Jail to the thief?

[Hawktawk]

https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-p ... lf-1550454
Stone was pardoned a few weeks ago. Now Flynn. Soon to be Manafort and who knows all else.

These are beyond the normal sketchy last minute pardons everyone does. These are the guys from his scandals, guys who lied for him, went to jail for him.Even Nixon had the sense not to pardon co conspirators which likely led the way for his pardon.
I know Biden has made clear he is not going to weaponize his justice department or direct them in any way but Trump's previous actions during the mueller probe and his impeachment inquiry coupled with these pardons are going to make it tough for the next AG to look the other way.

I heard a legal argument this morning that these pardons and anticipated future pardons are a continuation of an ongoing criminal act of obstructing justice. Then of course we know about all the SDNY stuff. The shills may want to believe Trump is fighting for them but he's fighting to save his arse from jail.
So should he be prosecuted or let go for the good of the country?Would it be good for the country however if the most corrupt x10 president ever skates with his middle finger held high? Is it the end of any presidential oversight whatsoever?

[NorthHawk]

Ideally that should be left to an impartial Justice Dept.
I hope Biden does that as a functioning free society demands a hands off approach to justice from politicians.
Having said that, Trump faces an investigation from the State of NY so there is no influence from the Feds in that case.
At least from a pardoning PoV.

[RiverDog]

There's nothing new here. Anyone else remember like I do some of Clinton's pardons in the closing days of his presidency? On his last day in office, Slick Willy issued a pardon to a sleazy fugitive from justice that left the country rather than face the music:

Congressman Barney Frank (a liberal Democrat) added, “It was a real betrayal by Bill Clinton of all who had been strongly supportive of him to do something this unjustified. It was contemptuous.”

Marc Rich was wanted for a list of charges going back decades. He had traded illegally with America’s enemies including Ayatollah Khomeini’s Iran, where he bought about $200 million worth of oil while revolutionaries allied with Khomeini held 53 American hostages in 1979.

Rich made a large part of his wealth, approximately $2 billion between 1979 and 1994, selling oil to the apartheid regime in South Africa when it faced a UN embargo. He did deals with Khadafy’s Libya, Milosevic’s Yugoslavia, Kim Il Sung’s North Korea, Communist dictatorships in Cuba and the Soviet Union itself. Little surprise that he was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List.

Facing prosecution by Rudy Giuliani in 1983, Rich fled to Switzerland and lived in exile.

What bothered so many was that Clinton’s clemency to Rich reeked of payoff. In the run-up to the presidential pardon, the financier’s ex-wife Denise had donated $450,000 to the fledgling Clinton Library and “over $1 million to Democratic campaigns in the Clinton era.”


https://nypost.com/2016/01/17/after-par ... f-friends/

They need to do something about lame duck pardons. Trump isn't the first one to abuse the practice and won't be the last.

[NorthHawk]

From what I've heard, the powers to pardon are pretty broad. It might have been better if the originators
had put in some type of guidelines as to how it was to be used but that was probably a time when it was
thought that "honorable gentlemen" wouldn't abuse it.

[RiverDog]

From what I've heard, the powers to pardon are pretty broad. It might have been better if the originators
had put in some type of guidelines as to how it was to be used but that was probably a time when it was
thought that "honorable gentlemen" wouldn't abuse it.

Very true. It was put there as a safety net to prevent a miscarriage of justice, and for the most part, presidents have done a fair job of managing it. But these lame duck periods are when it tends to be abused.

[Hawktawk]

There's nothing new here. Anyone else remember like I do some of Clinton's pardons in the closing days of his presidency? On his last day in office, Slick Willy issued a pardon to a sleazy fugitive from justice that left the country rather than face the music:

Congressman Barney Frank (a liberal Democrat) added, “It was a real betrayal by Bill Clinton of all who had been strongly supportive of him to do something this unjustified. It was contemptuous.”

Marc Rich was wanted for a list of charges going back decades. He had traded illegally with America’s enemies including Ayatollah Khomeini’s Iran, where he bought about $200 million worth of oil while revolutionaries allied with Khomeini held 53 American hostages in 1979.

Rich made a large part of his wealth, approximately $2 billion between 1979 and 1994, selling oil to the apartheid regime in South Africa when it faced a UN embargo. He did deals with Khadafy’s Libya, Milosevic’s Yugoslavia, Kim Il Sung’s North Korea, Communist dictatorships in Cuba and the Soviet Union itself. Little surprise that he was on the FBI’s Ten Most Wanted List.

Facing prosecution by Rudy Giuliani in 1983, Rich fled to Switzerland and lived in exile.

What bothered so many was that Clinton’s clemency to Rich reeked of payoff. In the run-up to the presidential pardon, the financier’s ex-wife Denise had donated $450,000 to the fledgling Clinton Library and “over $1 million to Democratic campaigns in the Clinton era.”




https://nypost.com/2016/01/17/after-par ... f-friends/

They need to do something about lame duck pardons. Trump isn't the first one to abuse the practice and won't be the last.

Marc Rich stunk to high heaven as did Bush commuting the sentence of Scooter Libby. Funny that Rudy Giuliani actually wanted to prosecute someone and now he is running interference for a president attempting to commit sedition.

But no this is quite different. This isn't a payoff for a campaign contribution although that should be illegal as well. These guys were material witnesses to Trump's own impeachable misconduct, all were evasive, many signed deals to cooperate then tried to back out. Manafort who will be next pardon was a double actor supposedly cooperating with Muller then turning around and sharing the Muller investigative track with the Trump legal team. He was described in the REPUBLICAN LED Senate intelligence report as having been "an extreme national security threat" and was the Trump campaign manager during the period of time he won the nomination.What is known of Stones actions and statements is that they implicate trump in perjury in written answers no less but he refused to give Trump up.

This is mobster style corruption in plain sight, a continuing national security breach with our greatest geopolitical foe bent on our demise which will be perpetuated indefinitely as these guys are all up to their eyeballs in eastern bloc skulduggery.And why would they change now?

I cannot believe with my eyes what i'm seeing in the united states of america. I'm about to pack up and head to lafayette square with a bullhorn.

[RiverDog]

But no this is quite different. This isn't a payoff for a campaign contribution although that should be illegal as well. These guys were material witnesses to Trump's own impeachable misconduct, all were evasive, many signed deals to cooperate then tried to back out.

Clinton pardoned Susan McDougall after she was convicted for failing to testify against Slick Willy in her role in the Whitewater scandal as well as fellow Democrat Dan Rostenkowski, former chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, for his role in the Congressional post office scandal. He pardoned former Democratic Congressman Mel Reynolds, who was convicted of obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. He even pardoned his own brother, Roger Clinton. He issued those pardons a few hours before he departed for the inauguration of the new POTUS and came from the same man that after his election in '92 said that his administration would be the most ethical ever.

All told, Slick Willy issued 140 pardons on his last day in office. It was chicken chit, as he timed it so that he could run away and hide while the press was preoccupied by the inauguration of the new POTUS and he wouldn't have to face the music in a Presidential news conference. Even Jimmy Carter called the Clinton pardons "disgraceful". It was that type of sleaze and corruption that was a big part of my refusal to vote for his old lady back in '16 despite being completely turned off by her opponent.

There are some very common threads between the lame duck pardons of Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. But my point wasn't who abused the power more. My point is that these types of unethical, lame duck pardons preceded Donald Trump. For all of the unprecedented things that Trump has done that has resulted in the lowering of the bar of acceptable behavior by a POTUS, abusing the ability to issue pardons isn't one of them. If you must get your briefs in a wad over the behavior of this petulant child, you can find a lot worse things than these inconsequential pardons that don't hurt a soul.

I cannot believe with my eyes what i'm seeing in the united states of america. I'm about to pack up and head to lafayette square with a bullhorn.

Would you please calm down! This is all coming to an end on Jan. 20th. You're acting like Trump got re-elected and that we're going to have to put up with this nonsense for another 4 years.

[Aseahawkfan]

If you don't realize how the wealthy and powerful in this nation are, then you haven't been paying attention.

Your guy Reagan had secret deals that were funding Salvadoran "rebels' that were killing school children. Bill Clinton made a deal with Serbians after they massacred 10,000 Bosnians in a village. Bush Jr. started two wars of a questionable nature. We conduct drone strikes with intelligence from foreign governments picking the targets. Barack Obama launched more drone assassinations than any president in history and made a deal with Iran that prevented them from developing nuclear missiles for 20 years, but still allowed them to use those fund to fund attacks against American soldiers. I guess that's all ok as long as its being done with the right person in office that you voted for and the party you support.

Crap like this has been happening for years. Your government is corrupt, Hawktawk. It is what it is. Maybe Trump will go to jail, maybe he won't.

Biden has to walk a fine line as I stated long ago. To get Trump, you have to get him on something you won't take down a whole lot of your own party with. Because in public you'll see the media listing all these charges and making all these accusations, but behind the scenes the Republican and Democrat power brokers are playing tit for tat. "You take down Trump for these charges. We've got lawyers in place to take down three of your Democrats for the same charges." The Democrats come right back, "If you take down our three Democrats, then we have these charges on four of your Republicans." So both sides negotiate behind the scenes to make sure they don't bring to light charges to the public that a bunch of Congress can be taken down for.

I watched this game back during the Clintons when a couple of Republicans were acting offended because Clinton had sex with Lewinsky. A few days later both Republican Senators had information released about their mistresses. They had to back off and start apologizing, then shut up. I realized then, when politicians take each other down it has to be the right charges and can't be something that can be used to take down multiple members of Congress or the various branches. Because then you start a pissing contest with both sides finding leaks and releasing information on the other group to embarrass and prosecute them.

So if they get Trump, they have to make sure there won't be severe retaliation. That's the game.

[Hawktawk]

Clinton pardoned Susan McDougall after she was convicted for failing to testify against Slick Willy in her role in the Whitewater scandal as well as fellow Democrat Dan Rostenkowski, former chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee, for his role in the Congressional post office scandal. He pardoned former Democratic Congressman Mel Reynolds, who was convicted of obstruction of justice and solicitation of child pornography. He even pardoned his own brother, Roger Clinton. He issued those pardons a few hours before he departed for the inauguration of the new POTUS and came from the same man that after his election in '92 said that his administration would be the most ethical ever.

All told, Slick Willy issued 140 pardons on his last day in office. It was chicken chit, as he timed it so that he could run away and hide while the press was preoccupied by the inauguration of the new POTUS and he wouldn't have to face the music in a Presidential news conference. Even Jimmy Carter called the Clinton pardons "disgraceful". It was that type of sleaze and corruption that was a big part of my refusal to vote for his old lady back in '16 despite being completely turned off by her opponent.

There are some very common threads between the lame duck pardons of Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. But my point wasn't who abused the power more. My point is that these types of unethical, lame duck pardons preceded Donald Trump. For all of the unprecedented things that Trump has done that has resulted in the lowering of the bar of acceptable behavior by a POTUS, abusing the ability to issue pardons isn't one of them. If you must get your briefs in a wad over the behavior of this petulant child, you can find a lot worse things than these inconsequential pardons that don't hurt a soul.

I cannot believe with my eyes what i'm seeing in the united states of america. I'm about to pack up and head to lafayette square with a bullhorn.

Would you please calm down! This is all coming to an end on Jan. 20th. You're acting like Trump got re-elected and that we're going to have to put up with this nonsense for another 4 years.

I've often said Clinton was when the modern media age presidential conduct jumped the shark and fair enough, I kind of had forgotten the extent of Clinton's pardons which did involve a brother who had committed his own misconduct and Susan McDougal who did time rather than testify. But again this was a failed land deal involving numerous people including the Clintons that somehow led to a president being impeached for lying about a bj. Trump is pardoning people who are part of his own conspiracy to subvert the american electoral process and for which he still faces federal and state legal jeopardy.

It affects us all when a president can flout the law while in office, abuse his official powers like this. It hurts 327 million souls. Why you are so flippant about it is a mystery, why any american would put up with a whining baby who hasn't conceded almost a month out, truly masking us a mockery to the world. And senators who will not acknowledge the President elects fair campaign and legitimate win to try to save the senate. Who had time to confirm a far right religious plant justice but the food lines are a mile long as are the test lines as this president golfs and stacks his defense dept and fantasizes about hitting Iran on the way out the door.

Goddam right I ought to be in lafayette square with a bullhorn and maybe a pitchfork with people lined up for miles behind me .

We are blind, sound asleep as a nation, even those who opposed trump truly do not get what's going on. We are a nation in precipitous decline when we will accept this from our *leaders*.

[RiverDog]

There are some very common threads between the lame duck pardons of Bill Clinton and Donald Trump. But my point wasn't who abused the power more. My point is that these types of unethical, lame duck pardons preceded Donald Trump. For all of the unprecedented things that Trump has done that has resulted in the lowering of the bar of acceptable behavior by a POTUS, abusing the ability to issue pardons isn't one of them. If you must get your briefs in a wad over the behavior of this petulant child, you can find a lot worse things than these inconsequential pardons that don't hurt a soul.

I've often said Clinton was when the modern media age presidential conduct jumped the shark and fair enough, I kind of had forgotten the extent of Clinton's pardons which did involve a brother who had committed his own misconduct and Susan McDougal who did time rather than testify. But again this was a failed land deal involving numerous people including the Clintons that somehow led to a president being impeached for lying about a bj. Trump is pardoning people who are part of his own conspiracy to subvert the american electoral process and for which he still faces federal and state legal jeopardy.

What I was hoping to show you was that while Trump's pardons are despicable, they are (1) not at all unprecedented and (2) completely inconsequential in the big picture. Clinton's pardons did nothing to jeopardize national security or cause any personal harm to anyone, nor will Trump's. I am one heck of a lot more concerned with Trump's cooperating with the transition than I am his pardons.

Why you are so flippant about it is a mystery...

I replied to a similar accusation of yours and neither you or Cbob bothered to respond or acknowledge it, so I don't see why I should waste my time repeating myself. It's on Page 2 of the Peaceful Transition thread if you're interested.

[c_hawkbob]

I didn't respond because I felt your response fell short of answering the question. "Well there's nothing I can do about it anyway" is not an answer to why it all seems OK with you, to the point that you expect it to be OK with everyone else too. I'm just not willing to commit pages of text to arguing the minutia of the matter so I let it go.

[RiverDog]

I didn't respond because I felt your response fell short of answering the question. "Well there's nothing I can do about it anyway" is not an answer to why it all seems OK with you, to the point that you expect it to be OK with everyone else too. I'm just not willing to commit pages of text to arguing the minutia of the matter so I let it go.

You had asked a question so I was expecting the courtesy of a response. Now that you've given it, I appreciate your acknowledgement.

Your interpretation of my POV is way over simplistic, but you're entitled to your opinion.

[c_hawkbob]

I'm sorry but over simplistic is what seems in order sometimes. As I said, and I've provided reasons behind it before, I just can't devote pages of text exploring minutia anymore. Your demands on my abilities to pound out paragraph after paragraph of coherent conversations are sometime beyond me.

[RiverDog]

I'm sorry but over simplistic is what seems in order sometimes. As I said, and I've provided reasons behind it before, I just can't devote pages of text exploring minutia anymore. Your demands on my abilities to pound out paragraph after paragraph of coherent conversations are sometime beyond me.

I wasn't asking you to go into more detail. All I said was that your statement was over simplistic. If you don't care to elaborate, then that's your business. But keep in mind that you're the one that had expressed interest in the genesis of my POV. I demanded nothing of you or anyone else. All I was asking for was an acknowledgement, which you have given and that I thank you for.

[Hawktawk]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... istan.html

Im worried about him leaving too. then there's this .https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ar-on-iran

Iran's top nuclear scientist is executed with B52s and now a carrier group having been ordered to the gulf previously. Iran blames Israel for the hit but with Pompeio having visited all the principals in the region last week the strategy to me is clear.

Provoke Iran in a way offensive enough to elicit a military response then you can give Trump and Israel their out the door war with Iran that can be handed off to Biden with the world already a powder keg. Its a long way to inauguration day.

[RiverDog]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8995003/US-deploys-USS-Nimitz-Persian-Gulf-cover-troops-leaving-Iraq-Afghanistan.html

Im worried about him leaving too. then there's this . Iran's top nuclear scientist is executed with B52s and now a carrier group having been ordered to the gulf previously. Iran blames Israel for the hit but with Pompeio having visited all the principals in the region last week the strategy to me is clear.

Iran's nuclear scientist was executed by B-52's? He was shot and killed while traveling in his car in an ambush carried out by gunman suspected to have ties to Israel. There is no evidence that the US military had anything to do with it. Where are you coming up with this stuff?

Provoke Iran in a way offensive enough to elicit a military response then you can give Trump and Israel their out the door war with Iran that can be handed off to Biden with the world already a powder keg. Its a long way to inauguration day.

The Nimitz was already being deployed to assist in the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

On Friday, CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr reported on Twitter that USS Nimitz was being moved back into the geostrategic Persian Gulf region along with two other war vessels to give combat support and air cover as American troops withdraw from Iraq and Afghanistan by January 15 under the incumbent president’s order.

https://meaww.com/donald-trump-pentagon ... ist-killed

[Hawktawk]

[quote="RiverDog"]

Iran's nuclear scientist was executed by B-52's? He was shot and killed while traveling in his car in an ambush carried out by gunman suspected to have ties to Israel. There is no evidence that the US military had anything to do with it. Where are you coming up with this stuff?



The Nimitz was already being deployed to assist in the withdrawal of troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.


I said he was assassinated and israel is suspected, in fact anonymous defense sources say it was israel. Pompeio visited last week, along with Saudi arabia and other US allies in the region.

Its reported widely that Trump is "pressing" for options to strike iran. Read my other link above. Its not normal to have a carrier group for a small troop withdrawal and to the degree it is is shows the stupidity and subservience to moscow of pulling them in the first place. Its also a bit unusual to have deployed the B52s as well.

These military moves are to be ready to hit iran...I hope Im wrong.

[RiverDog]

I said he was assassinated and israel is suspected, in fact anonymous defense sources say it was israel. Pompeio visited last week, along with Saudi arabia and other US allies in the region.

You said that he was assassinated by B-52's, but I take it that you misspoke.

Its reported widely that Trump is "pressing" for options to strike iran. Read my other link above. Its not normal to have a carrier group for a small troop withdrawal and to the degree it is is shows the stupidity and subservience to moscow of pulling them in the first place. Its also a bit unusual to have deployed the B52s as well.

These military moves are to be ready to hit iran...I hope Im wrong.

Staging an aircraft carrier battle group is a reasonable precaution, both for troop withdrawals and during a crisis like this one. It's not necessarily a prelude to war. Trump has yet to initiate a major military action.

Such is life in the Middle East. The biggest implication IMO is that It's going to complicate Biden's stated desire to restart negotiations into the Iran nuclear agreement.

[I-5]

Would you please calm down! This is all coming to an end on Jan. 20th.

That's what was predicted would happen on Nov 3, but here we are Dec 3 and still dealing with continuing repercusions from this president who shows zero care for the country outside of his immediate family and friends.

[RiverDog]

Would you please calm down! This is all coming to an end on Jan. 20th.

That's what was predicted would happen on Nov 3, but here we are Dec 3 and still dealing with continuing repercusions from this president who shows zero care for the country outside of his immediate family and friends.

Trump gave us a hint of how he was going to behave well before the election by insinuating that the only way he could lose was if the election was rigged. Although I didn't predict it, I see his behavior as no big surprise. To the contrary, it fits perfectly with his personality.

If Trump would come out and get behind the battle against the coronavirus, sign off on the relief legislation currently being negotiated in Congress, cooperate with Biden's team on the distribution of the vaccine, and do like our 3 former POTUS's have done recently and agree to take the vaccination and do what they can to convince the public that it's safe and effective, he could reclaim some of the damage he's done.

But don't hold your breath.

[I-5]

Trump is behaving exactly as expected...why change now? Unlike some here, I also predicted he wouldn't go quietly away, even after Jan 20. We're going to keep hearing and hearing and hearing from him.

I won't be surprised if he does run again in 2024, but I think it's even more likely he'll try to do something to sabotage Biden's presidency after Jan 20. I don't put this childish troll above anything.

[RiverDog]

Trump is behaving exactly as expected...why change now? Unlike some here, I also predicted he wouldn't go quietly away, even after Jan 20. We're going to keep hearing and hearing and hearing from him.

I won't be surprised if he does run again in 2024, but I think it's even more likely he'll try to do something to sabotage Biden's presidency after Jan 20. I don't put this childish troll above anything.

I was just wondering if Trump's highly illogical court challenges to the election have an ulterior motive: Fund raising. He's raised over $200 million since the election, which could go to his retiring of campaign debt. Next to his ego, money is everything to Trump, even if he's worth billions.

[c_hawkbob]

I can't wait to see the Trump name being taken off his towers as he has to relinquish them to settle debts. He may be worth billions with his property holding but liquidity is gonna become a huge problem very soon methinks. Deutsche Bank has been looking for a way to disassociate with him for years and I don't think once he's no longer Prez he's gonna have such great friends in Russia and Saudi Arabia (or much of anywhere hopefully). I'd rathe see him broke and ruined than in prison, though both would be better.

[RiverDog]

I can't wait to see the Trump name being taken off his towers as he has to relinquish them to settle debts. He may be worth billions with his property holding but liquidity is gonna become a huge problem very soon methinks. Deutsche Bank has been looking for a way to disassociate with him for years and I don't think once he's no longer Prez he's gonna have such great friends in Russia and Saudi Arabia (or much of anywhere hopefully). I'd rathe see him broke and ruined than in prison, though both would be better.

I don't give two hoots in hell about Trump himself. He could live out his life on the back nine or behind bars, it makes no difference to me personally. The only thing I worry about is his martyr status within his followers. I don't think it wise for his political opponents, certainly not the Democrats themselves, to be constantly pursuing him through the courts to exact some sort of revenge as that's sure to keep the pot stirred and the vitriol between both sides flowing.

I'm tired of this hate that's been all too present for way too long and it has manifested itself in the form of our coronavirus response. I'll agree to whatever it takes to put this all behind us, whether that means life in prison or life in the highest price cathouse for the orange baboon.

[Aseahawkfan]

I only see Trump going to jail or ruined if he doesn't have dirt on a lot of Democrats and help from Republican power brokers. I think the Republican power brokers might abandon him after he is out of office and let him fry. He made a lot of powerful people angry who have the money and influence to ruin him. Trump's style may win votes and be entertaining on reality TV, but it makes a lot of people in powerful positions angry and tired of his antics and yapping.

So he may go to jail or spend huge sums of money defending himself on top of his hotels doing lousy business due to his name and the COVID19. He may not have many people interested in loaning him money to sustain his businesses. He may go down after he leaves office.

[I-5]

I was just wondering if Trump's highly illogical court challenges to the election have an ulterior motive: Fund raising. He's raised over $200 million since the election, which could go to his retiring of campaign debt. Next to his ego, money is everything to Trump, even if he's worth billions.

At this point, I don’t think any wondering is necessary. It’s been mentioned ad nauseum that’s exactly what he’s doing...not that his cult cares. They’re too far invested to give up now, even if the so-called billionaire is pocketing their money

[RiverDog]

I was just wondering if Trump's highly illogical court challenges to the election have an ulterior motive: Fund raising. He's raised over $200 million since the election, which could go to his retiring of campaign debt. Next to his ego, money is everything to Trump, even if he's worth billions.

At this point, I don’t think any wondering is necessary. It’s been mentioned ad nauseum that’s exactly what he’s doing...not that his cult cares. They’re too far invested to give up now, even if the so-called billionaire is pocketing their money

They all become a moot point after this Tuesday when the safe harbor deadline passes.

[Aseahawkfan]

They all become a moot point after this Tuesday when the safe harbor deadline passes.

Unless some faithless electors decide to play some games on December 14th. You'll be looking to December 8th, the majority of people will be looking to see if the crazy reaches the electoral college on December 14th.

[RiverDog]

They all become a moot point after this Tuesday when the safe harbor deadline passes.

Unless some faithless electors decide to play some games on December 14th. You'll be looking to December 8th, the majority of people will be looking to see if the crazy reaches the electoral college on December 14th.

I haven't checked to see how many or if it's enough to guarantee that Biden gets 270, but most states have laws that require their electors to cast their votes as directed, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that states have that right. I also believe that the states can negate a vote by an elector that isn't cast as directed, but I'm not sure.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/ou ... -electors/

States can require Electoral College voters to back the victor of their state’s popular vote, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously on Monday, in a major dispute that could have an impact on November’s presidential contest.

Kagan wrote that the Constitution gives states “broad power over electors” and “electors themselves no rights.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/06/supreme ... -vote.html

[Aseahawkfan]

I haven't checked to see how many or if it's enough to guarantee that Biden gets 270, but most states have laws that require their electors to cast their votes as directed, and the Supreme Court has affirmed that states have that right. I also believe that the states can negate a vote by an elector that isn't cast as directed, but I'm not sure.

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/ou ... -electors/

States can require Electoral College voters to back the victor of their state’s popular vote, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously on Monday, in a major dispute that could have an impact on November’s presidential contest.

Kagan wrote that the Constitution gives states “broad power over electors” and “electors themselves no rights.”

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/06/supreme ... -vote.html

We know that. And things should go off as planned. In Trump Land there has been a push to have the electors "fix" the "fraudulent" election outcome. Some Trump sycophants want to see faithless electors vote in Trump even if it causes a major Civil War and heavy disruption of America.

I believe it is unlikely to happen. But I also know there are a lot of Trump sycophants who are watching the electoral vote closely awaiting the clarion call of revolution as some of their own stand up for Trump's America against the evil Democrats and their liberal, socialist, America hating ways. Remember, this isn't normal time where even a Republican president leaves office according to plan and everything after the election is a formality. This is Trump time where not electing Trump is going to destroy America and his loyal sycophants are awaiting the call to revolution to "save" the nation because Biden and his socialists are going to take our gun rights, freedoms, and turn America into a white man hating liberal cesspool.

This is the kind of crap I have to listen to right now. I just bite my tongue. I literally have friends telling me Biden stands for a hopeless, tyrannical America and Trump was a hopeful America where the people loved the nation. Didn't matter to them one bit that Trump attitudes and policies sowed chaos in this nation and he handled the coronavirus terribly. They rationalize everything as the Democrats fault no matter what Trump does. It's pretty insane.

They're like the people that rationalize everything as Trump's fault, but the opposite side. It's why I can't wait for Trump to be gone. I hope the cloud lifts off these people's minds and they reach a point of being somewhat rational again where one man isn't the doom or hope of the nation. It's ridiculous. He's one narcissistic asshat former reality TV star and somehow he's become this polarizing figure that will either uplift America or destroy it. I'm sorry. I don't buy it. He's just some rich a-hole who retired to the presidency with powerful ability to sell himself as a powerful figure, which he is not. I don't know how so many decent people have fallen for it the haters and the lovers of this narcissistic salesman.

America is bigger than Trump or any one man. Always has been, always will be.

[I-5]

They all become a moot point after this Tuesday when the safe harbor deadline passes.

Moot point or not after Tuesday, I don't think the noise is going to fade away anytime soon. Trump is going to find a way to stay in the news, and the republican power players like Cruz, Graham, McConnell, and Rubio that we've heard predicted here would jump ship, will still be too scared of Trump's cult to push back. I'm not worried about the electoral college or anything stopping Biden from becoming the new president. My point is things will never calm down or get to any semblancy of normality that I think we all would hope for and some believe is coming. We crossed that line with this president, and there is no going back.

Just by Trump threatening to run again in 2024 (whether or not he's even serious doesn't really matter), he still controls the narrative within the GOP, and he won't want to relinquish it unless he gets some kind of satisfaction from it. He a troll and a child, but he does understand that game.

[RiverDog]

They all become a moot point after this Tuesday when the safe harbor deadline passes.

Moot point or not after Tuesday, I don't think the noise is going to fade away anytime soon. Trump is going to find a way to stay in the news, and the republican power players like Cruz, Graham, McConnell, and Rubio that we've heard predicted here would jump ship, will still be too scared of Trump's cult to push back. I'm not worried about the electoral college or anything stopping Biden from becoming the new president. My point is things will never calm down or get to any semblancy of normality that I think we all would hope for and some believe is coming. We crossed that line with this president, and there is no going back.

Just by Trump threatening to run again in 2024 (whether or not he's even serious doesn't really matter), he still controls the narrative within the GOP, and he won't want to relinquish it unless he gets some kind of satisfaction from it. He a troll and a child, but he does understand that game.

That's why I think it would be very unwise for the Democrats to pursue him through the courts as all it will do is keep him in the news, keep him relevant, keep the pot stirred up. As time goes on, that cult should begin to fade, or at least that's my sense.

We'll see what happens to the Republican party once Trump is gone. I don't expect any of them to come out and openly disassociate themselves with Trump for the reasons you cite, but there won't be any need for them to take their marching orders from him, either. They won't need Trump to tell them what to do on those issues that appeal most to his core supporters, ie the 2nd amendment, abortion, taxes, government intrusion.

[Hawktawk]

I was of the mind election eve that Biden should pardon Trump if he had behaved in a reasonably patriotic american fashion like every losing candidate in history and conceded and pulled together for the good of america in crisis. Biden has made it clear he has no interest in pursuing Trump personally but Trump is making it impossible to ignore his treasonous actions. He's already got his people in the streets with long guns threatening election officials and legislators of his own party. Hes spreading lies about our very democracy. That behavior and his unwillingness to share pentagon transition info with Biden and utterly abdicating his job regarding leadership of this pandemic is as criminal an act as anything he's done before. This SOB should be hunted down and dispatched like Gadaffi or Saddam Hussein at this point . The racist thugs who still support his fight are not going to change.They support at this point a failed despot doing heretofore inconceivable things to truly overturn the will of 80 million americans.People including fox opinion hosts and even recently pardoned Mike Flynn have openly advocated Trump declaring martial law and ordering a revote. This isn't funny anymore. its truly chilling, taking america to the brink at a horrible time.

I think he and his followers need to learn a hard lesson. Lock his ass up. He'd face a firing squad at this point for sedition if it was my call and as I said pre election I was for Biden pardoning the MF no matter how much I hate him for the sake of unity. With a trump party some remnant of will always exist there will be no unity so we should just take out the trash and deal with the consequences. Lock up the armed trumpanzees in the streets menacing great american patriots too.

I've HAD IT with the Trump party assault on america. If they wanna go to war over it fine.They underestimated the never trump people before and they better not do it again.

[I-5]

That's why I think it would be very unwise for the Democrats to pursue him through the courts as all it will do is keep him in the news, keep him relevant, keep the pot stirred up. As time goes on, that cult should begin to fade, or at least that's my sense.

Couldn’t possibly disagree with you more on that strategy. As I said, Trump will continue trying to get attention regardless of whether he’s pursued through the courts. I keep hearing he’s going to fade after losing. Not by design he won’t. He remains the leading (loudest) voice of the party, and by teasing a 2024 run, shows his intention to not give up the spotlight even one iota. Today’s republican party is a joke because of this joker, and the longer he stays in the picture, the lower their standing. I don’t see it ending because I don’t see any big republican names except Romney going against him. They’re all scared of his cult. I love it.

Regardless of party or politics, his company is under serious investigation by the Southern District of New York for fraud, tax evasion, and more. If proven, these are crimes that must be paid. Democrats don’t get to decide what the AG of New York does, anyway. I want to see how Trump handles his new world without presidential protections - it will be interesting to see.

[RiverDog]

That's why I think it would be very unwise for the Democrats to pursue him through the courts as all it will do is keep him in the news, keep him relevant, keep the pot stirred up. As time goes on, that cult should begin to fade, or at least that's my sense.

Couldn’t possibly disagree with you more on that strategy. As I said, Trump will continue trying to get attention regardless of whether he’s pursued through the courts. I keep hearing he’s going to fade after losing. Not by design he won’t. He remains the leading (loudest) voice of the party, and by teasing a 2024 run, shows his intention to not give up the spotlight even one iota. Today’s republican party is a joke because of this joker, and the longer he stays in the picture, the lower their standing. I don’t see it ending because I don’t see any big republican names except Romney going against him. They’re all scared of his cult. I love it.

Regardless of party or politics, his company is under serious investigation by the Southern District of New York for fraud, tax evasion, and more. If proven, these are crimes that must be paid. Democrats don’t get to decide what the AG of New York does, anyway. I want to see how Trump handles his new world without presidential protections - it will be interesting to see.

Then let SDNY do the dirty work. The Dems have more important things on their agenda, especially if they win the Senate and become the ruling party. The last thing Biden needs to do is get embroiled in something like an investigation into his opponents losing campaign.

At this point, I want Biden focused on one thing and one thing only: End the pandemic and it's associated economic effects. He can save lives and restore economic security by doing so. All pursuing Trump would do would be to satisfy the blood thirst of a small fraction of the populace. It's not going to keep a single person's loved one from a date with the undertaker or put any out of work citizen back on a payroll.

[I-5]

The last thing Biden needs to do is get embroiled in something like an investigation into his opponents losing campaign.

What investigation are you talking about? Did Biden make an announcement he’s coming after Trump?

He is completely focused on the pandemic and other issues of governance, like putting together a competent cabinet. I haven’t seen any silly pronouncements regarding Trump.

[RiverDog]

What investigation are you talking about? Did Biden make an announcement he’s coming after Trump?

Here:

A New Jersey Democrat is calling for the Justice Department to investigate the entire Trump administration upon President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration in January.

In a fiery statement Tuesday, Rep. Bill Pascrell (D-N.J.) called for President Trump and other top members of his administration to be "tried for their crimes against our nation and Constitution," adding that the president himself had engaged in "treason."

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/5264 ... nistration

To my knowledge, Biden has not made an announcement that he's going after Trump. I never said that he did.

He is completely focused on the pandemic and other issues of governance, like putting together a competent cabinet. I haven’t seen any silly pronouncements regarding Trump.

I never said he wasn't. What I said was that I want him to focus on nothing but the pandemic and not to cave in to pressure from Democrats like that goon ball from NJ. To Biden's great credit, he has resisted the urging of some members of his party and I like the way he's gone about putting together his cabinet, including his expected appointment to Secretary of Defense.

[I-5]

I never said he wasn't. What I said was that I want him to focus on nothing but the pandemic and not to cave in to pressure from Democrats like that goon ball from NJ. To Biden's great credit, he has resisted the urging of some members of his party and I like the way he's gone about putting together his cabinet, including his expected appointment to Secretary of Defense.

Democrats (and republicans, and all citizens) can and should say whatever they want to say about Trump...because he earned it. Don't ever try to appease him and hope he'll go away, because he won't.

Joe is focused on his job - that's a totally different story. Both can happen.

[RiverDog]

I never said he wasn't. What I said was that I want him to focus on nothing but the pandemic and not to cave in to pressure from Democrats like that goon ball from NJ. To Biden's great credit, he has resisted the urging of some members of his party and I like the way he's gone about putting together his cabinet, including his expected appointment to Secretary of Defense.

Democrats (and republicans, and all citizens) can and should say whatever they want to say about Trump...because he earned it. Don't ever try to appease him and hope he'll go away, because he won't.

Joe is focused on his job - that's a totally different story. Both can happen.

I disagree that it's a different story. Joe has one heck of a sales job ahead of him if we are to get to a 75% vaccination rate and patch together an economic recovery plan. A distraction like his going after Trump would compromise his message. He needs to look presidential, stay on task and above the fray.

[I-5]

I disagree that it's a different story. Joe has one heck of a sales job ahead of him if we are to get to a 75% vaccination rate and patch together an economic recovery plan. A distraction like his going after Trump would compromise his message. He needs to look presidential, stay on task and above the fray.

Can you give an example of how Joe is distracted? There will always be noise around you when you're POTUS, that can't be stopped nor should it. I don't see any distraction from him whatsoever.