Biden stepping out of race

[Stream Hawk]

Just dropped. Here’s his letter https://x.com/keitholbermann/status/181 ... pMkhpLC7ng

[River Dog]

Yep, just saw that. I had a feeling that if he were going to drop out, that he'd do it on a Sunday.

He's endorsing Kamala Harris for the Dem nominee.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e ... rcna160256

[Stream Hawk]

Yep, you called it! I was hoping this would happen today. Unprecedented in my lifetime.

[Aseahawkfan]

Just as expected, it had to be Kamala that replaced him. Now let's see who she picks as VP or if the Dems try to push her out.

[River Dog]

Yep, you called it! I was hoping this would happen today. Unprecedented in my lifetime.

I can remember when Gerald Ford announced his pardon of Richard Nixon back in 1974. He did it on a Sunday as it was a slow news day, let everyone digest it first before the jackals descended on him and started putting their spin on it. That's what I was thinking of when I made my WAG.

It's not quite a slam dunk that Harris will get the nomination, but close. House Majority Leader Mike Johnson suggested that some states may sue if their delegation doesn't vote for Biden. There's been a precedent, in June of 1968 when Bobby Kennedy was assassinated after all the primaries had been held, but this is a little different. It will be interesting.

I don't know if Harris can beat Trump, but it was a foregone conclusion that Biden wasn't going to. Although she has more name recognition than any of the other potential Dem nominees, the country still doesn't know a lot about her, so she has an opportunity to cut out a name for herself. I wouldn't advise her to make her campaign all about how wicked and evil Donald Trump is, which was the mistake Hillary made, rather tell us where she stands in contrast to him. About the only thing we know is that she's very much pro-choice, but beyond that, she hasn't taken many stands.

If I'm Harris, I'd wait until the convention to select a VP. She needs the spotlight all to herself in order to introduce herself first. It also has the effect of stringing out the headlines. I doubt if she takes Whitmer as the country simply isn't ready for an all female ticket, and I hope like hell she doesn't take Newsom as the way CA is, he'd be a huge liability. The Gov of PA might be an option, but I'd rather see her get some 40 something up and coming Congressman from a purple state.

The R's are already attacking her about the southern border, who Biden had assigned to her as a problem to solve.

[Stream Hawk]

Those are excellent points, Riv. It probably will be wise to wait until the convention for the VP pick. My vote is for Mark Kelly.

[River Dog]

Those are excellent points, Riv. It probably will be wise to wait until the convention for the VP pick. My vote is for Mark Kelly.

Kelly wouldn't be a bad pick as he's former military and a former astronaut, plus his wife, like Trump, was the victim of an assassination attempt. But he's 60 years old. I was thinking if she could find a millennial to sort of counter Trump's VP pick.

Josh Shapiro, Gov. of PA and 51 years old, won his election by 14%, and Harris has to win PA if she has any hope of beating Trump.

In any event, she's got a lot of time before she has to make a choice. The Dem convention isn't until Aug. 19-22. Given the circumstances, it might look bad if she were to announce a selection before she was formally nominated.

[Aseahawkfan]

This will be the most interesting election of my lifetime. Not sure where RD will see it as he has seen a few more presidential elections than I have.

This is straight wild. It's interesting to watch given I've seen the first black president, first female vice president, and the crazy Trump Era.

Rise of the computer age, internet, and now AI.

I might see self-driving cars and robots.

A once in a hundred year pandemic.

Crazy special effects in movies.

I've seen so much history and new stuff I can't even remember it all. It's amazing to see so much in one life.

I've seen them put a rover on Mars. I'd love to see the first person on Mars too.

So much amazing stuff to see. At this age it always makes think of Roy's monologue in Blade Runner. You always want more life to see even more.

It's an interesting world.

Let's see who the Dems pick and go to war. See if the Dems can overcome Trump's great luck. Even in 2016 Comey's last minute revelation seemed to help Trump beat Hilary. Now this assassination attempt seems to have given Trump new life and given him sympathy at the right time.

Let's see how the Dems counter. Most active political warfare between parties I've seen in my lifetime.

[Aseahawkfan]

Kelly wouldn't be a bad pick as he's former military and a former astronaut, plus his wife, like Trump, was the victim of an assassination attempt. But he's 60 years old. I was thinking if she could find a millennial to sort of counter Trump's VP pick.

Josh Shapiro, Gov. of PA and 51 years old, won his election by 14%, and Harris has to win PA if she has any hope of beating Trump.

In any event, she's got a lot of time before she has to make a choice. The Dem convention isn't until Aug. 19-22. Given the circumstances, it might look bad if she were to announce a selection before she was formally nominated.

Shapiro might be good as VP. No one cares about the VPs religion near as I can tell. Just like when Biden took Harris to satisfy certain voting blocs in the Dem Party. Harris could pick Shapiro to do the same and win PA, which will likely be a battleground state.

[River Dog]

This will be the most interesting election of my lifetime. Not sure where RD will see it as he has seen a few more presidential elections than I have.

This is straight wild. It's interesting to watch given I've seen the first black president, first female vice president, and the crazy Trump Era.

Rise of the computer age, internet, and now AI.

I might see self-driving cars and robots.

A once in a hundred year pandemic.

Crazy special effects in movies.

I've seen so much history and new stuff I can't even remember it all. It's amazing to see so much in one life.

I've seen them put a rover on Mars. I'd love to see the first person on Mars too.

So much amazing stuff to see. At this age it always makes think of Roy's monologue in Blade Runner. You always want more life to see even more.

It's an interesting world.

Let's see who the Dems pick and go to war. See if the Dems can overcome Trump's great luck. Even in 2016 Comey's last minute revelation seemed to help Trump beat Hilary. Now this assassination attempt seems to have given Trump new life and given him sympathy at the right time.

Let's see how the Dems counter. Most active political warfare between parties I've seen in my lifetime.

Obviously, the Bush-Gore contest in 2000 was by far the most interesting election as it wasn't decided for weeks later. It also had the funniest memes as one that I can recall showed the shape of Florida with the caption "election dysfunction" next to the very similar shape of a limp penis with the caption "erection dysfunction."

But yes, I agree, this one has the potential of being the most interesting election in modern times.

[Aseahawkfan]

Obviously, the Bush-Gore contest in 2000 was by far the most interesting election as it wasn't decided for weeks later. It also had the funniest memes as one that I can recall showed the shape of Florida with the caption "election dysfunction" next to the very similar shape of a limp penis with the caption "erection dysfunction."

But yes, I agree, this one has the potential of being the most interesting election in modern times.

That one did not interest me very much. That was the one where the Democrats pulled a Trump claiming a stolen election and dragging out the election for weeks when Gore had lost. I remember clearly C-bob crying about the election being stolen and the other Democrats on the old PI board pretty much setting up what Trump did in 2020 save as with all things Trump he took it even farther. Whereas the Democrat's just kept forcing things in the court and Bush Jr. being more patient and less volatile than Trump because he actually cares about America simply obliged them until they conceded. That's why I even look back on Bush Jr. and miss that level of professionalism in a presidential candidate.

I at least give the Democrats credit for not starting a riot. Gore wasn't likely capable of inciting such a riot as he was super boring as a candidate, but at least he didn't even try as the Democrats claimed a stolen election with the hanging chads rubbish.

Like I tell my Republican friends, going to be cheating every election somewhere. No elections are pure as the driven snow. It don't matter. it's not what decides an election in America and rioting or trying to start some war over it is complete BS. That's where Trump went too far.

Now the Republican Trumpers are using the same BS claims as the Democrats in the 2000 election insisting they have evidence of cheating and the election was stolen with all this BS evidence that doesn't amount to a stolen election, just the usual problems in an election this large. That's why Trump feels more like a Democrat to me in his actions and his policies. Always whining when he loses like the Democrats when they lose and looking for cheating and making accusations. The Republican media seems to have followed his pathetic lead.

I miss the days when Republicans at least tried to appear respectable and professional.

[River Dog]

Obviously, the Bush-Gore contest in 2000 was by far the most interesting election as it wasn't decided for weeks later. It also had the funniest memes as one that I can recall showed the shape of Florida with the caption "election dysfunction" next to the very similar shape of a limp penis with the caption "erection dysfunction."

But yes, I agree, this one has the potential of being the most interesting election in modern times.

That one did not interest me very much. That was the one where the Democrats pulled a Trump claiming a stolen election and dragging out the election for weeks when Gore had lost. I remember clearly C-bob crying about the election being stolen and the other Democrats on the old PI board pretty much setting up what Trump did in 2020 save as with all things Trump he took it even farther. Whereas the Democrat's just kept forcing things in the court and Bush Jr. being more patient and less volatile than Trump because he actually cares about America simply obliged them until they conceded. That's why I even look back on Bush Jr. and miss that level of professionalism in a presidential candidate.

I at least give the Democrats credit for not starting a riot. Gore wasn't likely capable of inciting such a riot as he was super boring as a candidate, but at least he didn't even try as the Democrats claimed a stolen election with the hanging chads rubbish.

Like I tell my Republican friends, going to be cheating every election somewhere. No elections are pure as the driven snow. It don't matter. it's not what decides an election in America and rioting or trying to start some war over it is complete BS. That's where Trump went too far.

Now the Republican Trumpers are using the same BS claims as the Democrats in the 2000 election insisting they have evidence of cheating and the election was stolen with all this BS evidence that doesn't amount to a stolen election, just the usual problems in an election this large. That's why Trump feels more like a Democrat to me in his actions and his policies. Always whining when he loses like the Democrats when they lose and looking for cheating and making accusations. The Republican media seems to have followed his pathetic lead.

I miss the days when Republicans at least tried to appear respectable and professional.

The 2000 election was very interesting to me. For one, I was gung-ho for Bush 43, at least at that particular time, and secondly, it was a lesson in law in that the Florida election law was clearly unconstitutional as it allowed for votes to be treated differently when Gore started cherry picking heavily Democratic precents to re-count as the odds were that they'd find more D votes than R. If you're going to do a recount, recount the entire state, not just those parts of the state that are most likely to give you a favorable result.

And there was other stuff, like the infamous butterfly ballots, the hanging chads, and so forth. I remember one joke being that seniors could manage 6 bingo cards but that they couldn't figure out who they were voting for on a ballot. Plus, the dirty little secret was that the press did their own recount via the freedom of information act 3 months after the election, and Bush one that one by three times the margin in the official count. Out of all of the recounts, Gore never won a single one of them.

If you're ever interested in how politics used to be back during the good ole boy days of the 60's, PBS did an excellent documentary about LBJ. It was vastly different than the type of politics we see nowadays.

[River Dog]

There's a good opinion piece in the WSJ that captures one of the biggest reasons why I am so anti Trump:

The 2024 election is Donald Trump’s to lose, and he may yet manage it. That was our reaction to his splenetic outburst on Sunday after President Biden’s withdrawal from the presidential race.

It should have been an opportunity to show some class and judgment by welcoming the decision, warning U.S. adversaries not to take advantage of Mr. Biden’s last few months in office, and saying Vice President Kamala Harris will have to defend Mr. Biden’s failed record. Short and presidential, with a unifying tone.

Not Donald Trump. On Truth Social on Sunday after the announcement, the former President posted this: “Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve - And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn’t capable of being President, and he wasn’t - And now, look what he’s done to our Country . . .” And on down from there.

We realize Mr. Trump is frustrated that he won’t be able to run against Mr. Biden. But he remains the favorite and has a strong case to make against the Biden-Harris record. The GOP convention was a political success, despite his self-indulgent Thursday speech.

The biggest doubt voters have about Mr. Trump is that he’s a divisive, vindictive man who is unable to speak for all Americans. He had a chance on Sunday to show he is capable of more, but he didn’t rise to the occasion.

Or, as an old wise man once told me: "There's a time to be an a$$hole and there's a time not to be an a$$hole." On a day in which nearly everyone is treating Biden's decision almost as if he had passed away, it was definitely the latter.

[Aseahawkfan]

There's a good opinion piece in the WSJ that captures one of the biggest reasons why I am so anti Trump:

The 2024 election is Donald Trump’s to lose, and he may yet manage it. That was our reaction to his splenetic outburst on Sunday after President Biden’s withdrawal from the presidential race.

It should have been an opportunity to show some class and judgment by welcoming the decision, warning U.S. adversaries not to take advantage of Mr. Biden’s last few months in office, and saying Vice President Kamala Harris will have to defend Mr. Biden’s failed record. Short and presidential, with a unifying tone.

Not Donald Trump. On Truth Social on Sunday after the announcement, the former President posted this: “Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve - And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn’t capable of being President, and he wasn’t - And now, look what he’s done to our Country . . .” And on down from there.

We realize Mr. Trump is frustrated that he won’t be able to run against Mr. Biden. But he remains the favorite and has a strong case to make against the Biden-Harris record. The GOP convention was a political success, despite his self-indulgent Thursday speech.

The biggest doubt voters have about Mr. Trump is that he’s a divisive, vindictive man who is unable to speak for all Americans. He had a chance on Sunday to show he is capable of more, but he didn’t rise to the occasion.

Or, as an old wise man once told me: "There's a time to be an a$$hole and there's a time not to be an a$$hole." On a day in which nearly everyone is treating Biden's decision almost as if he had passed away, it was definitely the latter.

What was that saynig? Trump was born an asshole and just grew bigger.

I know the Dems will never admit it, but if they weren't pushing so much crazy with the environmentalism, alphabet sexuailty they are constanting adding letters to, and use race as an excuse to ignore crime, they might be able to get something done. But their followers have no interest in fixing their party, just supporting the crazy. Same as the Republicans and their mindless support of Trump.

Just get these next four years over with, so I can see if someone sane comes after this. If it's just more insane, that's going to be rough. Time to prep to retire and buy a piece of property somewhere mildly tolerable and move away from as much as I can of the stupid.

As I get older, I'm just becoming more and more intolerant of stupidity and slowness. Even the slow, stupid decision making of drivers is starting to really get to me much less this political environment full of idiots who mindlessly follow their parties without regard for whether their parties are pushing good policies for the country. Just both sides calling each other names and pretending they're the smarter side.

You are lucky you are retired RD. This country seems the most stupid I have seen it in my lifetime.

[Aseahawkfan]

The 2000 election was very interesting to me. For one, I was gung-ho for Bush 43, at least at that particular time, and secondly, it was a lesson in law in that the Florida election law was clearly unconstitutional as it allowed for votes to be treated differently when Gore started cherry picking heavily Democratic precents to re-count as the odds were that they'd find more D votes than R. If you're going to do a recount, recount the entire state, not just those parts of the state that are most likely to give you a favorable result.

And there was other stuff, like the infamous butterfly ballots, the hanging chads, and so forth. I remember one joke being that seniors could manage 6 bingo cards but that they couldn't figure out who they were voting for on a ballot. Plus, the dirty little secret was that the press did their own recount via the freedom of information act 3 months after the election, and Bush one that one by three times the margin in the official count. Out of all of the recounts, Gore never won a single one of them.

If you're ever interested in how politics used to be back during the good ole boy days of the 60's, PBS did an excellent documentary about LBJ. It was vastly different than the type of politics we see nowadays.

Bush 43 is when I grew weary of politics. I supported him in the first election. The second one after 9/11 and then the move into Iraq and all that followed that and the Swift Boat Veterans attacking Kerry in the second election, a man that served in combat during Vietnam while Bush Jr. avoided it, just all made me sick.

It's when I really delved into these two parties and saw so much pathetic hypocrisy like the Democrats voting for the war in Iraq, then voting against funding it while our troops were over there as sudden resistance to war. You don't vote for a war, then underfund your troops to protest. Then the Yellow Cake BS and The Cheney Doctrine where he created a legal doctrine where even if a terrorist state has a 1 percent chance of a terrorist attack, then the president an authorize use of force against them which we only used on weak nations that were no real threat to us. That was another period of education on what these two parties have done to this country and the reality that neither one is very good for us.

It was hard to vote for me after that as it all just felt like voting for the same thing with mild variations. Like both parties were just playing some role and the key issues were divided up between parties for them to pretend they were different while their policies all ended up benefitting the wealthy class while we were just workers treated like herd animals generating tax revenues and labor that that the top 1 percent decided what was the best way to manage the herd for their benefit.

I don't know. Reading the history books, seems that's always been the case. Certain powerful humans drive the herd, benefit the most, then only do enough for the herd to keep them from stampeding and ruining the herd leader's assets.

That second Bush Jr. election left me very jaded about American politics. Now 20 years later it looks like much the same.

[River Dog]

There's a good opinion piece in the WSJ that captures one of the biggest reasons why I am so anti Trump:

The 2024 election is Donald Trump’s to lose, and he may yet manage it. That was our reaction to his splenetic outburst on Sunday after President Biden’s withdrawal from the presidential race.

It should have been an opportunity to show some class and judgment by welcoming the decision, warning U.S. adversaries not to take advantage of Mr. Biden’s last few months in office, and saying Vice President Kamala Harris will have to defend Mr. Biden’s failed record. Short and presidential, with a unifying tone.

Not Donald Trump. On Truth Social on Sunday after the announcement, the former President posted this: “Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve - And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn’t capable of being President, and he wasn’t - And now, look what he’s done to our Country . . .” And on down from there.

We realize Mr. Trump is frustrated that he won’t be able to run against Mr. Biden. But he remains the favorite and has a strong case to make against the Biden-Harris record. The GOP convention was a political success, despite his self-indulgent Thursday speech.

The biggest doubt voters have about Mr. Trump is that he’s a divisive, vindictive man who is unable to speak for all Americans. He had a chance on Sunday to show he is capable of more, but he didn’t rise to the occasion.

Or, as an old wise man once told me: "There's a time to be an a$$hole and there's a time not to be an a$$hole." On a day in which nearly everyone is treating Biden's decision almost as if he had passed away, it was definitely the latter.

What was that saynig? Trump was born an asshole and just grew bigger.

I realize that. The reason I posted the piece was because it describes exactly why I oppose Trump, or at least one of the major reasons.

I know the Dems will never admit it, but if they weren't pushing so much crazy with the environmentalism, alphabet sexuailty they are constanting adding letters to, and use race as an excuse to ignore crime, they might be able to get something done. But their followers have no interest in fixing their party, just supporting the crazy. Same as the Republicans and their mindless support of Trump.

Yeah, that's definitely part of the dynamic, why there's such a split, and why someone like Trump can resonate with so many. One needs to look no further than my own backyard. We have a Dem governor who completely ignores the vast majority of locals in my area, dismisses their concerns as "a common sight around the state." People out here feel as if they do not have a voice.

Just get these next four years over with, so I can see if someone sane comes after this. If it's just more insane, that's going to be rough. Time to prep to retire and buy a piece of property somewhere mildly tolerable and move away from as much as I can of the stupid.

As I get older, I'm just becoming more and more intolerant of stupidity and slowness. Even the slow, stupid decision making of drivers is starting to really get to me much less this political environment full of idiots who mindlessly follow their parties without regard for whether their parties are pushing good policies for the country. Just both sides calling each other names and pretending they're the smarter side.

You are lucky you are retired RD. This country seems the most stupid I have seen it in my lifetime.

I blame social media for a lot of this mess. There used to be a filter on some of this crazy, stupid s***. It was censorship and it definitely had a political bias, but it also had the effect of screening out all of this fake news, conspiracy theories, etc. People who had those types of views used to die on the vine as they had no one to hang with. But social media has brought them together, make them feel more normal.

We'll see what happens once Trump is finally gone. I thought that would occur in 2020 when he lost the election, but he stayed in the news, thanks in part to Dems pursuing him, and like a bad dream, he's back again.

[Aseahawkfan]

Social media, the place where sanity and intelligence go to die.

[River Dog]

Social media, the place where sanity and intelligence go to die.

Well, that's the downside, to be sure. But it's helped me re-connect with friends that I haven't seen for over 50 years.

But the real problem is the stupidity of today's adults. There are too many that simply don't know how to process information, seperate the wheat from the chaff. I keep going back to it, but I can vividly recall seeing a survey done by National Geographic that showed that 29% of American adults couldn't find the Pacific Ocean on a map. If that survey is anywhere close to being accurate, then it's no wonder how we've managed to get ourselves in this predicament.

[curmudgeon]

But the real problem is the stupidity of today's adults.

Bingo!!

[River Dog]

IMO Harris is playing it right so far, saying all the right things, giving plenty of kudos to Joe Biden as are most of the Dems. No matter who the nominee is, they're going to have to run on his record, so they need to make him look like the GOAT. Harris said that she wants to earn this nomination. Talking about potential running mates at this time would be extremely presumptuous on her part, make her look like she thinks she's entitled to the nomination. Obama has held off endorsing a candidate, prefers an open convention with all delegates freed to vote for any candidate. I don't know enough about the various rules and/or laws governing who the delegates can vote for to know if that's even possible.

Ironically, the last time this happened was in 1968 when the leading Dem candidate, Bobby Kennedy, was assassinated after the primaries had been held. The Democratic convention was held in Chicago that year and was marred by some huge antiwar protests and the Chicago PD came under heavy criticism over their reaction to it. I can remember Walter Cronkite grilling Mayor Richard Daley and my dad getting extremely pissed at Cronkite. We never watched CBS news after that interview.

Like 1968, these times have been extremely turbulent to say the least.

Edit: NBC is reporting that Harris has enough committed delegates to secure the nomination. But I'd still hold off making a VP selection and let this current news cycle run its course, milk it for all its worth, and wait until a day or two before the convention to announce her pick. She needs to let people get to know her first, get as many positive stories as possible about her out in the limelight.

[c_hawkbob]

Nonsense, she needs to establish her ticket as soon as practical now that she's the presumptive nominee. Andy Beshear would be my choice (of course).

[Stream Hawk]

Beshear would be great. Although national name recognition might be a problem. I also noticed he’s not one of the first candidates to be on the vetting list. I saw a story today that Shapiro and Kelly are the front runners but who knows at this point

[River Dog]

Nonsense, she needs to establish her ticket as soon as practical now that she's the presumptive nominee. Andy Beshear would be my choice (of course).

Why? What's the rush?

The campaign doesn't get into full swing until after Labor Day, so it is completely unnecessary to have a running mate in late July when they haven't even decided how they're going to conduct the convention let alone make a formal nomination. Harris herself said that she wants to 'earn' the nomination, not just get it by default, and naming a running mate now will give the impression that she views herself as entitled to it. There's lots of examples of nominees not naming a running mate until the convention, including some where the delegates selected a VP nominee.

By all accounts, this is going to be another close election. It's not going to be won in July. Harris needs to keep her powder dry, use the time between now and the convention to thoroughly vet the possible candidates, let their names get run up and down the flagpole, sleep on it for a few nights. The last thing she wants to do is make a mistake like George McGovern did when he selected Thomas Eagleton as his running mate. You're old enough to remember that fiasco, are you not?

Although I would have preferred that Biden made his decision to step down many months ago, the timing isn't all that bad. It's pushed Trump out of the headlines of the past couple of weeks, first in the assassination attempt and second by what by all accounts was a successful R convention and denied him from riding the wave out until the Dems hold their convention in late August.

[River Dog]

Beshear would be great. Although national name recognition might be a problem. I also noticed he’s not one of the first candidates to be on the vetting list. I saw a story today that Shapiro and Kelly are the front runners but who knows at this point

I like what little I've seen about Beshear. He is about the right age, in his 40's, and would fit one of the needs of the Dems by finding that younger face that has been too often defined as these far left moonbats like AOC and The Squad, and as one of the few Dem moderates, he'd be a good counterbalance to the liberal Harris, show voters that unlike Trump's motivation for picking his running mate, that she's looking for someone that will do something other than blow smoke up her arse and tell her how great she is. If she wasn't worried about having to win an election, he'd be a great choice to help her govern.

But the downside is that he doesn't bring any electoral votes with him. Kentucky is a red state and has just 8 electoral votes. Harris isn't going to win this election unless she can take big purple states like PA and MI. Trump has consistently been doing much better in PA than either Biden or Harris, the latest one showing him up 7 points over Harris. I'm sticking with Shapiro, at least on paper. I still don't know very much about either one of them.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Rep. Andy Ogles, R-TN, has filed articles of impeachment against Kamala Harris over immigration enforcement and misleading the public about Joe Biden's condition. I don't think this gets anywhere, but this is what we have now. Tit for tat politics.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... la-harris/

[River Dog]

Rep. Andy Ogles, R-TN, has filed articles of impeachment against Kamala Harris over immigration enforcement and misleading the public about Joe Biden's condition. I don't think this gets anywhere, but this is what we have now. Tit for tat politics.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news ... la-harris/

It's been like that for some time now. It's to the point where it doesn't qualify as news. Despite the fact that impeachment has achieved extremely scant results, there's been hundreds of times where some Congressman has used the process to garner attention.

[Aseahawkfan]

I already knew when the Democrats starting using the legal system for political warfare, the Republicans would respond in kind. Then again the Republicans started it with Bill Clinton way back in the 90s when they "weaponized" the legal system against Bill Clinton, so they started it. The Democrats decided Trump was the Bill Clinton of Republicans and went after him. Now it's going to be back and forth, especially if the Republicans take Congress and Dems take the presidency. And vice versa if the reverse happens. When Republicans were using the legal system to go after Clinton, no talk by hypocritical Republicans about "weaponizing" the legal system, but they sure talk about it now even while they are now doing it. Total hypocrites.

Tons of taxpayer dollars wasted on investigations and abuse of the legal system for nearly nothing to show for it but a conviction for hush money to pornstars and nude models and an assassination attempt Trump turned to gold.

I even read they are trying to use the legal system to file suit to keep Biden on the ballot to deny people the opportunity to vote for their chosen candidate which is in essence trying to steal and manipulate the election like they admonish Democrats for doing. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/republicans-legal-challenges-keep-biden-on-ballot/

I am so tired of these parties and their dishonest, pathetic games and dishonorable and unprofessional politics, abuse of the legal system, and putting Americans in this divisive, get nothing done position that is not helping anyone.

[Aseahawkfan]

RD,

I don't follow these people enough, so maybe you know: is Harris as far left as conservatives think she is?

My buddy is telling me is full Green New Deal, ban firearms like Australia, defund the police, pro-reparations, limit red meat, and completely onboard with almost every far left agenda talking point. How far left is Kamala?

[River Dog]

RD,

I don't follow these people enough, so maybe you know: is Harris as far left as conservatives think she is?

My buddy is telling me is full Green New Deal, ban firearms like Australia, defund the police, pro-reparations, limit red meat, and completely onboard with almost every far left agenda talking point. How far left is Kamala?

She's pretty liberal, but her stance on a number of subjects has changed multiple times over her career, so I'm not sure how relevant her past positions are. I'm not too concerned about it as so long as the R's control at least one house of Congress, she won't be able to implement much of her agenda anyway.

The biggest priority in my view is defeating Donald Trump, and Harris is the best, perhaps the only person who can pull it off. I'm willing to take my chances on Harris, that she won't make any huge, irreversible progressive changes.

[Aseahawkfan]

She's pretty liberal, but her stance on a number of subjects has changed multiple times over her career, so I'm not sure how relevant her past positions are. I'm not too concerned about it as so long as the R's control at least one house of Congress, she won't be able to implement much of her agenda anyway.

The biggest priority in my view is defeating Donald Trump, and Harris is the best, perhaps the only person who can pull it off. I'm willing to take my chances on Harris, that she won't make any huge, irreversible progressive changes.

If the Dems flip both Houses and Kamala wins, I don't feel like cutting my nose off to spite my face. I don't want a bunch of new taxes and more weirdness than we already have.

I still have no interest in supporting her as a candidate. I'm not so hot to beat Trump that I want to push us any further left. I don't care for the guy, but the country was fine with Trump as president and if not for the pandemic we'd already likely be done with Trump.

I do not view him as an existential threat to America. I will not support far left policy to beat him. Biden was a moderate for the most part, but if Harris is far left and things align in November for her with Democrats taking Congress, I don't feel like dealing with that.

[River Dog]

She's pretty liberal, but her stance on a number of subjects has changed multiple times over her career, so I'm not sure how relevant her past positions are. I'm not too concerned about it as so long as the R's control at least one house of Congress, she won't be able to implement much of her agenda anyway.

The biggest priority in my view is defeating Donald Trump, and Harris is the best, perhaps the only person who can pull it off. I'm willing to take my chances on Harris, that she won't make any huge, irreversible progressive changes.

If the Dems flip both Houses and Kamala wins, I don't feel like cutting my nose off to spite my face. I don't want a bunch of new taxes and more weirdness than we already have.

I still have no interest in supporting her from candidate. I'm not so hot to beat Trump that I want to push us any further left. I don't care for the guy, but the country was fine with Trump as president and if not for the pandemic we'd already likely be done with Trump.

I do not view him as an existential threat to America. I will not support far left policy to beat him. Biden was a moderate for the most part, but if Harris is far left and things align in November for her with Democrats taking Congress, I don't feel like dealing with that.

The math supports the R's in the Senate. The R's currently own 49 seats, the Dems 47, and there's 4 independents, all of whom caucus with the D's.

Of the 33 seats that are up for re-election, there are 20 Dems, 10 R's, and 3 independents. 4 of the incumbent Dem seats up for re-election are retiring while the R's have just 2 retirees and both are in deep red states (Utah and Indiana). Manchin, a Dem who recently declared himself an independent, is retiring, and he's from a deep red state in WV. Jon Tester, a Dem, has to defend his seat in deep red MT. There's several Dems having to run for re-election in swing states, like Stabenow in MI, Casey in PA, and Rosen in NV. Bob Menendez, a D from NJ who was convicted of bribery, has resigned in disgrace.

None of the R's that are defending Senate seats are from blue states. I fully expect the R's to win at least two of those D/I seats up for re-election, most likely MT and WV, and control the upper chamber.

Since all 435 House seats are up for re-election, the same math doesn't apply there as it does in the Senate. They might have a slight edge in incumbents that are retiring or running for another office (RFK Jr. D-LA, for example, is running for POTUS). Given that they already have an 8-seat margin, if I had to bet, I'd lay my money on them holding onto the House.

Our votes in this state are purely symbolic. Any generic Democrat would win the state without ever setting foot here, so it doesn't make any difference who we vote for. I don't care who his opponent is, I'm not voting for Trump.

[Aseahawkfan]

A certain segment of Democrats have really turned on Israel. Not sure how well that is going to play this election. They burning American flags and effigies of Netanyahu.

Israel is one of those nearly untouchable allies in America. This I cannot imagine playing well.

[NorthHawk]

Apparently you haven't read Project 2025
Here are some of the items in it that might change your mind

Complete ban on abortions without exceptions pgs 449-503
Ban contraceptives pg 449
Additional tax breaks for the 1% and Corporations pg 691
Elimination of unions and worker protections pg 581
Cut Social Security pg 691
Cut Medicare pg 449
Eliminate Dept. of Education pg 319
Use public taxpayer money for private religious schools pg 319
Teach Christian religious beliefs in public schools pg 319
End civil rights & DEI protections in government pgs 545 - 581
Ban African American gender studies an all levels of education pg 319
End climate protections pg 417
Increase Arctic drilling pg 363
Deregulate big business and the oil industry pg 363
End marriage equality pgs 545-581
Defund Homeland Security and the FBI pg 133
Use military to suppress domestic protests pg 133
Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in 'camps' pg 133
End birth right citizenship pg 133
Eliminate Federal Agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA, and others Pgs 363 - 417

As well it talks about replacing the top Generals in the Armed Forces with people
loyal to the President and not America and the Constitution. Along with all of the
remaining Federal Agencies workers from top to bottom.

It's a handbook for a totalitarian state. One man rule - and you are worried about moving a little to the left (which in the world politic is really right of center)?
If the Trump party gets in (there are no Republicans any more) this will be the last real vote of your lifetime.

[Aseahawkfan]

The math supports the R's in the Senate. The R's currently own 49 seats, the Dems 47, and there's 4 independents, all of whom caucus with the D's.

Of the 33 seats that are up for re-election, there are 20 Dems, 10 R's, and 3 independents. 4 of the incumbent Dem seats up for re-election are retiring while the R's have just 2 retirees and both are in deep red states (Utah and Indiana). Manchin, a Dem who recently declared himself an independent, is retiring, and he's from a deep red state in WV. Jon Tester, a Dem, has to defend his seat in deep red MT. There's several Dems having to run for re-election in swing states, like Stabenow in MI, Casey in PA, and Rosen in NV. Bob Menendez, a D from NJ who was convicted of bribery, has resigned in disgrace.

None of the R's that are defending seats are from blue states. I fully expect the R's to win at least two of those D/I seats up for re-election, most likely MT and WV, and control the upper chamber.

Our votes in this state are purely symbolic. Any generic Democrat would win the state without ever setting foot here, so it doesn't make any difference who we vote for. I don't care who his opponent is, I'm not voting for Trump.

I won't vote for Trump, but I ain't voting for Kamala. Symbolic or not, I want no part of the far left weirdness. I will vote Republicans in Washington State hoping something can resist the weirdo Democrats in Washington State. My fear is the Washington and California Democrats gain too much power in D.C. and turn America into a real cesspool.

Did you see Washington State became the 2nd most dangerous state in the country? Mostly due to the insane property crime here while reaching the national average for violent crime and it is Democratic policy defunding police and raising the monetary amount on what is considered a felony property crime as well as limiting the police from taking care of vehicle property crime. Car theft is insane in Washington. Washington Democrats have made Washington State worse.

To be honest with you, I'd probably vote for Trump if ran for Washington State governor because the Washington Democrats already allowed this place to get as bad as Trump made D.C. on January 6th with all the rioting, vandalism, and bad behavior here where the Seattle City government allowed the takeover of six blocks of a city until someone was murdered.

I can't have these kind of people taking over D.C.

[River Dog]

The math supports the R's in the Senate. The R's currently own 49 seats, the Dems 47, and there's 4 independents, all of whom caucus with the D's.

Of the 33 seats that are up for re-election, there are 20 Dems, 10 R's, and 3 independents. 4 of the incumbent Dem seats up for re-election are retiring while the R's have just 2 retirees and both are in deep red states (Utah and Indiana). Manchin, a Dem who recently declared himself an independent, is retiring, and he's from a deep red state in WV. Jon Tester, a Dem, has to defend his seat in deep red MT. There's several Dems having to run for re-election in swing states, like Stabenow in MI, Casey in PA, and Rosen in NV. Bob Menendez, a D from NJ who was convicted of bribery, has resigned in disgrace.

None of the R's that are defending seats are from blue states. I fully expect the R's to win at least two of those D/I seats up for re-election, most likely MT and WV, and control the upper chamber.

Our votes in this state are purely symbolic. Any generic Democrat would win the state without ever setting foot here, so it doesn't make any difference who we vote for. I don't care who his opponent is, I'm not voting for Trump.

I won't vote for Trump, but I ain't voting for Kamala. Symbolic or not, I want no part of the far left weirdness. I will vote Republicans in Washington State hoping something can resist the weirdo Democrats in Washington State. My fear is the Washington and California Democrats gain too much power in D.C. and turn America into a real cesspool.

Did you see Washington State became the 2nd most dangerous state in the country? Mostly due to the insane property crime here while reaching the national average for violent crime and it is Democratic policy defunding police and raising the monetary amount on what is considered a felony property crime as well as limiting the police from taking care of vehicle property crime. Car theft is insane in Washington. Washington Democrats have made Washington State worse.

To be honest with you, I'd probably vote for Trump if ran for Washington State governor because the Washington Democrats already allowed this place to get as bad as Trump made D.C. on January 6th with all the rioting, vandalism, and bad behavior here where the Seattle City government allowed the takeover of six blocks of a city until someone was murdered.

I can't have these kind of people taking over D.C.

I don't know who I'm voting for yet, I just know that it won't be Trump and it won't be RFK Jr.

[River Dog]

Apparently you haven't read Project 2025
Here are some of the items in it that might change your mind

Complete ban on abortions without exceptions pgs 449-503
Ban contraceptives pg 449
Additional tax breaks for the 1% and Corporations pg 691
Elimination of unions and worker protections pg 581
Cut Social Security pg 691
Cut Medicare pg 449
Eliminate Dept. of Education pg 319
Use public taxpayer money for private religious schools pg 319
Teach Christian religious beliefs in public schools pg 319
End civil rights & DEI protections in government pgs 545 - 581
Ban African American gender studies an all levels of education pg 319
End climate protections pg 417
Increase Arctic drilling pg 363
Deregulate big business and the oil industry pg 363
End marriage equality pgs 545-581
Defund Homeland Security and the FBI pg 133
Use military to suppress domestic protests pg 133
Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in 'camps' pg 133
End birth right citizenship pg 133
Eliminate Federal Agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA, and others Pgs 363 - 417

As well it talks about replacing the top Generals in the Armed Forces with people
loyal to the President and not America and the Constitution. Along with all of the
remaining Federal Agencies workers from top to bottom.

It's a handbook for a totalitarian state. One man rule - and you are worried about moving a little to the left (which in the world politic is really right of center)?
If the Trump party gets in (there are no Republicans any more) this will be the last real vote of your lifetime.

I'm aware of Project 2025. It's basically a far-right wish list and nothing more. Some of that stuff, like ending birth right citizenship, would require a Constitutional amendment, which requires 2/3 majority of both the Senate, the House, and the States. And who is going to vote to make meaningful cuts to Social Security? Even Trump has said he's not involved with P-2025. In all likelihood, even if the R's control both the White House and Congress, very little of it will ever get implemented. It's not a reason to vote against R candidates.

There are still prochoice Republicans, enough to prevent a nationwide abortion ban. Sens. Collins and Murkowski are two off the top of my head. Surveys have shown that the vast majority of R's support abortion exemptions for rape, incest, and the health of the mother. They aren't going anywhere with that initiative.

I've already decided who I'm voting for in my Congressional district. Unless he doesn't survive the primary, I'm voting for Dan Newhouse, the incumbent R who was one of the very few R's who voted to impeach Trump for his involvement in the Jan. 6th riot. And Newhouse, BTW, supports a 20-week ban on abortion with the above exceptions, a very reasonable compromise IMO.

[Aseahawkfan]

Apparently you haven't read Project 2025
Here are some of the items in it that might change your mind

Complete ban on abortions without exceptions pgs 449-503
Ban contraceptives pg 449
Additional tax breaks for the 1% and Corporations pg 691
Elimination of unions and worker protections pg 581
Cut Social Security pg 691
Cut Medicare pg 449
Eliminate Dept. of Education pg 319
Use public taxpayer money for private religious schools pg 319
Teach Christian religious beliefs in public schools pg 319
End civil rights & DEI protections in government pgs 545 - 581
Ban African American gender studies an all levels of education pg 319
End climate protections pg 417
Increase Arctic drilling pg 363
Deregulate big business and the oil industry pg 363
End marriage equality pgs 545-581
Defund Homeland Security and the FBI pg 133
Use military to suppress domestic protests pg 133
Mass deportation of immigrants and incarceration in 'camps' pg 133
End birth right citizenship pg 133
Eliminate Federal Agencies like the FDA, EPA, NOAA, and others Pgs 363 - 417

As well it talks about replacing the top Generals in the Armed Forces with people
loyal to the President and not America and the Constitution. Along with all of the
remaining Federal Agencies workers from top to bottom.

It's a handbook for a totalitarian state. One man rule - and you are worried about moving a little to the left (which in the world politic is really right of center)?
If the Trump party gets in (there are no Republicans any more) this will be the last real vote of your lifetime.

Project 2025 is some right wing project that isn't going to happen. I did go and read it. A completely disjointed bunch of material that is nothing more than a boogieman site for Democrats to pretend the Republicans can implement much of any of it. It is hardly a handbook for a totalitarian state. It's just a bunch of horsecrap written by hundreds of different people tossing out ideas. So please stop selling me horsecrap like it's truth. It isn't.

Project 2025 is the new boogieman for Democrats to pretend Donald Trump is some kind of dictator fascist rather than just a rich narcissist who wants to be at two term president. You want to buy into that BS, buy in. I don't buy into stupid I know will not happen. Same as I don't see January 6th as a coup, just a tantrum by Trump that caused a riot as Mr. Billionaire Baby couldn't get his way. He wasn't ever a threat to take over America, so please stop selling me Democratic conspiracy theories. I have about as much interest in that as Qanon because that's about what Project 2025 is.

I don't listen to Republican horsecrap and I'm certainly not listening to Democrat horsecrap. I'm more interested in actual policy, not scare tactics to manipulate voting like you're pushing.

I'm far more worried about actual policy I see like using Title 9 to ruin female sports pushing the transgender agenda using Federal government power.

An excess increase in taxation to punish those who are successful in a useless attempt to redistribute wealth to people who will use it poorly.

Bad polices punishing police for interdicting crime that should be interdicted. Defunding of law enforcement.

No enforcement of even reasonable border protections to ensure well moderated immigration.

These are things that concern me and neither party is offering at the moment other than I guess tax relief by Republicans.

The Republicans are mostly pretenders in claiming they will fix immigration. Their bigwig corporate backers don't care about actual immigration reduction as they use immigrant labor to keep wages low and sell more product locally and worldwide. So immigration is better as an active issue for Republicans than one they fix, so they lie about wanting to do anything about it.

If you want to believe what these two lying parties are selling, have at it. I don't. I see two candidates that suck.

[River Dog]

Project 2025 is some right wing project that isn't going to happen. I did go and read it. A completely disjointed bunch of material that is nothing more than a boogieman site for Democrats to pretend the Republicans can implement much of any of it. It is hardly a handbook for a totalitarian state. It's just a bunch of horsecrap written by hundreds of different people tossing out ideas. So please stop selling me horsecrap like it's truth. It isn't.

Project 2025 is the new boogieman for Democrats to pretend Donald Trump is some kind of dictator fascist rather than just a rich narcissist who wants to be at two term president. You want to buy into that BS, buy in. I don't buy into stupid I know will not happen. Same as I don't see January 6th as a coup, just a tantrum by Trump that caused a riot as Mr. Billionaire Baby couldn't get his way. He wasn't ever a threat to take over America, so please stop selling me Democratic conspiracy theories. I have about as much interest in that as Qanon because that's about what Project 2025 is.

P-2025 is nothing but a scare tactic, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Dems are behind it, or at least making sure that it gets advertised. For decades, Democrats have been using SS and Medicare to scare voters into voting for them vs. their R opponents. And who in the hell is going to cut all those departments? In the entire history of the country, how many federal departments have ever been eliminated? They've been split or combined, but to my knowledge, none have actually been abolished. Ronald Reagan was the leading anti-government crusader of the 20th century, made multiple promises to eliminate entire departments, DOE being one, had a working majority in Congress, and despite his best efforts, even he couldn't eliminate any.

P-2025 is a laughingstock, and I can't imagine any voter with half a brain that would use it as a justification to vote against an R. But, then again, there's a lot of voters that don't have half a brain, which is why that kind of garbage is effective.

And btw North Hawk, although you're a Canadian, I do appreciate your input. Don't let the negative replies discourage you from voicing your opinion.

[Aseahawkfan]

P-2025 is nothing but a scare tactic, and it wouldn't surprise me if the Dems are behind it, or at least making sure that it gets advertised. For decades, Democrats have been using SS and Medicare to scare voters into voting for them vs. their R opponents. And who in the hell is going to cut all those departments? In the entire history of the country, how many federal departments have ever been eliminated? They've been split or combined, but to my knowledge, none have actually been abolished. Ronald Reagan was the leading anti-government crusader of the 20th century, made multiple promises to eliminate entire departments, DOE being one, had a working majority in Congress, and despite his best efforts, even he couldn't eliminate any.

P-2025 is a laughingstock, and I can't imagine any voter with half a brain that would use it as a justification to vote against an R. But, then again, there's a lot of voters that don't have half a brain, which is why that kind of garbage is effective.

And btw North Hawk, although you're a Canadian, I do appreciate your input. Don't let the negative replies discourage you from voicing your opinion.

P-2025 is like when one my Trump voting friends tells me Biden is sending 80 million a week to fund the Taliban to attack America, then I look it up and the 80 million is part of U.N. Food relief to farmers in Afghanistan and is not at all intended to fund the Taliban to attack America. Just someone taking some kernel of truth and spinning it wildly into something much darker and ridiculous. Sure, I'm sure some of it reaches Taliban hands as they are now the official government of Afghanistan again since the Northern Alliance ran like cowards, but no way is it being sent to intentionally harm America.

Or my buddy telling me murders are up in Oregon 2000% went it went from 1 to 20 over the course of the year. Some fear mongering Republican is trying to use percentages to scare people.

Man, do I hate this fear mongering by both parties. This deluded, demented, deranged politics where both parties are selling each other as the Devil and the end of America. I literally feel disgust and anger towards both of these parties right now for turning us into a clown show. Sure, Trump started it, but the Dems put their clown paint and followed him into the circus tent. It all sickens me.

Best way to handle an asshat like Trump is to pat him on his little head, ignore the whiny b****, and wait him out while keeping him contained.

All these trials and all this anti-Trump press just empowers Trump, makes him look like a victim in the eyes of his followers, and creates more division. When they just could have let Mr. Whiny Baby cry, ignored him not giving him so much press, and let his looney tweeting turn off voters. But no, just couldn't do it. Democrats had to engage in his game and be drawn into the mud pit, same as the anti-Trump Republicans. Turn us into a clown show with Trump as the Ringmaster feeding on it all and using it to his benefit.

[Stream Hawk]

P-2025 is like when one my Trump voting friends tells me Biden is sending 80 million a week to fund the Taliban to attack America, then I look it up and the 80 million is part of U.N. Food relief to farmers in Afghanistan and is not at all intended to fund the Taliban to attack America. Just someone taking some kernel of truth and spinning it wildly into something much darker and ridiculous. Sure, I'm sure some of it reaches Taliban hands as they are now the official government of Afghanistan again since the Northern Alliance ran like cowards, but no way is it being sent to intentionally harm America.

Or my buddy telling me murders are up in Oregon 2000% went it went from 1 to 20 over the course of the year. Some fear mongering Republican is trying to use percentages to scare people.

Man, do I hate this fear mongering by both parties. This deluded, demented, deranged politics where both parties are selling each other as the Devil and the end of America. I literally feel disgust and anger towards both of these parties right now for turning us into a clown show. Sure, Trump started it, but the Dems put their clown paint and followed him into the circus tent. It all sickens me.

Best way to handle an asshat like Trump is to pat him on his little head, ignore the whiny b****, and wait him out while keeping him contained.

All these trials and all this anti-Trump press just empowers Trump, makes him look like a victim in the eyes of his followers, and creates more division. When they just could have let Mr. Whiny Baby cry, ignored him not giving him so much press, and let his looney tweeting turn off voters. But no, just couldn't do it. Democrats had to engage in his game and be drawn into the mud pit, same as the anti-Trump Republicans. Turn us into a clown show with Trump as the Ringmaster feeding on it all and using it to his benefit.

Not so sure about that, Asea (& River). Have you heard or watched any Trump speeches lately? Trump is saying the most whacked stuff, especially after perhaps the all-time worst convention acceptance speech. I don’t have the time to share all the links of his recent nonsenses, but he’s been acting even worse since the assassination attempt. One would think that might have made him humbled him. Nope, he’s a complete ahole again. Biden steps out of race and he attacked him?! How is this showing leadership against a fellow American?

Trump was also very aloof when asked about P-25. Actually quite similar to his response about QAnon several years back. Obviously he knew a bunch about them! He knows about all of this because he wants to tilt the narrative to whatever wins. His cult will eat up all that nonsense.

Trump is the biggest phony of my lifetime, and it’s not close.

Also, Kamala might be left on some issues, but she was a hard a** AG. Tough on crime was taboo during the 2020 election, so she ran away from that. This experience is needed now. While she’s left on important social and environmental issues, she has expert-level crime prosecution acumen and sits on the executive branch. This is a cool combo. I’m rolling with Kamala and not looking back.