Interesting stats Wilson

[Anthony]

Wilson is the only QB this season to not post a rating under 85 in any one game.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2018/11/25/18111680/russell-wilson-is-good-seahawks-panthers-stats-recaps-twitter-reacts

[obiken]

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Wilson
4. Rogers
5.Rivers
6 Luck

I just think RW is Elite, but no one, not even Hawk fans, want to admit it.

[Anthony]

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Wilson
4. Rogers
5.Rivers
6 Luck

I just think RW is Elite, but no one, not even Hawk fans, want to admit it.

I agree with you and posted an overwhelming amount of facts and stats to prove it in another thread. You can guess what the few had to say.

[jshawaii22]

I think for the Elite tag you draw the "Elite" line after Brady and Breez right now. No, Wilson is not there, but he is in the next group of 3-4, which includes Ben, Rivers and others
I think you need to require, say, 4 years or a 'ring'' before the youngsters can enter the list. You also can enter that Elite group and then leave -- like A Rodgers and Russell would seem to be.
Wilson had 2 off years -- he has been in the Elite group by the SB year, as he had the 3 great years.. one leading up to the SB and the 2 SB years, but then 2 erratic years, understandable with all the locker room turmoil, divorce, marriage, death threats... you know all that stuff that he had to deal with. He's had too many bad games to be 'elite' at this time, but his arrow is pointing up. Finish 11-5 and ask us again.

[Anthony]

I think for the Elite tag you draw the "Elite" line after Brady and Breez right now. No, Wilson is not there, but he is in the next group of 3-4, which includes Ben, Rivers and others
I think you need to require, say, 4 years or a 'ring'' before the youngsters can enter the list. You also can enter that Elite group and then leave -- like A Rodgers and Russell would seem to be.
Wilson had 2 off years -- he has been in the Elite group by the SB year, as he had the 3 great years.. one leading up to the SB and the 2 SB years, but then 2 erratic years, understandable with all the locker room turmoil, divorce, marriage, death threats... you know all that stuff that he had to deal with. He's had too many bad games to be 'elite' at this time, but his arrow is pointing up. Finish 11-5 and ask us again.

I agree with most of what you said, don't agree with 2 off years. I mean being the only player to account for over 80% of your offensive yards and over 95% of your offensive TDs is not an off year. It is just a year where he had to do everything. That said even if we agree 2 off years, those 2 off years are better than 80% of the QBs in the league best years and even those 2 Qbs you say are elite have had multiple bad years. My feeling is if our Fg kicker made just half of those missed kicks last year and we made the playoff this would not even be open for debate, well for most open-minded people. That said given how you break down Elite I am okay with it

[HumanCockroach]

1. Brady
2. Brees
3. Wilson
4. Rogers
5.Rivers
6 Luck

I just think RW is Elite, but no one, not even Hawk fans, want to admit it.

Elite is subjective. Until I see more consistency, and the elevation of players around him, I'll happily stick with very, very good.

[Anthony]

Elite is subjective. Until I see more consistency, and the elevation of players around him, I'll happily stick with very, very good.

Sorry don't believe it for a minute you will find another excuse by the way he already is as consistent as any other Elite QB and already elevates the players around him as PC has said on many occasion. That said believe what you want, given the facts and stats say otherwise you only look sad.

[HumanCockroach]

Don't give two shakes about your belief, your thoughts or feelings on the matter. You're entitled to your man crush opinion, I'm entitled to my more grounded one. What you feel about it is completely irrelevant.

And again, stats aren't facts, try as you might to make them so. To date you've supplied zero facts, only some statistics to back your love affair with a professional athlete.

I could do the same, citing how receivers who left had career years, and claim them ignorantly as you do as "facts" that Wilson holds them back.... the difference being, that I account for greater data than simply convenient facts. I actually think, something you continue to struggle with.

[Anthony]

Don't give two shakes about your belief, your thoughts or feelings on the matter. You're entitled to your man crush opinion, I'm entitled to my more grounded one. What you feel about it is completely irrelevant.

And again, stats aren't facts, try as you might to make them so. To date you've supplied zero facts, only some statistics to back your love affair with a professional athlete.

I could do the same, citing how receivers who left had career years, and claim them ignorantly as you do as "facts" that Wilson holds them back.... the difference being, that I account for greater data than simply convenient facts. I actually think, something you continue to struggle with.

IF you don't "give to shakes" than stop reading my fact and stat based posts. Right no the problem is all you do is claim, no factor stats just claims. FYI you really can only name one Wr that left and did anything, that was Tate. However, there are alot that left and did nothing without Wilson. We do I agree that really shows little since there are other factors, but the point is you would only prove my point if you went down that route. Stats are not facts, oh let time guess you also believe truth is not the truth. Let me help you a stats is a fact, For instance if you throw 30 passes and complete 15 that means you completed 50% of your passes that is a fact and a stat. Got it, Like I said believe what you want, it is okay your sad, I forgive you.

[I-5]

Don't give two shakes about your belief, your thoughts or feelings on the matter. You're entitled to your man crush opinion, I'm entitled to my more grounded one. What you feel about it is completely irrelevant.

And again, stats aren't facts, try as you might to make them so. To date you've supplied zero facts, only some statistics to back your love affair with a professional athlete.

I could do the same, citing how receivers who left had career years, and claim them ignorantly as you do as "facts" that Wilson holds them back.... the difference being, that I account for greater data than simply convenient facts. I actually think, something you continue to struggle with.

Sincerely wondering what the difference between stats and facts are. For sure, 'elite' is an opinion, by the very fact it can be debated. Stats can't be argued, although their interpretation can be.

[HumanCockroach]

Facts aren't stats, stats stands for statistics, and can be manipulated at will to enforce one's OPINION. For example everytime Anthony is busy making excuses.

It's zero different than a Colts fan insisting Luck is better than Wilson because he threw for more yards ( but conveniently neglect to add passing attempt differences) or the niner guy on this board insisting that Tate wasn't a good receiver because he never garnered a thousand yards ( neglecting targets) etc....

They are manipulated to support an opinion, facts are truths, not statistics minus key absences of all the information.

[Anthony]

Facts aren't stats, stats stands for statistics, and can be manipulated at will to enforce one's OPINION. For example everytime Anthony is busy making excuses.

It's zero different than a Colts fan insisting Luck is better than Wilson because he threw for more yards ( but conveniently neglect to add passing attempt differences) or the niner guy on this board insisting that Tate wasn't a good receiver because he never garnered a thousand yards ( neglecting targets) etc....

They are manipulated to support an opinion, facts are truths, not statistics minus key absences of all the information.

Yes and the truth is not the truth, thanks Rudi J sad. By the way seems like you just made an excuse for why we should ignore the facts and stats way to go Rudi J. sad.

[Clem7]

Elite subject can be argued forever.

My take is if you are one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the National Football League (and planet Earth), you are elite.

[idhawkman]

Elite subject can be argued forever.

My take is if you are one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the National Football League (and planet Earth), you are elite.

So I could go with Elite being a "Relative" position. E.g. Russell is elite compared to ALL other QBs regardless of age or level that they play at today. That's pretty easy to see that.

However, he's not really "Elite" compared to all other QBs who played in the NFL. e.g. Marino, Staubach, Baugh, etc. He still has the chance to make it to that level but as of now, he's not there in my opinion.

[RiverDog]

Facts aren't stats, stats stands for statistics, and can be manipulated at will to enforce one's OPINION. For example everytime Anthony is busy making excuses.

It's zero different than a Colts fan insisting Luck is better than Wilson because he threw for more yards ( but conveniently neglect to add passing attempt differences) or the niner guy on this board insisting that Tate wasn't a good receiver because he never garnered a thousand yards ( neglecting targets) etc....

They are manipulated to support an opinion, facts are truths, not statistics minus key absences of all the information.

I normally agree with you, but not on this one.

Statistics are facts. They are a mathematically correct and cannot be disputed. If Russell completes 10 of 20 passes, saying he completed 50% of his passes is stating a fact. What can be disputed is how those stats were collected. If, for example, someone included playoff games in their calculations, you could argue that the information is invalid, but you can't say that 2 plus 2 equals anything else besides 4.

As you pointed out, the rub comes is the interpetation of stats, including some stats but overlooking others, ie cherry picking, and drawing conclusions based on them, ie Russell had a great game because he completed 50% of his passes.

[RiverDog]

Elite subject can be argued forever.

My take is if you are one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the National Football League (and planet Earth), you are elite.

There are 32 starting quarterbacks in the NFL. Saying that nearly a third of them, indeed a third of anything, is 'elite' or exceptional does not fit my definition. You'd be an easy instructor if all a student had to do to get a gold star from you was to finish in the top third of the class.

IMO 'elite' suggests at least top 10%, or in this case, 3 or 4 players.

[idhawkman]

Any single stat on its own is a fact. They quit being facts when you combine them or compare them between people.

E.g. someone completes 50% of their passes in a game. That's a fact for that game. However, comparing that game with a different player on another team playing the same opponent has too many variables to be able to use that stat as a barometer. Team one may have been 2 scores behind and were completing 50% of their passes (10/20) but team two was 3 scores up and went 50% also (2/4). Which is the better passer? Was the same defensive players available? Was the weather the same? Did someon have the flu in one game and not the other game, etc.

Now on the flip side, if you include too many stats to do the comparison it also becomes skewed because the more stats added the more the differences between two players become until there's no comparison at all.

Therefore an individual stat for that game is valid but after that it fails to be factual in comparisons.

[Anthony]

Elite subject can be argued forever.

My take is if you are one of the top 10 quarterbacks in the National Football League (and planet Earth), you are elite.

I actually agree with you, but some here cant have Wilson be Elite so they have to change the rules, stats, and facts to support them.

[Anthony]

So I could go with Elite being a "Relative" position. E.g. Russell is elite compared to ALL other QBs regardless of age or level that they play at today. That's pretty easy to see that.

However, he's not really "Elite" compared to all other QBs who played in the NFL. e.g. Marino, Staubach, Baugh, etc. He still has the chance to make it to that level but as of now, he's not there in my opinion.

I can agree with that because you have a complete career with all those older QBs and you don't with Wilson a lot can happen between now and then, He could fall of the shelf, he could make an even stronger case.

[politicalfootball]

I would argue that the record for games won would decide weather a player has elite status or not for example we go 10-6 or 11-5 and Russell Wilson is elite.

[Anthony]

I would argue that the record for games won would decide weather a player has elite status or not for example we go 10-6 or 11-5 and Russell Wilson is elite.

Well, that opens up more questions. Would that mean he was not elite this year or ever? For instance, NO was 7-9 2 years ago does that mean Brees is not elite? In fact, NO has been 8-8 or less 6 out of the 13 years does that mean he is not elite? Rodgers has had a record of 8-8 or less 4 times(only counted seasons he played over half the games), does that mean he is not elite? I mean Dilfer won an SB with a team that won a lot of game are we saying he is Elite? in 2016 Wilson got us into the Playoffs and a Playoff win with no Run game, an Oline Ranked 25th in pass blocking. In 2015 Wilson got us into the playoffs and a win with no run game(lynch was hurt most of the year). I mean Both Brees and Rodgers have not made the playoffs every year, and they are considered Elite. Since Wilson has been our QB we have never had a record worse than 9-7. Both Brees and Rodgers have. Over his 6 full season form 2012-2017 he is 65-31, Rodgers during that time is 55-41, Brees is 50-46, so I guess they are not Elite if Wilson is not and yet they are considered part of the big 3 of elite Qbs.

[HumanCockroach]

Any single stat on its own is a fact. They quit being facts when you combine them or compare them between people.

E.g. someone completes 50% of their passes in a game. That's a fact for that game. However, comparing that game with a different player on another team playing the same opponent has too many variables to be able to use that stat as a barometer. Team one may have been 2 scores behind and were completing 50% of their passes (10/20) but team two was 3 scores up and went 50% also (2/4). Which is the better passer? Was the same defensive players available? Was the weather the same? Did someon have the flu in one game and not the other game, etc.

Now on the flip side, if you include too many stats to do the comparison it also becomes skewed because the more stats added the more the differences between two players become until there's no comparison at all.

Therefore an individual stat for that game is valid but after that it fails to be factual in comparisons.

Yet a player that throws the ball twice, completing 50% for 1 net yards and a pick, compared to a player that threw it 57 times for 49% and 6 TDs 0 ints and 500 yards is???

That's the point I'm trying to illustrate.... saying player one had a "superior" game because his completion percentage was higher, is the type of "stats" ( or facts) people like Anthony cling to.... hence, not facts, but stats, cherry picked to support a position.

It causes almost perceptible pain through a message board for some to objectively acknowledge Wilson struggles ( and HAS struggled) throughout the bulk of his career early in games, and that those comebacks from holes are sometimes ( not always, but often enough) a product of those struggles, and erratic early game problems.

[HumanCockroach]

See previous post for example, in it, all credit and detriment given to STRICTLY the QB with zero acknowledgement of the team around them ( except for Wilson where lack of run game and offensive line struggles are cited), quality of players surrounding them... ie 2016 Wilson had a top 5 defense, Brees in his example had the worst defense historically in NFL history... yet Wilson "did it on his own" and Brees failed.... this is the type of incredible hypocracy and blindness of which I speak.... notice in this instance ZERO stats included.... but if Wilson had a comparable season offensively, and failed to reach the postseason, there would be TONS of stats, backing how elite Wilson was, and how much "fault" others possessed... I guarantee it.

[Anthony]

Yet a player that throws the ball twice, completing 50% for 1 net yards and a pick, compared to a player that threw it 57 times for 49% and 6 TDs 0 ints and 500 yards is???

That's the point I'm trying to illustrate.... saying player one had a "superior" game because his completion percentage was higher, is the type of "stats" ( or facts) people like Anthony cling to.... hence, not facts, but stats, cherry picked to support a position.

It causes almost perceptible pain through a message board for some to objectively acknowledge Wilson struggles ( and HAS struggled) throughout the bulk of his career early in games, and that those comebacks from holes are sometimes ( not always, but often enough) a product of those struggles, and erratic early game problems.

LOL still trying to convince us t eh truth is not the truth. Let me explain it to you the way my friend explained it to his 2nd-grade class maybe that will help. If a qb throws the ball 30 times, that is a fact. If 20 are caught by his team that is a fact. so its a fact he threw 30, its a fact they caught 20, it is also a fact he completed 66.6% of his passes. Now if you want to argue what that means to you, fine go for it, to any sane person 66.6 is really good. But that's the same person. All that said the stats of 66.6% complete is a fact. Hopefully, this helps you.

[Anthony]

See previous post for example, in it, all credit and detriment given to STRICTLY the QB with zero acknowledgement of the team around them ( except for Wilson where lack of run game and offensive line struggles are cited), quality of players surrounding them... ie 2016 Wilson had a top 5 defense, Brees in his example had the worst defense historically in NFL history... yet Wilson "did it on his own" and Brees failed.... this is the type of incredible hypocracy and blindness of which I speak.... notice in this instance ZERO stats included.... but if Wilson had a comparable season offensively, and failed to reach the postseason, there would be TONS of stats, backing how elite Wilson was, and how much "fault" others possessed... I guarantee it.

Blah blah blah all this crap so you can continue to push your false narrative. Actually, a lot of what you say in this post is actually lies, but you know that, don't your Rudi J.

[HumanCockroach]

Oh, there's crap.... see previous two posts for examples.

Now pipe down, adults that know about football discussing grown up things.

[Anthony]

Oh, there's crap.... see previous two posts for examples.

Now pipe down, adults that know about football discussing grown up things.

RUDI, RUDi RUDI, sorry wrong Rudi you are Rudi J and your "the truth is not the truth and facts are not facts" LOL. let me know when you grow up and can post some facts to support your BS at least then it would be fun, right now it and you are just pathetic.

[HumanCockroach]

Adults, your input isn't needed.

[politicalfootball]

Well I think Wilson is elite ever since our Superbowl win vs Peyton Manning and the Broncos

[idhawkman]

Yet a player that throws the ball twice, completing 50% for 1 net yards and a pick, compared to a player that threw it 57 times for 49% and 6 TDs 0 ints and 500 yards is???

That's the point I'm trying to illustrate.... saying player one had a "superior" game because his completion percentage was higher, is the type of "stats" ( or facts) people like Anthony cling to.... hence, not facts, but stats, cherry picked to support a position.

It causes almost perceptible pain through a message board for some to objectively acknowledge Wilson struggles ( and HAS struggled) throughout the bulk of his career early in games, and that those comebacks from holes are sometimes ( not always, but often enough) a product of those struggles, and erratic early game problems.

I am pretty sure we are saying the same thing. When you add in the stat of INTs or attempts, etc it changes the perspective of the 50% completion rate and thus invalidates the "fact" of the stat.

[Hawktawk]

Good lord children!!!! WTF is wrong with everyone?

I'm not sure what "elite" is supposed to mean. Russ recently elevated his career passer rating over 100 with his stellar rankings throughout the season making he and Rodgers the only two men in the history of the game to do so. He's the first man to throw for at least 30 TD's,4000 yards and rush for 500 in a season which he did twice becoming the only QB to have done so. He owns the Seahawks record for TD passes in a season at 34 which he's done twice and last year it was enough to lead the league while also leading the team in rushing. He was the first man in the history of MNF to rush for 100 and throw for 200 and the first man in the history of the NFL to throw for 300 and rush for 100 and has come within a whisker of doing it numerous other times with rushing yards in the 80's and 90's and passing yards well over 300. I know Im forgetting many other firsts and NFL records and team records which he has almost every one halfway through his seventh season in a 40 year old franchise.
Does he have bad plays? does he have some slow starts? Bad throws? missed reads? Fumbles(probably his biggest flaw)
OF COURSE. EVERYONE DOES.

He's not perfect. Maybe he's no Brady but Brady isn't Wilson either.

I love the guy and hes as elite as anyone, probably the most Dangerruss dual threat QB in history, headed for the HOF in 10 to 15 years. He's never missed a PRACTICE and played through things that would have benched most QBs. He's never embarrassed the team off the field and conducts himself with pure class at all times.Fans who want to rag on wilson just have amnesia thinking back on the mutts and mudbones and wimps and china dolls this franchise has had way too many of. Be thankful. You don't know what you have till its gone and in this league its one play away.

[Anthony]

Good lord children!!!! WTF is wrong with everyone?

I'm not sure what "elite" is supposed to mean. Russ recently elevated his career passer rating over 100 with his stellar rankings throughout the season making he and Rodgers the only two men in the history of the game to do so. He's the first man to throw for at least 30 TD's,4000 yards and rush for 500 in a season which he did twice becoming the only QB to have done so. He owns the Seahawks record for TD passes in a season at 34 which he's done twice and last year it was enough to lead the league while also leading the team in rushing. He was the first man in the history of MNF to rush for 100 and throw for 200 and the first man in the history of the NFL to throw for 300 and rush for 100 and has come within a whisker of doing it numerous other times with rushing yards in the 80's and 90's and passing yards well over 300. I know Im forgetting many other firsts and NFL records and team records which he has almost every one halfway through his seventh season in a 40 year old franchise.
Does he have bad plays? does he have some slow starts? Bad throws? missed reads? Fumbles(probably his biggest flaw)
OF COURSE. EVERYONE DOES.

He's not perfect. Maybe he's no Brady but Brady isn't Wilson either.

I love the guy and hes as elite as anyone, probably the most Dangerruss dual threat QB in history, headed for the HOF in 10 to 15 years. He's never missed a PRACTICE and played through things that would have benched most QBs. He's never embarrassed the team off the field and conducts himself with pure class at all times.Fans who want to rag on wilson just have amnesia thinking back on the mutts and mudbones and wimps and china dolls this franchise has had way too many of. Be thankful. You don't know what you have till its gone and in this league its one play away.

Great post and post on add-in the only Player in NFL history to make up over 80% of the offensive yards, and over 95% of offensive TDs in a season. But there are some, who just can't see it or don't want to. it's sad, they're sad.

[Anthony]

I am pretty sure we are saying the same thing. When you add in the stat of INTs or attempts, etc it changes the perspective of the 50% completion rate and thus invalidates the "fact" of the stat.

Once again the stat is a fact, when you gain other facts your conclusion can change but the stat which is a fact does not.