Time to Trade Wilson??

[trents]

You guys are missing the obvious. Hawks' management got Paxton Lynch to replace Wilson and save money.

[Anthony]

You guys are missing the obvious. Hawks' management got Paxton Lynch to replace Wilson and save money.

LOL good one, thanks for the laugh.

[obiken]

NO, They got Lynch as a quality backup that's it, period.

[RiverDog]

NO, They got Lynch as a quality backup that's it, period.

He's not being brought in as a backup, at least not yet. They signed him to a futures contract, which is simply a retainer. It's like Cbob says, he's another arm to come in and compete for a roster spot.

At this point, I wouldn't consider him a "quality" backup as he lost his backup job in Denver.

[Hawktawk]

UUUUUUUUMMMMMM. No
The fans would revolt for one thing .Hes the face of the franchise and one of the most dynamic play makers in the league.

IMO we have the most Dangerruss best dual threat QB in history. He doesn't even miss practice much less a game.Compare that to Rodgers, as well as his outgoing personality and presence in the community. His deep ball prowess is phenomenal and he just finished one of the most efficient seasons as a passer in NFL history.His passing and rushing production relative to attempts has to damn near be some kind of NFL record. Speaking of which he has plenty .

And hes only played 7 years. I don't know what the number is to get him signed and Im not sure we will get the hometown discount but anyone who thinks we need to trade Wilson to keep Frank Clark etc is utterly delusional.And as an aside if PC and JS have proven one thing its their ability to steal late rounders and FAs to fill the roles.
Russell Wilson's don't grow on trees.

[NorthHawk]

UUUUUUUUMMMMMM. No
The fans would revolt for one thing .Hes the face of the franchise and one of the most dynamic play makers in the league.

IMO we have the most Dangerruss best dual threat QB in history. He doesn't even miss practice much less a game.Compare that to Rodgers, as well as his outgoing personality and presence in the community. His deep ball prowess is phenomenal and he just finished one of the most efficient seasons as a passer in NFL history.His passing and rushing production relative to attempts has to damn near be some kind of NFL record. Speaking of which he has plenty .

And hes only played 7 years. I don't know what the number is to get him signed and Im not sure we will get the hometown discount but anyone who thinks we need to trade Wilson to keep Frank Clark etc is utterly delusional.And as an aside if PC and JS have proven one thing its their ability to steal late rounders and FAs to fill the roles.
Russell Wilson's don't grow on trees.

A good start will be $35 to $40 million per year to retain Wilson.
He may take a cue from Cousins' playbook and go the Tag route thus guaranteeing himself the FT numbers.
I can also see that he might get a contract that is fully guaranteed. Maybe he would take a little less for that, but don't bet on it.

[RiverDog]

UUUUUUUUMMMMMM. No
The fans would revolt for one thing .Hes the face of the franchise and one of the most dynamic play makers in the league.

IMO we have the most Dangerruss best dual threat QB in history. He doesn't even miss practice much less a game.Compare that to Rodgers, as well as his outgoing personality and presence in the community. His deep ball prowess is phenomenal and he just finished one of the most efficient seasons as a passer in NFL history.His passing and rushing production relative to attempts has to damn near be some kind of NFL record. Speaking of which he has plenty .

And hes only played 7 years. I don't know what the number is to get him signed and Im not sure we will get the hometown discount but anyone who thinks we need to trade Wilson to keep Frank Clark etc is utterly delusional.And as an aside if PC and JS have proven one thing its their ability to steal late rounders and FAs to fill the roles.
Russell Wilson's don't grow on trees.

A good start will be $35 to $40 million per year to retain Wilson.
He may take a cue from Cousins' playbook and go the Tag route thus guaranteeing himself the FT numbers.
I can also see that he might get a contract that is fully guaranteed. Maybe he would take a little less for that, but don't bet on it.

I hope he doesn't ask for that much. I'm not sure Pete and John would bite. And going the FT route has its risk for Russell. If he has an Alex Smith-type injury, there goes his big contract, plus there's nothing stopping us from executing a trade.

I'll be a lot more comfortable if he signs an extension this season. There's too much uncertainty and too many distractions if he goes into his final season w/o an extension.

[NorthHawk]

Aaron Rodgers just signed last year for $33.5 million average, so that's what I based it on.
I fully expect them to ask for and get more than Rodgers considering his value to the Seahawks.

[RiverDog]

Aaron Rodgers just signed last year for $33.5 million average, so that's what I based it on.
I fully expect them to ask for and get more than Rodgers considering his value to the Seahawks.

Oh, I understand where you got your numbers from, and I'm not disagreeing. I'm just not sure that we'll go for it or not. That's pushing 20% of the cap, and given how Pete is a defense/run first coach, I'm not sure he'll throw open the vault like that.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure what choice they have, though short of drafting Kyler Murray.
It seems Wilson has all the leverage unless they think they can put almost any QB back there
which I think is wrong. But who knows? We'll have to see how it turns out.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure what choice they have, though short of drafting Kyler Murray.
It seems Wilson has all the leverage unless they think they can put almost any QB back there
which I think is wrong. But who knows? We'll have to see how it turns out.

That would depend on the trade offer, which almost certainly would have to include a young starting quality quarterback, someone like Deshawn Watson or Lamar Jackson. It would have to be a blockbuster, Herschel Walker-type trade, but it's not some hair brained, wacky scheme, either.

Since the Hawks have him under contract through 2019, they still have some leverage this spring, but they'll lose it if they let it go beyond next season. That's why it's imperative that they get a deal done before the start of the regular season.

[Hawktawk]

Read an article yesterday that theorized Russ and his agent might either want in the range of 32-35 million a year, or slightly less FULLY guaranteed, or perhaps he would just go the tag route. Another idea floated by the author was to apply some pressure by drafting kyler Murray if he’s available, an outstanding QB but short , something Seattle adjusted to years ago. All food for off season speculation .

[RiverDog]

Read an article yesterday that theorized Russ and his agent might either want in the range of 32-35 million a year, or slightly less FULLY guaranteed, or perhaps he would just go the tag route. Another idea floated by the author was to apply some pressure by drafting kyler Murray if he’s available, an outstanding QB but short , something Seattle adjusted to years ago. All food for off season speculation .

Murray is the top player available in this year's draft, and Arizona owns the #1 overall. A deal with a division rival is extremely unlikely, especially if it involves Russell.

A fully guaranteed contract for a lesser amount is an attractive idea and might be a solution that both sides could live with.

[obiken]

River there are not that many good QB's coming out this year, and if the Niner fans call RW a midget, Murray is a Dwarf! There is no guarantee he will even be average. A trade for a Foles or a Flacco, is the best we could do, and TRUST ME, I am not for that. I just see doom all the way around.

[Hawktawk]

Read today that there have been NO discussions between the Seattle brass and Russ concerning an extension despite Carroll’s cheery talk. Russ is quoted as saying “ I understand I could be a free agent “.

[RiverDog]

Read today that there have been NO discussions between the Seattle brass and Russ concerning an extension despite Carroll’s cheery talk. Russ is quoted as saying “ I understand I could be a free agent “.

I'm only guessing and don't have anything to base my opinion on, but with a contract as big and momenteous as Russell's extension is likely to be, the "Seattle brass", who ever that is, could be waiting until our ownership issue is resolved. Russell is still under contract through the 2019 season, so there's no rush to get a deal done.

Don't panic yet.

[idhawkman]

River there are not that many good QB's coming out this year, and if the Niner fans call RW a midget, Murray is a Dwarf! There is no guarantee he will even be average. A trade for a Foles or a Flacco, is the best we could do, and TRUST ME, I am not for that. I just see doom all the way around.

I think that is subjective though. Brady wasn't suppose to be good. Russ wasn't suppose to be able to make it either. I'm not saying that this statement is wrong, but there could be a diamond in the rough that isn't known yet.

[RiverDog]

River there are not that many good QB's coming out this year, and if the Niner fans call RW a midget, Murray is a Dwarf! There is no guarantee he will even be average. A trade for a Foles or a Flacco, is the best we could do, and TRUST ME, I am not for that. I just see doom all the way around.

I think that is subjective though. Brady wasn't suppose to be good. Russ wasn't suppose to be able to make it either. I'm not saying that this statement is wrong, but there could be a diamond in the rough that isn't known yet.

Absolutely true, but I think the point Obi was making is that there isn't a QB on the horizon that's worth taking a risk on that might mitigate the effects of losing Russell, and I agree with him. That doesn't mean that a QB coming out of nowhere like Brady or Russell won't materialize.

[NorthHawk]

I'm only guessing and don't have anything to base my opinion on, but with a contract as big and momenteous as Russell's extension is likely to be, the "Seattle brass", who ever that is, could be waiting until our ownership issue is resolved. Russell is still under contract through the 2019 season, so there's no rush to get a deal done.

I think it's more of the opening bars of the normal dance of negotiations between Front Office and Player Agent.
Each side may be waiting for the opening bid from the other as it's still early and when it begins the Agent will
demand more than he knows they are going to get and the FO will offer less than they know they will eventually pay.
I just hope that gap isn't too wide to overcome, but Wilson holds most of the leverage.

[Sports Hernia]

Do you get better by trading Russ who is a franchise QB?
The obvious answer is no. So you don’t do it. If we are talking about a running back then yes, but that position is a different animal.

[RiverDog]

Do you get better by trading Russ who is a franchise QB?
The obvious answer is no. So you don’t do it. If we are talking about a running back then yes, but that position is a different animal.

Trades of franchise QB's don't happen very often, but there's been a number of examples of teams parting ways with not only franchise QB's, but HOF QB's, and did quite well:

The Niners parted ways with Joe Montana, elevated Steve Young and did pretty well. The Packers let Bret Favre walk, promoted Aaron Rodgers and remained competitive. And most recently, the Colts did not resign Peyton Manning and instead drafted Andrew Luck and went deep into the playoffs.

Unlike those teams, we do not have a quality backup in place or our hands on a #1 overall draft pick. But you can't say that a team can't compete if they trade their QB until you know who their replacement might be.

[NorthHawk]

At some point if the amount the player is demanding and the amount the team can spend don't meet, a trade could result.
There are other teams at the bottom who could afford to pay $35 to $40 million/year and would to sell tickets and we might
have to just take the 3 1st round picks in exchange.
I don't know if it will get that far, but there is a finite amount we can pay and it's less than what some other teams can afford.

[Hawktawk]

Trades of franchise QB's don't happen very often, but there's been a number of examples of teams parting ways with not only franchise QB's, but HOF QB's, and did quite well:

The Niners parted ways with Joe Montana, elevated Steve Young and did pretty well. The Packers let Bret Favre walk, promoted Aaron Rodgers and remained competitive. And most recently, the Colts did not resign Peyton Manning and instead drafted Andrew Luck and went deep into the playoffs.

Unlike those teams, we do not have a quality backup in place or our hands on a #1 overall draft pick. But you can't say that a team can't compete if they trade their QB until you know who their replacement might be.

Well you make the point of those who think trading Wilson for any price is delusional. The examples you cite are very similar and very rare. All 3 had QBs who were clearly halfway through the back 9 at the time.

Farve had already retired then reconsidered but even then it was more of a gamble as Rogers was still unproven but had several years of camp and preseason to show his wares.

Manning had missed an entire season with a neck injury and was thought to be a long shot ever to play again and their dreadful record without Manning allowed them the high pick to get Luck in the first place . And last I checked Luck has yet to make a conference championship much less a SB and has been injury prone to boot.

In the case of the 9ers Montana was old, had been injured quite a bit and Young had gotten significant playing time in which he had proven to be a dynamic dual threat winner making it a relatively safe if unpopular decision.

All 3 deposed QBs had some accomplishments with their new teams, Manning obviously the most, Favre reached a championship game in his second new home and Montana had a playoff team with KC.

In the case of Seattle Wilson is a 7 year vet when next season starts, coming into his prime off the most efficient season of his career. We have the 22nd pick and 4 overall and a bevy of FAs to figure out what to do with making a move way up to get a Kyler Murray pig in a poke pretty unlikely. Russ is signed through the season so its not an immediate emergency although Id be working on it now in the hope that showing initiative will save a little bit of dough and flexibility with negotiating room on the last year of the current deal..

Frankly I think it's a tragedy if Russ doesn't retire a Seahawks in 7 to 10 years and I think we will be rewarded handsomely if he does. Many talk about the Hawks as a dark horse candidate to get back to the big game as early as next year as a MOF.

Worst comes to worst we franchise him. I say no HELL NO do we part ways with the best QB we have ever had and it's not a close call.

[RiverDog]

Trades of franchise QB's don't happen very often, but there's been a number of examples of teams parting ways with not only franchise QB's, but HOF QB's, and did quite well:

The Niners parted ways with Joe Montana, elevated Steve Young and did pretty well. The Packers let Bret Favre walk, promoted Aaron Rodgers and remained competitive. And most recently, the Colts did not resign Peyton Manning and instead drafted Andrew Luck and went deep into the playoffs.

Unlike those teams, we do not have a quality backup in place or our hands on a #1 overall draft pick. But you can't say that a team can't compete if they trade their QB until you know who their replacement might be.

Well you make the point of those who think trading Wilson for any price is delusional. The examples you cite are very similar and very rare. All 3 had QBs who were clearly halfway through the back 9 at the time.

Those were the most high profile. There are others. Alex Smith, for example, even though playing very well, was succeeded mid season by Colin Kaepernick yet the Niners came within 10 yards of a Lombardi. This season, Smith was sent packing and Patrick Mahomes took over and led the Chiefs to their best season in 40 years. Drew Bledsoe was playing well for the Pats yet Tom Brady stepped in and led his team to the SB once Bledsoe was injured. My point is that letting go of a franchise quarterback does not necessarily mean years of misery. It all depends on who you bring in to replace him. We obviously don't currently have a QB the magnitude of a Mahomes or Brady on our roster, but if we were somehow able to get our hands on Murray.....

Worst comes to worst we franchise him. I say no HELL NO do we part ways with the best QB we have ever had and it's not a close call.

If there is no viable trade available where we couldn't get a viable replacement, then we would have no choice but to use the FT. But if this spring or summer a palatable long term contract isn't in the works, I'd rather at least explore other options before he hits the FA market.

Bottom line is that I care more about winning football games than keeping any individual player or coach, and what ever move is more likely to achieve that objective is what I'm for.

[Hawktawk]

Brady was probably the biggest gamble ever but then in hindsight Belichick has proven for 17 year now that he's a master at identifying and acquiring the type of player he needs to win. I'll still say forever than Bill would be a lot better off over the last 17 years than Tom would have were they not together and that in the short term Bledsoe could have enjoyed similar success but can't argue with the results sticking with Tom provided.

As for Alex Smith the dude was always serviceable but was a second tier guy his entire career with a limited arm and a conservative mentality that limited turnovers but also big plays.Kap being elevated over him was an overreaction by Harbaugh over his shiny new toy that almost netted a lombardi but ultimately greased his skids on the way out of town starting with Kaps idiotic decision to test the best CB in the game with a pass to a mediocre receiver with the NFC championship on the line the following year. On that defensive laden team Smith may have done what Kap didn't but we will never know. When he went to KC he was the same guy he always was, serviceable but not a guy who could go win a game for anyone.
If I were Reid and #1 was smart enough to A. ignore the naysayers and pick Mahomes and B. watched the dude practice for a year Id say that one was a no brainer as hindsight has proven.

Again though, none of the above situations applies to Wilson, a clear franchise guy in his early prime with 2 super bowl appearances and a lombardi, something like 9 playoff wins, one of the highest passer ratings in NFL history and numerous NFL records. He is one of the best deep ball throwers in the league, a dual threat guy, extremely durable and tough having never missed a practice much less a game despite injuries that would have had Hass out a month.

No way no how does this team move on from this guy in his prime barring a devastating injury or a season where he falls off a cliff performance wise.

[NorthHawk]

Except for money.
If he goes the FT route, they might think it's too rich and trade him.

[RiverDog]

No way no how does this team move on from this guy in his prime barring a devastating injury or a season where he falls off a cliff performance wise.

No way now how do you know that. It's your opinion, and nothing more. None of us knows where the Hawks tolerance limit is, but whether it's $25M, $50M, or $75M, I can assure you that it does exist. My point is that it's not necessarily the end of the world if we move away from Russell. The key would be who do we get as his replacement.

[c_hawkbob]

Except for money.
If he goes the FT route, they might think it's too rich and trade him.

I think the F tag would be the team's choice more than his.

[c_hawkbob]

My point is that it's not necessarily the end of the world if we move away from Russell. The key would be who do we get as his replacement.

I thoroughly disagree. You don't get rid of a franchise QB to go look for another. If we already had one, or if Murray were to fall within reach maybe, but it's like a job when you're providing for a young family:you NEVER quit and go look for one, you find a better one to go to, then quit.

[NorthHawk]

Except for money.
If he goes the FT route, they might think it's too rich and trade him.

I think the F tag would be the team's choice more than his.[/quote]

I'm not so sure. His agent is from Baseball with more guaranteed contracts
and Russell might think it's worth the injury risk as he hasn't yet missed any
games, so it works financially, and most important, it worked for Cousins who
is a lesser QB.
I think his agent might look at the FT as a viable route to go if they don't get
the money they want or expect.

[RiverDog]

My point is that it's not necessarily the end of the world if we move away from Russell. The key would be who do we get as his replacement.

I thoroughly disagree. You don't get rid of a franchise QB to go look for another. If we already had one, or if Murray were to fall within reach maybe, but it's like a job when you're providing for a young family:you NEVER quit and go look for one, you find a better one to go to, then quit.

From the above paragraph of mine that you quoted back to me, please point out where was it that I said or implied that we should "get rid" of Russell and go "look" for replacement?

You're over dramatizing my remarks.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm not dramatizing anything. You said it wouldn't be the end of the world if we got rid of Wilson, I'm illustrating the point that as we don't have a replacement for him, yes, as it relates to the world of football competitiveness, it would be.

[NorthHawk]

We would need a very competent QB as a replacement for Wilson should we let him go.
I'm beginning to wonder if a replacement would have to be mobile.
Wilson has that added dimension, but Pete's previous QBs in College weren't the most
mobile if I remember correctly. Off the top of my head they were Palmer, Sanchez,
Leinert, and another QB who I can't remember, but none were running type QB's.
In the NFL with the Pats, he had Bledsoe who had some athleticism, but wasn't
exceptional.

[idhawkman]

We would need a very competent QB as a replacement for Wilson should we let him go.
I'm beginning to wonder if a replacement would have to be mobile.
Wilson has that added dimension, but Pete's previous QBs in College weren't the most
mobile if I remember correctly. Off the top of my head they were Palmer, Sanchez,
Leinert, and another QB who I can't remember, but none were running type QB's.
In the NFL with the Pats, he had Bledsoe who had some athleticism, but wasn't
exceptional.

To be Fair, RW isn't so mobile anymore either. That said, he does have his moments that are very impactful.

[mykc14]

To be Fair, RW isn't so mobile anymore either.

Isn't so mobile? He is easily a top 10 QB still when it comes to QB mobility.

[idhawkman]

Isn't so mobile? He is easily a top 10 QB still when it comes to QB mobility.

Do you think he's as mobile as he was just 2-3 years ago?

[mykc14]

Do you think he's as mobile as he was just 2-3 years ago?

No.

[c_hawkbob]

"As mobile as he was 2 or 3 years ago" is pretty rareified air, he can easily not be that (which is unquestionably the case) and still in the 2 or 3 most mobile in the league .

[NorthHawk]

He's added more weight, too which along with time will slow people a little,
but I agree with Bob on this.

[idhawkman]

He's added more weight, too which along with time will slow people a little,
but I agree with Bob on this.

I made that point a couple years ago after the Suh Ankle incident. He is more durable but not near the running threat he was. That doesn't mean he is all washed up, but it does mean we may need to tweak a few things to make up for the loss. Everybody gets older and loses a step, hopefully you gain in experience and knowledge to make up for it. That's more of what I want from RW now and not so much the elusiveness he once possessed.

There's little things I've seen him do this past year that he hadn't done before such as he hard counts more now. Other teams in the past would count on his rhythm and jump snap counts. Not as much this year though. Little things like that or audibling into a different play, etc. I would like to see him get rid of the ball quicker on plays that are clearly a bust and I'd love to see him realize when he's in a game that he needs to not hold the ball (e.g. Rams games).