Johnny Football: Another Party Foul

[RiverDog]

Lying to your head coach.

According to a league source, Manziel lied directly to coach Mike Pettine about when the video was filmed. He also encouraged his friends to lie about when the video was recorded, according to the Fox Sports report.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14231 ... line-video

[NorthHawk]

Some people just don't get that it's a privilege to play in the NFL.

[mykc14]

This story just keeps getting worse for Johnny.

[SalmonBB]

Another illustrative story to add to the human saga of addiction.

[Hawktawk]

Kenny Stabler was such a drunk the players used to joke about Jack Daniels breath in the huddle. I'm sure Joe Namath in the day wasn't any Choirboy either. Some of the all time greats couldn't make a team now.

In a way I feel a little bit sorry for the kid living in a fishbowl like this. In my early 20's I was a labor foreman in Vancouver WA. We would party all night, come to work, puke behind the dumpster and strap on our tool belt. If I had been held to this standard I would not have had a job. I grew up and figured it out eventually.
Hopefully Johnny will too.

[RiverDog]

Kenny Stabler was such a drunk the players used to joke about Jack Daniels breath in the huddle. I'm sure Joe Namath in the day wasn't any Choirboy either. Some of the all time greats couldn't make a team now.

In a way I feel a little bit sorry for the kid living in a fishbowl like this. In my early 20's I was a labor foreman in Vancouver WA. We would party all night, come to work, puke behind the dumpster and strap on our tool belt. If I had been held to this standard I would not have had a job. I grew up and figured it out eventually.
Hopefully Johnny will too.

Yea, I remember a player from the Houston Oilers commenting about the difference in the huddle between Stabler and Marc Wilson, a straight laced QB from BYU, of smelling whiskey vs. smelling milkshakes.

[Seahawks4Ever]

The difference between Joe Willie and Ken the Snake Stabler juxtaposed to Johnny Foosball is that their partying didn't adversely affect their playing.

Johnny Manziel has done NOTHING in the NFL but is partying like his team has never lost a game and is in the play offs every year and won the last 3 Super Bowls, all because of Johnny Football. The guy is a FOOL!!! he is partying himself right out of the league. He is a marginal talent at best but people like his dad have been over blowing his so called talent for so long he actually believes he is GREAT when he is a BUM. The Browns were the one team that was willing to give this Bozo a chance, and he has chit all over it. Lying to your coach and thinking your HC is so dumb as to believe they were old videos of him being wasted?? What a slap in the face. I think Manziel wanted everyone to forget what a bust Ryan Leif was and wants to be a bigger bust. Ryan leif is saying "Go Johnny Go! Chuga Lug Chuga Lug Chuga Lug"

[Seahawks4Ever]

The difference between Joe Willie and Ken the Snake Stabler juxtaposed to Johnny Foosball is that their partying didn't adversely affect their playing.

Johnny Manziel has done NOTHING in the NFL but is partying like his team has never lost a game and is in the play offs every year and won the last 3 Super Bowls, all because of Johnny Football. The guy is a FOOL!!! he is partying himself right out of the league. He is a marginal talent at best but people like his dad have been over blowing his so called talent for so long he actually believes he is GREAT when he is a BUM. The Browns were the one team that was willing to give this Bozo a chance, and he has chit all over it. Lying to your coach and thinking your HC is so dumb as to believe they were old videos of him being wasted?? What a slap in the face. I think Manziel wanted everyone to forget what a bust Ryan Leif was and wants to be a bigger bust. Ryan leif is saying "Go Johnny Go! Chuga Lug Chuga Lug Chuga Lug"

[Seahawks4Ever]

Wow, my first double post on this site, SORRY!

[RiverDog]

The difference between Joe Willie and Ken the Snake Stabler juxtaposed to Johnny Foosball is that their partying didn't adversely affect their playing.

Johnny Manziel has done NOTHING in the NFL but is partying like his team has never lost a game and is in the play offs every year and won the last 3 Super Bowls, all because of Johnny Football. The guy is a FOOL!!! he is partying himself right out of the league. He is a marginal talent at best but people like his dad have been over blowing his so called talent for so long he actually believes he is GREAT when he is a BUM. The Browns were the one team that was willing to give this Bozo a chance, and he has chit all over it. Lying to your coach and thinking your HC is so dumb as to believe they were old videos of him being wasted?? What a slap in the face. I think Manziel wanted everyone to forget what a bust Ryan Leif was and wants to be a bigger bust. Ryan leif is saying "Go Johnny Go! Chuga Lug Chuga Lug Chuga Lug"

That's true, but I do think that more is expected out of today's professional athletes than back in Stabler's day. There were lots of party animals back in the 60's in all major league sports, some like Mickey Mantle that were very successful despite their off field drinking and partying, but wasn't as much of an issue as the reporters didn't cover their antics at the rate at which they are covered nowadays. IMO Stabler and players like him would not have survived in today's environment as due to all the scrutiny, teams are more concerned about the image their players project to the public.

[Hawktawk]

I think Manziel can actually play pretty well if he ever gets on the field. Its a big IF

[Zorn76]

To say this kid has a problem is an understatement.
People don't go to rehab to learn to drink normally.
They go because they need to quit drinking, period.

His career setbacks are just the beginning.
The guy needs to get help and stick with it.

[RiverDog]

I was once told by a rehab counselor that most chemical dependence rehabs are unsuccessful and that they can tell within the first few days which ones will be successful and which ones won't. Aldon Smith went through rehab, too, and we saw where that got him.

[Hawktawk]

Maybe Johnny is an alcoholic. He's certainly a social alcoholic like lots of early 20's kids. But the reasons for rehab were never disclosed. He was filmed rolling up a 20 dollar bill in a restroom in Vegas so I think alcohol may not have been his biggest problem.....The team did not discipline him and in fact named him starter after knowing that he was drinking again so this whole twist sort of confuses me. It seems they may have sent the young man mixed signals.

I still have hope for the kid, I really do. I mean with Seneca and Tebow out of the league I have to have some stray mutt to take in and defend.

[RiverDog]

Maybe Johnny is an alcoholic. He's certainly a social alcoholic like lots of early 20's kids. But the reasons for rehab were never disclosed. He was filmed rolling up a 20 dollar bill in a restroom in Vegas so I think alcohol may not have been his biggest problem.....The team did not discipline him and in fact named him starter after knowing that he was drinking again so this whole twist sort of confuses me. It seems they may have sent the young man mixed signals.

I still have hope for the kid, I really do. I mean with Seneca and Tebow out of the league I have to have some stray mutt to take in and defend.

I'm glad you have a sense of humor about your stray mutts, Hawktalk.

There's no question that Manziel is an alcoholic. If you were one of us that called out Futureite for his defense of Aldon Smith then you must recognize that the very same situation exists with Johnny Football. It isn't just a one time mistake that can be attributed to his youth. The guy has a serious problem.

[kalibane]

Disagree about pretty much everything said about Johnny's "alcoholism". The only thing about his behavior that truly bothers me is lying and conspiring to have other people lie to his coach. But there is no real evidence of actual alcoholism. This is not to say that he couldn't be one but this is what I know:

1. Rehab is a PR move for famous people. Doesn't mean jack. It's not real rehab.
2. No evidence that drinking has affected his play.
3. No DUI's. He got pulled over for having an argument with his girlfriend in a car.

It actually bothers me the way the Browns are handling this. This was a Texas A&M QB who went to party at a Univ. of Texas party. They knew who they were getting and they are trying to make him something he's not. The media has just been trying to push the party boy narrative since he was drafted. This is a rich kid, golden boy football player who enjoys his celebrity in his early 20's. What's he done that Brett Favre didn't do?

Unless there are a bunch of actual incidents that have been covered up or he's been missing meetings and being a general idiot with regard of approaching his work, I think the Browns were stupid to cave to the media narrative around his "partying". They spent a first round pick on him, they need to see what he can do, the constant yanking him in and out of the lineup doesn't help him or the organization.

[Hawktawk]

It actually bothers me the way the Browns are handling this. This was a Texas A&M QB who went to party at a Univ. of Texas party. They knew who they were getting and they are trying to make him something he's not. The media has just been trying to push the party boy narrative since he was drafted. This is a rich kid, golden boy football player who enjoys his celebrity in his early 20's. What's he done that Brett Favre didn't do?

Unless there are a bunch of actual incidents that have been covered up or he's been missing meetings and being a general idiot with regard of approaching his work, I think the Browns were stupid to cave to the media narrative around his "partying". They spent a first round pick on him, they need to see what he can do, the constant yanking him in and out of the lineup doesn't help him or the organization.

I agree Kal. Clearly the Browns organization is a dumpster fire.The smart thing for the franchise is to play the kid and see what he has regardless of their long term plans for him.The most dense fan on their couch can see it.
They are a month late with that decision right now and apparently trying to make him go sit in the corner and be a good boy instead, one week after naming him the starter KNOWING he was using alcohol.

Dumb.Theres a reason they are perennial cellar dwellers.

[Hawktown]

Disagree about pretty much everything said about Johnny's "alcoholism". The only thing about his behavior that truly bothers me is lying and conspiring to have other people lie to his coach. But there is no real evidence of actual alcoholism. This is not to say that he couldn't be one but this is what I know:

1. Rehab is a PR move for famous people. Doesn't mean jack. It's not real rehab.
2. No evidence that drinking has affected his play.
3. No DUI's. He got pulled over for having an argument with his girlfriend in a car.

It actually bothers me the way the Browns are handling this. This was a Texas A&M QB who went to party at a Univ. of Texas party. They knew who they were getting and they are trying to make him something he's not. The media has just been trying to push the party boy narrative since he was drafted. This is a rich kid, golden boy football player who enjoys his celebrity in his early 20's. What's he done that Brett Favre didn't do?

Unless there are a bunch of actual incidents that have been covered up or he's been missing meetings and being a general idiot with regard of approaching his work, I think the Browns were stupid to cave to the media narrative around his "partying". They spent a first round pick on him, they need to see what he can do, the constant yanking him in and out of the lineup doesn't help him or the organization.

+1

[Hawktawk]

Heres the clincher guys. I just read that Bed Bath and Beyond is offering a "Johnny Football" shot glass with approval of the NFL. That about says it for the hypocrisy of this league if it is indeed true.
Shades of the official NFL Beast nut grab merchandise offering.

[Seahawks4Ever]

Is Manziel an alcoholic? His father believes he is. There is a question; If alcohol is causing problems in your life, you have a problem with alcohol.

"What has Manziel done that Brett Favre didn't do? If I remembver right Brett became addicted to prescription drugs, the drugs he was being given by Packer team doctors. Then he binged drank when he couldn't get the pills. Actually, the Favre situation is nothing like the Manziel situation.

Manziel is in danger of drinking his way out of the NFL. If he can't curtail his drinking to save his career he PROBABLY is an ALCOHOLIC. If you can't put down the booze then that says it all.

It don't matter what Joe Willie and/or Kenny Stabler "got away" with back in the day, what matters is what is happening TODAY.

[Zorn76]

It's lying and trying to cover stuff up (with a little help from his friends) that's also pizzing the Browns off, and rightfully so.
The guy pulls the stunt in Texas, fresh off getting a lecture from the franchise about his behavior and what's expected of him.

That's a clear lack of respect, IMO, regardless of how much coverage the situation gets.

[RiverDog]

Disagree about pretty much everything said about Johnny's "alcoholism". The only thing about his behavior that truly bothers me is lying and conspiring to have other people lie to his coach. But there is no real evidence of actual alcoholism. This is not to say that he couldn't be one but this is what I know:

1. Rehab is a PR move for famous people. Doesn't mean jack. It's not real rehab.
2. No evidence that drinking has affected his play.
3. No DUI's. He got pulled over for having an argument with his girlfriend in a car.

It actually bothers me the way the Browns are handling this. This was a Texas A&M QB who went to party at a Univ. of Texas party. They knew who they were getting and they are trying to make him something he's not. The media has just been trying to push the party boy narrative since he was drafted. This is a rich kid, golden boy football player who enjoys his celebrity in his early 20's. What's he done that Brett Favre didn't do?

Unless there are a bunch of actual incidents that have been covered up or he's been missing meetings and being a general idiot with regard of approaching his work, I think the Browns were stupid to cave to the media narrative around his "partying". They spent a first round pick on him, they need to see what he can do, the constant yanking him in and out of the lineup doesn't help him or the organization.

Here's an article dated July 25th, about 2.5 months after the draft:

Team officials had bought into Manziel's pre-draft promises to tone down the partying and leave his frat-boy lifestyle back in College Station, Texas, and they've been stunned by his non-stop antics, sources said.

Since they traded up to draft him in the first round, No. 22 overall, on May 8, he's partied hard in New York City, Las Vegas twice, Los Angeles with hip-hop star Drake, Austin, Tex., Houston, Tex. and at pop star Justin Bieber's house in Beverly Hills with the likes of world boxing champ Floyd Mayweather.

The romp across the country -- complete with photos of him drinking magnums of champagne and spraying it around clubs -- has been completely opposite of what Manziel told the Browns during his private workout for them at Texas A&M and during his pre-draft visit to Cleveland. It's also been contrary to what he said publicly in the months leading up to the draft and after the Browns traded up to No. 22 to select him.


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.s ... _john.html

All of that in 2.5 months.

It took him no time at all for Manziel to break his promise to the Browns coaching staff almost immediately after the draft and it still doesn't bother him to lie to his head coach or to try to convince others to lie for him in order to cover up his drinking. He voluntarily enters rehab...ok, pseudo rehab...then falls off the wagon within a few months. That tells me that he wasn't very serious about it in the first place, so maybe rather than volunteering, he was voluntold by his coaches as a requirement to get out of their dog house?

I can think of no other explanation for Manziel's behavior other than some sort of substance abuse. Outside of legal issues like DUI's or domestic violence that results in a suspension of some sort, it's pretty hard to cite physical, medical evidence that alcohol use affects on field performance. There's all sorts of examples of athletes drinking like a fish the night before a game then performing at a high level in an athletic contest the next day, so it's pretty hard to quantify how or even if it affects on field performance. If Mickey Mantle hit two homers the day after he drank all night and puked during BP, who's to say that he would have hit 4 had he been sober?

The fact that he's been lying to his coaches about his alcohol use is compelling. Lying and alcoholism goes hand-in-hand, whether you're lying about it to your parents, to a cop, to your spouse, to your boss, or to yourself.

[kalibane]

Favre was hard partying before the prescription drug addiction. There just weren't camera phones. This whole thing had been blown out of proportion and now people are just piling on.

Riv,

That just makes the Browns stupid. And honestly I don't see anything all that terrible about the party spree you described. It's like everyone is taking all the examples of how these are athletes are entitled and putting it all on him. He is not that different from a lot of other players. I don't think Manziel is going to be good but when I'm listening to Ray Lewis get sanctimonious about nightlife it's just getting to ridiculous levels.

Like I said if there is stuff we don't know then so be it... But all this pathologizing and hyper scrutinization of behavior that is not at all foreign to professional athletes is getting old to me. Seems to me that his main problem is he doesn't know how to manage this kind of stuff like say Derek Jeter.

[RiverDog]

Favre was hard partying before the prescription drug addiction. There just weren't camera phones. This whole thing had been blown out of proportion and now people are just piling on.

Riv,

That just makes the Browns stupid. And honestly I don't see anything all that terrible about the party spree you described. It's like everyone is taking all the examples of how these are athletes are entitled and putting it all on him. He is not that different from a lot of other players. I don't think Manziel is going to be good but when I'm listening to Ray Lewis get sanctimonious about nightlife it's just getting to ridiculous levels.

Like I said if there is stuff we don't know then so be it... But all this pathologizing and hyper scrutinization of behavior that is not at all foreign to professional athletes is getting old to me. Seems to me that his main problem is he doesn't know how to manage this kind of stuff like say Derek Jeter.

The problem with his party spree was his pledge not to. The Browns knew he had a party reputation, asked him about it, and wouldn't have traded up to get him had he told them the truth, that he wasn't going to change his lifestyle for them. Manziel had no intention of curbing his excesses. He lied to them. If you knew how concerned your new employer was about your partying, that you have a reputation, and at the very first opportunity you go out on a nation wide party spree, that's pretty good evidence of alcoholism IMO.

Manziel isn't like 95% of the other players in the league. He's a high profile, #1 draft choice, face of the franchise, leader of the team. The Browns have every right to insist on a certain standard of behavior, above and beyond what they'd expect out of a 5th round OG, because Manziel is getting paid a premium for that expecation. That expectation wasn't there, or at least not to the same degree, when Joe Namath was behaving in a similar manner. Quite the contrary, the Jets owner at the time, Sonny Werblin, told Namath that he wanted him to enjoy himself, to be accessible to the public. Times have changed.

The Browns were stupid. They were stupid when they ignored the red flags that other teams, like the hometown Texans and Cowboys, heeded, and not only took him with a #1, they traded up to get him. Manziel has Ryan Leaf written all over him.

[Hawktown]

He should never had lied to the Browns FO but, IMO, they need to let the guy live his life the way he wants to and pick on him when it affect his job. This BY NO MEANS signals alcoholism. This looks like a young dude who likes to have a drink, so what. If he wakes up in the morning and has a shot as a normal way of life, then he definitely has a problem with drinking. I personally am one who thinks that if you preform well at work, your boss has NO BUSINESS worrying about your personal life. The browns should have NEVER asked ANYONE to be someone they are not, just like asking RW to be a pure pocket passer.

This would be like the hawks front office not being into religion and asking RW to cut the crap in order to draft him. Just dumb.

[Hawktawk]

Jeezus. Free Johnny please. I know it was a close score but it was boring as hell. Hes not being paid to be a choirboy.

[burrrton]

Unbelievable end to Cleveland game:

1. Interception with 50 odd seconds left in a tie game.
2. Throw a quick pass, then take 25 seconds to run the next play.
3. On that play, QB scrambles but instead of running OB, he slides in bounds.
4. After the timeout, they run an off-tackle dive (not so bad considering who was QBing).
5. Their 50 yard FG is blocked and returned for a TD the other way.

This is why CLE is 2-8.

[Hawktawk]

Sonny Jurgenson,Billy Kilmer, Brett Favre, Jim McMahon, Ken Stabler, Kyle Orton Just a few of the names that couldn't get a job in today's NFL.

[kalibane]

Like I said Riv, I have a problem with him lying to his coaches and yeah going back on the pledge isn't a good look but honestly it's minor and if the Browns did their due diligence like they should have they'd have known it was an unrealistic pledge to begin with. He's 21, likes to party and just got handed millions of dollars with celebrities wanting to be around him. He was not going to stop partying. That aspect of his personality just comes with him the same way Marshawn Lynch's eccentricities come with him.

Also it's not just other players it's other QBs? Do you honestly think that Tom Brady doesn't go out and party at all the events his super model wife attends? The difference is he isn't 20 and those parties are highly exclusive. If I were a Coach/GM I would prefer not having to deal with a QB being involved in that culture on a regular basis (but that goes for Namath, Favre etc. as well) but I also wouldn't have drafted Manziel. Fleas come with the dog. It's something you're just going to have to work to contain but expecting that it's going to just end was just an exercise in self delusion. And going to a party on a bye week is not a big deal (the lying is, but not the partying).

[RiverDog]

Like I said Riv, I have a problem with him lying to his coaches and yeah going back on the pledge isn't a good look but honestly it's minor and if the Browns did their due diligence like they should have they'd have known it was an unrealistic pledge to begin with. He's 21, likes to party and just got handed millions of dollars with celebrities wanting to be around him. He was not going to stop partying. That aspect of his personality just comes with him the same way Marshawn Lynch's eccentricities come with him.

Also it's not just other players it's other QBs? Do you honestly think that Tom Brady doesn't go out and party at all the events his super model wife attends? The difference is he isn't 20 and those parties are highly exclusive. If I were a Coach/GM I would prefer not having to deal with a QB being involved in that culture on a regular basis (but that goes for Namath, Favre etc. as well) but I also wouldn't have drafted Manziel. Fleas come with the dog. It's something you're just going to have to work to contain but expecting that it's going to just end was just an exercise in self delusion. And going to a party on a bye week is not a big deal (the lying is, but not the partying).

Agreed about the Browns being stupid by believing in Manziel's promise, and I think I said so, noting how they ignored the red flags that other teams heeded, even people with questionable judgment like Jerry Jones. And what makes it worse is that they traded up to get the bum. It's the worst draft day decision since Josh McDaniel moved up to take Tim Tebow. The guy was falling like a rock.

There's a difference between sipping a martini with your pinkie extended as Brady might do and dancing on a table while wearing a lamp shade and spraying the patrons with champagne. Manziel isn't just a drunk, he's a sloppy drunk, spraying champagne, getting into altercations, arguing with his GF, being photographed rolling up $20's in a bathroom, and so on. Even Colin Kaepernick's partying doesn't hold a candle to Manziel. The man can't handle his alcohol. It's not just a time or two or just during the offseason. It's continuous. He's constantly in the news attracting unwanted attention. And that's just the stuff that we're aware of. There is no doubt dozens of other incidents that didn't make TMZ. It's kinda like seeing a cockroach. For every one you see, you can assume that there's 10 that you can't see.

My point is that Manziel has a serious alcohol problem. He may not be as much of a threat to the public like Aldon Smith was/is, but he's no less dependent on the bottle. He can't stay away from it, even though he knows that he's risking a multi million dollar career as an NFL quarterback. Are the Browns stupid as to how they are managing it? No doubt. But at this point, I agree with Pettine setting him on the bench even if it could cost them a game or two this season. He damn sure isn't going to help him in the long run if he stays on his current path, and the only language people like Manziel seem to understand is playing time. The only hope the Browns have of salvaging him is to give him some shock therapy, like benching him. Nothing else, including his phony trip to rehab, has worked.

Personally I don't think anything the Browns are doing or could be doing will help. IMO Manziel will be out of the league within 2 years, maybe less.

[NorthHawk]

I have no idea if he has a substance abuse issue - I suspect he does, but don't know for sure.
I heard a comment on the pre game show last night when they were talking about him and the point was made that he has never been held accountable for his actions.
They said that all through High School and College, he missed practices, meetings, classes, and never was punished for his actions.
Since he's never been subject to rules and limitations, he doesn't know how to "buckle down" and focus like the rest of society.

This doesn't mean he doesn't have a problem, but it might mean he isn't equipped to work hard enough to become the best he could be.

[RiverDog]

I have no idea if he has a substance abuse issue - I suspect he does, but don't know for sure.
I heard a comment on the pre game show last night when they were talking about him and the point was made that he has never been held accountable for his actions.
They said that all through High School and College, he missed practices, meetings, classes, and never was punished for his actions.
Since he's never been subject to rules and limitations, he doesn't know how to "buckle down" and focus like the rest of society.

This doesn't mean he doesn't have a problem, but it might mean he isn't equipped to work hard enough to become the best he could be.

A little bit of a Yogi-ism in that first sentence, North. If you suspect he does, then I wouldn't say that you don't have any idea. Perhaps you don't have any hard evidence, although I would disagree with that, too. IMO there's plenty of evidence that he has a substance abuse problem, including his own confession when he voluntarily enrolled in rehab.

Manziel was held accountable and suspended at A&M for his personal actions, although it was pretty wimpy and did not include any substance abuse. He was suspended for 1/2 of a game for accepting money for his autograph, then started mocking it by pretending to sign his autograph as a TD celebrations. The guy's a real dickhead.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not qualified to judge whether someone has addictions or other issues, thus my comment that I don't know, but suspect.
However, his actions are out of the norm for someone who wants to perform at the highest level so that can lead one to that conclusion. Maybe there is something else going on like a learning disability or other thing that prevents him from being able to stay within the bounds that the NFL (or NFL Team) requires.
I really don't know.

As far as his suspension or not in college, I was paraphrasing what was said, and since I didn't follow him much I went with it as their observation.

[Hawktawk]

I'm just kind of fed up with all the handwringing over Manziel. There's bigger issues by far in this league than Johnny footballs partying habits.It isn't like the guy is in any kind of NFL protocol or anything.
Hardy is still suiting up and there is nothing to suggest Manziel has ever done anything like that. Aldon Smith played the day after a DUI/drug possession involving a collision.

I guess I hearken back to what someone, I believe it was Kal said about this really being about the Browns stupidity. Signing a party animal and paying them a few million then expecting them to be a choirboy is ridiculous. Its like the woman who marries the bad boy and expects he will change. Doesn't happen. They are acting like they are running an adult daycare instead of an NFL franchise and it shows.


IMO the Browns are still idiotic not to have put that kid out there to see what they had in him unless they just want to pee away a second rounder for nothing. Of course maybe they already have if they want a teetotaler under center.

[kalibane]

I think you are underselling Brady with the "Martini while extending pinky" example. He's near 40 and has kids so I'm sure that's more the case now, but the pictures from the Patriots victory party show a different side. Given his personality, things I heard about him at UM, I don't take Brady as the poster boy for moderation. What he knows that Johnny doesn't is how to manage his image and his surroundings. Johnny is still a frat boy.

[RiverDog]

I think you are underselling Brady with the "Martini while extending pinky" example. He's near 40 and has kids so I'm sure that's more the case now, but the pictures from the Patriots victory party show a different side. Given his personality, things I heard about him at UM, I don't take Brady as the poster boy for moderation. What he knows that Johnny doesn't is how to manage his image and his surroundings. Johnny is still a frat boy.

Yea, I exaggerated about the extended pinkie on the martini. I really don't know that much about Brady's habits. I did it to make a point. And you're exactly right about his not knowing how to manage his image, but IMO the Browns have every right to insist that he conform at least to some small degree the type of image they want as their "face of the franchise". No team in the league is going to be happy with their #1 draft choice and face of the franchise getting photographed rolling up 20's in a Vegas bathroom or getting investigated by the league for a possible DV incident. Heck, even the scum bag Cowboys would have an issue with his behavior.

The main point I was arguing was the fact that he has an alcohol problem and that the Browns are right to limit his play because of his past behavior and dishonesty.

[RiverDog]

I'm just kind of fed up with all the handwringing over Manziel. There's bigger issues by far in this league than Johnny footballs partying habits.It isn't like the guy is in any kind of NFL protocol or anything.
Hardy is still suiting up and there is nothing to suggest Manziel has ever done anything like that. Aldon Smith played the day after a DUI/drug possession involving a collision.

I guess I hearken back to what someone, I believe it was Kal said about this really being about the Browns stupidity. Signing a party animal and paying them a few million then expecting them to be a choirboy is ridiculous. Its like the woman who marries the bad boy and expects he will change. Doesn't happen. They are acting like they are running an adult daycare instead of an NFL franchise and it shows.


IMO the Browns are still idiotic not to have put that kid out there to see what they had in him unless they just want to pee away a second rounder for nothing. Of course maybe they already have if they want a teetotaler under center.

Hardy and Smith broke league rules. Manziel hasn't done that, so they haven't gotten into the act other than investigating the GF fight. Obviously Hardy and Smith's transgressions were worse, but we're not talking about suspending him. What is at issue with Manziel is his breaking team rules and lying to his head coach.

The Browns have to hold Manziel accountable for his behavior. How can they expect others to be honest with them and follow team rules if they allow Johnny Football to lie to his head coach and get away with it? The only thing Manziel is going to respect is being benched. It's the only thing Pettine can do short of cutting him, which he might not be too far away from doing.

As far as finding out what they have, they already have some pretty good information. He's been on the club for nearly two years and does have some game experience. All playing him will do is reward his unacceptable behavior and not motivate him to change his ways, which has to happen before he can be the long term answer for them.

[c_hawkbob]

As I see it the problem isn't Johnny partying as much as it's Johnny lying to his bosses. If he wasn't willing to drop his frat boy antics he shouldn't have promised that he would.

He lied to get a higher draft position (understandable as it's worth millions) and he's kept lying since. I'd be mad too.

Screw him, if he'd been honest in the first place and said "no, I like to party, I'm single and of legal age and I'm going to live my life as I see fit. You'll just have to trust that I won't let it effect my performance on the field" he'd still be in the NFL and he wouldn't be getting all the crap he's getting now. He wouldn't be as rich, but his career would still be on track.

[Hawktawk]

[quote="c_hawkbob"]As I see it the problem isn't Johnny partying as much as it's Johnny lying to his bosses. If he wasn't willing to drop his frat boy antics he shouldn't have promised that he would.

He lied to get a higher draft position (understandable as it's worth millions) and he's kept lying since. I'd be mad too.

I have no argument with that Bob. The Browns aren't the only idiots. How in the world does Manziel expect to get away with being dishonest in this media on steroids world? Everyone has a smart phone or equivalent.
I guess he's trying to take his cue from the politicians but for some reason it matters more if a QB lies to his team than if a congressman or prospective candidate or President lies to the entire world.

And that's where we are in 2015 America folks.

[NorthHawk]

We expect our politicians to tell us bald faced lies. It goes with the territory.
Our Athletes are often seen as role models and thought of as being above that type of stuff.
At least that's the myth that teams try to portray of the stars even if the players are just people with all the same faults as everyone else.