Report on Doug Baldwin Not Good --

[burrrton]

Not to mention going over the middle usually meant you lost your head especially when playing against Ronnie Lott, Hayes and the likes of them.

Yup. Crossing routes were essentially WRs taking their lives into their hands.

[RiverDog]

Not to mention going over the middle usually meant you lost your head especially when playing against Ronnie Lott, Hayes and the likes of them.

Yup. Crossing routes were essentially WRs taking their lives into their hands.

Plus we're not talking about rule changes just for receivers/DB's. The progressively strict rule changes regarding quarterback protections has helped the passing game in general, and with it, the performance of receivers.

That's why I always bristle at these "GOAT" discussions and contrasting players from different eras. Much more so than the other major sports, football is way more dynamic.

[idhawkman]

Plus we're not talking about rule changes just for receivers/DB's. The progressively strict rule changes regarding quarterback protections has helped the passing game in general, and with it, the performance of receivers.

That's why I always bristle at these "GOAT" discussions and contrasting players from different eras. Much more so than the other major sports, football is way more dynamic.

I'm with you on this. GOATs are usually only in their own era. Sammy Baugh, Unitas, etc. I think they played in a much different league where there was no "tuck" rule or hands to the face or .... Hard to say if Brady would have lasted this long in those days.

[trents]

I must admit, the parting of ways with Doug Baldwin caught me by surprise. I mean I knew there was a question about whether or not he would recover sufficiently from his injuries to be able to play again but man, the decision to drop him came so fast! Did they really give it enough time? Was there something else going on there? Seems like they were not just looking at his injury situation but maybe also his age and contract costs and so wanted to be able to put those bucks elsewhere. Did this move strike anyone else as a little sudden and peculiar?

[NorthHawk]

I suspect they had ongoing discussions with Baldwin about what he thought about his immediate future.
If true, he probably indicated he wouldn't be back, at least for this year, so they had to make a tough
decision for the team.

[Agent 86]

Here are a few tidbits on the cuts made as per the Seattle Times.

Baldwin - had no more guaranteed money owed to him. He keeps $7 million in bonus money from the 4 year contract he signed in 2016 by being cut. Had he retired, he would have had to pay that back. He is eligible for $1.2 million in injury protection for 2019 as per the CBA, again, something he is eligible for by being cut and would have not been eligible by retiring. Seahawks save $6.8 million in 2019 and $11 million in 2020 in cap space (depending on that $1.2 million injury protection). On the surface, it looks like the move was mutually beneficial. ADB will probably miss this year, and then will be up to him to see if he wants to make a comeback in 2020. If he does, I would imagine the Seahawks would get first crack.

Chancellor - has injury guarantees that pay him $5.2 million in 2019. Seahawks are not on the hook for anymore money with Chancellor, even though there are still 2 years left on it. Seahawks save $2.3 million in 2019 and $12 million in 2020 in cap space with the cut.

These 2 players were absolute gems, huge parts of those great teams and bringing a Lombardi to Seattle. I have said it before, but the moment Chancellor laid out Vernon Davis in that December beatdown in Seattle in 2012, that was the moment for me that the Hawks were for real and were taking over that division.

It's tough to see them go, but I am so thankful they wore that Seahawks jersey and helped bring a championship to Seattle. For the record, Chancellor would have been my choice for Super Bowl MVP.

[trents]

Yeah, I hadn't thought about Baldwin staying out a year and then possibly coming back to the Hawks. Sometimes protracted injury rehab can actually extend a player's career a bit as it gives him opportunity to let the whole body rejuvenate.

[jshawaii22]

I'm pretty sure these were both "mutual decisions" as it's been pointed out that the team prefers to write off cap space at one time and the players, each with Injury Designation cuts, each got a few $$$ million as a retirement gift.
I'd really be surprised if Doug comes back or even attempts it. I see him going into coaching or maybe an 'incentive' speaker.

Retiring as the second best Seahawk receiver ever. Not bad.

[I-5]

Definitely second best Seawhawks receiver ever. Galloway could have probably been #2 at least, but just didn't stick around long enough. He certainly had the talent. Lockett has a chance to be 2nd best all-time as well if stays healthy and in Seattle.

[jshawaii22]

Seahawks would have to change to 60 pass 40 run in order for Locket to put up the kind of numbers to pass Doug.

[c_hawkbob]

Definitely second best Seawhawks receiver ever. Galloway could have probably been #2 at least, but just didn't stick around long enough. He certainly had the talent. Lockett has a chance to be 2nd best all-time as well if stays healthy and in Seattle.

Bobby E was in that mix as well, but as it turns out Doug is second only to Largent.

And RE the previous discussion, it's not really close. You can only judge a player by their contemporaries, not by those that came after them, and to have held nearly every NFL record when he retired puts Steve Largent in the discussion for NFL GOAT, let alone the team's greatest.

Dougie was a spectacular talent though, and as tough as nails, no slight to him whatsoever.

[idhawkman]

I'm pretty sure these were both "mutual decisions" as it's been pointed out that the team prefers to write off cap space at one time and the players, each with Injury Designation cuts, each got a few $$$ million as a retirement gift.
I'd really be surprised if Doug comes back or even attempts it. I see him going into coaching or maybe an 'incentive' speaker.

Retiring as the second best Seahawk receiver ever. Not bad.

I'm not so sure about an incentive speaker. Companies may think about that little stunt he pulled in the end zone in 49 and opt to go a different direction. Its not the image I would present to my company but we'll have to wait and see though.

[RiverDog]

Definitely second best Seawhawks receiver ever. Galloway could have probably been #2 at least, but just didn't stick around long enough. He certainly had the talent. Lockett has a chance to be 2nd best all-time as well if stays healthy and in Seattle.

Bobby E was in that mix as well, but as it turns out Doug is second only to Largent.

Not sure what standard you're using, but Brian Blades had both more receptions and more receiving yards than any other Seahawk not named Steve Largent.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... eiving.htm

Bobby is quite a ways back in all statistical categories.

But to reiterate what several of us have said, we can't be comparing players from different eras as "2nd best all time."

[c_hawkbob]

Was Blades not already brought up in that discussion? My bad if not, but Bobby was the one that was seeming overlooked as I read it, probably because of all he meant to the first SB version of this team more so that trying to put him above anyone else.

[idhawkman]

Was Blades not already brought up in that discussion? My bad if not, but Bobby was the one that was seeming overlooked as I read it, probably because of all he meant to the first SB version of this team more so that trying to put him above anyone else.

Engram was very important to that first SB run but I think a lot of fans overlook just how important Jeruvicious was for us that year, too. J-vicious only played a year or two for us so I can see why they overlook him but I was a huge fan of his back then. Without him I don't think we make it to the show.

[RiverDog]

Was Blades not already brought up in that discussion? My bad if not, but Bobby was the one that was seeming overlooked as I read it, probably because of all he meant to the first SB version of this team more so that trying to put him above anyone else.

I only read back to I-5's comment that he felt that Baldwin was the 2nd best Hawks receiver then mentioned that Galloway "could have been the #2" after which you mentioned that Bobby needed to be included in that discussion. Blades was mentioned somewhere in the 50+ post thread, but not so as I could notice. I thought you guys were overlooking him.

Except as it applies to Largent being the clear #1, it's not fair to any of the other receivers to rank them against one another as they all played under different circumstances. Suffice it to say that Baldwin was "one of" the best receivers in Seahawk history.

[I-5]

Riv is right that it's not fair to judge receivers of different eras, rules, and such...yet we do it all the time:

Brian Blades
11 seasons / 156 games / 581 receptions / 7620 yards / 13.1 yards per catch / 34 touchdowns

Doug Baldwin
8 seasons / 123 games / 493 receptions / 6563 yards / 13.3 yards per catch / 49 touchdowns

With 3 more years of services, Blades does have the edge in receptions and yardage...

[RiverDog]

I'm not using this to argue the merits of either receiver, but it is an interesting contrast.

Here's the list of starting quarterbacks Brian Blades played for:

Dave Krieg, Jeff Kemp, Kelly Stouffer, Dan McGuire, Stan Gelbaugh, Rick Mirer, John Friesz, Warren Moon, and Jon Kitna.

Here's the list of starting quarterbacks Doug Baldwin played for:

Tavaris Jackson (2011), and Russell Wilson (2012-18).

[NorthHawk]

There are other things to consider as well such as the types of Offenses each played in.
For instance, comparing a WR from a Don Coryell Offense to one playing for a George
Allen Offense. You can't compare the two and so it is with the same team, but different
offensive philosophies and surrounding talent.

They only way to compare players of different eras is to note how well they did relative
to their peers. But even that can't be truly measured because of the Offensive differences.

[RiverDog]

There are other things to consider as well such as the types of Offenses each played in.
For instance, comparing a WR from a Don Coryell Offense to one playing for a George
Allen Offense. You can't compare the two and so it is with the same team, but different
offensive philosophies and surrounding talent.

They only way to compare players of different eras is to note how well they did relative
to their peers. But even that can't be truly measured because of the Offensive differences.

The defenses on their respective teams makes a difference, too. A LOB defense keeps scoring low, and encourages more running and ball control. A leaky D would result in playing from behind more often, and encourage an offense to open up and throw the ball more.

If we gave ourselves a few more weeks, we could probably come up with another half dozen reasons why we shouldn't be comparing receivers.

[I-5]

If we gave ourselves a few more weeks, we could probably come up with another half dozen reasons why we shouldn't be comparing receivers.

And yet, you know we will keep doing it. That's one of the classic hallmarks of sports forums...

If we're picking teams and both are in their prime (using current QB Russell, this defense, these rules), would you choose Blades to be on your team or Baldwin?

[c_hawkbob]

And yet, you know we will keep doing it. That's one of the classic hallmarks of sports forums...

If we're picking teams and both are in their prime (using current QB Russell, this defense, these rules), would you choose Blades to be on your team or Baldwin?

Baldwin in a heartbeat.

[RiverDog]

If we gave ourselves a few more weeks, we could probably come up with another half dozen reasons why we shouldn't be comparing receivers.

And yet, you know we will keep doing it. That's one of the classic hallmarks of sports forums...

If we're picking teams and both are in their prime (using current QB Russell, this defense, these rules), would you choose Blades to be on your team or Baldwin?

Both were darn good receivers, but Baldwin brought more to the team in terms of a locker room presence, plus he had playoff/SB experience that Blades never had, so I'd take Baldwin.

[burrrton]

Baldwin in a heartbeat.

This.

[I-5]

I'm picking Baldwin over Blades any day of the week as well.

Throw Galloway in his prime in the mix...another story

[jshawaii22]

Galloway's room on the Ring of Honor would be for his value in the trade to Dallas. I think it brought us Alexander and Hutch, but I might be dreaming. Two #1's though. Wasn't a Seahawk long enough to be in the conversation about Blades, Bobby E or Doug.

[RiverDog]

Galloway's room on the Ring of Honor would be for his value in the trade to Dallas. I think it brought us Alexander and Hutch, but I might be dreaming. Two #1's though. Wasn't a Seahawk long enough to be in the conversation about Blades, Bobby E or Doug.

I agree. Galloway might have had a couple of good seasons, but he only played for us for 4.5 seasons (he held out for 8 games in the Walrus's first season) and never made the Pro Bowl. He doesn't belong in a conversation with receivers like Baldwin, Blades, Engram, et al.

[I-5]

I agree with you guys that Galloway doesn’t belong in this echelon of Seahawks greats. I was talking more about picking players for a pure scrimmage game.

[RiverDog]

I agree with you guys that Galloway doesn’t belong in this echelon of Seahawks greats. I was talking more about picking players for a pure scrimmage game.

If that were all we were doing, you'd have to include Percy Harvin and Koren Robinson.

[idhawkman]

Lol, if that were the case, then the greatest Seahawk receiver was Rice.

[Hawktawk]

Lol, if that were the case, then the greatest Seahawk receiver was Rice.

Great point on jerivicious ID. Dude had great hands and blocked like a Mack truck in the run game. He was also nasty and tough.

I remember a play where he’s running down the field on a route and a DB is mugging him and he literally grabbed a handful of the dudes jersey and flipped him and slammed him with one hand. Ground loop.

Along with losing Hutch he was a huge loss when he went to Cleveland .

[idhawkman]

Great point on jerivicious ID. Dude had great hands and blocked like a Mack truck in the run game. He was also nasty and tough.

I remember a play where he’s running down the field on a route and a DB is mugging him and he literally grabbed a handful of the dudes jersey and flipped him and slammed him with one hand. Ground loop.

Along with losing Hutch he was a huge loss when he went to Cleveland .

Yeah, I think he brought a lot of maturity and championship experience to the team also. Really liked that guy.

[I-5]

I never got to meet Joe, but he married my late boss' daughter Meghan, which makes him her son-in-law. She spoke so highly of him as a person, not just an athlete.

[idhawkman]

I never got to meet Joe, but he married my late boss' daughter Meghan, which makes him her son-in-law. She spoke so highly of him as a person, not just an athlete.

Sorry to hear about your boss.

I always liked the maturity that he showed in interviews and appearances. I really think the team as a whole needed that for their SB push that year. He had that experience coming from the Giants SB appearance(s) and I think the players on the team responded well to that.