Russell Wilson

[Hawktawk]

I caught some of Russell’s post game comments . Beyond the get our butt kicked stuff with a defense battling their guts out ? I doubt it was well received regardless of his expression . What stuck out was hearing on ESPN him talking about all the great plays the offense had made , really played great most of the time . Not I sucked . Can’t stop the clock there . Nope . That’s one thing that has never changed . Russ taking full accountability . Still talking , bragging about almost wins like a dog that caught the car . You can do that when you’re great and usually win . None of it can be going over well with that team . If they fire Hackett who wants it ? He’s being killed in 10 weeks of a career .

[Old but Slow]

Just saw a report on NFL.com that Melvin Gordon was cut today and that Wilson may not start the next game.

"They're breaking up that old gang of mine". Or however that old tune went.

[Hawktawk]

Just saw a report on NFL.com that Melvin Gordon was cut today and that Wilson may not start the next game.

"They're breaking up that old gang of mine". Or however that old tune went.

May not start Wilson ? Wow ! I hadn’t heard that . It would be pretty shocking to see the dude benched for Brett Rypien 10 games in . Have a hard time believing that

[RiverDog]

Just saw a report on NFL.com that Melvin Gordon was cut today and that Wilson may not start the next game.

"They're breaking up that old gang of mine". Or however that old tune went.

May not start Wilson ? Wow ! I hadn’t heard that . It would be pretty shocking to see the dude benched for Brett Rypien 10 games in . Have a hard time believing that

I haven't heard it, either, and would appreciate a link to said report.

[RiverDog]

Here's a good take on the issue of Russell throwing away a pass on 3rd and 10, ball on their own 34, leading by 3 and under two minutes with the Raiders out of timeouts and stopping the clock, instead of taking the sack. There are also some other comments about the state of the Broncos, Hackett, and Russell:

Wilson threw incomplete on third down. He wasn't even close to a target and it looked like he might be throwing it away. Even if Hackett gave up play-calling duties this past week, someone has to let Wilson know that a sack in that spot isn’t bad. Wilson is a veteran, and he has to know better. A sack would have run 40 seconds off the clock. In hindsight, the Broncos should have just run up the middle. At least burning 40 seconds off the clock would have done something positive for their chances to win.

https://sports.yahoo.com/after-miserabl ... 23139.html

The play was right after the timeout for the 2 minute warning, so you would think that would have been part of the discussion on the sidelines, that the priority was to keep the clock running and only throw if his receiver was wide open. You might be able to excuse him if he were throwing into a tight window as a first down would have won the game for them, but from the sounds of it, he was throwing the ball away to avoid a sack.

It's getting harder and harder to explain what's going on with Russell.

Here's the play in question, at the 9-minute mark in the linked video. I'd say that it's closer to "He wasn't even close to a target" than "just a little bit off." Bad decision given the circumstances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRpFnKDCHo

[Old but Slow]

I may have misinterpreted what I read. Apparently, the Wilson not starting is the Jet's Wilson, not the Bronco.

[RiverDog]

I may have misinterpreted what I read. Apparently, the Wilson not starting is the Jet's Wilson, not the Bronco.

Ahh, that makes more sense. I, too, heard that Zach Wilson may be benched. There's a lot of people calling for it. Thanks for the correction.

[Hawktawk]

I may have misinterpreted what I read. Apparently, the Wilson not starting is the Jet's Wilson, not the Bronco.

Ahh, that makes more sense. I, too, heard that Zach Wilson may be benched. There's a lot of people calling for it. Thanks for the correction.[/quote]

Ok that I’ve heard and if it’s true good for Robert Saleh . Only think worse then a faded star talking about almost winning with the #1 defense is a punk who never did squat running his mouth . Wilson’s comments about not hurting the defense scoring 3 points …..my guess is he starts though . Too much money and draft capital to fold now . And for who? Joe Flacco ? He’s where Russ is . Mike White is intriguing .I’d love to see Saleh sit this entitled little punk .

[RiverDog]

Ok that I’ve heard and if it’s true good for Robert Saleh . Only think worse then a faded star talking about almost winning with the #1 defense is a punk who never did squat running his mouth . Wilson’s comments about not hurting the defense scoring 3 points …..my guess is he starts though . Too much money and draft capital to fold now . And for who? Joe Flacco ? He’s where Russ is . Mike White is intriguing .I’d love to see Saleh sit this entitled little punk .

That wasn't quite the quote from Wilson, but it was pretty close. He was asked if he felt like he let the defense down and answered a very blunt "No." But it has the same effect, and my understanding is that they're having some locker room issues, and understandably so. His performance alone suggests that he needs some pine time. I doubt that he's with the team next season.

The Jets are one of the teams left on our schedule. They've had a good year up until their loss to the Pats, but who knows what they'll look like by the time we get to them.

[jshawaii22]

Top 5 draft pick in first 2 rounds right now. Do we really care about the details? No! Just keep losing, Baby!

[RiverDog]

Top 5 draft pick in first 2 rounds right now. Do we really care about the details? No! Just keep losing, Baby!

Keep in mind that we also own their #2 pick, so there's a good chance we could end up with 3 picks in the top 40 or better.

Looking ahead, the remainder of the Broncos schedule, in order, are @Carolina, @Baltimore, vs KC, vs AZ, @LAR, @KC, and vs LAC.

[Aseahawkfan]

Keep in mind that we also own their #2 pick, so there's a good chance we could end up with 3 picks in the top 40 or better.

Looking ahead, the remainder of the Broncos schedule, in order, are @Carolina, @Baltimore, vs KC, vs AZ, @LAR, @KC, and vs LAC.

Is it top 5 right now? There are so many bad teams that I'm not sure how it sorts out.

[RiverDog]

Keep in mind that we also own their #2 pick, so there's a good chance we could end up with 3 picks in the top 40 or better.

Looking ahead, the remainder of the Broncos schedule, in order, are @Carolina, @Baltimore, vs KC, vs AZ, @LAR, @KC, and vs LAC.

Is it top 5 right now? There are so many bad teams that I'm not sure how it sorts out.

The Broncos are one of eight teams with 7 losses, and there's three other teams with 8, so it could be anywhere from #4 to #11, depending on tiebreakers that won't exist at the end of the season. It's pretty meaningless to project draft slotting this far out.

[obiken]

He got yelled at yesterday! He is not the same QB that we once loved!

[NorthHawk]

He got yelled at yesterday! He is not the same QB that we once loved!

I heard a former player say he wanted to know what was actually said. He said he’d been through something like it
and it might be a big admonishment or it might be his way of trying to fire up that player. He said it sometimes
looks a lot different than what actually happens.

[RiverDog]

He got yelled at yesterday! He is not the same QB that we once loved!

I heard a former player say he wanted to know what was actually said. He said he’d been through something like it
and it might be a big admonishment or it might be his way of trying to fire up that player. He said it sometimes
looks a lot different than what actually happens.

Of course, Russell is painting his usual smiley face on the confrontation, says that him and Purcell are "on the same page" and that there's "no animosity at all." If you believe that, I have some wonderful ocean side property in North Dakota that I'd like to sell to you.

The Donkeys were beaten convincingly by a below average Panthers club, being held to just 3 points in 56 minutes, their only TD scored during garbage time. They have now lost 3 in a row and 7 of their last 8 games. They're at Baltimore this week then at home against the Chiefs. At this point, they are looking like a 5-12 team which would likely give us a top 5 pick.

We need to start rooting for some of these cellar dwelling teams to start winning. Currently, there are 7 other teams besides the Broncos that have 8 or 9 losses: The Texans, Packers, Rams, Cards, Bears, Panthers, and Saints.

[NorthHawk]

One of the Monday night talking heads said we’re currently with the 4th pick courtesy of the Broncos.
But point well taken.

[RiverDog]

One of the Monday night talking heads said we’re currently with the 4th pick courtesy of the Broncos. But point well taken.

Yeah, it's like projecting playoff seeding this far out. It's an interesting talking point but one without a whole lot of relevance. All I look at are the teams with as many or more losses. Several of those teams still have to play each other. For example, Packers-Bears play next Sunday, so that one will be worth keeping an eye on.

[NorthHawk]

We will also have to consider what those other teams competing for the best draft positions are looking for and what we need as well.
The big question is will the FO think the QB question is settled and pass by one of the better QBs if that chance comes about?
If that should happen, I wouldn't mind if another team traded next years 1st pick plus this years 2nd for the original Denver pick. But that depends on whether the best DL is gone or not.
This years draft looks to me like another building block draft meaning there are a couple of top players early then a lot of guys that will be starters but don't have the same expectation of
being All Pros or perennial Pro Bowlers.

[Hawktawk]

Russel Wilson will be out of the league in a year imo . You don’t fix every single Pff grade of 26 or worse . 31 ranked in accuracy . Salk asked this AM if anyone can think of a more precipitous decline in a HOF type athlete in any sport . Not sure I can . Cam Newton maybe .

The guy is radioactive . No respectable established coach will want to coach him. I’m sure it’s only professional courtesy keeping his teammates from outright mutiny and when the shouting is public it’s close . It’s remarkable on 2 levels . The decline of Wilson off a cliff and what it means for Seattle’s roster . I’m happy with both .

[NorthHawk]

What's his guarantee? Something like $160 Million.
I doubt they cut ties with him so quickly.
He's on a real dysfunctional team and as we've seen in Jacksonville, a proper HC can do a lot to change the direction of the team.
The current Broncos have a rookie HC, rookie OC, and a new QB. They made the big mistake of not playing Wilson in Pre-season, but he may have struggled with the changes anyway.
The bad coaching just made it worse. It's almost like their FO thought "OK, let go of Fangio and add a new team of coaches and a new QB then let them go". It doesn't work that way apparently.

[RiverDog]

What's his guarantee? Something like $160 Million.
I doubt they cut ties with him so quickly.
He's on a real dysfunctional team and as we've seen in Jacksonville, a proper HC can do a lot to change the direction of the team.
The current Broncos have a rookie HC, rookie OC, and a new QB. They made the big mistake of not playing Wilson in Pre-season, but he may have struggled with the changes anyway.
The bad coaching just made it worse. It's almost like their FO thought "OK, let go of Fangio and add a new team of coaches and a new QB then let them go". It doesn't work that way apparently.

It's even harder to tell which teams are going to have what needs than it is what the draft slotting is going to be. The Packers are a great example. They have 8 losses, just like the Donkeys. But is Aaron Rodgers going to be with the team, and if not, are they going to go with Jordan Love? Will the Panthers be in the market for a QB? Do the Bucs trade into the top 5 to snag a QB?.

[NorthHawk]

I think any team that has a question at QB will be looking at moving up if they are in range.
If we re-sign Geno then it could mean another draft pick haul considering what teams are giving up for a high draft pick lately. Even exchanging 1sts often leads to next years 1st.
Like you said, though there are lots of questions to be answered before then beyond the final standings.

[Hawktawk]

What's his guarantee? Something like $160 Million.
I doubt they cut ties with him so quickly.
He's on a real dysfunctional team and as we've seen in Jacksonville, a proper HC can do a lot to change the direction of the team.
The current Broncos have a rookie HC, rookie OC, and a new QB. They made the big mistake of not playing Wilson in Pre-season, but he may have struggled with the changes anyway.
The bad coaching just made it worse. It's almost like their FO thought "OK, let go of Fangio and add a new team of coaches and a new QB then let them go". It doesn't work that way apparently.

Everything I’ve heard is that 2024 is the earliest they can release him without a huge cap hit . He’s getting his 160 regardless . But assuming he plays poorly in the last 6 games are they going to go into 23 with one of the statistically worst starting QBs in the league ? Who will come coach him ? Payton ? Good luck on that . They don’t have the draft capital to pay off NO. Another whiz kid ? Waldron ? Not likely although he is a hot candidate now .

The man has teammates glaring at him , screaming at him . How will free agents view Denver ? Radio hosts calling for his benching , accusing Pete and John of trading damaged goods knowing it . Russ will likely get coach and GM fired in one year . Who is signing up for that ? If they do they will have no allegiance to Russ at all . He won’t be the first athlete with a huge deal sitting on the pine.
No NFL franchise can afford to lose fans and games for years because of a terrible trade . Like a bad marriage . The sooner you pull the plug the better . I don’t see him there beyond 23 .

[RiverDog]

Everything I’ve heard is that 2024 is the earliest they can release him without a huge cap hit . He’s getting his 160 regardless . But assuming he plays poorly in the last 6 games are they going to go into 23 with one of the statistically worst starting QBs in the league ? Who will come coach him ? Payton ? Good luck on that . They don’t have the draft capital to pay off NO. Another whiz kid ? Waldron ? Not likely although he is a hot candidate now .

The man has teammates glaring at him , screaming at him . How will free agents view Denver ? Radio hosts calling for his benching , accusing Pete and John of trading damaged goods knowing it . Russ will likely get coach and GM fired in one year . Who is signing up for that ? If they do they will have no allegiance to Russ at all . He won’t be the first athlete with a huge deal sitting on the pine.
No NFL franchise can afford to lose fans and games for years because of a terrible trade . Like a bad marriage . The sooner you pull the plug the better . I don’t see him there beyond 23 .

The Broncos' out year from Wilson's contract is in 2026:

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/denver-bron ... lson-9885/

They're stuck with him.

But you're right about Denver not being a preferred destination for someone like Payton.

[NorthHawk]

Payton wants to go to a team in a warm climate and he wants full control of personnel so that would rule out
Denver and Dallas. The best fit is Chargerville with Herbert and an already strong core of players.

[RiverDog]

Brandon Staley is in his 2nd year, and at 6-5, the Chargers are still very much in the hunt for the playoffs, especially when you look at some of the teams on their remaining games on their schedule (Raiders, Broncos, Colts, and Rams), plus there's still the issue of giving up draft capital. If they qualify, I can't see them getting rid of him even if it means not signing Payton.

[NorthHawk]

Brandon Staley is in his 2nd year, and at 6-5, the Chargers are still very much in the hunt for the playoffs, especially when you look at some of the teams on their remaining games on their schedule (Raiders, Broncos, Colts, and Rams), plus there's still the issue of giving up draft capital. If they qualify, I can't see them getting rid of him even if it means not signing Payton.

I can easily see it.
They need some good press so why not the most talked about HC who has also won a SB?
Right now they aren’t as relevant as the Rams in LA and Staley has made some strange decisions along the way.
As well, they could be thinking they need an upgrade to get them over the hump and a SB winning coach might not
come around again.

[RiverDog]

Brandon Staley is in his 2nd year, and at 6-5, the Chargers are still very much in the hunt for the playoffs, especially when you look at some of the teams on their remaining games on their schedule (Raiders, Broncos, Colts, and Rams), plus there's still the issue of giving up draft capital. If they qualify, I can't see them getting rid of him even if it means not signing Payton.

I can easily see it.
They need some good press so why not the most talked about HC who has also won a SB?
Right now they aren’t as relevant as the Rams in LA and Staley has made some strange decisions along the way.
As well, they could be thinking they need an upgrade to get them over the hump and a SB winning coach might not
come around again.

Even if they make the playoffs? How many HC's have been fired after their team made the playoffs? You can probably count them on one hand. Of the 8 that lost their jobs last season, not a single team, save for the Raiders who fired Gruden for a non-football incident, made the playoffs. I'll bet you a beer that if the Chargers make the playoffs, Staley keeps his job.

[RiverDog]

Interesting article about Hackett, Russell, and the Broncos. It pretty much feeds into Hawktawk's narrative:

Broncos Decision Makers ‘On Notice’ as NFL Execs Paint Ugly Picture of Future

Sunday’s Week 12 loss was emblematic of what has plagued Denver’s broken offense all season, despite Hackett’s arrival in the Mile High City being hailed as the coach to finally fix that side of the football. Russell Wilson was held to 142 yards, as the Broncos averaged only 3.3 yards per pass play.

An AFC South scouting director didn’t hold back when it comes to how the Broncos should handle Hackett.

"Cut your losses,” the scouting director told Heavy. “No way of overcoming this season. I like George [Paton] but he made this hire and trade for Wilson which puts him on notice.”

Wilson shares an equal portion of the blame for the Broncos’ 3-8 start.

The veteran quarterback simply has been miscast in Hackett’s system. Wilson is currently listed as Pro Football Focus’ No. 32 ranked starting quarterback, having completed a career-low 59.5% of his passes for 2,227 yards with 7 touchdowns to 5 interceptions.

Wilson’s season has been disastrous and has the chance to torpedo the Broncos’ future.

“[Wilson] looks done,” the scouting director said. “But they are married to
him. So they need to build around him for next year. But good luck getting free agents.”

Paton — or whoever is the general manager this winter — and the Broncos could be facing a dark reality. With just $13 million in cap space, a myriad of needs, and an aging quarterback who is rapidly declining with no end to his descent in sight, finding an upgrade over Hackett may prove challenging.

“Remember, none of the really good candidates will want that job,” the scouting director said.

Sunday exposed just how far away the Broncos are. Fixing them might prove daunting.

https://heavy.com/sports/denver-broncos ... ng-rumors/

As Nancy Sinatra once said, "And the beat goes on."

[NorthHawk]

Even if they make the playoffs? How many HC's have been fired after their team made the playoffs? You can probably count them on one hand. Of the 8 that lost their jobs last season, not a single team, save for the Raiders who fired Gruden for a non-football incident, made the playoffs. I'll bet you a beer that if the Chargers make the playoffs, Staley keeps his job.

Yes, even if they make the playoffs.
The chance to land a big fish doesn’t come around that often.

[Hawktawk]

]

Even if they make the playoffs? How many HC's have been fired after their team made the playoffs? You can probably count them on one hand. Of the 8 that lost their jobs last season, not a single team, save for the Raiders who fired Gruden for a non-football incident, made the playoffs. I'll bet you a beer that if the Chargers make the playoffs, Staley keeps his job.

Yes, even if they make the playoffs.
The chance to land a big fish doesn’t come around that often.[/quote]

Payton won one super bowl with first round lock HOF Brees in 15 years together . That was in 2009. Since then he got smoked by Carroll in beast quake and beaten in most significant matchups with Seattle since . They got robbed of another super bowl on the worst refuse to call obvious penalty in history . Still . Why does anyone think this guy is any better option than the next guy ? He’s not belicheat

[Aseahawkfan]

Payton won one super bowl with first round lock HOF Brees in 15 years together . That was in 2009. Since then he got smoked by Carroll in beast quake and beaten in most significant matchups with Seattle since . They got robbed of another super bowl on the worst refuse to call obvious penalty in history . Still . Why does anyone think this guy is any better option than the next guy ? He’s not belicheat

No one is Bill. No one will likely be Bill again. The man has 8 total rings. Six as head coach. Two as DC of the Giants. That is nuts.

[RiverDog]

No one is comparing Payton to Belichick, Carroll, or any other current or former coach. He is by far the most notable head coach that is currently on the market. No other potential candidate can hold a candle to what he's accomplished. I just have a hard time believing that a team not named the Dallas Cowboys that makes the playoffs would fire their 2nd year head coach and give up some significant draft capital to sign him. If it did, it would be a very rare event.

Each year, there's roughly 6-8 teams that are in the market for a new head coach. This season, we've already had two firings currently being filled by interim coaches. They compete with each other for the top candidates. In a business where it's win now with impatient fan bases and owners, it's essential that a new coach do well within his first few years. That's the point I was making in my previous remarks, that the Broncos have painted themselves into a corner with the Russell Wilson trade and subsequent contract, and if they decide to part ways with Hackett, that finding an upgrade might be problematic.

[Hawktawk]

No one is comparing Payton to Belichick, Carroll, or any other current or former coach. He is by far the most notable head coach that is currently on the market. No other potential candidate can hold a candle to what he's accomplished. I just have a hard time believing that a team not named the Dallas Cowboys that makes the playoffs would fire their 2nd year head coach and give up some significant draft capital to sign him. If it did, it would be a very rare event.

Each year, there's roughly 6-8 teams that are in the market for a new head coach. This season, we've already had two firings currently being filled by interim coaches. They compete with each other for the top candidates. In a business where it's win now with impatient fan bases and owners, it's essential that a new coach do well within his first few years. That's the point I was making in my previous remarks, that the Broncos have painted themselves into a corner with the Russell Wilson trade and subsequent contract, and if they decide to part ways with Hackett, that finding an upgrade might be problematic.

Sometimes coaches get fired for stuff that out of their control. Chargers brought in Kalil Mack to bookend with Joey Bosa and hes out for the year. Injuries up and down the roster. Herbert himself was hurt for a few games. Right now there's 6 weeks left so anything can happen but barring a collapse I see the job as safe. Speaking of chargers what was Schottenheimer the year they fired him after his players lost poise and blew a sure trip to the super bowl. What were they? 14-2? 13-3? Dumbest thing I ever saw and they never recovered.

No coach is going to want to go to Denver and be told to fix Wilson. No coach wants player picked for him unless they are the best. Talk about schematic issues all you want. I've watched him miss wide open guys, miss seeing them, miss hot reads. His career worst completion % 59 is not a scheme issue. hes simply missing passes.
Dude is olded out. Washed up.
Some saw it sooner than others, thank goodness John was one. Nobody saw this really. Think about this. Geno Smith has about a 14% higher passer rating at over 72% despite being knocked around quite a bit. Carson Wendz hasn't played since week 6 and has 10 TD passes, 3 more than Russ in 11 games.
We had some spirited debates in here about whether Geno could hold a candle to Russ as a starter.
If Russ was still here he would be on the bench watching Geno by now.

[NorthHawk]

Payton won one super bowl with first round lock HOF Brees in 15 years together . That was in 2009. Since then he got smoked by Carroll in beast quake and beaten in most significant matchups with Seattle since . They got robbed of another super bowl on the worst refuse to call obvious penalty in history . Still . Why does anyone think this guy is any better option than the next guy ? He’s not belicheat

Are there any other coaches out there that have won a SB and are available? I really don't know but I haven't heard of many. As well, as I said before they are in a competitive market with a high profile team in the Rams
so they would want to raise their profile to prospective fans. A high profile Coach who has won at the NFL level would be very enticing for ownership. It puts some of the spotlight onto them and away from the Rams.
With the Rams doing poorly, it would be a great time to steal the limelight and have a coach with a solid background.

[Hawktawk]

I think Payton is a very goof coach , borderline great . I have him below Carroll but ahead of lots of guys . He had a superior qb for 15 years in a pretty down division lots of that time . But sure he’s a really good smart coach . Just saying he hasn’t brought home the bacon or even gone back in 14 years now . People want Pete fired and he was back to back 8 years ago . It’s just a disconnect . How many guys got rings 2 places? Has anyone ? As HC?
It’s a crapshoot and hard to do .

[RiverDog]

I think Payton is a very goof coach , borderline great . I have him below Carroll but ahead of lots of guys . He had a superior qb for 15 years in a pretty down division lots of that time . But sure he’s a really good smart coach . Just saying he hasn’t brought home the bacon or even gone back in 14 years now . People want Pete fired and he was back to back 8 years ago . It’s just a disconnect . How many guys got rings 2 places? Has anyone ? As HC?
It’s a crapshoot and hard to do .

The other thing that enters into the equation is that Payton is thought of, at least in some circles, as a quarterback whisperer, having brought Drew Brees along from a borderline start to his career and helped him achieve HOF status, and the hope would be that he could do the same for someone like Hebert. There's no other coach that's available with anything close to what Payton has on his resume.

[RiverDog]

The NFL has flexed the originally scheduled Week 14 Chiefs-Broncos game out of SNF in lieu of Chargers-Dolphins:

After the Broncos signed Russell Wilson, the NFL scheduled them for five primetime games. They have played four of those, but with a 3-8 record and the worst scoring offense in the league, the Broncos won’t play the fifth.

The NFL flexed out of the Week 14 game between the Chiefs and Broncos on Sunday Night Football.

Instead, the Dolphins and Chargers will play on Sunday Night Football on Dec. 11. Kickoff is set for 8:20 p.m. ET.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... n-week-14/

Suffice it to say that even the league had their expectations dashed.

I was actually looking forward to watching the Donkeys play again in Prime Time, but I guess the rest of the nation doesn't give a rip about where our draft picks might land.

[Agent 86]

Has this been brought up yet in this thread? If true, what a shot by Gordon to Russ! I know Gordon had his fumbling issues which were a major concern, but I do wonder if Russ had anything to do with his release as well.

BREAKING: Multiple sources indicate that after last night's OT loss to the #Raiders, Former #Broncos RB Melvin Gordon loudly played several songs by Hip Hop artist 'Future' in the #Broncos Locker Room.

QB Russell Willson reportedly demanded his immediate release that same night

For those that don't know, Future is an American rapper that was engaged to Ciara and they had a kid together before she got together with Russ. I think most know who he is from when Russ played in Seattle.

What a disaster in Denver!!