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This is frigging stupid. Two governmental agencies, the Federal Communications Commission, or FCC, and the Federal Aviation Administration, or FAA, are at odds over the rollout of the next generation of mobile networking, a.k.a. 5G. The issue is that the FAA, plus airlines and manufacturers like Boeing, feel that there is a possibility that the 5G electronic transmissions in a bandwidth so close to the one that many aircraft's altimeters will interfere with the pilots ability to determine how close to the ground they are in low visibility conditions.

The FCC walked out of discussions with the FAA and basically told them to go get screwed. The FAA isn't backing down and has begun canceling flights out of a concern for safety.

So where in the hell is Joe Biden? Isn't he the ultimate boss of all government agencies? IMO he should error on the side of safety and tell the FCC that they don't allow any 5G transmissions within a country mile of any airport unless they get the FAA to sign off on it.

They've had years to figure this out, I can't imagine how it got to this point. It's not a problem in the rest of the world that has 5G and airports. I don't know which is which but I bet the head of one agency is a Dem and the other a Repub.

c_hawkbob wrote:They've had years to figure this out, I can't imagine how it got to this point. It's not a problem in the rest of the world that has 5G and airports. I don't know which is which but I bet the head of one agency is a Dem and the other a Repub.

Here's an article that discusses some of the differences between the US and the rest of the world, along with a very good discussion that explains the problem:

That doesn’t stop the fact that these planes (with suspect radar altimeters) are still flying, and it is possible one of their altimeters could fail due to a 5G tower. Well, that actually gets debated. Those on the aviation side published a study showing how it’s possible. Those on the cell company side say those studies are flawed and show only extreme situations that are very unlikely to happen. Indeed, in a large number of countries, the 5G has been turned on without reported problems, though in some cases they have larger guard bands or other different regulations. The airlines argue the USA is different in that way and a greater risk.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtemple ... 6bcb5c3d67

They've already canceled a few flights, and we lucked out this week as we've had relatively clear weather across much of the nation, so the disruption has been rather mild. But the question I have is why hasn't the Biden Administration stepped in and settled this debate?

Because unless you're Trump putting a sycophant in charge of destroying the US Postal Service to suppress the mail in vote a President doesn't typically micromanage individual agencies. I do agree it's time to take an active hand in this situation though, and then get new department heads.

c_hawkbob wrote:Because unless you're Trump putting a sycophant in charge of destroying the US Postal Service to suppress the mail in vote a President doesn't typically micromanage individual agencies. I do agree it's time to take an active hand in this situation though, and then get new department heads.

Not true. Presidents issue directives to individual agencies all the time. For example, just a few months ago, Biden directed OSHA to institute vaccine mandates to employers with 100+ employees, and prior to the orange buffoon, Obama issued an "Open Government" directive to OMB and ordered the CIA to shut down Guantanamo Bay. And who can forget when President Ronald Reagan ordered the FAA to fire striking air traffic controllers.

This situation is at least as compelling as any of those as it's putting lives at risk and/or disrupting our transportation system. I don't call that micromanaging. Sleepy Joe is asleep at the wheel.

I heard about this issue, but did not read much on it. I'm going to give this article a read. I've been thinking about picking up some T-mobile stock. They seem like the best player in the cellular provider service. Low cost, high quality service with perks. 5G is the next big thing in smart phones.

Interesting read. Seems a mostly non-issue, but even one serious airline accident is not worth the risk.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Interesting read. Seems a mostly non-issue, but even one serious airline accident is not worth the risk.

The FAA is still smarting over the 737 Max issue, so I don't blame them a bit for being overly cautious. I don't know a lot about the subject, but I do know that when in doubt, you ALWAYS error on the side of safety.

Besides, I don't see what the big rush is to get 5G implemented. Why can't they wait a few months?

RiverDog wrote:The FAA is still smarting over the 737 Max issue, so I don't blame them a bit for being overly cautious. I don't know a lot about the subject, but I do know that when in doubt, you ALWAYS error on the side of safety.

Besides, I don't see what the big rush is to get 5G implemented. Why can't they wait a few months?

From what I read, this has been going on for years. FAA knew they had to upgrade the radars affected. FCC sold the bandwidth for billions. Sounds like FCC may be on the hook for billions if these companies cannot roll out their 5G.

RiverDog wrote:The FAA is still smarting over the 737 Max issue, so I don't blame them a bit for being overly cautious. I don't know a lot about the subject, but I do know that when in doubt, you ALWAYS error on the side of safety.

Besides, I don't see what the big rush is to get 5G implemented. Why can't they wait a few months?

Aseahawkfan wrote:From what I read, this has been going on for years. FAA knew they had to upgrade the radars affected. FCC sold the bandwidth for billions. Sounds like FCC may be on the hook for billions if these companies cannot roll out their 5G.

So what are the telecommunications company's options if the FCC delays the roll-out by a few months? You can't sue the federal government, so they would have no choice but to do what they're told. As a matter of fact, some companies have already voluntarily delayed the roll out, so there's no reason why Biden couldn't order the FCC to delay the rollout. Besides, we're not talking about delaying it nation wide, just at those towers that are close to a few airports. So what if you have a few dead spots near Sea-Tac? Your cell phone will still work, just not on the new 5G. Delaying it to April or May would not only buy some time, but you're also going to have fewer low visibility problems in the spring vs. late January.

It's not easy to upgrade the suspect radars. Most of the problems are in older model, regional planes like Alaska's Q400, the turbo prop planes that serve my local airport. That's a huge fleet, and airlines are already reeling financially from the pandemic, and now you're going to tell them to upgrade those planes in order to accommodate a multi billion dollar telecommunications industry?

I wonder if it would be cheaper for the FCC to pay for the upgrades on the older planes? Or at least subsidize the upgrades.

NorthHawk wrote:I wonder if it would be cheaper for the FCC to pay for the upgrades on the older planes? Or at least subsidize the upgrades.

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There are tens of thousands of radars that are suspect to 5G interference. I don't know how much it would cost to replace each one, but I don't feel comfortable with making the taxpayer finance 5G through a subsidy to a for profit business entity like the telecommunications industry.

We also don't know how long it would take to complete such an upgrade or if it's practical for older aircraft, if it isn't throwing good money after bad on an aircraft scheduled for retirement in a few years anyway.

The FCC has also maintained that there is no evidence the interference is an issue. That’s in direct disagreement with the findings of a study by the Radio Technical Committee for Aeronautics (RTCA), which first flagged the issue more than a year ago. It said there are tens of thousands of older radar altimeters at risk of interference from 5G.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/faa ... -5g-delay/