Russell Wilson

[RiverDog]

Most wealthy owners don’t want to be embarrassed no matter what they own . I know there’s been owners who didn’t care and ran their team into the ground but my guess they didn’t pay 7 billion to turn on the TV and hear how bad they suck .
My bet they enter next season with a new HC , GM and a quarterback good enough to start in the NFL that can hopefully motivate Russ . He’s never had to compete for his job since 2012 tc . If he can’t play they have to sit him . They can’t go another year scoring 10 ppg . No free agent skill person will want to go there . Not sure they can even get a quality coach there , maybe overpay . It’s a train wreck

The problem with that scenario is who is it that they can get that would be an upgrade over Russell given their salary cap situation and draft resources.

Unless Russell decides to re-work his contract, they're stuck with him. They're going to have to at least try to make an attempt to fix him and make it work. They aren't that far away as they've been in nearly every game they've played this season, so there's a reasonable POV that they can get things turned around without doing something drastic like benching Russell.

[Hawktawk]

Most wealthy owners don’t want to be embarrassed no matter what they own . I know there’s been owners who didn’t care and ran their team into the ground but my guess they didn’t pay 7 billion to turn on the TV and hear how bad they suck .
My bet they enter next season with a new HC , GM and a quarterback good enough to start in the NFL that can hopefully motivate Russ . He’s never had to compete for his job since 2012 tc . If he can’t play they have to sit him . They can’t go another year scoring 10 ppg . No free agent skill person will want to go there . Not sure they can even get a quality coach there , maybe overpay . It’s a train wreck

The problem with that scenario is who is it that they can get that would be an upgrade over Russell given their salary cap situation and draft resources.

Unless Russell decides to re-work his contract, they're stuck with him. They're going to have to at least try to make an attempt to fix him and make it work. They aren't that far away as they've been in nearly every game they've played this season, so there's a reasonable POV that they can get things turned around without doing something drastic like benching Russell.

They are dead last in scoring . Man has 8 TD passes. Lock would have 8 wins based on his career average of 20 playing for a defensive minded coach. Russ has 1 TD in the last 7 games. Literally one of the worst QBs in the league. They have one of the best defenses in the league. Geno would be 11-1 with that defense .

I dont care what they have invested in him. If hes shot they have to move on. If its Rypien they have to move on anyway. People walk out when Russ has the ball late in games. You gotta sell season tickets and apparel too.
Hes shot. done.He's out of the league by 24 and it will only take that long because of the trade and money invested. He'd be starting nowhere else including seattle if he performed like that.

[RiverDog]

They are dead last in scoring . Man has 8 TD passes. Lock would have 8 wins based on his career average of 20 playing for a defensive minded coach. Russ has 1 TD in the last 7 games. Literally one of the worst QBs in the league. They have one of the best defenses in the league. Geno would be 11-1 with that defense .

I dont care what they have invested in him. If hes shot they have to move on. If its Rypien they have to move on anyway. People walk out when Russ has the ball late in games. You gotta sell season tickets and apparel too.
Hes shot. done.He's out of the league by 24 and it will only take that long because of the trade and money invested. He'd be starting nowhere else including seattle if he performed like that.

Yeah, we all know your opinion about Russell being done, but I seriously doubt that the owners will look at it the same way you do. It would be pure insanity if they were to give up on him after just one season, especially when they've been in so many games. Heck, you don't give up on first round draft choices that early, let alone a player that was borderline HOF.

We'll see what happens down the stretch. They get the Chiefs twice, and if they were able to pull off an upset in one of those games, which isn't that farfetched, it might make a difference in how they approach the offseason. The Broncos have a long losing streak against their rivals.

[NorthHawk]

The speculation will soon turn to who the Broncos might convince to be their head coach. One of the more popular names that has been bandied about is Jim Hairball, who has his Michigan team in the college football playoffs:

NFL Network’s Tom Pelissero and Ian Rapoport noted on Sunday morning that teams are “doing their homework” on Harbaugh, who has led the Wolverines to the Big Ten Championship and will be the No. 2 seed in this season’s College Football Playoff.

Despite Harbaugh saying he wouldn’t pursue an NFL job again after interviewing with the Vikings last offseason, the report cites one source who believes he’d consider returning to pro football. Another source, who’s part of a team that could be conducting a search for a new head coach, told NFL Network that “they believe Harbaugh would discuss an opening if asked and weigh the right situation.”

https://nypost.com/2022/12/04/jim-harba ... makes-cfp/

If Hairball does decide to jump back into the NFL, he'll have his pick of the litter of 5 or 6 different teams, so it would be difficult to imagine that he'd be interested in taking on that dumpster fire in Denver. But you know the saying: Money talks, BS walks.

He has a fairly inexpensive buyout from his contract at Michigan.
Notice how he said he wouldn't pursue a HC role in the NFL. He didn't say he wouldn't take a HC role if he was pursued by an NFL team.

[RiverDog]

He has a fairly inexpensive buyout from his contract at Michigan.

Notice how he said he wouldn't pursue a HC role in the NFL. He didn't say he wouldn't take a HC role if he was pursued by an NFL team.

Yeah, sort of like Russell saying that he 'hopes' to be a Seahawk until he was 40 something. These guys would make some great lawyers or politicians with the way they can manipulate the English language and lie without really lying.

Unless Denver offers Hairball a gazillon dollars, I can't see him going there. Arizona has been mentioned as a possible destination, but they have a QB situation not unlike what Denver has with Russell. So Houston maybe? Perhaps the Colts where he once played?

[Aseahawkfan]

Denver has no choice but to do absolutely everything to salvage Russell for at least a year or two. That guaranteed money and the loss of draft picks is like a ball and chain around their neck.

[Hawktawk]

Denver has no choice but to do absolutely everything to salvage Russell for at least a year or two. That guaranteed money and the loss of draft picks is like a ball and chain around their neck.

I understand they do . And they will . But how long ?

This is a huge fan base ; far more ruthless than Seattle . They are furious with Russ . A lot depends on the last 5 games just like Seattle and lots of teams .

If Russ sweeps KC we’re in a different conversation.

Lose out or win 1 more ) average less then 10 ppg you have to at least be ready to sit the guy . Most cap models say 24 is the earliest they could cut bait without a record cap hit . Doesn’t mean they have to play him.

Watson sat out most of 2 years and got paid the whole time . Plenty of overpaid guys in lots of sports sit on the bench .

After this year I don’t really care but as a guy analyzing the sport for 4 decades russ looks spectacularly done . Quickest decline I’ve ever seen in any athlete .

[Aseahawkfan]

I would think maybe 2 years. If Russ can't turn around in two years, they're going to have to cut bait, take the insults for being stupid, and move on.

[RiverDog]

Sweeping KC or splitting with them and win 4 of their last 5, is the only thing that might save Hackett's job. Otherwise, I think he's a dead man walking.

The Donkeys have lost 13 in a row to the Chiefs so it would seem very unlikely that they'd beat them twice. Besides the Chiefs, they get the Rams, Cards, and Chargers so it's feasible that they could win two of those. It's also feasible that they could lose out.

[trents]

I understand they do . And they will . But how long ?

This is a huge fan base ; far more ruthless than Seattle . They are furious with Russ . A lot depends on the last 5 games just like Seattle and lots of teams .

If Russ sweeps KC we’re in a different conversation.

Lose out or win 1 more ) average less then 10 ppg you have to at least be ready to sit the guy . Most cap models say 24 is the earliest they could cut bait without a record cap hit . Doesn’t mean they have to play him.

Watson sat out most of 2 years and got paid the whole time . Plenty of overpaid guys in lots of sports sit on the bench .

After this year I don’t really care but as a guy analyzing the sport for 4 decades russ looks spectacularly done . Quickest decline I’ve ever seen in any athlete .

Agree with all of this. Almost anybody you put in there would do as well or better than Russ has. I mean, Baker might be an upgrade at this point and he's available and probably at a bargain.

With Russ, something's going on there that folks don't know about. You just don't decline that fast naturally. I mean, he's only what, 33 and with a ton of experience and a long history of productive play. I don't know what it is but something is below the surface. What's the locker room like there now? Haven't heard anything but don't see how it can be good.

[RiverDog]

Honestly, you can look at their situation a couple of different ways. Certainly, HT's viewpoint has merit. Numbers don't lie, the QB is the most quantifiable position on the field, and Russ's numbers are awful. He started to show a regression over at least the past 1.5 seasons with us, and there's the possibility that he may never regain that magic that made him a bonified HOF candidate. The Broncos are 3-9, and as the Tuna once said, you are what your record says you are.

But when you take a look at the Broncos as a whole, they really aren't that far off. They haven't lost a game by more than two scores all season, their worst defeat being two weeks ago at the Panthers when they got beat 23-10. There's only one other game where they lost by two scores, a 32-23 loss to the Raiders. The other losing scores have been 17-16, 12-9, 19-16, 16-9, 17-10, 22-16, and 10-9. It wouldn't take that much of a turnaround for their offense for the Broncos to get right back in the thick of things.

With that in mind, IMO the best course of action is for the Broncos to stay the course with Russell. Obviously, Hackett is likely gone and maybe Paton, too, but they are almost compelled to do what they can with Russell and not throw in the towel so quickly.

[Hawktawk]

It’s the lowest scoring offense in the league . It’s been beat to death . If they had simply scored 18 points each game they would be 10-2 or something . Remember too Russ got an 11-9 win over the 9ers when JG ran out of the endzone . Russ got the GWD after 8 3 and outs. He scored 16 on the Texans , started the game 4-14 and was being booed by halftime in week 3 or something . Davis Mills has been benched several games now and has more TDs. Yeah the donkeys are close . An offense away . I’ve seen so many blown reads , bad throws , bad decisions , bad sacks ( on his way to a career high ) I just don’t see him pulling out of it . If he’s serous close the damn office . Fire Heaps. He’s not earning his money anyway . Look in the mirror and repeat “ I suck I have got to man up “.
Call a team meeting and apologize for your play . Same for the coach and fans , especially them. Take ownership and change so you can extend your career .

I don’t think he will ever do any of it . Too proud . Pride goes before a fall and a proud heart before destruction .
A season like this should have made Russ more real , humbled him . It doesn’t seem to have done that at all . Anything is possible but I’ll be shocked if the guy ever gets back to 2021 form .

[Aseahawkfan]

Honestly, you can look at their situation a couple of different ways. Certainly, HT's viewpoint has merit. Numbers don't lie, the QB is the most quantifiable position on the field, and Russ's numbers are awful. He started to show a regression over at least the past 1.5 seasons with us, and there's the possibility that he may never regain that magic that made him a bonified HOF candidate. The Broncos are 3-9, and as the Tuna once said, you are what your record says you are.

But when you take a look at the Broncos as a whole, they really aren't that far off. They haven't lost a game by more than two scores all season, their worst defeat being two weeks ago at the Panthers when they got beat 23-10. There's only one other game where they lost by two scores, a 32-23 loss to the Raiders. The other losing scores have been 17-16, 12-9, 19-16, 16-9, 17-10, 22-16, and 10-9. It wouldn't take that much of a turnaround for their offense for the Broncos to get right back in the thick of things.

With that in mind, IMO the best course of action is for the Broncos to stay the course with Russell. Obviously, Hackett is likely gone and maybe Paton, too, but they are almost compelled to do what they can with Russell and not throw in the towel so quickly.

I want to know why Russ fell off so hard and see if he can come back. I don't recall seeing a QB fall off like this.

I wonder if it is:

1. Coaching and bad play calling.

2. Some unknown injury to his arm or shoulder.

3. He truly isn't diagnosing defenses well and missing throws.

4. Bad receivers who aren't property running routes.

5. Bad offensive design in the red zone.

6. The thin Denver air causing Russ's throws to be off because he is used to Seattle's average to heavy air with lots of moisture.

Even last year when everyone was saying Russ was regressing, he still had some absolutely amazing games in the final games of the season. This is just weird.

If we didn't have their draft picks, I'd feel bad for Russ. But given we have Denver's draft picks, I can't help but feel great.

[obiken]

All of the above.

[RiverDog]

I want to know why Russ fell off so hard and see if he can come back. I don't recall seeing a QB fall off like this.

I wonder if it is:

1. Coaching and bad play calling.

2. Some unknown injury to his arm or shoulder.

3. He truly isn't diagnosing defenses well and missing throws.

4. Bad receivers who aren't property running routes.

5. Bad offensive design in the red zone.

6. The thin Denver air causing Russ's throws to be off because he is used to Seattle's average to heavy air with lots of moisture.

Even last year when everyone was saying Russ was regressing, he still had some absolutely amazing games in the final games of the season. This is just weird.

If we didn't have their draft picks, I'd feel bad for Russ. But given we have Denver's draft picks, I can't help but feel great.

You can scratch #6. It affects kicking, not passes that travel a relatively short distance compared to a punt or a kick.

#1 certainly has affected the Broncos' W/L record, but I'm not sure how much it's directly affected Russell's performance. If you listen to HT tell it, with the exception of his Team 3 coaches, he doesn't listen to them anyway. Same with #5.

#2 is possible but not likely. Same with #4. But #3 is absolutely one of the reasons. We've seen a number of times where Russell didn't throw to an open receiver and instead opted to throw it into a tight window with devastating results, like the loss to the Colts.

One of the factors that you didn't mention as a possibility is a declining skill set. Russell doesn't move as well, isn't as elusive, is not a threat to run the read option as he once was. I also think that his lack of height has started to become a problem as he's trying to develop into more of a traditional pocket passing QB.

[Hawktawk]

Honestly, you can look at their situation a couple of different ways. Certainly, HT's viewpoint has merit. Numbers don't lie, the QB is the most quantifiable position on the field, and Russ's numbers are awful. He started to show a regression over at least the past 1.5 seasons with us, and there's the possibility that he may never regain that magic that made him a bonified HOF candidate. The Broncos are 3-9, and as the Tuna once said, you are what your record says you are.

But when you take a look at the Broncos as a whole, they really aren't that far off. They haven't lost a game by more than two scores all season, their worst defeat being two weeks ago at the Panthers when they got beat 23-10. There's only one other game where they lost by two scores, a 32-23 loss to the Raiders. The other losing scores have been 17-16, 12-9, 19-16, 16-9, 17-10, 22-16, and 10-9. It wouldn't take that much of a turnaround for their offense for the Broncos to get right back in the thick of things.

With that in mind, IMO the best course of action is for the Broncos to stay the course with Russell. Obviously, Hackett is likely gone and maybe Paton, too, but they are almost compelled to do what they can with Russell and not throw in the towel so quickly.

I want to know why Russ fell off so hard and see if he can come back. I don't recall seeing a QB fall off like this.

I wonder if it is:

1. Coaching and bad play calling.

2. Some unknown injury to his arm or shoulder.

3. He truly isn't diagnosing defenses well and missing throws.

4. Bad receivers who aren't property running routes.

5. Bad offensive design in the red zone.

6. The thin Denver air causing Russ's throws to be off because he is used to Seattle's average to heavy air with lots of moisture.

Even last year when everyone was saying Russ was regressing, he still had some absolutely amazing games in the final games of the season. This is just weird.

If we didn't have their draft picks, I'd feel bad for Russ. But given we have Denver's draft picks, I can't help but feel great.

You and I had the discussion late in the season about who was more responsible for whos resurgence, Penny or Russ. Rashaad Penny broke some NFL records down the stretch with 4 of his last 5 games being 135>. His last 2 vs Detroit and AZ were 175 and 190. Russ killed teams off play action with his patented rainbows to DK, Lockett and Swain.

But even in the finale vs AZ he blew a hot read to his front side and got run down by Chandler jones for a strip 6. Wyman was flabbergasted a 10 year vet would miss that.The following possession he overthrew Homer by a yard on a little short out for in effect a pick 6. 38 to 30 final score not too many people paid attention but I did and Pete and John did too. He had some 15 point games last year too.

I think hes olded out, shell shocked. Hit too much. I dont think hes accountable to anyone including himself cause he isn't honest with himself. I didnt make up the stories about bucking his coaches. Hackett leaked within weeks that he wasn't running the plays as called.
And calling Seahawks audibles? Don't tell me hes putting in the time off the field if he does that one time out there.
Hes slowed down a tenth or 2 and his go to which has always been scramble is going away.
I'm not sure he didn't permanently damage his grip finger pulling a pin 3 weeks early and starting an NFL game the week the pin was supposed to be pulled followed by another 2-3 weeks of PT.
That's according my personal orthopedic surgeon. He thought it was totally bogus as a fan that he did that knowing he wasn't ready. Stupid too. For attention, publicity.

For whatever reason hes utterly lost the ability to read the field. His receivers aren't great but he missed seeing KJ Hamler wide open to beat the colts among other similar fails.
I dont know how you teach an old dog new tricks they forgot after 10 years.

[RiverDog]

For whatever reason hes utterly lost the ability to read the field. His receivers aren't great but he missed seeing KJ Hamler wide open to beat the colts among other similar fails.

I dont know how you teach an old dog new tricks they forgot after 10 years.

After watching Baker Mayfield, after having just one walk through practice with his receivers and less than 48 hours to learn the playbook, perform in the 4th quarter of last night's game, I'm not going to express the kind of confidence you have in your opinion that Russell is done. Not unlike Russell, Mayfield was considered washed up. He was picked up off of waivers. Granted, it was only one game, and to be more specific, one quarter of one game. But if he can do something like that, so can Russell. You can teach old dogs new tricks.

[Hawktawk]

]

For whatever reason hes utterly lost the ability to read the field. His receivers aren't great but he missed seeing KJ Hamler wide open to beat the colts among other similar fails.

I dont know how you teach an old dog new tricks they forgot after 10 years.

[quote="RiverDog" After watching Baker Mayfield, after having just one walk through practice with his receivers and less than 48 hours to learn the playbook, perform in the 4th quarter of last night's game, I'm not going to express the kind of confidence you have in your opinion that Russell is done. Not unlike Russell, Mayfield was considered washed up. He was picked up off of waivers. Granted, it was only one game, and to be more specific, one quarter of one game. But if he can do something like that, so can Russell. You can teach old dogs new tricks.[/quote]

Spoken by the man who constantly reminded me that 13 quarters of excellent football was cherry picked You're all lathered up about 1 quarter.
I like Mayfield. I liked Geno a lot better but the dude has moxie. Hes got an attitude that turns people off but hes real.

As for him completing a GWD aided by a 25 yard swing when a Raiders defended slapped the ball out of Mayfields hands after a sack? As far as that proving something about Russ well yeah I guess.

While Russ was going 11-29 with a pick 6 losing at home to the Rams in the 2021 WC Baker was leading the Browns to a road win over Pittsburgh, a blowout actually. He had a left tackle he met in the locker room before the game.

He was beat to hell in 21. Racing Russ to the bottom statistically in Carolina while he still had McCaffrey, now with a QB friendly system with the Rams( the same system Russ left and Geno is tearing it up in). Ill not be irrationally exuberant about Mayfield but hes got a FAR better chance to have future success then an absolutely lost 33 year old guy who has been a shell of himself for a year and a half. I won't bet much on either.

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

For whatever reason hes utterly lost the ability to read the field. His receivers aren't great but he missed seeing KJ Hamler wide open to beat the colts among other similar fails.

I dont know how you teach an old dog new tricks they forgot after 10 years.

After watching Baker Mayfield, after having just one walk through practice with his receivers and less than 48 hours to learn the playbook, perform in the 4th quarter of last night's game, I'm not going to express the kind of confidence you have in your opinion that Russell is done. Not unlike Russell, Mayfield was considered washed up. He was picked up off of waivers. Granted, it was only one game, and to be more specific, one quarter of one game. But if he can do something like that, so can Russell. You can teach old dogs new tricks.

If Wilson's trajectory continues through the end of this season, he's got on more shot to come out swinging next season to prove he's still got it in my book. I honestly hope for the best for him; loved what he did in Seattle for the majority of his career, but, like you've said, it's a "what can you do for me now" league (and world for that matter).

[RiverDog]

Spoken by the man who constantly reminded me that 13 quarters of excellent football was cherry picked You're all lathered up about 1 quarter.
I like Mayfield. I liked Geno a lot better but the dude has moxie. Hes got an attitude that turns people off but hes real.

As for him completing a GWD aided by a 25 yard swing when a Raiders defended slapped the ball out of Mayfields hands after a sack? As far as that proving something about Russ well yeah I guess.

While Russ was going 11-29 with a pick 6 losing at home to the Rams in the 2021 WC Baker was leading the Browns to a road win over Pittsburgh, a blowout actually. He had a left tackle he met in the locker room before the game.

He was beat to hell in 21. Racing Russ to the bottom statistically in Carolina while he still had McCaffrey, now with a QB friendly system with the Rams( the same system Russ left and Geno is tearing it up in). Ill not be irrationally exuberant about Mayfield but hes got a FAR better chance to have future success then an absolutely lost 33 year old guy who has been a shell of himself for a year and a half. I won't bet much on either.

I'm not "all lathered up" about Mayfield. I'm just saying that if Mayfield can perform with the types of limitations he was encumbered with over however short of a period, Russell can certainly do the same. Mayfield is a reminder of how quickly things can pivot.

I don't for a minute buy your assessment of Russell being completely finished, at least not yet. I'm not saying that you're wrong or that he even has a greater than 50% chance of turning it around, only that a permanent demise is far from a sure thing.

[NorthHawk]

For his sake, I hope that this year is a wake up call that sets him back on the path for success in the NFL. He may have too many outside interests and distractions to become the best he can be
and a season of losing and public scorn may push him to re-evaluate how he's approaching his career.
I, too hope he straightens it out. Next year.

[RiverDog]

For his sake, I hope that this year is a wake up call that sets him back on the path for success in the NFL. He may have too many outside interests and distractions to become the best he can be
and a season of losing and public scorn may push him to re-evaluate how he's approaching his career.
I, too hope he straightens it out. Next year.

I'm actually pretty ambivalent about it. On the one hand, he's a former Seahawk that has given us a decade's worth of excitement, two SB appearances, and our only Lombardi. I certainly don't wish him to end his career by auguring in like this. But on the other hand, he's essentially asked for it, and all the ridicule and scorn he's taken, for the most part, has been self-inflicted at least in part by his own actions and behavior. He made his own bed, now he has to sleep in it.

Plus, I love the real-life drama, lots better than a soap opera or reality TV.

[Aseahawkfan]

You and I had the discussion late in the season about who was more responsible for whos resurgence, Penny or Russ. Rashaad Penny broke some NFL records down the stretch with 4 of his last 5 games being 135>. His last 2 vs Detroit and AZ were 175 and 190. Russ killed teams off play action with his patented rainbows to DK, Lockett and Swain.

But even in the finale vs AZ he blew a hot read to his front side and got run down by Chandler jones for a strip 6. Wyman was flabbergasted a 10 year vet would miss that.The following possession he overthrew Homer by a yard on a little short out for in effect a pick 6. 38 to 30 final score not too many people paid attention but I did and Pete and John did too. He had some 15 point games last year too.

I think hes olded out, shell shocked. Hit too much. I dont think hes accountable to anyone including himself cause he isn't honest with himself. I didnt make up the stories about bucking his coaches. Hackett leaked within weeks that he wasn't running the plays as called.
And calling Seahawks audibles? Don't tell me hes putting in the time off the field if he does that one time out there.
Hes slowed down a tenth or 2 and his go to which has always been scramble is going away.
I'm not sure he didn't permanently damage his grip finger pulling a pin 3 weeks early and starting an NFL game the week the pin was supposed to be pulled followed by another 2-3 weeks of PT.
That's according my personal orthopedic surgeon. He thought it was totally bogus as a fan that he did that knowing he wasn't ready. Stupid too. For attention, publicity.

For whatever reason hes utterly lost the ability to read the field. His receivers aren't great but he missed seeing KJ Hamler wide open to beat the colts among other similar fails.
I dont know how you teach an old dog new tricks they forgot after 10 years.

I'm not going to listen to you revise history. Russ had ten great years. He set the bar high for any future Seahawks QB. We have a Lombardi at least partially due to him. He was a great face of the franchise with no off the field issues who represented his community well. We had the greatest run of Seahawks football in our history with Russ as the leader of the offense and face of the team.

There is no discussion to be had now or ever. What Russ did is already in the books and on his resume. Penny is not even comparable to Russ at all, not even in the same ballpark. He's done next to nothing in five years in the league even with that six game stretch and he's now out for the season for the third time in his five year career.

Russ as bad as he is right now is still out there on the field trying to turn it around. The kid never gives up and never gives in. Sure, you get to take a giant dump on him and brag about being right, but it still won't change that Russ lead this team to a Super Bowl and a second trip back to back and gave us the best Seahawks football in our history and was the best Seahawks QB to ever wear the uniform. And one of the best humans to ever put on the uniform on and off the field. Nothing you say or try to rewrite or do is going to change that.

Right now Russ is having a really bad year. People like you and I guess Riverdog are enjoying the drama of it. The only reason I feel any happiness is the draft picks, otherwise it would be sad to watch. I hope he can pick himself up next year and rise up again. Unlike you and your attempts to rewrite Seahawks history with Russ as some kind of "villain", I like the guy. Always will. I think his eternal optimism is a positive trait. He's done nothing to bother me at all. I've been watching the NFL for 40 years or so now. I've seen so many people in the NFL that are truly bad people that when I see people pile on Russ, it just seems like a bunch of petty people who can't stand to see a positive person like Russ out there trying to live his dream while still being a good person off the field, a corny person.

Barring Russ having some kind of Tiger Wood's, Eugene Robinson, or similar type of revelation, I'll root for the guy to do well after this year. The world could use more people like him with a positive attitude who take care of their family and set a good example of working hard, succeeding, and still having time to do good things in your community.

You can keep finding reasons to bag on him, hate him, and bragging about how you called his downfall if that's what floats your boat.

[RiverDog]

Right now Russ is having a really bad year. People like you and I guess Riverdog are enjoying the drama of it.

I'm not sure that "enjoying" is the right term to describe my emotions as even though I don't feel sorry for him, I really don't like seeing any friend suffer emotionally like this, and I do consider him as a sort of friend. Fascinated is a more fitting word. It's an incredible fall from grace.

[Aseahawkfan]

I'm not sure that "enjoying" is the right term to describe my emotions as even though I don't feel sorry for him, I really don't like seeing any friend suffer emotionally like this, and I do consider him as a sort of friend. Fascinated is a more fitting word. It's an incredible fall from grace.

We all know you by now. You just like having something to jaw about on the forum and the Russell drama gets the tongues wagging in Seahawk land, especially for Hawktawk.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure that "enjoying" is the right term to describe my emotions as even though I don't feel sorry for him, I really don't like seeing any friend suffer emotionally like this, and I do consider him as a sort of friend. Fascinated is a more fitting word. It's an incredible fall from grace.

We all know you by now. You just like having something to jaw about on the forum and the Russell drama gets the tongues wagging in Seahawk land, especially for Hawktawk.

There's probably at least some truth to that. Russell is a subject that I know that I'm going to get a response on, especially from Hawktawk, who truly has an obsession with him.

[Hawktawk]

]

I'm not sure that "enjoying" is the right term to describe my emotions as even though I don't feel sorry for him, I really don't like seeing any friend suffer emotionally like this, and I do consider him as a sort of friend. Fascinated is a more fitting word. It's an incredible fall from grace.

We all know you by now. You just like having something to jaw about on the forum and the Russell drama gets the tongues wagging in Seahawk land, especially for Hawktawk.[/quote]

I just analyze and make observations , prognostications. So far ive had as good a year as I ever had doing that in 23 years on this forum .
And sorry Asea I called it . It’s a little worse than I thought but not much and argue all you like . It’s not my fault Russ sucks . It’s not Hacketts any more than it was Waldron or Pete’s . He’s not working hard .

Mayfield proved one thing with his comeback Thursday . How bad Russ is now . Don’t talk about injuries and coaching . Hes looked like the worst qb in the league for 12 weeks .

Delighted to be so correct about this year . I won’t be delighted when I’m most likely right next year too . But I think I’m going to be . I’m revising nothing . The history is a guy who had 8.5 outstanding years despite issues with teammates etc and fell off a cliff making the subject of the worst trade in history .

[RiverDog]

Delighted to be so correct about this year.

After you spent countless hours trumpeting Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel, it's about time you hit on one of them.

[Hawktawk]

Delighted to be so correct about this year.

After you spent countless hours trumpeting Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel, it's about time you hit on one of them. [/quote]
Yeah mr we’re building with Tavares 100 wins and a Lombardi ago .
Honestly RD you are an argumentative cuss that I have never read “ I am wrong , I was wrong ever in over 20 years . Maybe I missed it or maybe you have never been wrong . That’s probably it . I’ll take till my grave Tim Tebow was better then guys that were playing when he wasn’t . It’s a subjective analysis . Not sure why Manziel comes up . He’s got skills but rolling up a dollar bill was one . But to damn with faint praise the kind of EPIC year I have had bringing up stuff like that is a guy that hates being wrong and won’t accept it or admit it.
I’m the champion so far dude . 5 weeks left then let’s see . Might be different then but I’m MONEY right now .

[RiverDog]

Delighted to be so correct about this year.

After you spent countless hours trumpeting Tim Tebow and Johnny Manziel, it's about time you hit on one of them.

Honestly RD you are an argumentative cuss that I have never read “ I am wrong , I was wrong ever in over 20 years . Maybe I missed it or maybe you have never been wrong . That’s probably it . I’ll take till my grave Tim Tebow was better then guys that were playing when he wasn’t . It’s a subjective analysis . Not sure why Manziel comes up . He’s got skills but rolling up a dollar bill was one . But to damn with faint praise the kind of EPIC year I have had bringing up stuff like that is a guy that hates being wrong and won’t accept it or admit it.
I’m the champion so far dude . 5 weeks left then let’s see . Might be different then but I’m MONEY right now .

Just pulling your chain a little bit, my friend! Tebow and Manziel are your Achilles heal, so whenever you start gloating about being right, expect to hear about them.

[RiverDog]

More bad news for Russell:

What followed has easily been the most shocking regression and failure to meet expectations, arguably, in NFL history. We already know that the Broncos' 13.8-points-per-game offense is the worst in franchise history, but Wilson himself has set a new low among the all-time league annals.

CBS Sports' research writer Doug Clawson illustrated just how far Wilson has fallen since donning the Orange and Blue.

"Russell Wilson’s passer rating has declined 19.6 points from last season (103.1 > 83.5) It's the largest decline by any player in his 1st season with a team since the 1970 NFL-AFL merger Min. 300 attempts each year," Clawson tweeted.

https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/rus ... story-stat

[Hawktawk]

Riv I saw you earlier comments about being ambivalent about his struggles . I truly relish them , not because of a pick in the draft but because towards the end he butted heads with his team , his coach , and said hurtful things about this city and fans that were unnecessary , some within days of the opener . I though he needs taken down a peg but wow . I don’t think there will be any revival next year but let’s see . KC this weekend is their Super Bowl. If they win that and Russ is decent maybe they get some momentum . But I sense another depressing afternoon . They can’t continue starting him next season like this . Nobody in the league not named Wilson would be starting playing like this .

[RiverDog]

Riv I saw you earlier comments about being ambivalent about his struggles . I truly relish them , not because of a pick in the draft but because towards the end he butted heads with his team , his coach , and said hurtful things about this city and fans that were unnecessary , some within days of the opener . I though he needs taken down a peg but wow . I don’t think there will be any revival next year but let’s see . KC this weekend is their Super Bowl. If they win that and Russ is decent maybe they get some momentum . But I sense another depressing afternoon . They can’t continue starting him next season like this . Nobody in the league not named Wilson would be starting playing like this .

Like a lot of things Russell says, his comments ahead of the season were vague and not very specific. A person could read a lot of things into them. You chose to read them in a way that fit your narrative.

I, too, see another bad loss for the Donkeys today. As good as their defense is, KC's offense is tops in the league, and I can't see them keeping the Chiefs under 20 points, which is what it's going to take for them to pull off an upset. IMO the Chiefs win by at least two TD's.

[Hawktawk]

Russell Wilson is one of the most media and image conscious pro athletes in the sport . Everything scripted for 10 years . He knew exactly what he was saying and what the impact on the national media would be . He wanted to see his face on Tv and name in the news . Totally intentional . Like FB selfie guy . Look at me . None of it is aging well .


You say it was quiet and too many raiders fans ? It was like a f16 taking off for 3 hours with lots of orange 3s in the opener . I thought I was gonna have a seizure .

But those Seattle fans got the message . It was one of Russels best statistical games , healthy bronc squad . Without the 12s no way Seattle wins then let’s see how the year goes . It’s called blackboard material . Russ needs to look in the mirror on that .

I expect KC to crush them but who knows this year .

[RiverDog]

Warren Moon has an interesting take on Russell, claims that he's too short and too stubborn:

(Seattle) wanted to have him in the pocket about 60 percent of the time and then move him around the rest. All that stuff about, ‘Let Russ cook’ is really him talking about wanting to be in the pocket all the time. He can’t do that. He’s too short. You have to get him out in space a lot of the time so he can see everything.”

"You have to get Russ moving around so that he can get out into space so he can see things better. You know from watching, He’s not going to be able to see the middle of the field. When you watch him throw deep, it’s rarely deep down the middle. He also doesn’t see it very well and now that he doesn’t move as well as he used to, he doesn’t like going.”

https://www.sportskeeda.com/nfl/warren- ... b-stubborn

I've always felt that one of the reasons why Russell doesn't like going across the middle was due to his height, or lack of it, and that unless the pocket opens up for him, he can't see it as well as taller QB's. He also doesn't seem to be taking as deep of drops as he used to, which further compounds the problem. Those tendencies were present the last few years he was with us and one of the things I felt he needed to change if he was going to be successful in Denver.

[RiverDog]

After a slow start, Russell didn't play all that badly, actually led the Donkeys on a couple of scoring drives. However, he did throw a bad pick 6, trying to loft it over a defender about 5 yards away from him. He left the game after a hard tackle on a QB scramble and entered concussion protocol. Mahomes had an absolutely horrible day, throwing 3 unforced interceptions. The Donks ended up losing by 6, dropping them to 3-10.

I've been keeping a close eye on the teams with a W/L record close to Denver's, and I was hoping that the Texans would have upset the Cowboys as that would have put them within one game of the Donkeys slot, but the Texans choked it away. Jacksonville upset the Titans, moving them two games away from the Broncos slot. The Bears, now with the same record as Denver, had a bye this week. The 4-8 Cards play on MNF.

[Hawktawk]

Just read an article written by a Denver sportswriter titled “ it’s time for Russ to make some concessions “ suggestions included running the offense he had in Seattle , a concession that Carroll was absolutely correct in how to deploy Wilson . Conservative ground and pound . Russ using his mobility .

Another was dump the posse when on the job . No personal coaches in the facility . Close the office .

Most interesting and revealing was a suggestion he should have had a weight clause in his deal as he has been overweight all year . It’s what I thought I saw in the opener .
I guess this one guy at least isn’t buying that nobody can outwork the guy .

[Stream Hawk]

It looks like RW is in line to play this weekend against Arizona. Zona is crumbling so Den will probably win. I can’t believe he almost came back to beat KC. Although it might be a bad idea with the concussion. I expect them to win at least two more games this year. So we might want to temper the idea of a top three pick; probably more like top six.

[Hawktawk]

It looks like RW is in line to play this weekend against Arizona. Zona is crumbling so Den will probably win. I can’t believe he almost came back to beat KC. Although it might be a bad idea with the concussion. I expect them to win at least two more games this year. So we might want to temper the idea of a top three pick; probably more like top six.

Once again Russ is playing with his health forcing his way on the field . The concussion was truly scary , dude laying there with his eyes rolled up in his head , open . Huard said he had a massive hematoma on his scalp and that he had never seen anything quite like it . He apparently tried to re enter the game . Russ is tough , nobody’s disputing that but what is he doing ? What is the organization doing here ? What’s the point ?
I did hear Hackett say they were gonna listen to the “ independent doctors “ . Sounds like the same independent doctors that said his hand was better then new last year .
I doubt they beat AZ. I don’t wish injury on Russ , certainly not brain injury but he’s being stupid again .

[Hawktawk]

Heathy scratch . I agree with the coach . Hopefully
Rypien doesn’t tear it up
.