Are the Eagles Trading Up?

[RiverDog]

There's a rumor about a block buster 3 way trade between the Eagles, Titans, and Chargers.

The Eagles would receive the No. 2 overall pick from the Titans, which they would then use to draft Mariota.
The Chargers would receive Sam Bradford, the Eagles’ first-round pick and the Titans’ second-round pick.
The Titans would receive Philip Rivers and the Eagles’ third-round pick.

http://philadelphia.suntimes.com/phi-sp ... d-mariota/

It would make sense out of the Bradford-for-Foles trade a few months back, and probably not the best news for newly acquired quarterback Tim Tebow.

[NorthHawk]

Sounds a little far fetched to me from the Chargers point of view.
Bradford and a 1st and 2nd for Rivers seems like a net loss for SD unless they can get a stud QB as Bradford in all probability won't last the year.

[RiverDog]

It would be pretty sweet if you're an Eagles fan. Trading up to the #2 overall from #20 for just a third rounder and a gimpy quarterback that you didn't really want in the first place? Sounds pretty cheap to me.

[savvyman]

I don't think there is a GM (Or Fan) anywhere that would trade the opportunity to draft Mariotta for an aging Phillip Rivers (who is also in the last year of his contract) and a second round pick in exchange for a third round draft pick.

[obiken]

Its not that its the fact that a QB with 2 or 3 years left is worth it to a team in re-build mode.

[RiverDog]

I don't think there is a GM (Or Fan) anywhere that would trade the opportunity to draft Mariotta for an aging Phillip Rivers (who is also in the last year of his contract) and a second round pick in exchange for a third round draft pick.

An 'aging' Phillip Rivers might not be the ideal quarterback for a rebuilding team, but Ken Whisenhunt's offense may not be suitable for a quarterback like Marcus Mariota, who played almost exclusively in a shotgun while at Oregon, which is why the Titans are listening to offers for the #2 pick. Remember Whisenhunt's only SB appearance with the Cards and who his starting quarterback for that team was? An aging, over the hill quarterback by the name of Kurt Warner, who was 38 when the Cards went to the SB. Rivers is 33 years old, so there's plenty of tread left on the tires, particularly in a system like Whisenhunt's. Tennessee has the third most cap space in the league, plenty of room to rework a deal if Rivers works out for them, so I personally think that this rumor could have some logical aspects to it for them.

[obiken]

River you are buying into the system syndrome with Marcus, I don't think with him it applies. IF you look at a Kiper's guide in 2012, RW's bio reads like Mariota's. In fact Brock Huard said that RW is a compact Marcus Mariota, we'll see. The Nightmare scenario is the Jets the Jets are the worst.

[jshawaii22]

6' 4" @ 220 lbs. He's the same weight as RW, so he's pretty lean and will be subject to opening his body to hits that he never had in college. That will be as much as a test as getting under center, which he never did in college.

js

[RiverDog]

River you are buying into the system syndrome with Marcus, I don't think with him it applies. IF you look at a Kiper's guide in 2012, RW's bio reads like Mariota's. In fact Brock Huard said that RW is a compact Marcus Mariota, we'll see. The Nightmare scenario is the Jets the Jets are the worst.

I'm not sure, obi. Mariota performed well in workouts and would seem to have the tools to succeed as a traditional pocket passing quarterback. But there's a risk. He's spent so much time in the shotgun that teams are unsure how he'll react when he has to read defenses from within a few feet from the LOS as opposed to 5 yards behind it. There's still a bias against spread quarterbacks, and coaches could be hesitant to bet their careers on Mariota's ability to convert to a pro style offense.

If Mariota drops to the Jets slot, Chipper will be fall all over himself in an attempt to move up as it would require far less capital to trade into their slot vs. the Titans.

As far as a quarterback's physical characteristics subjecting them to a higher injury risk, I don't feel that's near the factor as is knowing how to avoid placing themselves in situations that would subject them to injury, an attribute that Russell Wilson has excelled in and that Jake Locker could never figure out.

[obiken]

See River, I think MM's biggest weakness is his durability. Tall skinny guys get hammered, (6-4) stockier types can take the pain better. I would say 6-2 is perfect. RW at 5 10 1/2 is stocky and a hard guy to line up. With Marcus I have doubts. JJ Birden who played WR for Oregon and then the Chiefs was on the Oregon live site last year, and he said he needed that extra year to bulk up from 175 to 190. He said the difference in hits between CFB and the NFL is WAY bigger than between HS, and CFB. He said those guys make a living at hurting people and they are men!! I laughed but its true.

[RiverDog]

See River, I think MM's biggest weakness is his durability. Tall skinny guys get hammered, (6-4) stockier types can take the pain better. I would say 6-2 is perfect. RW at 5 10 1/2 is stocky and a hard guy to line up. With Marcus I have doubts. JJ Birden who played WR for Oregon and then the Chiefs was on the Oregon live site last year, and he said he needed that extra year to bulk up from 175 to 190. He said the difference in hits between CFB and the NFL is WAY bigger than between HS, and CFB. He said those guys make a living at hurting people and they are men!! I laughed but its true.

I really don't think physique makes that big of a difference in a quarterback's durability. At 6'5", Peyton Manning, although obviously in good physical condition, has never been a buffed out super stud of an athlete, but prior to his neck injury, he'd gone something like 10 or 12 years without missing a start, and hasn't missed one since he's returned. And on the opposite end of the spectrum, you have Jake Locker, who at 6'3" and 220 lbs, was constantly hurt both in college as well as the pros. It's not a coincidence when some players are constantly getting hurt and others can avoid the DL for decades. IMO injuries to a quarterback has more to do with style of play and management of risk than does a player's physical make-up.

If Mariota can master the art of injury avoidance like Manning has and as Russell Wilson appears to have, I don't think his lack of bulk will be a factor in maintaining his health.

[Hawk Sista]

While I don't think you can look at every tall QB and say they are an injury waiting to happen, it does stand to reason that RWs compact body and running style are better for his health than say a tall and skinny RG3's body is to his health - meaning body type (while not the only factor) is indeed a factor. I have to point out the obvious here, though. The type of QBs Brady and Manning are do not compare to the Mariota, Wilson, RG3, Kap crowd, regardless of the shared vertical comparison. Marcus can flat out scoot and is far more athletic. I think he outran both RW and Colin Kap in the 40 at the combine (I know, Bob - it's just the Choni Olympics). If he runs elusively, like RW, his build may not come into play so much, but if he runs all loosey-goosey like RG3 does - caveat emptor to whatever team takes him.

Still, I'd take him over Winston on character alone. Winston feels like JaMarcus part 2 with his weight gain(s) and off the field issues.

[RiverDog]

Still, I'd take him (Mariota) over Winston on character alone. Winston feels like JaMarcus part 2 with his weight gain(s) and off the field issues.

Yea, the JaMarcus Russell comparison is causing quite a commotion. It seems that Winston's head coach at FSU, Jimbo Fisher, was JaMarcus Russell's OC at LSU. But the weight gain controversy might just be a red herring. Winston was photographed wearing a leash strapped around his waist, which caused the tight belt effect that results in us beer bellied males wearing our shirts untucked, but the media ran with it as it was too much for them to resist.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... ype-weight

[Hawk Sista]

I have seen multiple photos of Winston and not just the one in the article you link above. We all remember the skinny kinda doughy picture of Tom Brady and how that photo did not matter at all. Perhaps this will be the same. Still, I think Winston has a problem with disciplne (and weight). Though I do not know him personally, I have read enough to suggest as much. As Mike Mayock said (just one dude's opinion (though it is shared by everyone interviewed on 710 including Brock, Salk, Drew and Damon), giving millions of dollars to a guy in his early 20s with discipline and character problems is not going to result in more discipline and better character.

To me, he looks chunky for a YOUNG premier athlete. https://www.google.com/search?q=jameis+winston+fat&biw=1487&bih=890&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1pw-VYKsN871oAS75oG4Bw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&dpr=1#imgrc=kcrW6qDHwwcl4M%253A%3B3wzvjZX0ZYjB_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flarrybrownsports.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2015%252F03%252FJameis-Winston-fat.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flarrybrownsports.com%252Fcollege-football%252Fjameis-winston-fat-pro-day%252F258644%3B469%3B501

[NorthHawk]

I don't think body type or body fat % is much of a big deal with QBs whose abilities don't include a lot of running.
Winston is more of a traditional QB in that matter. He will run a little, but it's not something I would consider a threat on every play like Wilson or Kaep.

Regarding the JaMarcus comparison. I think it's a little overblown.
Character concerns at the top of the draft are a big deal, but I don't think the character concern is in regard to not wanting to put in the work to be a successful NFL QB.
As well, the money isn't as big as when JaMarcus was drafted so that in itself might rein in some of the temptations.

The other character concerns might be a bigger issue. I'm just glad we don't have to find a QB at this point.

[c_hawkbob]

Maybe we can find a flattering comparison photo:

[RiverDog]

I have seen multiple photos of Winston and not just the one in the article you link above. We all remember the skinny kinda doughy picture of Tom Brady and how that photo did not matter at all. Perhaps this will be the same. Still, I think Winston has a problem with disciplne (and weight). Though I do not know him personally, I have read enough to suggest as much. As Mike Mayock said (just one dude's opinion (though it is shared by everyone interviewed on 710 including Brock, Salk, Drew and Damon), giving millions of dollars to a guy in his early 20s with discipline and character problems is not going to result in more discipline and better character.

To me, he looks chunky for a YOUNG premier athlete. https://www.google.com/search?q=jameis+winston+fat&biw=1487&bih=890&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1pw-VYKsN871oAS75oG4Bw&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ&dpr=1#imgrc=kcrW6qDHwwcl4M%253A%3B3wzvjZX0ZYjB_M%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flarrybrownsports.com%252Fwp-content%252Fuploads%252F2015%252F03%252FJameis-Winston-fat.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Flarrybrownsports.com%252Fcollege-football%252Fjameis-winston-fat-pro-day%252F258644%3B469%3B501

I was responding to you about your contention that Winston had gained weight. He hasn't. The media saw that pic of him not noticing that it was highlighted by a leash he was wearing around his waist and immediately started the rumor that he had gained weight. He weighed in at the combine at 6'3 3/4", 231 lbs. Mariota was measured at the same height and just 9 pounds lighter. Winston looks bigger because as you said, he's not as well defined.

But I do agree with you and Mayock about his risk factor. I'd be very hesitant to take him with the #1 overall. But his weight would be the least of my concerns.