a single story that goes above what other politicians have done over and over again including Bill Clinton or Reagan. Did you read on the wheeling and dealing by Reagan with the Iranians prior to taking office? I'm not quite getting what you're talking about. The only difference here seems to be the Republicans aren't as supportive of Trump as other candidates and aren't as aggressive in defeating the opposition.

If we're going to crawl up politicians asses, then we need to do all of them, not just pick a guy the parties hate and crawl up into him. From here on out, if you want to run for president you need in-depth investigations into your finances and everything you do just like Trump. With all the laws on the books, let's see who can withstand it and if they make a good president. Let's play games and waste money every time.

RiverDog wrote:I'm not sure we'll see the dots all connected into one center mass ala Watergate. IMO we'll see an assortment of connecting dots in multiple scandals that lead back to Trump...the hush money to the bimbos, the election interference with the Russians, the influence peddling with the Saudis, perhaps a few more. They're all serious charges, but they're not related, so it's going to be difficult to lump them all into one coherent, understandable, impeachment-worthy charge that's going to turn the middle of the road public opinion, and with them 20 R Senators, against Trump.

If all that plays out and the connected dots all lead back to Trump, I personally think that the cumulative effect is worthy of removing the POS from office based on general principles (one of my old man's favorite terms). I just don't agree with you in that it's going to be sufficient to do the trick.

Aseahawkfan wrote:And how is this much different than most other candidates do? I'm still not getting it. I haven't seen a single story that goes above what other politicians have done over and over again including Bill Clinton or Reagan. Did you read on the wheeling and dealing by Reagan with the Iranians prior to taking office? I'm not quite getting what you're talking about. The only difference here seems to be the Republicans aren't as supportive of Trump as other candidates and aren't as aggressive in defeating the opposition.

If we're going to crawl up politicians asses, then we need to do all of them, not just pick a guy the parties hate and crawl up into him. From here on out, if you want to run for president you need in-depth investigations into your finances and everything you do just like Trump. With all the laws on the books, let's see who can withstand it and if they make a good president. Let's play games and waste money every time.

I would assume that the incident you are referring to about Reagan's "wheeling and dealing" prior to taking office was the "October surprise", which was never proven. Both houses of Congress held separate investigations into the rumors and couldn't come up with anything tangible, a big nothing burger. Clinton had plenty of scandals beyond his most memorable one over which he got impeached for, but only Whitewater, which occurred before the election, did anyone go to jail over them. Trump's scandals all have to do with either his election or influence peddling as President or President-elect, and people are going to jail over them. That's the difference.

As I mentioned, Trump is unique to other politicians as he has not been vetted. Most others, for better or worse, are career politicians, either through their own assentation like Clinton or through their family ties like Bush. Their closets have already been pretty much been gone through before they even become a candidate and they are very conscious of the pitfalls associated with living in the fish bowl. Trump has never had to deal with such scrutiny, nor was his career fashioned with public office as an objective. I wouldn't be surprised if several other scandals pop up before these next two years are up.

I know this post, like most political posts won’t change anyone’s mind which is why I hate posting in political threads, but let’s look at the facts.

The Mueller/SDNY has sure caught a lot of witches of late, all connected to Trump. Lots of indictments, arrests, and guilty pleas and the other shoe is yet to drop.

I hate Hillary Clinton with a passion but the Trey Gordy led Benghazi investigation found nothing over 2 years.

Also Mueller and Rosenstein are REPUBLICANS, like it or not.

Trump isn’t any kind of victim here, and is likely a Russian asset.
Don’t believe me either, watch it unfold.

RiverDog wrote:I would assume that the incident you are referring to about Reagan's "wheeling and dealing" prior to taking office was the "October surprise", which was never proven. Both houses of Congress held separate investigations into the rumors and couldn't come up with anything tangible, a big nothing burger. Clinton had plenty of scandals beyond his most memorable one over which he got impeached for, but only Whitewater, which occurred before the election, did anyone go to jail over them. Trump's scandals all have to do with either his election or influence peddling as President or President-elect, and people are going to jail over them. That's the difference.

As I mentioned, Trump is unique to other politicians as he has not been vetted. Most others, for better or worse, are career politicians, either through their own assentation like Clinton or through their family ties like Bush. Their closets have already been pretty much been gone through before they even become a candidate and they are very conscious of the pitfalls associated with living in the fish bowl. Trump has never had to deal with such scrutiny, nor was his career fashioned with public office as an objective. I wouldn't be surprised if several other scandals pop up before these next two years are up.

What have they found? A bunch of corruption unrelated to Trump. Most of the indictments I see at the moment are from other crimes found. Paying out women? You really think if they checked politicians they wouldn't find a ton of that?

They are crawling up Trump's ass because both parties have people in them that don't like Trump. They are abusing the power of government to target one guy. All the charges I see pushed right now are mostly tied to charges outside of Trump. Most of the major charges from Russian associations long ago. Cohen was for some crime he was doing on his own. And tons of other crap that is getting dragged in the incredibly wide swath they put out there. You don't think other politicians would have the same?

Clinton avoided much of what was done because Janet Reno was a bulldog that shutdown investigations and supported the Clintons without question. Unfortunately for Trump he got Jeff Sessions, a black and white moralist doing what he thought was right. The Clintons got away with a ton they were never convicted of equal to everything I've seen Trump accused of. Not sure why you think that isn't the case. The fact is they held enough power in Washington to push everything off them. I'm betting they likely had blackmail on a lot of people to avoid the costs and Trump isn't getting the same support from his party for the reasons you stated: he's an outsider.

And the "October Surprise" found nothing? Yeah, right. You really believe that? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you in San Francisco. Reagan had the Bush's backing him, the ex-director of the CIA and one of the most powerful families in America. Of course no one one in Congress or any government agency is going to cross that. Give it a rest.

Fact is Trump isn't in with the Republican power base and is paying the price. If he were deeply ingrained with the Republican powers, things would be getting buried. His biggest problem is thinking he didn't have to play the game.

Sports Hernia wrote:I know this post, like most political posts won’t change anyone’s mind which is why I hate posting in political threads, but let’s look at the facts.

The Mueller/SDNY has sure caught a lot of witches of late, all connected to Trump. Lots of indictments, arrests, and guilty pleas and the other shoe is yet to drop.

I hate Hillary Clinton with a passion but the Trey Gordy led Benghazi investigation found nothing over 2 years.

Also Mueller and Rosenstein are REPUBLICANS, like it or not.

Trump isn’t any kind of victim here, and is likely a Russian asset.
Don’t believe me either, watch it unfold.

More BS. They better get to it. Time is running down. Let's see some charges and get it going if he's a Russian asset. Right now I see nothing but some payouts to women and a New York AG going overboard going after his finances because Trump employed a dirty lawyer and the Democratic power in New York wants to take him down. Which the Clintons are a part of.

I'm no Trump fan, but this has reached BS levels. And needs to wind up as it's doing nothing but damaging the presidency further and wasting time and money.

Riverdog

If this isn't a partisan attack, I want you to explain to me how a Russian election tampering investigation turned into a complete and total attack on Trump's finances? You think that wasn't the target the entire time by the Democrats with their "hate the rich" base? Even you take shots at Trump for his wealth. Fact is this was always aimed at his finances, the real source of taking him down. The Russian collusion rubbish was just a way to inspect his finances.

Seriously, let's look at this evidence so far:

1. Trump paid off some women for what is chump change to him, but may have been done with campaign funds to keep it quiet or something.

2. This article is talking about some inauguration payments that may have been questionable. But nothing concrete once again.

3. There is some meeting with the Russians to give some dirt on the Hilary campaign. This is completely normal for campaigns as evidenced by Hilary Clinton purchasing intel from a foreign agent as well. This is literally business as usual. I haven't heard a peep from the media or the Dems concerning Hilary hiring a foreign agent likely using contacts in foreign governments to dig up dirt on Trump. Not a peep.

4. Russians interfered in the election with a social media campaign with misinformation. This happens from various sources all the time for nearly everything. If you're using social media as your information source, you're an idiot. You can't legislate against a person being an idiot, though I see them attempting it.

5. Former associates like Manafort, Gates, and Cohen brought up on charges for unrelated crimes from years ago. Some prior to their association with Trump.

6. Roger Stone: Brought in for questioning on some email charges that are not yet clear.

7. SDNY crawling up Trump's ass because the New York AG was pretty much looking for any reason to attack Trump because Democratic power runs New York like Michael Bloomberg.

So what else am I missing other than the voluminous speculations on Trump? How is this not a partisan attack?

Aseahawkfan wrote:If this isn't a partisan attack, I want you to explain to me how a Russian election tampering investigation turned into a complete and total attack on Trump's finances? You think that wasn't the target the entire time by the Democrats with their "hate the rich" base? Even you take shots at Trump for his wealth. Fact is this was always aimed at his finances, the real source of taking him down. The Russian collusion rubbish was just a way to inspect his finances.

Seriously, let's look at this evidence so far:

1. Trump paid off some women for what is chump change to him, but may have been done with campaign funds to keep it quiet or something.

If Trump knew about it and that it was illegal, then it's not just some random campaign violation, it's a felony charge.

Aseahawkfan wrote:2. This article is talking about some inauguration payments that may have been questionable. But nothing concrete once again.

"Some" inauguration payments? The accusation is influence peddling, and one of those that might be involved is a government that you loathe, ie the Saudis. Of course, there's nothing concrete yet. It's a relatively new development, so let's wait and see.

Aseahawkfan wrote:3. There is some meeting with the Russians to give some dirt on the Hilary campaign. This is completely normal for campaigns as evidenced by Hilary Clinton purchasing intel from a foreign agent as well. This is literally business as usual. I haven't heard a peep from the media or the Dems concerning Hilary hiring a foreign agent likely using contacts in foreign governments to dig up dirt on Trump. Not a peep.

Hillary isn't the POTUS, Trump is. I've often remarked that had Hillary been elected, she'd be up to her panties in some sort of scandal, which is why I didn't vote for her. But I'm not going to agree with you that conspiring with a hostile power (if proven) to influence an election is "business as usual". Besides, even if other pols, including HRC, did in the past what Trump is accused of, that doesn't justify Trump's behavior. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Aseahawkfan wrote:4. Russians interfered in the election with a social media campaign with misinformation. This happens from various sources all the time for nearly everything. If you're using social media as your information source, you're an idiot. You can't legislate against a person being an idiot, though I see them attempting it.

Agreed. Guess where Trump gets the majority of his information? It's no wonder how he can come up with such outlandish claims, his latest coming in the SOTU address about crime in El Paso, when the man spends more time on Twitter than he does with his own staff.

Aseahawkfan wrote:5. Former associates like Manafort, Gates, and Cohen brought up on charges for unrelated crimes from years ago. Some prior to their association with Trump.

It's a common tactic used by prosecutors at all levels in order to force a reluctant witness to testify. Besides, a lot of the charges ARE directly related to Trump and/or the Trump campaign.

Aseahawkfan wrote:6. Roger Stone: Brought in for questioning on some email charges that are not yet clear.

The charges are that he lied to Mueller's investigators. What's he hiding?

Aseahawkfan wrote:7. SDNY crawling up Trump's ass because the New York AG was pretty much looking for any reason to attack Trump because Democratic power runs New York like Michael Bloomberg.

The reason why SDNY is the main investigative force (outside of Mueller) looking into Trump's activities is because that's where Trump did most of his business. His personal lawyer and long time fixer has already plead guilty to their charges involving campaign finance violations. Keep in mind that SDNY is part of the federal court system and not associated with the State of NY or their local politics. It is a part of Trump's own Justice Department.

Aseahawkfan wrote:So what else am I missing other than the voluminous speculations on Trump? How is this not a partisan attack?

Of course, a lot of it is partisan, I never said that it wasn't. But Bob Mueller is a man that before his appointment to special prosecutor, had impecable credentials and was well respected on both sides of the aisle. He is not a partisan hack. Trump has only himself to blame for his troubles. In his entire career, he's never had to worry about the type of scrutiny that goes with the territory of being a public official in an elective office.

A lot of people are anxious for Mueller to wrap up his investigation. But when he has witness after witness come before his team and lie their asses off to them, it throws them off track and causes them to spend more time to unravel their lies and get to the truth. If Trump's friends and associates were more cooperative and more honest, Mueller might have been finished with his report by now.

Sports Hernia wrote:I know this post, like most political posts won’t change anyone’s mind which is why I hate posting in political threads, but let’s look at the facts.

The Mueller/SDNY has sure caught a lot of witches of late, all connected to Trump. Lots of indictments, arrests, and guilty pleas and the other shoe is yet to drop.

I hate Hillary Clinton with a passion but the Trey Gordy led Benghazi investigation found nothing over 2 years.

Also Mueller and Rosenstein are REPUBLICANS, like it or not.

Trump isn’t any kind of victim here, and is likely a Russian asset.
Don’t believe me either, watch it unfold.

Nice work sports hernia. Couldn't have said it better and I've tried lots of times.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I would assume that the incident you are referring to about Reagan's "wheeling and dealing" prior to taking office was the "October surprise", which was never proven. Both houses of Congress held separate investigations into the rumors and couldn't come up with anything tangible, a big nothing burger. Clinton had plenty of scandals beyond his most memorable one over which he got impeached for, but only Whitewater, which occurred before the election, did anyone go to jail over them. Trump's scandals all have to do with either his election or influence peddling as President or President-elect, and people are going to jail over them. That's the difference.

As I mentioned, Trump is unique to other politicians as he has not been vetted. Most others, for better or worse, are career politicians, either through their own assentation like Clinton or through their family ties like Bush. Their closets have already been pretty much been gone through before they even become a candidate and they are very conscious of the pitfalls associated with living in the fish bowl. Trump has never had to deal with such scrutiny, nor was his career fashioned with public office as an objective. I wouldn't be surprised if several other scandals pop up before these next two years are up.

What have they found? A bunch of corruption unrelated to Trump. Most of the indictments I see at the moment are from other crimes found. Paying out women? You really think if they checked politicians they wouldn't find a ton of that?

They are crawling up Trump's ass because both parties have people in them that don't like Trump. They are abusing the power of government to target one guy. All the charges I see pushed right now are mostly tied to charges outside of Trump. Most of the major charges from Russian associations long ago. Cohen was for some crime he was doing on his own. And tons of other crap that is getting dragged in the incredibly wide swath they put out there. You don't think other politicians would have the same?

Clinton avoided much of what was done because Janet Reno was a bulldog that shutdown investigations and supported the Clintons without question. Unfortunately for Trump he got Jeff Sessions, a black and white moralist doing what he thought was right. The Clintons got away with a ton they were never convicted of equal to everything I've seen Trump accused of. Not sure why you think that isn't the case. The fact is they held enough power in Washington to push everything off them. I'm betting they likely had blackmail on a lot of people to avoid the costs and Trump isn't getting the same support from his party for the reasons you stated: he's an outsider.

And the "October Surprise" found nothing? Yeah, right. You really believe that? If you do, I have a bridge to sell you in San Francisco. Reagan had the Bush's backing him, the ex-director of the CIA and one of the most powerful families in America. Of course no one one in Congress or any government agency is going to cross that. Give it a rest.

Fact is Trump isn't in with the Republican power base and is paying the price. If he were deeply ingrained with the Republican powers, things would be getting buried. His biggest problem is thinking he didn't have to play the game.

You say you are not a Trump fan but all you do is defend him, so I have a hard time believing that statement.

Also those that are indicted, or plead guilty not having any Trump connections, is BS.
His former personal lawyer is going to prison for 3 years, and many individuals in his campaign or businesses are facing prison time. Heck, his son, daughter, and son in law are in deep doo. Those are FACTS.

I didn’t expect to change a hardcore partisans mind, as you choose not to view reality. Your loss, but that’s your prerogative.

Don’t take my word for it, Watch what happens, you are not going to like the result I have a feeling.

The last word is yours as I’m not a fan of circular political arguments because minds are never changed.

PS. Have you done your taxes yet? Your promised Trump “tax cut” is actually huge tax increase unless you are the 1% or are a major corporation. Again don’t believe me, look at your refund check / tax bill.

Hawktawk wrote:I know this post, like most political posts won’t change anyone’s mind which is why I hate posting in political threads, but let’s look at the facts.

The Mueller/SDNY has sure caught a lot of witches of late, all connected to Trump. Lots of indictments, arrests, and guilty pleas and the other shoe is yet to drop.

I hate Hillary Clinton with a passion but the Trey Gordy led Benghazi investigation found nothing over 2 years.

Also Mueller and Rosenstein are REPUBLICANS, like it or not.

Trump isn’t any kind of victim here, and is likely a Russian asset.
Don’t believe me either, watch it unfold.

Nice work sports hernia. Couldn't have said it better and I've tried lots of times.

Thanks.
I could go on and on about things I hate about the Democratic Party as well and we wouldn’t have to go far (see state and local - Seattle politics). Taxing us to death thru sales taxes, license tabs, property taxes,’liquor taxes.....throwing taxpayer money at problems without thinking solutions thru, making laws trying to save people from themselves (soda tax etc etc), shrinking car lanes to make bike lanes etc etc.

I decided a long time ago not to get married to a politcal party.
I’ve never voted a straight party ticket until the last midterm election.

I’m hoping the Real deal GOP’ers save their party from the cancer of Trump, but im not sure their is enough of them left to do so.

Aseahawkfan wrote:
If this isn't a partisan attack, I want you to explain to me how a Russian election tampering investigation turned into a complete and total attack on Trump's finances? You think that wasn't the target the entire time by the Democrats with their "hate the rich" base? Even you take shots at Trump for his wealth. Fact is this was always aimed at his finances, the real source of taking him down. The Russian collusion rubbish was just a way to inspect his finances.

Seriously, let's look at this evidence so far:

1. Trump paid off some women for what is chump change to him, but may have been done with campaign funds to keep it quiet or something.

2. This article is talking about some inauguration payments that may have been questionable. But nothing concrete once again.

3. There is some meeting with the Russians to give some dirt on the Hilary campaign. This is completely normal for campaigns as evidenced by Hilary Clinton purchasing intel from a foreign agent as well. This is literally business as usual. I haven't heard a peep from the media or the Dems concerning Hilary hiring a foreign agent likely using contacts in foreign governments to dig up dirt on Trump. Not a peep.

4. Russians interfered in the election with a social media campaign with misinformation. This happens from various sources all the time for nearly everything. If you're using social media as your information source, you're an idiot. You can't legislate against a person being an idiot, though I see them attempting it.

5. Former associates like Manafort, Gates, and Cohen brought up on charges for unrelated crimes from years ago. Some prior to their association with Trump.

6. Roger Stone: Brought in for questioning on some email charges that are not yet clear.

7. SDNY crawling up Trump's ass because the New York AG was pretty much looking for any reason to attack Trump because Democratic power runs New York like Michael Bloomberg.

So what else am I missing other than the voluminous speculations on Trump? How is this not a partisan attack?

Wow where to begin?
1 Trump had two women paid off within weeks of a presidential election in which he was the party nominee. He had Cohen open a sham company to pay Stormy daniels and Cohen is on tape with trump discussing how david Pecker from the enquirer is going to catch and kill the McDougla story. This was the basis for the 8 FELONIES including Tax fraud, lying to the FBI etc Cohen pled to in a filing where SDNY names "individual 1" as a co conspirator.I challenge you to find a comparable example in american presidential history. Saying Cohen acted on his own is laughable. He was Trumps fixer for 12 years and Trumps "great guy" till he developed a conscience.

#2Trumps inaugural committee raised 107 million dollars, over twice as much as any president, but he had fewer events, fewer stars, balls etc. His hotel in DC was paid ONE HUNDRED SEVENTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER DAY for events for a long period of time though. Many millions are unaccounted for. Hell just read the article. Its a story of graft and greed and influence peddling including likely foreign cash being paid to this committee by people like the saudis and Russian Oligarchs . Its a huge scandal.

#3 This whole thing started out with "nobody had anything to do with Russia" and then it was "well we met with a few russians" then when the Trump tower visit by a Russian intelligence asset was revealed it was about adoption according to the false narrative written by Trump aboard AF1. Then the emails surface that it was about "dirt" on Clinton " If it's what you say I love it especially later in the fall" says Jr.

Now it's to the point its "collusion is not a crime". The fact is that there were over 100 separate contacts!!!!! between members of Trump's cabinet and campaign team and Russians. This doesn't even get into the Trump Tower Moscow imbroglio that it now turns out was discussed right up until basically election eve, one of the things Cohen pled guilty to lying about and Don Jr has almost certainly perjured himself in congressional testimony about as well.

4 Russia interfered electronically in the most successful cyber attack ever by our own intelligence agencies statements, something the late John McCain and then UN Secretary Nikki Haley called "an act of war". They also hacked into voter databases in numerous states and also attempted to breach automated voting machines. the government says they did not succeed but I find it interesting that national pre election polling was pretty much spot on except in crucial battleground districts of battleground states. Not saying something happened but really who knows. We know they tried. It speaks volumes that the President refuses to this day to concede the level of interference including in Helsinki last year after emerging from a one on one meeting with his handler Putin after which the translators notes were confiscated to say he had no reason to believe Russia interfered in our election.....Cohen says it was that exchange that led him to choose country over this traitor.

5 Paul Manafort was the campaign chairman who got trump the nomination and was the chairman during the convention. At that time he was meeting with Russian Oligarchs, lobbying for Ukraine and sharing polling data with a Russian intelligence operative with close ties to Putin. Gates was deputy campaign chair, stayed on through the presidential election and transition and was a major player on the inauguration committee. Cohen has already been addressed but he was trump's "fixer" for over a decade and had been surreptitiously taping clients. I'm sure he has devastating things on the president and has cancelled scheduled meetings with congressional investigators citing concerns for his safety and that of his family. But Mueller knows
6 Stone was a Trump associate for 45 years. And he was indicted and yanked out of his house at gunpoint at 4 AM and his documents and electronic devices were seized with a search warrant. A little more than "brought in for questioning" don't you think? None other than Paul Manafort said "its hard to tell where Roger ends and Trump begins". He's the closest link yet to tying Trump directly to Russian Hackers and Wikileaks with his public statements about it being "podesta's time in the barrell" admitting talking to "guccifer .20" etc. Trump himself [praised Wikileaks from the stump, implored russia to produce "Hillarys 30 thousand missing emails" . Wikileaks released the Podesta E mails within hours of Trumps pussy grabbing admission, totally changing the news cycle.Now Stone and Trump say they never discussed any leaks or wikileaks or anything of the sort.......

7 SDNY is a widely respected extremely powerful independent investigative and prosecutorial office that has spawned the likes of federal judges ,mayors, governors and AGs including america's former Mayor Rudy Giuliani now chump for Trump. They were already looking at this criminal grifter trump long before he was elected. As for this being some democratic hity job let's remember Trump the shyster businessman donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the likes of Hillary Clinton, Nancy pelosi, Chuck Schumer etc. I'm no democrat and never will be one but I'm sick and Fing tired of hearing from trump apologists like you that its all about partisan politics as thought a democratic legislator, cop, judge etc cant follow the law.

Its about unquestionably the most filthy rotten criminal treasonous egocentric minded sleazeball ever to infest the oval office. And hes got the investigations to prove it. Shyster businessman goes to washington. End of story.

PS. Have you done your taxes yet? Your promised Trump “tax cut” is actually huge tax increase unless you are the 1% or are a major corporation. Again don’t believe me, look at your refund check / tax bill.

I have. My take home pay increased $12 a pay period when the new tax code went into effect, my tax return was $1400 less, even though I paid more in taxes.

Sports Hernia wrote:
Nice work sports hernia. Couldn't have said it better and I've tried lots of times.

Thanks.
I could go on and on about things I hate about the Democratic Party as well and we wouldn’t have to go far (see state and local - Seattle politics). Taxing us to death thru sales taxes, license tabs, property taxes,’liquor taxes.....throwing taxpayer money at problems without thinking solutions thru, making laws trying to save people from themselves (soda tax etc etc), shrinking car lanes to make bike lanes etc etc.

I decided a long time ago not to get married to a politcal party.
I’ve never voted a straight party ticket until the last midterm election.

I’m hoping the Real deal GOP’ers save their party from the cancer of Trump, but im not sure their is enough of them left to do so.

I've been a straight ticket republican since 78 when i was eligible to vote but that all ended in Nov 2016. I'm an independent conservative now. And definitely a #nevertrumper#. I rejected the buffoon long before he was nominated and voted for Gary Johnson. Frankly neither major party truly appeals to me right now...

PS. Have you done your taxes yet? Your promised Trump “tax cut” is actually huge tax increase unless you are the 1% or are a major corporation. Again don’t believe me, look at your refund check / tax bill.

c_hawkbob wrote:I have. My take home pay increased $12 a pay period when the new tax code went into effect, my tax return was $1400 less, even though I paid more in taxes.

My taxes are a little more difficult to compare as I was employed for the first 3 months of 2018 then started drawing from my IRA, annuity, etc. after I retired on 4/1. We'll be able to slip most of our income into the 12% bracket, which has been expanded from $19K to $77k, which will help us a lot down the road as under the old code, we would have been in the 22% bracket.

In 2019, with both of us being retired for the entire tax year, our taxable income should be in the mid $60k region, which should allow me to transfer $12-15K of funds from my pre tax 401k to the Roth and still stay in the 12% bracket. There are some things I need to figure out regarding medical expenses as due to distributions I took out of a tax free HSA, I wasn't able to deduct the pre-65 insurance premiums (over $1k/month) I have and will be paying until I go on Medicare on 11/1.

The problem many people had is that they reduced their withholding based on the new tax brackets but many of the exemptions were either reduced or eliminated, so their overall taxes didn't go down as they expected and they didn't have enough withheld out of their paychecks.

We're a little unique in that we live in a state that does not have an income tax and our house has been paid off for 10 years, so we don't have a lot of deductions that others had reduced or eliminated, thus we benefited a lot from the increased standard deduction and the expanded 12% tax bracket. But I can sure see where a lot of people are, or will be, in for a big surprise. All that glitters is not gold.

Well I'm glad to see that Cbob is one of the lucky people who won the U.S. lottery with a good job and that he's now helping others with more taxes to maybe win at life also. (where's the emoticon for tongue in cheek?)

Well, it seems like a lot has gone on since I popped in here. Trump's approval rating is at its highest level since his inauguration and over 50% again. The democrats are all about investigating him but not moving any of the items they campaigned on forward. Trump is going to re-appropriate money to build the wall and the dems will get ZERO in concessions for it not even DACA. Its been discovered that Mueller when he was FBI director was hauled in front of the FISA court and admonished for over 75 cases of FISA abuse (as if we didn't already know this. The republicans are sending criminal referrals and demanding same justice for them as what Flynn and Cohen got to the FBI and DOJ later this month after the new AG is appointed for all the people who lied to congress including Hilliary and her merry band of misfits. TRUMP has been CLEARED of any Russian Collusion by the bi-partisan Senate.

So yep, popcorn is definitely in order here. Should get even more interesting from here on out.

BTW, the reason they are digging into Trump so much is they do not want any other private person to run for high office like he did. They will destroy your life if you even think about it. You must first go through low level political posts and owe your life and allow them to gain dirt on you first. Why? So if you go off their reservation, they'll issue a photo of you in Black face/KKK outfit or dig up decades old rape charges on you. (THIS IS WHAT SHOULD SHAKE EVERYONE TO THE CORE). If you don't believe me, watch what happens to Howard Shultz if he decides to run. It isn't democrat or republican, its insider vs. not invited.

idhawkman wrote:Well I'm glad to see that Cbob is one of the lucky people who won the U.S. lottery with a good job and that he's now helping others with more taxes to maybe win at life also.

I have no idea what that even means, but it sure seems pretty far off the mark.

c_hawkbob wrote:
I have no idea what that even means, but it sure seems pretty far off the mark.

LOL, it means you make too much money and need to share it around with less fortunate people.

idhawkman wrote:Well, it seems like a lot has gone on since I popped in here. Trump's approval rating is at its highest level since his inauguration and over 50% again. The democrats are all about investigating him but not moving any of the items they campaigned on forward. Trump is going to re-appropriate money to build the wall and the dems will get ZERO in concessions for it not even DACA. Its been discovered that Mueller when he was FBI director was hauled in front of the FISA court and admonished for over 75 cases of FISA abuse (as if we didn't already know this. The republicans are sending criminal referrals and demanding same justice for them as what Flynn and Cohen got to the FBI and DOJ later this month after the new AG is appointed for all the people who lied to congress including Hilliary and her merry band of misfits. TRUMP has been CLEARED of any Russian Collusion by the bi-partisan Senate.

Glad to see you popping your head back in here.

The Republican controlled Senate didn't clear Trump of anything. What they said was that they have not found any evidence of collusion, but specifically noted that other evidence may arise. Like everyone else, the Senate is going to have to wait for Mueller to release his report.

Hawktawk wrote:If you don't believe me, watch what happens to Howard Shultz if he decides to run. It isn't democrat or republican, its insider vs. not invited.

You're half right. Yes, the Dems will go over the top if Schultz decides to run as an independent, but not so much because he's an outsider. The reason they're so worried is that Schultz is a moderate that would split the anti Trump vote. If he were a liberal, the reaction wouldn't be nearly as severe.

RiverDog wrote:
The Republican controlled Senate didn't clear Trump of anything. What they said was that they have not found any evidence of collusion, but specifically noted that other evidence may arise. Like everyone else, the Senate is going to have to wait for Mueller to release his report.

I think you are overlooking the fact that Mueller has the same information that the Senate has. Same witnesses, etc. The dems are seeing that they have lost the "RUSSIA" issue and will try and move on to something else. Mueller won't have anything an what he writes won't be about any wrong doing it will be just a narrative to try and lead someone to conclude something that isn't there. It won't work, but that's what it is.

RiverDog wrote:
The Republican controlled Senate didn't clear Trump of anything. What they said was that they have not found any evidence of collusion, but specifically noted that other evidence may arise. Like everyone else, the Senate is going to have to wait for Mueller to release his report.

idhawkman wrote:I think you are overlooking the fact that Mueller has the same information that the Senate has. Same witnesses, etc. The dems are seeing that they have lost the "RUSSIA" issue and will try and move on to something else. Mueller won't have anything an what he writes won't be about any wrong doing it will be just a narrative to try and lead someone to conclude something that isn't there. It won't work, but that's what it is.

And what you're overlooking is that you're listening to the spin the Republicans on the committee are giving the issue. The Dems on that same committee have a little different version.

But no mater, Mueller isn't done investigating yet, either, and the fact is that Trump hasn't been "cleared" of anything. That will only occur when Mueller gives him a clean bill of health.

The "something else" is already in motion, ie the bimbo payments and the influence peddling. But you're right, the Dems will push anything and everything for all it's worth, and I'm enjoying every minute of it. Get out your popcorn!

RiverDog wrote:If Trump knew about it and that it was illegal, then it's not just some random campaign violation, it's a felony charge.

BS charge. Done all the time.

"Some" inauguration payments? The accusation is influence peddling, and one of those that might be involved is a government that you loathe, ie the Saudis. Of course, there's nothing concrete yet. It's a relatively new development, so let's wait and see.

BS. Done all the time. if Illegal, a lot of people need to be arrested. Influence peddling? What even is that as it is a common legal activity called lobbying.

Hillary isn't the POTUS, Trump is. I've often remarked that had Hillary been elected, she'd be up to her panties in some sort of scandal, which is why I didn't vote for her. But I'm not going to agree with you that conspiring with a hostile power (if proven) to influence an election is "business as usual". Besides, even if other pols, including HRC, did in the past what Trump is accused of, that doesn't justify Trump's behavior. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Taking a guy down for something that has been done election after election after election stinks of partisan attack. You tell me when it hasn't happened that foreign governments have donated to campaigns and peddled for influence? Now Trump's in office and you want it investigated? Then back to sleep once he's out? When we spend billions or more in dollars in foreign aid and have treaties everywhere, foreign governments are going to care who is president in American up to and including spending money for influence. You don't want us to isolate further, so continue to expect it.

Agreed. Guess where Trump gets the majority of his information? It's no wonder how he can come up with such outlandish claims, his latest coming in the SOTU address about crime in El Paso, when the man spends more time on Twitter than he does with his own staff.

Yeah, he pays attention to and uses social media far too much. The guy's not going to spend much time reading a book to educate himself on the subject. He'd rather hire something that knows what they're doing like nearly every president.

It's a common tactic used by prosecutors at all levels in order to force a reluctant witness to testify. Besides, a lot of the charges ARE directly related to Trump and/or the Trump campaign.

And likely would be directed at nearly any campaign if they were focused on like Trump. Fact is Trump's weak AG candidate allowed a can of worms to be opened that most politicians aren't dumb enough to allow. I'll give you that. Trump's lack of understanding of Washington along with his choice of a weak AG candidate has put him in this position. Even the Clinton's weren't dumb enough to hire a weak AG candidate to allow this level of investigation. Trump has no one but himself to blame for hiring a weak AG candidate to handle this mess.

The charges are that he lied to Mueller's investigators. What's he hiding?

He says nothing. We will see if this leads anywhere worthwhile.

The reason why SDNY is the main investigative force (outside of Mueller) looking into Trump's activities is because that's where Trump did most of his business. His personal lawyer and long time fixer has already plead guilty to their charges involving campaign finance violations. Keep in mind that SDNY is part of the federal court system and not associated with the State of NY or their local politics. It is a part of Trump's own Justice Department.

And why didn't they investigate Trump before he became president? Don't BS me, man. Trump was fine until he became PoTUS. No investigations other than standard trash for doing big business in America. He becomes a Republican president with controversial policies, now he's under investigation as some kind of Kremlin spy. You're trying to tell me this isn't partisan politics and Washington power brokers trying to screw an outsider to the wall? Give me a break.

This is all politically motivated attacks, pure and simple. If Trump was such a threat to this country, then explain to me why they didn't investigate him years prior.

Tell me why Trump was clear before hand. He was a huge media personality with billions of dollars in one of the biggest cities in the world. Not a single thing about him being a Russian spy or puppet. He runs for president and wins, suddenly he's a Russian spy? Give me a break with this horse crap.

Here's the reality. No one thought this unlikable New York billionaire would win. Now he's won and the power brokers in Washington in both parties hate him. So they are doing everything they can to take him down using all their little tricks they usually use to destroy someone that challenges business as usual in Washington. You know it.I know it. Even crazy hawktawk and c-bob know it.

There is no way a public figure as well known and invested in New York like Donald Trump was somehow a Russian spy. It's the ultimate in stupid fantasy stories that if the idiot public really believes should pull down the entire government for being so unbelievably incompetent as to allow a Russian spy or whatever garbage they came up with to become president when he's been doing business is in this country and a public figure for 60 plus years.

This is pure political horse crap that you're buying into because you don't like Trump. It's literally the entire reason this is happening is because this guy is hated by some powerful people and keeps throwing middle fingers at them. So they're messing with him.

Of course, a lot of it is partisan, I never said that it wasn't. But Bob Mueller is a man that before his appointment to special prosecutor, had impecable credentials and was well respected on both sides of the aisle. He is not a partisan hack. Trump has only himself to blame for his troubles. In his entire career, he's never had to worry about the type of scrutiny that goes with the territory of being a public official in an elective office.

A lot of people are anxious for Mueller to wrap up his investigation. But when he has witness after witness come before his team and lie their asses off to them, it throws them off track and causes them to spend more time to unravel their lies and get to the truth. If Trump's friends and associates were more cooperative and more honest, Mueller might have been finished with his report by now.

I don't doubt Mueller is going to do a thorough investigation. I still see Mueller as a representative of Hawktawk's business as usual Republicans. If you follow the news deeper than a puddle, you know the Bush arm of the Republican Party does not like Trump.

My only problem with all of this is it reeks of partisan politics. I think if they bring Trump down, they will go back to business as usual in Washington. The giant hypocrisy of it all that will sicken me further is all the stuff they might bring Trump down for, they will just go back to do doing themselves, like they've done for years. Trump will be the rich guy they all snicker at knowing they screwed him to the wall because he was an outsider, not because he did anything all of them aren't doing as well. I'm sorry if that makes me sick, but it does. This whole thing reeks of a political attack by the incumbent powers in Washington upon an outsider.

This entire episode is turning me off of politics. I literally feel hatred for both of these parties. I feel like they are screwing this country hard playing their games. And i for the first time in my life see no quality leadership to improve this country I can support. We are mired in the corruption born of trying to rule a world.

Aseahawkfan wrote:This entire episode is turning me off of politics. I literally feel hatred for both of these parties. I feel like they are screwing this country hard playing their games. And i for the first time in my life see no quality leadership to improve this country I can support. We are mired in the corruption born of trying to rule a world.

Although I travel a different road to get there, I'm in a similar situation. Neither party aligns with my values.

But I'm not quite as pessimistic as you are. I will continue to listen to all serious candidates and think about what they have to say, even our "green new deal" princess. Maybe one of them will surprise me.

I literally feel hatred for both of these parties.

I'm with ya, despite feeling less for the party that at least gives lip service to the free economy than with the other embracing some ditz from New York's laughable ideas.

I will continue to listen to all serious candidates

Yeah, I've ruled out EH OH CEE, too. Embarrassing for pragmatic Dems.

burrrton wrote:Yeah, I've ruled out EH OH CEE, too. Embarrassing for pragmatic Dems.

There's not many "pragmatic" Dems anymore, at least none in the huge field that's announced for POTUS in 2020. I heard Hillary 2.0 backing away some from Bernie's "Medicare for All" proposal, refusing to endorse it by that name and instead saying something more wishy washy, like she wanted everyone to have access.

In other news a federal Judge Amy Berman appointed by GW Bush found yesterday that Paul Manafort had lied to Bob Mueller's team , grand jury etc after agreeing to cooperate about 3 separate aspects of the Russian investigation. The first was about a 125,000 dollar payment from the campaign fund that was diverted to pay his legal fees, the second was an unspecified lie about another separate investigation.

The third and most damning was lying about an august 2016 meeting with Russian operative Kilimnik that was also attended by deputy campaign manager Rick Gates.It occurred in a private cigar room at 666 Soho, at that time owned by the Kushner family and right down the street from Trump Tower.The meeting was secretive enough each man left by a separate entrance. Based on a redaction F up by manforts lawyers it was revealed that the discussion was about a pro Russian peace proposal in Ukraine(quid pro quo?) and at the meeting Manafort also allegedly shared confidential internal polling data(road map for interference?) from the presidential campaign with Kilimnik.Mueller's filing stated that this meeting went to"the very heart of the case". Judge Berman agreed and now it is likely Manafort will die in prison. Why would a guy be willing to die in prison to protect Trump and russia? Maybe trying for a pardon?

ID and Asea if you're reading this youre simply whistling in the graveyard to think there's no there there or this is just some partisan witch hunt. Liars lie to protect themselves and every individual connected to this investigation has been lying from day one and its evidence of a knowledge of guilt that is used in court all the time.

The Republican controlled senate investigation says in very legalistic terms that there is "no DIRECT evidence of a conspiracy" a statement disputed by the co chair Mark Warner BTW in an investigation that isn't complete.

But your delusional if you think they have the evidence Mueller has and the pages of blacked out redacted documents makes it clear they don't. And as House Judiciary co chair Eric Swalwell makes clear there is a ton of CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence of collusion and conspiracy already in the public domain. We will see what kind of tricks Bob Barr plays with releasing the final report that guys such as Giuliani and Alan Dershowitz have predicted will be "horrific" and "devastating"for Trump but polls show that an overwhelming majority of Americans including a solid majority of Republicans want the report made public.

And Id as for Trump being at 50% a few weeks after being at 36% get real. Rasmussen has become a joke and nobody else has the guy above mid 40%. The wacky dems are helping but hes never hitting 50% ever.

Hawktawk wrote:And Id as for Trump being at 50% a few weeks after being at 36% get real. Rasmussen has become a joke and nobody else has the guy above mid 40%. The wacky dems are helping but hes never hitting 50% ever.

To be fair, Trump's approval ratings are close to his personal best, in the mid to high 40's, but unless you want to cherry pick them the way Idahawk does, they're still well below 50%. But if he starts robbing money from approved projects after loosing his battle on border wall funding, they'll plummet again.

I will continue to listen to all serious candidates

burrrton wrote:Yeah, I've ruled out EH OH CEE, too. Embarrassing for pragmatic Dems.

Did you hear what AOC said yesterday after the news that Amazon was pulling out of their planned HQ2 in Long Island? She said that they could take that "$3B and use it for schools, etc". I couldn't believe my ears.

The $3B was approved tax exemptions that the various local and state governments were going to give Amazon as part of a package of incentives. It's not money that the governments were going to spend on Amazon.

Is she really that stupid?

Did you hear what AOC said yesterday after the news that Amazon was pulling out of their planned HQ2 in Long Island? She said that they could take that "$3B and use it for schools, etc". I couldn't believe my ears.

The $3B was approved tax exemptions that the various local and state governments were going to give Amazon as part of a package of incentives. It's not money that the governments were going to spend on Amazon.

Is she really that stupid?

I guess that's an honest mistake, barely. It sounds like she's thinking like the locals down here. They voted to take away some of Exxon's tax breaks giving the local government an addition 2-3 million dollars to work with. The big difference is Exxon is established and doing business here. Amazon hadn't established themselves in NY, and, therefore, paying zero taxes there, so, yeah, wth is she talking about?

Did you hear what AOC said yesterday after the news that Amazon was pulling out of their planned HQ2 in Long Island? She said that they could take that "$3B and use it for schools, etc". I couldn't believe my ears.

The $3B was approved tax exemptions that the various local and state governments were going to give Amazon as part of a package of incentives. It's not money that the governments were going to spend on Amazon.

Is she really that stupid?

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I guess that's an honest mistake, barely. It sounds like she's thinking like the locals down here. They voted to take away some of Exxon's tax breaks giving the local government an addition 2-3 million dollars to work with. The big difference is Exxon is established and doing business here. Amazon hadn't established themselves in NY, and, therefore, paying zero taxes there, so, yeah, wth is she talking about?

Sorry, my friend, but I can't buy that excuse. She had to have realized that Amazon wasn't an established business in Long Island and wasn't paying taxes. I mean, seriously, a grade schooler could figure out that the $3B she's talking about wasn't money in some account that was going to be paid to Amazon that's now going to be available for schools and other improvements.

There might have been a few infrastructure improvements they had planned in anticipation to Amazon's new HQ, roads, utilities, etc, that they had planned that would have resulted in some expenditures that now they will not have to make, but that's in the tens of millions, not billions. Plus I'm sure that the mechanisms for funding those infrastructure improvements were associated with things like increased property values and more property tax revenue in the future as a result of Amazon's moving in and not out of current funds.

It sure makes you wonder about the assumptions she's making in her Green New Deal proposal.

My understanding is that there already is a substantial Amazon presence in NY, in fact they already employ 1800 people in NYC. The deal would have been 25,000, but still, 1800 high paying jobs (around $150K according to the radio program I listened to on the way home from work yesterday) is not insignificant.