faith for this year

[idhawkman]

We'll have to resign ourselves to the idea that our Defense won't be able to win games by themselves like the last 8 or so years and that the Offense will have to make up the difference.
ST's can help in that as well, but you can't build a philosophy on ST's winning games on a consistent basis.

I was hoping for a more aggressive OC, too, but Schottenheimer's record has shown that he can build a decent Offense if given the talent.

Our defense really hasn't been able to win us a game since the NE loss in the SB.

[NorthHawk]

Our defense really hasn't been able to win us a game since the NE loss in the SB.

From 2012 to 2013 inclusive we were ranked #1 in points allowed. We slipped to 3rd in 2016 and 13th last year.
So the D has been able to win games - or at least permit the O to minimally produce up until last year.

[c_hawkbob]

We still got KJ and Bobby and what's left of Earl (which could still be a lot *fingers crossed*) and a coach that knows how to use young defensive talent so I expect us to still be a top 10 defense or thereabouts ... if we can be top half of the league on offense we should still be a playoff contender.

[idhawkman]

From 2012 to 2013 inclusive we were ranked #1 in points allowed. We slipped to 3rd in 2016 and 13th last year.
So the D has been able to win games - or at least permit the O to minimally produce up until last year.

Yes, the defense is good to keep the opponents scores down but if we only score 9 points and the other teams scores 17 our defense looks great but they were still not able to win the game for us.

The offense has to be able to score 25 points a game in my opinion. If we do that we normally win. "IF" we had scored 25 points in the games we lost last year we would have had 2 more wins and turned our 9-7 season into a 11-5 season.

The Cardinals, JAgs, Titans, Rams and Falcons all scored more than 25 points against us last year and the Skins loss was partly on the defense since we had a lead with less than 2 min to go.

My whole point about the defense not being able to win games for us is that the offense has to help the defense a little bit. If no offense is going to show up, the defense will falter like last year again.

[HumanCockroach]

Think you're including points given to the opposing defense in a couple of those... know for sure Atlanta was directly given 13 points due to offense, not defense.

Jags more of the same...

Ultimately, the defense last season didn't truly falter until late in the year, with exception of the Titans game ( though personally, watching the offensive ineptitude for 3 1/2 quarters, I didn't walk away feeling the defense let them down, after once again playing 90% of the game in 110° weather. They wore down, and seldom got anything resembling a breather)

The Skins scored all their points off of turnovers by the offense, including two horrible turnovers in the redzone which also negated Seattle points.

[TriCitySam]

In saying “Blasted pretty hard”, I was referring to a couple of articles (Forbes/USA Today) that were critical of the hiring. The USA article should be dismissed to some extent, in that it says emphasizing the run game is an error. The Forbes article, however shows that in 9 yrs with the NYJ and Rams, he was near the bottom in yards and in the bottom 1/2 in point production and in 6 of the 9 years, was in the bottom third in rushing. It was he who was the OC with Fisher at the Rams.

But as the Forbes article points outSeattle with PC and RW, not Mangini, Fisher and a collection of sub-par. QB’s. We shall see.

[NorthHawk]

In saying “Blasted pretty hard”, I was referring to a couple of articles (Forbes/USA Today) that were critical of the hiring. The USA article should be dismissed to some extent, in that it says emphasizing the run game is an error. The Forbes article, however shows that in 9 yrs with the NYJ and Rams, he was near the bottom in yards and in the bottom 1/2 in point production and in 6 of the 9 years, was in the bottom third in rushing. It was he who was the OC with Fisher at the Rams.

But as the Forbes article points outSeattle with PC and RW, not Mangini, Fisher and a collection of sub-par. QB’s. We shall see.

Like all coaches a lot depends on the situation and talent around them.
It's interesting that we get a difference in opinion among writers.

A quote from 12th man rising:

He became the Jets offensive coordinator in 2006, and promptly took them from 29th in points scored to 18th. That was with Chad Pennington puling the trigger. Throw in one year of a 39 year old Brett Favre, then you have two years of the Sanchize himself. Overall the Jets ranked 18th, 25th, 9th, 13th and 13th again in scoring under Schotty. Then in 2011 the wheels came off (mainly off future Hall of Famer LaDanian Tomlinson) and the offense dropped back to 25th in touchdowns again. Schotty needed a new job.

https://12thmanrising.com/2018/05/27/se ... rs-record/

The writer is a homer, but the facts are the facts and it tends to lend credence to the suggestion that we will use a FB more this year, too.
Read the article to get a different perspective.

[HumanCockroach]

I honestly don't know that that is an improvement... typically players, plus how their talents mesh with philosophy etc all come together... if say Baldwin/Wilson don't, and Penny isn't a bell cow back like Tomlinson. This offense will regress...

Bevell consistently in top 15 scoring, does that mean he was better? I would argue no, but only time will tell. To early to base any realistic expectations. Not even training camp yet.

[idhawkman]

Think you're including points given to the opposing defense in a couple of those... know for sure Atlanta was directly given 13 points due to offense, not defense.

Jags more of the same...

Ultimately, the defense last season didn't truly falter until late in the year, with exception of the Titans game ( though personally, watching the offensive ineptitude for 3 1/2 quarters, I didn't walk away feeling the defense let them down, after once again playing 90% of the game in 110° weather. They wore down, and seldom got anything resembling a breather)

The Skins scored all their points off of turnovers by the offense, including two horrible turnovers in the redzone which also negated Seattle points.

You are correct, I didn't adjust for points given by the offense in turnovers. OUr offense was really offensive last year.

That said, I seem to remember the skins going the length of the field in 2 plays late in the 4th qtr.

[HumanCockroach]

If by length of the field you mean from the 40 or 45 after a horribly thrown ball/ decision in the redzone that was perhaps the easiest interception any players ever been gifted in the three decades I've watched football, then sure, they went the length of the field. Washington scored exactly 0 points not off turnovers by the offense...

Probably the most putrid display of offense I've seen from a Wilson lead O in his time here, and no I haven't forgotten the Arizona 6-6 tie... lol

[idhawkman]

If by length of the field you mean from the 40 or 45 after a horribly thrown ball/ decision in the redzone that was perhaps the easiest interception any players ever been gifted in the three decades I've watched football, then sure, they went the length of the field. Washington scored exactly 0 points not off turnovers by the offense...

Probably the most putrid display of offense I've seen from a Wilson lead O in his time here, and no I haven't forgotten the Arizona 6-6 tie... lol

Please double check your play by play on the 'skins game. Their final TD came off a Kickoff by us at the 1:34 mark in the 4th. Here's the play by play that I remember and what is in the NFL.com play by play. It shows they went the length of the field in 0:35 against our defense for a TD. In those four plays there's an incomplete pass and a 1 yard TD run. The other two plays make up the length of the field.

Washington Redskins at 01:34
7-B.Walsh kicks 65 yards from SEA 35 to end zone, Touchback. PENALTY on SEA-42-D.Hill, Offside on Free Kick, 5 yards, enforced at WAS 25.
1-10-WAS 30
(1:34) (Shotgun) 8-K.Cousins pass incomplete short left to 18-J.Doctson (93-D.Freeney).
2-10-WAS 30
(1:31) (Shotgun) 8-K.Cousins pass deep right to 83-B.Quick pushed ob at SEA 39 for 31 yards (28-J.Coleman; 31-K.Chancellor) [72-M.Bennett].
1-10-SEA 39
(1:24) (Shotgun) 8-K.Cousins pass deep left to 18-J.Doctson to SEA 1 for 38 yards (30-B.McDougald). The Replay Official reviewed the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld. The ruling on the field stands.
Timeout #3 by SEA at 01:02.
1-1-SEA 1
(1:02) 66-T.Bergstrom and 52-R.Anderson reported in as eligible. 20-R.Kelley left guard for 1 yard, TOUCHDOWN.
6-N.Rose extra point is GOOD, Center-57-N.Sundberg, Holder-5-T.Way.
WAS 17 SEA 14 Plays: 4 Possession: 0:35

[mykc14]

Probably the most putrid display of offense I've seen from a Wilson lead O in his time here, and no I haven't forgotten the Arizona 6-6 tie... lol

The offense wasn't great, but the worst offensive display in Wilson's tenure here seems like a stretch. They had 450 (375 from Wilson) yards of offense and scored 2 TD's. In the Cardinals tie game they only had about 250 yards of offense and no TD's (in 4 quarters PLUS OT). The Cardinals game was a much more disgusting offensive display than the Redskins game...

[NorthHawk]

I'd rather forget about both.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not into big yardage, but costing us games... just like I'm not impressed by stats in Jags, Atlanta, or Tennesee games. This ain't fantasy football.... never been, nor will ever be, impressed by 3 quarters of putrid football, followed by a single huge quarter, nor absolve critical unforced mistakes that are differences in football games. Idea is to play at the same level for 4 quarters, not below average for 3, and off the charts for one.

You keep trying to bring that up, but have I ever wavered from that position myck? Even once?

(Out of curiosity, you think Arizona's top 3 D and Washington's bottom 27 were on par?)

[mykc14]

I'm not into big yardage, but costing us games... just like I'm not impressed by stats in Jags, Atlanta, or Tennesee games. This ain't fantasy football.... never been, nor will ever be, impressed by 3 quarters of putrid football, followed by a single huge quarter, nor absolve critical unforced mistakes that are differences in football games. Idea is to play at the same level for 4 quarters, not below average for 3, and off the charts for one.

You keep trying to bring that up, but have I ever wavered from that position myck? Even once?

(Out of curiosity, you think Arizona's top 3 D and Washington's bottom 27 were on par?)

What are you talking about? Why is our previous discussion even an aspect of this one? I'm not trying to convince you that RW was good in the Washington game (he wasn't) I'm just saying he was worse and the O was worse overall in that Arizona game. You can bring up the various rankings of the Defenses they played but guess what those are based on.... stats... which you are not impressed by. Not that it matters much but how did you filter your defensive rankings? I could see if you used yards or pts allowed (more important, IMO), but it seems like you used YARDS for Arizona and POINTS for Washington which is Washington's worst category vs. Arizona's best category. If you used POINTS for Arizona and YARDS for Washington they would be ranked 14th and 22nd respectively (much closer). At any rate Arizona's 2016 D was better than Washington's for sure, but I knew that when I made my initial comment. I also took into account the fact that Washington was at Home while Arizona was on the road. Despite those things the Arizona offensive game was worse.

[HumanCockroach]

Lol... if you want to dismiss a track record of great defense, and horrible defense, be my guest, I don't. All good. Competition matters to me in regards to performance, it doesn't have to you. That's your choice. In Arizona Wilson made something out of nothing, ......or at the very least nothing out of nothing, in Washington, he took something, and gave washington something.

( by the way Washington was here, and Arizona was home... as for rankings, I used defensive rankings for both at the time of the game, I'm honestly not even sure your using the games I'm discussing....)

[idhawkman]

I agree 1000% with HumanCockroach about the 3 bad quarters followed by one good one. So tired of seeing that crap it isn't funny.

I think it is a result of Carroll saying you can't win it in the 1st Qtr, you can't win it in the 2nd Qtr, you can't win it in the 3rd Qtr but you can win it in the 4th Qtr. mantra. I sure do think we lost that Carolina playoff game a couple years ago in the first half.

[mykc14]

( by the way Washington was here, and Arizona was home... as for rankings, I used defensive rankings for both at the time of the game, I'm honestly not even sure your using the games I'm discussing....)

Yeah, I noted that in my previous post. Also, we are talking about the same games (Washington this past season and at Arizona in 2016). That Arizona game was beyond pathetic offensively. The Hawks couldn’t move the ball here’s their drive chart for that game:
1st Half
3 plays 7 yards
3 plays 6 yards
3 plays 4 yards
5 plays 13 yards
5 plays 7 yards
1st Half Totals: 19 plays for 37 yards 0 points

2nd half
6 plays 15 yards
3 plays 6 yards
5 plays 8 yards
3 plays-6 yards
4 plays 0 yards (FG)
3 plays 5 yards
2nd half totals: 24 plays 28 yards 3 points (thanks to a blocked punt)
Regulation game totals 43 plays for 65 yards... pathetic...

Before OT the Hawks offense was as bad as an offense can be. In OT they did much better but still only managed 3 points but they were able to rack up 120 yards... but still it should never have come to that point with how bad the O was.

[NorthHawk]

I think that Arizona game was the one that really set in motion the decline of the Defense.
They still played well, but after that game they just looked less enthusiastic and maybe to the point of lethargic.
It's as if they were playing at a reduced speed. I noted it at the time and thought it was just a hangover from such a physically demanding game.

[HumanCockroach]

So nothing out of nothing against a top tier great defense. And took nothing and gave a horrible defense something which cost us a game.... isn't that exactly what I said? Pretty sure it is...

[mykc14]

So nothing out of nothing against a top tier great defense. And took nothing and gave a horrible defense something which cost us a game.... isn't that exactly what I said? Pretty sure it is...

My initial response was that the Arizona game was a worse offensive performance than the Redskins game. The Hawks had 2 turnovers in the Skins game. 2 plays doesn’t define a whole games worth of offensive performance. The ineptitude of our offense against Arizona was historically bad. Also i wouldn’t go so far as to say Arizona was a ‘great’ D. They were 14th in points allowed that year and no D that far down in that category can be considered great. I agree that turnovers are bad but can you honestly say you would rather our team have a game with 60 total offensive yards and 3 points (gifted to them by the D) but no turnovers than a game where they have 450 yards 2 TDs and 2 turnovers? Look at how many games a team wins when they score 3 points vs. 14...

[HumanCockroach]

If you say so. To me, the offensive ineptitude against Washington taking points off the board, and giving them to a team, completely outclassed, injured, and limping into a game at your home stadium, which happened to be the difference in winning and losing, to a HEALTHY, great D , ranked 3rd in the league at the time of the game, at HOME, in our division, and healthy and not struggling isn't as clear cut as you're insisting it is.... I'll take 60 yards, no turnovers , and a win or a tie... 10/10 times to mistake prone mediocrity that results in a loss.

I also think the tennesee gane, and Jacksonville games rank somewhat in his top ten worst games in Seattle... I don't ignore horrible offense that costs Seattle games because they light it up in the 4th as they attempt to relive their GB championship experience week after week.... that championship game was magical, BUT, ...it isn't a recipe for success, seems that offense, and Wilson somehow missed that obvious lesson. I PRAY it was Bevell that created that lunacy, but I'm personally not certain it is...

I've been saying for three years, no, you can't win in the first quarter, no you can't win in the second quarter, no you can't win in the third quarter, but you damn sure can LOSE in those three quarters. Seattle's been putting on a clinic in that since that season, and has seldom varied.... a MEDIOCRE start in every game Probably nets them 2 more SB appearances, unfortunately we'll never know, because they couldn't accomplish it. Showing up ready to compete from the first whistle, hasn't been in their DNA for quite some time ( at least on the offensive side of the ball).... someone said something about ET not buying in, and while I don't believe that i's accurate, I promise if I was a defensive player, and week, after week, after week, I had to play lights out just to keep competitive on a team who's mantra and belief is always compete, for 3 seasons, I wouldn't buy in either...

[RiverDog]

IMO our worst offensive performance was in the first half at home against the Colts, perhaps the worst team on our schedule last season.

[obiken]

The main reason is our new RB R. Penny. He could be as good as Shawn Alexander was I still think we need a RT and RG but then we are set.

I can see us going 11-5 putting the last season far behind us. It was 9-7 for a lot of reasons that can change this year. With Penny here I am stoked.

11-5??? PF are you outta your mind!!????

[RiverDog]

11-5??? PF are you outta your mind!!????

Yea, 11-5 does seem overly optimistic. But I'm not going to knock anyone for any prediction. The NFL is so dynamic and ripe for teams to come out of nowhere. At this point last season, how many people would have predicted a 13-3 season and a Lombardi for the Eagles?

You're too used to the college game, where the same teams keep winning and losing with changes in the status quo being few and far between.

[Rambo2014]

Mariners in the slump now to oblivion and Seahawks will not be far behind

I am stoked for this season

[HumanCockroach]

You're stoked for every season..... worked so well last 2 decades, why change now?

[politicalfootball]

Does anyone know if Jokel is still on the team to play on the line ? He showed some promise.

[mykc14]

Does anyone know if Jokel is still on the team to play on the line ? He showed some promise.

Lol

[mykc14]

Does anyone know if Jokel is still on the team to play on the line ? He showed some promise.

No he’s not...

[HumanCockroach]

Sort of... his name is now Fluker... ( anybody else find it odd that these last two stopgap lineman signings involve a joke and a fluke?)

[Hawktawk]

In all the hubbub about the collapse against washington a couple of things are getting somewhat overlooked unless I'm missing something. #1 its when Walsh went from rejuvenated to the blair witch project missing 3? FGs. Another is the heroic dimes Cousins threw on that last drive, getting absolutely smashed in the mouth the instant he released those balls.

I don't know how well Cousins will do in Minny, bad I hope but the kid has some moxie and attitude and will beat you if he has a chance and they gave him a sliver.


As Holmy said "to win in this league is hard". It was a little too hard last year but it could have been anywhere from 7-9 to 11-5. We've still got Russ, ADB, a healthy Carson, Penney, Wags, KJ (lots of people overlook him) Frank Clark who is now the man to watch on the D line who has led the team in sacks over the past couple of years playing part time.

Maybe we have Earl, IMO a real key guy if they want to win now. We have Lockett with another offseason to heal his body and mind after the gruesome injury. There's no Jimmy Graham who did not block and was an enigma as a receiver, making circus catches and dropping balls right in his hands, alo disappearing for large stretches of time. I don't know if its just Russ spreading the ball around and not being very good at force feeding guys to justify the investment but these high priced FA offensive guys are a waste of time and money.

Mainly we have a fresh look in the coaches room. As my youngest son who predicts 11-5 says how can Schottenheimer be worse than Bevfool? How can the line regress under solari? "It would be pretty tough because it was bad. I thought Richard maybe got thrown out with the bath water but other than that its a definite upgrade and I wont judge Norton till I see what he has..

I guess personally I'm more curious, more fascinated by what to expect this year than any since at least Carroll's first season.Im not as optimistic as my kid but i wouldn't rule it out either.

[HumanCockroach]

That's a solid post, and I 100% agree with the statement about the high priced offensive weapons. Seattle and Wilson have always been incredibly more successful when every weapon is utilized, something I've said myself on numerous occasions. They simply do not function well when the offense ( to be honest I feel the same about ANY offense) when they have a singular focal point. League leading offenses succeed when there's numerous options. For whatever reasons, some seem to miss that at FO levels.