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by **Hawktawk** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:09 am

I'm not a draft guru and one of the many things I love about this forum is that there are so many of them in here. What do you think? I've had a few debates with some of My Coug and Husky friends with opinions anywhere from mid rounds to free agents to not a chance? help me out guys and girls.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:53 am

They might get a sniff later in the draft, but I doubt either will make much of an impact in the NFL.
Minshew has been a surprise this year and a lot of people think he's just a system QB with an overabundance of stats caused by that system.
He might have a problem in a Pro style Offense, but you never know, he may just have needed an opportunity to show he can throw an accurate ball.

My guess if one or both are drafted is Browning before Minshew, but neither before the 5th round. But that's just a guess.

by **idhawkman** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:26 am

I think Boise State's Brett Rypien (nephew of SB winner Mark Rypien) will get drafted before either of those two get drafted. That said, I think it is a mistake as I've seen Rypien be spectacular when he has time but absolutely awful when he is pressured. I think he gets drafted partly becuase of his name.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:48 am

I thought Minshew was extremely accurate and poised most of the year with a pretty good sense of when it was time to bail out of the pocket. The snow in pullman doomed that offense along with the superior athletes and coach in the purple and gold. Minshew said after the game once he released the ball he couldn't see it. Browning seems solid but not spectacular. I guess we will see.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:52 pm

I don't see Minshew going in the top 3 rounds. He's a Johnny-Come-Lately and doesn't have enough starts to justify a team taking that big of a risk on him. We'll see how Browning does in his next two games. If the Huskies win the Pac 12, there's a good chance they'd play Ohio State in the Rose Bowl, and a good performance there could really help his stock. IMO he's a lot better QB than the previous Jake that came out of Montlake.

by **NorthHawk** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:46 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I thought Minshew was extremely accurate and poised most of the year with a pretty good sense of when it was time to bail out of the pocket. The snow in pullman doomed that offense along with the superior athletes and coach in the purple and gold. Minshew said after the game once he released the ball he couldn't see it. Browning seems solid but not spectacular. I guess we will see.

From what I saw, I agree and he (Minshew) put up some real good numbers, too but like mentioned above, he doesn't have much of a body of work for scouts/GM's/Coaches to
dissect in the film room compared to a 3 year or more starter. It's too bad for him because if he was in Leach's program for a few years he may be talked about as
a high round pick.

by **c_hawkbob** » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:37 pm

I'm not exactly a QB expert but I'd put Browning as a mid to late round pick and Minshew a 6/7/UDFA type. It's a bit early to make evaluations though, bowl games could have a huge impact. Tonight's a biggie for Jake too.

by **RiverDog** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:44 am

I watched about half of the Pac 12 Championship game, and Browning didn't do anything to pad his resume. Rose Bowl to follow.

by **NorthHawk** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:33 am

What Bowl game will the Cougs be playing in?

Edit:
I just looked up the predicted Bowl Game schedule and it looks like the Alamo Bowl on Dec 28th
against West Virginia and their highly touted QB Will Grier. It might be a 140 point game if both Offenses get untracked early.

by **obiken** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:56 am

RiverDog wrote:I watched about half of the Pac 12 Championship game, and Browning didn't do anything to pad his resume. Rose Bowl to follow.

He would be a good backup, good game manager, not great arm, but not ugly either. I just dont see Browning being a great NFL QB. Minshew was missed by the talent boys in the SEC, he should have been playing for Auburn or Mississippi, not WAZZU.

by **curmudgeon** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:07 am

Browning will probably be a good high school coach....

by **RiverDog** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:02 am

NorthHawk wrote:What Bowl game will the Cougs be playing in?

Edit:
I just looked up the predicted Bowl Game schedule and it looks like the Alamo Bowl on Dec 28th
against West Virginia and their highly touted QB Will Grier. It might be a 140 point game if both Offenses get untracked early.

The playoffs get announced tomorrow. The assumption is that Oklahoma will get the 4th playoff seed, but if Georgia were to upset Alabama later today, that would bump out the Sooners and they'd land in the Alamo.

The other secenerio is that Oklahoma either loses or doesn't play well vs. Texas and Ohio State blows the doors off Northwestern.

by **trents** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:31 pm

NorthHawk wrote:They might get a sniff later in the draft, but I doubt either will make much of an impact in the NFL.
Minshew has been a surprise this year and a lot of people think he's just a system QB with an overabundance of stats caused by that system.
He might have a problem in a Pro style Offense, but you never know, he may just have needed an opportunity to show he can throw an accurate ball.

My guess if one or both are drafted is Browning before Minshew, but neither before the 5th round. But that's just a guess.

I disagree with your analysis. Minshew has given the Cougs the downfield threat they have not had in years and he and his receivers have connected on many downfield routes this year. He's a very accurate passer both on short and long routes and has a strong arm. He can make all the throws. Northhawk, how may WSU games have you actually watched this year?

And IMO Minshew will get considerable attention from the pros but Browning will not. Browning is a great competitor but does not have an NFL skill set.

by **jshawaii22** » Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:56 pm

I think we said that about the last "Jake" that played QB and UDub, and he went 10th overall the Tennessee, so you never know, but the eyeball test says this Jake has regressed a lot over the 4 years. Not sure why, but he has, and it hasn't looked pretty.

Minshew also looked better the first 2/3 of this year, but didn't play well at the end -- His stock also fell, but should get a draft pick 3rd round down.

by **NorthHawk** » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:05 am

I disagree with your analysis. Minshew has given the Cougs the downfield threat they have not had in years and he and his receivers have connected on many downfield routes this year. He's a very accurate passer both on short and long routes and has a strong arm. He can make all the throws. Northhawk, how may WSU games have you actually watched this year?

And IMO Minshew will get considerable attention from the pros but Browning will not. Browning is a great competitor but does not have an NFL skill set.

I inferred the topic of this thread was where we thought the two QBs would be drafted.

Here's part of why I don't think Minshew will go very high if drafted at all.

He's had only 1 year of tape of him playing.
His play seemed to struggle a little down the stretch.
There is a train of thought that QBs in non Pro type Offenses like the Air Raid are "System QB's" and there is a prejudice against them.
He's not quite 6'1" according to NFLDraftScout (6006), so he's at the low end of the Height prejudice factor.
He doesn't have a huge arm, although probably good enough and he's not exceptionally mobile, but again isn't bad, which means he doesn't stand out in either aspect.

He seems to be able to throw into tight windows and has good touch on the ball and in a totally unbiased world, he would probably be considered higher,
but if history is any indication, I doubt he goes before the 5th round.
I hope I'm wrong and he ends up in a system that can accentuate his talents and becomes at a minimum a long term starter, but I just don't see it happening.

by **Hawktawk** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:51 am

jshawaii22 wrote:I think we said that about the last "Jake" that played QB and UDub, and he went 10th overall the Tennessee, so you never know, but the eyeball test says this Jake has regressed a lot over the 4 years. Not sure why, but he has, and it hasn't looked pretty.

Minshew also looked better the first 2/3 of this year, but didn't play well at the end -- His stock also fell, but should get a draft pick 3rd round down.

Minshew went off for 473 yards and SEVEN tds a week before the blizzard bowl . Not sure which games you’re talking about his play dropping off . His arm at the end of lots of close games was entirely the difference. As for browning he played himself out of any chance of being drafted with his dreadful performance. Vs Utah .

by **RiverDog** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:04 am

My take on Minshew is pretty much reflected by North Hawk. It's not so much about what he's been able to show this season, it's just that one year does not contain enough of a history for coaches and GM's to gain the type of confidence they need in order to risk their jobs by making him a top selection. I'd be willing to bet money that he won't be taken before 4th round, and even that assumes an ideal scenario for him, ie great bowl game, great Senior Bowl, outstanding performance in combine/pro days. Most likely he's a 5th-7th rounder if at all.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:32 am

As well, QBs from the Air Raid Offenses haven't done that well in the NFL.
The exceptions are Mahomes and Goff, neither of which were coached by Leach, and who's careers are still young, but they ended up in situations with outstanding Offensive Head Coaches.
Although things are changing, there are a lot of more conservative teams relative to Rams/KC than aggressive teams. It's unfortunate for him, but that's the current state in today's NFL.

He's the type of player that might make a good coach, though. He's had exposure to some great Offensive philosophies, and some of it has to rub off, so I expect to see him on the sidelines
as a coach if his playing career doesn't work out.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:23 pm

NorthHawk wrote:He's (Minshew) the type of player that might make a good coach, though. He's had exposure to some great Offensive philosophies, and some of it has to rub off, so I expect to see him on the sidelines
as a coach if his playing career doesn't work out.

Not that I disagree with your observation, but it's really hard to tell whether or not any player would make a good coach. For example, Peyton Manning was arguably the best quarterback in the game and sharp as a whip yet he had no interest in not only coaching, but even in being a mentor to an heir apparent. Bart Starr and Mike Singletary are two more examples of HOF players being flaming failures as coaches. One theory is that their mastery of the game causes them to be less tolerant of players that possess anything less than exceptional talent.

by **idhawkman** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:54 pm

RiverDog wrote:One theory is that their mastery of the game causes them to be less tolerant of players that possess anything less than exceptional talent.

Good point. I wonder if it could also be a little that they don't know how to use the unique traits of the people they have. E.g. the systems they played in had strong personalities at each position with specific skill sets. There's no way to ever duplicate that in a new team so you have to conform the talent you get or you have to find a way to integrate the talent you have that will make the team even stronger. So maybe they just didn't know how to coach the players they had into a good unit.

by **obiken** » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:21 pm

]

RiverDog wrote:One theory is that their mastery of the game causes them to be less tolerant of players that possess anything less than exceptional talent.

Bill Russell and Larry Bird were great examples of that in Basketball.

by **Hawktawk** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:24 am

https://247sports.com/college/washingto ... 125830976/

Nice piece of hardware and a pretty good article about this guys season. I realize he came out of nowhere but something tells me hes got what it takes to win some games on sunday.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:33 am

I hope this award and maybe others gives him a chance at the next level.

What are air hashes? I've never heard that expression.

Here's a quote from the article:

Minshew needs 121 passing yards in the Alamo Bowl to pass Connor Halliday for the WSU record for most air hashes in a single-season, and he needs 238 hashes to pass Jared Goff for the Pac-12 single-season record.

by **mykc14** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:10 am

NorthHawk wrote:I hope this award and maybe others gives him a chance at the next level.

What are air hashes? I've never heard that expression.

That’s just another way of saying yards. I haven’t heard that expression before either and I don’t really like it.

by **NorthHawk** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:15 am

That’s just another way of saying yards. I haven’t heard that expression before either and I don’t really like it.

Thanks. I was thinking passes but it didn't make sense.
It looks like the writer is trying to look smarter than he is.

by **RiverDog** » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:05 am

mykc14 wrote:What are air hashes? I've never heard that expression.

That’s just another way of saying yards. I haven’t heard that expression before either and I don’t really like it.

It wouldn't have applied in my football playing days as our fields were never marked with hash marks. We were lucky if the yard line stripes were marked in 5 yard increments.

It's an example of a sports writer trying to be cute.

by **HumanCockroach** » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:00 pm

Find it more likely that someone gambles on Minshew prior to doing the same on Browning. Think they'll both ultimately be drafted, but from what I've seen, Minshew not Browning wil be the qb teams will feel has more desirable traits.

Truthfully, it wouldn't shock me in the least to see Browning go undrafted but I think some team or other falls in love with his mental make up, as opposed to physical limitations holding him undrafted late.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:08 am

HumanCockroach wrote:Find it more likely that someone gambles on Minshew prior to doing the same on Browning. Think they'll both ultimately be drafted, but from what I've seen, Minshew not Browning wil be the qb teams will feel has more desirable traits.

Truthfully, it wouldn't shock me in the least to see Browning go undrafted but I think some team or other falls in love with his mental make up, as opposed to physical limitations holding him undrafted late.

When butt fumble Sanchez is under center after replacing Colt McCoy and Cody Kissler is starting and Winston and Fitzpatrick are playing musical benches its clear there's not enough good qbs in the league right now for all the teams

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:46 am

Hawktawk wrote:When butt fumble Sanchez is under center after replacing Colt McCoy and Cody Kissler is starting and Winston and Fitzpatrick are playing musical benches its clear there's not enough good qbs in the league right now for all the teams

This was discussed at great length yesterday morning on Sirius NFL. Especially at this time of year, teams will look to a quarterback that has some experience with their system vs. one that has greater talent (ie Colin Kaepernick) that would take longer to get up to speed, at least for teams like the Redskins, who are still in the playoff hunt. Kaepernick, in particular, would require a system designed for him as opposed to him adjusting to a system like the 'Skins.

by **Hawktawk** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:05 am

RiverDog wrote:
This was discussed at great length yesterday morning on Sirius NFL. Especially at this time of year, teams will look to a quarterback that has some experience with their system vs. one that has greater talent (ie Colin Kaepernick) that would take longer to get up to speed, at least for teams like the Redskins, who are still in the playoff hunt. Kaepernick, in particular, would require a system designed for him as opposed to him adjusting to a system like the 'Skins.

Yes I caught that interview as well RD. But let's get real. Kaep started a cancer in the league, divided a locker room, killed a really good coach and was basically a malcontent who shunned his leadership role. 9er execs and some players said off the record they weren't even sure he wanted to play.

Now he's suing the league. NOBODY is bringing him in. Adapting an offense to a skill set isn't rocket science. It's just an excuse. Hes banished

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:17 am

Hawktawk wrote:Yes I caught that interview as well RD. But let's get real. Kaep started a cancer in the league, divided a locker room, killed a really good coach and was basically a malcontent who shunned his leadership role. 9er execs and some players said off the record they weren't even sure he wanted to play.

Now he's suing the league. NOBODY is bringing him in. Adapting an offense to a skill set isn't rocket science. It's just an excuse. Hes banished

Yea, Kaep chit in his own nest. Had he just laid low, he might have a job. Especially now that he's suing the league, no one's going to want the distraction. But even if there wasn't the off field issues, he wouldn't have gotten a job this time of year.

I don't believe that there's been any collusion to keep Kaep out of the leauge, but it's clear that his politics and now his lawsuit is what has kept and is keeping teams from bringing him in.

by **HumanCockroach** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:41 pm

I wouldn't say it's collusion, but anybody thinking Kaepernik isn't a better football player than 65% or more of the QBs currently employed in the league shouldn't likely be evaluating QB ability.

I do find it interesting that Washington had zero issue claiming a woman beater with an extensive history of issues prior to even being drafted that likely helps them not at all this season, yet with the possibility of the playoffs felt a guy kneeling during the anthem was to much heat to handle.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:44 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:I wouldn't say it's collusion, but anybody thinking Kaepernik isn't a better football player than 65% or more of the QBs currently employed in the league shouldn't likely be evaluating QB ability.

I do find it interesting that Washington had zero issue claiming a woman beater with an extensive history of issues prior to even being drafted that likely helps them not at all this season, yet with the possibility of the playoffs felt a guy kneeling during the anthem was to much heat to handle.

Agreed that Kaepernick has better talent than 65% of the league. But I do not agree that he's a better fit than 65%, especially for a team like the Redskins that don't eve have a couple of weeks to get him up to speed. They need to win 3 of their last 4 then hope the stars line up.

And at this point, Kaep's lawsuit, regardless of the topic, is a distraction.

Agreed about the Skins signing Foster, though. But given who their owner is, it doesn't surprise me.

by **RiverDog** » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:41 pm

Back to the OP, I was just listening to Sirius NFL and they were interviewing one of the organizers of the Senior Bowl and he was giving Minshew some love (along with several other QB's), thinks he can make a roster. So we'll see.

by **Hawktawk** » Sat Dec 08, 2018 1:00 pm

HumanCockroach wrote:I wouldn't say it's collusion, but anybody thinking Kaepernik isn't a better football player than 65% or more of the QBs currently employed in the league shouldn't likely be evaluating QB ability.

I do find it interesting that Washington had zero issue claiming a woman beater with an extensive history of issues prior to even being drafted that likely helps them not at all this season, yet with the possibility of the playoffs felt a guy kneeling during the anthem was to much heat to handle.

I utterly DESPISE Kaep for bringing a cancer to the league but I completely agree with this statement HC. Its ridiculous Foster is on a roster if Kaep isn't.

To turn it to the flip side it's ironic guys like Kaep and those who followed him politicising a sport over police brutality seem to have no problem with fellow athletes beating the S#!t out of women. Nobody's kneeling for that.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:25 am

A cancer to the league?
Give me a break.
You can also cross system fit off the list, too for the Washington QB role as they put in some RPO and moving pocket plays for Johnson.
What they ended up with is a QB who is very much like Kaepernick, but a lesser talent who hadn't thrown a football in the NFL for 7 years.
The NFL is going to make a big payment to Kaep for blackballing him.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:58 am

NorthHawk wrote:You can also cross system fit off the list, too for the Washington QB role as they put in some RPO and moving pocket plays for Johnson.
What they ended up with is a QB who is very much like Kaepernick, but a lesser talent who hadn't thrown a football in the NFL for 7 years.
The NFL is going to make a big payment to Kaep for blackballing him.

Here's what Jay Gruden said:

Gruden said the fear with Kaepernick is that the team would have to "teach a whole new offense with a lot of zone-reads."

"There's not a lot of time to get a brand-new quarterback and system installed in a couple of days," he said. "He's been talked about, but we'll probably go in a different direction."

I'm not sure about you, but until shown otherwise, I'll take an NFL head coaches word as the truth, at least on an issue such as Kaepernick.

Besides, the fact that the Redskins brought in Foster within just 24 hours of his release by the Niners is evidence that they're not adverse to bringing in a controversial player like Kaepernick if they felt he could win some games for them.

by **NorthHawk** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 12:04 pm

The Offense that they ran yesterday plays to Kaepernick's strengths.
They didn't even talk to him.
That's all you need to know and actions speak louder than words.

by **RiverDog** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:00 pm

NorthHawk wrote:The Offense that they ran yesterday plays to Kaepernick's strengths.

Your opinion is in direct contrast to what Gruden has said. Do you think that he's in on the conspiracy to keep Kaepernick out? Are other head coaches also in on it? How many people can be in on this conspiracy and still keep it secret?

They didn't even talk to him.

Doesn't prove a thing. Why should they talk to him if they don't feel he'd fit their system?

by **HumanCockroach** » Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:38 pm

Insisting the actual plays run, don't show the offensive scheme because a coach said something is a bit of a reach. It's like saying Seattle ran more than passed the first two games because Carroll said they were going to.

I don't think it's a conspiracy, but claiming they ran a different offense than what was actually run because the coach said so, is way further than I would be willing to go.

North is right, the offense run actually plays to Kaepernicks strengths, and it should. Seeing how it was designed to play to Smith's strengths ( same as SF where both Smith and Kaepernick played in the same system not to mention Josh Johnson, the QB that replaced Sanchez).

This isn't a case of reworking an entire offense, this would be some minor tweaking. I don't doubt that Washington has valid reasons ( or at least valid to them), but offensive scheme doesn't feel, and more importantly, doesn't look to be even a minor blip in whatever reason that is.

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