American Muscle to revisit the Sherman Crabtree debacle

[c_hawkbob]

Check out the latest Eisen Podcast: http://www.nfl.com/podcast/richeisen-podcast , at about the 42 minute mark they discuss Sherman Crabtree business and McGinest really dials the situation in (in greater depth than I've been aware of at least). The conversation revolves around Sherm visiting a famous gym and being asked about it in a more relaxed, just a bunch of athletes setting. It's a month or two after the fact so things have had time to settle but it's clear that this is something that's just not going to go away, this sh!t's gonna carry on or the rest of Crab's me-de-o-cre career, I'd feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a punk.

[kalibane]

Funny stuff Bob. McGinnist fills in the blanks and what do you know turns out that Crabtree was the d-bag in this situation. But you know it's just us Hawk fans that are homers about Sherman.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm almost interested to see how future tries to spin this ...

[FolkCrusader]

Thanks Bob. Interesting listen.

[Futureite]

It's not going to follow Crab at all. It's going to follow Sherman, because he's the one that will contunue bringing it up. In realuty all he did was tip a ball thrown to a guy that was 8 months removed from achilles surgery. Not sure any spin is neefed but from Mr. Sherman, who has blown it up as some amazing play that he'll probably ride off for the rest of his career. As usual, he managed to spin the blowback from his rant as well, by playing the "thug" victim card shortly thereafter lol. Pathetic.

[c_hawkbob]

It's not going to follow Crab at all. It's going to follow Sherman, because he's the one that will contunue bringing it up. In realuty all he did was tip a ball thrown to a guy that was 8 months removed from achilles surgery. Not sure any spin is neefed but from Mr. Sherman. As usual, he managed to do that already by playing the "thug" victim shortly thereafter lol!

You didn't even bother too listen to the podcast did you future? Your mind's already made up, no need to clutter it with the truth.

It's not about the play, never was. It's about a punk unwilling to man up after mouthing off and then getting his arse handed to him on the field. And it's not going to follow Crabs at all (other than the fact that Sherm's gonna keep handing him his arse every time they play), never said it was, I said it's not going to go away. Whereas if he'd acted like a man about it it never would have blown up in the first place.

[Futureite]

It's not going to follow Crab at all. It's going to follow Sherman, because he's the one that will contunue bringing it up. In realuty all he did was tip a ball thrown to a guy that was 8 months removed from achilles surgery. Not sure any spin is neefed but from Mr. Sherman. As usual, he managed to do that already by playing the "thug" victim shortly thereafter lol!

You didn't even bother too listen to the podcast did you future? Your mind's already made up, no need to clutter it with the truth.

It's not about the play, never was. It's about a punk unwilling to man up after mouthing off and then getting his arse handed to him on the field. And it's not going to follow Crabs at all (other than the fact that Sherm's gonna keep handing him his arse every time they play), never said it was, I said it's not going to go away. Whereas if he's acted like a man about it it never would have blown up in the first place.

I would have listened if not in the office. I will later tonight. Hard to believe anyone can take Sherman serious regarding personality assessment. Maybe Crab is a punk who talks, maybe he's not. We've never heard him say much in the media, so it's hard to say. What we do know is Sherman is without a doubt a s*** talking dick off the field. Hense the reason he's been punched after a game, screamed in a HOFers face, on and on. Somehow other "men" manage to avoid this sort of thing. But in his case all I hear is "so and so came at him first". Cmon Bob!

I mean really, you are going off of what Sherman says for a credible account of someone's character? The guy has an issue with everyone under the sun.

I do not want to continue hating on the guy, because it will effect my opinion of him as a player. But I honestly have no udea how anyone could logically trust his opinion on any sort of off the field incident regarding a personal disagreement. It's almost unbelievable to me.

Crab had one post game tweet about this. One line and we haven't heard anything since. Yet Sherman continues to aggravate, making a shirt, giving his snappy little comnents. You tell me who is being the man here. Clearly, that pattern of behavior would lead to the logical assumption that it all started with Crab? Cmon!

[kalibane]

Well Future, here is the deal...

It started with Rich Eisen talking about this footage but the upshot was not Sherman's account of the incident in that gym.

Willie McGinnist filled in the details saying that he heard from multiple sources who witnessed the incident that what happened was they were at a pool party following Fitz' softball game and Sherman was "friends" with some of the guys on the 49ers and went up to greet all of them including Crabtree. Sherman extended his hand and said "what up Crab?", and apparently Crab was still mad about some trash talk on the field from the previous season and said get your hand out of my face along with some other choice words and the situation escalated until Sherman stated that he didn't want to ruin Fitz' event and they could squash it on the field.

After the NFC Championship game Sherman extended his hand again as an attempt to bury the situation once and for all and got mushed in the face for his trouble along with some other choice words from Crabtree. That's when Sherman snapped and that's when Erin Andrews showed up with a Microphone.

So are McGinnist and his "multiple sources" liars too?

P.S. Future, if it was such an easy play to tip a pass away from a WR who was coming off Achilles surgery, remind me again why it was a smart decision to throw that ball?

[c_hawkbob]

Don't you c'mon Bob me, you're no one to be chastising me over anything.

And it's not about what Sherman says anyway, (at least the podcast is not, clearly the episode of American Muscle they are discussing will be), it's about what players and former players that were there when relevant matters happened are saying. There's no question among those who know (not Seahawk fans either) about just what happened.

[Futureite]

Well Future, here is the deal...

It started with Rich Eisen talking about this footage but the upshot was not Sherman's account of the incident in that gym.

Willie McGinnist filled in the details saying that he heard from multiple sources who witnessed the incident that what happened was they were at a pool party following Fitz' softball game and Sherman was "friends" with some of the guys on the 49ers and went up to greet all of them including Crabtree. Sherman extended his hand and said "what up Crab?", and apparently Crab was still mad about some trash talk on the field from the previous season and said get your hand out of my face along with some other choice words and the situation escalated until Sherman stated that he didn't want to ruin Fitz' event and they could squash it on the field.

After the NFC Championship game Sherman extended his hand again as an attempt to bury the situation once and for all and got mushed in the face for his trouble along with some other choice words from Crabtree. That's when Sherman snapped and that's when Erin Andrews showed up with a Microphone.

So are McGinnist and his "multiple sources" liars too?

P.S. Future, if it was such an easy play to tip a pass away from a WR who was coming off Achilles surgery, remind me again why it was a smart decision to throw that ball?

Why is Crab required to shake his hand?? Or be his friend? Like I said, a man literally punched Sherman after a game while Sherman was congratulating other players. But it's his problem. And Crab's problem. And Revis', Bayliss', Peterson's, AJ Green's, Tom Brady's, Jim Harbaugh's - man, can I stop now? The guy does not know how to shut his trap, and different people will take that in a different way. Me? I'd probably have shook his hand. Doesn"t effect me if someone is a major dick. But I fully endorse other's right to say "get out of my face". Seriously.

In my opinion, Crab handled it like a man. He confronted him in person, then kept his mouth shut in the media. Sherman handled it the type of guy he is - went running to the media, printing shirts, Tweeting. Crab has still kept his mouth shut, and yet I guarantee Sherman will still yap about it. I say the former is acting like a man, the latter like a 16 yr old girl. I guess everyone's definition is different.

[burrrton]

Why is Crab required to shake his hand??

Because you're the one pulling all the "punk" bullsh*t out of your @ss to describe Sherman, numbnuts.

Whatever you feel about Sherman's jabbering (it's not my style, either), refusing to shake hands, giving shoves in the face, and on and on sure as *h3ll* isn't "acting like a man", for chrissakes.

I guess everyone's definition is different.

Yeah, and yours apparently depends on the jersey the guy wears on Sundays.

[kalibane]

Let me tell you something Future... Your strawmen are getting old. Now either you're stupid or you're trolling. But these posts are exactly why I say things that you interpret as me talking down to you. Look at you now looking like a pathetic little fanboy.

"Why is he obligated to shake his hand?" He's not ... But a "man" acts accordingly in the appropriate situation. They were at a charity event for God's sake. Sherman was simply greeting everyone at the event. Crabtree wasn't the only 49er at this event he wasn't the only Cardinal at the event. Sherman talked the same trash to all those guys that he talked to Crabtree. And Crabtree was the ONLY guy that decided to act like a punk b*tch at a charity event because he couldn't leave what happened on the field on the field.

Those aren't the actions of a "man"... those are the actions of a petulant child. You don't have to like Sherman. But when you can't code switch and hold it together for charity, something is wrong with you.

You post around here like Sherman's trash talk is unprecedanted. There are trash talkers that are way worse. Michael Jordan used to talk aboutu guys personal lives on the court... But I've watched you post many times about how much respect you have for him, how his greatness is unparalelled. You've even used him as the "anti-Sherman" at times. So what Trent Williams took a swing? Were you calling Deion Sanders a punk when he goaded Andre Rison into a fight on the field with his trash talk? Nope... you were busy cheering him on to the Lombardi Trophy.

You're weak Future... your arguments are weak. They are full of double standards and lies. Exhibit "A"... Sherman running to the media to talk about this incident. Lie. Sherman has never said anything in the media about what happened at that charity event. All he's said is you need to ask Crabtree about it. The story got out but it wasn't due to Sherman blabbing about it. You just wish it was.

Crabtree according to WIllie McGinniest's sources who were "really really REALLY" close to the situation acted like a straight punk... and then when Sherman tried to squash it on the field he acted like a Punk again. If you call that acting like a "Man", you're in sad shape. You claim you're willing to own up to when you're wrong... you don't get more wrong than this. You can qualify it if you want by saying "If what McGinnest" says is true ... but to pretend that what Crabtree did is how a "man" is supposed to act it only shows the quality of your own character... or I should say lack there of.

[Hawktown]

LOL! This is good stuff FUTURE!!! I actually laughed out loud!

[monkey]

I thought everyone already knew all of this...it all came out after the incident.
I suppose it is nice to have more confirmation of what we already knew though right?

The only thing about this whole incident that I personally find interesting, is all the football fans, including Seahawks fans, who still disagree with Sherman that Crabtree is mediocre, or feel that Sherman was exaggerating.
He wasn't exaggerating, and Crabtree IS mediocre. That's exactly what he is. Me-di-ocre.
Sherm was just telling it like it is.

[kalibane]

well the first source cited was Brandton Sherman so you do have to take that with a grain of salt, but now that a unbiased party (who was actually talking up the 9ers less than a minute before recounting the story) is citing mutiple sources confirming what happened it kind of really puts things into perspective, as is Future's ridiculousness. The one thing he was holding onto all this time was that the only account we had was from someone close to Sherman. Now he's changing his tune again.

Also I don't believe Crabtree is mediocre. He's not one of the best in the league or anything but he's a good receiver and if we were just talking about his ability and what he brings to the field I'd be happy to have him on the Seahawks.

[c_hawkbob]

Let me tell you something Future... Your strawmen are getting old. Now either you're stupid or you're trolling. But these posts are exactly why I say things that you interpret as me talking down to you. Look at you now looking like a pathetic little fanboy.

"Why is he obligated to shake his hand?" He's not ... But a "man" acts accordingly in the appropriate situation. They were at a charity event for God's sake. Sherman was simply greeting everyone at the event. Crabtree wasn't the only 49er at this event he wasn't the only Cardinal at the event. Sherman talked the same trash to all those guys that he talked to Crabtree. And Crabtree was the ONLY guy that decided to act like a punk b*tch at a charity event because he couldn't leave what happened on the field on the field.

Those aren't the actions of a "man"... those are the actions of a petulant child. You don't have to like Sherman. But when you can't code switch and hold it together for charity, something is wrong with you.

You post around here like Sherman's trash talk is unprecedanted. There are trash talkers that are way worse. Michael Jordan used to talk aboutu guys personal lives on the court... But I've watched you post many times about how much respect you have for him, how his greatness is unparalelled. You've even used him as the "anti-Sherman" at times. So what Trent Williams took a swing? Were you calling Deion Sanders a punk when he goaded Andre Rison into a fight on the field with his trash talk? Nope... you were busy cheering him on to the Lombardi Trophy.

You're weak Future... your arguments are weak. They are full of double standards and lies. Exhibit "A"... Sherman running to the media to talk about this incident. Lie. Sherman has never said anything in the media about what happened at that charity event. All he's said is you need to ask Crabtree about it. The story got out but it wasn't due to Sherman blabbing about it. You just wish it was.

Crabtree according to WIllie McGinniest's sources who were "really really REALLY" close to the situation acted like a straight punk... and then when Sherman tried to squash it on the field he acted like a Punk again. If you call that acting like a "Man", you're in sad shape. You claim you're willing to own up to when you're wrong... you don't get more wrong than this. You can qualify it if you want by saying "If what McGinnest" says is true ... but to pretend that what Crabtree did is how a "man" is supposed to act it only shows the quality of your own character... or I should say lack there of.

Perfect.

[RiverDog]

OK, I've taken a healthy dose of anti venom and my immunity should be pretty well built up as I fully expect some of you guys to lash out at me.

IMO Sherman's behavior immediately after the "Immaculate Deflection" was deplorable. His first act should have been to celebrate with his teammates and fans the Seahawks' second SB appearance in team history, but instead, he had to seek out his personal rival in Crabtree and offer what was interpreted as an insincere congratulations. He knew full well, based on Crabtree's past behavior at Fitz's get together, that the man had a very thin skin, yet as Crabtree was trying to leave the scene after that play, he opted not to celebrate with Malcom and instead stuck his mug in front of Crabs. If Sherman's motive was truly to offer a sincere congratulations to Crabs for a well played game, he should have saved it for the post game interview and not approached Crabs at such an emotional time just moments after seeing their season end.

But I don't think Sherman wanted to kiss and make up as he is suggesting. He wanted to stir the pot, like he always does. He had absolutely no intention of healing past wounds, quite the contrary. IMO he rather enjoyed pouring some salt into that wound and used it as an excuse to insult and humiliate Crabtree on national TV. I suppose you can rationalize Sherman's actions as being part of his game, but it's not consistent with the type of sportsmanship I was taught.

[kalibane]

Did you actually listen to the podcast River?

[RiverDog]

Did you actually listen to the podcast River?

No, not yet. Not enough time. I'll get to it, and if it causes me to revise my opinion, I'll post a retraction.

[c_hawkbob]

But I don't think Sherman wanted to kiss and make up as he is suggesting

Jeez Riv, not only did you not listen to the podcast but you didn't read what was written here either. It isn't Sherman suggesting anything, it's what is being said about the situation by those that were there. Like future, you've just taken a position and are now determined to defend it, facts be damned.

[kalibane]

Okay well I'll just fill in a little bit more then it may or may not make a difference.

According to McGinnist after the charity event there was a little back and forth on twitter and eventually it got to on the field we'll see eachother and if I get you, you give me my props if you get me I give you your props. Fast forward to the NFC championship game.

Well we know who got whom.. that was kind of a predetermined moment to squash the whole thing and Crabtree reacted with a push to the head and also said something. McGinnist kept making a point to call attention to things that Crabtree said that he couldn't repeat both at that moment on the field and in initiating the incident at Fitzgerald's charity event.

Now here is my take on your previous post. Even without what I just descrbed for added context we see all the time in a heated rivalry in sports where out of respect and sportsmanship guys head out immediately to congratulate their opponents before clebrating with their team. Typically for instance you'll see at the end of a game guys head straight out to the middle of the field to say good game and embrace their foe. Opposing QBs. Opposing coaches. And then they celebrate with their team. It happens all the time. And in fact we tend to come down on players as poor sports when they don't observe this unwritten code of conduct (for instance the Pistons refusing to congratulate the Bulls when the Bulls finally beat them in the playoffs). And in fact I've many times seen people argue that it is actually poor sportsmanship to celebrate in front of your defeated foe.

So how is this different? Just because it's Richard Sherman and he talks trash? I don't see it. Trash talk has become such a topic on this board over the past couple years so familiar names keep coming up. I'm going to mention Larry Bird again. Arguably the biggest trash talker in NBA history. He never stopped on the Court. But when he beat the Lakers or the Pistons he would immediately seek out Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas after the game before celebrating. No one ever accused Bird of stirring the pot. And make no mistake Bird and Isiah aren't friends by any stretch. Isiah used to make comments about how Bird would be just another player if he wasn't white and such.

So what we have here is a situation where uncharacteristically Sherman isn't talking trash through the entire NFC championship game. He just shut up and played. And when the game is over, in a moment Crabtree knew was coming due to their past interaction, Sherman extends his hand and says hell of a game. But is met with insults and a hand to the face. There was no justification for Crabtree to act that way. I don't care if he's dissapointed about losing.

If what McGinnist said is accurate, this is on Crabtree. Crabtree incited the entire thing. Couldn't back up what he said he was going to do to Sherman on the field and then didn't even have enough class to just say good game and keep walking.

[RiverDog]

Okay well I'll just fill in a little bit more then it may or may not make a difference.

According to McGinnist after the charity event there was a little back and forth on twitter and eventually it got to on the field we'll see eachother and if I get you, you give me my props if you get me I give you your props. Fast forward to the NFC championship game.

Well we know who got whom.. that was kind of a predetermined moment to squash the whole thing and Crabtree reacted with a push to the head and also said something. McGinnist kept making a point to call attention to things that Crabtree said that he couldn't repeat both at that moment on the field and in initiating the incident at Fitzgerald's charity event.

Now here is my take on your previous post. Even without what I just descrbed for added context we see all the time in a heated rivalry in sports where out of respect and sportsmanship guys head out immediately to congratulate their opponents before clebrating with their team. Typically for instance you'll see at the end of a game guys head straight out to the middle of the field to say good game and embrace their foe. Opposing QBs. Opposing coaches. And then they celebrate with their team. It happens all the time. And in fact we tend to come down on players as poor sports when they don't observe this unwritten code of conduct (for instance the Pistons refusing to congratulate the Bulls when the Bulls finally beat them in the playoffs). And in fact I've many times seen people argue that it is actually poor sportsmanship to celebrate in front of your defeated foe.

So how is this different? Just because it's Richard Sherman and he talks trash? I don't see it. Trash talk has become such a topic on this board over the past couple years so familiar names keep coming up. I'm going to mention Larry Bird again. Arguably the biggest trash talker in NBA history. He never stopped on the Court. But when he beat the Lakers or the Pistons he would immediately seek out Magic Johnson or Isiah Thomas after the game before celebrating. No one ever accused Bird of stirring the pot. And make no mistake Bird and Isiah aren't friends by any stretch. Isiah used to make comments about how Bird would be just another player if he wasn't white and such.

So what we have here is a situation where uncharacteristically Sherman isn't talking trash through the entire NFC championship game. He just shut up and played. And when the game is over, in a moment Crabtree knew was coming due to their past interaction, Sherman extends his hand and says hell of a game. But is met with insults and a hand to the face. There was no justification for Crabtree to act that way. I don't care if he's dissapointed about losing.

If what McGinnist said is accurate, this is on Crabtree. Crabtree incited the entire thing. Couldn't back up what he said he was going to do to Sherman on the field and then didn't even have enough class to just say good game and keep walking.

That's true. Boxing is a good example of opponents congratulating each other immediately after the final bell rings. But in this case, Sherman knew Crabtree was thin skinned, and in my opinion, knew that he would not take kindly to an offer of a handshake. IMO Sherman was trying to get under his skin, and he achieved exactly what he set out to do.

I am by no means defending Crabtree. From what I've heard and read, he's a bit of a jerk, and he was wrong for pushing Sherman away. He could have just as easily shook hands or at least not pushed him away and continued back to the sidelines. But two wrongs don't make a right.

[kalibane]

That doesn't make a lot of sense River to be honest. You're basically saying that Sherman is so machiavelian that he'd know that Crabtree wouldn't be receptive to his attempt to squash the beef right there (even though they had kind of agreed to handle it that way) and he manipulated him into getting just that reaction...

But yet he's not smart enough to realize that without the backstory to give the incident context that his rant to Erin Andrews would him look like the ass in this situation?

[RiverDog]

That doesn't make a lot of sense River to be honest. You're basically saying that Sherman is so machiavelian that he'd know that Crabtree wouldn't be receptive to his attempt to squash the beef right there (even though they had kind of agreed to handle it that way) and he manipulated him into getting just that reaction...

But yet he's not smart enough to realize that without the backstory to give the incident context that his rant to Erin Andrews would him look like the ass in this situation?

OK, I listened to the podcast, or at least the part that applied to Sherman and Crabtree. It doesn't change my opinion. IMO even with the 'give each other their props' agreement, there's no reason why Sherman had to go up to Crabtree right then and there. Save it for Twitter. Share that particular moment with your teammates and fans. Don't waste such a precious and unique thrill on some bum like Crabtree. IMO I'd much rather be happy and joyous celebrating with my teammates than I would going ballistic over some weak minded individual that can't handle life's ups and downs. Leave that bum alone and let him stew in his own sauce.

I still think that Sherman had a pretty good idea that Crabtree was going to blow, and that his offer to shake hands was insincere and meant to provoke rather than to congratulate. You guys can shake your heads and scratch your heinies over my take, but that's how I feel, and it doesn't matter to me if not a single one of you can understand or identify with my thoughts. I'm still pretty old fashioned, and Richard Sherman's style is quite the opposite to the values I was taught.

As far as his rant to Erin Andrews, yes, I do think Sherman was smart enough to manipulate Crabtree and yet misjudge the timing of his rant to make him look like an ass. It happens all the time, and intelligence has nothing to do with it. Even more deliberate, choreographed speeches can be poorly time and misjudged to make very smart people look like asses, let alone in a spur of the moment, highly charged atmosphere immediately after a game ending, season ending/extending play with nearly 70,000 fans in the loudest stadium on the planet screaming their lungs out.

[c_hawkbob]

So if an NFL player is a petulant child, and you know it, you have to walk on eggshells around him huh? Give him preferential treatment cause he's a boob and might get upset and cause a scene?! You can't treat him like a man and hold him to the same "code of honor" standards as the "grown up" players in the game, that would make you the culprit cause you knew he might react that way ... what a total crock Riv. Completely over the top, even for you.

[kalibane]

Yeah I'm not getting that. You have an agreement with someone but when it's time to collect on that agreement and the other party not only doesn't fulfill his end but refuses to in a massively disrespectful way it's YOUR fault because you knew the other party was sensitive in the past? OOOOOOkay.

[RiverDog]

So if an NFL player is a petulant child, and you know it, you have to walk on eggshells around him huh? Give him preferential treatment cause he's a boob and might get upset and cause a scene?! You can't treat him like a man and hold him to the same "code of honor" standards as the "grown up" players in the game, that would make you the culprit cause you knew he might react that way ... what a total crock Riv. Completely over the top, even for you.

Suppose that situation occurred in a bar, or out on the street. How do you think it would have ended? People end up dead in situations a hell of a lot more innocent than that one started out. IMO you know someone has a temper and can't handle things like a man, you leave them alone, you don't provoke them, even if you have all the best of intentions. I'm not saying Crabtree behavior was acceptable, quite the contrary. What I am saying is that Sherman has at least some degree of responsibility for this confrontation. It takes two to tango, two to make a fight. You guys are making it sound as if Sherman was completely innocent.

[kalibane]

Riv ... it didn't happen in a bar or on the street. It happened on a football field where a certain level of sportsmanship is expected no matter the result of the game.

You're right that it takes two to fight. That's why there wasn't a fight because Sherman didn't retaliate. You really have nothing to base your belief that the hand was insincere on other than your desire to believe it was insincere based on the fact that you don't care for Sherman's mouth.

But again in THIS game. Sherman didn't run his mouth to the Niners. At least not until Crabtree rebuffed the attempt to squash their beef.

[c_hawkbob]

So if an NFL player is a petulant child, and you know it, you have to walk on eggshells around him huh? Give him preferential treatment cause he's a boob and might get upset and cause a scene?! You can't treat him like a man and hold him to the same "code of honor" standards as the "grown up" players in the game, that would make you the culprit cause you knew he might react that way ... what a total crock Riv. Completely over the top, even for you.

Suppose that situation occurred in a bar, or out on the street. How do you think it would have ended? People end up dead in situations a hell of a lot more innocent than that one started out. IMO you know someone has a temper and can't handle things like a man, you leave them alone, you don't provoke them, even if you have all the best of intentions. I'm not saying Crabtree behavior was acceptable, quite the contrary. What I am saying is that Sherman has at least some degree of responsibility for this confrontation. It takes two to tango, two to make a fight. You guys are making it sound as if Sherman was completely innocent.

He was.

He did nothing more than Ali, Jordan, Bird, Prime Time and a great many more great athletes have done as a way to gain a competitive advantage. Getting in your opponent's head to throw them off their game is a time honored tradition and a revered tactic among the truly elite athletes. It's how it's supposed to be done, as long as you keep in on the field ... and in this case it was Crabs trying to take it off the field and then reusing to cede the argument when it was settled on the field that set Sherm off on his little rant that you seem to think is the greatest transgression in this entire matter.

[Futureite]

Why is Crab required to shake his hand??

Because you're the one pulling all the "punk" bullsh*t out of your @ss to describe Sherman, numbnuts.

Whatever you feel about Sherman's jabbering (it's not my style, either), refusing to shake hands, giving shoves in the face, and on and on sure as *h3ll* isn't "acting like a man", for chrissakes.

I guess everyone's definition is different.

Yeah, and yours apparently depends on the jersey the guy wears on Sundays.

Ya, this clown yaps "the refs gave them the game" - Dec 8th. But then suddenly he turns into a "good sport" and wants to shake hands 5 seconds after he breaks up a pass to go to the SB. He's an antagonizing asshole and after reading the posts here for 2+ yrs, I know there is no way in hell any of you are dumb enough to believe he was extending genuine goodwill. He's proven over and over again the type of character he reveals in wins and losses.

When he wins, first thing he is going to do is look to call someone out. "You idoits and pundits never learn"- immediately after game 1 last yr. We know what he did to Tom Brady after the gane. We also know he is going to blame someone (Dec 8th) if he loses. Here is another perfect example:

Thursday night 2012, makes up a story that JH honked and flipped off the Seattle bus after the game, which is ridiculous and a childish way to handle a loss. Game 1 2013 runs up and slaps JH on the ass as he is jogging into the locker room after the loss. Now he's flipped back to Mr. Sportsman again, and of course in the most genuine fashion, right? Then chides afterwards "I guess sportsmanship doesn't go both ways". Hey D-wad, how about you just keep your hands off your opponent's ass after a loss? Or better yet, teach us all about sportsmanship as you scream in another man's face again.

The guy is a walking contradiction and you have about zero room for calling other people out for getting pissed at him. Some people have the tempernent where they don't want to deal with someone like him, period. And I do not blame anyone that takes that approach.

[burrrton]

Future, I'm not so much defending Sherman as calling you out a little for acting like Crab is some innocent bystander in all this.

[Futureite]

Future, I'm not so much defending Sherman as calling you out a little for acting like Crab is some innocent bystander in all this.

Ok now I feel like the asshole lol. I am not at all sating Crab didn't have a hand in it. He has been one of my least favorite Niners up until 2 yrs ago when he dropped some of his ego and began to work to improve his game. I just rhink.there is a way to handle a dispute between two men, and IMO you don't involve other people or publicly call soneone out. I am totally against that. No doubt that Crab had a hand in it too, though.

[burrrton]

No doubt that Crab had a hand in it too, though.

Ok, thanks. I think we can debate degree here, and like I've said, I'm not one of those that likes the conflicts taking place in public.

Then, I'm not going to apologize for Sherm except to say I think what he does is virtually no different than many other 'trash talking' players except that he doesn't shut it down when Erin Andrews et al walks up to him like many do.

[RiverDog]

[ You guys are making it sound as if Sherman was completely innocent.

He was.

He did nothing more than Ali, Jordan, Bird, Prime Time and a great many more great athletes have done as a way to gain a competitive advantage. Getting in your opponent's head to throw them off their game is a time honored tradition and a revered tactic among the truly elite athletes. It's how it's supposed to be done, as long as you keep in on the field ... and in this case it was Crabs trying to take it off the field and then reusing to cede the argument when it was settled on the field that set Sherm off on his little rant that you seem to think is the greatest transgression in this entire matter.

Even Sherman's own coach, Pete Carroll, a player's coach that is not known for his heavy handed disciplinary tactics, said that Sherman made a mistake, was representing himself rather than the team, and called it a learning opportunity, yet you claim that Sherman was completely innocent?

You're going to have to explain why my take is so "over the top" when it conforms almost exactly with that of Pete Carroll's, a person that's just a little bit closer to the situation than either of us.

[RiverDog]

Why is Crab required to shake his hand??

Because you're the one pulling all the "punk" bullsh*t out of your @ss to describe Sherman, numbnuts.

Whatever you feel about Sherman's jabbering (it's not my style, either), refusing to shake hands, giving shoves in the face, and on and on sure as *h3ll* isn't "acting like a man", for chrissakes.

I guess everyone's definition is different.

Yeah, and yours apparently depends on the jersey the guy wears on Sundays.

Ya, this clown yaps "the refs gave them the game" - Dec 8th. But then suddenly he turns into a "good sport" and wants to shake hands 5 seconds after he breaks up a pass to go to the SB. He's an antagonizing asshole and after reading the posts here for 2+ yrs, I know there is no way in hell any of you are dumb enough to believe he was extending genuine goodwill. He's proven over and over again the type of character he reveals in wins and losses.

When he wins, first thing he is going to do is look to call someone out. "You idoits and pundits never learn"- immediately after game 1 last yr. We know what he did to Tom Brady after the gane. We also know he is going to blame someone (Dec 8th) if he loses. Here is another perfect example:

Thursday night 2012, makes up a story that JH honked and flipped off the Seattle bus after the game, which is ridiculous and a childish way to handle a loss. Game 1 2013 runs up and slaps JH on the ass as he is jogging into the locker room after the loss. Now he's flipped back to Mr. Sportsman again, and of course in the most genuine fashion, right? Then chides afterwards "I guess sportsmanship doesn't go both ways". Hey D-wad, how about you just keep your hands off your opponent's ass after a loss? Or better yet, teach us all about sportsmanship as you scream in another man's face again.

The guy is a walking contradiction and you have about zero room for calling other people out for getting pissed at him. Some people have the tempernent where they don't want to deal with someone like him, period. And I do not blame anyone that takes that approach.

I guess I either don't qualify as a Seahawk fan or you haven't been reading my comments.

But before you start thinking you have a compadre on this issue, I clearly disagree with your take about Crabtree. IMO he was just as responsible for the incident as Sherman, perhaps more. Like I said, it takes two to tango.

[c_hawkbob]

[ You guys are making it sound as if Sherman was completely innocent.

He was.

He did nothing more than Ali, Jordan, Bird, Prime Time and a great many more great athletes have done as a way to gain a competitive advantage. Getting in your opponent's head to throw them off their game is a time honored tradition and a revered tactic among the truly elite athletes. It's how it's supposed to be done, as long as you keep in on the field ... and in this case it was Crabs trying to take it off the field and then reusing to cede the argument when it was settled on the field that set Sherm off on his little rant that you seem to think is the greatest transgression in this entire matter.

Even Sherman's own coach, Pete Carroll, a player's coach that is not known for his heavy handed disciplinary tactics, said that Sherman made a mistake, was representing himself rather than the team, and called it a learning opportunity, yet you claim that Sherman was completely innocent?

You're going to have to explain why my take is so "over the top" when it conforms almost exactly with that of Pete Carroll's, a person that's just a little bit closer to the situation than either of us.

Again you're 100% fixated on Sherman's reaction to Crab's refusal ON THE FIELD to man up and bury the hatchet on the BS Crabs Had initiated OFF THE FIELD.

Sherman elected rather than to ruin one of Crab's teammates post charity event parties to settle the matter on the field (the manly, by your bragged about old school code of honor ethos thing to do) and when he did so and offered his hand to say "let this be the end of the matter" Crabs punked out and mushed him in the face in front of the whole world.

Of course Sherm was pissed!, but what he did was a 2 on a 10 scale, what crabs did was a 9 on the same scale.

[RiverDog]

Again you're 100% fixated on Sherman's reaction to Crab's refusal ON THE FIELD to man up and bury the hatchet on the BS Crabs Had initiated OFF THE FIELD.

Either your not reading my comments or you have a very poor estimate of what constitutes 100%. From my last post, just above yours:

"But before you start thinking you have a compadre on this issue, I clearly disagree with your take about Crabtree. IMO he was just as responsible for the incident as Sherman, perhaps more. Like I said, it takes two to tango."

That doesn't sound like 100% to me. More like 50% or less. You're the one that's adapted an inflexible, Sherman's 100% innocent and pure as the wind driven snow stanch with your refusal to assign even the tiniest fraction of responsibility to him for this incident.

Let me ask you this: If Sherman was 100% innocent as you claim he was, why was it he apologized? Why did Pete Carroll characterize Sherman's actions as a mistake?

Here's some quotes for you to ponder. Pete Carroll: "We aren't perfect, and we all make mistakes," Carroll said Monday on 710 ESPN Seattle radio.

Richard Sherman: "Obviously I could have worded things better and could obviously have had a better reaction and done things differently," he (Sherman) said during the interview. And lastly, Richard Sherman's apology: "I apologize for attacking an individual and taking the attention away from the fantastic game by my teammates... That was not my intent,"


http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs/2013/st ... n-comments

[c_hawkbob]

I didn't say 100% anything, but I'm looking at the entire picture whereas you seem to be unable to get past Sherman's heat of the moment reaction. My saying that Sherm is innocent is a matter of comparative culpability. Sure he popped off in the heat of the moment, but again Sherman 2, Crabs 9.

If you believe the comparative culpability ratio to be 50% or less, why are you still harping on Sherm's part in it?

And don't bother linking anything more on the matter, I've read every single thing you're trotting out already, read 'em when they were written.

[RiverDog]

I didn't say 100% anything, but I'm looking at the entire picture whereas you seem to be unable to get past Sherman's heat of the moment reaction. My saying that Sherm is innocent is a matter of comparative culpability. Sure he popped off in the heat of the moment, but again Sherman 2, Crabs 9.

If you believe the comparative culpability ratio to be 50% or less, why are you still harping on Sherm's part in it?

And don't bother linking anything more on the matter, I've read every single thing you're trotting out already, read 'em when they were written.

When I said that some of you felt that Sherman was "completely" innocent, you replied "he was." That's the same as saying 100%, is it not?

The reason I'm still "harping" on Sherman is because no one, except Futureite, has given the slightest indication that Sherman was in the wrong. If you and the others would have admitted that Sherman bears at least some degree of responsibility, I would have quit harping on him. But instead, you characterized my comments as being "over the top, even for you", which raised my blood pressure a bit.

If you're reading every single thing I post when I write them, you certainly are not demonstrating it, or else you wouldn't be saying some of the things you've said about my take. There's a number of statements I've made within this thread that indicates Crabs had at least some responsibility, which would imply that I have considered more than just the heat of the moment reaction. The Fitzgerald incident that acted as a primer came out within days of the NFCCG, and I knew then that there was more to the story than we saw in the post game rant. With the exception of the "give me my props" part, there wasn't a whole lot of new information in the podcast.

[c_hawkbob]

Who made it your job to make sure us deluded Seahawks fans don't get to seeing things through Seahawks colored lenses?

You overstate things, you stake out a position as soon as a story breaks and defend it at all costs, then when other facts come to light you backpeddle, pretend you were only trying to be the voice of reason in the first place and accuse me of not hanging closely enough on your every word ... I'm not sure I get it, but it doesn't set well.