Black Monday

[RiverDog]

There's been two coaches fired during the regular season, Hue Jackson with the Browns and Mike McCarthy with the Packers. But who else? Is the Redskins Jay Gruden in trouble? What about Marvin Lewis, the 2nd most tenured HC? Todd Bowles? Adam Gase? Jags owner announced that Doug Marrone will be back.

Or how about some bigger names, a couple that have taken their teams to the SB, like Ron Rivera or Dan Quinn?

And there's been some whispers about a Lombardi winning coach, Mike Tomlin at Pittsburg. Would Jerry Jones fire Jason Garrett if the Cowboys are one and done?

[Agent 86]

Bowles and Koetter got the axe this afternoon.

[trents]

I've always wondered Lewis and Garrett have been retained for so long. Two teams that have been perennial underachievers for a long time now.

[idhawkman]

There goes Gase and Lewis. Miami and Cincy.

[NorthHawk]

Vance Joseph in Denver is gone as well as Steve Wilks in Arizona according to PFT.

[RiverDog]

Vance Joseph in Denver is gone as well as Steve Wilks in Arizona according to PFT.

Lewis should have been gone 5 years ago. I remember Kalibane defending him and couldn't understand why.

Joseph got just two years but they were the first back-to-back losing seasons in...how long? Big expectations. And Wilks had just one season.

I'm wondering about Doug Marrone. He clearly lost that Jacksonville team. But the team owner said he's keeping him.

[politicalfootball]

This is an old thread. Full of opinion. Breaking news is from the morning that it happened.

[idhawkman]

Joseph got just two years but they were the first back-to-back losing seasons in...how long? Big expectations. And Wilks had just one season.

I'm wondering about Doug Marrone. He clearly lost that Jacksonville team. But the team owner said he's keeping him.

Wilkes surprises me especially after the injuries he had to go through with the team and the changeover that was in the works. I think they commented yesterday on how the OC was still calling Arian's complicated offense and not his own.

I think Marrone is benefiting on Coughlin's influence. Tom Coughlin has proven to be a winner and if he thinks that Marrone has what it takes then they chalk this year up to cleaning house and come out stronger next year. Its not like Coughlin hadn't done it before when he first went to NY.

[c_hawkbob]

This is an old thread. Full of opinion. Breaking news is from the morning that it happened.

Huh?

[RiverDog]

Joseph got just two years but they were the first back-to-back losing seasons in...how long? Big expectations. And Wilks had just one season.

I'm wondering about Doug Marrone. He clearly lost that Jacksonville team. But the team owner said he's keeping him.

Wilkes surprises me especially after the injuries he had to go through with the team and the changeover that was in the works. I think they commented yesterday on how the OC was still calling Arian's complicated offense and not his own.

I'm wondering if Rosen either directly or indirectly influenced this decision. He's had a tough rookie season, with a poor completion percentage and throwing more INT's than TD, never a good sign. He arguably cost them yesterday's game with a bonehead play when he screwed the Cards out of 3 points by taking a sack with 11 seconds. The guy is just plain not ready for Prime Time, and they may feel that they need to get a coaching staff in there to do a better job of grooming him.

I think Marrone is benefiting on Coughlin's influence. Tom Coughlin has proven to be a winner and if he thinks that Marrone has what it takes then they chalk this year up to cleaning house and come out stronger next year. Its not like Coughlin hadn't done it before when he first went to NY.

Good point. I had forgotten about Coughlin. The man has received a number of reprieves during his own coaching career. Perhaps that accounts for the tolerance. But the team has definetly under performed and isn't playing for him, reminded me of the 2009 Hawks.

[Agent 86]

Marvin Lewis has been let go as well. Here is the updated list from in season to today:

Jackson(Browns)
McCarthy(Packers)
Koetter(Bucs)
Bowles(Jets)
Joseph(Broncos)
Wilks(Cardinals)
Gase(Dolphins)
Lewis(Bengals)

As well, it sounds like Mike Mayock will be hired as the Raiders new GM for the fired Reggie McKenzie.

[RiverDog]

Marvin Lewis has been let go as well. Here is the updated list from in season to today:

Jackson(Browns)
McCarthy(Packers)
Koetter(Bucs)
Bowles(Jets)
Joseph(Broncos)
Wilks(Cardinals)
Gase(Dolphins)
Lewis(Bengals)

As well, it sounds like Mike Mayock will be hired as the Raiders new GM for the fired Reggie McKenzie.

That makes 8 coaches, or 25% of the entire league. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the NFL has the higest turnover ratio for head coaches than any other major league sport.

[obiken]

I think Wilks was a good coach, the Cards never quit yesterday. I think its a mistake.

[Hawktawk]

I think Wilks was a good coach, the Cards never quit yesterday. I think its a mistake.

I agree. He was hired with the team knowing he would change the D to a 4-3. The GM was suspended 5 games for a DUI. The Bradford signing was a disaster as has been the last 3 drafts. Rosen is a dork, looking like a bust, horrrible. Still that team never quit as evidenced yesterday and a few weeks ago winning in lambeau and getting McCarthy fired. Bush league move by a GM who should be cleaning out his office instead. Of course I felt the same when mora got one and done and that worked out pretty well but the hawks aren’t owned by a bidwell either.

[RiverDog]

I think Wilks was a good coach, the Cards never quit yesterday. I think its a mistake.

Yea, but their W/L was 3-13, the worst in the league. It's likely that they've had another coach in mind for the past several weeks.

How much you want to bet that the Cards make a run at Mike McCarthy?

[Uppercut]

Wonder if the tire kickers will be looking at Shotty and Norton

[RiverDog]

Wonder if the tire kickers will be looking at Shotty and Norton

Pete does a great job at coaching players to perform to their full potential, but he hasn't had nearly as much success with the coaches he's mentored.

[Hawktawk]

Shotties really rehabilitated his resume. I hope he sticks around. He would possibly be the guy who replaces Pete in a few years.

As for Pete's proteges Quinn has done a pretty good job and would have a lombardi if wonderboy Shanahan had not forgot to run the ball with a 25 point lead. Richard has been mentioned as a dark horse HC candidate already. Not the Walsh tree but even a great coach like Billacheat hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his subordinates. McDaniels might get another look this year.

[idhawkman]

Good point. I had forgotten about Coughlin. The man has received a number of reprieves during his own coaching career. Perhaps that accounts for the tolerance. But the team has definetly under performed and isn't playing for him, reminded me of the 2009 Hawks.

I wonder if the team has abandoned him at the behest of Coughlin though. E.g. if Coughlin can control Marrone to do what he wants done then he won't hold him as accountable for the results. Just my opinion though. We'll see what happens if they repeat this year next year though.

[trents]

This is interesting: http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2565 ... ldon-drama

They should have fired the two backs instead.

[trents]

Shotties really rehabilitated his resume. I hope he sticks around. He would possibly be the guy who replaces Pete in a few years.

As for Pete's proteges Quinn has done a pretty good job and would have a lombardi if wonderboy Shanahan had not forgot to run the ball with a 25 point lead. Richard has been mentioned as a dark horse HC candidate already. Not the Walsh tree but even a great coach like Billacheat hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his subordinates. McDaniels might get another look this year.

Pete's success hinges on his personality as a motivator. Something you can't really coach. You either got it or you don't.

[RiverDog]

Pete's success hinges on his personality as a motivator. Something you can't really coach. You either got it or you don't.

There's more to it than that. For one, Pete has an eye for defensive talent. He knows the types of players that will succeed in his system. But like you said about being a motivator, that's something that can be pretty difficult to teach.

[Hawktawk]

Pete's success hinges on his personality as a motivator. Something you can't really coach. You either got it or you don't

There's more to it than that. For one, Pete has an eye for defensive talent. He knows the types of players that will succeed in his system. But like you said about being a motivator, that's something that can be pretty difficult to teach.

Exactly RD. Carroll’s a hell of a talent evaluator and knows the type of body and mind he wants particularly on defense . He’s a hell of a coach and motivator too. If it weren’t for some of his “hormonal “ self described moments he would be flawless. Leaving bush off the field on 4th and 2 vs texas. Passing up field goal attempts to go on 4th down vs Atlanta in 2012 then of course the play in 49 that he surely had to sign off on. Still
I think he’s got a HOF type resume already.

[RiverDog]

He wasn't a head coach, but as expected, the Falcons parted ways with Offensive Coordinator Steve "Cutty Sark" Sarkisian, along with several others on Dan Quinn's coaching staff.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 450807002/

[RiverDog]

...I think he’s (Pete Carroll) got a HOF type resume already.

Not quite. He's going to need at least one more Lombardi. Heck, even Tom Coughlin has two, and no one's talking HOF for him. Keep in mind that prior to the Hawks job, Pete's NFL resume was pretty thin.

But I'll say this: Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, this year is Pete's finest single year of coaching.

[Aseahawkfan]

Not quite. He's going to need at least one more Lombardi. Heck, even Tom Coughlin has two, and no one's talking HOF for him. Keep in mind that prior to the Hawks job, Pete's NFL resume was pretty thin.

But I'll say this: Regardless of how we do in the playoffs, this year is Pete's finest single year of coaching.

No way. Super Bowl 2013 is his finest year of coaching. We smoked one of the highest rated offenses in history. Not just beat them, but blew them out of the water no contest. Almost had a shut out against Peyton Manning in his best statistical year for TDs. Our defense was legendary that year.

[RiverDog]

No way. Super Bowl 2013 is his finest year of coaching. We smoked one of the highest rated offenses in history. Not just beat them, but blew them out of the water no contest. Almost had a shut out against Peyton Manning in his best statistical year for TDs. Our defense was legendary that year.

2013 was the culmination of 4 years of rebuilding. The roster was loaded, with at least 3 potential HOF'ers on defense, and that's not counting guys like Chancellor, Bennett, and Avril, all Pro Bowl quality. Plus we had Beast busting up defenses and Russell's run/pass threat to defend. Line up the 2013 offense against the 2018 squad, and I'm willing to bet that there wouldn't be more than two or three starters from 2018 that could break into the starting lineup on the 2013 squad (less Russell, Wags, Baldwin, and KJ of course).

This season, Pete not only was less 5 HOF/Pro Bowl players on defense alone, he was minus his entire coaching staff. He took what was an under performing OL and turned them into one of the best OL's in the league. IMO we have a clear shot at the SB, and that's coming from the eternal pessimist in the forum.

Actually it's an apples vs. oranges comparison. 2013 was the best team he's produced, having taken 4 years to get there, but 2018 is the best single season job of coaching he's done.

[Aseahawkfan]

2013 was the culmination of 4 years of rebuilding. The roster was loaded, with at least 3 potential HOF'ers on defense, and that's not counting guys like Chancellor, Bennett, and Avril, all Pro Bowl quality. Plus we had Beast busting up defenses and Russell's run/pass threat to defend. Line up the 2013 offense against the 2018 squad, and I'm willing to bet that there wouldn't be more than two or three starters from 2018 that could break into the starting lineup on the 2013 squad (less Russell, Wags, Baldwin, and KJ of course).

This season, Pete not only was less 5 HOF/Pro Bowl players on defense alone, he was minus his entire coaching staff. He took what was an under performing OL and turned them into one of the best OL's in the league. IMO we have a clear shot at the SB, and that's coming from the eternal pessimist in the forum.

Actually it's an apples vs. oranges comparison. 2013 was the best team he's produced, having taken 4 years to get there, but 2018 is the best single season job of coaching he's done.

Super Bowl season was his best year of coaching. He outcoached thoroughly one of the best QBs in history in the biggest game of the year in one of that Hall of Fame QBs best years. He made him look like a rank amateur. That was his best season of coaching. It will be the crowning jewel of his coaching career if he retires with no more Lombardi's.

The roster was loaded because he loaded them and coached them up. He coached that Hall of Fame defense to their greatest feat. He made the vast majority of right decisions. He matched our best record. He set a franchise record for points allowed in a season for the Seahawks. It was the best team he put together during his best coaching year that will forever be remembered by Seahawks fan as the bar for football greatness in Seattle. Anyone who matches that year including Pete has had their best year in nearly all areas.

I see this year as a good coaching job in a weak year. Teams were weak in the NFL this year. There are almost no clear favorites with no weaknesses. No one is super dominant. No one looks like the bull. He got us to 10-6 with a lot of games that shouldn't even have been a contest for a truly good team. The only playoff teams we beat this year were Kansas City and Dallas. I'm not that impressed this year. We have some very unimpressive losses. We have a record not far outside what was expected save by the most pessimistic fans.

So we'll have to agree to disagree. Pete hit it out of the park in 2013 and almost followed it up with another year of greatness missed by the narrowest of margins due to a key mistake by him and the coaching staff. This year was a good coaching job, but hardly great. Great would have been not losing to weak teams like Denver and San Francisco. I don't see us having a legitimate Super Bowl shot. I see this as a positive step forward in the rebuild. We aren't going to beat any of the real contenders on the road.

[RiverDog]

So we'll have to agree to disagree.

There's good arguments for both sides of the debate. The biggest reason I'm so impressed by Pete's job this year is that he did what I didn't think he could do, ie clean house of his sub par coaching staff and got rid of guys like Sherman and Bennett who had outlived their usefulness. He could have fallen into the trap of "if only our kicker had made three kicks.... and rationalized our mediocrity, but he realized that the team was adrift and resolved to do something about it. I didn't think he had the balls to do it, but I was wrong.

[politicalfootball]

Shotties really rehabilitated his resume. I hope he sticks around. He would possibly be the guy who replaces Pete in a few years.

As for Pete's proteges Quinn has done a pretty good job and would have a lombardi if wonderboy Shanahan had not forgot to run the ball with a 25 point lead. Richard has been mentioned as a dark horse HC candidate already. Not the Walsh tree but even a great coach like Billacheat hasn't exactly lit the world on fire with his subordinates. McDaniels might get another look this year.

Yeah Pete Carroll is the oldest coach in the league so can't last forever. I think Shottnmire would be a good transition coach.