Hawk vs Boys game thread

[Anthony]

Like i said this is why you dont wait this long to let loose.

[Anthony]

They rusher only 4 and still did not have.much timw to throw

[trents]

Cowboys now have great field position.

[jshawaii22]

So the refs finally got that call from their bosses at NFL HQ to give the 'Boys the game. No calls at all for 3 quarters and now, one after the other..... all against the Hawks.

[Anthony]

If we loose it will be offensive play calling

[trents]

So the refs finally got that call from their bosses at NFL HQ to give the 'Boys the game. No calls at all for 3 quarters and now, one after the other..... all against the Hawks.

What call are you talking about? I think the refs did an excellent job tonight. I only saw one call that was clearly missed and that was the face mask one they didn't see back in the first quarter.

[Anthony]

Refs did not cost us thr game. Playcalling and design did.

[Anthony]

Wow if only we had more time. Like maybe make the changes at half time.

[Anthony]

And because of this people will say this bs offense works.

[c_hawkbob]

that's game ... Oh well, it's the first time we've made the playoffs and not won at least the first game. Next year we take this first weekend off.

[trents]

Well, the Cowboys deserved to win. They played better than the Hawks in every phase of the game tonight.

This will happen again and again unless our offensive becomes less predictable and more flexible. You can't just do one thing well and expect to win in post season. The good teams will take that one thing away.

[politicalfootball]

that's game ... Oh well, it's the first time we've made the playoffs and not won at least the first game. Next year we take this first weekend off.

I hear ya we will be much better next year. I just don't understand why we didn't try a bleeding kick instead of a drop kick.

[Anthony]

Well, the Cowboys deserved to win. They played better than the Hawks in every phase of the game tonight.

This will happen again and again unless our offensive becomes less predictable and more flexible. You can't just do one thing well and expect to win in post season. The good teams will take that one thing away.

Well, to be honest, Good teams that have that one thing is taken away, move on to another, we just kept doing it until it was too late. This is the problem with PCs whole philosophy. It leaves no room for error and always relies on our QB having to do something miraculous at the end. But because we won 1 SB and almost a 2nd people will just keep overlooking the fact that those 2 were the anomaly, not the norm. EH came in knowing the players getting ready to enter the draft, knew who to pick. GOt a #1 defense, then a beast, but still needed that Magic Qb. He got that and won, then almost won another. Problem is he does not have the top defense, teams have had 7 years to figure it out. They now know he as long as they keep running first no worries, if and when they start mixing it up and letting the magic man actually play we got problems, but PCs ego seems to get in the way. He waited too long to Let Wilson loose. I predict we will not win another SB while PC is heard, and we might lose Wilson because of it. Hard to justify 28+ mil when your own HC refuses to use him right. Thankfully while I have been saying it for awhile others are starting to catch on. And before someone says well we win more than we lose, yeah but not because of PC because our QB gets let loose and make magic. I guarantee the answer will be we almost had them we just needed more time. Loosing by one score only validates his style, which I believe may work fine in the regular season to the tune of 7-10 wins as long as we have Wilson, but int the playoffs, will not work because of his refusal to change when it is taken away.

[Aseahawkfan]

Well, to be honest, Good teams that have that one thing is taken away, move on to another, we just kept doing it until it was too late. This is the problem with PCs whole philosophy. It leaves no room for error and always relies on our QB having to do something miraculous at the end. But because we won 1 SB and almost a 2nd people will just keep overlooking the fact that those 2 were the anomaly, not the norm. EH came in knowing the players getting ready to enter the draft, knew who to pick. GOt a #1 defense, then a beast, but still needed that Magic Qb. He got that and won, then almost won another. Problem is he does not have the top defense, teams have had 7 years to figure it out. They now know he as long as they keep running first no worries, if and when they start mixing it up and letting the magic man actually play we got problems, but PCs ego seems to get in the way. He waited too long to Let Wilson loose. I predict we will not win another SB while PC is heard, and we might lose Wilson because of it. Hard to justify 28+ mil when your own HC refuses to use him right. Thankfully while I have been saying it for awhile others are starting to catch on. And before someone says well we win more than we lose, yeah but not because of PC because our QB gets let loose and make magic. I guarantee the answer will be we almost had them we just needed more time. Loosing by one score only validates his style, which I believe may work fine in the regular season to the tune of 7-10 wins as long as we have Wilson, but int the playoffs, will not work because of his refusal to change when it is taken away.

What teams are doing better besides New England? So if Pete's philosophy is the problem, then who besides Belichick has the right philosophy since none of them have done as well? Most teams do rely on their QB to do something spectacular.

There's this strange idea among fans that someone else is doing better even when there is no evidence to support that other than a single team. I don't get it.

This is nothing more than an expected road loss. Seahawks have no won much on the road, especially in the playoffs in their entire history. Why exactly was it expected to change this year when we're replenishing our talent? It doesn't make much sense to think we were going to become road warriors in the playoffs.

[politicalfootball]

Aseahawkfan you are right plus we were flat offensively. Very one dimensional. Our passing game was not there. So winning on the road as the wildcard is hard ,we could have done that and gotten an upset if we would have had a better passing game., which would have set up the ground game to be better but not. We played right into their hands. I Will give them credit for staying in it right up til that ludicrous drop kick. If we had tried a regular onside kick and made it, there was time left for a fg or even a TD. Oh well we'll get um next year.

[Anthony]

Aseahawkfan you are right plus we were flat offensively. Very one dimensional. Our passing game was not there. So winning on the road as the wildcard is hard ,we could have done that and gotten an upset if we would have had a better passing game., which would have set up the ground game to be better but not. We played right into their hands. I Will give them credit for staying in it right up til that ludicrous drop kick. If we had tried a regular onside kick and made it, there was time left for a fg or even a TD. Oh well we'll get um next year.

How do you know our passing game was not there we only throw the ball on 3rd and long the first 3 possessions. On the 4th possession, we throw it on FD and got 26 yards, then 40 more on the next throw, then went run, run 3rd and long and FG. next possession also a FG, started 2 passes for 25 yards, then run, run 3rd and long FG.

The passing game worked when we did it on other than 3rd and long. The problem was we were not using the passing game to set up the run, but forcing the run game even when it did not work We went run, run 3rd and long pass on every non scoring series in the first half.

Our passing game was not the problem we had 233 yards, 8.6 ypa, 1 td 67% complt. We were avg 3 ypc running yet kept doing it.We ran the ball 24 times and until the last 6 minutes had run it way more than passed it. So sorry but the facts show you and Aseahawk are wrong. The problem was the run game was not working and they stuck with it too long.

in fact, no series where we started with a run went for more than 3 and out, every series we started with a pass went for more than 3 plays. So sorry the FACTS show the passing game was not the issue. Refusing to adjust was the problem and the adjustment that took them till 6 minutes in the game to do was pass more, and on other downs that 3rd and long

[politicalfootball]

Ok I'll agree it was the run game, but it was not; Carson, Penny and Davis for the most part. It's was our OL and we have only one FA on it in Brown. We Need more FA and get rid of some of the OL we have now.

[Anthony]

Ok I'll agree it was the run game, but it was not; Carson, Penny and Davis for the most part. It's was our OL and we have only one FA on it in Brown. We Need more FA and get rid of some of the OL we have now.

As it relates to specifically why the run game was bad I agree the oline however 2 of the 5 were playing hurt. Brown is not a FA we signed him. Fluker and Sweezy were and are FAs. That said my point was we kept with he run too long when it was clear it was not working.

[politicalfootball]

Yes we kept with the run even in the second half. After we should have made adjustments.

About Brown what I meant was not that he is now a FA but that his history is from free agency.

[RiverDog]

Well, to be honest, Good teams that have that one thing is taken away, move on to another, we just kept doing it until it was too late. This is the problem with PCs whole philosophy. It leaves no room for error and always relies on our QB having to do something miraculous at the end. But because we won 1 SB and almost a 2nd people will just keep overlooking the fact that those 2 were the anomaly, not the norm. EH came in knowing the players getting ready to enter the draft, knew who to pick. GOt a #1 defense, then a beast, but still needed that Magic Qb. He got that and won, then almost won another. Problem is he does not have the top defense, teams have had 7 years to figure it out. They now know he as long as they keep running first no worries, if and when they start mixing it up and letting the magic man actually play we got problems, but PCs ego seems to get in the way. He waited too long to Let Wilson loose. I predict we will not win another SB while PC is heard, and we might lose Wilson because of it. Hard to justify 28+ mil when your own HC refuses to use him right. Thankfully while I have been saying it for awhile others are starting to catch on. And before someone says well we win more than we lose, yeah but not because of PC because our QB gets let loose and make magic. I guarantee the answer will be we almost had them we just needed more time. Loosing by one score only validates his style, which I believe may work fine in the regular season to the tune of 7-10 wins as long as we have Wilson, but int the playoffs, will not work because of his refusal to change when it is taken away.

Like it or not, our offense is based on a run-first mentality. That's always been Pete's philosophy, and I see nothing wrong with it. It's what got us this far, what allowed us to beat some of the best teams in the league and hang with a couple of others, and looking a few years back, it's what's responsible for our first and only Lombardi and 2 of our 3 SB appearances. It is who we are. It only became apparent that our running game wasn't working until well into the game, and even then, you just don't abandon it even if it was getting shut down. Russell, in fact every quarterback that has played the game, is much more effective when there's at least a threat of a run. We are not a team that is designed to sling the ball around 50 times a game.

Should we have changed things up earlier? Of course we should have. Perhaps a few more first down passes, perhaps going to Penny a little earlier. But that's 20/20 hindsight that any moron with a tv remote could have figured out. Even the way it was, with our offense not performing up to standard, we hung with them through most of the game up until Dallas finally began to wear down our defense.

This was supposed to be a rebuilding season, with an entirely new coaching staff and less 5 starters on the defensive side of the ball that were HOF/Pro Bowl quality, yet we are legitimate Super Bowl contenders. Contrary to the past 3 seasons, I feel really good about this team and the direction Pete has us going.

[jshawaii22]

[/quote\What call are you talking about? I think the refs did an excellent job tonight. I only saw one call that was clearly missed and that was the face mask one they didn't see back in the first quarter.[/quote]

Trents, there are penalties the entire game. No, i didn't closely watch each play, but here is my itch. The refs did a GREAT job in NOT being the stars of the game. They allowed the BOTH TEAMS to play the game and I'm sure there were other instances of holding and Defense grab and even the Unsportsmanlike... other then illegal motions and obvious calls, there really weren't any called.

If they had been called the whole game, i wouldn't have an issue, but they didn't call them the 'whole' game, they called them over one 5 minute stretch and all against us. Yeah, I saw the replays and they were penalties, except in a playoff the unsportsmanlike was bad. This is just my b**** of the game.

js

[RiverDog]

So the refs finally got that call from their bosses at NFL HQ to give the 'Boys the game. No calls at all for 3 quarters and now, one after the other.....all against the Hawks.

What call are you talking about? I think the refs did an excellent job tonight. I only saw one call that was clearly missed and that was the face mask one they didn't see back in the first quarter.

I'm with trent on this one. Yea, we got bit really hard on that one series, but I didn't see anything that would raise my eyebrows. Fluker was getting chippy before the play where he got called for a late hit, and had likely been told to cool it earlier in the game. As far as the missed face mask goes, it would have been an easy call to make if the ref had access to instant replay like we did, but he was behind Russell and couldn't see the grab from the angle he was looking at it from. Those things happen at randon and can go both ways. I know that the Cowboys weren't too happy about a punt return being called back on what they thought was a questionable call.

As a matter of fact, we had very few penalties called on us last night. We average around 8-9 a game and we only had 5 of them called on us the entire game. They were a very minor factor not worth wasting our breath over.

[Hawktawk]

So the refs finally got that call from their bosses at NFL HQ to give the 'Boys the game. No calls at all for 3 quarters and now, one after the other..... all against the Hawks.

This right here^^^^^^^^^exactly what i thought at the time. Look the Boys were better. Better coaching, better play but this right here ^^^^^ was maybe the straw that broke the camel's back in a 2 point loss. A lot of no calls on both teams all night but then in a must have situation it's all one way on stuff they been swallowing the whistle on all night long.

The league is so rigged. I swear some of these guys are secretly gambling or something.

[politicalfootball]

Yes bad calls during a 5 min stretch cost us the game that and the missed onside fg kick by Dickson when he didn't have enough height of the football to allow us a chance to get the ball. Plus at that point in time we had enough time on the clock for a play or two then a fg try.

[NorthHawk]

Sure, some bad calls, but it was the inept Offense that was the issue, not the refereeing.

[trents]

Have you guys thought about the fact that had not Janikowski missed that one field goal where he pulled his hamstring, we would have come out on top. That was the difference. We still would have been outplayed but we would have won. I have never seen a place kicker suffer that kind of injury. He doesn't look like he's in top physical shape.

[Hawktawk]

Have you guys thought about the fact that had not Janikowski missed that one field goal where he pulled his hamstring, we would have come out on top. That was the difference. We still would have been outplayed but we would have won. I have never seen a place kicker suffer that kind of injury. He doesn't look like he's in top physical shape.

Dude is about 45. That 2 minute sequence near the half was critical. Hawks take a 6-3 lead and inexplicably don’t get a Pad on Elliot for 44 yards setting up a go ahead TD. Lockett a huge return then with one of the best deep ball throwersin the league Carroll appeared to play for a 50+ yard FG instead of trying harder to get closer. Literally just had Davis spot it on the hash on 3rd down as opposed to a pass. The injury to sea bass was the icing on the cake . Of course were he healthy and had he made the kick it’s at best a one point loss unless they still go for 2 on the last TD. Just wasn’t meant to be....

[RiverDog]

Have you guys thought about the fact that had not Janikowski missed that one field goal where he pulled his hamstring, we would have come out on top. That was the difference. We still would have been outplayed but we would have won. I have never seen a place kicker suffer that kind of injury. He doesn't look like he's in top physical shape.

No way can you project a different final result based on one missed FG in the first half. Both the Cowboys and the Seahawks may or may not have played differently in the 2nd half based on the score at the time.

For example, Dallas may not have called as many running plays with a one score lead like they did with a two score lead, and no one knows what would have resulted from that different play calling. All making that FG would have meant is that it would have increased our chances of winning.

[trents]

The bottom line of why we lost and why our offense needs to be more creative and versatile.

[RiverDog]

The bottom line of why we lost and why our offense needs to be more creative and versatile.

Yes, we probably should have done things a little differently had we known in advance that our running game was going to be so ineffective and we probably should have started throwing the ball more, particularly on first downs, than we did, and we should have turned to Penny earlier than we did. Hindsight is 20/20.

But I do not advocate making wholesale changes to our offense because we matched up and/or performed poorly in one game. We simply are not built that way, we don't have a Julio Jones or an AJ Green-type WR that would no doubt be required to be "more creative and versatile", and it's not how we won 6 of our last 7 games and hung until the end in 3 games against 2 teams that lost a combined 7 regular season games.

Seriously, some of you guys are acting like this was a huge blowout loss like what happened to us last year at home vs. the Rams.

[burrrton]

Only thing I want to add:

How in the h3ll does a placekicker pull a hamstring on a kick like that? It's precisely the same motion he's been doing all day, every day, for the last 20 years, and that he had done a million times that day after stretching and loosening up to a degree most can't even fathom. It's a controlled, practiced, predictable motion prepared for endlessly.

I know sh*t happens, but how does *that* happen?

[RiverDog]

Only thing I want to add:

How in the h3ll does a placekicker pull a hamstring on a kick like that? It's precisely the same motion he's been doing all day, every day, for the last 20 years, and that he had done a million times that day after stretching and loosening up to a degree most can't even fathom. It's a controlled, practiced, predictable motion prepared for endlessly.

I know sh*t happens, but how does *that* happen?

Same reason he couldn't at least attempt to tackle a kick returner vs. Santa Clara: He's old, overweight, and out of shape.

Seabass needs to be gone. I have a hard time believing that there aren't kickers available that can at least equal his production and aren't named Blair Walsh.

[jshawaii22]

Trents,

Nice chart. The circle should of been on the 1.5yard per rush for Carson. That's the ballgame.

[RiverDog]

Trents,

Nice chart. The circle should of been on the 1.5yard per rush for Carson.

And a circle around Penny's 7.3 average. Perhaps had we gone to Penny a little earlier it might have shook things up.

[burrrton]

I haven't rewatched yet, but it looked like our defense was milquetoast. There was Bobby and KJ, and the rest of the D kinda disappeared, didn't they? Little pressure, missed tackles...

Early struggles from the offense with late struggles by the defense equals "see ya next year".

[trents]

Carson is a tough inside runner. Penny has elite speed (4.4 forty) for a ball carrier and can hit the home run when he bonces it to the outside. Penny seems a little fragile, however. The two make a good change up combo.

After more thought, I tend to agree with River. It would be stupid to attempt to remake the whole team when Carol's concept was basically working well enough to turn our season around and get us into the playoffs. Improving on what we have been building makes more sense. You can expect these playoff games to be close and the team that makes a couple or three more plays than the other at critical times usually wins. Making improvements in the team here and there in the off season to tip that balance a little for the next time seems a wiser strategy. It also occurs to me that the outcome of that game yesterday might have been different if our O line had been healthy.

Having said that, I do think it is valid to say that Carol sticks too stubbornly to his run first philosophy when it ain't working and allows our offense to become too predictable. That does need to change. While it is true that a good running game can open up the passing game the reverse of that is also true. We need to do a better job of keeping opposing defenses guessing. Carol was correct in recommitting to development of the ground game after the season started with four losses. It paid off and we became the top run team in the NFL. But now it's time to develop some other dimensions of our offense to keep good defenses honest.

[EmeraldBullet]

If you remove Elliots 45 yard run at the end of the 2nd quarter our defense against the run looks a lot better.