HawkShack.com

Trump just can't let go of this story about his falsely saying that Alabama was within the strike probability pattern of Hurricane Dorian, going so far as to call a Fox News reporter into his office and lobbying him to buy into Trump's story:

Fox News White House reporter John Roberts said President Donald Trump called him into the Oval Office on Thursday afternoon to argue that he was right about Hurricane Dorian threatening Alabama.

During the meeting, Roberts explained in an internal Fox email obtained by CNN, Trump argued that he was correct in claiming that early projections of Dorian showed it would impact Alabama. "He stressed to me that forecasts for Dorian last week had Alabama in the warning cone," the reporter wrote. "He insisted that it is unfair to say Alabama was never threatened by the storm."

Roberts was among the many reporters who condemned the president's use of the altered map on Wednesday. "This is a forecast track that the president held up from last week where it looked like the hurricane was going to slam into the Florida coast maybe even across the peninsula and get into the Gulf of Mexico," he told host Bret Baier during a Fox News segment yesterday afternoon.

"You can see somebody with a Sharpie or some other writing instruments added a little bit to the cone of uncertainty, which was not a part of the official forecast, which included the Florida panhandle and parts of Alabama," Roberts continued, before concluding that Alabama "was never part of the official forecast."

A White House aide familiar with Roberts' Thursday meeting with Trump told CNN that the president had also criticized Fox News anchor Shephard Smith over his unfavorable coverage of the Alabama map. Trump wanted to "hit back at Shepard Smith," the aide said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics ... spartanntp

If even Fox News is saying Trump was wrong, wouldn't you think that he'd just give up and admit that he made a mistake? Will Trump ever admit to a mistake or take responsibility for the things he says?

There's a law against altering official NWS weather forecast maps, and no one has explained how the map that Trump showed got marked up with a Sharpie. Perhaps we need a special counsel to investigate.

Because he's a narcissistic clown that can't admit when he's wrong. Always been that way and likely a trait that has gotten worse with age. He's used to being the emperor and no one telling him he has no clothes or they're fired. The man's a control freak and he treats The White House like his company.

We need to wait for Idhawkman to show up to give us the Trumpbot news spin.

RD, did you watch Conan in Greenland on Youtube? It's hilarious. Check it out.

Trump just won't let go of this. Now he's pressured managers at NOAA to issue a statement supporting his claim that Alabama could have been impacted by Hurricane Dorian, and it's led to a major imbroglio:

“From Wednesday, Aug. 28, through Monday, Sept. 2, the information provided by NOAA and the National Hurricane Center to President Trump and the wider public demonstrated that tropical-storm-force winds from Hurricane Dorian could impact Alabama,” the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration said in its statement on Friday.

“The Birmingham National Weather Service’s Sunday morning tweet spoke in absolute terms that were inconsistent with probabilities from the best forecast products available at the time,” NOAA added in the statement, which was not attributed to any official.

On Friday night, Dan Sobien, the president of the National Weather Service Employees Organization, tweeted: “Let me assure you the hard working employees of the NWS had nothing to do with the utterly disgusting and disingenuous tweet sent out by NOAA management tonight.”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/trump ... spartanntp

Still no word on who used a Sharpie to alter the chart that Trump used as a graphic.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Because he's a narcissistic clown that can't admit when he's wrong. Always been that way and likely a trait that has gotten worse with age. He's used to being the emperor and no one telling him he has no clothes or they're fired. The man's a control freak and he treats The White House like his company.

We need to wait for Idhawkman to show up to give us the Trumpbot news spin.

I think Idahawkman has bailed. Can't say as I blame him.

Aseahawkfan wrote:RD, did you watch Conan in Greenland on Youtube? It's hilarious. Check it out.

No, but I will. Thanks for the tip.

Looks to me like Hawktawk isn't as far off the chain as many of you guys have been saying he is ...

"He's deteriorating in plain sight," one Republican strategist who's in frequent contact with the White House told Insider on Friday.

Asked why the president was obsessed with Alabama instead of the states that would actually be affected by the storm, the strategist said, "you should ask a psychiatrist about that; I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... ?r=US&IR=T

c_hawkbob wrote:Looks to me like Hawktawk isn't as far off the chain as many of you guys have been saying he is ...

"He's deteriorating in plain sight," one Republican strategist who's in frequent contact with the White House told Insider on Friday.

Asked why the president was obsessed with Alabama instead of the states that would actually be affected by the storm, the strategist said, "you should ask a psychiatrist about that; I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... ?r=US&IR=T

Speaking for myself, it's been Hawktalk's rhetoric that's off the chain more than it is the content of his musings.

In one breath, the "Republican strategist" says Trump's deteriorating in plain sight, and the next breath says he's not qualified to comment? There's been scores of reports of Trump's odd behavior from a variety of sources. I'm not sure what makes this one any different.

From my vantage point 3,000 miles from the Beltway, Trump hasn't changed his demeanor since he started running for office. Nothing he says surprises me.

RiverDog wrote:Speaking for myself, it's been Hawktalk's rhetoric that's off the chain more than it is the content of his musings.

In one breath, the "Republican strategist" says Trump's deteriorating in plain sight, and the next breath says he's not qualified to comment? There's been scores of reports of Trump's odd behavior from a variety of sources. I'm not sure what makes this one any different.

From my vantage point 3,000 miles from the Beltway, Trump hasn't changed his demeanor since he started running for office. Nothing he says surprises me.

What's so wrong with my rhetoric? I'm the first one on this forum to say he's nuts and he clearly is and this Alabama thing is the most recent example. His narcissism is PATHOLOGICAL as is his dishonesty. His twitter blizzards would get him fired from any management job in America. He can't keep the same train of thought for a minute unless it involves being a racist lawless clown or disputing some falsely perceived slight or grievance.As I've said just google anything he was saying on camera 20 or 30 years ago and compare it to the man now with his perpetual scowl, bug eyes, OCD behavior and soulless personality. He was always unwilling to admit being wrong as he felt it made him look "weak" although he's got that ass backwards.But he could at least appear coherent, linguistically adept and even glib and funny at times.Now he is clearly mentally in great decline and the very worst parts of his personality are becoming more dominant and amplified.

What's going on between the ears with this guy who controls our foreign affairs and armed forces cannot be explained by aging and its truly frightening to me and should be to anyone. I was in favor of invoking the 25th amendment weeks into his term and it was brought to light that members of the administration were thinking the same thing around the same time so where was I wrong ?

I was the first on this forum to reject him as anyone I could ever support maybe a week into his candidacy and as a lifelong Republican straight ticket voter since 1978 I am extremely credible a #nevertrump# charter member.

I knew exactly what would happen if he were the president and frankly it's been worse than I could even imagine. This is by far the worst, most unstable unqualified *man* ever to occupy the office. When I say he's the crazy orange witch it just a fact. He's crazy and as a bipolar but medicated man I know whereof I speak, he's a lot crazier than me and I wouldnt want to be a train engineer, pilot or god forbid commander in chief. Hes orange other than the ridiculous looking white raccoon eyes from his tanning bed goggles. And he's the witch the mueller witch hunt caught red handed colluding with our greatest geopolitical foe and clearly laid out a case for obstruction of justice that over 1000 former federal prosecutors signed a letter stating would have gotten anyone else on the planet indicted.

Frankly Bob Mueller was way too easy on the scumbag piece of sh!+. Oh I guess i better watch my rhetoric right RD??? As for ID Hawk and also Burrton they are definitely awol from this side of the forum and we probably all should be for a few months barring some really shocking thing but nothing shocks america with this ass clown anymore. Hes dumbed down the office to the gutter.

Hawktawk wrote:What's so wrong with my rhetoric?

It makes you come off as looking like you're the one that's nuts. You don't use just one or two negative adjectives to describe Trump, you use 5 or 6 in a single paragraph. It's completely unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the points you are trying to make, indeed, they are counterproductive as they cause the reader to focus on you instead of your argument.

You have to understand that if 45% or so of the public voted for him that it has to include a lot of very rational, sane individuals that, for one reason or another, felt he was the best option of those being given. When you criticize Trump in such stark terms, you're insulting the intelligence of those that voted for him. It's this type of language that the far left has been using that's contributing to the split this country is experiencing and created the environment in which someone like Trump can thrive.

I firmly believe that there are a whole lot of people, mostly white males over 50 years old, that have bonded themselves to Trump in a way that causes them to internalize every attack on him as being an attack on them. Whether or not it's true is beside the point. Trump embodies the sentiment of a lot of his supporters that feel they're being made into the bad guy, that everything evil is the fault of a bunch of old, angry white males. There's been times when I've felt that way myself, but I refuse to let myself be influenced by those kinds of generalizations.

You have great points to make and I agree with your takes a lot more than I disagree. But your delivery sucks.

To highlight the point I was trying to make to Hawktalk, I see where the San Francisco City Council passed a resolution calling the NRA a domestic terrorist organization, essentially lumping them into the same category as the KKK and neo Nazis.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49574445

I don't care what your position is on gun control, that type of rhetoric does nothing but make the problem worse.

Hawktawk wrote:What's so wrong with my rhetoric? I'm the first one on this forum to say he's nuts and he clearly is and this Alabama thing is the most recent example. His narcissism is PATHOLOGICAL as is his dishonesty. His twitter blizzards would get him fired from any management job in America. He can't keep the same train of thought for a minute unless it involves being a racist lawless clown or disputing some falsely perceived slight or grievance.As I've said just google anything he was saying on camera 20 or 30 years ago and compare it to the man now with his perpetual scowl, bug eyes, OCD behavior and soulless personality. He was always unwilling to admit being wrong as he felt it made him look "weak" although he's got that ass backwards.But he could at least appear coherent, linguistically adept and even glib and funny at times.Now he is clearly mentally in great decline and the very worst parts of his personality are becoming more dominant and amplified.

What's going on between the ears with this guy who controls our foreign affairs and armed forces cannot be explained by aging and its truly frightening to me and should be to anyone. I was in favor of invoking the 25th amendment weeks into his term and it was brought to light that members of the administration were thinking the same thing around the same time so where was I wrong ?

I was the first on this forum to reject him as anyone I could ever support maybe a week into his candidacy and as a lifelong Republican straight ticket voter since 1978 I am extremely credible a #nevertrump# charter member.

I knew exactly what would happen if he were the president and frankly it's been worse than I could even imagine. This is by far the worst, most unstable unqualified *man* ever to occupy the office. When I say he's the crazy orange witch it just a fact. He's crazy and as a bipolar but medicated man I know whereof I speak, he's a lot crazier than me and I wouldnt want to be a train engineer, pilot or god forbid commander in chief. Hes orange other than the ridiculous looking white raccoon eyes from his tanning bed goggles. And he's the witch the mueller witch hunt caught red handed colluding with our greatest geopolitical foe and clearly laid out a case for obstruction of justice that over 1000 former federal prosecutors signed a letter stating would have gotten anyone else on the planet indicted.

Frankly Bob Mueller was way too easy on the scumbag piece of sh!+. Oh I guess i better watch my rhetoric right RD??? As for ID Hawk and also Burrton they are definitely awol from this side of the forum and we probably all should be for a few months barring some really shocking thing but nothing shocks america with this ass clown anymore. Hes dumbed down the office to the gutter.

What's been so bad about it? We have 3.7% unemployment. The country is stable. We haven't been in any wars other than a stupid trade war.

The worst we have had to do deal with is Trump being Trump. You predicted World War 3, nuclear war, and tons of other trash that never came true and here you are claiming it is "worse than you imagined." When if we went back and parsed your posts, it would be far better than you imagined. But like Trump you seem to have forgotten what you wrote or in essence said. Just like most of the anti-Trumpbots. Your both Trumpbots, one for Trump and one against him. You're both playing his stupid game building him up into a much greater man than he is. To Idhawkman he's one of the best presidents and to you he's one of the worst. To me and [b]RIverdog/b] he's just a dumb clown that needs to go because his mouth and fingers can't stop saying stupid, clown crap and some of his policies are just dumb and ineffective.

All the things that are happening under Trump other than the trade war happened under every other president in recent memory. Literally, life has changed very little. It's more of an example of America building things up as far worse than they actually are for the sake of media ratings and their own individual egos.

It's been more like I predicted. Just a bunch of talk with very little actual changing. All you and the media do is speculate on this and that and what might happen, when none of it actually happens because Trump doesn't do real things. He mostly yaps, while the media takes whatever he says and builds it up into this immense, worthless thing. Like this Alabama thing. The dude made a false statement about Alabama. Now here everyone is including Trump is wasting time talking about it just like his inauguration crowd size. It's just more useless pablum for the masses to bark at each other about while it actually does almost nothing.

The main reason I want this clown out of office is so maybe America can STFU for a while. You would think they lived in some awful place where they were all starving and oppressed to listen to the media and the citizens. It all makes us look so stupid and spoiled. The worst thing about Trump is how he has made our country act and look like idiots as we have make Orange-haired Narcissist into a Hitler-Like figure. If Trump is the American version of Hitler or an Autocrat, then Americans are spoiled idiots that don't know the first thing about real oppression and dictatorships.

What’s bad is that people say that since the economy is good and unemployment is low it’s ok to have a nut who is destroying the dignity of the office, ruining nato, coddling dictators and serving fast food to world and national champions who have earned a black tie affair. The economy is like an aircraft carrier. It takes a long time to turn around but when it does it might sink this time with all the reckless moves he’s making and I doubt China will bail us out.

c_hawkbob wrote:"He's deteriorating in plain sight," one Republican strategist who's in frequent contact with the White House told Insider on Friday.

Asked why the president was obsessed with Alabama instead of the states that would actually be affected by the storm, the strategist said, "you should ask a psychiatrist about that; I'm not sure I'm qualified to comment."

https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-a ... ?r=US&IR=T[/quote]

That's about the thouandths article I've seen anonymously addressing Trump's mental health.

Next week I'll expect about the thousandth article from Trump's doctor or some similar expert claiming his mental health is just fine and he's a genius.

Then I'll read some article from a body language expert about how his wife doesn't want to be around him or touched his hand in a strange way.

Then I'll read an article from her publicist saying she loves her husband and everything is fine.

We all know the guy's a narcissist. I said it from the beginning. I emphasized he was a narcissist. I was literally one of the first posters on here to tell everyone he was a narcissist. I just get ignored because you lump me all the standard conservatives even though I don't even pretend to be a conservative Republican and in fact support some progressive reforms.

It's too bad the world doesn't do what I indicated when he was first elected: ignore him. If the media mostly ignored this guy as did the citizens, then he might actually STFU.

Hawktawk wrote:What’s bad is that people say that since the economy is good and unemployment is low it’s ok to have a nut who is destroying the dignity of the office, ruining nato, coddling dictators and serving fast food to world and national champions who have earned a black tie affair. The economy is like an aircraft carrier. It takes a long time to turn around but when it does it might sink this time with all the reckless moves he’s making and I doubt China will bail us out.

No one is saying that it's OK. What 'people' are saying is that we have peace and prosperity, so even though his behavior is unacceptable and in some cases abhorrent, it is not having a large, lasting affect on our lives.

The economy is going to slow down if not go into a full fledged recession. Although it's my opinion that Trump's trade war is making it worse, it's not the root cause. It's part of the business cycle. Ours is not a controlled economy. We'd be experiencing a slowdown/recession no matter who is in the White House or which party is in control.

Hopefully we only have 16.5 more months before we can put this POS into the history books, but it will still leave us with an unacceptable tenant (Biden, Bernie, Warren?). But life will go on.

Hawktawk wrote:What’s bad is that people say that since the economy is good and unemployment is low it’s ok to have a nut who is destroying the dignity of the office, ruining nato, coddling dictators and serving fast food to world and national champions who have earned a black tie affair. The economy is like an aircraft carrier. It takes a long time to turn around but when it does it might sink this time with all the reckless moves he’s making and I doubt China will bail us out.

No it doesn't. It can literally turn around within months absent the leverage. The leverage is what messes all this up because it takes forever to pay it off and wait for the bankruptcies and such to clear.

You've been in this nation all your life. You've watched numerous recessions and crashes. Mos of them are far shorter than the up cycles. The economy is not anything like an aircraft carrier. I've already stated the leverage is the bigger problem because of its domino like effect on the economy. If it were a just regular recession absent all this leverage, it would last a year or so at the most. With this leverage, who knows how long it will take to clear or how it will affect things when the dominos start to fall and we see who can't pay when the layoffs and demand falls.

The disaster you predicted did not happen. And you know it. He's just a mouthy jackass that talks to much and likes to rile people up. The media isn't helping any building up everything he does up. It's all very annoying. Yeah, I'll give you the dignity of the office. Trump doesn't care about dignity, honor, truth, or any of that stuff most politicians at least pretend to care about. He's all about Trump. He is a 24/7 reality TV show. If you ignore him too long, he'll say something just to get you talking about him again.

You kind of lose me with this leverage comment . What I know is we are running record deficits in an up
Economy. Trump bullying Powell to keep interest rates in the cellar is continuing the stock market rise due to it being the only vehicle to grow money. The huge business tax giveaway that was used by most massive corporations to buy back stock has also been a factor in this. Between this huge deficit and the tax cuts that already have lost steam in terms of stimulation of the economy many experts fear that we have no bullets left in the chamber to pull us out of the next downturn which will happen sooner or later . As a production specialist for genie I can confirm we are in a flat out recession right now with a quarter of our workforce gone, unsold units piling up etc. I think we are a canary in a coal mine. I hope not , I love my job.

As for the disaster I predicted not happening I contend it has been a disaster already and the affects of diminishing the office, providing a road map for future bad actors , dissing our allies while coddling dictators , especially Vlad Putin is an extremely dangerous path. There’s things I fear that I don’t want to be even close to right about. All I know is the good book talks about Babylon the great, surrounded by water, where all the nations of the world come to do business , being destroyed in an hr. Having a decisive , competent moral person who understands who our friends and our enemies are is crucial, not a guy blackmailed by the only nation on the planet with a more potent nuclear arsenal than us. When he came to office I thought he might start a war. Now I fear he will definitely lose an awful
War.

RiverDog wrote:
It makes you come off as looking like you're the one that's nuts. You don't use just one or two negative adjectives to describe Trump, you use 5 or 6 in a single paragraph. It's completely unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the points you are trying to make, indeed, they are counterproductive as they cause the reader to focus on you instead of your argument.

You have to understand that if 45% or so of the public voted for him that it has to include a lot of very rational, sane individuals that, for one reason or another, felt he was the best option of those being given. When you criticize Trump in such stark terms, you're insulting the intelligence of those that voted for him. It's this type of language that the far left has been using that's contributing to the split this country is experiencing and created the environment in which someone like Trump can thrive.

I firmly believe that there are a whole lot of people, mostly white males over 50 years old, that have bonded themselves to Trump in a way that causes them to internalize every attack on him as being an attack on them. Whether or not it's true is beside the point. Trump embodies the sentiment of a lot of his supporters that feel they're being made into the bad guy, that everything evil is the fault of a bunch of old, angry white males. There's been times when I've felt that way myself, but I refuse to let myself be influenced by those kinds of generalizations.

You have great points to make and I agree with your takes a lot more than I disagree. But your delivery sucks.

Ill take my delivery over that of the ostensibly most powerful influential man on the planet with his misspelled psychotic rambling all caps tweets 24-7 .

I hope you have noticed I have scaled back quite a bit on the colorful metaphors but frankly there aren't enough negative adjectives in the english language to adequately describe this man. I get where you're coming from with your 45% comments. I get why general election voters along with Vlad Putin supported him over Hillary.My best friend on the planet of 44 years , a wealthy fast food restaurant chain owner hates the tweets but loves his bottom line. We just dont talk politics.

My only brother supports the guy. Most of my friends support him. I'm not criticizing their intelligence at all. Im criticizing their judgement that if their 401 K looks good, in the case of my friend who made millions off the tax cut aimed at wealthy businessmen that its ok to have a certifiable nutcase and unindicted felon running america.

That's what Mike Pence is for. He's already the guy who does the arm twisting on capitol hill, goes on many of the foreign trips etc.A recent example was Trump skipping a poland trip to monitor Dorian and sending Pence instead.Then Trump golfed 2 days straight as Dorian was flattening the bahamas and engaged in a 5 day twitter war over Alabama. The fact that Pence stayed at Trump resort Royal Turnberry 150 miles from Dublin for a scheduled ireland meeting in Dublin fleecing the taxpayers for millions is besides the point.

What "sucks" is that 45% of the public give or take thinks there is any reason whatsoever to allow this man another day in office without impeachment proceedings commencing immediately. It sucks that the republican operative you mentioned can say the man is "deteriorating daily" and yet everyone in the party from Moscow Mitch to former virulent critic turned bobblehead Sycophant Graham defends him publicly strictly to save their own political hide.Privately they will say what the strategist you quoted earlier in the thread said, he's nuts, he's bad for america, he's off the chain but they dont have the nutz to lay it on the line for the good of the country. It's the same reason Pelosi and the Dems are slow walking their inquiry into his corrupt administration and even more corrupt business practices. Political expediency. RD it SUCKS that politicians of all stripes with very few exceptions care more about being reelected than doing what's right.If the man were an airline pilot he would be escorted out of the cockpit by security. Why is it ok if he's the president of the united states?

Growing up during watergate I watched a president with many accomplishments, an intelligent well spoken man re elected in a landslide be run out of office in disgrace 2 years later for doing things not nearly as egregious as what trump is doing now every day.

America has certainly not gotten a bit greater in the last few years, quite the contrary.Im not sure we can just flip the switch after this guy is gone, hopefully in Jan 2021 or god forbid 2025. Can you truly imagine 5.5 more years of this ?

Hawktawk wrote: Growing up during watergate I watched a president with many accomplishments, an intelligent well spoken man re elected in a landslide be run out of office in disgrace 2 years later for doing things not nearly as egregious as what trump is doing now every day.

The biggest difference between Watergate and anything Trump has done or is accused of doing is the evidence. In Watergate, the smoking gun was the tapes that clearly showed that Nixon was directing the cover-up. A lesser factor was that he had a close associate in the form of John Dean that testified before Congress, something that was missing in the Clinton impeachment. There is no tangible evidence implicating Trump that rises to the level of the Watergate tapes and no kiss and tell associate like John Dean spilling their guts in front of Congress and the nation.

Impeaching Trump is a dead issue. The only reason Pelosi is even entertaining the idea is to appease the left wing of the party.

Hawktawk wrote:America has certainly not gotten a bit greater in the last few years, quite the contrary.Im not sure we can just flip the switch after this guy is gone, hopefully in Jan 2021 or god forbid 2025. Can you truly imagine 5.5 more years of this ?

We've recovered from far worse situations. Life will go on.

We've never had a situation remotely like this. Just in the last 48 hours news breaks that Commerce Sec Wilbur ross called the acting NOAA secretary and threatened him with his job along with numerous others if he did not issue a statement defending the presidents assertions that Alabama was in the path of a hurricane. That lead to the strange unsigned declaration chastising the Birmingham office for having corrected the record after Trump's outburst on twitter.

Also multiple reports the CIA was forced to extract a covert asset from Russia who had ties to the government and knowledge of russian interference in our elections. This was done due to the presidents mishandling of classified information and strange relationship with Putin leading them to believe this person would be compromised. This goes straight to the heart of America's ability to defend itself against the only nation on the planet with a more dangerous nuclear arsenal and a flinty eyed KGB killer as a leader who clearly has Kompromat on Trump.

Also news breaking that the USAF has been diverting planes to a smaller regional airport in scotland that is in financial distress but is the only tourism hub for Trump golf resort Doonesbury. AF landings and refuels 170 in 2017, 250 in 2018, and 250+ already in 2019.US taxpayers are paying more for fuel to keep this airport viable. Pence staying at Trump's resort in Ireland 150 miles from a scheduled meeting in Dublin. The Walrus Barr booking a 30K Christmas party at Trump's DC hotel. There's never been double dealing, graft and corruption on this scale, not even close.

As for russian interference and evidence of crimes such as obstruction its far more damning than John Dean. Its from the president's own mouth on camera, his personal attorney. It's just Americans,even great patriotic ones like yourself and many others, my brother, many of my friends including my brother from another mother either just dont give a Sh!T anymore or have become so numb to what's going on they dont think it amounts to much. It boggles my mind frankly.

Hawktawk wrote:We've never had a situation remotely like this. Just in the last 48 hours news breaks that Commerce Sec Wilbur ross called the acting NOAA secretary and threatened him with his job along with numerous others if he did not issue a statement defending the presidents assertions that Alabama was in the path of a hurricane. That lead to the strange unsigned declaration chastising the Birmingham office for having corrected the record after Trump's outburst on twitter.

Also multiple reports the CIA was forced to extract a covert asset from Russia who had ties to the government and knowledge of russian interference in our elections. This was done due to the presidents mishandling of classified information and strange relationship with Putin leading them to believe this person would be compromised. This goes straight to the heart of America's ability to defend itself against the only nation on the planet with a more dangerous nuclear arsenal and a flinty eyed KGB killer as a leader who clearly has Kompromat on Trump.

Also news breaking that the USAF has been diverting planes to a smaller regional airport in scotland that is in financial distress but is the only tourism hub for Trump golf resort Doonesbury. AF landings and refuels 170 in 2017, 250 in 2018, and 250+ already in 2019.US taxpayers are paying more for fuel to keep this airport viable. Pence staying at Trump's resort in Ireland 150 miles from a scheduled meeting in Dublin. The Walrus Barr booking a 30K Christmas party at Trump's DC hotel. There's never been double dealing, graft and corruption on this scale, not even close.

As for russian interference and evidence of crimes such as obstruction its far more damning than John Dean. Its from the president's own mouth on camera, his personal attorney. It's just Americans,even great patriotic ones like yourself and many others, my brother, many of my friends including my brother from another mother either just dont give a Sh!T anymore or have become so numb to what's going on they dont think it amounts to much. It boggles my mind frankly.

Quite frankly I agree with Tawk and do not feel that this post at least is at all overstated.

Hawktawk wrote:It's just Americans,even great patriotic ones like yourself and many others, my brother, many of my friends including my brother from another mother either just dont give a Sh!T anymore or have become so numb to what's going on they dont think it amounts to much. It boggles my mind frankly.

c_hawkbob wrote:Quite frankly I agree with Tawk and do not feel that this post at least is at all overstated.

So you don't think that sentence is overstated?

I'm not sure who's being referenced to as the "yourself" in that sentence, but if I'm the object of that statement, I don't particularly care to be told by people I've never met what I do and don't give a sh!t about. I don't like that MF anymore than you guys do. I'm just rational enough to recognize that there's nothing that I can do to change it until November of 2020, at least nothing that wouldn't land my arse in jail.

Love watching you guys battle in here. I've been gone but read much of it over the weekend and laughed pretty hard at the TDS that is so rampant in here.

I think Asea has the best and most rational defense for the president on this issue of the hurricane. I'll let you all try and figure that out for a day or two before giving you the answer on why he's defending it.

FYI - Cbob and HawkTalk, the CIA has already came out with a strong statement refuting the claim that an informant was removed because of Trump. They said it was because of the media's focus on trying to find Russian collusion and the leaks that were given them on information that led back to the asset. Not Trump but left over Obama and career officials in the intelligence community.

Hawktawk wrote:It's just Americans,even great patriotic ones like yourself and many others, my brother, many of my friends including my brother from another mother either just dont give a Sh!T anymore or have become so numb to what's going on they dont think it amounts to much. It boggles my mind frankly.

Don't give a crap? I want you to explain to me what exactly I can do? I have no interest in impeachment when we have a stable economy, no war, and the biggest problem is Trump talking. I can deal with an jackass running his mouth. So far Trump has not done anything worse than c-bob accused GW Jr. of doing. Cheney was a far more malevolent vice president. The questionable events of that administration were worse than Trump. For whatever reason you and c-bob consider Trump worse than GW Jr. and Cheney even though the amount of death and carnage during that administration was far worse. I'm not one to freak out over a jackass talking in a rude and narcissistic manner versus say Bush/Cheney starting two questionable wars and lots of corporate corruption with companies like Halliburton and Blackwater. I would say that shows a disconnect by folks like you like and c-bob as to what amounts to very real and bad corruption and bad times for the U.S.

Trump is a narcissistic asshat that at least doesn't seem interested in war, is overseeing a very good economy, and overall hasn't had anything more unusual happen under his administration than previous ones other than running his mouth too much and creating a media frenzy with every stupid thing he says.

So sorry, I don't get caught up in how a guy talks as much as you and c-bob do. I don't like Trump. Best I can do to get him out is not vote for him since I won't vote for these pathetic, no accountability Democrats and their overly PC BS. I don't like how Trump talks, but don't find his policy decisions as problematic as you do. I think Bush/Cheney were more dangerous for the nation than Trump/Pence. Absent an attempt to start a war, I can tolerate Trump/Pence for another year. Let the Dems and Repubs continue the impeachment BS which the Dems won't likely get through the Senate. Then hopefully a Biden win in November 2020 as a band-aid tolerable alternative to people like Sanders and Warren until a better leader can hopefully be found.

You are building Trump up way too large. You are building the problems he is causing way too much because you and I guess c-bob don't want to admit he's not as bad as the press makes him out to be. He's more annoying than doing much real to damage the nation. Which is why so many people are whining like crazy about what he says, but not whining nearly the same about what he actually does in terms of policy. Because he doesn't do much that is terribly awful unless the press spins it up and you ignore the fact that the whole immigrant issues at the border were the same as under Obama or most presidents. The press wasn't pillorying Obama or other presidents on a daily basis is the main difference. Even his wall talk has died down as no one much cares about it.

I'll start getting more up in arms when he does something really dangerous for the nation. Not just wandering around doing stuff that was already something we did like ignoring Saudi Arabia killing people, letting Israel do what they want, and screwing with Venezuela. Like any of this is new to anyone following our politics the last twenty plus years.

To sum it up, Trump is a rude, narcissistic, annoying version of Bill Clinton. If Trump had Clinton's personality, he would win re-election by a landslide if the economy stays on track. But he doesn't, he's a rude jackass that Tweets like a teenage girl and likes to get in fights with anyone that says anything even remotely against him. That may cost him re-election. Even if somehow he wins re-election, he may lose the Senate and even more of the House and end up fighting impeachment his entire second term. If the economy stays on track and we avoid war, then this will be a fairly tolerable eight years other than the rude, annoying, embarrassing, and stupid public dialogue.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I have no interest in impeachment when we have a stable economy, no war, and the biggest problem is Trump talking.

I don't favor impeachment, either, but not because we have peace and prosperity. I don't favor it because there isn't sufficient evidence of a "high crime or misdemeanor" having been committed. We should impeach only if we feel a condition exists as it's defined in the Constitution, not because of a perceived mismanagement of the country. If the Dems want to pursue impeachment, then fine, I'll hear their case. But IMO it's politically unwise for them to do so and might result in another 4 years of that buffoon.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Trump is a narcissistic asshat that at least doesn't seem interested in war, is overseeing a very good economy, and overall hasn't had anything more unusual happen under his administration than previous ones other than running his mouth too much and creating a media frenzy with every stupid thing he says.

Trump basically inherited the good economy, and as we've talked about before, I have some problems with his trade war. But I do agree that he seems to have an aversion to military conflict.

Aseahawkfan wrote:To sum it up, Trump is a rude, narcissistic, annoying version of Bill Clinton. If Trump had Clinton's personality, he would win re-election by a landslide if the economy stays on track. But he doesn't, he's a rude jackass that Tweets like a teenage girl and likes to get in fights with anyone that says anything even remotely against him. That may cost him re-election. Even if somehow he wins re-election, he may lose the Senate and even more of the House and end up fighting impeachment his entire second term. If the economy stays on track and we avoid war, then this will be a fairly tolerable eight years other than the rude, annoying, embarrassing, and stupid public dialogue.

You can toss in a few more adjectives, like racist and idiot. Bill Clinton, for all his faults, is not a racist and is a very intelligent man. Trump is a bigot that walks around with his head up his arse. I also agree that it wouldn't be the end of the world if he's re-elected, but it's such an abhorrent thought that I don't want to consider the consequences.

There's no comparison to a former modern day POTUS that's anywhere near like Trump. Teddy Roosevelt is perhaps the closest one that comes to mind.

The idea that because the economy is decent (not for long?) and no war (yet) is a poor excuse for the ridiculous personal attacks (John Legend? WTF!), reckless hiring and firing of his cabinet, diverting funds for his pet wall project that I challenge anyone to convince me will make one ounce of difference, profiting from having members of his administration and security (not to mention military personnel and foreign leaders) stay at his hotel properties? I could list more items, but who has that much time?

Following that logic, if we enter a recession and/or start a new military engagement, does that mean his cover is suddenly blown? I'm with HawkTalk and Bob all the way. The emperor has no clothes.

edit: his latest lie #454376 is that he announced today that he asked Bolton to resign, when Bolton said it was he who tendered his resignation first, and there is a resignation letter from Tuesday to prove it. Trump wouldn't like that, so of course he has to spin everything in a way that will make him look good. Because looking good is the only thing that matters.

I-5 wrote:The idea that because the economy is decent (not for long?) and no war (yet) is a poor excuse for the ridiculous personal attacks (John Legend? WTF!), reckless hiring and firing of his cabinet, diverting funds for his pet wall project that I challenge anyone to convince me will make one ounce of difference, profiting from having members of his administration and security (not to mention military personnel and foreign leaders) stay at his hotel properties? I could list more items, but who has that much time?

Following that logic, if we enter a recession and/or start a new military engagement, does that mean his cover is suddenly blown? I'm with HawkTalk and Bob all the way. The emperor has no clothes.

edit: his latest lie #454376 is that he announced today that he asked Bolton to resign, when Bolton said it was he who tendered his resignation first, and there is a resignation letter from Tuesday to prove it. Trump wouldn't like that, so of course he has to spin everything in a way that will make him look good. Because looking good is the only thing that matters.

Is anything you listed worse than starting two questionable wars that lead to the deaths of tens of thousands of people? The corruption that was Blackwater and Halliburton contracts in Iraq and Afghanistan after the two questionable wars? Or the general destabilization and additional costs in life and manpower than Bush/Cheney? I doubt it. Yet I did not hear much from hawktawk about all that corruption. And c-bob literally stated he missed Bush/Cheney over Trump even though he loudly proclaimed Bush/Cheney started an illegal war in Iraq and lied to the public in a way that caused the death of thousands. So we're really going to compare that to a guy that is just a narcissistic, bigoted prick? I don't know. I guess I have a different idea of what is worse.

Most of what you listed is business as usual in Washington D.C. I would be surprised if you couldn't find similar crimes all over Congress and D.C. Which I'd bet money is one of the reasons they aren't going to hard at those crimes because it opens a can of worms they don't want opened where taxpayer money is flowing.

I'm surprised that so many want to just get Trump, while the rest of the clowns in D.C. are doing the same things but don't yap as much as Trump so get a pass. It shows the massive hypocrisy of the Trump critics. Just get rid of the idiot that talks too much and is too blatant, but don't bother to change any of the actual issues the rest of them are participating in.

How many years have I been talking about Saudi Arabia? I have literally been bringing up the trash about Saudi Arabia for years. Now Trump is in office and people are offended? That is exactly why it's so hard to listen to so many of the hypocrites angry now. Where were you guys all these years when Saudi Arabia was doing their scumbag stuff while so many other presidents were in office? Where were you when Bush/Cheney were executing take over the Middle East completely operations? Or Clinton was making deals with China that we're having to deal with now with technology theft and the like?

It's real hard for me to take your outrage seriously when it seems to come solely from Trump's overactive mouth and tweeting. How did you not know all this other trash was going on before Trump was in office? Now you're mad? So you're basically saying as long as the man in The White House talks nice, he can be corrupt, overlook awful behavior from ally nations, and basically make deals like the Iran deal Obama made or the China trade deals Bill Clinton made and we're all good? Why?

How long did I have to listen to your tired excuses about a good economy with Bill Clinton? Hey Bill seems to be getting too friendly with China and his lying on the witness stand and is untrustworthy, but hey I like him and we have a good economy. Give me a break. Trump is the billionaire, narcissist Archie Bunker version of Bill Clinton.

And thanks hawktawk, I5, and c-bob for further proving Machiavelli's The Prince is an amazing book on how to govern a nation. Make the people like you and they don't care what you actually do. You wonder why so many smart people know the human race is screwed and also know there is nothing we can do about it. They are easy to fool and manipulate as long you create the illusion of likability and trustworthiness. Trump's biggest issue is he doesn't even try to do that. I'm going to be done with this. It's obvious Trump is hated because he doesn't know how to put on that nice face that keeps the masses from caring about how corrupt you are as a leader or how bad.

RiverDog wrote:Trump basically inherited the good economy, and as we've talked about before, I have some problems with his trade war. But I do agree that he seems to have an aversion to military conflict.

So does every president. And as long as they can keep the party going or get things back online, they stay in office. We know the president doesn't have much to do with the economy, but it usually gets them elected if bad or keeps them in office if good.

You can toss in a few more adjectives, like racist and idiot. Bill Clinton, for all his faults, is not a racist and is a very intelligent man. Trump is a bigot that walks around with his head up his arse. I also agree that it wouldn't be the end of the world if he's re-elected, but it's such an abhorrent thought that I don't want to consider the consequences.

There's no comparison to a former modern day POTUS that's anywhere near like Trump. Teddy Roosevelt is perhaps the closest one that comes to mind.

I forgot bigoted against immigrants, at least immigrants from nations other than Europe or Eastern Europe.

Clinton was much better at being likable and more engaged for certain. I would expect a lawyer to be much more engaged and educated than a billionaire salesman. The clown tried to do a real estate deal while president and buy Greenland because that's his thing. Sheesh.

Oh well, I'm out for a while. I'll come back when they finally pick a Democratic Candidate and the Dems start impeachment attacks to give them candidate an even better chance to win. Notice the intelligent timing of pushing impeachment when they are about to start the real re-election task. We'll see if it backfires. The Dems are making some strong moves that may work to take Trump out. We shall see.
I'll still not see him as the worst president if he can avoid a war. When I do research on Bush/Cheney, they were far slicker and more corrupt in a far more dangerous way than Trump could dream of being. Cheney was The Dark Lord of the Republicans. That guy was a seriously dangerous man and very self-centered. Clinton was also a self-serving corrupt man. Not very good at all. Obama seems like a decent enough man, but in over his head. The Iran deal was terrible.

Because he's a narcissistic clown that can't admit when he's wrong. Always been that way and likely a trait that has gotten worse with age. He's used to being the emperor and no one telling him he has no clothes or they're fired. The man's a control freak and he treats The White House like his company.

You sincerely sound conflicted. Unless there are two of you posting.

I agree GWB did more damage, though....SO FAR. But pulling out of the Paris agreement, pulling out of the Iran deal, trying to bring Russia into G7. You are ok with that? I'm definitely not. You want to normalize this president, but there is no way this is normal. We can go back and forth listing the lies and damages this man is causing and has caused.

What I really hope is that former members of his cabinet who he HAND PICKED get together or individually make statements about what it's really like. I will take Matthis lifelong service at his word more than this what you call 'a narcissistic clown' is going to say.

Aseahawkfan wrote:I forgot bigoted against immigrants, at least immigrants from nations other than Europe or Eastern Europe.

You also forgot about Muslims as Trump asked Giuliani if there was a way he could ban them from coming to the country, which was the root cause of his travel ban he immediately issued after taking office. And you forgot Hispanics, as he condemned a native born judge as having ulterior motives and called him a Mexican simply because he had a Spanish name. Or how about the "shithole countries" remarks? Why wouldn't we accept a bona fide applicant simply because they come from a "shithole country" if not for the fact that the countries being discussed were predominantly black. I could go on and on, but you get my drift. The man has a mean spirited bias against anyone that doesn't look, talk, or share the same birthplace or worship the same deity as he does.

But outside of that, I'm more aligned with your thoughts than I am other posters. This story does have an end to it somewhere, and it's not going to coincide with the end of the world.

I-5 wrote:edit: his latest lie #454376 is that he announced today that he asked Bolton to resign, when Bolton said it was he who tendered his resignation first, and there is a resignation letter from Tuesday to prove it. Trump wouldn't like that, so of course he has to spin everything in a way that will make him look good. Because looking good is the only thing that matters.

Trump pulls this stuff so often that I've become numb to it. All he's doing is enhancing his own ego as it sounds better to himself and to his supporters being the tough guy by firing someone than it does accepting a resignation.

But in the long run, lies like that one don't amount to hill of beans. It's probably good that Bolton is no longer part of the Administration as he was a little too hawkish so I don't really care if he resigned or he was fired. The result is the same.

Trump pulls this stuff so often that I've become numb to it. All he's doing is enhancing his own ego as it sounds better to himself and to his supporters being the tough guy by firing someone than it does accepting a resignation.

But in the long run, lies like that one don't amount to hill of beans. It's probably good that Bolton is no longer part of the Administration as he was a little too hawkish so I don't really care if he resigned or he was fired. The result is the same.

I agree with you on this one, Riv. But how does his pathological lying (which anyone but ID can plainly see as easily the nose on your face) work when it comes to moments of national security crisis? I've never seen anyone squirm around Putin the way he does, then try to spin it as the opposite the next day. I'm glad he isn't a war hawk, but that doesn't mean he won't get us in trouble with his need to satisfy his ego at any cost. I expect it will.

I-5 wrote:I agree with you on this one, Riv. But how does his pathological lying (which anyone but ID can plainly see as easily the nose on your face) work when it comes to moments of national security crisis? I've never seen anyone squirm around Putin the way he does, then try to spin it as the opposite the next day. I'm glad he isn't a war hawk, but that doesn't mean he won't get us in trouble with his need to satisfy his ego at any cost. I expect it will.

I can't answer that question, ie how Trump would react to a genuine national security crisis, nor do I think it could be reasonably answered about any modern day POTUS until the crisis has arrived. I agree with you that Trump has given us every indication that he would put his own ego and reputation before the best interests of our country, but if he did, he wouldn't be the first POTUS to have done so. One of the major reasons that LBJ did not pull out of Vietnam was because he didn't want history to remember him as the only POTUS to have lost a war.

But I will say that if we're doubtful about how Trump will react in a national security crisis, that everything he says is a lie and that you can't trust him, just imagine what our adversaries are thinking. A thin skinned, erratic, thick skulled, and unpredictable POTUS can be a very effective deterrent to aggression or adventurism by one of our foes.

On that I disagree. I can't think of anything more rose-colored than the idea that his unpredictability will make us any safer. I don't think Putin is worried, do you? I think rather that Putin enjoys the weakness he sees in Trump. Do you think it was Trump's own idea to try to bring Russia into the G7?

I-5 wrote:On that I disagree. I can't think of anything more rose-colored than the idea that his unpredictability will make us any safer. I don't think Putin is worried, do you? I think rather that Putin enjoys the weakness he sees in Trump. Do you think it was Trump's own idea to try to bring Russia into the G7?

I don't see the Russians as being as big of a threat as the Chinese. They've illegally built military bases by constructing artificial islands in disputed waters in the middle of the world's biggest maritime trade route, and they're the main ally of North Korea. If a major war breaks out, it's going to be with China, not Russia.

To answer your question about the Russians and G-7, I wouldn't doubt it that Putin is pulling Trump's strings. I see no evidence of that and people like Idahawkman would be quick to jump on me for looking at that situation through my vision of "hating" Trump, but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. He's always treated Russia with kid gloves.

Liberals were petrified when Ronald Reagan was elected due to his tough talk and unpredictability. They were convinced that he was going to get us into a war with the USSR. But guess what. Under his watch, the cold war virtually came to an end. His SDI ("Star Wars") proposal was completely unworkable and unrealistic, but the Russians thought he could do it and offered major concessions in response. Certainly there were a lot of factors that led to the demise of the Soviet Union, but none had more impact than Reagan's presence as the leader of the free world had. They were scared shitless of that dime store cowboy.

Ironically, Reagan treated the USSR completely the opposite of Mr Kid Gloves (pun intended). Trump could not be any more weak if he tried. You are right that China presents a higher threat, but what does Putin have on this guy that makes him such milquetoast around him? We’ve never seen anyone like this.

I-5 wrote:Ironically, Reagan treated the USSR completely the opposite of Mr Kid Gloves (pun intended). Trump could not be any more weak if he tried. You are right that China presents a higher threat, but what does Putin have on this guy that makes him such milquetoast around him? We’ve never seen anyone like this.

Yea, no kidding. Reagan never even said he trusted Gorbachev, only that he hadn't given him a reason not to trust him.

We probably won't find out until years or even decades after Trump leaves office exactly what Putin has on Trump that makes him act as if he's wrapped around his little finger. But Trump very noticeably acts much different regarding Putin than he does any other international leader, treats him with more respect than he treats our allies. He trashes every other leader and/or country except Russia. No wonder they wanted him in the White House vs. HRC.

We probably won't find out until years or even decades after Trump leaves office exactly what Putin has on Trump that makes him act as if he's wrapped around his little finger. But Trump very noticeably acts much different regarding Putin than he does any other international leader, treats him with more respect than he treats our allies. He trashes every other leader and/or country except Russia. No wonder they wanted him in the White House vs. HRC.

Yup, and Kim Jong Un, too. Perfect.

But hey no biggie. Economy’s good and we’re not at war. So it doesn’t matter if we have a treasonous mentally ill criminal in the White House .

ASF, here comes the narcissistic clown, except now he's selling us he's got the goods on Iran. Are you buying anything he says if you're congress, or do you need more than his word? You trust his mental state and that he'll do the right thing based on his military advisors right? He just created a crisis with his words 'locked and loaded' and zero proof.

The Stable Genius has put the country into a tough corner, with his tough 'locked and loaded' talk, while saying he doesn't want a war with anyone. Pompeo didn't help by pointing the finger to Iran without any backing statement. I guess we'll now see what a narcissist in the White House does in a crisis.

I-5 wrote:The Stable Genius has put the country into a tough corner, with his tough 'locked and loaded' talk, while saying he doesn't want a war with anyone. Pompeo didn't help by pointing the finger to Iran without any backing statement. I guess we'll now see what a narcissist in the White House does in a crisis.

True this^^^^^if chickenhawk didn’t want war with Iran he shouldn’t have pulled out of the nuclear agreement every one of our allies and a few enemies like Russia (except to Moscow ritz Carlson porn star trump) supported. Now they are predictably pissed and striking back and his gutless wimp personality is laid bare. Even after the downing of a tenth of a billion dollar drone he showed weakness and indecision, putting planes in the air and then calling it off. The danger of a mentally ill hopelessly conflicted commander in Chief cannot he overstated . He’s been lucky and also willing to rob Peter (our grandkids) to pay Paul and keep the economy propped up but he’s been extremely lucky as have we all there has not been a conflict with him in office .