idhawkman wrote:Pretty much all the above plus the relentless flags that are thrown almost every play. It has become more and more obvious that the refs and maybe even the league is trying to pick and choose winners and losers. I'm not going to write a long post about why I believe this but there's lots of ways they do this including scheduling, ref teams for certain games, flags, and more.
Another issue is parents not wanting their kids to play football. I don't see near as many kids wearing team logo'd stuff and if the kids aren't watching it then the parents may not be watching it. You could also add video games into this issue with kids not watching...
Continuously messing with the rules. e.g. what is a catch, hitting a QB above the shoulder or below the waist, targeting, flagrant fouls, longer extra points, etc. Its almost not the same game I grew up with.
I feel the most flagrant issue is the Anthem protests. That's hurting their ratings the most.
Regarding the teams in big markets, ask yourself how the college teams are doing in those markets. Are they up, down or the same? sarcasm - I'm sure that baseball teams in those cities have never done well in those markets before so it has to be that, right? /sarcasm
The NFL is in a big pickle at this point and unless they stop dissing their fans, they will continue to lose viewers.
curmudgeon wrote:Over-saturation, Wussification, Politicization=Nearly Finished League.......
FolkCrusader wrote:The part you missed River that TV viewing is (and has been for quite a few years) going down in nearly every age group. The only group that is growing is 65+. The younger age groups, 12-17, 18-24, and 25-34 reduce TV viewing 10%-15% per year. Football still dominates TV ratings, it's just that TV gets less and less popular every year.
I have no doubt all of these things have an affect as well, but the main issue is a reduction in viewership overall.
Zorn76 wrote:The Politics are definitely affecting it, but the NFL was due for a ratings dip anyway.
They have enjoyed (i.e. raped and pillaged fans:) a 10% increase or so in profits, based on billions of dollars of revenue, for the last several years. It was bound to happen.
That said, fans (myself included), are Sick of politics invading the game. I'll always watch, but this has been one of the least enjoyable seasons I've experienced.
Fortunately, no matter how worthy the cause or discussions generated, the story goes away. It's too hard to sustain season after season anyway. They'll eventually determine they've made their point, lick the index finger, and chalk up the 'win'.
Hawktawk wrote:A month ago there were exactly 4 players sitting out the anthem. Then the jackass popped off about SOB's and half the league kneeled including some owners. The rabid base gorged on the red meat provide by Trump and then Pence and the boycott picked up serious steam. No doubt its a huge factor. I would guess Trump fans made up a disproportionally high percentage of NFL fans to begin with.
+
I hope it turns around. The boycotters aren't hurting the billionaire owners or players as bad as they are the hot dog venders, the restaurant owners, the beer vendors. When it affects advertising revenue then its going to be a different story.
Its appalling what has been done to my sport and I blame everyone starting with Goodell who should have put a stop to this a year and a half ago.If he "thinks "players should stand what is the problem? If I think one of my employee's should do something they do it or they are no longer employed.
kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.
1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.
2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.
3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.
4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.
5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.
6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.
7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).
8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.
I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.
kalibane wrote:I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.
kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.
1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.
2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.
3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.
4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.
5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.
6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.
7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).
8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.
I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.
kalibane wrote:It's a combination of a lot of things. In no particular order this is why I believe the NFL is losing ratings.
1. Over Saturation. Football used to be a two day thing. You spent 9 hours a week watching it if you wanted to see everything you could. (6 hours on Sunday and 3 on Monday. And Monday Night felt special. Thanksgiving felt special. Saturday playoff games felt special. Now they've added Thursday games every week, a Sunday Night Game and London Games. Meaning if you were to watch all the games available you're watching 18 hours of football instead of 9. It's only natural that people would start picking and choosing which games they are watching (especially as attention spans get shorter) which spreads the ratings thin.
2. Greed... as someone else highlighted. Cable/Sat. providers are out of controls. They have near monopolies on the TV market and their pricing models reflect it. People are tired of paying the equivalent of a monthly car note to watch TV. At a certain point (especially with millennials with mountains of student loan debt) people are willing to sacrifice live sports and cut the cord.
3. Protests. There are people on both sides of this who have specifically tuned out this year. The people mad about players protesting are getting all the headlines but there are a lot of people who are also boycotting because Kaepernick is unemployed. Combined it's going to represent a slight dip. I don't think this is close to the biggest factor though.
4. Overall quality of the product. Football is flat out bad right now. Rules are unclear. Play is sloppy. There is no consistency in which teams are good from week to week. People are apathetic.
5. Image of the league. The protests are just the last in a steady series of issues the league has been dealing with on player behavior, be it domestic violence, child abuse, murder and suicide. The handling of these matters is completely arbitrary and swings back and forth between apathy to unbelievably heavy handed. A man choked a woman and literally threw her on a pile of guns and he was suspended for 6 games? Meanwhile, stupid as the player may be, you see guys suspended a year for weed. It's ridiculous.
6. Too controlling of players (which ties into Riv's lack of stars). Yes Brady, Aaron Rodgers et al are stars in the way the league wants their stars to be. But they are completely cardboard. Most people neither love them nor hate them. The love or hate they receive is largely based on ideas about them promoted by talking heads on TV. So for example you don't really hate Tom Brady, you just hate that Chris Collinsworth can't stop gushing about him on TV. The Seahawks are virtually the only "colorful" team in the NFL and even they've lost a good bit of their edge. The league tries way too hard to stifle individuality in order to keep salaries in check. But the consequence is that their most marketable products aren't being used. In contrast with the NBA, people go out of their way to watch bad teams just to see stars. A bunch of people tuned into ESPN last night to watch a team (76ers) who hasn't been in the playoffs for something like 15 years and may not make them this year, just to see the young stars that they allowed to have personalities. It'd be like the equivalent of people tuning in specifically to watch the Jaguars which as we know, just doesn't happen.
7. Back to Greed... but on the NFL rather than Cable Companies. They are so ridiculously protective of their copyrighted material, they immediately have videos taken down from You Tube and send cease and desist letters when stuff pops up on You Tube, which sure is their right but it's penny wise pound foolish because there aren't a lot of people who are paying to buy DVDs anymore. Other sports realized a long time ago that people posting content on YouTube only enhanced their profile and increased interest (particularly relevant with cord cutting because cord cutters watch YouTube).
8. Safety. The Concussion stuff is really hurting them. Not everywhere. Obviously youth football is still huge in some parts of the country but there are millions of kids who are being funneled into other sports now. And when you aren't playing it, you don't care as much. We are starting to see a lot of those kids find their way into adulthood now and the NFL just isn't a big deal to them.
I honestly think they made a lot of decisions about how to organize and market the sport without looking at the horizon and the changing landscape of popular culture. They took for granted that they'd always be king and their growing numbers would always grow. The places they tried to expand their reach don't make sense (expansion in London). It's a lot of old fashioned thinking.
c_hawkbob wrote:And Dog, I totally disagree about boxing. Don King and PPV killed that beast. When you could watch championship fights on broadcast TV and there was only one champ per weight class; that was the golden age of boxing. Having to pay $50 to watch a decent fight and having no alternative is what created the void that MMA stepped up to fill. That's one reason the NFL never went the PPV rout and have kept a full slate of games free every every week.
RiverDog wrote:Boxing's golden age was well before Don King and PPV (they called it closed circuit television back then). In the 30's, 40', and 50's, high schools of any size used to have boxing teams, and every po dunk little town, like Dayton WA, the one that my cousin belonged to, had a boxing club, in the early 60's. By the time I hit high school in 1970, a relatively large high school, the only evidence of a boxing team was in the school trophy case and I knew of no high school in the state that had boxing teams or any town in E. Washington that had a boxing club. The first major championship PPV boxing event wasn't until 1975, the "Thrilla in Manilla", Ali vs. Frazier.
PPV might have been the straw that broke the camel's back, but it was hardly the root cause of boxing's demise.
Trust me Riv it's a thing in the black community. I'm not saying it's a huge thing but it's a thing. Between my people in my office, immediate circle of friends and people in my sports group on facebook I can think of about 25 people who aren't watching the NFL because they feel Kaepernick has been blackballed. But like I said think the impact of protests (on both sides) is overstated. People are eager to take credit for the decline in ratings because it makes them feel like their protest means something.
kalibane wrote:I don't think MMA split the market. I think it took advantage of the vacuum in the market that boxing created when it cannibalized itself. If Boxing were a healthy sport MMA would never have taken off like it did. I say this as someone who prefers MMA to boxing.
I tend to agree with Bob about boxing. It was the systemic corruption that played the biggest part in its demise. Too many federations/belts. Too much record padding and opponent dodging. Too little free exposure to big name fighters. Boxing was dying a slow steady death and MMA was able to slide into that space.
kalibane wrote:I tend to agree with Bob about boxing. It was the systemic corruption that played the biggest part in its demise. Too many federations/belts. Too much record padding and opponent dodging. Too little free exposure to big name fighters. Boxing was dying a slow steady death and MMA was able to slide into that space.
kalibane wrote:I like MMA more for similar reasons. There is more nuance when you have to be proficient in more than one discipline. That being said, MMA did need boxing to be a mess to get where it is today.
MMA's explosion can be traced back to a very specific moment in time. That moment was the finale of the first season of Ultimate Fighter when Forrest Griffin fought Stephan Bonnar. Dana White freely (almost proudly) acknowledges this. And those two guys are forever taken care of by Dana White and the Fretita brothers because of that fight and what it did for the UFC. But if Boxing was still the sport it was in the days of Sugar Ray Leonard. The Ultimate Fighter is never even green lit as a show. So that fight almost certainly doesn't happen. If it does happen, it's on a PPV seen by 50,000 hardcore MMA fans instead of national TV seen by millions of casual fans and people watching out of curiosity.
MMA absolutely needed the vacuum that boxing's greed and corruption created.
Largent80 wrote:Look at San Diego, a community that supported the Chargers for many decades, Their stadium was old but hardly as bad as the colesseum in L.A.
LA had zero teams for decades and now they move a beloved franchise there while the Lambs are trying to re-establish themselves. What a dumb assed decision. And the fans in SD are totally screwed because of beaurocrats.
This is the s*** that is causing people to say sayonara.
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