Sacks allowed

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Sacks allowed

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 06, 2014 8:43 am

We don't have enough threads going, so I figured I'd toss out something that's sure to open up a debate.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/qb-sacked-pct

Not only were we last in QB sack percentage, it wasn't even close as the second worst was a full percentage point behind us. We allowed a quarterback sack on nearly 10% of our passing attempts, and that's with one of the game's best, if not the best, escape artists under center.

I realize that sacks aren't the only criteria for pass protection or grading offensive lines, but even so, it's hard to rationalize a stat like that, and highlights the concern some of us have had over upgrading this area of our team. We are playing Russian roulette with the best quarterback this franchise has ever had. The odds of Russell getting hurt are about 4 times greater than Peyton Manning getting hurt.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 8:49 am

With our Defense, if we can get the OL going, we could be unstoppable.
I'm hoping this draft brings us both a starting Guard and Tackle - we haven't had a good LG since Hutchinson and we need someone who can play LT when Okung is out of the lineup - as well it would give us some flexibility when his contract is up.

Edit:
This is only how many sacks allowed. The QB hits are pretty high, too.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby kalibane » Tue May 06, 2014 8:49 am

Well yeah that's why pretty much everyone sees OL as the biggest need. The only debate has been how aggressive (or in my opinion reckless) the front office should be in addressing that need.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 8:54 am

kalibane wrote:Well yeah that's why pretty much everyone sees OL as the biggest need. The only debate has been how aggressive (or in my opinion reckless) the front office should be in addressing that need.


They've put themselves into a position where they are almost forced to address it - and that's not their philosophy on drafting.
We'll see how it goes in the next 5 days.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby kalibane » Tue May 06, 2014 9:05 am

Perhaps, but it's cheaper to draft a mediocre offensive lineman than it is to sign one in free agency.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby Steady_Hawk » Tue May 06, 2014 9:18 am

RD,

This is why I'm for trading up for Greg Robinson. I'm honestly not sure how Wilson made it out alive through that stretch of injured lineman, but I'm not willing to gamble that he could do it again. I'm also not willing to gamble that Okung can stay healthy either, therefore I'm willing to sacrifice more picks as our team isn't talent deficient at this point and we need a true LT anchor to protect Wilson.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 9:32 am

kalibane wrote:Perhaps, but it's cheaper to draft a mediocre offensive lineman than it is to sign one in free agency.


If they don't upgrade the OL in the draft they will be squeezed to go after mediocre or better OL in FA.
You can't leave your Franchise QB on his own out there with opponents going out of their way to try and hit him hard.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby kalibane » Tue May 06, 2014 9:33 am

They need a RT and LG way more than they need a LT. Trading up for Robinson (which would cost at least 2 future first rounders in addition to this years) would be a massive waste of resources.

North,

I'm sure they will address the O-line. Breno left and they didn't pick up Carpenter's option which tips their hand. I also am not fundamentally against signing offensive linemen in FA I just didn't like this years free agent class. They were way too expensive for the talent they offered.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 9:37 am

kalibane wrote:They need a RT and LG way more than they need a LT. Trading up for Robinson (which would cost at least 2 future first rounders in addition to this years) would be a massive waste of resources.


I agree. I think you can get a pretty good player at 32 and well into the 2nd round or 3rd rounds if they end up trading down for more picks.
The number of Juniors that entered the draft this year has helped us in that way.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby nlbmsportin » Tue May 06, 2014 9:41 am

Trading up from 32 to the Top 5 would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. If anything we need more picks to sustain depth as players start getting large contracts.

While the O-line needs to be upgraded at LG and RT, a good chunk of the sacks can be chalked up to RW's style. It is just a lot harder to protect for a QB that improvises that much.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby Eaglehawk » Tue May 06, 2014 9:51 am

Steady_Hawk wrote:RD,

This is why I'm for trading up for Greg Robinson. I'm honestly not sure how Wilson made it out alive through that stretch of injured lineman, but I'm not willing to gamble that he could do it again. I'm also not willing to gamble that Okung can stay healthy either, therefore I'm willing to sacrifice more picks as our team isn't talent deficient at this point and we need a true LT anchor to protect Wilson.


The way I see it, I think that it's its almost a gimme that Okung will get injured again this season. Sad but true. His physiology demands it. :shock:
If we do not drastically improve the o line this season and something happens to Wilson, I will be the first to throw PC to the wolves, since that is one of the ways I see us not making it to the SB next season. I personally am with you Steady, I don't know how Wilson made it out alive last season with these horrendous O line numbers.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby kalibane » Tue May 06, 2014 9:59 am

True in part NLBM but both guard positions were horrendous in pass protection and it would have been comical how bad the left side was when McQuistan was playing LT in place of Okung if I hadn't been a Seahawk fan. It was like the Bizzaro Walt/Hutch combo watching McQuistan and Carpenter out doing their best matador impressions.

While scramblers do tend to take more sacks I think the vast majority were due to terrible protection.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 06, 2014 10:04 am

There isn't (and hasn't been throughout Pete's tenure) any question that O-line has been our most unsettled group. While it's not for lack of trying (we have expended the draft and FA capitol to address the need) we just haven't gotten the desired result yet. Which is exactly why we let McQ and the big Russian walk, allowing us (requiring us more accurately) to bring in new blood. Hopefully we will have a better result with the incoming talent.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue May 06, 2014 10:09 am

nlbmsportin wrote:Trading up from 32 to the Top 5 would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. If anything we need more picks to sustain depth as players start getting large contracts.

While the O-line needs to be upgraded at LG and RT, a good chunk of the sacks can be chalked up to RW's style. It is just a lot harder to protect for a QB that improvises that much.


Totally agree. In fact I expect us to move out of the first round all together rather than move up, perhaps pick up a 3rd and a 7th ... this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory for O-linemen (especially interior linemen) and WR's. Lucky us, those are two areas could do us the most good just now.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 06, 2014 11:05 am

nlbmsportin wrote:Trading up from 32 to the Top 5 would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. If anything we need more picks to sustain depth as players start getting large contracts.

While the O-line needs to be upgraded at LG and RT, a good chunk of the sacks can be chalked up to RW's style. It is just a lot harder to protect for a QB that improvises that much.


I agree. IMO if one of the top 3 OT's happens to drop into the 20's, I wouldn't mind trading up and snagging him for next year's 3rd or 4th rounder or something. But trading up into the top 5 would be prohibitively expensive. Plus it would solve just one problem. We also need depth, which means numbers, and we're already a bit short of picks due to the Harvin trade.

Trading down in a draft that is supposedly overstocked with OL talent might be the better way to go. Get us 3 OL's with 2nd round or lower picks and maybe one of them will pan out. It's the shotgun approach vs. a single bullet. Plus it's going to be more expensive to sign a first rounder, and we're in a spot where every penny counts.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby mykc14 » Tue May 06, 2014 11:09 am

c_hawkbob wrote:
nlbmsportin wrote:Trading up from 32 to the Top 5 would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. If anything we need more picks to sustain depth as players start getting large contracts.

While the O-line needs to be upgraded at LG and RT, a good chunk of the sacks can be chalked up to RW's style. It is just a lot harder to protect for a QB that improvises that much.


Totally agree. In fact I expect us to move out of the first round all together rather than move up, perhaps pick up a 3rd and a 7th ... this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory for O-linemen (especially interior linemen) and WR's. Lucky us, those are two areas could do us the most good just now.


I also agree with both points. I really am hoping that we don't make a pick on Thursday, unless somebody very special somehow falls to us. Our O-line is a huge need and will be addressed in the draft. I also see WR and even DE a need as well. Really if we can get a starting quality Leo or OL I would be very happy. If we pick a WR it needs to be a better guy than just starting quality or league average, IMO. It would have to be a stud type of #1 potential WR. At DE and OL (especially OL) we only need an average starter and it would be an upgrade to what we had last year. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping for a stud at all of those positions, but the OL and Leo DE we have on the roster now are league average at best.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 11:17 am

The counter to the expense of a 1st round pick is teams get to use the 5th year option if desired. 2nd and later picks means we have to negotiate a year earlier if the player is good.
It might be a reason why a team in the 2nd might want to trade back into the 1st round if they see a player they like an know he won't be there with their next pick.

Considering the lack of Draft and FA capital expended on the OL the last 2 years, they are due to take a run at at least one very good prospect and like RD said, if they trade down and get multiple picks, the odds are better that at least one can be an immediate contributor.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue May 06, 2014 11:28 am

mykc14 wrote:
c_hawkbob wrote:
nlbmsportin wrote:Trading up from 32 to the Top 5 would be one of the worst moves in the history of this franchise. If anything we need more picks to sustain depth as players start getting large contracts.

While the O-line needs to be upgraded at LG and RT, a good chunk of the sacks can be chalked up to RW's style. It is just a lot harder to protect for a QB that improvises that much.


Totally agree. In fact I expect us to move out of the first round all together rather than move up, perhaps pick up a 3rd and a 7th ... this is one of the deepest drafts in recent memory for O-linemen (especially interior linemen) and WR's. Lucky us, those are two areas could do us the most good just now.


I also agree with both points. I really am hoping that we don't make a pick on Thursday, unless somebody very special somehow falls to us. Our O-line is a huge need and will be addressed in the draft. I also see WR and even DE a need as well. Really if we can get a starting quality Leo or OL I would be very happy. If we pick a WR it needs to be a better guy than just starting quality or league average, IMO. It would have to be a stud type of #1 potential WR. At DE and OL (especially OL) we only need an average starter and it would be an upgrade to what we had last year. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping for a stud at all of those positions, but the OL and Leo DE we have on the roster now are league average at best.


Do you honestly believe Avril is league average at best? Don't see how that statement can be made about a guy that has more forced turnovers in the league than any other defensive end over the last 4 seasons.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby mykc14 » Tue May 06, 2014 11:51 am

[/quote]

I also agree with both points. I really am hoping that we don't make a pick on Thursday, unless somebody very special somehow falls to us. Our O-line is a huge need and will be addressed in the draft. I also see WR and even DE a need as well. Really if we can get a starting quality Leo or OL I would be very happy. If we pick a WR it needs to be a better guy than just starting quality or league average, IMO. It would have to be a stud type of #1 potential WR. At DE and OL (especially OL) we only need an average starter and it would be an upgrade to what we had last year. Don't get me wrong, I am hoping for a stud at all of those positions, but the OL and Leo DE we have on the roster now are league average at best.[/quote]

Do you honestly believe Avril is league average at best? Don't see how that statement can be made about a guy that has more forced turnovers in the league than any other defensive end over the last 4 seasons.[/quote]

Obviously Avril isn't league average at best and no I wasn't talking about him. I was specifically talking about the Leo position, which he really didn't play much last year. He may be our Leo on paper right now, and might actually have to be our Leo next year, but IMO he was extremely effective rushing opposite Clemons last year. I hope that he doesn't have to play Leo this year because I feel like it will limit his impact to some extent. Looking at our Roster there has to be some concern over the Leo position, IMO. I don't think it will be Avril, he was too effective from where he was last year. Will it be Irvin, or Scruggs, or Schofield? That is my point all of those guys come with huge question marks and I wouldn't be shocked if something better *could* be found early in the draft (first 3 round). I hope that those guys work out but certainly am not sold on that position, especially with how important that position is in our D.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 11:54 am

We do need someone to replace Red.too. Maybe it will be Hill or Williams, or it might be someone like Hageman or Tuitt in the draft.
It's a need because of the rotations we use. Clemons might be missed more than we think, too so DE isn't a bad guess or want in the draft, as well.
If we get a WR at some point in the draft I hope he can also return punts. Tate was dependable and also came up big for us last year on more than one punt. It's an important part of our Special Teams.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue May 06, 2014 1:17 pm

Double post
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue May 06, 2014 1:19 pm

Bennett and Avril were/ are FAR more productive ends than it seems people want to give them credit for is this defense. Avril did indeed play opposite Clemmons, however, it seems people are forgetting that one of the fundamental changes the SeaHawks made last season was to flip the location of where the Leo lined up ( from weak to strong), as well as the fact that for allof Reds dominance against the run two seasons ago, last season wasn't CLOSE to the same in performance and by the end of the year Red was playing about 30-40% of the snaps, as Bennett took those from him. The QUALITY of those starters hasn't slid in the least this off season. An argument can be made for "quality" depth, or even an eye to the future ( as I doubt Seattle ponies up ten million or more a year for Avril), but actual quality of those positions? Nah, they're good in that regard. Multiplicity of the players they do have is a BIG deal to them, whether it be a d tackle that fill in for Red in the Jumbo package or a fast versatile LB/DE hybrid like Schofield/Irvin in the race car package.

Avril and Bennett start at ends ( even Carroll confirmed that). This Coaching staff KNOWS how to get the most out of the players they do have, and have shown that ability year in and year out, whether it be moving Red, trading for Clemmons or signing Bennett, I am not concerned that Scruggs, Mayowa,Schofield etc can't fill a rotational role on this D, or if they select another, because ultimately, they have proven that ability for 5 years now.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby mykc14 » Tue May 06, 2014 2:11 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:Bennett and Avril were/ are FAR more productive ends than it seems people want to give them credit for is this defense. Avril did indeed play opposite Clemmons, however, it seems people are forgetting that one of the fundamental changes the SeaHawks made last season was to flip the location of where the Leo lined up ( from weak to strong), as well as the fact that for allof Reds dominance against the run two seasons ago, last season wasn't CLOSE to the same in performance and by the end of the year Red was playing about 30-40% of the snaps, as Bennett took those from him. The QUALITY of those starters hasn't slid in the least this off season. An argument can be made for "quality" depth, or even an eye to the future ( as I doubt Seattle ponies up ten million or more a year for Avril), but actual quality of those positions? Nah, they're good in that regard. Multiplicity of the players they do have is a BIG deal to them, whether it be a d tackle that fill in for Red in the Jumbo package or a fast versatile LB/DE hybrid like Schofield/Irvin in the race car package.

Avril and Bennett start at ends ( even Carroll confirmed that). This Coaching staff KNOWS how to get the most out of the players they do have, and have shown that ability year in and year out, whether it be moving Red, trading for Clemmons or signing Bennett, I am not concerned that Scruggs, Mayowa,Schofield etc can't fill a rotational role on this D, or if they select another, because ultimately, they have proven that ability for 5 years now.


I have no doubt that the coaching staff knows how to get the best of the players that they have, but that doesn't necessarily solve the issue that I am describing. The dynamic of Avril rushing from one side, Clemons on the other, and Bennett/McDonald from the middle is what I am discussing. I am not 'worried' about it or anything, just making a comment that if a starting 'Leo' type player/pass rusher were there I wouldn't be surprised if we selected one early. If/when Avril and Bennett start at ends I agree we will be 'fine' but think Clemons may be missed a little more than some think. Its the whole package. I remember Bennett taking Red's snaps and DE and agree that we were better when that switch was made, but at the same time Clemons was the other 'starting' DE. Again, 'starting' as it pertains to our DL isn't as big of a deal because we rotate so much, but again I am slight worried about Avril's effectiveness in that role without a guy like Clem on the other side. Scruggs, Mayowa, Schofield, Irvin, etc might be that other effective pass rusher, but we don't know that and if they like a player who could challenge to start or see significant time at that position I wouldn't be surprised if they drafted him, would you?
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 2:15 pm

I can see them taking a player that mykc14 suggests. It fits with their competition model and fills a depth need, at least for this year.
Avril is a FA next year so they might be looking down the road a little.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue May 06, 2014 2:34 pm

I guess I see that as the "situational" pass rusher people lamented Irvin being ( and quite honestly I could see sliding into that spot once again in clear pass rushing situations with Avril on one side, Bennett sliding in and Irvin on the end with Smith as the LB). Just don't see some sort of big hole there, and would be dissapointed to see a draft pick early spent there. A DT to replace an aging Mebane ( only if it was the RIGHT guy)maybe, but personally, the D line isn't something I am in anyway concerned with at the moment, or going into the season. I feel very good about that line, and the D in general. If a "special" player drops, then so be it, I won't complain, but I don't see a special Leo being there at that point. Clowney isn't making it down to 2 much less 32, I honestly would prefer a guard, receiver, TE or even a CORNER to a Leo prospect picked early in this draft and not necessarily in that order.....

one of the things this staff has phenomenal at doing is finding "fill" guys for that role, and they aren't shy about doing it, either through free agency or from scraps off other teams, and being successful doing so, so I'm just not sweating it. I believe they have enough talent, ability and depth to actually IMPROVE from last year, and while I appreciate Red and Chris' efforts, I do not lament those moves in the least.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 3:10 pm

Since this thread is morphing into a general Draft Talk thread, Kam had recent hip surgery but is expected to be ready for the season.
Will this push a S up their board if one should fall to us? We do have Johnson as a backup so we have some comfort but who knows how they value adding another Safety?
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Tue May 06, 2014 3:25 pm

Saw no reason to rehash the o-line. So I didn't.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 06, 2014 5:03 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Since this thread is morphing into a general Draft Talk thread, Kam had recent hip surgery but is expected to be ready for the season.
Will this push a S up their board if one should fall to us? We do have Johnson as a backup so we have some comfort but who knows how they value adding another Safety?


I didn't really intend for the thread to be just about the OL. I came across a stat I felt you guys would be interested in, hence the title. What I really wanted to do was to shake things up in here, and with as many replies as it's gotten, I think that goal was achieved.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby Steady_Hawk » Tue May 06, 2014 9:29 pm

In response to the many who may feel I'm insane, I really think Greg Robinson might be a very smart move.

#1. I have heard talk that he has a lot of similarities with our very own Walter Jones. Both were insanely fast and light on their feet. Most rank Greg as the #1 OT in the draft, and I remember Schneider talking about how high Walter Jones ranked on their board that year and how he was one the highest prospect ranking he had ever seen. If, and that's a fairly big if, Robinson sits that high on their board I would hope they would be looking at options to move up.

#2. Depth? We need more depth? Well, last time I checked so do the other 31 teams. We are probably one of the absolute deepest teams in the NFL as I type this. Lame excuse not to find a cornerstone piece if possible.

#3. Okung, while I love the guy he just can't stay healthy, and if this trend continues he won't be extended. We will have to find another LT anyways. I don't care how strange his injuries are, they keep piling up.

#4. We know what we have in Wilson. The guy is HOF material. He's simply phenomenal. Mark my words, you will never see another like him here, ever. For that reason, you cannot risk his health with unreliable OT's and doing so will be far more painful than having more draft picks.

#5. We don't do that well in the 1st round anyway. Thomas is the only surefire bet we have made out of 5 tries. Harvin is special, but let's wait to see if that trade was a worthy investment.

#6. Our money picks have been late round risk picks that have panned out. For that reason especially I wouldn't care if we trade some of our top picks away.

#7. Finally, we have no idea what that cost would be. It all depends on how badly another team wishes to move down. Raiders are talking with three teams as they have made it clear they wish to trade down. Back when the Jets traded for Sanchez they moved up quite a bit for a tawdry second round pick and a couple no-name players, so there's simply no way to know the cost to this team. I would not pull the trigger for 3 first round picks as Kali believes. There is a limit, but it doesn't mean you don't kick some tires.

Bottom line, if Schneider deems Greg Robinson as the next Walter Jones, I hope like hell they pull the trigger if the cost isn't too substantial. A healthy Russell Wilson is worth more than an entire draft.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Tue May 06, 2014 10:06 pm

We don't have depth along the OL. The only RT is Bowie, Okung routinely gets hurt and we don't know who might replace him, we haven't had a LG good enough to start a full year since Hutchinson, Sweezy at RG is still learning how to play Offense. The OL needs an upgrade at multiple spots so giving up a bunch of picks this year and probably next years 1st at least is a huge cost to move up 27 or 28 spots.

As well, we lost 2 regular players in the DL rotation in Clemons and Bryant as well as 2 CBs.
The depth is much less than it was in January and has to be replenished.

I expect us to trade down for more picks, but if nobody wants our picks when we want to trade down, we end up with only 5 selections this year.
Edit: 6 picks (2 5th round selections)
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby RiverDog » Tue May 06, 2014 10:54 pm

Steady_Hawk wrote:In response to the many who may feel I'm insane, I really think Greg Robinson might be a very smart move.


You're not "insane." It's an option that some of us don't agree with.

My problem is that your proposal to trade up is a putting all your eggs in one basket philosophy at a time when we don't have a lot of draft capital to bargain with (#32 slotting and minus a 3rd rounder) in a draft that is supposed to be overloaded with talent at that position, and as North Hawk pointed out, we have a depth issue. Even if Robinson were a huge success, which is not a given, he can only play one position at a time.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed May 07, 2014 5:10 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Saw no reason to rehash the o-line. So I didn't.


But that's how it's done man, you hash and rehash and rehash some more right up until there's no time left on the clock for your pick ... then you commence to rehashing all over again until time for your next pick.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 07, 2014 7:52 am

I stumbled upon an article last night about how the Seahawks draft and the writer said there seems to be a bit of a trend in that they go for players who might be coming off an injury and/or didn't have their best year prior to entering the draft. Stephon Tuitt fits in all areas if this theory holds. He came off of hernia surgery last year, and his numbers were down because of it. He can play both inside and out so he fits the spot that Red played, but with more pass rush ability.
With us losing Bryant, McDonald, and Clemons along the DL, it seems a DT/DE might be high on their board.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby EntiatHawk » Wed May 07, 2014 7:54 am

I think you draft best players available. We have to trust that the team will get the O-line going in the right direction. But we all know if they can get halfway decent play out of the o-line this team is going to be a menace.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby kalibane » Wed May 07, 2014 8:09 am

a lot of people think Tuitt is a good fit for the Seahawks but it seems like the closer we get to the draft the more he seems projected in the middle of the first round so who knows?
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 07, 2014 8:28 am

EntiatHawk wrote:I think you draft best players available. We have to trust that the team will get the O-line going in the right direction. But we all know if they can get halfway decent play out of the o-line this team is going to be a menace.


OL is the most glaring issue today, and I hope it's addressed, but next year Avril is a FA, so I'm not sure we can sign him and Russell (assuming we have signed Sherman this year).
This means replenishing the DL when we get the chance.

Kal mentions Tuitt in the mid-late first. I've seen him all over the map, too. If he is high on their board, it might take a little luck to get him.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby HumanCockroach » Wed May 07, 2014 10:01 am

c_hawkbob wrote:
HumanCockroach wrote:Saw no reason to rehash the o-line. So I didn't.


But that's how it's done man, you hash and rehash and rehash some more right up until there's no time left on the clock for your pick ... then you commence to rehashing all over again until time for your next pick.


If I was a GM or a scout or a coach or an owner, hell, even if I was a player maybe, I'm not, so I don't feel like rehashing it. I've made my position clear on the o-line, and the resources spent there, as well as the success' and failures, I understand that mobile QB's increase sack and hit numbers ( which is what Wilson is) as well as young QB's propensity to do so as well. I'm comfortable withfour fifths of the starters on that line, they only "need" I see is depth and a possible fifth starter at guard. I do believe Bowie having graded out higher than 85% of the right tackles in the league ( including those people wanted so desperately to dump money down) can handle the RT position, I like what I see from Sweezy,Okung,and Unger, I would love an upgrade over Carpenter, but haven't simply written him off completely, and am not convinced a better replacement is already on the team.

I don't believe in "pedigree" , I believe in talent, and the ability for this FO to find that talent. I don't believe that all sacks and hits can be realistically be lplayed at the feet of the offensive line, and for all of Wilson's clutch ability, don't believe "protecting" him is the only priority that should be considered at all costs to keeping this team winning SB's. He's a big part, but NOT the only part that matters, as many want to make it seem. This isn't Tom Brady, who's team can't win without him throwing for five thousand yards a season. I don't understand WHY people believe he is, that isn't what this team is predicated on ( and really NO SB winning team has been for decades). Wanting "all" the marbles simply isn't how the NFL works, and I personally am comfortable with understanding the truth in that. EVERY team has holes, and if the hole happens to be a LG I can live with that.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby NorthHawk » Wed May 07, 2014 10:27 am

The team philosophy as I understand it is a strong Defense and an Offense built on a strong run game.
Unless Michael brings similar qualities to the run game, when Marshawn loses his edge as all RB's do at some point, our run game could be impacted in a big way.

The OL is the most important part of the Offense. With an average or less than average OL, that counterpart to the strong Defense is hampered in performance.
We saw that against the NFC West last year when they shut down the run and then attacked the edges.
It's also why the OL is thought to be the weakest link and highest priority and it can't really reach its peak by picking up last round selections, UFA's, and other former UFAs in Free Agency and hoping to find a gem.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby Anthony » Wed May 07, 2014 10:38 am

HumanCockroach wrote:
c_hawkbob wrote:
HumanCockroach wrote:Saw no reason to rehash the o-line. So I didn't.


But that's how it's done man, you hash and rehash and rehash some more right up until there's no time left on the clock for your pick ... then you commence to rehashing all over again until time for your next pick.


If I was a GM or a scout or a coach or an owner, hell, even if I was a player maybe, I'm not, so I don't feel like rehashing it. I've made my position clear on the o-line, and the resources spent there, as well as the success' and failures, I understand that mobile QB's increase sack and hit numbers ( which is what Wilson is) as well as young QB's propensity to do so as well. I'm comfortable withfour fifths of the starters on that line, they only "need" I see is depth and a possible fifth starter at guard. I do believe Bowie having graded out higher than 85% of the right tackles in the league ( including those people wanted so desperately to dump money down) can handle the RT position, I like what I see from Sweezy,Okung,and Unger, I would love an upgrade over Carpenter, but haven't simply written him off completely, and am not convinced a better replacement is already on the team.

I don't believe in "pedigree" , I believe in talent, and the ability for this FO to find that talent. I don't believe that all sacks and hits can be realistically be lplayed at the feet of the offensive line, and for all of Wilson's clutch ability, don't believe "protecting" him is the only priority that should be considered at all costs to keeping this team winning SB's. He's a big part, but NOT the only part that matters, as many want to make it seem. This isn't Tom Brady, who's team can't win without him throwing for five thousand yards a season. I don't understand WHY people believe he is, that isn't what this team is predicated on ( and really NO SB winning team has been for decades). Wanting "all" the marbles simply isn't how the NFL works, and I personally am comfortable with understanding the truth in that. EVERY team has holes, and if the hole happens to be a LG I can live with that.


Actually there was an article done were they broke down the sacks., and hits and only 1 of each was attributed to RW. So yeah we have a huge o-lien problem and Rw is the biggest part of the offense. Yes I am sure you can live with a hole at LG until w gets hurt because of it, and he is out and we start loosing. We do not make the playoffs without RW, he is our franchise QB you protect him period.
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Re: Sacks allowed

Postby Anthony » Wed May 07, 2014 10:41 am

NorthHawk wrote:The team philosophy as I understand it is a strong Defense and an Offense built on a strong run game.
Unless Michael brings similar qualities to the run game, when Marshawn loses his edge as all RB's do at some point, our run game could be impacted in a big way.

The OL is the most important part of the Offense. With an average or less than average OL, that counterpart to the strong Defense is hampered in performance.
We saw that against the NFC West last year when they shut down the run and then attacked the edges.
It's also why the OL is thought to be the weakest link and highest priority and it can't really reach its peak by picking up last round selections, UFA's, and other former UFAs in Free Agency and hoping to find a gem.



good point but you are forgetting 30+% of our run game was RW, and this offense is also based on big plays in the passing games, something hard to do without protection for your QB.
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