HawkShack.com

I thought that this was just some random internet garbage, but it's apparently being taken seriously enough that there are calls within the WA Legislature for this guy to be removed:

Washington Democrats called for state Rep. Matt Shea to be expelled from the GOP caucus on Monday after a news report revealed he took part in a private group chat that discussed attacking and spying on leftwing activists.

“We can hit them in there (sic) safe spaces,” Bosworth wrote, according to the Guardian. “If we can catch a few of them alone and work him over a little bit.”

Robertson later added “child’s daycare location” to the list of suggested targets.

And, referring to one specific Spokane woman, Robertson described an assault in graphic detail: “Fist full of hair, and face slam, to a Jersey barrier. Treat em like communist revolutionaries. Then shave her bald with a K-Bar USMC field knife.”

The leaked portions of the chat don’t show Shea making threats of violence himself, but there’s also no indication he attempted to dissuade the others.

He appeared to back the idea of conducting surveillance when he asked chat participants for a list of people on whom he should perform background checks.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2019/ ... nce-on-le/

You're really attributing this to the GOP? No. this isn't even close to mainstream.

Spend some time reading antifa and reading about some of the dumb protests and attacks by left leaning folks. Even dumbass Bernie Sanders talking about letting terrorists, rapists, and murderers vote.

Why do you think I despise both sides? Both parties have lost their damn mind. You can read crazy crap like this on both sides for different reasons where it's guys like this acting there in a war or some vegan calling for attacks on humans to protect animals.

Both parties have gone down their respective wormholes into lands far, far away from where I think or at least hope the vast majority of Americans want to be. I think it has a lot to do with not having real issues in this nation. We're so fat, rich, powerful, and bored that we're seeing human creativity used to manufacture issues to provide themselves with a sense of purpose whether it's the right seemingly wanting an endless revolution with an enemy to fight or the left sympathizing and empathizing with everything and anything creating new protected classes human and non-human. It's straight up nutsville in the political scene right now.

Aseahawkfan wrote:You're really attributing this to the GOP? No. this isn't even close to mainstream.

Yea, you're right, I shouldn't be blaming the GOP. But if there's any truth to this story, they need to discipline this guy, kick him out of their caucus. This is possible criminal activity, and he should have reported it immediately to LE.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Spend some time reading antifa and reading about some of the dumb protests and attacks by left leaning folks. Even dumbass Bernie Sanders talking about letting terrorists, rapists, and murderers vote.

Agreed. I remember when Bush 43 was in office, and there was a quote circulating on the far left that said "John Wilkes Booth, Lee Harvey Oswald, and John Hinckley, where are you when we need you?"

Aseahawkfan wrote:Why do you think I despise both sides? Both parties have lost their damn mind. You can read crazy crap like this on both sides for different reasons where it's guys like this acting there in a war or some vegan calling for attacks on humans to protect animals.

Both parties have gone down their respective wormholes into lands far, far away from where I think or at least hope the vast majority of Americans want to be. I think it has a lot to do with not having real issues in this nation. We're so fat, rich, powerful, and board that we're seeing human creativity used to manufacture issues to provide themselves with a sense of purpose whether it's the right seemingly wanting an endless revolution with an enemy to fight or the left sympathizing and empathizing with everything and anything creating new protected classes human and non-human. It's straight up nutsville in the political scene right now.

Yup. Just like the Dems failure to discipline this Omar woman that keeps insulting people, making light of the 911 attacks or her thinly veiled anti Semitism. Not much different than Trump saying that the Neo Nazis and KKK had "some very fine people" within their ranks while trying to eulogize the woman they killed.

Not much different than Trump saying that the Neo Nazis and KKK had "some very fine people" within their ranks while trying to eulogize the woman they killed.

They're very, very different.

His was a stupid thing to say, but he clarified later that he wasn't intending to refer to the actual neo-Nazis (but rather just to people on both sides of the debate). She makes those kind of statements regularly, and doubles down on them when called out.

RiverDog wrote:Not much different than Trump saying that the Neo Nazis and KKK had "some very fine people" within their ranks while trying to eulogize the woman they killed.

burrrton wrote:They're very, very different.

His was a stupid thing to say, but he clarified later that he wasn't intending to refer to the actual neo-Nazis (but rather just to people on both sides of the debate). She makes those kind of statements regularly, and doubles down on them when called out.

I agree that Omar "doubles down". She does it because she has apologists like AOC backing her up and Pelosi is too weak kneed to bring her to task for it. It's just another example how far left the Dems have migrated if they can't keep radicals like her in line.

But I absolutely disagree with you about Trump's comments. His attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube by "clarifying" his remarks was completely inadequate. Which two "sides" did he think were involved? He said it while he was trying to express sympathy for the woman that was murdered by the KKK, not in some debate forum with people expressing different POV's. Even a heartfelt apology wouldn't make up for throwing shade to those disgusting wastes of skin and bone. And you guys wonder why I think he's a racist.

RiverDog wrote:Yup. Just like the Dems failure to discipline this Omar woman that keeps insulting people, making light of the 911 attacks or her thinly veiled anti Semitism. Not much different than Trump saying that the Neo Nazis and KKK had "some very fine people" within their ranks while trying to eulogize the woman they killed.

Ilhan is expressing what most Muslims believe. I've heard everything she's said and worse from every Muslim I have ever spent time talking politics with save for perhaps one guy that has accepted Western culture whole hog even to the point where he eats pork on occasion. What can the Dems do if they want to keep their Muslim base when this is a common belief system with Muslims? They really do have to walk a fine line because what Muslims teach in the countries these folks come from is anti-Semitic. The beliefs Muslims practice in their nation are anti-Semitic, anti-Christian, highly oppressive and intolerant, and reinforced by archaic, draconian laws that harken back to The Dark Ages of Europe. When you have this situation, how do you undo it the way the Dems are by just ignoring it? I don't know.

I knew next to nothing about Islamic laws other than what I read in the paper or news until I started chatting up Muslims. They have some really nice, great people from those lands. Generous, caring, sharing, good citizens who want to be good people. Most work hard, take care of their families, and have never experienced open freedom like this in their lives.

But they been raised in the equivalent of the racist South pre-Civil War as far as their religious is concerned. Replace the racial attitudes taught back them with Islam is Supreme and you will have a better understanding of the belief systems they are raised under. You could basically name them Islamic Supremacists and if they ever gain power, all the people making it seem like Islam was just another religion are going to find out that it isn't. That it is a very war-like religion that tolerates no challengers to its supremacy. Outbreeding and patiently waiting for opportunities to kill their "enemies" is very much a part of their culture. In fact, it is built in. As a Muslim guy explained to me, it's ok for him to marry a non-Muslim woman, but the children from that union are Muslim and they cannot convert to any other religion or he will disown them. Women cannot marry a non-Muslim man because that puts them at risk of being influenced away from Islam. This was not something I read on some anti-Muslim web site, it is a summation of what I've been told by every Muslim I've ever met. It's in the Quran. It's a part of their belief.

Islam was built to convert and control like most religions. Main difference is violence is a sanctioned part of the process unlike say Christianity where violence is very much a sin per the creator and founder of the Religion, not necessarily the practitioners as we know plenty of Christians have done violence in the name of their beliefs.

I'm hoping the draconian beliefs are broken before something even more evil than we've seen happens because the people are some really great people. I'm not sure if Trump meant in the same way I do, but he's right in that some really great people can be taught some very evil ideas that make them behave in a cruel manner. I've met so many people who have strange beliefs that would be better friends and family members than the most open-minded, tolerant,and educated human alive. It's sad to see so many fine people taught so much rubbish. Then again we humans are products of our environment and it's very hard to simply invent our belief systems when you live in a society that works so hard to ensure you conform to the power structure of the society.

His attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube by "clarifying" his remarks was completely inadequate.

Oh nonsense- contrition is contrition, and it would be *completely* out of character for him to express it if it weren't genuine.

Which two "sides" did he think were involved?

People that want the statues taken down and people that don't (which, if I recall, includes you, or at least you're ambivalent).

Are you under the impression there were no other groups there besides the neo-Nazi skidmarks that felt the statue should be left alone??

RiverDog wrote:I agree that Omar "doubles down". She does it because she has apologists like AOC backing her up and Pelosi is too weak kneed to bring her to task for it. It's just another example how far left the Dems have migrated if they can't keep radicals like her in line.

But I absolutely disagree with you about Trump's comments. His attempt to put the toothpaste back in the tube by "clarifying" his remarks was completely inadequate. Which two "sides" did he think were involved? He said it while he was trying to express sympathy for the woman that was murdered by the KKK, not in some debate forum with people expressing different POV's. Even a heartfelt apology wouldn't make up for throwing shade to those disgusting wastes of skin and bone. And you guys wonder why I think he's a racist.

You think he's a racist because you get an idea in your head and never let it go. I could point out that Trump has had plenty of folks of African-American descent representing his brand name, employed them in his business, and never much espoused racist ideas or was known for them until he became president. But you'll take decades of not being known as a racist, donating to organizations like the NAACP, and fraternizing with folks of varying nationalities in business and social circumstances and discard them because the media takes some of things he says and frames them perfectly for folks like you to consider him racist. You don't care about the decades of not exhibiting racist attitudes and focus on what you've been sold, just like the majority of Trump haters in America.

I may have bought that narrative if I hadn't been following Trump for decades. Never known him to be a racist until he ran for Republican president. Don't have a lot of quotes from all the celebrity folks including celebrities of Latin or African descent saying he was a racist prior to now. He's associated with a lot of different folks in public and private for decades.

I read up on the specific incident you are talking about. It wasn't all white supremacists there. It was during the Southern Flag banning period. There were a lot of folks showing up to those protests for Southern Pride. The left wing media painted them all as racists with the same broad brush regardless of why they were there. They may not even have wanted the Neo-Nazis there, but that doesn't matter. It doesn't fit the leftist narrative if people are showing up to protest the banning of the Confederate Flag for historical reasons or their attack on Trump narrative.

I imagine we'll never agree on this and that's ok. I've followed Trump a lot longer than you. Near as I can tell this racist narrative was a carefully constructed narrative by the left taking any comment they possible could and pushing it out there regardless of context and regardless of his historical attitudes and actions with folks of all types. I don't overlook that material. I'm not lead around by the nose by the media. I know this guy. He's never been a racist that I know of.

Narcissist. Yep. Jerk. Yep. Arrogant. Yep. Amazing salesman and worker of crowds. Yep. Womanizer. Yep. Takes care of his children. Yep. Lots of things Trump has been. Racist? Not before he ran as a Republican president. In my lifetime, I've never been a Republican candidate not pushed as a racist. Most Americans of African descent I know of refer to the Republican Party as the Republikkkan Party. Democrats have been very successful at painting Repubs as racist. It was bound to happen that a strong immigration control president would give them plenty of ammo.

burrrton wrote:People that want the statues taken down and people that don't (which, if I recall, includes you, or at least you're ambivalent).

Are you under the impression there were no other groups there besides the neo-Nazi skidmarks that felt the statue should be left alone??

Glad someone remembers what was happening during the period of that quote. Seems people forget there was something other than White Supremacy happening at that time when the Federal, State, and Local government went on their confederate ban spree. Trump's comments were reasonable for the particular incident he was referring to. He was in no way backing White Supremacists. He was sympathizing with Southerners protesting to protect their history. Media ran with it to further build their Trump the racist narrative.

Trump wasn't talking about the people that didn't want the statute removed, he was talking about the violence that ensued. Here's the full quote and the context it was made in:

“What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right?” Trump said. “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”
“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me,” he said.
“You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

That's not the only "both sides" or "many sides" remark that he's made in assessing that incident:

We’re closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence — on many sides, on many sides.”

And again:

“I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it,” Trump said then. In a quip that sparked fury, he then said there were “very fine people on both sides,” in Charlottesville.

He's not talking about the people that wanted the statute to remain, he's speaking directly to the violent behavior in Charlottesville, and rather than drawing a distinction between the KKK and the counter protesters, he considers them to be equal. Only one side had blood on their hands.

It would be one thing if he made a gaff then corrected it, but he kept repeating the same "many sides" or "both sides" assessment.

And FYI, I was for removing the statute and relocating it in a Confederate cemetery or a museum rather than a public park, town square, or courthouse.

Trump is a racist and proves it regularly but the 33% or whatever are too so they love it.

*sigh*

Ok, fine- go with your reading of it, RD- can you not admit he tried to walk it back, whether you think it was a genuine defense of white supremacist murder or not?

Does that not separate his remark from Ilhan's consistent and unrepentant behavior at all to you?

burrrton wrote:*sigh*

Ok, fine- go with your reading of it, RD- can you not admit he tried to walk it back, whether you think it was a genuine defense of white supremacist murder or not?

Does that not separate his remark from Ilhan's consistent and unrepentant behavior at all to you?

The problem with his "walk back" was that it was a day late and a dollar short, or to be more accurate, two days late. It wasn't until he saw almost universal condemnation of his remarks, including many from his own party, that he decided to "walk back" from them. 48 hours is a long time for someone that's on Twitter as much as he is.

Secondly, he never accepted responsibility for making them, attributing them to what he says was a misinterpretation in "fake news" spread by the liberal media even though Fox was reporting the exact same thing. Had he said something like "I misspoke, that's not what I meant", then I could accept it as an apology even though such behavior isn't anything he's ever demonstrated.

And thirdly, he kept going back and digging a deeper and deeper hole by continuing to try and to assign blame equally by using almost identical terms, exchanging "both" or "two" for his original "many" sides, saying that there are "fine people on both sides", and so on. If he truly regretted how he worded his original remarks, it sure as hell didn't resonate with him as he didn't change his terminology in how he subsequently referred to the incident.

I agree that Trump doesn't defend white supremist groups, but he won't call them for what they are: A group of domestic terrorists and then leave it at that. He always has to go on and qualify his remarks by inserting this "many sides" or "both sides" crapola. It gives me the impression that he's not sincere.

As far as Omar's behavior goes, I see similarities to Trump's gaffs in that she doesn't accept responsibility for them but rather her or her surrogates claim that people are making a big deal out of them because it's a Muslim that's making them, not because the comments are insensitive and anti Semantic. And as with Trump, I don't hear any remorse, any expressions of regret, or any asking for forgiveness. And as with Trump, she doesn't learn her lesson and keeps repeating the same mistakes.

The problem with his "walk back" was that it was a day late and a dollar short, or to be more accurate, two days late.

But he did walk it back. Thanks.

The problem with his "walk back" was that it was a day late and a dollar short, or to be more accurate, two days late.

burrrton wrote:But he did walk it back. Thanks.

Not only did he walk back, but he didn't say the 'N' word, either. So case closed.

RiverDog wrote:Trump wasn't talking about the people that didn't want the statute removed, he was talking about the violence that ensued. Here's the full quote and the context it was made in:

“What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right?” Trump said. “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”
“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me,” he said.
“You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

That's not the only "both sides" or "many sides" remark that he's made in assessing that incident:

We’re closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence — on many sides, on many sides.”

And again:

“I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it,” Trump said then. In a quip that sparked fury, he then said there were “very fine people on both sides,” in Charlottesville.

He's not talking about the people that wanted the statute to remain, he's speaking directly to the violent behavior in Charlottesville, and rather than drawing a distinction between the KKK and the counter protesters, he considers them to be equal. Only one side had blood on their hands.

It would be one thing if he made a gaff then corrected it, but he kept repeating the same "many sides" or "both sides" assessment.

And FYI, I was for removing the statute and relocating it in a Confederate cemetery or a museum rather than a public park, town square, or courthouse.

Explain to me how that is dishonest or racist? Seems like a reasonable and truthful response. Thanks for being honest and showing the entire context.

Sorry, I don't buy that the left protesters were acting peaceful. I've seen leftists protesting. They do a lot to incite and annoy and drive violence as well.

He's right, both sides caused trouble. How is that racist? Explain. And the violence was done by what? One guy driving his car into a group. You act like the entire group went guns blazing on the leftist protesters. That certainly didn't happen. Do you think Trump was saying that one guy was a good guy? I don't see that in his comments.

I love how the leftist media will completely attempt to avoid calling out Muslim terror when they run into a crowd with a car, but they're Johnny on the Spot with white supremacy attacks and trying to build up that narrative, especially so while Trump is in office. You're buying into the spoonfed narrative absent real evidence. How do we even compare white supremacy attacks? I was reading church attacks on Americans of African descent since I was young. The Neo-Nazis and Aryan Nations been around for ages. Now it's supposedly worse under Trump? Sounds like a BS narrative the media is pushing due to their outsized influence on the American psyche. They can push any narrative they want and drag the lemmings around by the nose without much evidence.

This is all just dumb. I hate American politics and all the dumb it spawns.

RiverDog wrote:The problem with his "walk back" was that it was a day late and a dollar short, or to be more accurate, two days late. It wasn't until he saw almost universal condemnation of his remarks, including many from his own party, that he decided to "walk back" from them. 48 hours is a long time for someone that's on Twitter as much as he is.

Secondly, he never accepted responsibility for making them, attributing them to what he says was a misinterpretation in "fake news" spread by the liberal media even though Fox was reporting the exact same thing. Had he said something like "I misspoke, that's not what I meant", then I could accept it as an apology even though such behavior isn't anything he's ever demonstrated.

And thirdly, he kept going back and digging a deeper and deeper hole by continuing to try and to assign blame equally by using almost identical terms, exchanging "both" or "two" for his original "many" sides, saying that there are "fine people on both sides", and so on. If he truly regretted how he worded his original remarks, it sure as hell didn't resonate with him as he didn't change his terminology in how he subsequently referred to the incident.

I agree that Trump doesn't defend white supremist groups, but he won't call them for what they are: A group of domestic terrorists and then leave it at that. He always has to go on and qualify his remarks by inserting this "many sides" or "both sides" crapola. It gives me the impression that he's not sincere.

As far as Omar's behavior goes, I see similarities to Trump's gaffs in that she doesn't accept responsibility for them but rather her or her surrogates claim that people are making a big deal out of them because it's a Muslim that's making them, not because the comments are insensitive and anti Semantic. And as with Trump, I don't hear any remorse, any expressions of regret, or any asking for forgiveness. And as with Trump, she doesn't learn her lesson and keeps repeating the same mistakes.

So you have one incident that somehow convinces you he's a racist and many where he hasn't been? Why do you choose to believe this specific incident proves your point? I don't get it.

He's trying to walk a line with his base. He did clearly condemn white supremacy and Nazis. He's also making it clear the left does their fair share of crap.

Seems you're doing the same thing I've seen the right do when they question why folks like Obama and Hilary don't say Islamic extremist or acknowledge attacks on Christians by Muslims worldwide. A politician walking the line with his base is not some proof of racism. I would love to sift your history of conversation to see if you've made any remotely racist comments and watch the media have a field day with it. I'd bet money a lot of it, nearly all I had that your sifted conversations would get you painted by a racist in the media. Not handling this situation perfectly doesn't make Trump a racist. Nor does pushing ideas in the immigration control community that are true as in lots of criminals pass over the Southern border. IT is documented that we have thousands of criminals come over the Southern border running drugs, part of criminal Latin gangs, and escapring justice in Mexico. Yet you see him talking about it and in your mind he's a racist. Yet it's documented. You read some study saying immigrants did less crime than citizens. I would prefer that study be focused on Latin America than general immigrants. I think would find a higher percentage of crime amongst Latin immigrants not because of racist BS, but proximity to the border and the criminal organizations that have been built up over time in those locations.

Every time this is brought up the person is branded a racist, even with documented evidence it is happening> They act like Latin Gangs weren't established by foreign money with foreign connections. Hey, we have a gang problem. How did that happen? Did Immigration have anything to do with it? Of course not. Why you buying that BS, man? Half my family is Mexican and they don't buy that BS. They know where not to go where Mexican and Latin gangs with mess you up and where not to go in Mexico and South/Central America because of criminal organizations running things. Only willfully ignorant Americans are buying into the narrative that those organizations aren't coming across the Southern border and exploiting our loose immigration.

Hawktawk wrote:Trump is a racist and proves it regularly but the 33% or whatever are too so they love it.

You're opinion is about as valuable as a ball bouncing between two walls. You claim you're some kind of conservative Christian. You get a president in office who has done more conservative Christians in recent history and you're piling on him because you hate him. You don't have real values. You hate Trump and push whatever your hate tells you to regardless of whether it aligns with your values. Trump's policies have literally been the strongest conservative push since Reagan and you're just hating the guy because he's a jerk of a man. You can't divorce policy from personality.

I'd rather see Trump stay in office than these Democrat clowns I see running. They'll bankrupt the nation and turn us into a worse cesspool of no accountability, political correctness, and the other trash they're pushing.

You want to talk about a guy willing to sell the country down the river because you hate a guy, you're that guy. I guess Riverdog is part of that club now. But screw that, I'm not doing it. I do not want this group looney Dems running this nation. They are worse than Trump.

Sanders wants convicted terrorists and rapists voting. Warren wants crazy taxes and business regulations. Most of these other clowns want to run on ideas we can't pay for. Somehow you and RD think that's better for the nation? Hell no. I'll take the conservative jackass narcissist over those clowns.

Maybe I could stomach Biden or Buttieg, but I doubt either can beat Trump. Biden comes off as weak. He has to play up too much to the crazy left to get their votes. Buttieg is a wild card.

Aseahawkfan wrote:So you have one incident that somehow convinces you he's a racist and many where he hasn't been? Why do you choose to believe this specific incident proves your point? I don't get it.

I never once said that this single incident is what convinced me that he's a racist. It is one of a number examples.

Some time ago, you, me, and burrton got into it over whether or not Trump was a racist, and I brought forth a number of examples of why I felt that way. It did little to sway either of you, so there's no point in covering the same ground again as we'll end up right back where we started.

Aseahawkfan wrote:He's trying to walk a line with his base. He did clearly condemn white supremacy and Nazis. He's also making it clear the left does their fair share of crap.

The vast majority of Trump's base of hard core followers condemn white supremacy, so I don't see the need for him to constantly qualify his remarks even for political purposes. It's one of those universal issues that 90%-95% of the population can agree on. Plus his condemnation is extremely lame given the historical context of the KKK and the Nazis. Like I said, if he wasn't a racist, he'd come out and call white supremacy for what it is, but instead, he gives them shade by considering them equals at the table or indicating that there are rational minded people within the ranks of white supremacist movement.

Sorry I didn't respond to the balance of your remarks and I want to assure you that I did read them, but like I said, we've covered this ground before so there's no sense in us wasting anymore time on this subject than we already have. We're at the point where we should just shake hands and agree to disagree.

Aseahawkfan wrote:You want to talk about a guy willing to sell the country down the river because you hate a guy, you're that guy. I guess Riverdog is part of that club now. But screw that, I'm not doing it. I do not want this group looney Dems running this nation. They are worse than Trump.

Sanders wants convicted terrorists and rapists voting. Warren wants crazy taxes and business regulations. Most of these other clowns want to run on ideas we can't pay for. Somehow you and RD think that's better for the nation? Hell no. I'll take the conservative jackass narcissist over those clowns.

Just to set the record straight, at this time...and I have yet to research all of the 20 some Dem candidates that have announced...the only Dem I'd vote for would be Biden. If someone like Sanders or Warren win the nomination, I'll be casting a protest vote like I did in 2016. But I will never, ever, cast a vote for Trump.

RiverDog wrote:Trump wasn't talking about the people that didn't want the statute removed, he was talking about the violence that ensued. Here's the full quote and the context it was made in:

“What about the alt-left that came charging at, as you say, at the alt-right?” Trump said. “Do they have any semblance of guilt?”
“I’ve condemned neo-Nazis. I’ve condemned many different groups. But not all of those people were neo-Nazis, believe me,” he said.
“You had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and white nationalists,” Trump said. “The press has treated them absolutely unfairly.

That's not the only "both sides" or "many sides" remark that he's made in assessing that incident:

We’re closely following the terrible events unfolding in Charlottesville, Va. We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence — on many sides, on many sides.”

And again:

“I think there’s blame on both sides, and I have no doubt about it,” Trump said then. In a quip that sparked fury, he then said there were “very fine people on both sides,” in Charlottesville.

He's not talking about the people that wanted the statute to remain, he's speaking directly to the violent behavior in Charlottesville, and rather than drawing a distinction between the KKK and the counter protesters, he considers them to be equal. Only one side had blood on their hands.

It would be one thing if he made a gaff then corrected it, but he kept repeating the same "many sides" or "both sides" assessment.

And FYI, I was for removing the statute and relocating it in a Confederate cemetery or a museum rather than a public park, town square, or courthouse.

I read this for what it is. I think it amazing that you can read his mind and tell exactly who he was talking about. That said, posting quotes like this make me think you might want to stop digging since the hole you're already in is pretty good size.

Unlike what River posted as the "full context" of this situation, you may have a different opinion of who he was talking about when you actually watch the full context here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmaZR8E12bs Its very obvious he talked about the protesters for the statue and he even specifically addresses the Neo-Nazis and Supremacists. I think the delay and re-clarification of 2 days later is because the media kept pushing only the side that River is portraying here.

It did little to sway either of you

For good reason.

Riverdog is convinced. Never seen him change his mind, so what's the point any longer. As far as the others, they think Trump is the devil and are convinced of it regardless of what he does.

I don't think Trump is a racist at least not in any kind of KKK, bring back the Jim Crow days way. Maybe in a New York stay with your own way, but even that I don't know since I don't know the man personally.

I definitely don't buy the BS media driven narrative. They do that to nearly every Republican candidate I've ever seen. Latch on to some comment or picture and drive home the Republicans are racist narrative every election. They have to keep the minority vote with the racism boogieman or they'd lose every election.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Riverdog is convinced. Never seen him change his mind, so what's the point any longer. As far as the others, they think Trump is the devil and are convinced of it regardless of what he does.

I don't think Trump is a racist at least not in any kind of KKK, bring back the Jim Crow days way. Maybe in a New York stay with your own way, but even that I don't know since I don't know the man personally.

I definitely don't buy the BS media driven narrative. They do that to nearly every Republican candidate I've ever seen. Latch on to some comment or picture and drive home the Republicans are racist narrative every election. They have to keep the minority vote with the racism boogieman or they'd lose every election.

Well I don't think that's going to work this time around since Trump has doubled his support among Black voters already. I am not sure the increase in hispanic and asian voters but its also positive. You think their minds exploded over the last election, wait till you see them explode over the 2020 results.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Riverdog is convinced. Never seen him change his mind, so what's the point any longer.

Guilty as charged. And yes, that's why I said it's time to shake hands and agree to disagree. I'm open minded and will listen to opinions, but I'm also a "prove it" person that won't give up on an idea or thought unless and until it's proven otherwise, and I haven't seen or heard anything from you, burrton, or Idahawk that would change my mind.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't think Trump is a racist at least not in any kind of KKK, bring back the Jim Crow days way. Maybe in a New York stay with your own way, but even that I don't know since I don't know the man personally.

Strike the "I don't think Trump is a racist" from they first part of that sentence and I'll agree with you.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I definitely don't buy the BS media driven narrative. They do that to nearly every Republican candidate I've ever seen. Latch on to some comment or picture and drive home the Republicans are racist narrative every election. They have to keep the minority vote with the racism boogieman or they'd lose every election.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. J/B the media has labeled every Republican POTUS candidate a racist and was wrong in doing so doesn't mean that they are wrong about Trump.

J/B the media has labeled every Republican POTUS candidate a racist and was wrong in doing so doesn't mean that they are wrong about Trump.

This is correct, but I apparently require more proof than you do for such a serious charge, especially for someone for whom there should be mountains of incontrovertible evidence given the extent of time he's been in the public eye.

burrrton wrote:This is correct, but I apparently require more proof than you do for such a serious charge, especially for someone for whom there should be mountains of incontrovertible evidence given the extent of time he's been in the public eye.

These are all copy and paste incidents from just one article on Trump's racist behavior, which does not include Charlottesville. And note that even former House speaker Paul Ryan called Trump a racist:

He attacked Muslim Gold Star parents. In response to the devastating speech, Trump seized on Ghazala Khan’s silence to insinuate that she was forbidden from speaking due to the couple’s Islamic faith. “If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say. You tell me,” Trump said in an interview with ABC News that first appeared on July 30.

He claimed a judge was biased because “he’s a Mexican”. “He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.” Curiel, it should be noted, is an American citizen who was born in Indiana. And as a prosecutor in the late 1990s, he went after Mexican drug cartels, making him a target for assassination by a Tijuana drug lord.

Even members of Trump’s own party slammed the racist remarks. “Claiming a person can’t do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said in a reaction to Trump’s comments, though he clarified that he still endorses the nominee.

The Justice Department sued his company ― twice ― for not renting to black people.

Workers at Trump’s casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, have accused him of racism over the years. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

Trump disparaged his black casino employees as “lazy” in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Trump has also faced charges of reneging on commitments to hire black people. In 1996, 20 African Americans in Indiana sued Trump for failing to honor a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a riverboat casino on Lake Michigan.

Three times in a row on Feb. 28, Trump sidestepped opportunities to renounce white nationalist and former KKK leader David Duke, who told his radio audience last week that voting for any candidate other than Trump is “really treason to your heritage.”

And most recently, the Trump campaign announced that one of its California primary delegates was William Johnson, chair of the white nationalist American Freedom Party. The Trump campaign subsequently said his inclusion was a mistake, and Johnson withdrew his name at their request.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-t ... 60bf777e83

Let me know when we reach the mountaintop.

Thanks for illustrating the point, RD.

And note that even former House speaker Paul Ryan called Trump a racist

No, he didn't- is it really asking too much for you to admit that?

burrrton wrote:Thanks for illustrating the point, RD.

Any time, my friend!

RiverDog wrote: These are all copy and paste incidents from just one article on Trump's racist behavior, which does not include Charlottesville.

This is exactly why I think you're being lead around by the nose.

And note that even former House speaker Paul Ryan called Trump a racist:

He attacked Muslim Gold Star parents. In response to the devastating speech, Trump seized on Ghazala Khan’s silence to insinuate that she was forbidden from speaking due to the couple’s Islamic faith. “If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say. You tell me,” Trump said in an interview with ABC News that first appeared on July 30.

Is he stating the truth? can you prove otherwise? Muslim wives are very subservient to their husbands. As I stated to you multiple times which you continue to ignore. I work with multiple Muslims. They very much tell me their wives do what they tell them. Are not allowed to contradict their husbands, especially in public. They in fact tell me if I was Muslim and married a Muslim wife, then she would know how to be a wife which in their minds means do what they tell them. I don't think Trump is wrong to question such a thing.

Not to mention the father attacked Trump first and he attacks everyone back. It's literally what he does regardless of background.

He claimed a judge was biased because “he’s a Mexican”. “He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.” Curiel, it should be noted, is an American citizen who was born in Indiana. And as a prosecutor in the late 1990s, he went after Mexican drug cartels, making him a target for assassination by a Tijuana drug lord.

When Trump does this he's racist, but when the Dems or some minority does this it's ok? How many times you heard things like a "A white man can't speak on black problems..." or something in a similar vein. You've literally heard Democratic politicians talk about the not being able to speak on minority groups experiences or talk to them about issues because they don't understand. So Trump does something similar and he's racist? Seems to me it's pot calling the kettle black.

Even members of Trump’s own party slammed the racist remarks. “Claiming a person can’t do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said in a reaction to Trump’s comments, though he clarified that he still endorses the nominee.

Republicans are politically correct as well. Are you saying that a racial bias can't exist for a person of the same background? That only exists for white people? So not Mexican judge could possibly be biased towards people of similar ancestry? That's only for white people?

The Justice Department sued his company ― twice ― for not renting to black people.

Microsoft and Amazon have been sued multiple time for discrimination. Does that make Bezos and Gates racist? Going by lawsuits is the weakest evidence you've posted.

Workers at Trump’s casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, have accused him of racism over the years. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

Microsoft and Amazon have been sued multiple time for discrimination. Does that make Bezos and Gates racist? Going by lawsuits is the weakest evidence you've posted.

Trump disparaged his black casino employees as “lazy” in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

Hearsay, but probably your best evidence. A guy writing a book to make money off Trump has to make it controversial. If this is the best you got, it's not great.

Trump has also faced charges of reneging on commitments to hire black people. In 1996, 20 African Americans in Indiana sued Trump for failing to honor a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a riverboat casino on Lake Michigan.

Lawsuits are a bad way to rate whether someone is racist or not.

Three times in a row on Feb. 28, Trump sidestepped opportunities to renounce white nationalist and former KKK leader David Duke, who told his radio audience last week that voting for any candidate other than Trump is “really treason to your heritage.”

Once again, Trump fueled media narrative making issues of stuff he probably doesn't even think about.

And most recently, the Trump campaign announced that one of its California primary delegates was William Johnson, chair of the white nationalist American Freedom Party. The Trump campaign subsequently said his inclusion was a mistake, and Johnson withdrew his name at their request.

Once again, Trump likely not paying attention.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/donald-trump-racist-examples_n_56d47177e4b03260bf777e83

Let me know when we reach the mountaintop.

And you used the Huffpost, a liberal rag literally known for extreme liberalism. And you wonder why I think you're being lead around by the nose.

Why do you ignore the instances of Trump doing kind things for folk of differing backgrounds?

Like Arsenio Hall winning Celebrity Apprentice and representing his brand name?

Or paying for Jennifer Hudson's hotel rooms and putting her up indefinitely when her brother was murdered.

Or donating to the NAACP.

Or pushing Herman Cain for a position in his cabinet?

Or pardoning several folk of African descent from jail and severe crimes.

You ignoring all that to believe what you want?

Instead, you buy into a known highly leftist rag like the Huff post with a mission to destroy Trump as your information source using very loose allegations that could apply to nearly any billionaire and believe them. Sorry bud, you're source is bad, very bad. About as left as it gets. You have ignored all the examples I've given you of Trump being friendly with folk of other backgrounds. You're not interested in proof, rather you're only willing to look at proof that supports your assertions. I've more than proven to you that you have cause to consider Trump not a racist, but you have no willingness to acknowledge that proof. You want to buy into the narrative for the same reason as hawktawk

Just like so many are overlooking the abuse of power and corrupt actions by the Dems right now in attacking a sitting president with near endless investigations. Their abuse of power is so brazen I can't believe the American people are tolerating it.

Ok, fine.

He attacked Muslim Gold Star parents. In response to the devastating speech, Trump seized on Ghazala Khan’s silence to insinuate that she was forbidden from speaking due to the couple’s Islamic faith. “If you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn’t allowed to have anything to say. You tell me,” Trump said in an interview with ABC News that first appeared on July 30.

"Muslim" isn't a race, and wives are considered property (at least in many sects). Asshole move, but not racist.

He claimed a judge was biased because “he’s a Mexican”. “He’s a Mexican,” Trump told CNN of Curiel. “We’re building a wall between here and Mexico. The answer is, he is giving us very unfair rulings — rulings that people can’t even believe.” Curiel, it should be noted, is an American citizen who was born in Indiana. And as a prosecutor in the late 1990s, he went after Mexican drug cartels, making him a target for assassination by a Tijuana drug lord.

Even members of Trump’s own party slammed the racist remarks. “Claiming a person can’t do their job because of their race is sort of like the textbook definition of a racist comment,” House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) said in a reaction to Trump’s comments, though he clarified that he still endorses the nominee.

Yeah, kind of a racist thing to say, but Ryan didn't call *Trump* a racist- he called the comment racist.

The Justice Department sued his company ― twice ― for not renting to black people.

No, they sued his *Dad's* company.

Workers at Trump’s casinos in Atlantic City, New Jersey, have accused him of racism over the years. The New Jersey Casino Control Commission fined the Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $200,000 in 1992 because managers would remove African-American card dealers at the request of a certain big-spending gambler. A state appeals court upheld the fine.

Spineless managers and racist "big spenders" doesn't make Trump a racist.

Trump disparaged his black casino employees as “lazy” in vividly bigoted terms, according to a 1991 book by John O’Donnell, a former president of Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino.

And isn’t it funny. I’ve got black accountants at Trump Castle and Trump Plaza. Black guys counting my money! I hate it,” O’Donnell recalled Trump saying. “The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“I think the guy is lazy,” Trump said of a black employee, according to O’Donnell. “And it’s probably not his fault because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control.”

"According to a book" from almost 30 years ago.

Trump has also faced charges of reneging on commitments to hire black people. In 1996, 20 African Americans in Indiana sued Trump for failing to honor a promise to hire mostly minority workers for a riverboat casino on Lake Michigan.

He "reneged on commitments". I'm sure that's unique to black people in Trump's life.

Three times in a row on Feb. 28, Trump sidestepped opportunities to renounce white nationalist and former KKK leader David Duke, who told his radio audience last week that voting for any candidate other than Trump is “really treason to your heritage.”

And most recently, the Trump campaign announced that one of its California primary delegates was William Johnson, chair of the white nationalist American Freedom Party. The Trump campaign subsequently said his inclusion was a mistake, and Johnson withdrew his name at their request.

He didn't denounce a white supremacist quickly enough, and didn't fire a white nationalist quickly enough.

Like I said.

I shouldn't have taken the bait that burrton hung out there. It doesn't matter how much or what kind of evidence I put forth, you guys are going to find a way to excuse it or trivialize it. It's a wasted exercise in trying to prove or disprove a point when a preexisting condition like that exists.

But don't go away thinking that I'm the only person that feels the way I do. Indeed, you two are in the minority in that most Americans are of the opinion that DJT is a racist:

Fifty-seven percent of all adults, including more than 8 in 10 blacks, three-quarters of Hispanics and nearly half of whites, said they think Trump is racist.

https://apnews.com/9961ee5b3c3b42d29aebdee837c17a11

It doesn't matter how much or what kind of evidence I put forth, you guys are going to find a way to excuse it or trivialize it.

Stated another way, it doesn't matter how trivial or flimsy your "evidence" of his racism is illustrated to be, you're going to find a way to keep telling yourself it's dispositive.

Maybe physician heal thyself.

But don't go away thinking that I'm the only person that feels the way I do. Indeed, you two are in the minority in that most Americans are of the opinion that DJT is a racist:

Mainstream media sources influence public opinion. Film at 11.

[edit- and in all honesty, I'm flabberghasted it's only 57% (and less than half of 'whites'?)!]

RiverDog wrote:I shouldn't have taken the bait that burrton hung out there. It doesn't matter how much or what kind of evidence I put forth, you guys are going to find a way to excuse it or trivialize it. It's a wasted exercise in trying to prove or disprove a point when a preexisting condition like that exists.

A pre-existing condition as in I've followed Trump way longer than you have and have never heard him called a racist until he ran for Republican president? I guess my experience following Trump over the years is exceeded by your experience reading a carefully crafted narrative to paint him as a racist. Yeah sure. I know this guy as well as a person can from afar. I've more than pointed out his flaws. I now he's not a good guy. But as I've stated to you many times, I have never known him to be a racist. Just a loudmouth, arrogant prick that uses whatever he can to push buttons.

But don't go away thinking that I'm the only person that feels the way I do. Indeed, you two are in the minority in that most Americans are of the opinion that DJT is a racist:

Fifty-seven percent of all adults, including more than 8 in 10 blacks, three-quarters of Hispanics and nearly half of whites, said they think Trump is racist.

https://apnews.com/9961ee5b3c3b42d29aebdee837c17a11

Gee, you're not only person falling for a media driven smear campaign. Imagine that. Now Riverdog is falling back on the Hawktawk defense. If the opinion poll says it's true, then it must be true. Sorry bud, opinion polls after a media smear campaign are about as right as asking a Republican what he thinks of Obama after watching Fox news.

I presented plenty of evidence to counter your claim. You don't want to see it. Instead you read some liberal rag by Arianna Huffington, probably a person you don't even know, who is a devoted leftist out to take down Trump.

Sorry, I'll go with my years of following they guy over the media driven narrative. All I see from Trump is him doing Trump. Taking shots at anyone taking shots at him. Playing up to his base like a salesman. He doesn't care as long as he wins. He's not even really a Republican. He's some great salesman that wanted to be president because he could. The sad truth is he is more driven to fulfill his promises than any president I've seen in my lifetime.

Talking about polls, CNN is burying their latest poll that shows Trump with his highest approval rating in their polls to date. Not only that, but 70% of the people polled want AG Barr to investigate the origins of the Russian Collusion debacle. So it should be interesting going forward.

Also, I see where the NY Times has an article about how the FBI sent a Spy to London as an assistant to a CIA spy to try and entrap Popodopolous. Additionally, there is an email that is surfacing tonight on Hannity in a couple minutes that was sent from a DNC member to the UKRAINIAN Govt trying to get them to publish dirt on Manafort and then trying to get the Ukrainian president to visit the U.S. in Oct of 2016 to make a disparaging statement about Manafort as their October surprise. Thank goodness the Ukrainian Govt said no and refused to participate.

To add to the Ukrainian conspiracy piece, Biden threatened the Ukrainian govt to fire one of their prosecutors within 6 hours or he was going to pull $1B of aid to their country. So he used the US taxpayer dollars to fire a Ukrainian prosecutor that was investigating Biden's son.

Popcorn!! Get your popcorn here!!!!

The popcorn is being cooked in a dumpster fire we call Washington D.C.

Aseahawkfan wrote:The popcorn is being cooked in a dumpster fire we call Washington D.C.

yep, its also right next to the dumpster that Will smith kicked in MIB (Men in Black) the original when all the cockroaches came spilling out. They are just about to start running just like the ones in the movie did but Trump will squish a few of them just like Will Smith did in that movie. "Oopsie, was that cousin Fred?"