Russell Wilson

[RiverDog]

Back to Russell and the Donks.

As it stands now, the Texans have the worst record with just one win. The Broncos, Rams, and Bears have 3 wins while the Cards, Saints, Panthers, Jags, and Colts have 4 wins. That's our competition for a top 10 draft slot. Here's the remaining schedule for those teams:

3 wins or fewer:

Texans: Cowboys, Chiefs, Titans, Jags, and Colts.
Rams: Raiders, Packers, Broncos, Chargers, Seahawks.
Bears: Eagles, Bills, Lions, Vikings.

4 wins:

Cards: Pats, Broncos, Bucs, Falcons, Niners.
Saints: Bucs, Falcons, Browns, Eagles, Panthers.
Panthers: Seahawks, Steelers, Lions, Bucs, Saints.
Jags: Titans, Cowboys, Jets, Texans, Titans.
Colts: Vikings, Chargers, Giants, Texans.

And, of course, the Broncos:

Chiefs, Cards, Rams, Chiefs, Chargers.

The Texans look to have a lock on the #1 overall. The Bears have one winnable game, vs. the Lions. The Rams and Broncos have to play each other.

Just by looking at the schedules, the best we can hope for is the #3 overall if we assume that the Donkeys lose out or win just once. Realistically, they're probably going to win one or two games, so I'm thinking that we'll end up with a draft slot somewhere between #5 and #8.

The Saints play the Bucs on MNF tonight, so we need to get out our Bucs voodoo doll and start poking pins into it. Go Saints!

[NorthHawk]

Back to Russell and the Donks.

As it stands now, the Texans have the worst record with just one win. The Broncos, Rams, and Bears have 3 wins while the Cards, Saints, Panthers, Jags, and Colts have 4 wins. That's our competition for a top 10 draft slot. Here's the remaining schedule for those teams:

3 wins or fewer:

Texans: Cowboys, Chiefs, Titans, Jags, and Colts.
Rams: Raiders, Packers, Broncos, Chargers, Seahawks.
Bears: Eagles, Bills, Lions, Vikings.

4 wins:

Cards: Pats, Broncos, Bucs, Falcons, Niners.
Saints: Bucs, Falcons, Browns, Eagles, Panthers.
Panthers: Seahawks, Steelers, Lions, Bucs, Saints.
Jags: Titans, Cowboys, Jets, Texans, Titans.
Colts: Vikings, Chargers, Giants, Texans.

And, of course, the Broncos:

Chiefs, Cards, Rams, Chiefs.

The Texans look to have a lock on the #1 overall. The Bears have one winnable game, vs. the Lions. The Rams and Broncos have to play each other.

Just by looking at the schedules, the best we can hope for is the #3 overall if we assume that the Donkeys lose out or win just once. Realistically, they're probably going to win one or two games, so I'm thinking that we'll end up with a draft slot somewhere between #5 and #8.

The Saints play the Bucs on MNF tonight, so we need to get out our Bucs voodoo doll and start poking pins into it. Go Saints!

The Rams pick belongs to Detroit.
So 2 teams need QBs - the Bears are set for at least a few years.
That should leave us with a good choice of DL should there be one who would be worthy of the 3rd or 4th pick although I think we will end up with the 5th to 7th overall selection from Denver.

Edit:
The Broncos remaining schedule is
KC at home
Cards at home
at LA Rams
At KC
Chargers at home

[RiverDog]

The Rams pick belongs to Detroit.
So 2 teams need QBs - the Bears are set for at least a few years.
That should leave us with a good choice of DL should there be one who would be worthy of the 3rd or 4th pick although I think we will end up with the 5th to 7th overall selection from Denver.

Edit:
The Broncos remaining schedule is
KC at home
Cards at home
at LA Rams
At KC
Chargers at home

s

Thanks for the correction on the Broncos schedule. I edited my post.

The other thing to keep an eye on is some possible QB-hungry teams below us that might be willing to trade a boatload of picks to move up to our spot, teams like the Colts, Falcons, Saints, Lions, Commanders, maybe even the Vikings.

[NorthHawk]

With Geno playing as well as he has it takes some pressure off of getting the best QB from the draft.
A boatload could be in the cards if you think what SF paid a few years ago to move just a few spots for Lance. It would depend on how this QB class is rated, though.
Maybe something like next years 1st plus this years 2nd or 3rd along with trading 1st round picks, so we keep 2 firsts and add a first next year and a 3rd this year.

[RiverDog]

With Geno playing as well as he has it takes some pressure off of getting the best QB from the draft.
A boatload could be in the cards if you think what SF paid a few years ago to move just a few spots for Lance. It would depend on how this QB class is rated, though.
Maybe something like next years 1st plus this years 2nd or 3rd along with trading 1st round picks, so we keep 2 firsts and add a first next year and a 3rd this year.

It also depends on how many teams are wanting to move up, if we could play one offer against another.

I was thinking of what the Niners gave up to draft Lance, too. Three first round picks to move up 9 spots. They won't have a first round pick until 2024. I'd jump on that offer like a chicken on a June bug.

There's always some movement of veteran QB's. Lamar Jackson is without a contract. Will Tom Brady return for another season? Or how about Marc Wilson of the Jets, will they decide to trade him? And what about Jimmy G.? Will Aaron Rodgers force his way out of Titletown? Or Murray out of the desert?

All of that will be things we'll want to keep an eye on.

[NorthHawk]

There seems to be more doubt about QBs this year than most.
Brady rumors of going back to NE- or maybe SF to finish his career.
Will Rodgers even return next year after this disaster?
Lamar Jackson is a wild card and the Colts are going to move on from Ryan.
Murray has a big contract but if Kingsbury is canned, will a new coach want Murray?
SF might want to move on from Lance, but it would be a bold move after giving up so much.
Zach Wilson is another player with his future in doubt but they might want to see if he matures and can beat out White.

[I-5]

Niners giving up 3 first round picks to move up 9 spots is the most insane thing I've ever seen, for a player who doesn't look that great imo. But if someone were to offer the same for the rights to our pick, I can easily see Schneider doing just that. Who wouldn't? I agree that with Geno playing the way he is, we don't need to spend high draft capital on a QB, unless one of the good ones falls to us at our second or third pick, which is highly possible.

[RiverDog]

Niners giving up 3 first round picks to move up 9 spots is the most insane thing I've ever seen, for a player who doesn't look that great imo. But if someone were to offer the same for the rights to our pick, I can easily see Schneider doing just that. Who wouldn't? I agree that with Geno playing the way he is, we don't need to spend high draft capital on a QB, unless one of the good ones falls to us at our second or third pick, which is highly possible.

I agree. The Broncos trading for Russell wasn't nearly as insane as the Niners trading 3 first rounders and a 3rd rounder to move up 9 slots. Heck, Lance might have fell to them at #12.

We'll have to wait and see about Geno. He's a free agent after this year, and who knows what the market will be or if we're going to be willing to pay it.

Anyhow, the Russell trade has contributed to a whole lot of drama that's unfolding now and will continue to unfold right up until the draft.

[Hawktawk]

The broncos surrendering the players 2 of which are helping Seattle , draft capital and worst signing a cap crushing irrevocable guaranteed contract for the worst qb in the league is not as bad as the 9ers moving up to get Lance ?

Really ?

For one 9ers are still considered a top 5 nfc team minus JG or Lance . #2 Lance was lost to injury , not a washout due to a lack of talent . Reports out of TC were that he was extremely explosive running the offense . I think with a healthy guy like Lance with dual threat explosive mobility they would be even scarier .

Russel was the subject of one of the worst trades in history and what’s called the worst contract in pro sports history . They are stuck with a guy who can’t play for at least another year and probably more due to the astronomical cap hit .

The 9ers moving up isn’t even on the same planet as the Wilson deal.
I swear sometimes you guys are trolling me . You can’t possibly believe what you are saying .

[Aseahawkfan]

There are a lot of stupid trades. I still think us trading two firsts for Jamal Adams was stupid. Denver is getting screwed as bad as they are because Russ fell off a cliff, broke his arm, and can't seem to even play at a bare minimum level of effectiveness. I can't say Trey is any better in Frisco. The guy isn't even playing. He's terrible as well.

So far the Gold Standard for trades is still the Cowboys trade. Multiple Hall of Famers from that trade. No one has been able to spin that kind of gold from a trade I can recall.

[Hawktawk]

We are being called closest to that cowboys deal after our draft haul . As for Lance we don’t know . I think he’s had 2 or 3 starts and got hurt plus they had a proven vet on the roster .

The Adams deal looks horrible . Because he’s hurt again . But was a difference maker on the field . I’d rather have a coach go might overreach trying to get better . I think with Adams healthy our defense is a different conversation. If . Injuries suck . Great players like Adams and Penny being cursed is maddening .

Our qb is at the top of his game but getting hit a lot too . We’re a play away from Drew Lock . But look around the league and see who has that solid an option off the bench ? Pete talks about how Hard he works and how he’s nipping at Genos heels . We may already have our starter for the next couple years and our QBOTF getting coached up like Geno did . Not a bad situation.

[Hawktawk]

Niners giving up 3 first round picks to move up 9 spots is the most insane thing I've ever seen, for a player who doesn't look that great imo. But if someone were to offer the same for the rights to our pick, I can easily see Schneider doing just that. Who wouldn't? I agree that with Geno playing the way he is, we don't need to spend high draft capital on a QB, unless one of the good ones falls to us at our second or third pick, which is highly possible.

Pete has proven he can develop unconventional quarterbacks without burning top draft capital . No more so than Geno who leads the league in multi TD games , games over 100qbr, games over 70% completions. He’s on a pace for mid 30 TDs and over 4500 yards and he’s really played the same since he went 98 on the rams last season 15 games ago .

Take NO qb . Give Geno 2 years at 32 million and keep developing Lock . Shore up both lines , spend the rest on defense , safety , linebacker . We have as good of corner play as anyone . Resign Penny . Win the super bowl.

[RiverDog]

There are a lot of stupid trades. I still think us trading two firsts for Jamal Adams was stupid. Denver is getting screwed as bad as they are because Russ fell off a cliff, broke his arm, and can't seem to even play at a bare minimum level of effectiveness. I can't say Trey is any better in Frisco. The guy isn't even playing. He's terrible as well.

So far the Gold Standard for trades is still the Cowboys trade. Multiple Hall of Famers from that trade. No one has been able to spin that kind of gold from a trade I can recall.

Yeah, the Herschel Walker trade. Part of that deal was Jerry Jones playing the Browns (I believe) against the Vikings, driving up the market for him. For all the criticism I've directed at Jerry Jones, pulling off the Herschel Walker trade isn't one of them. That was as masterful of a piece of poker playing that I've ever seen in professional sports. That's what I was alluding to when I mentioned having a couple teams competing for the pick.

But we have to keep in mind that what made the trade so great is how the Cowboys utilized those picks. We don't know that about the Russell Wilson trade or even the Jamal Adams trade. Next season, Russell could turn things around, win the MVP and SB MVP while the Broncos take home a Lombardi. But it sure looks good at this point.

[Hawktawk]

Yeah, the Herschel Walker trade. Part of that deal was Jerry Jones playing the Browns (I believe) against the Vikings, driving up the market for him. For all the criticism I've directed at Jerry Jones, pulling off the Herschel Walker trade isn't one of them. That was as masterful of a piece of poker playing that I've ever seen in professional sports. That's what I was alluding to when I mentioned having a couple teams competing for the pick.

But we have to keep in mind that what made the trade so great is how the Cowboys utilized those picks. We don't know that about the Russell Wilson trade or even the Jamal Adams trade. Next season, Russell could turn things around, win the MVP and SB MVP while the Broncos take home a Lombardi. But it sure looks good at this point.

Do you seriously think Russ could win SB MVP next year???????? its far more likely he winds up on the pine next year. DENVER MEDIA is already running over the varied scenarios to replace him or bring in some real competition.
Dude is SHOT. He will never make the postseason again as a starting QB. Adams has a higher chance of coming back but I wouldnt bet a plugged nickel on either.

[Aseahawkfan]

Yeah, the Herschel Walker trade. Part of that deal was Jerry Jones playing the Browns (I believe) against the Vikings, driving up the market for him. For all the criticism I've directed at Jerry Jones, pulling off the Herschel Walker trade isn't one of them. That was as masterful of a piece of poker playing that I've ever seen in professional sports. That's what I was alluding to when I mentioned having a couple teams competing for the pick.

But we have to keep in mind that what made the trade so great is how the Cowboys utilized those picks. We don't know that about the Russell Wilson trade or even the Jamal Adams trade. Next season, Russell could turn things around, win the MVP and SB MVP while the Broncos take home a Lombardi. But it sure looks good at this point.

It does matter how we use the trade, but regardless Russell's ineffectiveness is going to give us a high draft pick that Pete and John would really have to screw up to miss. They would have to draft another Aaron Curry or Rick Mirer to waste that pick. I'm pretty sure Pete and John will make a high pick work real well myself, but we will see.

Jimmy orchestrated that Walker trade. I give Jimmy the credit for it myself. His draft chart and his ability to evaluate talent. I don't give Jerry the credit for the Walker trade. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade

Jimmy Johnson built the 90s Cowboys. I'll never forgive Jerry Jones for getting rid of Jimmy when he was about to go for a threepeat. I truly believe Dallas would have three-peated if Jerry hadn't gotten rid of Jimmy because his idiot ass couldn't see he had gold at head coach.

I was a big Cowboys fan growing up. Cowboys and Seahawks were my teams. Staubach and Landry were awesome. When Jones canned Jimmy Johnson, I hated Jerry Jones. I still don't like him and probably never will. I can't root for the Cowboys while Jones owns them. His Cowboys have been nothing since Jimmy left. Jerry won one last Super Bowl with Jimmy's team and Switzer the lapdog as his head coach, but Jimmy built the 90s Cowboys. That was his team. Jerry never built a damn thing without Jimmy.

[Aseahawkfan]

Do you seriously think Russ could win SB MVP next year???????? its far more likely he winds up on the pine next year. DENVER MEDIA is already running over the varied scenarios to replace him or bring in some real competition.
Dude is SHOT. He will never make the postseason again as a starting QB. Adams has a higher chance of coming back but I wouldnt bet a plugged nickel on either.

I don't know if he could win a SB MVP. But the kind of fall he has had means something other than just moving teams is going on with him. I can't help but think the coaching over there is really bad at preparing the offense for winning games. Someone is not diagnosing opposing defenses well and creating a good game plan. I suppose the Denver offensive players could be that bad, but I doubt it. We've seen Russ even in his worst years play far better than this. This year is so bad for Russ that the only thing worse would be him getting injured where he couldn't play at all.

If the Denver GM and ownership want to get something turned around, the head coach has to go. They have to bring someone in that can get that ship turned around and Hackett isn't that guy. I can't imagine Russ playing that badly without some injury he isn't talking about and coaching preparation that must be total garbage.

I can see some drop off from age and a new offense, but this is an insane drop off. Something is going on there.

[Hawktawk]

Asea my man he won 6 here in 14 starts last year …… I gave credit for the finger for the diminished performance last year and I’m not convinced it’s not still an issue with accuracy . But he’s missing open reads or missing throws to open guys . Hacketts a joke , we both figured it out pre season but I gotta say it’s a plane crash . They are looking for the black boxes . I feel bad for my buddies who are huge Denver fans . They were so exited and I told them what I told you all but I do feel bad .
All over the respect for Jimmy and hatred of Jerry . When you have so much talent you win a championship with idiot Switzer imagine a decade with Johnson . I hate Jones . What a revolting person .

[Aseahawkfan]

Asea my man he won 6 here in 14 starts last year …… I gave credit for the finger for the diminished performance last year and I’m not convinced it’s not still an issue with accuracy . But he’s missing open reads or missing throws to open guys . Hacketts a joke , we both figured it out pre season but I gotta say it’s a plane crash . They are looking for the black boxes . I feel bad for my buddies who are huge Denver fans . They were so exited and I told them what I told you all but I do feel bad .
All over the respect for Jimmy and hatred of Jerry . When you have so much talent you win a championship with idiot Switzer imagine a decade with Johnson . I hate Jones . What a revolting person .

That's just it. Even with a damaged finger, his worst year, six wins, he didn't play as bad as he is playing in Denver. It's so terrible that it's hard to explain. His worst year was never 8 TDs to 5 ints. His rookie year wasn't that bad. His injury year wasn't that bad. He's never in the past ten years performed this badly for 12 games. It's almost unheard of absent an injury. I can't think of the last QB I saw fall off this hard by switching teams absent getting hurt.

[RiverDog]

Yeah, the Herschel Walker trade. Part of that deal was Jerry Jones playing the Browns (I believe) against the Vikings, driving up the market for him. For all the criticism I've directed at Jerry Jones, pulling off the Herschel Walker trade isn't one of them. That was as masterful of a piece of poker playing that I've ever seen in professional sports. That's what I was alluding to when I mentioned having a couple teams competing for the pick.

But we have to keep in mind that what made the trade so great is how the Cowboys utilized those picks. We don't know that about the Russell Wilson trade or even the Jamal Adams trade. Next season, Russell could turn things around, win the MVP and SB MVP while the Broncos take home a Lombardi. But it sure looks good at this point.

Do you seriously think Russ could win SB MVP next year???????? its far more likely he winds up on the pine next year. DENVER MEDIA is already running over the varied scenarios to replace him or bring in some real competition.
Dude is SHOT. He will never make the postseason again as a starting QB. Adams has a higher chance of coming back but I wouldnt bet a plugged nickel on either.

I never said that I thought Russell could win a SB MVP next year. Personally, I think that he has two chances: Slim and none. My point was that the trade isn't 'over' until he's out of the league.

The media can run as many scenarios as they want to replace Russell. It's good for business as it's a great story and I'm sure that it attracts a lot of hits. But Russell isn't going anywhere, and unless they want a 1/4 billion dollar clip board holder, he's their QB for the next 3 seasons.

[trents]

Pete has proven he can develop unconventional quarterbacks without burning top draft capital . No more so than Geno who leads the league in multi TD games , games over 100qbr, games over 70% completions. He’s on a pace for mid 30 TDs and over 4500 yards and he’s really played the same since he went 98 on the rams last season 15 games ago

In what sense is Geno unconventional?

[obiken]

In what sense is Geno unconventional?

He doesnt do anything well. He is not super accurate, and is not a super scrambler, this year he has done enough of both to play well but not be even close to be elite. Look at the Raider game.

[Hawktawk]

Pete has proven he can develop unconventional quarterbacks without burning top draft capital . No more so than Geno who leads the league in multi TD games , games over 100qbr, games over 70% completions. He’s on a pace for mid 30 TDs and over 4500 yards and he’s really played the same since he went 98 on the rams last season 15 games ago

In what sense is Geno unconventional?[/quote]

Dug off the scrap heap . Gannon . As everyone pointed out to me when I said he might do just fine , nobody else wanted him . What is that crazy old fool thinking?

Geno possibly wouldn’t be in the league . Especially after a DUI . The dude is playing at elite franchise level . Lots of ball to play but it’s as crazy a story as I’ve seen in the league .

[NorthHawk]

He's playing well. Not at elite franchise level, but pretty well.
Is he a product of the system that Waldron has put in? Is Geno just having one of those freak great years some players have?
Is he just really good and has found his niche in the NFL?
We won't really know for a year or two when we look back.

[RiverDog]

Back to topic.

I read an interesting article about other quarterbacks that have had a dip in performance during their early 30's that bounced back, along with a good break down of the Broncos/Wilson's problems that I thought was worth sharing. Some excerpts:

Wilson’s 2022 campaign is on pace to have between a 25% and 30% drop-off from his best all-time season. That is not unprecedented, as 12 legendary quarterbacks had the same thing happen. What came after these historic drop-offs is what analysts and fans can bicker over, depending on their level of optimism.

...there are several quarterbacks in the past who had the 30-to-34-year-old dip in production only to bounce back with a Top 400 season. There are three that have very similar careers to Wilson: Bart Starr, Roman Gabriel, and John Hadl.

The next set of quarterbacks with middle-aged dips is important to recognize, even if their earlier careers weren’t a great comparison to Wilson. Brett Favre, Fran Tarkenton, and Len Dawson had better careers early on, but all suffered that same dip only to return with stellar seasons.

Kurt Warner (not on the graph) had a late start and a very choppy career, but he also rebounded from an awful stint with the New York Giants. It is not unheard of for great quarterbacks to rebound from poor seasons. Wilson could be one of those players.

Elway had one great season at age 27, but the rest of his campaigns were mediocre to poor. Then he turned 33 and had the greatest season of his career, followed by five more Top 400 seasons. He is the only quarterback in history to accomplish this feat.

Even if Hackett's offensive scheme was a good fit, the unit had no real play time to get started, and then injuries became a heavy burden. Throw most quarterbacks into that situation, and they are going to have a difficult time. This does not absolve Wilson entirely. He has to take responsibility for the bulk of the issues.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/bro ... fl-history

Regardless of how you feel about Russell, it's a good, objective look at both the history of QB's in his predicament and analysis of his problems in Denver. Bottom line is that I don't think we can write off Russell as a hopelessly lost cause.

[NorthHawk]

I think that's a valid viewpoint. It might work out to be true, but as long as he doesn't find his game this year all will be well in my book.
I would expect in the next few years there will be some more information about how the Broncos were run after the Hackett signing and the mistakes that were made.
At this point though it almost seems like everyone is piling on top of Wilson instead of trying to be objective like this writer.

[RiverDog]

I think that's a valid viewpoint. It might work out to be true, but as long as he doesn't find his game this year all will be well in my book.
I would expect in the next few years there will be some more information about how the Broncos were run after the Hackett signing and the mistakes that were made.
At this point though it almost seems like everyone is piling on top of Wilson instead of trying to be objective like this writer.

I agree completely, especially with your last sentence. Russell is like a pinata at a kid's birthday party, with everyone taking a swing at him trying to get the candy inside.

I have to admit to being somewhat mesmerized and highly entertained by the drama, which is why you see me commenting about it so often. It's part of what to this point has been a very interesting football season.

[Hawktawk]

Back to topic.

I read an interesting article about other quarterbacks that have had a dip in performance during their early 30's that bounced back, along with a good break down of the Broncos/Wilson's problems that I thought was worth sharing. Some excerpts:

Wilson’s 2022 campaign is on pace to have between a 25% and 30% drop-off from his best all-time season. That is not unprecedented, as 12 legendary quarterbacks had the same thing happen. What came after these historic drop-offs is what analysts and fans can bicker over, depending on their level of optimism.

...there are several quarterbacks in the past who had the 30-to-34-year-old dip in production only to bounce back with a Top 400 season. There are three that have very similar careers to Wilson: Bart Starr, Roman Gabriel, and John Hadl.

The next set of quarterbacks with middle-aged dips is important to recognize, even if their earlier careers weren’t a great comparison to Wilson. Brett Favre, Fran Tarkenton, and Len Dawson had better careers early on, but all suffered that same dip only to return with stellar seasons.

Kurt Warner (not on the graph) had a late start and a very choppy career, but he also rebounded from an awful stint with the New York Giants. It is not unheard of for great quarterbacks to rebound from poor seasons. Wilson could be one of those players.

Elway had one great season at age 27, but the rest of his campaigns were mediocre to poor. Then he turned 33 and had the greatest season of his career, followed by five more Top 400 seasons. He is the only quarterback in history to accomplish this feat.

Even if Hackett's offensive scheme was a good fit, the unit had no real play time to get started, and then injuries became a heavy burden. Throw most quarterbacks into that situation, and they are going to have a difficult time. This does not absolve Wilson entirely. He has to take responsibility for the bulk of the issues.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/bro ... fl-history

Regardless of how you feel about Russell, it's a good, objective look at both the history of QB's in his predicament and analysis of his problems in Denver. Bottom line is that I don't think we can write off Russell as a hopelessly lost cause.

Interesting most of the guys listed are dead or dying or out of the league 20 plus years. None were this bad. Not this bad and they played in different eras generations removed from today. Different rules and more patience with franchises with players then now.
Warner is the closest thing to Russ in my book. Benched for Bulger and then for Eli.HIT TOO MUCH.

The symptoms are classic. Drop in accuracy. Eyes on the rush not the field. Missing open receiver,hot reads line checks.Hearing footsteps and bailing on clean pockets. Sound like anyone? Its usually permanent. Watch film of most greats in their final appearances.

Warner did pull out of that flat spin.

Im old enough to remember all the guys listed here and Id say one is built like Russ with his kind of game. Tarkington.
But Wendz who hasn't played since week 6 has 10 TDs. Russ has 8. 1 in the last SEVEN GAMES. And tall guys can adapt to be pure pocket passers and extend their career. Short guys need mobility. I've seen no indication Russ has tried to do anything other than play ratball.
I think hes toast. Nobody worth their salt such as Sean Payton is going there to be told to fix him, be tied to him. Not a chance. Maybe another boy wonder looking for a shot and Russ will chew him up and spit him out like he did Hackett . What they need to do is bring in a free agent or someone in the draft that they feel can provide a legitimate option to Russ as the starter. If he weren't 160 million russ he'd be on the pine already, long ago.

May as well keep Hackett. Your not getting Waldron Run him out there and if he keeps sucking bench his ass. He's far and away the biggest problem. Lock averaged 20 PPG there, Bridgewater too.
Hes not coming back.
As for Elway his career resurgence coincided with the arrival of one MR Terrell Davis along with the red lobster Shanahan and a nasty defense. Ed McCaffrey etc. Also a down division much of that time but champions beat their division down. Its why hes in the HOF even though hes a jackass.

[Hawktawk]

I think that's a valid viewpoint. It might work out to be true, but as long as he doesn't find his game this year all will be well in my book.
I would expect in the next few years there will be some more information about how the Broncos were run after the Hackett signing and the mistakes that were made.
At this point though it almost seems like everyone is piling on top of Wilson instead of trying to be objective like this writer.

I agree completely, especially with your last sentence. Russell is like a pinata at a kid's birthday party, with everyone taking a swing at him trying to get the candy inside.

I have to admit to being somewhat mesmerized and highly entertained by the drama, which is why you see me commenting about it so often. It's part of what to this point has been a very interesting football season.[/quote]

The writers grasping at straws. He was probably all over the trade like a hobo on a ham sandwich. CYA
I try to muster sympathy for Russ and I can't. Everyone knows what my sense was from early on. He's been exposed for a certain phoniness, also the myth of how hard Russ works is taking a big hit too. How much of the reason he was for the success or lack of it last few years.
A quarterback away and they didn't get all beat up for a few weeks either. Remember? Hackett was gonna unlock the key to Wilsons greatness.

This is on Russ. They would have 8 wins with Drew Lock and that defense. we would be 10-2 with that defense, maybe 11-1.
Bad.

[TriCitySam]

I railed a long long time ago about the influence of Jake Heaps, how it was disrespectful to the Hawks coaching staff - and that he was pushing the “Let Russ Cook” line......now I see the media has picked up on it as it relates to RW performance.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... uiMre2DS9m

[RiverDog]

I railed a long long time ago about the influence of Jake Heaps, how it was disrespectful to the Hawks coaching staff - and that he was pushing the “Let Russ Cook” line......now I see the media has picked up on it as it relates to RW performance.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... uiMre2DS9m

I hadn't heard that about Heaps. I knew that he and Russell were good buddies, but I didn't realize that he had hired on as Russell's personal coach and that the Broncos allow him in the training facility. Thanks for the link.

Didn't Brady ruffle some feathers when he hired his own personal trainer and insisted that he go with him on road trips?

[Hawktawk]

I railed a long long time ago about the influence of Jake Heaps, how it was disrespectful to the Hawks coaching staff - and that he was pushing the “Let Russ Cook” line......now I see the media has picked up on it as it relates to RW performance.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... uiMre2DS9m

Yeah saw this . Same crap different town . Thank the lord he’s not our problem .

[RiverDog]

I railed a long long time ago about the influence of Jake Heaps, how it was disrespectful to the Hawks coaching staff - and that he was pushing the “Let Russ Cook” line......now I see the media has picked up on it as it relates to RW performance.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... uiMre2DS9m

Yeah saw this . Same crap different town . Thank the lord he’s not our problem .

What I find incredible is that the Broncos would actually let him get away with it.

You have to think that the Denver GM, George Paton, would be held accountable for some of this stuff that Russell has been allowed to get away with, and indeed, there's a new rumor circulating that in addition to Hackett, that he may soon be gone, too.

New Rumor Hints at Broncos GM George Paton's True Job Security. Is the Denver Broncos' general manager on as much notice as Nathaniel Hackett?

The Washington Post's Jason La Canfora added some fuel to the fire surrounding Paton's precarious situation in Denver earlier this week.

"The Russell Wilson trade and signing has been a total flop, the hiring of rookie coach Nathaniel Hackett seemed doomed from the onset — and all of that was done before a new ownership group came in. The Waltons have unlimited resources, so eating the contracts for a coach and GM might not seem all that cost-prohibitive to them. There is a mounting consensus that Hackett will not return — “They can’t sell that to their fans in 2023,” one general manager said — and three executives I spoke to believe front-office changes are more probable than not in Denver.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/geo ... ont-office

This could be a real train wreck come January. It will be interesting to see what's left of the 2022 Broncos when we head into the offseason.

[Aseahawkfan]

Heaps being close to Russ has been known for a while. He helps Russ run his camps. Not sure how involved he is in Russ on the field, but definitely with Russ in running some of his off the field business. Still in no way accounts for this kind of fall off.

And yeah. Owners have to do something to salvage this. Not sure what they can do if Russ is cooked, but they have to try something. He's fallen off so hard that I can't even imagine it. I wouldn't have been surprised at some fall off. But this is like Russ tripped, fell off a cliff, and is laying in the bottom of a gorge with a broken leg trying to hobble is way out and making no progress.

I can't even think up a viable reason for this type of fall off. I just know if I'm the owner, I am going to be making some serious changes next year starting at the top of with the GM and/or HC. Russ is a sunk cost I have to try to get something out of for at least a few years. But the others are expendable.

[NorthHawk]

That would make sense as Paton hired Hackett and made the big trade. Combine that with the new owners who might want to put in place their own people and sweeping changes could be in the cards.

[RiverDog]

That would make sense as Paton hired Hackett and made the big trade. Combine that with the new owners who might want to put in place their own people and sweeping changes could be in the cards.

New owners that have deep pockets and are anxious to get the fans on their side and may be very sensitive to how perturbed they are.

This isn't like Jacksonville or the Chargers. The Broncos have one of the more passionate, loyal fan bases in the game. You have to think that the new ownership group will want to keep them engaged.

[Hawktawk]

Does anyone think it’s a surprise Paton is in trouble ? It was bad enough making the trade and I said John had “swindled” Denver . I was ASTOUNDED they tore up a deal paying the man 35 million with 2 years left after he had won 6 games and played very poorly in 21 . Idiotic. That’s when the deal went from bad to the “ worst contract in pro sports “. Frankly I’m surprised Paton isn’t gone already . Russ gonna kill that whole organization. HT curse

[RiverDog]

Does anyone think it’s a surprise Paton is in trouble ? It was bad enough making the trade and I said John had “swindled” Denver . I was ASTOUNDED they tore up a deal paying the man 35 million with 2 years left after he had won 6 games and played very poorly in 21 . Idiotic. That’s when the deal went from bad to the “ worst contract in pro sports “. Frankly I’m surprised Paton isn’t gone already . Russ gonna kill that whole organization. HT curse

Yeah, the new contract was the killer. It's hard to blame them too much for the trade as they've been looking for a quarterback ever since Manning retired. But there was no reason why they had to tear up Russell's old deal. Did they think that if he had a good year in 2022 that it was going to be that much more expensive to extend him than the contract they offered him?

[NorthHawk]

New owners that have deep pockets and are anxious to get the fans on their side and may be very sensitive to how perturbed they are.

This isn't like Jacksonville or the Chargers. The Broncos have one of the more passionate, loyal fan bases in the game. You have to think that the new ownership group will want to keep them engaged.

Very true.
As well, they are in the same family as Krohnke who just won a SB. There might be some competitive or envious considerations, too so this going badly wouldn't sit well. I can imagine family get togethers with Smug Stan flaunting his Super Bowl ring, much to the chagrin of the Broncos owners.
Combine it wit fans leaving early and it looks like it could be a done deal.

[Hawktawk]

Most wealthy owners don’t want to be embarrassed no matter what they own . I know there’s been owners who didn’t care and ran their team into the ground but my guess they didn’t pay 7 billion to turn on the TV and hear how bad they suck .
My bet they enter next season with a new HC , GM and a quarterback good enough to start in the NFL that can hopefully motivate Russ . He’s never had to compete for his job since 2012 tc . If he can’t play they have to sit him . They can’t go another year scoring 10 ppg . No free agent skill person will want to go there . Not sure they can even get a quality coach there , maybe overpay . It’s a train wreck

[RiverDog]

The speculation will soon turn to who the Broncos might convince to be their head coach. One of the more popular names that has been bandied about is Jim Hairball, who has his Michigan team in the college football playoffs:

NFL Network’s Tom Pelissero and Ian Rapoport noted on Sunday morning that teams are “doing their homework” on Harbaugh, who has led the Wolverines to the Big Ten Championship and will be the No. 2 seed in this season’s College Football Playoff.

Despite Harbaugh saying he wouldn’t pursue an NFL job again after interviewing with the Vikings last offseason, the report cites one source who believes he’d consider returning to pro football. Another source, who’s part of a team that could be conducting a search for a new head coach, told NFL Network that “they believe Harbaugh would discuss an opening if asked and weigh the right situation.”

https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/jim-harba ... makes-cfp/

If Hairball does decide to jump back into the NFL, he'll have his pick of the litter of 5 or 6 different teams, so it would be difficult to imagine that he'd be interested in taking on that dumpster fire in Denver. But you know the saying: Money talks, BS walks.