Training Camp Begins This Thursday

[RiverDog]

Finally, some football to talk about. It's been one heckuva offseason, from the house cleaning of the coaching staff to the departure of a number of defensive fixtures...Sherman, Bennett, Avril, Chancellor...the trade talks regarding the lone remaining member of the LOB and his subsequent holdout/trade demand.

The league implemented a couple of dramatic rule changes, the lowering the head rule and changes made to the kickoff, plus they still can't come to a decision on their anthem policy.

So...the two biggest areas, in my opinion, to watch will be the secondary and the offensive line. Best guess to replace Bam Bam is Bradley McDougald and Shaq Griffin will likely line up in Sherman's old spot. If Earl's holdout doesn't last too long, we might not be as bad as everyone is assuming. But who replaces Earl if he's not available? And who lines up in the other CB spot?

The OL has Brown at LT, Pocic (?) at LG, Britt at C, Fluker at RG, and Ifedi at RT. George Fant is back, and it sounds like he's going to be competing with Ifedi at RT.

Besides those positions, there's also going to be some interesting competition at TE, RB, and on the DL. I'm anxious to see this new punter perform. Sounds like he can kick it a mile, but can he nail the coffin corner?

Comments?

[politicalfootball]

Yeah I'm feeling it too we finally get some football. We Have something to do in the forum rather than pick on each other. The OL and secondary are definitely the areas to watch and we need some help there too. Does anyone know can you attend training camp and watch them all I may go. Sure is going to be interesting to read about.

[NorthHawk]

Finally, some football to talk about. It's been one heckuva offseason, from the house cleaning of the coaching staff to the departure of a number of defensive fixtures...Sherman, Bennett, Avril, Chancellor...the trade talks regarding the lone remaining member of the LOB and his subsequent holdout/trade demand.

The league implemented a couple of dramatic rule changes, the lowering the head rule and changes made to the kickoff, plus they still can't come to a decision on their anthem policy.

So...the two biggest areas, in my opinion, to watch will be the secondary and the offensive line. Best guess to replace Bam Bam is Bradley McDougald and Shaq Griffin will likely line up in Sherman's old spot. If Earl's holdout doesn't last too long, we might not be as bad as everyone is assuming. But who replaces Earl if he's not available? And who lines up in the other CB spot?

The OL has Brown at LT, Pocic (?) at LG, Britt at C, Fluker at RG, and Ifedi at RT. George Fant is back, and it sounds like he's going to be competing with Ifedi at RT.

Besides those positions, there's also going to be some interesting competition at TE, RB, and on the DL. I'm anxious to see this new punter perform. Sounds like he can kick it a mile, but can he nail the coffin corner?

Comments?

On Offense, outside of the OL which is a constant concern, I think the TE position will be a lot different in that they can all block and although they won't be able to stretch the field like Graham, it should be a better group overall and more in keeping with the run game philosophy. They might even make the OL better with help along the edges and power run game.
The Defensive line is a concern. Can Jordan be a solid player and provide some pass rush or were his few games just an anomaly and he slides back into being a disappointment. As well, Naz Jones along with Reed will have to provide some push up the middle. I'll be real interested in how they use Shaquem Griffin. Will he only be a situational player or will he end up starting? I can see him in a little bit of a Kam Chancellor role - maybe a hybrid SS/LB. Pete's fairly creative, so he may have something in mind that's a little different, or maybe he will just be a situational OLB. If ET isn't in camp by the start of the year, I can see them trading him and signing one of the FA Free Safties like Tre Boston and save big on the Cap space. A big loss of talent, but at some point decisions have to be made.

[RiverDog]

On Offense, outside of the OL which is a constant concern, I think the TE position will be a lot different in that they can all block and although they won't be able to stretch the field like Graham, it should be a better group overall and more in keeping with the run game philosophy. They might even make the OL better with help along the edges and power run game.
The Defensive line is a concern. Can Jordan be a solid player and provide some pass rush or were his few games just an anomaly and he slides back into being a disappointment. As well, Naz Jones along with Reed will have to provide some push up the middle. I'll be real interested in how they use Shaquem Griffin. Will he only be a situational player or will he end up starting? I can see him in a little bit of a Kam Chancellor role - maybe a hybrid SS/LB. Pete's fairly creative, so he may have something in mind that's a little different, or maybe he will just be a situational OLB. If ET isn't in camp by the start of the year, I can see them trading him and signing one of the FA Free Safties like Tre Boston and save big on the Cap space. A big loss of talent, but at some point decisions have to be made.

That's kinda how I thought they should best use 'quem, as a strong safety. He's a bit shorter than Kam but their weights are similar and reports are that he hits like a Mack truck. But at 6'0", he could be a bit of a matchup problem when covering tight ends, so I don't think we'll see him starting.

As far as Earl goes, I think we've seen the last of him as a Hawk. I don't think the team will renegotiate, particularily when he's holding out, and I don't think he'll eat crow and come back w/o a new deal. But I understand that the phone isn't exactly ringing off the hook, so it's probably Cowboys or bust. It will be a sad way for one of the all time best players in Hawk history to end his career with us.

[burrrton]

It will be a sad way for one of the all time best players in Hawk history to end his career with us.

Understatement. Ugh.

[idhawkman]

I think our two biggest areas of concern are going to be DL and OL.

Defensive secondary will probably be Maxwell, McDougald as FS, Shaquem Griffin as SS and Shaquille Griffin as CB.

If the DL can get good pressure on QBs then the secondary will be okay. If not, it won't matter who we have back there.

[HumanCockroach]

Second paragraph sums it up. Sub par DL, with young, mediocre, or young and mediocre recipe for a lot of arse kicking coming Seattle's way. Even IF the offensive line is "better" ( I ain't sold on that, as I haven't seen anything that makes me believe Brown is anything more than a cap blight, Pocic has been mauled despite excellent technique, and Fluker is abysmal.... currently the best lineman of that five Britt and Ifedi in that order) the offense, barring their new running back being Lynch in his prime out of the gate, and staying healthy for 16 games ( something Seattle can't seem to find) , there simply isn't enough on O, to outweigh the dearth of talent in those two areas...

Seattle's LB core is one of the best in the league, if not, the very best.... that said, unless they can be in 3 places at once * rushing passer, covering receivers, and covering their area as well ( or stuffing the run) that defense going to be bottom half of the league if they OVER perform, bottom 3rd if they play to their talent level.... unfortunate, but how see it. The run defense takes a big hit with Jordan ( even IF he can play 10 games without injury) and niche player Clark( think Irvin, but without run stopping ability)manning the DEs AND expected to quadruple snap counts, which also affects their specialty to rush the passer...

Ultimately, Clark and Jordan nice "depth or situational " pieces, expecting Avrill or Bennett type play ( even Bennett last year) unrealistic. They simply aren't those types of players.

[idhawkman]

I'm reaching for stars here but I hope McDowell can be productive this year but most likely he isn't going to see the field - ever.

[HumanCockroach]

Ocean of difference between productive, and game changers. At this point Seattle has two players on defense any coordinator even worries about, you lose ET you're down to one. Something that isn't going to keep them up at night. Mitigating a single player is not only easy, but BELOW what is typically faced week in and week out in the NFL...

I'm not sure why people believe you can just throw anyone into a system and succeed, but I'm confident that isn't the case. Currently Seattle boasts a FS, MLB, QB and occasionally a WR that are clutch, game changing type of players. That's Brown's or Bengals level , not playoff type of talent. Hope I'm wrong, but doubt I am. Truthfully, the staff gives them 2 to 3 wins, if that was Mora on the sideline, we're looking at 3 or 4 wins ( even in this division).

[idhawkman]

Ocean of difference between productive, and game changers. At this point Seattle has two players on defense any coordinator even worries about, you lose ET you're down to one. Something that isn't going to keep them up at night. Mitigating a single player is not only easy, but BELOW what is typically faced week in and week out in the NFL...

I'm not sure why people believe you can just throw anyone into a system and succeed, but I'm confident that isn't the case. Currently Seattle boasts a FS, MLB, QB and occasionally a WR that are clutch, game changing type of players. That's Brown's or Bengals level , not playoff type of talent. Hope I'm wrong, but doubt I am. Truthfully, the staff gives them 2 to 3 wins, if that was Mora on the sideline, we're looking at 3 or 4 wins ( even in this division).

I see it a bit different and only time will tell. In 2012 we didn't think we had that many play makers either. The last couple of years teams have figured out how to play Bennett, Kam, Earl, and Sherman. Bobby not so much but the rest haven't had the numbers they did when they first came to glory. So maybe as teams open up the playbook and start trying the positions they used to avoid it might make for more turn overs again. It was the turnovers in 2013 that really made a huge difference for us.

[HumanCockroach]

Absolutely, they avoided them.... lmao

( for thew record, Sherman was a rookie, as was Kam, Bennett, Avril wasn't on the team, etc...)

That said, you could SEE what ET, Sherman * even Bennett who they tried to sneak on to the practice squad, you could See what Baldwin could be.... there is simply no young player you can see that with currently residing in Seattle.

Maybe there's a Kam replacement, who knows, nobody has seen one. There most DEFINITELY isn't a Sherman replacement, he showed a knack for making plays on the ball from the minute he arrived. No corner currently on the roster displays that as of right now, it isn't something you are taught, nor learn, it's an instinct that can't be faked. There is no one on the roster that can cover the ground that ET does, no DE that has been an effective run and pass player... you're hoping for something, I'm simply looking at what's there, and it isn't a lot, certainly not a cornerstone piece.

[idhawkman]

You may be right but no one thought that a 5th round CB would amount to much. Easy to look back and make judgments. I do believe that the new Griffin kid might be able to fill that SS role though. We'll see.

[HumanCockroach]

I did, and said as such from his first pre season game. Complained when Thurmond III replaced Trufant, and had zero issue saying it. Some players you see it. Seattle doesn't have that corner. Griffin isn't going to magically learn to make plays on the football all of a sudden, his coverage is sound, but his knack for the ball is lacking, and that will never change.

As for his brother filling the Chancellor role, i'll wait until he actually lines up for a snap at safety before even venturing what he could be... to date, he's an OLB making him replacing chancellor a non discussion.

[idhawkman]

This is it. We'll start getting updates now about the team and who looks promising and who gets cut.

[RiverDog]

Dion Jordan is starting out TC on the PUP list:

"Dion’s got an issue we’re working on right now. It’s going to be a few weeks for him before we’re able to get him back out.”

https://www.seahawks.com/news/injury-up ... ining-camp

Pete didn't even say what the "issue" is, but when Pete says a few weeks, it usually turns out to be longer rather than shorter.

[idhawkman]

Dion Jordan is starting out TC on the PUP list:

"Dion’s got an issue we’re working on right now. It’s going to be a few weeks for him before we’re able to get him back out.”

https://www.seahawks.com/news/injury-up ... ining-camp

Pete didn't even say what the "issue" is, but when Pete says a few weeks, it usually turns out to be longer rather than shorter.

Definitely a bummer. We need the DL to really step up this year to help relieve pressure on the backend.

[HumanCockroach]

When isn't he? He played what? 5 games last year? Missed the entirety of the season before due to injury, and was suspended the year before...

[idhawkman]

Only 2 weeks to the first preseason game. Seems like a real short camp. I'm ready to see what this is all going to look like this year. I can't wait for the 3rd preseason game for a couple reasons. Its the game we play starters the longest and I think it is going to be against one of the powerhouse teams in the NFC this year. Should give a good indicator of what the season will look like. (barring injures that is.)

[HumanCockroach]

Don't think it's going to be drastically different than the last half of last year... capable of dismantling a team like Philly, or getting dismantled by a team like LA.... there's going to be large growing pains.

[RiverDog]

Don't think it's going to be drastically different than the last half of last year... capable of dismantling a team like Philly, or getting dismantled by a team like LA.... there's going to be large growing pains.

Yea, I'm pretty much in that boat, too. The only advantage is that the front half of our schedule appears a little soft out of the gate, with new and/or inexperienced QB's in Chicago, Denver, and Arizona, a schizophrenic Cowboys team, and the Raiders. As a matter of fact, 6 of our first 7 games are against non playoff teams from the previous season.

I'm actually looking forward to this season more than I was the past couple of years. We had gotten old and stale. Even the crowds at the Clink weren't as loud and intimidating as they were 3-4 years ago. It will be like a new beginning with the same head coach.

[idhawkman]

I'm actually torn on this year. I was not a big fan of Richard as DC and think that even though we may have a drop off in talent on defense, we may actually have a comparable result with this crew under Norton. I may be homering on that though and only time will tell.

Offense I'm totally in the dark on because I don't know if Solari can unite the OL and I have no idea how Shotty is going to do on the game plans. I think if he gets the offense to play all 4 quarters and not just the 4th quarter we could have a good year. Again, only time will tell.

[NorthHawk]

I'm actually torn on this year. I was not a big fan of Richard as DC and think that even though we may have a drop off in talent on defense, we may actually have a comparable result with this crew under Norton. I may be homering on that though and only time will tell.

Offense I'm totally in the dark on because I don't know if Solari can unite the OL and I have no idea how Shotty is going to do on the game plans. I think if he gets the offense to play all 4 quarters and not just the 4th quarter we could have a good year. Again, only time will tell.

We might have a bit of an advantage on Offense early because nobody has seen how Schottenheimer is going to use the players or scheme with this group. A little like Garropolo in SF at the end of last year. Similar plays, but called differently and probably tweaked a little.

[HumanCockroach]

I'd be happy if he simply focuses the offense on getting the first downs left on the field this year.... no more scramble drills on 1st, 2nd,3rd down resulting in a 30+ yard 50/50 ball... followed by the punt.

If it's 3rd and 4... it is ok to occasionally take the 8 to the wide open guy underneath.... I feel like that was for whatever reason a focus crammed down Wilson's throat by Bevel and co.. I pray they can reprogram that out of his head.

[RiverDog]

I'd be happy if he simply focuses the offense on getting the first downs left on the field this year.... no more scramble drills on 1st, 2nd,3rd down resulting in a 30+ yard 50/50 ball... followed by the punt.

If it's 3rd and 4... it is ok to occasionally take the 8 to the wide open guy underneath.... I feel like that was for whatever reason a focus crammed down Wilson's throat by Bevel and co.. I pray they can reprogram that out of his head.

A good start will be to reduce our league leading penalty count, particularily with regards to Ifedi as he was by far the worst offender. IMO our penalties, particularily the presnap penalties, is the single most correctable factor that Solari and Shott can make that would help achieve your goal of getting back those first downs left on the field.

[HumanCockroach]

Lol.... 3rd and 6, is 3rd and 6.... whether there was a penalty to get to 3rd and 6 or not. Ultimately, the marker is what matters, and taking a shot 40 yards downfield on that down( and certainly not just that down either, they had a tendency to do it at least once on 1st or 2nd as well... sometimes BOTH, then bemoan the "lack of a running game" wondering why despite running it 12 times, and throwing 45, there wasn't more first downs, or more rushing yards), with a couple guys open underneath, certainly realistically can't be laid at the feet of an offensive lineman, try as some might.

There was so much left offensively on the field, it baffles my mind last year. I PRAY that can either be coached out, or it was Bevells play calling that created that foolishness. If Wilson refuses to take first downs that are being given more often, this offense will not improve... it'll be more of the same...

[RiverDog]

Lol.... 3rd and 6, is 3rd and 6.... whether there was a penalty to get to 3rd and 6 or not. Ultimately, the marker is what matters, and taking a shot 40 yards downfield on that down( and certainly not just that down either, they had a tendency to do it at least once on 1st or 2nd as well... sometimes BOTH, then bemoan the "lack of a running game" wondering why despite running it 12 times, and throwing 45, there wasn't more first downs, or more rushing yards), with a couple guys open underneath, certainly realistically can't be laid at the feet of an offensive lineman, try as some might.

There was so much left offensively on the field, it baffles my mind last year. I PRAY that can either be coached out, or it was Bevells play calling that created that foolishness. If Wilson refuses to take first downs that are being given more often, this offense will not improve... it'll be more of the same...

I agree with you about Russell's propensity to forgo the 7-15 yard gain for a shot at a 25-35 yard home run, but I'm not sure that I want to blame him or our OC. But I disagree with your marginalizing the effect penalties had on our offense. I've seen too many 2nd and 4's turned into 1st and 15. Especially for an offense with limited weapons, those 5 yard false starts are drive killers.

[obiken]

I'm actually torn on this year. I was not a big fan of Richard as DC and think that even though we may have a drop off in talent on defense, we may actually have a comparable result with this crew under Norton. I may be homering on that though and only time will tell.

Offense I'm totally in the dark on because I don't know if Solari can unite the OL and I have no idea how Shotty is going to do on the game plans. I think if he gets the offense to play all 4 quarters and not just the 4th quarter we could have a good year. Again, only time will tell.

I'm not, we are doomed. Most experts like Cowherd, say 7-9, Wilbon says 4-12. Split it and say 6-10. The days of giving PC love are over, but that's another thread!

[burrrton]

I'm not, we are doomed. Most experts like Cowherd, say 7-9, Wilbon says 4-12. Split it and say 6-10. The days of giving PC love are over, but that's another thread!

Talking heads are no more accurate than chance would suggest, obi. Chill.

[HumanCockroach]

The proof is in the pudding on this one... last year with bulk of those let go... 8 and 4.... without bulk 1 - 3.... that bulk is gone( plus oh so many offensive weapons), we've already seen what this team is without half the players dumped... you add Earl to that, it gets worse, not better....

It's great they're high on their running backs, but a single RB, a small handful of rookies shouldn't be something people are doing backflips over.... you've lost 80% of your TD producers, 4 all pro type performers on defense, possibly 5, replaced a pretty mediocre offensive coaching staff, with career mediocre offensive coaching staff personnel, took a gamble on a inexperienced DC, replacing the other gamble on an inexperienced DC....

Could they win it all? Of course they "can". Much in the same way ANY NFL team "can"... but finishing above .500 ( even one game) would be a surprise, not a reasonable expectation.... especially if they do the typical, can't get out of their own way first month to six weeks....

Honestly expect them to be realistically out of the playoff race around week 12 or so... ( they'll be "technically" in it more than likely, but won't control their own destiny...)

Commenting on that isn't panic, or over reaction, it's realistic expectation of talent lost vs talent replenished.

[yoder]

Hey Shackers,

I was lucky enough to score a last minute ticket to training camp today, I've never been to one before. It was a 4 hour journey to get there and a 5 hour journey home, but well worth it.

There was so much going on and I wasn't really sure what to pay attention to, but here are a few things that left an impression.

1) Wagner was one of the first guys on the field. The guy is a fricking beast and definitely the leader of our defense. He started out catching passes from the throwing machine, taking turns with Stringfellow...literally 10 yards in front of me. When they started hitting the sleds, most guys were moving them a foot or two. Wags pushed that thing 6 feet or more, I thought he was going to drill it into my face. It was kind of like he was showing the other guys "If you want to make the cut, here's how you get their attention". He was flat out impressive and definitely showed to be a good leader. Same with our banged up Baldwin, he was on the sideline coaching and encouraging the new guys.

2) Penny looks really solid. He's a lot more stocky than on camera, but the guy can cut. If he stays healthy, he could be lethal.

3) We have a kicker again! Right down the middle from the 35-40 with plenty of distance to go. One kick hit the pole, other than that he was downright killing it. Whew. Walsh cost us at least two wins last year.

4) Duane Brown is one of the biggest dudes I've ever seen. He's a fricking monster and I'm stoked about his contract. Everyone on the the O-Line looked like they had lost a few. More cut. Big, but lean and cut.

5) Wilson was threading the needle, throwing low altitude rockets into tight spaces. He was rolling out quite a bit as well, snatching up yards in classic Wilson style. His arm looks better than ever.

6) Davis was the complete opposite, lots of overthrown lobs. Wasn't too impressed.

7) There is some serious energy with this new group of guys. They were definitely competing, but nothing chippy.

8) The VMAC is a nice ass facility. Sadly no beer, but the beauty of the place makes up for it.

9) Pete can still throw a ball, he was launching perfect 40 yard passes. He seemed to have a renewed sense purpose...he was more excited than usual. This rebuild may be his last big hurrah, but the guy seemed like a kid in a candy store again. He has a young, hungry team and hopefully he can get them to buy in. It kind of felt like 2010 again.

10) Amara Darboh was making some unbelievable leaping catches, including a one handed TD reception. The guy was going all out, very fun to watch.

11) Back to #1, Ryan was pretty much the second guy on the field and he was looking pretty much...nervous.

12) Ciara has a wedding ring the size of a Rubik's Cube.

I don't know how many of you have attended a Seahawks practice before, but if you ever get the chance, do it. It was an incredible experience and I'd do it again in a heartbeat. I know it's a rebuilding phase right now, but it feels like this lingering 4 year hangover can finally be put to rest and we can now look into a new era of Seahawks Football! It's refreshing and I'm really looking forward to these next few years.

Go Hawks!

P.S. Dave Wyman and Aaron Levine are awesome guys. I was hoping to meet Raible, maybe next time.

[c_hawkbob]

Good stuff Yoder! I love hearing TC reports. We used to get them from Cheney all the time from guys that lived on the east side of the mountains, I guess not as many of the guys on the west side attend camp ...

[Hawk Sista]

Good stuff, Yoder! Thank you! Ditto to what Bob said.

[RiverDog]

Great post, Yoder! I enjoyed reading your comments and am glad you got a chance to see a training camp.

Although I usually don't pay a lot of heed to training camp observations (from the local press, that is) as they tend to be too flowery and always paint the rosiest of pictures, it was refreshing to read what you were saying about Bobby Wagner. He's always been one of our team leaders but this season, with the absence of so many regulars and especially with Earl holding out, his role takes on even more importance.

I hope all is going well for you. We need to meet up for a game this season.

[NorthHawk]

Thanks Yoder.
It starts to get the enthusiasm going when I read first hand accounts from TC.

I was on Seahawks.com and found a page where it says we can watch TC live.
I haven't tried it before, but here's the link if you have time to watch.

https://www.seahawks.com/video/live-video-player