HawkShack.com

So now that the Mueller report is out and there are no further recommendations for indictments (I hope HawkTalk is under 24/7 watch at this point) , Trump has directed the FBI to launch counter espionage investigations against all declared 2020 democrats.

Should be interesting...

This is the game the Democrats created. So if Trump does, let the witchhunts begin on both sides so we can see how ridiculous all of this is. I haven't seen a single thing in the news that Trump did that was anything that wasn't politics as usual in Washington for the entirety of my life. Paying off women, talking with foreign reps to influence elections, backdoor deals, and all the other trash. Literally, business as usual. I would be not be surprised if this grandstanding by the Democrats is just grandstanding for election pushes with no substance because if they busted Trump for the stuff we've seen in the news, they'd be bushing half or more of the politicians in this country for exactly the same "crimes" including some very powerful Democrats.

I'll wait and watch. Let's see what's in this report. Let's mull it over for the next two years, see if they have any solid impeachable offense. Hawktawk said Mueller is a former Marine and a good man, so he should believe in the quality and truthfulness of the report.

Aseahawkfan wrote:This is the game the Democrats created. So if Trump does, let the witchhunts begin on both sides so we can see how ridiculous all of this is. I haven't seen a single thing in the news that Trump did that was anything that wasn't politics as usual in Washington for the entirety of my life. Paying off women, talking with foreign reps to influence elections, backdoor deals, and all the other trash. Literally, business as usual. I would be not be surprised if this grandstanding by the Democrats is just grandstanding for election pushes with no substance because if they busted Trump for the stuff we've seen in the news, they'd be bushing half or more of the politicians in this country for exactly the same "crimes" including some very powerful Democrats.

I'll wait and watch. Let's see what's in this report. Let's mull it over for the next two years, see if they have any solid impeachable offense. Hawktawk said Mueller is a former Marine and a good man, so he should believe in the quality and truthfulness of the report.

ASHF, IF your mayor tells the Chief of Police that he is to stop an investigation of a relative, and then is fired when he does not, that is de facto obstruction of justice. They have him on that in the Comey case. He paid bribes to Stormy Daniels as President, that is bribery, you cannot allow POTUS to pay out bribes. So you already have him on Bribery, and a high crime and misdemeanor, WHAT else do you need, Treason? Its a matter of the Cult of Trump. The Republicans are scared of him period.

obiken wrote:ASHF, IF your mayor tells the Chief of Police that he is to stop an investigation of a relative, and then is fired when he does not, that is de facto obstruction of justice. They have him on that in the Comey case.

No. They don't. He did not force Comey, only asked him. I guarantee that will not get him close to impeached.

You've watched multiple presidents straight up lie and you think what he did with Comey is worse than say Clinton lying under Oath on the witness stand or Reagan claiming to know nothing about the Iran-Contra situation? C'mon now. This happened in your lifetime.

He paid bribes to Stormy Daniels as President, that is bribery, you cannot allow POTUS to pay out bribes.

He did not pay her off as president, he did so as candidate. He did it to keep information out of the public eye. You think any of these politicians in Washington want someone removed from office for paying off women or hide information from the public eye? You want to see how many politicians lose their job if that becomes a crime that can remove you from office?

So you already have him on Bribery, and a high crime and misdemeanor, WHAT else do you need, Treason? Its a matter of the Cult of Trump. The Republicans are scared of him period.

There isn't a single thing they have him on right now that isn't business as usual in Washington. Literally, multiple candidates have done exactly as Trump has reportedly done or worse.

Why do you overlook the fact that say Hilary hired a foreign agent from an allied country to dig up dirt on Trump using political contacts in Russia, a non-allied country. Why is this completely glossed over as not influencing the election while Trump is investigated for doing something extremely similar mostly to get information? Explain this to me, explain this complete hypocrisy.

Face reality. The Democrats are digging on Trump to find something worse than they have, so they can get him for something many of their own can't be hammered for. They want him, but it has to be more than what is reported. We'll see if the New York office can get him for something involving taxes.

Bribes to women. Asking a guy to halt an investigation, not ordering. Meeting with foreign diplomats and agents for information. That won't do it. That won't make it to court because both Democrats and Republicans pay off people to keep quiet and ask for alterations in investigations for friends hoping it never makes the press like this. They know if they try to get Trump for this a bunch of them will get the same. Reporters supporting each party will start a digging to no end. None of them folk in Washington want any of that. Heck, look at the Metoo# movement. It took out as many if not more Dems than Republicans.

You starting to see the picture, obi? How corrupt Washington is? I'd love nothing more than constant watchdogs on these folks, but I doubt it happens. Politics is an extremely dirty business. Even look at Washington State. The Seattle Mayor was accused of molesting boys and he stepped down and as far as I know avoided all charges. It's a dirty game that both sides have to be careful not to open cans of worms that will eat them too. You can bet this will be a very careful forward movement by the Dems. It will probably benefit them more come election time than for impeachment.

Sorry, I don't agree with you at all. Maybe they have more stuff in the report, but as far as what the press has reported that's standard operating procedure in D.C.

Although we take different roads to get to the same destination, I essentially agree with ASF's conclusion. I don't see anything I would consider impeachable, at least not yet.

The mystery now will be how much of the Mueller Report will be made public. I see no reason for there not to be a full release. It's not a matter of revealing CIA methods, exposure of agents, or some sort of national security issue, so if it's not fully released, it had better be for a damn good reason.

And Ida, I wouldn't be doing your touchdown dance just yet. Regardless of the contents of the Mueller Report, there's still lots of irons in the fire, specifically at the SDNY.

idhawkman wrote:So now that the Mueller report is out and there are no further recommendations for indictments (I hope HawkTalk is under 24/7 watch at this point) , Trump has directed the FBI to launch counter espionage investigations against all declared 2020 democrats.

Should be interesting...

Bite me Trumptard. 24 7 watch? . I see it about 180% different from you shockingly. Mueller has played this beautifully. he has left bread crumbs which basically point out whats in the report already. The passing of polling data from Manafort to Keliminik, something he argued before Judge Berman was "at the heart of the case". She agreed. The fact that Flynn and Gates have yet to be sentenced due to "ongoing cooperation in active investigations and Stones trial is still months away is interesting. There was page after page of still unrevealed redacted data in court filings, clearly indicating either national security concerns or not wanting to reveal evidence to potential subjects of ongoing investigations.

Then lets look at the SDNY investigations, indictments including Cohen who pled out to felonies many of which were described by SDNY in court filings, not Cohen, as having been directed at the behest of "individual one". The campaign is still under federal criminal investigation. The foundation is under state investigation as is the Trump business, especially the inauguration committee which raised 107 million,, twice as much as any before despite spending far less on events and to which another Trump associate has already pled guilty to a pay for play scheme taking foreign money to allow a foreigner to attend the inauguration. Approximately a quarter of the money is unaccounted for and much more was clearly was funneled to Trump businesses. Mueller ran rings around the Mr witch hunt idiot passing off the baton to state and federal courts like a track star after surveilling Cohen for a year before popping him, something revealed only last week..Tax fraud, Insurance Fraud etc. Its a RICO case honestly, total criminal empire.Just saw a report last week that 1.7 million of Re election fund money was funneled to trump businesses.

Not indicting Trump or his kids in his role as a special counsel, one of which Don Jr had said he expected was brilliant by Mueller. Let the state and SDNY handle it later. If all you got is Trump and his kids not being indicted(presidents cant be and Mueller may have looked at his immediate family as under the same umbrella) is all you got your whistling in the graveyard Mr Trumptard zombie army loyalist.

I guess you can STFU about the 17 angry democrats, Mueller etc right?

And one more thing. Wheres orange man? Where is Mr witch hunt? after 33 psychotic tweets last Sunday and 22 more on Monday NOT A PEEP about his supposed vindication. My guess is someone confiscated his and Giuliani's cell phone. Also interesting that Barr has said he is consulting with Mueller and Rosenstein about what to release.Its not something he has to do.


The litmus test of whats in the report will be how fully it will be released. If it mostly vindicates Trump his ally Barr will want it all out ASAP. If it doesn't it will be a battle royale.

Until that process plays out I wouldnt be doing a victory lap trumpies. Either way Trumps legal jeopardy is far from over. Its a great day ID, excellent

I hope HawkTalk is under 24/7 watch at this point

Yup. I was going to ask if someone could check on him.

And Ida, I wouldn't be doing your touchdown dance just yet. Regardless of the contents of the Mueller Report, there's still lots of irons in the fire, specifically at the SDNY.

Seconded. No criminal "collusion" was a predictable outcome, but from my meager knowledge of the situation(s), I don't think he's completely out of the woods yet.

RiverDog wrote:And Ida, I wouldn't be doing your touchdown dance just yet. Regardless of the contents of the Mueller Report, there's still lots of irons in the fire, specifically at the SDNY.

burrrton wrote:Seconded. No criminal "collusion" was a predictable outcome, but from my meager knowledge of the situation(s), I don't think he's completely out of the woods yet.

Honest question: Did the Muller Report say that there was no criminal collusion?

"Not completely out of the woods" is an understatement. Although I don't always like his rhetoric, Hawktalk has done a very good job of enumerating Trump's challenges. Especially with the Dems taking over the House, Trump is going to be fighting investigations and lawsuits all the way through the next election cycle. Heck, even the Robert Kraft massage parlor scandal may end up ensnaring DJT. And HT has a point about Trump's odd silence since the report was handed over to the AG. If it were a total vindication like Idahawk thinks it is, you know damn well that DJT would be lighting up Twitter.

RiverDog wrote:Honest question: Did the Muller Report say that there was no criminal collusion?

"Not completely out of the woods" is an understatement. Although I don't always like his rhetoric, Hawktalk has done a very good job of enumerating Trump's challenges. Especially with the Dems taking over the House, Trump is going to be fighting investigations and lawsuits all the way through the next election cycle. Heck, even the Robert Kraft massage parlor scandal may end up ensnaring DJT. And HT has a point about Trump's odd silence since the report was handed over to the AG. If it were a total vindication like Idahawk thinks it is, you know damn well that DJT would be lighting up Twitter.

No it didn't rule out a conspiracy as far as we know. We don't know much frankly and wont know what was learned unless there is a full release of the report minus any classified stuff.Maybe there wasn't a provable in a court of law conspiracy but I've been saying all along collusion and and at least attempted obstruction of justice is in plain view.

Mueller has just been ten times as smart as Trump and his lawyers. The Starr report didn't indict Clinton, just said he committed perjury about a sex act. And I don't recall Starr passing off so much stuff to federal and state prosecutions long before the report was even issued. According to whats known the office of the special counsel only said there would be no more indictments and that there were no sealed indictments either which is whats prompting the victory party by the ID Hawk men of the world and the republican shills in the house and senate.

The president not being indicted for the first time in american history is a pretty low bar for victory. Aim low you hit your target every time I guess if you're a trump supporter.

I'm with somewhere between 70 and 80% of the population wanting the report released in its entirety including a 420 to 0 vote in the house last week. It could backfire on either party depending on whats in there. Having heard Trump lawyer Giuliani and staunch defender Alan Dershowitz say weeks ago it will be "horrible and devastating" to the president but wont reveal criminal activity I doubt its going to be too flattering but lets see. Our tax dollars paid for it.

Hawktawk wrote:No it didn't rule out a conspiracy as far as we know. We don't know much frankly and wont know what was learned unless there is a full release of the report minus any classified stuff.Maybe there wasn't a provable in a court of law conspiracy but I've been saying all along collusion and and at least attempted obstruction of justice is in plain view.

I'm curious as to what kind of information in the report might be classified. It's not like the Warren Commission's investigation into the Kennedy assassination where they didn't want to reveal that we had the Soviet embassy in Mexico City under surveillance, and it's not like Watergate where the tapes were in the possession of the POTUS claiming executive privilege and that might have contained sensitive conversations about international affairs. Trump was a private citizen at the time all of this was supposed to have happened, so there shouldn't be any matters of national security to be kept confidential, at least not as it relates to collusion during the election.

Hawktawk wrote:Mueller has just been ten times as smart as Trump and his lawyers. The Starr report didn't indict Clinton, just said he committed perjury about a sex act. And I don't recall Starr passing off so much stuff to federal and state prosecutions long before the report was even issued. According to whats known the office of the special counsel only said there would be no more indictments and that there were no sealed indictments either which is whats prompting the victory party by the ID Hawk men of the world and the republican shills in the house and senate.

I do like the way Mueller went about his business, not commenting at all except for one time when they came out and denied a false report that claimed that they had come to a conclusion. And when you consider the reclaimed tax revenue they stand to realize as a result of the investigation, the taxpayers will actually come out financially ahead.

You're right about the Clinton/Starr analogy. Clinton's problems started and ended with information given to Congress regarding the false statements given under oath by Clinton. Although he had some minor legal troubles regarding the incident after he left office, there were no subsequent investigations that were spawned by the Starr Investigation like there is with Trump/Mueller.

RiverDog wrote:Although we take different roads to get to the same destination, I essentially agree with ASF's conclusion. I don't see anything I would consider impeachable, at least not yet.

The mystery now will be how much of the Mueller Report will be made public. I see no reason for there not to be a full release. It's not a matter of revealing CIA methods, exposure of agents, or some sort of national security issue, so if it's not fully released, it had better be for a damn good reason.

And Ida, I wouldn't be doing your touchdown dance just yet. Regardless of the contents of the Mueller Report, there's still lots of irons in the fire, specifically at the SDNY.

Awe, it was so fun though Riv.

1. Mueller is under a different set of rules than what Ken Star was under and since there are no indictments, the DOJ has a policy of not laying out the information gathered. What Comey did against Hilliary without charges is exactly why they don't do that. Since there were no charges, I doubt much of the information will come out about the $30M we spent for 22 months of damage to the country. (I could lay out a full case on how the Russians who are now doing military maneuvers with China was a result of the Mueller and FBI investigation).

2. Remember who the SDNY answers to. Barr just may shut this all down as it is. He probably won't go along with a lot of the shenanigans that the previous group of thieves did. The only hope the dems have now is really in the state of NY or in the House of REps. Otherwise, this is pretty much over.

Hawktawk wrote:
Bite me Trumptard. 24 7 watch? . I see it about 180% different from you shockingly. Mueller has played this beautifully. he has left bread crumbs which basically point out whats in the report already. The passing of polling data from Manafort to Keliminik, something he argued before Judge Berman was "at the heart of the case". She agreed. The fact that Flynn and Gates have yet to be sentenced due to "ongoing cooperation in active investigations and Stones trial is still months away is interesting. There was page after page of still unrevealed redacted data in court filings, clearly indicating either national security concerns or not wanting to reveal evidence to potential subjects of ongoing investigations.

Then lets look at the SDNY investigations, indictments including Cohen who pled out to felonies many of which were described by SDNY in court filings, not Cohen, as having been directed at the behest of "individual one". The campaign is still under federal criminal investigation. The foundation is under state investigation as is the Trump business, especially the inauguration committee which raised 107 million,, twice as much as any before despite spending far less on events and to which another Trump associate has already pled guilty to a pay for play scheme taking foreign money to allow a foreigner to attend the inauguration. Approximately a quarter of the money is unaccounted for and much more was clearly was funneled to Trump businesses. Mueller ran rings around the Mr witch hunt idiot passing off the baton to state and federal courts like a track star after surveilling Cohen for a year before popping him, something revealed only last week..Tax fraud, Insurance Fraud etc. Its a RICO case honestly, total criminal empire.Just saw a report last week that 1.7 million of Re election fund money was funneled to trump businesses.

Not indicting Trump or his kids in his role as a special counsel, one of which Don Jr had said he expected was brilliant by Mueller. Let the state and SDNY handle it later. If all you got is Trump and his kids not being indicted(presidents cant be and Mueller may have looked at his immediate family as under the same umbrella) is all you got your whistling in the graveyard Mr Trumptard zombie army loyalist.

I guess you can STFU about the 17 angry democrats, Mueller etc right?

And one more thing. Wheres orange man? Where is Mr witch hunt? after 33 psychotic tweets last Sunday and 22 more on Monday NOT A PEEP about his supposed vindication. My guess is someone confiscated his and Giuliani's cell phone. Also interesting that Barr has said he is consulting with Mueller and Rosenstein about what to release.Its not something he has to do.


The litmus test of whats in the report will be how fully it will be released. If it mostly vindicates Trump his ally Barr will want it all out ASAP. If it doesn't it will be a battle royale.

Until that process plays out I wouldnt be doing a victory lap trumpies. Either way Trumps legal jeopardy is far from over. Its a great day ID, excellent

Yeah, I'm glad you are celebrating with me and the rest of the country knowing that our president is not a traitor and he had nothing to do to undermine the last election. It is a great day.

BTW, Mueller announced that there are no sealed or forthcoming indictments so you should probably give up on Flynn, Gates and Stone. They pretty much die with the end of the Mueller group. Which, by your standard, is above reproach. Having the 16 angry dems on his staff just makes the vindication even more relevant and leaves little for the dems to follow up on in that regard, but it in no way changes the fact that the president did not commit treason, collude or obstruct any investigation. Its a great day!!!!

RiverDog wrote:Honest question: Did the Muller Report say that there was no criminal collusion?

Yeah, it says no one, not even Flynn was compromised by the Russians. We all know that the only collusion was on the Dems side by paying a foreign spy to go to an adversary to get OPPO research on the other candidate and then they weaponized it through our intel agencies to try and over throw the Duly Elected President. This is definitely not over yet. The other side is about to start coming around now. E.G. now that there was no collusion whatsoever they are now going to have to look into why the whole special counsel and counter espionage investigation was started in the first place. There'll be multiple felonies in obtaining the FISA warrants they did in order to spy on a US Citizen.

"Not completely out of the woods" is an understatement. Although I don't always like his rhetoric, Hawktalk has done a very good job of enumerating Trump's challenges. Especially with the Dems taking over the House, Trump is going to be fighting investigations and lawsuits all the way through the next election cycle. Heck, even the Robert Kraft massage parlor scandal may end up ensnaring DJT. And HT has a point about Trump's odd silence since the report was handed over to the AG. If it were a total vindication like Idahawk thinks it is, you know damn well that DJT would be lighting up Twitter.

Grasping for straws. All of what the dems want to do to Trump can be blocked by Trump. We learned that you can just ignore or not respond to Congressional subpoenas and there'll be no consequences.

RiverDog wrote:I'm curious as to what kind of information in the report might be classified. It's not like the Warren Commission's investigation into the Kennedy assassination where they didn't want to reveal that we had the Soviet embassy in Mexico City under surveillance, and it's not like Watergate where the tapes were in the possession of the POTUS claiming executive privilege and that might have contained sensitive conversations about international affairs. Trump was a private citizen at the time all of this was supposed to have happened, so there shouldn't be any matters of national security to be kept confidential, at least not as it relates to collusion during the election.

There's a lot to be redacted. Its a felony to release any grand jury testimony. They won't release anything about what happened overseas nor will they release anything about the spies that were placed in Trump's campaign by the CIA/FBI. They won't go over anything about the ambassadors of other countries and their role in the whole thing and they won't release names or testimony of anyone who wasn't indicted (as I've laid out before since they are not being charged. You wouldn't want to be investigated for murder and have the prosecution say, "we found nothing about this person on murder but we think he's a bad guy and here's why.... Investigators are responsible for either charging someone with a crime and laying out the evidence or NOT charging a crime and move on. They are not in the game of destroying innocent people).

I do like the way Mueller went about his business, not commenting at all except for one time when they came out and denied a false report that claimed that they had come to a conclusion. And when you consider the reclaimed tax revenue they stand to realize as a result of the investigation, the taxpayers will actually come out financially ahead.

You're right about the Clinton/Starr analogy. Clinton's problems started and ended with information given to Congress regarding the false statements given under oath by Clinton. Although he had some minor legal troubles regarding the incident after he left office, there were no subsequent investigations that were spawned by the Starr Investigation like there is with Trump/Mueller.

sigh... Again, Starr/Clinton were under a different set of rules and was commissioned by the Congress. They refused to renew that Independent Prosecutor rule as opposed to a Special Counsel which was directed by the DOJ. Hopefully you will see that one being appointed by congress and the report given to congress is much different than one being appointed by the DOJ (a department that Trump is in charge of) and the report given to the A.G. I know you all want to hope for the same thing that happened to Clinton but it just won't. Maybe the dems shouldn't have drug their feet while the house and senate were conducting their investigations and placing all their hopes on the Mueller report.

As far as I know Cohen is being busted for crimes other than what he did for Trump, same with Flynn, Gates, and Manafort. None of them were real tight with Trump other than this campaign save for Cohen. It sounds like he is so dirty more than just Trump will be lining up against him. I think Cohen literally has to worry about getting killed and not by Trump.

LIke I said, they have to get Trump on something that won't get a lot of powerful Democrats in trouble as well. Because we're seeing the focus on Trump with this, but I would bet nearly every penny I had that behind the scenes Pelosi and the other powerful Dems are like if they dig on me and this becomes something to remove from office, I'm in a lot of trouble. It's like a bunch of dirty, corrupt folks fighting it out trying to get dirt on each other that is unique and actionable without taking more people out. It's a game in one of the dirtiest pools in the country. It's a rich, powerful people game and they play hardball.

We get the news stories, but what I'd like to see is all the behind the scenes maneuvering and phone calls between the powerful and long-term Dems and Republicans crapping their pants that an investigation will come their way. I bet there is so much wheeling and dealing over this that it would make America's head spin at the corruption in DC if they had access to it.

I still can't believe we have a drone assassination program going that allows the president to authorize drone killings with a signature, some intel, and the death of a target and possibly some civilians is oked. So much room for abuse in something like that it is unreal. And we all just shrug about it like it's for the good of the nation and in line with our values. Personally, I think we've seriously lost our way. I don't see anyone on this board or in many other places interested in finding our way back from the path we're on.

Pretty easy to read 4 page letter from AG Barr to congressional committee heads. We only paid $10M per page so read it slowly in order to get the full value out of it. BTW, pretty much a dead end for any further jeopardy to the president in regards to obstruction and collusion.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/03/24/us/politics/barr-letter-mueller-report.html

Bologna, they fired him for not getting off the investigation, otherwise his firing makes no sense. We have the check, he paid her, as POTUS.

idhawkman wrote:Pretty easy to read 4 page letter from AG Barr to congressional committee heads. We only paid $10M per page so read it slowly in order to get the full value out of it.

As of 12/13/18, the investigation cost $25M, so your math is a little off. And by the way, the IRS stands to gain $48M, or nearly a 2:1 ROI in a little less than 2 years. I wish all my investments did that good.

Mueller Probe Cost $25 Million So Far, Report Says. It’s Pulled in $48 Million From Tax Cheats

http://fortune.com/2018/12/14/mueller-i ... ax-cheats/

FYI Clinton's investigation from 1994-98 cost $40M with no additional tax revenue gained as a result.

Yeah, I'm glad you are celebrating with me and the rest of the country knowing that our president is not a traitor and he had nothing to do to undermine the last election. It is a great day.

1- The report did not exonerate Trump, go ahead and celebrate his not getting an indictment out of it, but it quite specifically didn't put him in the clear.
2- If you think the whole county is celebrating you're delusional.
3- The Mueller report was never the biggest problem Trump had, that would be SDNY, stay tuned.

obiken wrote:Bologna, they fired him for not getting off the investigation, otherwise his firing makes no sense. We have the check, he paid her, as POTUS.

Not illegal. Trump does not have to keep an FBI director that he doesn't get along with or want in the position. Comey's own testimony states Trump did not order him to stop. Comey hates Trump, is very familiar with the law, and if Trump had ordered him and broke the law, Comey would have been able to pursue it. You're are dead wrong on this matter and there's no way you can spin it otherwise. If Trump had truly broken the law the Director of the F.B.I., I guarantee Trump would be indicted right now. I once again state that asking someone to do something and telling them are entirely different matters.

Trump listened to his advisors for once and let the Special Counsel do his job. Probably saved him from a true obstruction charge.

If the Dems keep going with this BS, they are going to truly look like they are just fishing to a lot of the nation. I wouldn't be surprised if Trump could go after some people if it starts to look like the are just digging until they get something without end.

I knew Trump wouldn't be hit for collusion. A bunch of us told these delusional folks that thought Trump was some kind of Russian traitor that it was horsecrap. It was no more true than Obama is a Muslim or not a citizen. Just cost a lot more money to find out since Obama avoided investigation for that stupid crap thankfully. At least Obama got some payback with this whole Trump is a Russian asset rubbish. Not much good for the American people, but I guess the Dems can break out some champagne and say they got Trump to feel the same pain Obama felt with the stupid attacks on his citizenship and religious denomination. Yay.

Our political situation is so looney right now. Never seen it this looney and it's been pretty looney with Clinton and his BS and Bush Jr. and his BS. Obama besides the citizenship attacks was probably one of the calmest presidencies we've had recently. I hope it can't get any more crazy. We need some boring, efficient person in office that makes sure the economy is good, keeps us out of war, and let's the United States and world rest for about eight years.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Our political situation is so looney right now. Never seen it this looney and it's been pretty looney with Clinton and his BS and Bush Jr. and his BS. Obama besides the citizenship attacks was probably one of the calmest presidencies we've had. I hope it can't get any more crazy. We need some boring, efficient person in office that makes sure the economy is good, keeps us out of war, and let's the United States and world rest for about eight years.

I agree. I haven't seen the country this divided and at each other's throats in 50 years. The only period of time in my memory when it was worse was in the 60's, with the Vietnam War, the race riots, and political assassinations. If we think it gets a little testy in this forum, social media is just horribly divided and outright hostile to opposing POV's. There is absolutely no in between anymore.

I also agree with the need for a less visible, calmer POTUS, like Calvin Coolidge. I get tired of Trump giving us his 2 cents worth on everything from the NFL to SNL. I've seen historians classify a POTUS as either a ground shaker or a ground smoother. Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt were a ground shakers, Dwight Eisenhower and Coolidge ground smoothers. It's time for the latter.

Not illegal. Trump does not have to keep an FBI director that he doesn't get along with or want in the position. Comey's own testimony states Trump did not order him to stop. Comey hates Trump, is very familiar with the law, and if Trump had ordered him and broke the law, Comey would have been able to pursue it. You're are dead wrong on this matter and there's no way you can spin it otherwise. If Trump had truly broken the law the Director of the F.B.I., I guarantee Trump would be indicted right now. I once again state that asking someone to do something and telling them are entirely different matters.

Trump listened to his advisors for once and let the Special Counsel do his job. Probably saved him from a true obstruction charge.

Not true, the POTUS cannot fire the FBI Director without a reason, by law. He is not like a cabinet member.

obiken wrote:Bologna, they fired him for not getting off the investigation, otherwise his firing makes no sense. We have the check, he paid her, as POTUS.

Again, as I said a year ago, even "IF" He did fire him over the investigation it is his prerogative as the POTUS. He can fire anyone at any time in the administrative branch of the government. This in no way obstructed the investigation though unless you are telling me that Comey was running the investigation. There were still multiple agents and staff running the investigation, no one stopped or even hiccuped when Comey was let go. Now that we've seen 3 separate investigations come to the same conclusion that there was no collusion despite the multiple attempts of the Russians to get the Trump campaign to collude, you should be happy that he rejected their offers. With that said though, why are you not infuriated at "HOW" such a disruptive narrative got started in the first place? Someone cooked up this phony story and I believe the rest of this year is going to be about getting to the bottom of how our Intelligence agencies got so hoodwinked over such a divisive thing as this and how the Russians co-opted the democratic party to do their bidding in the US.

Just to be clear, he did not pay her as POTUS, she received no money after he was elected. The only thing Trump did was pay the invoice of his attorney from his personal funds. At least he didn't use a slush fund like Congress has for their misdeeds to pay for their indiscretions. I'd still like to know who those people are (republican and democrat) that used our tax dollars for such crap!

c_hawkbob wrote:
1- The report did not exonerate Trump, go ahead and celebrate his not getting an indictment out of it, but it quite specifically didn't put him in the clear.
2- If you think the whole county is celebrating you're delusional.
3- The Mueller report was never the biggest problem Trump had, that would be SDNY, stay tuned.

Don't believe what CNN and MSNBC is telling you Bob, it is over for collusion and obstruction. Regarding the SDNY, they will try to do something but Barr won't let them do anything even remotely as nefarious as what the last 3 investigations did into a charge that was made out of thin air. There's going to have to be a good reason for the IRS to give out anyone's tax returns and I just don't see that going anywhere either since they too, are an arm of the administrative branch.

The dems will huff and they will puff but this is pretty much DOA from here forward.

The whole country should be celebrating knowing that the Russian's tried to influence the president and all efforts were rebuffed.

obiken wrote:
Not true, the POTUS cannot fire the FBI Director without a reason, by law. He is not like a cabinet member.

Actually, Obi, yes he can. He can fire anyone in the administrative branch. They serve at his pleasure and when they fall out of that pleasure, he can fire them.

A simple search of google finds this in the Encyclopedia page. Link: https://www.encyclopedia.com/history/dictionaries-thesauruses-pictures-and-press-releases/removal-executive-power

Here's the pertinent excerpt if you don't want to click and read the whole thing.

In 1867 Congress enacted the Tenure of Office Act over President Andrew Johnson's veto. The act required the president to secure the Senate's approval to remove any official from government whose nomination had been confirmed by the Senate. When Johnson tested the act by unilaterally firing Secretary of War Edwin Stanton, Congress promptly initiated impeachment proceedings. The House voted 126 to 47 in favor of impeachment; the Senate, however, failed by just one vote. Two decades later, Congress repealed the Tenure of Office Act.

Throughout the nineteenth century, the federal courts sidestepped every opportunity to comment on the constitutionality of the president's removal power. In Myers v. United States (1926), however, the Supreme Court deemed unconstitutional an 1876 law that required presidents to secure the Senate's consent before firing "postmasters of the first, second, and third classes" (19 Stat. 78, 80). Chief Justice William Howard Taft, delivering the Court's opinion, noted that to fulfill his constitutional duty to "take care that the laws be faithfully executed," the president must retain an unrestricted power to remove subordinates.

RiverDog wrote:I agree. I haven't seen the country this divided and at each other's throats in 50 years. The only period of time in my memory when it was worse was in the 60's, with the Vietnam War, the race riots, and political assassinations. If we think it gets a little testy in this forum, social media is just horribly divided and outright hostile to opposing POV's. There is absolutely no in between anymore.

This is exactly why we need to find out how the media and the country got so duped by the Russians and our Intel agencies into believing this whole hoax in the first place. We, as a nation, need to find out how it got started, how it was perpetuated and how to not ever let this happen to another president whether he/she be democrat, republican, green, independent or whatever.

idhawkman wrote:The whole country should be celebrating knowing that the Russian's tried to influence the president and all efforts were rebuffed.

The Russians efforts were rebuffed? Man, that's some kind of spin! Even Trump himself in all his whacky tweets and statements hasn't made the claim that they rebuffed the Russians.

The Russians most definitely did interfere with the election, the extent of which can be debated. The only evidence I've read or heard of coming out of the Mueller report is that they did not find any evidence of coordinated efforts between the Trump campaign and the Russians to influence the election. That's a far cry from being rebuffed, and it's not an exoneration. It means exactly what it said: They found no evidence.

I find it amusing how the Trump camp is interpreting the statement "found no evidence of collusion" as "no collusion".

I find it amusing how the Trump camp is interpreting the statement "found no evidence of collusion" as "no collusion".

You know very well why it's officially phrased as the former and not the latter.

For us laypersons, though, they realistically mean the same thing. If, after two years of digging, they found no evidence of what they were looking for, it's pretty safe to assume it didn't happen.

And yeah, there should be relief about this. That we're instead seeing so much outrage says volumes about where some people's heads are now.

RiverDog wrote:The Russians efforts were rebuffed? Man, that's some kind of spin! Even Trump himself in all his whacky tweets and statements hasn't made the claim that they rebuffed the Russians.

The Russians most definitely did interfere with the election, the extent of which can be debated. The only evidence I've read or heard of coming out of the Mueller report is that they did not find any evidence of coordinated efforts between the Trump campaign and the Russians to influence the election. That's a far cry from being rebuffed, and it's not an exoneration. It means exactly what it said: They found no evidence.

I find it amusing how the Trump camp is interpreting the statement "found no evidence of collusion" as "no collusion".

Really? Here's an excerpt from the letter to congress.

The report explains that the Special Counsel and his staff thoroughly investigated allegations that members of the presidential campaign of Donald J. Trump, and others associated with it, conspired with the Russian government in its efforts to interfere in the 2016 U.S. presidential election, or sought to obstruct the related federal investigations. In the report, the Special Counsel noted that, in completing his investigation, he employed 19 lawyers who were assisted by a team of approximately 40 FBI agents, intelligence analysts, forensic accountants, and other professional staff. The Special Counsel issued more than 2,800 subpoenas, executed nearly 500 search warrants, obtained more than 230 orders for communication records, issued almost 50 orders authorizing use of pen registers, made 13 requests to foreign governments for evidence, and interviewed approximately 500 witnesses.

Given the above and that we already know that the FBI and CIA planted moles (3 of them) into the Trump campaign to try and get them to compromise them into collusion (all already reported on during the Flynn and most recently the popadopolous trials and the initiation into the Roger Stone and Corsi activities). There were multiple attempts but all were rebuffed.

I find it interesting that you think Trump doesn't listen to or coordinate with his own advisors but on the other hand can so masterfully pull off a collusion scheme this entailed.

Oh, and that doesn't even include the two congressional investigations that also came up with zip, zilch, nada...

At some point, the anti-Trumpers are going to have to come to grips with the fact that after unlimited power, 19 lawyers, 40 FBI agents, etc the accusations that divided this country so deeply have been proven false. Once they truly grasp that reality, they will have to look at how this all happened which they will then realize that a foreign agent was used to collude with Russians to dig up a fake story against a duly elected president.

When someone is accused of a heinous crime that turns out to not be true, eventually you have to go back to the accuser to find out why and how they perpetrated the accusation.

The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, right? It seems no one will ever be happy with any result except guilty.

All this keeps coming back to for me is there's people who don't like him so they want him gone. That means hanging on to anything an everything that has even the slightest possibility to sink him. This is why I tell people I'll laugh if he wins again in 2020. The opposition is bringing this on themselves by focusing on taking Trump down instead of focusing on putting forth a viable candidate. There has to be better out there.

idhawkman wrote:At some point, the anti-Trumpers are going to have to come to grips with the fact that after unlimited power, 19 lawyers, 40 FBI agents, etc the accusations that divided this country so deeply have been proven false. Once they truly grasp that reality, they will have to look at how this all happened which they will then realize that a foreign agent was used to collude with Russians to dig up a fake story against a duly elected president.

When someone is accused of a heinous crime that turns out to not be true, eventually you have to go back to the accuser to find out why and how they perpetrated the accusation.

Kind of like Whitewater huh, all they get after all the years is the blue dress with spooge on it! Oh he lied under oath, Trump will NEVER be allowed to go under oath!

idhawkman wrote:Oh, and that doesn't even include the two congressional investigations that also came up with zip, zilch, nada...

They havent even started IDH, they just came in two months ago.

obiken wrote:Not true, the POTUS cannot fire the FBI Director without a reason, by law. He is not like a cabinet member.

So you're saying if it wasn't legal for Trump to fire the Director of the F.B.I. that Comey and the Dems couldn't have had him immediately brought him up on charges and that decorated, straight-shooting Marine Mueller wouldn't have indicted almost immediately for obstruction? Yeah, ok. Keep dreaming. If what Trump did was illegal, he would have been done as soon as he did it. And would especially be brought up on charges right now. You did notice that Comey doesn't like Trump and would gladly see him prosecuted if there were real violations of the law. Comey hasn't even filed a wrongful termination suit to my knowledge. And if Trump didn't have power and cause to fire him, then there would at least be a wrongful termination suit.

I want to see what law your referring to because as far as I know the president gets to choose and/or approve the head of Federal law enforcement and intelligence agencies. Sometimes they keep the guy already there, sometimes they choose a new one.

obiken wrote:They havent even started IDH, they just came in two months ago.

And what pray tell is the precursor to any investigation they may want to launch against him now? They can't just go fishing....

idhawkman wrote:Don't believe what CNN and MSNBC is telling you Bob, it is over for collusion and obstruction. Regarding the SDNY, they will try to do something but Barr won't let them do anything even remotely as nefarious as what the last 3 investigations did into a charge that was made out of thin air. There's going to have to be a good reason for the IRS to give out anyone's tax returns and I just don't see that going anywhere either since they too, are an arm of the administrative branch.

The dems will huff and they will puff but this is pretty much DOA from here forward.

The whole country should be celebrating knowing that the Russian's tried to influence the president and all efforts were rebuffed.

C-bob]/b], [b]hawktawk, obiken and the like hate Trump. You won't convince them of anything. I watched this trash with Bush Jr. where they all insisted he started an illegal war and yet he wasn't touched for any of that stuff by either party or anyone, but they insisted it was true because that was the narrative they wanted to believe. This is the same situation.

Riverdog dislikes Trump, but will be more reasonable if the evidence fits. I don't care for Trump, but at this point I don't see any impeachable offenses. I could literally write an entire list of things Trump has done that has been done by previous administrations. The main difference I see between Trump and previous administrations is Trump is louder and more obnoxious than most presidents. As far as the womanizing and the rest, business as usual for American politicians.

There have been a series of monumental mistakes by the MSM that they need to address.

1. Covington
2. Kavanaugh
3. Collusion
4. Smollett
5. Avenatti (without the MSM, no one would ever know his name. They paraded him around and gave him a platform and even suggested he run for president)

The media has lost all credibility that they ever had and they need to really do as my father suggested, "take a long hard look in the mirror."

obiken wrote:They havent even started IDH, they just came in two months ago.

SDNY and tax/financial crimes are their best bet. Some powerful Democrats in New York pushing this. It would be smart of Trump to start pushing back on these Dems if he can, though I think the combined wealth of the New York Dems is more than Trump. So that will be a very, very insane game of wealthy people going after each other. Bloomberg and his supporters versus Trump and his supporters. This is likely being heavily pushed by the New York Democratic machine, one of the most powerful in the nation. That's why Hillary was a New York Senator. They are one of the seats of Democratic power in America.