Penalties

[RiverDog]

Yesterday's game was a fiasco, with 14 of them being called on us for a mind boggling 148 yards. The two teams combined had 22 accepted penalties for 214 yards. To put it in perspective, penalty yardage was equivalent to 29% of the total offense of both teams combined.

I've heard people complain about penalties more so this season than in years past, and it's caused me to wonder: Are there more penalties being called this season? What about a decade ago? 25 years ago?

Here's a good, sortable site that tracks penalties. You'll note that we currently rank 3rd in the league, which is about par for a Pete Carroll-coached team:

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

If I get bored, I might go back and do some homework and see if our impressions have any validity or not.

As a side note, Walter Jones got called for just 8 holding penalties in his entire career. He had more Pro Bowl appearances than holding penalties.

[Anthony]

Yesterday's game was a fiasco, with 14 of them being called on us for a mind boggling 148 yards. The two teams combined had 22 accepted penalties for 214 yards. To put it in perspective, penalty yardage was equivalent to 29% of the total offense of both teams combined.

I've heard people complain about penalties more so this season than in years past, and it's caused me to wonder: Are there more penalties being called this season? What about a decade ago? 25 years ago?

Here's a good, sortable site that tracks penalties. You'll note that we currently rank 3rd in the league, which is about par for a Pete Carroll-coached team:

http://www.nflpenalties.com/

If I get bored, I might go back and do some homework and see if our impressions have any validity or not.

As a side note, Walter Jones got called for just 8 holding penalties in his entire career. He had more Pro Bowl appearances than holding penalties.

Great post, what makes these penalties worse is a lot were on the oline and it cost us the game.

This one amongst the worse. no penalty and we are at the 48. and need just 10 yards for FG and game

3rd & 4 at SEA 20
(8:26 - OT) (Shotgun) R.Wilson pass deep right to J.McKissic to SF 48 for 32 yards (E.Lee). PENALTY on SEA-E.Pocic, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 20 - No Play.

and then this one again FG rrange

1st & 10 at SEA 43
(0:54 - 4th) (Shotgun) M.Davis right tackle to SF 38 for 19 yards (E.Lee; M.Harris). PENALTY on SEA-E.Pocic, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at SEA 43 - No Play.

BOth on Pocic the new infedie

[Uppercut]

It appears KC is #1 and Sea # 3, guess the refs will be bringing a large bag of flags next Sunday

[RiverDog]

Great post, what makes these penalties worse is a lot were on the oline and it cost us the game.

Although I agree with you in that penalties were the leading cause of our loss yesterday, the fact that most occurred on the OL should not be surprising.

The OL is always going to have more penalties called on them than other position groupings. First of all, there are more offensive linemen (5) than any other position group. Secondly, unlike a wide receiver that may go an entire series without making any physical contact with the opposition, an offensive lineman makes contact on almost every play. More contact puts them at a higher risk of getting called for holding, hands to the face, and so on.

Take a look at the link I posted. Defensive back is the only position grouping that's even close to the OL in terms of number of flags drawn.

[Anthony]

Although I agree with you in that penalties were the leading cause of our loss yesterday, the fact that most occurred on the OL should not be surprising.

The OL is always going to have more penalties called on them than other position groupings. First of all, there are more offensive linemen (5) than any other position group. Secondly, unlike a wide receiver that may go an entire series without making any physical contact with the opposition, an offensive lineman makes contact on almost every play. More contact puts them at a higher risk of getting called for holding, hands to the face, and so on.

Take a look at the link I posted. Defensive back is the only position grouping that's even close to the OL in terms of number of flags drawn.

I agree with you my point was and is this has been an ongoing thing with our olines for years, and other lines don't get near as many calls on them as ours. Also has was shown during the game a lot of them are not needed.

[RiverDog]

I agree with you my point was and is this has been an ongoing thing with our olines for years, and other lines don't get near as many calls on them as ours. Also has was shown during the game a lot of them are not needed.

That's true, and was one of the biggest raps on Tom Cable.

But our penalty problem goes deeper than just the offensive line. Yesterday, for example, our defense had more penalties called on them (7) than did our offense (5), and in years past, Michael Bennett has been a flag magnet.

Yesterday, half of our penalties came in the 4th quarter and overtime. It truly was the biggest factor in the outcome of the game.

[Anthony]

That's true, and was one of the biggest raps on Tom Cable.

But our penalty problem goes deeper than just the offensive line. Yesterday, for example, our defense had more penalties called on them (7) than did our offense (5), and in years past, Michael Bennett has been a flag magnet.

Yesterday, half of our penalties came in the 4th quarter and overtime. It truly was the biggest factor in the outcome of the game.

I totally agree penalties were the biggest factor in the game.

[Hawktawk]

Seattle had a large number of what could be called” ticky tack” fouls . The 9’ers didn’t . It’s bullshit . Let’s play football . The officials are wrecking the game .

[RiverDog]

Seattle had a large number of what could be called” ticky tack” fouls . The 9’ers didn’t . It’s bullshit . Let’s play football . The officials are wrecking the game .

I guess my biggest problem in general with the penalties is that they were calling them close in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. If they want to establish their authority and keep the game under control, then fine, but do it in the first half. 7 penalties on one team in the 4th quarter/OT is outrageous.

[RiverDog]

Here's some more on the penalty issues that cost us the game last Sunday. Pete, Russell, ADB, weigh in. At least they aren't complaining about the calls and making excuses:

https://www.seahawks.com/news/seahawks- ... KSljMrvLXM

Pete pretty much confirms what I had been saying about our offense: That there wasn't a problem with the play calling:

“This was really a clear game where we hurt ourselves so much with this penalty thing that it took our chances away,” Seahawks coach Pete Carroll said. “We ran the football, we converted on third down, we held them on third down, time of possession, so many things—we were plus in the turnover ratio—that’s how we play, but really uncharacteristically, we had 148 yards in penalties, and 10 (penalties) in the second half, which is just crazy, I don’t know how that could happen."

"All of the numbers match up to how we play—the running numbers, the third down numbers were the best we’ve had in quite a while, the defense kept the numbers down, played really well in the second half, so we did a lot of really good things like we normally do. Two of the last three weeks we’ve had four penalties, so 14 today for 148 yards, it’s just really hard to overcome that, and we weren’t able to in a close game.”

So Anthony, please let go of this play calling mantra of yours. It wasn't an issue.

[politicalfootball]

Offensive holding , false starts those are the main reasons Seattle got penalties.

I notice that tripping among other things for this franchise was not called even once.

G0 Hawks !!!!!!

[idhawkman]

I guess my biggest problem in general with the penalties is that they were calling them close in the 4th quarter when the game was on the line. If they want to establish their authority and keep the game under control, then fine, but do it in the first half. 7 penalties on one team in the 4th quarter/OT is outrageous.

Pete kinda got out coached on the penalties part. Supposedly, the 9ers coach sent a video with "holds" on our oline to the league after the first matchup with them. So you could view it as outcoaching Pete or you can view it as the League letting a coach job them. Either way, the calls were a result of their coach cherry picking plays from two weeks earlier and using it to his advantage. I think if he does this more often, the league will grow tired of it very quickly.

Chock this one up to they got us this time....

[Hawktawk]

I’ll give the NBA credit as the pro league that gets it closest to right . Other than the extra foul shots for stars they really seem to want to let the players decide the game.
In football it’s said that holding can be called every play. Frankly I think that’s offense and defense anymore as well as pass interference.

Note to zebras. If it’s a “ticky tack” foul swallow the whistle. Keep your hand off the flag. Some say call it even. I agree. Call blatant fouls and let world class athletes play. No exceptions . I swear some of these guys are gambling secretly with the calls I see sometimes.

[idhawkman]

I won't go as far as to say they are gambling but I used to be able to tell you who would win an NBA game with 10 min left in the game. Refs would only call fouls on one side.

In the NFL, it cost us a SuperBowl when they called fouls they didn't actually see but deducted what happened. The NFL players are getting better and better at acting and I think the refs should go back to only calling fouls that they ACTUALLY SEE. Also, fouls away from the play should be watched but not called every time. E.g. a running play to the left should not have the DB on the other side being called for illegal contact or holding on the other side of the play and away from the play. just my .02 worth.

[Hawktawk]

I won't go as far as to say they are gambling but I used to be able to tell you who would win an NBA game with 10 min left in the game. Refs would only call fouls on one side.

In the NFL, it cost us a SuperBowl when they called fouls they didn't actually see but deducted what happened. The NFL players are getting better and better at acting and I think the refs should go back to only calling fouls that they ACTUALLY SEE. Also, fouls away from the play should be watched but not called every time. E.g. a running play to the left should not have the DB on the other side being called for illegal contact or holding on the other side of the play and away from the play. just my .02 worth.

Agreed. That goes for fouls that might occur when the play is long gone. Ive seen ticky tack calls 25 yards or more away from the play. The SF game reminded me of XL in the 4th quarter there were so many questionable calls all on huge plays on both sides of the ball on Seattle and virtually none on a 3-11 team in that time frame. Of course XL will always be the gold standard which has shaped my paranoid mindset regarding officiating ever since .

[idhawkman]

Agreed. That goes for fouls that might occur when the play is long gone. Ive seen ticky tack calls 25 yards or more away from the play. The SF game reminded me of XL in the 4th quarter there were so many questionable calls all on huge plays on both sides of the ball on Seattle and virtually none on a 3-11 team in that time frame. Of course XL will always be the gold standard which has shaped my paranoid mindset regarding officiating ever since .

One thing I keep in the back of my mind is that this whole industry is built on "entertainment". No NFL game is entertaining and people will tune out if the score is lopsided or the dominant team is real far ahead. To keep games in check I sometimes see the refs "insert" themselves to keep the game close. (Critical third down play, etc). If ever confirmed the suspicions that many of us have the NFL will see a collapse bigger than what the WWE went through.

[RiverDog]

Agreed. That goes for fouls that might occur when the play is long gone. Ive seen ticky tack calls 25 yards or more away from the play. The SF game reminded me of XL in the 4th quarter there were so many questionable calls all on huge plays on both sides of the ball on Seattle and virtually none on a 3-11 team in that time frame. Of course XL will always be the gold standard which has shaped my paranoid mindset regarding officiating ever since .

One thing I keep in the back of my mind is that this whole industry is built on "entertainment". No NFL game is entertaining and people will tune out if the score is lopsided or the dominant team is real far ahead. To keep games in check I sometimes see the refs "insert" themselves to keep the game close. (Critical third down play, etc). If ever confirmed the suspicions that many of us have the NFL will see a collapse bigger than what the WWE went through.

I've never been a conspiracy theorist (sorry, Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone), so I'm not subscribing to your hypothesis for the very reason you mention in your last paragraph: If that were happening, it would absouletly destroy the sport should it become known. Additionally, it would be nearly impossible to keep something like that secret.

[Oly]

Also, fouls away from the play should be watched but not called every time. E.g. a running play to the left should not have the DB on the other side being called for illegal contact or holding on the other side of the play and away from the play. just my .02 worth.

I absolutely agree with this....but to play devil's advocate, doing so means that the league has make it clear to the refs that they are okay with them using their discretion in calling fouls, and that makes me nervous. We've seen how bad they refs are at using their judgement in making calls, and so I don't know how much we should trust them to determine what is "away from the play."

Again, I'm 100% in favor of the principle, but it still requires a ref to make a judgement call. Are we okay with that?

[Rambo2014]

if you can't do the time!

Don't do the crime!

Solid advice

[idhawkman]

if you can't do the time!

Don't do the crime!

Solid advice

LOL, time is what you are short of... Tick tock, tick Tock, your playoff run is out of clock....