RiverDog wrote:
Going off my memory, and you old timers correct me if I'm wrong, the '97 draft we ended up with a 2nd #1 pick due to trading Rick Mirer to the Bears, in '00 we swindled the Cowboys out of their #1 by trading them Joey Galloway, and in 2010, in Tim Ruskell's gift to Pete and John, we got an extra pick by trading our 2009 2nd rounder to the Broncos for a player they drafted that turned out to be a bust (last name Smith?).
RiverDog wrote:
Going off my memory, and you old timers correct me if I'm wrong, the '97 draft we ended up with a 2nd #1 pick due to trading Rick Mirer to the Bears, in '00 we swindled the Cowboys out of their #1 by trading them Joey Galloway, and in 2010, in Tim Ruskell's gift to Pete and John, we got an extra pick by trading our 2009 2nd rounder to the Broncos for a player they drafted that turned out to be a bust (last name Smith?).
mykc14 wrote:That sounds about right to me. Man we really have screwed over other teams when we get that second first round pick. Joey Galloway wasn't terrible for the Cowboys, although he wasn't worth a 1st but Mirer, Smith (can't remember his last name for sure but I'm pretty sure he was a DB), and Wilson were all fleece jobs by our FO.
TriCitySam wrote:From the guys I trust reading, there likely are 3 blue chip defensive players: Carter, Anderson and Wilson. Seems a fair bet we will have a shot at one of those. I kind favor an Edge, not that I don't like Carter, but historically that is the more valuable position in the draft. I'd be thrilled with any.
Old but Slow wrote:Whether through the draft or free agency, we need to see improvement at linebacker. Brooks and Barton had big tackle numbers, largely because the defense was on the field so much. I just read a post on another site that quoted something called SIS (?) which collected stats on average tackle depth. In other words, how much yardage is the tackler giving up past the line of scrimmage.
Barton was the worst in the top 40 linebackers. He gave up 3.7 yards a tackle. Next worst was 3.3. Again some blame goes to the defensive front overall, as Brooks was 5th worst at 2.7 yards per.
There are few linebackers rated very high in this draft, but there are 2-3 that would warrant a first or 2d round pick (not #5). Drew sanders is projected as a first rounder, and would be a great pick at 20, if he is there. Nolan Smith and Trenton Simpson are also looking good.
I don't have a handle on free agents.
NorthHawk wrote:Schmitz seems to be fairly athletic and able to get to the 2nd level, but I get the impression he is a step below some of the other Centers from previous years that went high in the draft.
For me, along with the quickness, it's important that he have some sand in his pants to at least delay a bull rush up the middle. We can't expect him to nullify Donald, or other top interior DL, so delaying them is the best we can hope.
At least he shouldn't be a turnstile like we've seen since Unger was traded.
NorthHawk wrote:QB? I hope one of the better ones is still there at 5. Hooker is injured (ACL) so he probably won't be ready to even practice at a high rate until mid season, and he has a lot to learn about the Pro game, unlike some of the others in
this class. He might have some talent but he has a much lower floor than the top 4.
I think that the plan after trading away Wilson was clearly to take our lumps and draft a QB high in this draft and I hope they don't now stray from that plan. If we re-sign Geno, it should be to a short term deal with an easy out in a couple
of years with a low first year Cap hit. We don't want to be back in the Cap situation we had with Wilson when we don't have to and miss out on top FA's that can really help especially along the DL. We currently have around $31M in Cap space but the expected cost of signing the Rookies should be around $15 -$16 Million leaving us with about $16M to spend on re-signing Geno and any FA + having a reserve to account for signing players due to injury to some starters.
NorthHawk wrote:On the other note, we are scheduled to pay $36M for Adams and Diggs at S. That has to change in some manner so maybe there can be some room to restructure or a tough decision to make a post June 1st cut and spread the Cap hit over 2 years. The bottom line is there's too much money tied up in that group.
Old but Slow wrote:First I wonder why I need to sign in to post. And, yes, I check the "remember me" box. This has happened 2-3 times now, and it is tiresome because I have to look up what password I am using here. Hope someone fixes it.
Old but Slow wrote:First I wonder why I need to sign in to post. And, yes, I check the "remember me" box. This has happened 2-3 times now, and it is tiresome because I have to look up what password I am using here. Hope someone fixes it.
The more I get into this draft class, the more I am seeing the fluid nature of the beast. Earlier, I thought that this was a good group of centers, but after Pran decided to stay in school, it looks to me as though there is no worthy pick before round 3. The guard crop is a little better, but none likely before round 2, and that may be a stretch. Blythe was not a good signing for us, as the team tried the Rams approach of smaller, more maneuverable centers, but he simply got pushed around too much. I would do the same thing this year, signing a free agent vet, but one with more beef. Paired with a 3d round guard it could work out, maybe Steve Avila or Cody Mauch.
If, for some demented reason, we don't take a QB at #5, I would hope that the team would sign 2 QBs later. Having 2 competing would increase the odds of finding a winner. I am not a Hooker fan, partly because after he recovers from his injury he will be 28 years old, which is late for a rookie. He has talent, though, and he has huge hands, which I see as a positive.
While WR is not our greatest need, there is a pretty sizable group of middle round guys who could fill the 3d receiver spot and maybe be able to replace Lockett in the future. And there is variety. Big, fast: Quentin Johnston, Jonathan Mingo, Cedric Tillman. Small, shifty, fast: Zay Flowers, Josh Downs, Tank Dell, Tyler Scott. Possession, routes, hands: Jake Bobo, Jordan Addison, Marvin Mims.
On the other side, there are some players that I see as much overrated, like O'Cyrus Torrence G, who is big, slow, and fat and often mocked in the first round. Peter Skoronski is another guard that is being rated too high. Not a bad player, but not first round and maybe not second. Defensive end Myles Murphy has been mocked to us by some, which is ridiculous, although he would be decent second rounder. Similarly, I don't see Tyree Wilson in the top 10.
The Combine starts on the 28th, and some of this will come out in the wash. A player I have hopes for if his arms are long enough to satisfy our FO, is Mazi Smith, a big (337#) defensive tackle who moves well and is a run stopper with some pass rush moves. We would likely need to use our #20 on him if his arms are over 33".
I reserve the right to change my mind at any moment.
govandals wrote:I don't get the love for Tyree Wilson. I see him mocked to us at #5 a lot, which feels too rich for me. Watch him in a 3 point stance, he is often the last guy off the snap. I don't see explosiveness or great change of direction. When rushing the passer, if he does not win with power he really doesn't have another move, he is not "bendy". He is a rare physical specimen, though, and I'm really curious to see how he tests at the combine.
NorthHawk wrote:Outside of defensive upgrades amongst the front 7, we still need a true #3 WR. JS has implied (or maybe I inferred) that he intends to approach this draft similar to last year meaning it's accumulating talent as the primary purpose. With that in mind, a good WR early in the 2nd might be a possibility.
NorthHawk wrote:LB looks a little thin this year, but we should be able to improve the talent at RB and maybe score another one like we did with Walker. The talent looks like it might extend into the middle or late 3rd round.
DT is a big need and it's easy to hope for the 5th pick to be one, but who knows if one is there when we select. I love Carter's talent, but in my mind I keep seeing Aaron Curry as the comparison with regards to
desire to be the best and his being out of shape in College for 2 years is also a worry.
So I'm hoping for a QB at #5 and addressing the DL after and in FA.
RiverDog wrote: We just signed Marquise Goodwin, who is an excellent WR, to a 3 year, $19M contract. We're set at WR, at least for the next couple of years.
RiverDog wrote: We just signed Marquise Goodwin, who is an excellent WR, to a 3 year, $19M contract. We're set at WR, at least for the next couple of years.
govandals wrote:Goodwin is a UFA, he played for 1.2 million last year. WR3 is absolutely a need this year. I would be OK if they used the second 2nd or a 3rd round pick on a WR. Penny Hart, Dee Eskridge, Cade Johnson and Dareke Young (I think) are JAGS. I'd guess they will bring in another veteran again, maybe Goodwin comes back on a cheap deal. I see Robert Woods was released today, he knows the Rams system so he may be an option.
Old but Slow wrote:I agree, NorthHawk. There could be some late (6th-7th round) value in the WR class if they opt for a one-dimensional type player. Perhaps an undersized route runner or something. That kind of pick can lead to an high upside with little risk.
There could be some late running backs, too. Devon Archane, for instance, is small (185) but has inhuman burst and world class speed. He is tough and can find the holes. Probably go in the 5th. Deuce Vaughn is similar, even smaller, but is exciting. Rob Staton lists 20 running backs that he projects to go in the draft, as well as 21 wide receivers. The only position group with that kind of depth is edge rushers (25).
This draft and offseason process is addicting. I find myself prowling around low joints seeking info. Getting into conspiracy theories, medical recovery rates, salary structures and the cap. It is all consuming. And then the Combine, the great body sale, the underwear olympics and (gasp) more conspiracies. And the Draft. The Holy coven and the largesse is distributed far and wide, and we celebrate, or commiserate (each to his own), and it is over. It is over. Withdrawal. It is painful, soul wrenching and never ending...until Training Camp!.
I will see myself out.
NorthHawk wrote:With 4 picks in the first 52, we could get 4 of our needs including a WR and still improve the team.
I liked Eskridge, but he's never been healthy and hasn't produced to date. There should still be some good WRs into the 3rd round - if the Big Boards and Mock drafts are anywhere near close to the value they set on players.
Maybe Young has a future. He didn't show a lot last year and WRs arrive readier than most positions, but maybe it's taken him a while to get the Pro game straight.
Hawktawk wrote:Goodwin was injured and missed several games last year although he was very good when he played . Eskridge seemed like a serious reach and it didn’t help he got his brain scrambled with a vicious pile up early his rookie year . He had blurred vision for a couple months . He battled injury’s last year as well . He’s shown some flashes but looks like a 3rd down guy maybe , definitely a bad pick .
We need to talk about Tyler . He’s starting to slide like a qb to avoid contact , having nagging injuries and even a couple drops . I love Tyler and I’ll take what he’s still got but we better think ahead .
NorthHawk wrote:Teams often draft a WR as a #3 but move them up the ladder as they develop and the starters age out of the system or head to Free Agency if their price is more than the team wants to pay.
So let’s say we draft Josh Downs for example. He might start out as a #3, but replace Lockett in a couple of years.
RiverDog wrote:I didn't like the Eskridge pick because of the position. The 2nd round is awfully high for a #3 receiver especially given our needs.
I agree about Lockett. We might want to re-visit his contract, especially if we're going to overpay for Geno.
Aseahawkfan wrote:Herndon Hooker looks like a Pete type of QB. I can see us drafting him. His TD-int ratio is exactly what Pete loves.
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