Week 1: vs 49ers

[Aseahawkfan]

What's frustrating is an inability to beat a key division rival at home that only put up 17 points after you retooled the offense to make it better.

It won't get easier playing on the road in Frisco. We seem to have completely lost our HFA that used to be so strong.

I wasn't even expecting much contending this year, but if losing at home to a depleted Frisco makes it seem like we got worse than last year, not better.

[trents]

Boy, what a disappointment. I'm pissed at Mac not going for it on 4th and less than one on the Niners' 26 with 3:30 or so left in the game. Put Milroe in there and let him sneak it, QB sweep away from Bosa's side, etc. There's about a 95% chance of getting a first down in that situation. At the very least line up as if you're going for it and take the 5-yard delay of game and maybe we get lucky and get them to jump. There's virtually no difference between a 34 yd. FG attempt and a 39-yard kick. I didn't have the sound on at the time, so I didn't hear what the announcers were saying about that decision, but it has to be one of the stupidest I've seen out of a Seahawk HC for a long time.

Woolen has to go. The guy cost us big time yesterday. Trade K9! He had 20 yards on 10 carries yesterday while Charbs had twice the production. I'll say it again: Charbs is a better fit for this offense.

I do like our offense better than last year's edition. It's what kept the game close. Our defense needs a more consistent pass rush.

I'm putting this one squarely on Mac's shoulders. He makes anymore dumb ass decisions like he did yesterday, and I'm off the bandwagon.

Greg Olsen expressed surprise that Mac elected to not to go for the first down. I think everyone watching intuitively felt that decision would come back to bite the Hawks and it did.

[River Dog]

I'm putting this one squarely on Mac's shoulders. He makes anymore dumb ass decisions like he did yesterday, and I'm off the bandwagon.

Greg Olsen expressed surprise that Mac elected to not to go for the first down. I think everyone watching intuitively felt that decision would come back to bite the Hawks and it did.

Thanks, Olsen is kinda sorta a former offensive lineman, so that shouldn't surprise me that he advocated going for it.

I don't know if Mac's defensive background had anything to do with his decision or not, but being that he is defense, the decision has the potential of alienating his offensive players, particularly the big uglies, who are born to play smash mouth and love running the ball. Coaches are going for it on 4th and 2 inside their own 30 all the time yet Mac is too gutless to go for it on 4th and less than a yard on his opponent's 26.

Plus, what kind of football was it that Mac was wanting to get back to when he fired Grubbs? Running, right? Where better to make a statement than a 4th and less than one opportunity in front of a home crowd and put the game in the bank? A decision like this could easily cause a locker room split. Mac was playing not to lose instead of playing to win.

It's going to take me a while to get over this, so you'll have to have patience with me while I vent.

[Agent 86]

I am gonna defend Macdonald on that 4th down call to kick a FG. Hindsight always 20/20. And TBH, I wanted them to go for it, but I understood the decision:
- was 4th and a long 1 if I remember correctly
- run game was not doing a whole lot at that point and if you were going to go for it, it had to be a run play I think
- had a chance to take a lead at home against a division rival who was missing Kittle and Jennings at that point
- he has a reliable FG kicker
- 49ers kicker was having major issues and would not have been confident going in for a game tying FG from any distance
- the D, despite giving up some big plays, was playing pretty well considering the Time Of Possession difference (huge!)
- taking a lead forces the 49ers to do something, which they ultimately did

Not saying the decision was right, but all the factors above are in play and you have to make a decision within probably 5 seconds after that 3rd down catch by Kupp. He went with what he felt was right in that moment. If not for Riq Woolen having 2 horrible plays, the result most likely would have been a worse case scenario of we get the ball back really late with a chance to get into FG range for a game winner, or it goes to OT.

I am completely disappointed with the loss, and it's gonna take more time and drafts to get this team up to speed to be a true contender again. Bottom line, you need an elite QB nowadays, Darnold ain't that. He is serviceable, we already had that in Geno.

And boy did I have a horrible take earlier in the week about K9 vs Charbs. Walker was outplayed by Charbs yesterday, althought neither one was really impressive, but Walker was extremely disappointing. Blame to the O-line as well for that.

[River Dog]

I am gonna defend Macdonald on that 4th down call to kick a FG. Hindsight always 20/20. And TBH, I wanted them to go for it, but I understood the decision:
- was 4th and a long 1 if I remember correctly

No, it was 4th and less than a yard, ie 4th and inches. I don't have a video of the spot, but here's a copy/paste from a commentary on the game:

No matter what he says it doesn't make the call correct. There are too many plays with success rates that are too high on fourth and inches to ever justify kicking a field goal in that situation. The Seahawks even pulled one of them off in the preseason when they tush pushed Jalen Milroe to a first down against the Chiefs.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/se ... r-AA1M4Gdn

You put Milroe in there and run a sneak or a keeper and the odds of converting with a young, athletic ball carrier has to put it in the 90%+ category. Then factor in that it wasn't do-or-die, that had you failed to make it, you would leave your opponent in their own territory with all your timeouts still needing just a FG to win.

I appreciate your take and expressing an opposite POV, but there's simply no way of putting a good look on this call. Put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig.


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[Aseahawkfan]

Mac's a first time head coach. No proof he can do the head coaching job. He's never done it. You gotta expect a learning curve. You let him learn.

My problem is more with Schneider and the draft after draft after draft picking players that don't stand out, don't shine, and get talked up for making a play here or there. No depth. Weak competition for positions. Settling on players like Woolen that aren't improving or Coby who seems to have hit his peak. Our WR unit now consists of one guy that can play well. The best D-line guy is a guy we traded for named Leonard Williams because Schneider can't seem to draft top notch talent.

This is how many years since Schneider has drafted a top notch player like they did in the first five years when Pete's "Always compete" method was working to build a champion.

What is Schneider's draft strategy? Assess talent badly, draft no one that does well, hire an inexperienced coach with no proven track record as head coach when you are one of the wealthiest owners in the league.

Man, this is just worse than I thought it would be. I did not expect to lose at home to a depleted 49ers team that suffered key injuries during the game and have no run game when no one has film on our new blocking scheme. I hope they improve in week 2 as right now this was a kick in the gut.

[Agent 86]

No, it was 4th and less than a yard, ie 4th and inches.

Here is what Macdonald said today. Not to argue your source, but it wasn't inches, it was a full yard if not a bit more than that. Again, not saying it was right, and I agree they should have went for it, just trying to put everyone in Macdonald's head at the time. It's easy for anyone at home or in the stands to easily say "go for it", but when you're the actual person making the decision, it's never going to be easy and you will be judged either way. I find it too easy for people to call out the play call based on the result is all. Macdonald is the least of any problem we have IMO.

Lol, I did get a laugh out of the lipstick on a pig comment though



Macdonald said that while the team’s analytics model favored going for it on fourth down, there were a couple of factors that prompted him to kick the field goal. Chief among those was a confidence in his defense, which had limited the 49ers to just three points over the past 45 minutes of game time.

“It was a favor to go for us on our model,” Macdonald said. “You’re making these things in real time, but it was a full yard. And I felt like if we took the lead right there, we were playing well on defense. And if we (make the field goal and) kick the ball off to them, it’s not four-down territory for them yet. I think they would still punt it if we got a three-down stop in minus territory.

If you go and you get the first down, you’re not guaranteed a touchdown,” he added. “You’re gonna knock some time off the clock, and ultimately you’ll probably end up with a score on that, and then San Fran’s gonna be in a four-down situation coming down the field, … which is a difficult situation too on defense. I think the numbers are about 40, 50, 60% score rate in that situation. So that’s what was going through my mind.”

Macdonald was then asked whether he factors in the message he’s sending to his team in those difficult decisions. For instance, going for it on fourth-and-1 signals a confidence in the offense’s ability to convert a short-yardage situation, while kicking a field goal signals a confidence in the defense to preserve a three-point lead.

“I mean, of course it factors in,” Macdonald said. “But look, I trust the heck out of our guys. I think they trust the heck out of us. We’re trying to win the game. I felt pretty strongly about the decision in real time. But it wasn’t easy. There’s definitely an argument to go the other way – let’s go run it for a yard or (call) our best fourth-and-1 play at the time.

“But I’m not worried about how the guys feel. I think they have our backs, and I know we have theirs.”

[River Dog]

No, it was 4th and less than a yard, ie 4th and inches.

He is what Macdonald said today. Not to argue your source, but it wasn't inches, it was a full yard if not a bit more than that. Again, not saying it was right, and I agree they should have went for it, just trying to put everyone in Macdonald's head at the time. It's easy for anyone at home or in the stands to easily say "go for it", but when you're the actual person making the decision, it's never going to be easy and you will be judged either way. I find it too easy for people to call out the play call based on the result is all. Macdonald is the least of any problem we have IMO.

Lol, I did get a laugh out of the lipstick on a pig comment though



Macdonald said that while the team’s analytics model favored going for it on fourth down, there were a couple of factors that prompted him to kick the field goal. Chief among those was a confidence in his defense, which had limited the 49ers to just three points over the past 45 minutes of game time.

“It was a favor to go for us on our model,” Macdonald said. “You’re making these things in real time, but it was a full yard. And I felt like if we took the lead right there, we were playing well on defense. And if we (make the field goal and) kick the ball off to them, it’s not four-down territory for them yet. I think they would still punt it if we got a three-down stop in minus territory.

If you go and you get the first down, you’re not guaranteed a touchdown,” he added. “You’re gonna knock some time off the clock, and ultimately you’ll probably end up with a score on that, and then San Fran’s gonna be in a four-down situation coming down the field, … which is a difficult situation too on defense. I think the numbers are about 40, 50, 60% score rate in that situation. So that’s what was going through my mind.”

Macdonald was then asked whether he factors in the message he’s sending to his team in those difficult decisions. For instance, going for it on fourth-and-1 signals a confidence in the offense’s ability to convert a short-yardage situation, while kicking a field goal signals a confidence in the defense to preserve a three-point lead.

“I mean, of course it factors in,” Macdonald said. “But look, I trust the heck out of our guys. I think they trust the heck out of us. We’re trying to win the game. I felt pretty strongly about the decision in real time. But it wasn’t easy. There’s definitely an argument to go the other way – let’s go run it for a yard or (call) our best fourth-and-1 play at the time.

“But I’m not worried about how the guys feel. I think they have our backs, and I know we have theirs.”

In an attempt to settle the argument, I went through my recording. I did not get a good, down the LOS look at it, but the tip of the ball appeared to me to be touching the 19-yard line and the first down marker was just outside the 18. But the play-by-play announcer said it was "less than a yard," and that's a pretty good source.

And let's be clear. The failure to go for it was just one of my problems with his decision. Why not at least line up as if to go for it and try to get the defense to jump and take the delay of game penalty if they don't? There can't be that big of a difference for a kicker like Jason Meyers in a 37 yard attempt vs. a 42 yarder that the risk would outweigh the reward if you did get the D to jump. No one has addressed that point.

[Aseahawkfan]

In an attempt to settle the argument, I went through my recording. I did not get a good, down the LOS look at it, but the tip of the ball appeared to me to be touching the 19-yard line and the first down marker was just outside the 18. But the play-by-play announcer said it was "less than a yard," and that's a pretty good source.

And let's be clear. The failure to go for it was just one of my problems with his decision. Why not at least line up as if to go for it and try to get the defense to jump and take the delay of game penalty if they don't? There can't be that big of a difference for a kicker like Jason Meyers in a 37 yard attempt vs. a 42 yarder that the risk would outweigh the reward if you did get the D to jump. No one has addressed that point.

This is not what cost us the game or the years of mediocrity and the glaring lack of national level superstars this team lacks. I think this is the weakest I've seen our talent across eras. Even the 2-14 Seahawks of old times had players like Tez that were nationally recognized.

You have to be pretty horrible at drafting to not have a nationally recognized player at almost any position. The most recognized player last year was DK. We traded him. Now JSN is the most talented player on the team right now on offense. No one else even rates.

Do you know what kind drafting futility it takes to draft this badly this long? It's sad. It really is.

I seriously miss Paul Allen. He would not tolerate this team in its current state. I hope they find another owner soon that wants to run a winning team that is like Paul Allen or as close as we can get.

[River Dog]

In an attempt to settle the argument, I went through my recording. I did not get a good, down the LOS look at it, but the tip of the ball appeared to me to be touching the 19-yard line and the first down marker was just outside the 18. But the play-by-play announcer said it was "less than a yard," and that's a pretty good source.

And let's be clear. The failure to go for it was just one of my problems with his decision. Why not at least line up as if to go for it and try to get the defense to jump and take the delay of game penalty if they don't? There can't be that big of a difference for a kicker like Jason Meyers in a 37 yard attempt vs. a 42 yarder that the risk would outweigh the reward if you did get the D to jump. No one has addressed that point.

This is not what cost us the game or the years of mediocrity and the glaring lack of national level superstars this team lacks. I think this is the weakest I've seen our talent across eras. Even the 2-14 Seahawks of old times had players like Tez that were nationally recognized.

You have to be pretty horrible at drafting to not have a nationally recognized player at almost any position. The most recognized player last year was DK. We traded him. Now JSN is the most talented player on the team right now on offense. No one else even rates.

Do you know what kind drafting futility it takes to draft this badly this long? It's sad. It really is.

I seriously miss Paul Allen. He would not tolerate this team in its current state. I hope they find another owner soon that wants to run a winning team that is like Paul Allen or as close as we can get.

Like in all close games, there are multiple plays and decisions one can point to and say it cost us the game, so in that sense, I agree with what you're saying. It in itself didn't cost us the game. Neither did JSN's fumble or on the last play where Bosa stuffed Lucas into Darnold and caused the fumble. Riq makes that pick and we're not having this discussion. And I don't necessarily disagree with the long-term stuff you've mentioned.

But this game decision really sticks out because every armchair quarterback with even the most elementary knowledge of the game can understand it. Coaching decisions are the easiest of things to argue about. And for me, it's really frustrating because I honestly expected us to win handily.

[Aseahawkfan]

Like in all close games, there are multiple plays and decisions one can point to and say it cost us the game, so in that sense, I agree with what you're saying. It in itself didn't cost us the game. Neither did JSN's fumble or on the last play where Bosa stuffed Lucas into Darnold and caused the fumble. Riq makes that pick and we're not having this discussion. And I don't necessarily disagree with the long-term stuff you've mentioned.

But this game decision really sticks out because every armchair quarterback with even the most elementary knowledge of the game can understand it. Coaching decisions are the easiest of things to argue about. And for me, it's really frustrating because I honestly expected us to win handily.

Losing at home in the first game of the season to a division contender that lost a major player in Deebo and lost two other important players during the game makes the coaching decisions the least of our worries. We are losing due to weak talent.

How many more years do Seattle fans have to watch the NFL news and season while their players don't even play well enough to merit national attention? Weak, weak talent base is our problem.

I think over the years us getting hyped by Rashaad Penny and Geno Smith and other players that no contending team would even have as their "stars" is a sign of how desperate we are to have strong talent.

The last time I remember being a contending team with elite talent was when the Legion of Boom was booming. That's when we had nationally recognized superstars, NFL press following our every move, start of the season power rankings having us going after a real Super Bowl. NFL specials on the team. People making funny memes and videos with Marshawn Lynch at the press podium. That's when you know your team is hot and contending.

This has barely merited the attention of Seattle fans, much less the national NFL fanbase, for going on six or seven years. Last time we drafted top tier talent in any kind of abundance was when Pete Carroll first took over and built a contender.

Now we got Schneider picking the groceries and he's picking barely noticeable players. He's signing barely replacement level talent with Darnold.

Take a step back and think about this team not just now, but for years, practically since our last Super Bowl trip. Draft after draft after drafter of barely noticeable players with talent at a level where we don't even want to re-sign them to extended contracts.

You can freak out over MacdDonalds decision all you want, but this is a problem years in the making by John Schneider and his inability to draft top tier talent. He's gotta go if this season doesn't show a vast improvement.

Losing the first game of the year to a division rival at home is not "bad decisions in a close game", it's a sign you have been drafting like trash and haven't built a contender even when your division rival has lost talent. Are the 49ers as good as past years? Nope. Still couldn't up more than 10 points at home.

Normally when a team has been missing the playoffs or not contending, they are building up talent from better drafts. But not us. We just stay in this weak to mediocre non-contention range for a decade now. A fricking decade.

[River Dog]

Losing at home in the first game of the season to a division contender that lost a major player in Deebo and lost two other important players during the game makes the coaching decisions the least of our worries. We are losing due to weak talent.

How many more years do Seattle fans have to watch the NFL news and season while their players don't even play well enough to merit national attention? Weak, weak talent base is our problem.

I think over the years us getting hyped by Rashaad Penny and Geno Smith and other players that no contending team would even have as their "stars" is a sign of how desperate we are to have strong talent.

The last time I remember being a contending team with elite talent was when the Legion of Boom was booming. That's when we had nationally recognized superstars, NFL press following our every move, start of the season power rankings having us going after a real Super Bowl. NFL specials on the team. People making funny memes and videos with Marshawn Lynch at the press podium. That's when you know your team is hot and contending.

This has barely merited the attention of Seattle fans, much less the national NFL fanbase, for going on six or seven years. Last time we drafted top tier talent in any kind of abundance was when Pete Carroll first took over and built a contender.

Now we got Schneider picking the groceries and he's picking barely noticeable players. He's signing barely replacement level talent with Darnold.

Take a step back and think about this team not just now, but for years, practically since our last Super Bowl trip. Draft after draft after drafter of barely noticeable players with talent at a level where we don't even want to re-sign them to extended contracts.

You can freak out over MacdDonalds decision all you want, but this is a problem years in the making by John Schneider and his inability to draft top tier talent. He's gotta go if this season doesn't show a vast improvement.

Losing the first game of the year to a division rival at home is not "bad decisions in a close game", it's a sign you have been drafting like trash and haven't built a contender even when your division rival has lost talent. Are the 49ers as good as past years? Nope. Still couldn't up more than 10 points at home.

Normally when a team has been missing the playoffs or not contending, they are building up talent from better drafts. But not us. We just stay in this weak to mediocre non-contention range for a decade now. A fricking decade.

You're looking at it from a larger perspective, and I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm looking at the much smaller picture, the one we saw yesterday afternoon and irrespective of what's occurred over the past few years. It was a very winnable game that we lost due at least in part to what in my opinion was a poor game decision made by our head coach.

[Aseahawkfan]

You're looking at it from a larger perspective, and I'm not saying that you're wrong. I'm looking at the much smaller picture, the one we saw yesterday afternoon and irrespective of what's occurred over the past few years. It was a very winnable game that we lost due at least in part to what in my opinion was a poor game decision made by our head coach.

I'm sorry, but I'm tired of this garbage. I really am. I no longer care about just making the playoffs. Or winning one playoff game. We watched real contention and strong team building years ago. We know what it is. This is not it. It hasn't been it for years. That's why we moved on from Pete.

I knew we are a few years from contending, but losing the first game of the year at home to a key division rival while fully healthy with a retooled offense isn't just not contending...it's stagnation or regression.

Only message sent game 1 was "Let's not even look like we improved for another year."

This is more of the same. I would prefer the team start looking for a new owner that will work to get us back to winning. Jodi Allen and the current management are wheel spinning at this point. We're not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a great draft pick. We're in this middle limbo going nowhere with nothing to look forward to because I've lost all confidence in the ability of John Schneider and ownership to build a contending team with top tier talent.

Once you've tasted real contention where your team is one of the top in the league, this mediocre, middling position is the worst. I barely care about the draft as Schneider just keeps picking guys that aren't challenging for the top tier. Where is the fire? Where are the chips on the shoulder? Where is the drive to win?

I guess we'll see how we do in Pittsburgh with an old Aaron Rodgers and DK looking to show us he's still got it.

[NorthHawk]

It was the first game of the year and a lot of teams suck early. Since we have a new OC, it might take a few games to get things rolling.
Like you said this team is a couple of years away is what I believe as well so what I’m looking for is progress on Offense, mostly scheme and improved OL play. The run game showed some signs of life but for some reason they went away from that. I don’t think they opened the full playbook and for my liking they almost ignored the TEs.

The Defense played fairly well except for some real bad plays but being on the field so long and it being the first game they may have been tired at the end.

I’m frustrated with the loss but I didn’t know what to expect so it doesn’t bother me that much. I hope to see some improvement next week.

[Aseahawkfan]

It was the first game of the year and a lot of teams suck early. Since we have a new OC, it might take a few games to get things rolling.
Like you said this team is a couple of years away is what I believe as well so what I’m looking for is progress on Offense, mostly scheme and improved OL play. The run game showed some signs of life but for some reason they went away from that. I don’t think they opened the full playbook and for my liking they almost ignored the TEs.

The Defense played fairly well except for some real bad plays but being on the field so long and it being the first game they may have been tired at the end.

I’m frustrated with the loss but I didn’t know what to expect so it doesn’t bother me that much. I hope to see some improvement next week.

I always hope for better.

Under John Schneider after Pete used up his college knowledge in those first few years drafting, we always been a few years of drafting away for the last ten years.

[NorthHawk]

I think the College Knowledge is overblown except for the conference the coach comes from. They drafted players that never played against USC so real time knowledge and seeing them perform on the field is non-existent for those players.
The coaching contacts can be a real thing. College coaches they trust and know can be an invaluable source of information and insight into players.
I think the one big draft they had was largely good fortune in that they got players in later rounds that others hadn't selected earlier. If they had inside knowledge from playing against them and knew they were that good, they would have selected them earlier. I think that good luck was largely used up in 2 or 3 drafts and it's been a drought ever since. But that doesn't excuse not selecting good players along the OL early and it has bit the team hard for the last 5 years or thereabouts.

[Aseahawkfan]

I think the College Knowledge is overblown except for the conference the coach comes from. They drafted players that never played against USC so real time knowledge and seeing them perform on the field is non-existent for those players.
The coaching contacts can be a real thing. College coaches they trust and know can be an invaluable source of information and insight into players.
I think the one big draft they had was largely good fortune in that they got players in later rounds that others hadn't selected earlier. If they had inside knowledge from playing against them and knew they were that good, they would have selected them earlier. I think that good luck was largely used up in 2 or 3 drafts and it's been a drought ever since. But that doesn't excuse not selecting good players along the OL early and it has bit the team hard for the last 5 years or thereabouts.

It's not just people Pete played. It's players he tried to recruit or was scouting to recruit. Pete has a love of secondary players. He had an idea for how to build an amazing secondary using tall, long CBs. He had an idea for a defense and how to build it his way. With guys like Sherm and Kam and other non-prototypical CBs and Safeties he turned into the monster we know as The Legion of Boom. He knew he could get the guys he wanted in later rounds.

Pete also knew about Marshawn Lynch. He knew about his buddy Justin Forsett.

I'll give Schneider credit for Russell Wilson. That seems to have been a Schneider pick.

After Pete had been out of college ball for a long while, our drafts fell off badly. And we started competing for talent against others that saw Pete's eye for talent with tall, long CBs and took them ahead of us.

Those first few years Pete and the entire coaching staff was poaching unsung talent they had inside knowledge of to build Pete's monster defense.

Even Dan Quinn knowing how good Michael Bennett was to bring him in was a bit of inside knowledge.

It was a magical time when it all came together. We don't seem to have it now. Schneider hasn't had great drafts for years. The best player Schneider drafted in recent memory was DK Metcalf. He's one of the only players we re-signed that had decent trade value. I'd bet that was probably a Pete pick looking for a tall, fast receiving TD that he finally found and then Russell leaves or falls off. That was a shame.

It's been a downward spiral for a decade now. I'm starting to believe Schneider was a major part of the problem because he can't seem to pick top notch talent to replace what was lost. His best move in recent memory on defense was trading for Leonard Williams.

Look at these drafts. Where are the superstar names? They are terrible drafts. That's why we're where we are.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sea/draft.htm