PFF: Seahawks pass blocking has been most efficient in NFL o

[HumanCockroach]

I'm not going to continue to spam the board in every thread with either the same link, or some other link I find. I've posted it, I'm good. I have zero agenda, the only one reiterating the exact same thing, thread after thread, post after post is you Anthony.

The continued insistence that I'm saying things I haven't, is what got me to give up on this forum last time, I provided the link that supported what I had said ( Wilson had the 11th most successful pass pro in the league last season based on 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket with which to work), I don't feel the need to hammer the point home. Nor rub anyone else's nose in it. I'm confident in that assessment, and have never wavered in it. What you want to see or believe, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't change that one bit. Whether it's everyone in the world or not, doesn't change it.

No where have I said that that was good, just that it was 11th best in the league, if nothing else, it demonstrates the improvement I saw and pointed out, and the lack of quality linemen in the NFL. Your insistence that I'm saying something else ( same as with last year's discussion) is juvenile, and simply put a lie.

[NorthHawk]

Most people don't want to examine how stats are derived, so they just take them at face value.
Some are absolute like wins and losses or penalties called, but there isn't much else that can't be manipulated by someone with an agenda or be
done sloppily enough to provide a false conclusion.
They can be interesting points of discussion, though.

[Anthony]

I'm not going to continue to spam the board in every thread with either the same link, or some other link I find. I've posted it, I'm good. I have zero agenda, the only one reiterating the exact same thing, thread after thread, post after post is you Anthony.

The continued insistence that I'm saying things I haven't, is what got me to give up on this forum last time, I provided the link that supported what I had said ( Wilson had the 11th most successful pass pro in the league last season based on 2.5 seconds of a clean pocket with which to work), I don't feel the need to hammer the point home. Nor rub anyone else's nose in it. I'm confident in that assessment, and have never wavered in it. What you want to see or believe, or anyone else for that matter, doesn't change that one bit. Whether it's everyone in the world or not, doesn't change it.

No where have I said that that was good, just that it was 11th best in the league, if nothing else, it demonstrates the improvement I saw and pointed out, and the lack of quality linemen in the NFL. Your insistence that I'm saying something else ( same as with last year's discussion) is juvenile, and simply put a lie.

So your Excuse for not posting the link is to not spam the board. Lol what a load of crap. The reality is you childish need to blame Wilson for everything has been shown for what it is, crap and a bunch of excuses and lies for your narrative. Let me further remind you i reached out with an olive branch but you decided to keep going so this is all on you

[HumanCockroach]

I told you where it's posted, you're to lazy or infantile to go to it, isn't my issue.

[Anthony]

Most people don't want to examine how stats are derived, so they just take them at face value.
Some are absolute like wins and losses or penalties called, but there isn't much else that can't be manipulated by someone with an agenda or be
done sloppily enough to provide a false conclusion.
They can be interesting points of discussion, though.

I agree hence why i agree wilson played a part in some of the oline troubles. However to say or elude to him being the biggest problem or say the oline was good were it not for wilson is just ridiculous. There are many factors to include: oline, rb, wr, coaches, play design, play call, qb, te, down, distance, situation. For me the oline was #2 behind coaching as i felt the old oline coach sucked. That said in that list qb qas way down on it, 6th or lower

[Anthony]

I told you where it's posted, you're to lazy or infantile to go to it, isn't my issue.

Dude it is not my responsibility to find a link to support your claim. That is your job. That said, i will try one more time for the sake of the forum. Your are not going to change my mind, and vice versa. So lets just agree to disagree and move on. The oline seems to be doing well regardless what the past reasons for not playing well. Lets hope they keep it up.

[HumanCockroach]

Nowhere have I stated he's the "main problem" not a single time. SMH.

[Anthony]

Nowhere have I stated he's the "main problem" not a single time. SMH.

So thats no to the olive branch, your loss. You should read your posts. Everytime the oline is brought up you say its on Wilson. Nothing but Wilson.if you read my post i also mentioned eluding to Wilson. When someone brings up the oline and all you talk about is Wilson being the problem, you are aluding to him being the problem. Not to mention you have said "Wilson is the problem" so one again i am presuming you are not interested in the olive branch. Too bad.

[RiverDog]

Anthony said: On a side note saying the stats i posted are misleading, also means what you posted are too.

I think that’s the point he’s (RD) making. All stats can be misleading. You do a great job of finding stats to support your arguments, but we all realize that these stats are imperfect, they rarely tell the whole story. We have to take the stats and try to put them into whatever ‘known’ contexts that we can. The problem with this particular argument are that there are too many unknowns to use them to come to any sort of defeinitive conclusions. Yes, the O-line has been bad- but was that due to scheme, RW holding onto the ball (which could also be considered scheme), poor routes by WR, bad running back play, etc... there are just as many Q’s that come up when talking about RW holding the ball too long.

That's exactly what I was saying. There's not many subjects that you can discuss where you can't find a stat to support your opinion, and the question as to what's the cause of quarterback pressure is a classic example. Russell does hold onto the ball longer than most quarterbacks. That is an undeniable fact. But does he receive more pressure because he's holding onto the ball too long or his he holding onto the ball longer because someone on the OL gets blown up and the play breaks down from the get go, forcing him to improvise?

The impression I got from Anthony's posts is that he was trying to say is that the fact that Russell is under pressure more than other quarterbacks is proof that our OL has played poorly. It is evidence that can support that argument, but it's not proof that the argument is correct.

The bottom line is that a quarterback's play and the performance of the offensive line are closely intertwined and it is very difficult to separate if you're trying to assign blame.

[Anthony]

I think that’s the point he’s (RD) making. All stats can be misleading. You do a great job of finding stats to support your arguments, but we all realize that these stats are imperfect, they rarely tell the whole story. We have to take the stats and try to put them into whatever ‘known’ contexts that we can. The problem with this particular argument are that there are too many unknowns to use them to come to any sort of defeinitive conclusions. Yes, the O-line has been bad- but was that due to scheme, RW holding onto the ball (which could also be considered scheme), poor routes by WR, bad running back play, etc... there are just as many Q’s that come up when talking about RW holding the ball too long.

That's exactly what I was saying. There's not many subjects that you can discuss where you can't find a stat to support your opinion, and the question as to what's the cause of quarterback pressure is a classic example. Russell does hold onto the ball longer than most quarterbacks. That is an undeniable fact. But does he receive more pressure because he's holding onto the ball too long or his he holding onto the ball longer because someone on the OL gets blown up and the play breaks down from the get go, forcing him to improvise?

The impression I got from Anthony's posts is that he was trying to say is that the fact that Russell is under pressure more than other quarterbacks is proof that our OL has played poorly. It is evidence that can support that argument, but it's not proof that the argument is correct.

The bottom line is that a quarterback's play and the performance of the offensive line are closely intertwined and it is very difficult to separate if you're trying to assign blame.[/quote]


As i said Wilson deserves some blame, however as I also said he is far down on the list. Play calling matters, play design matters, down and distance, rbs, tes, oline, wrs. However my issue has been with the one in question is his constant eluding to Wilson being the main problem. My last pount was even in 2.5 seconds or less Wilson was still the most hit, hurried, sacked, and presured qb wasn in his response to the narrative an oline only needs to hold their blocks for 2.5 seconds. His insisting that anything other than it being wilson is an excuse initself an excuse for the other factors to include oline. I have for the 2nd time left an olive branch we will see what happens. In the meantime lets hope the improved oline play continues.

[RiverDog]

As i said Wilson deserves some blame, however as I also said he is far down on the list. Play calling matters, play design matters, down and distance, rbs, tes, oline, wrs. However my issue has been with thr one inquestion is his constant eluding to Wilson being the main problem. My last pount was even in 2.5 seconds or less Wilson was still the most hit, hurried, sacked, and presured qb wasn in his response to the narrative an oline only needs to hold their bloxlcks for 2.5 seconds. His insisting that anything other than it being wilson is an excuse initself an excuse for the other factors to include oline. I have for the 2nd time left an omive branch we will see what happens. In the meantime lets hope the improved oline play continues.

That's where the rub is, Anthony, and is the root cause of your peeing contest with Roach. Your saying that Russell's culpability in our pass protection failures is "far down the list" is analogous to saying that it's a trivial concern, just like when you said that he deserves "zero" blame for the interception in SB 49. You're making excuses for him.

And as far as our improved OL play goes, it's not just the OL that has stepped up their game. Russell is getting the ball out of his hands quicker and is stepping up into the pocket more frequently than he did in the first two games of the season. He was part of the cause of our pass protection problems in our first two games and is part of the improvement in the past 4. Running the ball more effectively hasn't hurt, either.

[Anthony]

That's where the rub is, Anthony, and is the root cause of your peeing contest with Roach. Your saying that Russell's culpability in our pass protection failures is "far down the list" is analogous to saying that it's a trivial concern, just like when you said that he deserves "zero" blame for the interception in SB 49. You're making excuses for him.

And as far as our improved OL play goes, it's not just the OL that has stepped up their game. Russell is getting the ball out of his hands quicker and is stepping up into the pocket more frequently than he did in the first two games of the season. He was part of the cause of our pass protection problems in our first two games and is part of the improvement in the past 4. Running the ball more effectively hasn't hurt, either.

You see there is the rub, one i never said zero blame for the sb, just he is lower on the list. So let me get this straight, just saying he has fault isnt enough, it has to be at whatever level some think is should be. So how petty. Look last game when he through the int i blamed him and no one else. However when he is a contributing factor i will say it, but i will also make it clear were he sits on the list. If some have a problem to bad. I dont ask them to clarify, or if they say someone is more to blame than another. I might disagree with them but I dont pitch a witch about them saying there is level of blame, and i dont say they are making excuses. Example i pur coaching higher than wilson on oline issues, even higher than the oline itself but he seems to be okat with that. I put play design lower than oline but he is not syaing thats an excuse for them. Only with regards to wilson, who I said has fault. So some here have gotten so petty saying fault isnt enough it has to be at whatever level. Maybe if some here dis not always make it out like the oline has no fault, or it is mostly Wilson others would not not feel Like they need to qualify everything they say. However that is not the way some on this forum work. So yes Wilson deserves some blame, however there were other bigger isues. Point in case i looked back every mention of oline issues, were he posts there is a but or attempt to deflect to someone or something else, qhich could be taken as excuses, but for him according to what you are implying seems okay. Bybthe standard you and him are setting anypne other than the biggest reason is being given an excuse, which is twistwd at best.

So I will make it clear one more time. The oline had been garbage. Many factors go into that, oline, coaching, wrs, te, rbs, qbs, play calling, play design, down distance, situation. The qb is on the list but not even top 5. No excuse about him being part of the problem, just he is not the biggeat problem. Would take some twisted logic to call it an excuse, perhaps that is the problem.

[politicalfootball]

This is really good news about the OL and we have the rest of the season to see more improvement. That is a big turnaround from last season. I credit the coaching and staying with the same players. 7

[Anthony]

This is really good news about the OL and we have the rest of the season to see more improvement. That is a big turnaround from last season. I credit the coaching and staying with the same players. 7

I totalys agree, one thing this has shown me is oline was not the #1 issue. It was coaching it lack there of.

[HumanCockroach]

Whatever Anthony, another false statement, another generalization, another bucket of bunk. I call a spade a spade, when everyone losing their minds about the line, and I point out Wilson is holding the ball to long, or that he is running into sacks, I'm not claiming the line is exempt of blame, nor that Wilson is, I'm pointing out that they work TOGETHER, and BOTH hold some amount of responsibility.

You see, unlike many, I see the entirety of what occurs, not just what I WANT to see.... hence, everytime someone says the line is garbage, I call them on it, everytime I do that, doesn't mean that Wilson is entirely to blame, it means that neither is alone, and they BOTH hold responsibility... clearly, you don't grasp the team game thing, and aren't capable of deciphering between being honest, and alluding to, or outright bashing a player.

I have NEVER bashed a SINGLE player in this forum. Whether you want to force that lie or not, doesn't change that. I've defended, applauded, and advocated for Wilson THOUSANDS of times on this site, just because you're incapable of recognizing it, doesn't change that. I've stated HUNDREDS of times he is the ONLY QB in the NFL I would want, I love the guy, and ain't afraid of saying it, BUT unlike you clearly, when I love or care about someone, I can STILL be honest, and forthcoming. That's YOU'RE problem, not mine.

So piss on your olive branch. I could care less what somebody that's been personally attacking me ( you think I miss all those slights? Really? I just act like an adult, and ignore them) for YEARS does with their branch. Keep your branch and find somewhere to shove it. You want to discuss football like a grown up? Fine, I can do that, but I'm done with the lies, mud slinging and childishness of your ignorant claims.

[Anthony]

Whatever Anthony, another false statement, another generalization, another bucket of bunk. I call a spade a spade, when everyone losing their minds about the line, and I point out Wilson is holding the ball to long, or that he is running into sacks, I'm not claiming the line is exempt of blame, nor that Wilson is, I'm pointing out that they work TOGETHER, and BOTH hold some amount of responsibility.

You see, unlike many, I see the entirety of what occurs, not just what I WANT to see.... hence, everytime someone says the line is garbage, I call them on it, everytime I do that, doesn't mean that Wilson is entirely to blame, it means that neither is alone, and they BOTH hold responsibility... clearly, you don't grasp the team game thing, and aren't capable of deciphering between being honest, and alluding to, or outright bashing a player.

I have NEVER bashed a SINGLE player in this forum. Whether you want to force that lie or not, doesn't change that. I've defended, applauded, and advocated for Wilson THOUSANDS of times on this site, just because you're incapable of recognizing it, doesn't change that. I've stated HUNDREDS of times he is the ONLY QB in the NFL I would want, I love the guy, and ain't afraid of saying it, BUT unlike you clearly, when I love or care about someone, I can STILL be honest, and forthcoming. That's YOU'RE problem, not mine.

So piss on your olive branch. I could care less what somebody that's been personally attacking me ( you think I miss all those slights? Really? I just act like an adult, and ignore them) for YEARS does with their branch. Keep your branch and find somewhere to shove it. You want to discuss football like a grown up? Fine, I can do that, but I'm done with the lies, mud slinging and childishness of your ignorant claims.

You know dude I have tried the olive branch twice wth you, tried moving on, but you just don't know when the stop. As to mudslinging look in the mirror. As to your back peddling, misdirection whatever. As to the rest, you can keep this thing going with yourself, For the sake of this board, I am done with you. have a nice life.

[HumanCockroach]

Well....
Bye....

Lmfao

[RiverDog]

You see there is the rub, one i never said zero blame for the sb, just he is lower on the list.

Oh, yes you did! I remember it distinctly, and just about every poster on the board called you out on it. But be that as it may, it wasn't the main point of my reply.

So let me get this straight, just saying he has fault isnt enough, it has to be at whatever level some think is should be.

That's essentially correct. By saying that Russell's culpability in our pass protection issues is "way down the list" you're essentially saying that it's inconsequential. I'm not saying it should be assigned any specific priority, but your assessment is extremely biased and a completely inadequate explanation of our woes IMO. Russell's decision making/management of the pocket is not just some random event, it's a major component of the equation.

However when he is a contributing factor i will say it, but i will also make it clear were he sits on the list.

No better example than that statement. In your view, every transgression Russell ever makes is nothing more than a "contributing factor" to the problem. According to you, his mistakes are never the root cause of our team's misfortunes. You constantly look for ways to rationalize or trivialize his mistakes and will cherry pick stats to support your arguments.

So I will make it clear one more time. The oline had been garbage. Many factors go into that, oline, coaching, wrs, te, rbs, qbs, play calling, play design, down distance, situation. The qb is on the list but not even top 5.

You didn't have to clear that up, I understood you perfectly. Your statement is an accurate representation of our disagreement.

[Anthony]

You didn't have to clear that up, I understood you perfectly. Your statement is an accurate representation of our disagreement.

So basically you and your boy b**** when someone said he had no culpability, then you b**** when they say he does but it is low, Seems to me if they don't agree 100% with you-you b****, Great that is your problem. If someone is on the list of contributing factors to a problem they are part of the problem period. no matter how little or much. If you two want to just look for ways to take something so you can b**** go for it, that's your issue, not mine. As to the rest of your post since you supplied to the evidence I will ignore it.

SO I will try this again; there are many issues with the problems of the Oline in the last, some are bigger factors than others; oline, coaching, scheme, play call, play design, rbs, tes, wrs, Qbs, situation etc. All contribute and all have culpability but some have more than others. according to the experts(majority), the stats, facts and my own eyes the QB is not in the top 5. In fact I no longer even put Oline as #1 they are lower as this year has shown coaching, play call, play design, and the scheme was a bigger issue. So they are now 5th which is funny since in my previous post I sai the Qb was 5th or 6th Hmm. However for some putting the QB anyplace but where they want is an excuse, yet they make excuses galore for that oline HMM

[NorthHawk]

You're taking things too personally, Anthony. People might be baiting you.

The problem with this discussion is the participants are looking at only the pass blocking in isolation as being an issue under Cable.
However, they go hand in hand. Without a valid threat of a run game, opposing Defenses could focus on rushing the passer.
Wilson had a hand in the ineptitude, too by holding on too long and trying to make the big play instead of the safe play to move the chains.
Couple that with Cables now infamous "Matador Blocking Scheme" and trouble was just about guaranteed.
Solari's change to more of a power scheme and bringing in physical players has brought the run game back into focus.
Then what happened? Our pass game came alive, too. Because they are interrelated and need each other to be successful.
We've seen some screen plays and effective draws, too which I'm sure surprised the Defenses to a degree.

It's just too bad they didn't figure this out 3 or 4 years ago.

[Anthony]

You're taking things too personally, Anthony. People might be baiting you.

The problem with this discussion is the participants are looking at only the pass blocking in isolation as being an issue under Cable.
However, they go hand in hand. Without a valid threat of a run game, opposing Defenses could focus on rushing the passer.
Wilson had a hand in the ineptitude, too by holding on too long and trying to make the big play instead of the safe play to move the chains.
Couple that with Cables now infamous "Matador Blocking Scheme" and trouble was just about guaranteed.
Solari's change to more of a power scheme and bringing in physical players has brought the run game back into focus.
Then what happened? Our pass game came alive, too. Because they are interrelated and need each other to be successful.
We've seen some screen plays and effective draws, too which I'm sure surprised the Defenses to a degree.

It's just too bad they didn't figure this out 3 or 4 years ago.

Thought they had something figured out in latter 2015, maybe they will incorporate some of those things as well soon. That said so far so good, lets hope they can keep things going.

[NorthHawk]

Thought they had something figured out in latter 2015, maybe they will incorporate some of those things as well soon.

Apparently not as evidenced by our production 2015 - 2017.
There was an uptick, if I remember correctly, but it didn't last.

[Anthony]

Apparently not as evidenced by our production 2015 - 2017.
There was an uptick, if I remember correctly, but it didn't last.

exactly there was an uptick in latter 2015 when they ran an uptempo WCO type scheme and then they went away from it again, despite it working. PC wants his scheme and seems unwilling to deviate unless he has no choice, and while it worked well for a couple of years up until this year it has not. That said so far, we will see how it goes.

[HumanCockroach]

Get them peepers checked jock boy. Vision is important.

[Anthony]

Report: Seahawks' Brown, Ifedi ranked 5th-best, pass-blocking tackle duo in NFL

[url}https://www.seattlepi.com/sports/seahawks/article/Report-Seahawks-Brown-Ifedi-ranked-5th-best-13326967.php[/url}

what a difference a new coach makes

[idhawkman]

After listening to this podcast, I'm pretty stoked about the Seahawks this season. DJ is probably the best off season move we made by far.

Best quote from the podcast is: "he be alright, its football." Quote from DJ after body slamming a DE and the DE was mentioned to be coughing up blood on the sidelines.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/537271/dj-fluker-danny-dave-moore/

[Anthony]

After listening to this podcast, I'm pretty stoked about the Seahawks this season. DJ is probably the best off season move we made by far.

Best quote from the podcast is: "he be alright, its football." Quote from DJ after body slamming a DE and the DE was mentioned to be coughing up blood on the sidelines.

http://sports.mynorthwest.com/537271/dj-fluker-danny-dave-moore/

LOL coughing up blood, wow. yeah I am stoked too, so far so good, hope they keep it up. We will know if this is for real soon as there are a few really good d-lines coming up.

[idhawkman]

LOL coughing up blood, wow. yeah I am stoked too, so far so good, hope they keep it up. We will know if this is for real soon as there are a few really good d-lines coming up.

To me, there is no better D line in the league than the Rams and I saw DJs attitude lift our Oline in our game against them. When Fluker pancaked Suh it told me all I needed to know about his attitude and ability on the oline. If Suh didn't scare DJ, no one is gonna. I wonder how different our season would be if we had DJ for the first couple of games.

[RiverDog]

After listening to this podcast, I'm pretty stoked about the Seahawks this season. DJ is probably the best off season move we made by far

IMO cleaning house was the best offseason move we've made, but if you want to revise your statement to say that Fluker was the best offseason player aquisition, then I could be talked into agreeing with you. I can't think of a better player move, either via draft, trade, or release.

[Anthony]

IMO cleaning house was the best offseason move we've made, but if you want to revise your statement to say that Fluker was the best offseason player aquisition, then I could be talked into agreeing with you. I can't think of a better player move, either via draft, trade, or release.

I agree on cleaning house, and I believe Fluker may have been the best offseason move, maybe of the last couple of years.

[idhawkman]

After listening to this podcast, I'm pretty stoked about the Seahawks this season. DJ is probably the best off season move we made by far

IMO cleaning house was the best offseason move we've made, but if you want to revise your statement to say that Fluker was the best offseason player aquisition, then I could be talked into agreeing with you. I can't think of a better player move, either via draft, trade, or release.

If by "Cleaning house" is more specifically pointed toward the coaching staffs, then yes I agree. Although I do think it was a good thing to get rid of Bennett and Sherman, too. So as a whole, yes, the cleaning house was the best move but the coaching staff cleaning house was by far the best part of the entire cleaning house. E.g. if we had the new coaches only and still had Bennett and Sherman I think we'd still be really good this year.

[RiverDog]

If by "Cleaning house" is more specifically pointed toward the coaching staffs, then yes I agree. Although I do think it was a good thing to get rid of Bennett and Sherman, too. So as a whole, yes, the cleaning house was the best move but the coaching staff cleaning house was by far the best part of the entire cleaning house. E.g. if we had the new coaches only and still had Bennett and Sherman I think we'd still be really good this year.

Agreed. We'd be at least as good as we are now if Bennett and Sherman were still on the roster. But keep in mind that "just as good" is still only a .500 ball club.

Getting rid of Bennett and Sherman were moves were made with an eye towards 2019 or 2020, and there's the argument about their not being "in" anymore.

[idhawkman]

Getting rid of Bennett and Sherman were moves were made with an eye towards 2019 or 2020, and there's the argument about their not being "in" anymore.

No doubt. We should be set pretty good for the next couple of years Cap wise but we'll still be picking late in every round as I believe we are going to make the playoffs and that we will be making some noise there, too.

[politicalfootball]

We are going to need a good line vs Green Bay to stay in this one. We need a run game. Any one know if Christian Carson is starting ?

[politicalfootball]

We are going to need a good line vs Green Bay to stay in this one. We need a run game. Any one know if Chris Carson is starting ?

[politicalfootball]

We need a good line vs Green Bay or we won't win

[NorthHawk]

Fluker, Carson, McDougald, and Wright didn't practice on Thursday because of injuries.
As well, Tedric Thompson was limited in practice by a quadraceps injury.
I haven't read anything official, but it sounds like all will be questionable or maybe doubtful in McDougald's case.

The Rams are healthy, but that's the way it goes when teams are having a good year.

[RiverDog]

Fluker, Carson, McDougald, and Wright didn't practice on Thursday because of injuries.
As well, Tedric Thompson was limited in practice by a quadraceps injury.
I haven't read anything official, but it sounds like all will be questionable or maybe doubtful in McDougald's case.

Yea, I saw that. It was going to be a Herculean task even with all those guys healthy.

The Rams are healthy, but that's the way it goes when teams are having a good year.

It sure seems that way. The stars have to line up in order to have a SB season. Injuries and Lady Luck.

[idhawkman]

It sure seems that way. The stars have to line up in order to have a SB season. Injuries and Lady Luck.

Agree it will be herculean but we do have a pretty good blue print from last week's Saints/Rams game. Saints have a short strong armed QB like we have. They have a couple of good RBs like we have (when healthy). Defenses may also be comparable.

It won't be easy and we can't have brain f@rts like last week's game by key people but there is a chance.....

[Rambo2014]

Rams this weekend won't hardly break a sweat!

Like pulling candy out of a baby!

Rams 45
Sea 13

Then you guys win only 3 more at most