Gam thread Sea and Minn

[trents]

Yes, the important thing is we won and will make it to post season but until and unless we clean some things up that won't last long.

I hope Germaine Ifedi is a better run blocker than a pass blocker as he had a couple of wiffs tonight. But hallelujah! I don't think he got called for one holding penalty. That also probably explains the wiffs.

When I read the rule it seems to be saying to me that any placing of the hands on the backs of teammates when clearing the line or shooting gaps is automatically considered to have been done for the purpose of gaining leverage and extra height. In other words, placing the hands on the backs of others defines what gaining leverage and height is. Apparently, a lot of experts also see it that way: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... 68d5e523f3

In an unrelated matter, George Fant has apparently been putting on the feed bucket. Up t o 322 lbs. now. Wasn't he like 250 lbs. when he was drafted?

[obiken]

For all the Nay Sayers, this game proved to me that Doug Baldwin is the 2nd most Valuable Player on this team's Offense.

[HumanCockroach]

Eh, isn't like the NFL is consistent on rules week to week, season to season or even play to play. I can't even count how many times a I've seen a ball hit an offensive player in the back this year, by definition, that's illegal touching, yet 2 seasons ago it was called regularly, this year I've seen it called 0 times... it is what it is, there's no "bad " press, and the NFL doesn't give two shakes about calls being uniform or correct. Controversy isn't a problem in the NFL. Expect more "Seattle got away with another one" crapola... we're the bad guys after all, and the NFL has been casting us as such for quite a while now.

[Anthony]

For all the Nay Sayers, this game proved to me that Doug Baldwin is the 2nd most Valuable Player on this team's Offense.

Perhaps, I just think the game plan was not very good tonight at all. I mean there was a few well drawn up plays that worked great, but way too many no one was open plays. or weird plays that essential cut off half the field. Of course, if Moore drags his toe, or does not drop a critical 3rd down pass, then we might be saying something different. This is the best Defense we have or probably will see. Top 5 in pass and run. I will agree this is a game it would have been nice to have Doug. I actually think the 2nd most valuable on offense is Carson, then Doug. We are 2-1 without Doug this year so tough to say. 1-1 without Carson so who knows, given how late of a scratch Doug was I wonder if they had to make late changes to the plan. Who knows we won, and hopefully that game is out of our offenses minds and we can get back to it.

[politicalfootball]

Hey , shout out to jshawaii you still posting at this hour ?

My favorite part of the game was Coleman running in that fumble recovery !

Go Hawks !!!

[RiverDog]

When I read the rule it seems to be saying to me that any placing of the hands on the backs of teammates when clearing the line or shooting gaps is automatically considered to have been done for the purpose of gaining leverage and extra height. In other words, placing the hands on the backs of others defines what gaining leverage and height is. Apparently, a lot of experts also see it that way: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... 68d5e523f3

The same thing happened a couple years ago in Arizona, and all the commentators said it was illegal and Bruce Arians went ballastic. But nevertheless, even after a discussion, the officials ruled just as they did last night, so it's apparent that incidental touching is allowed.

[NorthHawk]

He didn't seem to gain leverage to me in that he didn't get extra height.
I noticed that the DL stayed pretty low and his hands were more for balance than gaining a height advantage.
Nevertheless, the national narrative will be that it was a blown call and always will be.

[RiverDog]

He didn't seem to gain leverage to me in that he didn't get extra height.
I noticed that the DL stayed pretty low and his hands were more for balance than gaining a height advantage.
Nevertheless, the national narrative will be that it was a blown call and always will be.

Agreed. It was pretty clear that the contact did not propel him any higher. But I don't get why the talking heads are so confused about the rule. It's not like its the first time its ever happened.

[NorthHawk]

On a side note, I thought this thread was about the Cheerleaders legs...

[idhawkman]

Most boring game in NFL history

Only because your ignorance was brought out and put on display given your predictions for the rest of the year.

[idhawkman]

Yes, the important thing is we won and will make it to post season but until and unless we clean some things up that won't last long.

I hope Germaine Ifedi is a better run blocker than a pass blocker as he had a couple of wiffs tonight. But hallelujah! I don't think he got called for one holding penalty. That also probably explains the wiffs.

HA! That guy had such long arms Ifedi couldn't reach him to hold him. In all seriouslness, that guy is going to be a star in the league and I think they did a pretty good job on him.

When I read the rule it seems to be saying to me that any placing of the hands on the backs of teammates when clearing the line or shooting gaps is automatically considered to have been done for the purpose of gaining leverage and extra height. In other words, placing the hands on the backs of others defines what gaining leverage and height is. Apparently, a lot of experts also see it that way: https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... 68d5e523f3

In an unrelated matter, George Fant has apparently been putting on the feed bucket. Up t o 322 lbs. now. Wasn't he like 250 lbs. when he was drafted?

I think he tripped over that feed bucket on his catch...

[RiverDog]

On a side note, I thought this thread was about the Cheerleaders legs...

I watched the game at a friends house last night and wasn't able to comment real time. But it was interesting going back and reading some of Anthony's all too typical Russell excuses. Biggest bonehead play in Seahawks history = bad play call, holding onto the ball too long means that no one's open (how do we know that no one's open?), etc.

Hopefully Russell got that game out of his system. Our running game sure covers up a lot of warts and made up for an otherwise horrid offensive performance. Defense had its best game of the season, not allowing the Vikings to get past the 50 until well into the 3rd quarter, a couple of critical 4th down stands, and essentially pitching a shut out.

[c_hawkbob]

That game was a thing beauty! (when did defense become ugly?) It was seven points closer than it should have been for a couple quarters due to a bonehead play by Russ, but he still did his usual 4th quarter thing and got us into position to secure the win. But OHHH that DEFENSE!!

Nothing about that game give anything but optimism going forward, WE are the team no one wants to face this year!

[burrrton]

According to the rulebook, it is illegal for a player to place "a hand or hands on a teammate or opponent to gain additional height"

I know this has been covered, but:

1. It's a judgment call, and BW clearly didn't gain additional height- it was a correct (or at least highly defensible) no-call. If it was a matter of literally any touching being illegal, it would be reviewable.

2. They lost by 14 points- this wasn't what cost them the game unless you're an ESPN writer trying to come up with a thousand words explaining your "butterfly wings caused a hurricane" theory.

[RiverDog]

It makes you wonder if any of these people claiming that Wagner was using other players as leverage to gain height have ever seen the form used by a broad jumper as that's exactly what he looked like to me.

[Anthony]

I watched the game at a friends house last night and wasn't able to comment real time. But it was interesting going back and reading some of Anthony's all too typical Russell excuses. Biggest bonehead play in Seahawks history = bad play call, holding onto the ball too long means that no one's open (how do we know that no one's open?), etc.

Hopefully Russell got that game out of his system. Our running game sure covers up a lot of warts and made up for an otherwise horrid offensive performance. Defense had its best game of the season, not allowing the Vikings to get past the 50 until well into the 3rd quarter, a couple of critical 4th down stands, and essentially pitching a shut out.

did you even read what I said about that play let me help you "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play" hmm no excuse there at all just out and out saying bad play. see what reading gets you. hmm

[Anthony]

That game was a thing beauty! (when did defense become ugly?) It was seven points closer than it should have been for a couple quarters due to a bonehead play by Russ, but he still did his usual 4th quarter thing and got us into position to secure the win. But OHHH that DEFENSE!!

Nothing about that game give anything but optimism going forward, WE are the team no one wants to face this year!

All QB's have games like this, he had a QB rating in the 30s guess what Brees has had 5, Brady 3, Rodgers 3. What makes them and Wilson Elite is still being able to do what they must to get us the win.

[jshawaii22]

Hey , shout out to jshawaii you still posting at this hour ?

My favorite part of the game was Coleman running in that fumble recovery !

Go Hawks !!!

Even 3 hours behind most of you, we still need to get some sleep. Play of the day, just because it's a "Monday Night Special" with the Seahawks to have a controversial play, will, of course be Bobby using the 2 D Linemen as a pommel horse. Expect more rule changes based on this play.

[HumanCockroach]

It was stupid play call, but wilson made it worse

Here is your excuse. You simply aren't capable of saying "bad play be Wilson" without a caveat. You HAVE to provide an excuse, it simply MUST be done. You have done the same with airmailed TDs, horribly thrown interceptions, brain farted plays like the last two against GB at the end of the half.

Simply put, you are INCAPABLE of assigning blame or evaluating poor play by Wilson.

[RiverDog]

did you even read what I said about that play let me help you "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play" hmm no excuse there at all just out and out saying bad play. see what reading gets you. hmm

Anthony, I hate to burst your balloon, but I did not read all of your 50-60 some comments in the game thread. What I did was scroll back to the end of the 1st half to see what others said about that last play, IMO one of the biggest bonehead plays in our franchise history, and saw that the first words out of your mouth was "bad play call".

And not getting rid of it sooner wasn't the worst of it. He just aimlessly threw the ball up for grabs. He's lucky the Vikings didn't get a pick 6 on that play. Had that happened, it could have changed the complexion of the entire game.

[Anthony]

Anthony, I hate to burst your balloon, but I did not read all of your 50-60 some comments in the game thread. What I did was scroll back to the end of the 1st half to see what others said about that last play, IMO one of the biggest bonehead plays in our franchise history, and saw that the first words out of your mouth was "bad play call".

And not getting rid of it sooner wasn't the worst of it. He just aimlessly threw the ball up for grabs. He's lucky the Vikings didn't get a pick 6 on that play. Had that happened, it could have changed the complexion of the entire game.

Not reading my posts are on you, the fact that I made it clear it was a bad play, that would mean the whole thing was clear, but please ignore that so you can push your false narrative. Can you please show me the excuse in what I posted about that play? I will wait.

[Anthony]

Here is your excuse. You simply aren't capable of saying "bad play be Wilson" without a caveat. You HAVE to provide an excuse, it simply MUST be done. You have done the same with airmailed TDs, horribly thrown interceptions, brain farted plays like the last two against GB at the end of the half.

Simply put, you are INCAPABLE of assigning blame or evaluating poor play by Wilson.

Your an idiot once again here is what I said about the play, try reading next time "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play". That's it no caveat at all, I sad bad play said what he should have done, and again bad play. so you look even stupider than you are. Your hatred is showing through so sad.

[The POPE]

Anthony, I think very few people want to participate in the game threads. Your endless rubbish is similar to conversing with an idiot savant. Maybe we should just call you Rain Man. Shall you go to Kmart, or isn’t the people’s court on during the games to keep you occupied. I used to enjoy the game threads, now I skim over them as an afterthought. Since 95+% of the thread is Anthony telling Anthony how great Russell is..

Pope out

[Anthony]

Anthony, I think very few people want to participate in the game threads. Your endless rubbish is similar to conversing with an idiot savant. Maybe we should just call you Rain Man. Shall you go to Kmart, or isn’t the people’s court on during the games to keep you occupied. I used to enjoy the game threads, now I skim over them as an afterthought. Since 95+% of the thread is Anthony telling Anthony how great Russell is..

Pope out

Then don't read them, leave the forum. When you grow up and graduate kindergarten try coming back

[HumanCockroach]

Your an idiot once again here is what I said about the play, try reading next time "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play". That's it no caveat at all, I sad bad play said what he should have done, and again bad play. so you look even stupider than you are. Your hatred is showing through so sad

.

Those are YOUR words, there's an idiot in here, but I'm going to go ahead and say it's the guy staring back at you in the mirror everyday of your life. Not the people pointing out the moronic stupidity you feel you absolutely have to share, ..then forget you did.

That's a DIRECT quote from you fan boy. Clearly you either don't know what a caveat is ( ie bad play call) or you're just not bright enough to realize what it is you say....

That was a direct response BY YOU to Myck. If you were capable of doing what it is you're claiming I don't, you might actually realize how incredibly stupid that entire response was. I actually went light on Wilson, and didn't say much about it. If there's hatred coming through, it doesn't have anything to do with Wilson, as I harbor zero for the man. Unlike some ( since your so incredibly dense, I'll help you out here and let you know I mean YOU) I'm actually capable of evaluating play, good, bad, mediocre, and do not feel it necessary to gift excuses for any of them.

Of course, I personally don't have a fantasy about stealing any player from their spouses and marrying them. Maybe it's time for you to just give up on the whole Wilson leaves his beautiful wife, changes preference and you two live happily ever after fantasy. It ain't happening, and it ain't healthy.

[RiverDog]

Not reading my posts are on you, the fact that I made it clear it was a bad play, that would mean the whole thing was clear, but please ignore that so you can push your false narrative. Can you please show me the excuse in what I posted about that play? I will wait.

Anthony, I'm going to be as polite as I can in my remarks and ask you to be introspective. I have nothing against you. If you want people to read your comments, then you're going to have to start cleaning up the endless dribble in these game threads. Here's your first 3 posts from the game thread: "Here we go." "3rd down." "Delat of game yes." Game threads, like the forum itself, is supposed to be a venue for an expression and exchange of opinions, not for one person to talk to themselves. It's like you're interpreting for a deaf person that has no access to a TV.

The excuse you posted for "that play" was that it was a bad play call. You said that it was a "stupid play call, but wilson made it worse", indicating, at least to me, that you thought that the root cause of the outcome wasn't on Russell. The play selected had very little if anything to do with the resulting interception, the forfeiture of a near certain 3 points, and very well could have resulted in a 10 point swing.

It didn't matter what the play call was. It was doomed when Russell slipped and gave the defense a valuable second or two to close in on him. He should have fired that ball away as soon as he regained his balance, but he has this stubborn part of his ego that surfaces from time to time that says to him that he can get out of any situation and causes him to get extremely careless with the ball. A lot of times, more times than not, it works. But given the game situation, that was not the time or the place to be extending plays and looking for the big enchilada. Our defense was playing lights out, we already had the lead, we had a sure FG in our hip pocket, and we were going to get the ball first to start the 2nd half. He takes a sack or runs the clock down below 10 seconds and gets called for grounding, the half ends.

[Anthony]

Those are YOUR words, there's an idiot in here, but I'm going to go ahead and say it's the guy staring back at you in the mirror everyday of your life. Not the people pointing out the moronic stupidity you feel you absolutely have to share, ..then forget you did.

That's a DIRECT quote from you fan boy. Clearly you either don't know what a caveat is ( ie bad play call) or you're just not bright enough to realize what it is you say....

That was a direct response BY YOU to Myck. If you were capable of doing what it is you're claiming I don't, you might actually realize how incredibly stupid that entire response was. I actually went light on Wilson, and didn't say much about it. If there's hatred coming through, it doesn't have anything to do with Wilson, as I harbor zero for the man. Unlike some ( since your so incredibly dense, I'll help you out here and let you know I mean YOU) I'm actually capable of evaluating play, good, bad, mediocre, and do not feel it necessary to gift excuses for any of them.

Of course, I personally don't have a fantasy about stealing any player from their spouses and marrying them. Maybe it's time for you to just give up on the whole Wilson leaves his beautiful wife, changes preference and you two live happily ever after fantasy. It ain't happening, and it ain't healthy.

Okay, let me help you graduate to 1dt grade "Caveat definition is - a warning enjoining one from certain acts or practices." What I said was once again since you can't read "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play". So I said bad play, then specified what he should have done, then reiterated it was a bad play. So nice try go back to nursery school, your hatred is showing so sad.

[Anthony]

Anthony, I'm going to be as polite as I can in my remarks and ask you to be introspective. I have nothing against you. If you want people to read your comments, then you're going to have to start cleaning up the endless dribble in these game threads. Here's your first 3 posts from the game thread: "Here we go." "3rd down." "Delat of game yes." Game threads, like the forum itself, is supposed to be a venue for an expression and exchange of opinions, not for one person to talk to themselves. It's like you're interpreting for a deaf person that has no access to a TV.

The excuse you posted for "that play" was that it was a bad play call. You said that it was a "stupid play call, but wilson made it worse", indicating, at least to me, that you thought that the root cause of the outcome wasn't on Russell. The play selected had very little if anything to do with the resulting interception, the forfeiture of a near certain 3 points, and very well could have resulted in a 10 point swing.

It didn't matter what the play call was. It was doomed when Russell slipped and gave the defense a valuable second or two to close in on him. He should have fired that ball away as soon as he regained his balance, but he has this stubborn part of his ego that surfaces from time to time that says to him that he can get out of any situation and causes him to get extremely careless with the ball. A lot of times, more times than not, it works. But given the game situation, that was not the time or the place to be extending plays and looking for the big enchilada. Our defense was playing lights out, we already had the lead, we had a sure FG in our hip pocket, and we were going to get the ball first to start the 2nd half. He takes a sack or runs the clock down below 10 seconds and gets called for grounding, the half ends.

I did not say it was a bad play call by itself, I said once again at the time of the play "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play" no place in there did I say bad play call no place. Later on, I did say it was a bad play call, which it was, but I also said Wilson made it worse. So while you can try as hard as you can to nitpick your way to it, in the end, I first said bad play by Wilson and later even though I said it was a bad play call Wilson made it worse. So sorry I blamed Wilson as I always do when he makes mistakes. It being a bad play call does not absolve Wilson of making it worse which he did. And as I pointed out at the time of the play I made it clear Wilson messed up, so sorry dude try as you like to nitpick, and twist and turn to prove whatever y9ou want to prove you cant. So one more time for you to make it easy

my First response to that play "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play"

My later response "It was a stupid play call, but Wilson made it worse."

Nothing in either absolves Wilson of the mistake he made nothing. Heck your own boy Human whatever said: "I don't know, I think it's his refusal to give up on plays, there's a certain amount of " trying to make a play" that's acceptable from all special players, but it feels like he goes beyond that. Far to many intentional grounding, forward lateral, point sapping sacks. " that's an excuse he gave Wilson "I don't know, I think it's his refusal to give up on plays, there's a certain amount of " trying to make a play" that's acceptable from all special players" but then said it was unacceptable, Don't recall you saying anything to him huh? Nope, I made no excuses at all, I said he messed "Wow bad play by Wilson. Should have thrown it away sooner. Bad play" then later said "bad play call but Wilson made worse". I did not say because of the bad play call Wilson messed up, nope I made it clear he made it worse which means he messed up. So sorry your case has been dismissed due to no evidence at all.


As to my posting within the game thread Hmm Last I checked this was a forum were people get to post what they see, feel, and think and given no one else posted for over an hour after the game started, and in the game thread before that no one posted once the games started till over an hour into the game, I think I am safe. but thanks anyway

[politicalfootball]

Anthony you post a mean thread there but need more about the game. You don't know it but I was busy watching the game so never posted til now. So that is also why the lack of posting for most of the posters in here. Also fear of looking silly when the Seahawks lose (right ?) But that's not me and you we have confidence in the Seahawks franchise and always will for life. Some bozos just wait because not enough people are posting, or something else. Oh yeah I didn't post til now , so I guess I'm guilty too .

But I did see the game and I will comment on it . I liked best about the game was our defensive TD by Colman after his fumble recovery. Wow ! That's all I have to say about that.

Relax me and River are your fellow posters here on hawkshack. (Unlike HC I think he's got something against you) or a flame war , ya know. Sorta noticed. We can all agree on the Hawks though. Everyone who posts . Guests are fine. Even better if they become members, of course but they have no say.

Can't wait to see the Chiefs Chargers game on thursday it will have significant impact on the Seahawks game with KFC...er I mean KC lol. I don't hope for Maholms to be injured and whatever but Chargers Chiefs is a division game for them and there is bound to be injuries to starters. You understand just the wear and tear sort the ones like in every hard game.

Seahawks play with the miners an easy game and no injuries (knock on wood) (knocked on my head) lol.

My point is that KFC er I mean KC will be beat up by the Chargers but we won't be beat up, you see my position. My contention therefore is we will win vs KFC , afterall there not Minnesota.

[idhawkman]

That game was a thing beauty! (when did defense become ugly?) It was seven points closer than it should have been for a couple quarters due to a bonehead play by Russ, but he still did his usual 4th quarter thing and got us into position to secure the win. But OHHH that DEFENSE!!

Nothing about that game give anything but optimism going forward, WE are the team no one wants to face this year!

It reminds me of our 2012 team that lost to Atlanta in the post season. Back then our secondary wasn't quite as dominant as they became in 2013. Earl was fast and could cover the pass but wasn't quite as effecient in the run yet. Browner could be beat deep on the left side. Kam hadn't shook the heavens quite yet and Sherm hadn't went off on his tirade yet and teams still would throw at him.

I really like where this team is and yes, Russ had some of his typical early game bone head moves but that run with a slide in bounds was a thing of beauty. (I did notice that he didn't separate from Jonathan Joseph but instead just out lasted him - Russ has definitely slowed a bit.)

[idhawkman]

Can't wait to see the Chiefs Chargers game on thursday it will have significant impact on the Seahawks game with KFC...er I mean KC lol. I don't hope for Maholms to be injured and whatever but Chargers Chiefs is a division game for them and there is bound to be injuries to starters. You understand just the wear and tear sort the ones like in every hard game.

Seahawks play with the miners an easy game and no injuries (knock on wood) (knocked on my head) lol.

My point is that KFC er I mean KC will be beat up by the Chargers but we won't be beat up, you see my position. My contention therefore is we will win vs KFC , afterall there not Minnesota.

Since the Cheifs play on Thursday, they'll have 3 extra days to recover from their bruises. I'm hoping for an outstanding game so we can rest our starters with any kind of mild injury for the Cards game going into the post season.

[Anthony]

Anthony you post a mean thread there but need more about the game. You don't know it but I was busy watching the game so never posted til now. So that is also why the lack of posting for most of the posters in here. Also fear of looking silly when the Seahawks lose (right ?) But that's not me and you we have confidence in the Seahawks franchise and always will for life. Some bozos just wait because not enough people are posting, or something else. Oh yeah I didn't post til now , so I guess I'm guilty too .

But I did see the game and I will comment on it . I liked best about the game was our defensive TD by Colman after his fumble recovery. Wow ! That's all I have to say about that.

Relax me and River are your fellow posters here on hawkshack. (Unlike HC I think he's got something against you) or a flame war , ya know. Sorta noticed. We can all agree on the Hawks though. Everyone who posts . Guests are fine. Even better if they become members, of course but they have no say.

Can't wait to see the Chiefs Chargers game on thursday it will have significant impact on the Seahawks game with KFC...er I mean KC lol. I don't hope for Maholms to be injured and whatever but Chargers Chiefs is a division game for them and there is bound to be injuries to starters. You understand just the wear and tear sort the ones like in every hard game.

Seahawks play with the miners an easy game and no injuries (knock on wood) (knocked on my head) lol.

My point is that KFC er I mean KC will be beat up by the Chargers but we won't be beat up, you see my position. My contention therefore is we will win vs KFC , afterall there not Minnesota.

Great post, I also think we can beat KFC, the weird part will be they may not even have anything to play for at that point

[HumanCockroach]

ca·ve·at
/ˈkavēˌat,ˈkävēˌät/Submit
noun
a warning or proviso of specific stipulations, conditions, or limitations

There's more than single definition for most words big guy. Nice try though.

Smh.

And yeah I got something against Anthony, look through the board, or simply this thread to understand what.

[Anthony]

ca·ve·at
/ˈkavēˌat,ˈkävēˌät/Submit
noun
a warning or proviso of specific stipulations, conditions, or limitations

There's more than single definition for most words big guy. Nice try though.

Smh.

And yeah I got something against Anthony, look through the board, or simply this thread to understand what.

Ahh I guess my 3rd olive branch has been ignored as you continue to stoke the future with your ignorance. I hope he and others do go back and look they will see you start all this, with your name calling, you talking out the side of your mouth, you double standards and your cursing all of which started this. YOU did not respond to logic or well-mannered talk, and you did not respond when I spoke at your level.

[burrrton]

Wanted to add something. I was at the game and am only now rewatching. Anthony will like this.

That horrible INT at the end of the first half (and it was *horrible*)? The announcers were still going crazy when Russell had already put it in his rearview mirror (watch him as he's walking off the field).

That kid is something else in that regard.

[Anthony]

Wanted to add something. I was at the game and am only now rewatching. Anthony will like this.

That horrible INT at the end of the first half (and it was *horrible*)? The announcers were still going crazy when Russell had already put it in his rearview mirror (watch him as he's walking off the field).

That kid is something else in that regard.

Yup, "You can't live with fear or regret and still give it 100%," I think a Short memory is mandatory for any QB and the ones that do it the best are the Elite ones, they find a way to rise above it and make the play or plays needed to win more often than not..

[HumanCockroach]

Whatever.... if people want to believe that rubbish, they welcome to it. Your "olive branches " involve calling me an idiot, dimwit, or some other bunk. I really don't care if you believe what you are saying is true, much less if somebody else does. I'm ok knowing more about the sport in my little finger then you will learn in your lifetime, and with being capable of evaluating play of the players I choose to watch and study, whether they be a "favorite" of mine or not.

Kam Chancellor is by FAR my favorite recent player, and yet I've stated emphatically , repeatedly on this board how mediocre his coverage skills were.... there's the difference. I don't feel the need to hide behind anything because of my favoritism, I simply evaluate the play, make an honest evaluation, and discuss it. I appreciate ALL players for the good ( as I did in this very thread in regards to Wilson) while acknowledging the bad. No player is perfect, none of them.

Have you ever even contemplated that fans like you actually push MORE people away from your favorite player, make them MORE critical because of your constant excuses, and cherry picked stats? In essence, people dislike YOU so much, it tarnishes a truly great player. I doubt it, you simply aren't intelligent enough to think that critically.

You ( and those unable to see the mistakes) create an environment that makes many, not just those outside of Seattle, view a truly excellent football player, as overrated.