The Capitol Takeover

[RiverDog]

First of all, this riot isn't over yet. Unfortunately, I expect it to get ugly. My only explanation is that they are trying to avoid a spectacle. Second of all, this has a long ways to go before we get to 100 consecutive days of rioting in dozens of cities like we saw this summer.

Your responses unbelievable to the point of being funny. Reminds me of that meme of a person sitting at a table, drinking a cup of coffee, while flames are shooting up on all sides and on the ceiling, saying 'I'm fine'.

Goodbye for a couple of days!

[I-5]

Although it will likely get tested in court, there is nothing in the Constitution preventing Congress from impeaching a former POTUS. They can do it either before or after the new Senate is seated.

Also, one of those Senator-elects takes office immediately as the incumbent was an appointee.

I don't see how that fixes the current problem we have now. A mentally unstable president endangering the country.

[c_hawkbob]

BREAKING: Pro-Trump demonstrators have massed outside statehouses across the country, forcing evacuations in at least two states.

https://www.wpsdlocal6.com/news/the-lat ... nIdonpRJbY

[RiverDog]

Although it will likely get tested in court, there is nothing in the Constitution preventing Congress from impeaching a former POTUS. They can do it either before or after the new Senate is seated.

Also, one of those Senator-elects takes office immediately as the incumbent was an appointee.

I don't see how that fixes the current problem we have now. A mentally unstable president endangering the country.

Sorry about my previous reaction.

It doesn't. But I know of no other legal resolution. Do you?

[Aseahawkfan]

This has been building for years. There is a large and growing group that is unhappy with how this nation is run and it keeps getting ignored, glossed over, made excuses for, and so on. And now here we are. The Republicans have been dealing with this splinter faction since the militias in the 90s, maybe earlier but I didn't follow much earlier than that. This splinter faction in the Republican Party has now grown even larger and is now assaulting the capitol. They often refer to themselves as Libertarians or Constitutionalists. They have been pushing for revolution for years. I guess Trump gave them their reason. Here they are assaulting the capitol.

I just feel like once again people are going to ignore this group, try to suppress them, and try to silence and ignore them as they've been trying to do for years, yet they keep coming back and seemingly growing stronger with each iteration.

Maybe we are headed for a true revolution and division of the United States. I'm not sure how long these two sides can co-exist and attempt to ignore, insult, and treat each other like garbage. We might be reaching the 5% to 10% needed to launch a legitimate revolution including the necessary state divisions to do so.

But hopefully with Trump gone soon, maybe this will be the peak rather than a growing revolutionary movement. Time will tell.

Now I wonder if Trump after leaving office delegitimizing Biden as president to a good portion of the nation may be setting himself up as a secessionist leader looking to push some states to secede and form a separate union. He does want to be on Mount Rushmore. If he led a revolutionary movement, he would definitely be remembered. He would love that.

Maybe I underestimated what Trump wants to do after he leaves office. Starting a revolution would make him one of the most memorable political figures in American history whether or not he was successful.

[RiverDog]

They've declared the Capitol building secure. The debate on the electoral vote count is supposedly resuming.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto ... p-75096299

[I-5]

I know of no other legal resolution. Do you?

Impeachment is one. That obviously didn't work.

The other is the25th Amendment to the Constitution, which we all know states the president’s cabinet may transfer the powers of the president to the vice president if he becomes incapacitate, or as determined by a majority vote of the cabinet. If the president challenges this decision, Congress determines whether to restore the president to power. In the absence of a two-thirds vote in both houses, the president returns to power. This will only work if the current cowards in government are able to see the forest for the trees.

So the cabinet could elect to remove him, but if Trump resists, which he would, it would fall to congress again. How much faith do we have in that body now?

[Aseahawkfan]

Sorry about my previous reaction.

It doesn't. But I know of no other legal resolution. Do you?

On a side not, notice the hypocrisy by the Democrats and their supporters when protesters took over City Hall and six blocks in Seattle or tore up Portland.

There is a part of me that can't help but enjoy seeing their house torn up when they did nothing while Seattle was getting torn up and occupied.

[I-5]

You're starting to sound crazy asf. It's not anyone's house. It's the US Capitol.

I was never for violence of any kind at any time, as I've said MULTIPLE times. If you don't want to listen, that's your issue.

So you don't see any hypocricy on your end, huh?

[RiverDog]

I know of no other legal resolution. Do you?

Impeachment is one. That obviously didn't work.

Are you asking what we should have done or what we should do now?

The other is the25th Amendment to the Constitution, which we all know states the president’s cabinet may transfer the powers of the president to the vice president if he becomes incapacitate, or as determined by a majority vote of the cabinet. If the president challenges this decision, Congress determines whether to restore the president to power. In the absence of a two-thirds vote in both houses, the president returns to power. This will only work if the current cowards in government are able to see the forest for the trees.

I'm not familiar with the exact mechanics of the 25th, but I do know that it takes 50% of the cabinet. My guess is that it can't be done in 13 days.

[Aseahawkfan]

They've declared the Capitol building secure. The debate on the electoral vote count is supposedly resuming.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto ... p-75096299

I didn't think it would take too long and it wouldn't require machine guns.

[I-5]

Are you asking what we should have done or what we should do now?

Not asking you, so much as saying we've been there already, and we saw the result. It didn't work because clearly, the Senate chose not to convict. My understanding is that impeachment needs more than a simple majority to remove a president.

[RiverDog]

On a side not, notice the hypocrisy by the Democrats and their supporters when protesters took over City Hall and six blocks in Seattle or tore up Portland.

There is a part of me that can't help but enjoy seeing their house torn up when they did nothing while Seattle was getting torn up and occupied.

I agree that it is hypocrisy for Dems/libs that were tolerant of the riots this summer (not pointing to any forum members), but there is no comparison between the take-over of a few blocks in a city and the take-over of the Capitol of the United States and trying to prevent a Constitutional exercise.

[RiverDog]

Are you asking what we should have done or what we should do now?

Not asking you, so much as saying we've been there already, and we saw the result. It didn't work because clearly, the Senate chose not to convict. My understanding is that impeachment needs more than a simple majority to remove a president.

Obviously the circumstances have changed. I don't know if it will go anywhere, but it needs to be looked at. An impeachment will leave a lasting historical mark greater than that of a criminal trial. Something has to be done to counter balance this ugly incident and Trump's role in it.

[RiverDog]

I heard that Twitter just locked Trump's account:

https://www.engadget.com/twitter-donald ... 18443.html

[RiverDog]

They've declared the Capitol building secure. The debate on the electoral vote count is supposedly resuming.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireSto ... p-75096299

I didn't think it would take too long and it wouldn't require machine guns.

It's not over yet. The building itself is secured, but the grounds and the rest of the mall still have thousands of protesters.

[Aseahawkfan]

It's not over yet. The building itself is secured, but the grounds and the rest of the mall still have thousands of protesters.

I'm not going to freak out about it again. It will be over at some point. I don't see state militias arming up for revolution. Already went through my freak out period a few weeks back when you were saying December 8th. Apparently January 6th got here and protests are strong. It looks like this date was the more important date, eh?

Remember this thread?

https://www.hawkshack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3821

Well here is the question again? What are you going to do Riverdog if there is a revolution? Still too hypothetical at the moment?

Sorry, not freaking out again. Going to stay calm through this. Calmness, calm, relax.

[RiverDog]

It's not over yet. The building itself is secured, but the grounds and the rest of the mall still have thousands of protesters.

I'm not going to freak out about it again. It will be over at some point. I don't see state militias arming up for revolution. Already went through my freak out period a few weeks back when you were saying December 8th. Apparently January 6th got here and protests are strong. It looks like this date was the more important date, eh?

Remember this thread?

https://www.hawkshack.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3821

Well here is the question again? What are you going to do Riverdog if there is a revolution? Still too hypothetical at the moment?

Sorry, not freaking out again. Going to stay calm through this. Calmness, calm, relax.

I was speaking Constitutionally.

The violence we've seen today could have broken out at any given time. But I'll readily admit that I misjudged the situation. Like every one of us in here, I've been right about some things, wrong about others.

I haven't seen any violence outside of what we're seeing at the Capitol. If anyone else has, I'd appreciate a link.

[RiverDog]

Here's one of the things that needs to happen:

Both Trump-picked US attorneys in Ohio vow to prosecute any from state who stormed Capitol

Two U.S. attorneys appointed to watch over Ohio by President Donald Trump have pledged to prosecute Ohioans caught storming the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

"Make no mistake ... Federal crimes were committed today at our nation’s Capitol building," U.S. Attorney David DeVillers tweeted Wednesday afternoon. "Anyone who traveled from the Southern District of Ohio with the intent to commit such crimes will be prosecuted in the Southern District of Ohio."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/202 ... 572500002/

[Aseahawkfan]

I was speaking Constitutionally.

The violence we've seen today could have broken out at any given time. But I'll readily admit that I misjudged the situation. Like every one of us in here, I've been right about some things, wrong about others.

I haven't seen any violence outside of what we're seeing at the Capitol. If anyone else has, I'd appreciate a link.

Let's hope this crap dies with Trump.

Not sure it will as I've seen this movement building for going on two decades, but maybe it will at least go back to normal levels after Trump is gone. Who can say.

I know there are a lot of Americans who want a revolution against the liberal Democratic movement and a splinter faction within the Republican Party has been growing in power seating more and more politicians. Trump is the first president that this splinter faction in the Republican Party put into power. Will he be the last? Time will tell. This splinter group in the Republican Party hates Democrats and even hates what they call R.I.N.O.s. They seem to be getting stronger, not weaker.

[Aseahawkfan]

Here's one of the things that needs to happen:

Both Trump-picked US attorneys in Ohio vow to prosecute any from state who stormed Capitol

Two U.S. attorneys appointed to watch over Ohio by President Donald Trump have pledged to prosecute Ohioans caught storming the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday.

"Make no mistake ... Federal crimes were committed today at our nation’s Capitol building," U.S. Attorney David DeVillers tweeted Wednesday afternoon. "Anyone who traveled from the Southern District of Ohio with the intent to commit such crimes will be prosecuted in the Southern District of Ohio."

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/202 ... 572500002/

Revolutionaries were prosecuted by the British Government. Doesn't much matter if the mainstream Democrat and Republican Party keep ignoring this growing revolutionary movement's concerns. Just like Washington State's government keeps ignoring the concerns of people in Eastern Washington.

[Hawktawk]

On a side not, notice the hypocrisy by the Democrats and their supporters when protesters took over City Hall and six blocks in Seattle or tore up Portland.

There is a part of me that can't help but enjoy seeing their house torn up when they did nothing while Seattle was getting torn up and occupied.

Can we stop? That's the go to trumpanzee response all over social media.

Lets think this over. Blacks and whites protesting police brutality and the killing of black men vs a fascist president giving his psychotic backers an hour long speech, telling them to march on the capitol into the streets. Giuliani advocating violence directly from the podium prior to trump's remarks. Ill take antifa any day over this. Socialism not so bad compared to this.At least BLM had a legitimate reason to protest. you keep talking about revolution. THEY FING LOST. They have NOTHING to protest and if they did it should be trump who has screwed them completely, destroyed the party.

Nobody liked the stuff in the inner city cesspools but there were plenty of white supremacists in those riots keeping those fights going hoping the longer they went the better chance dear leader would have in november. MOF more white supremacists were arrested in these riots than BLM or Antifa over the year because they are much more violent.
Couple it with the president's fascist statements and actions those people aren't ever going to leave. If the baboon had won they would have been in the streets for 4 more years.. I notice today the Kenosha police department was absolved of blame in the shooting of Jacob Blake. There's been anger but I've heard of no rioting so far. weird....

There is ZERO comparison here. Sad if anyone is enjoying it honestly.There a woman dead shot in the capitol There's attempted sedition by the POTUS loser.

At least Twitter finally locked him out for 12 hours and if he doesn't remove his last 3 tweets he will be banned. Even they get it now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/nationa ... ition.html

Heres the business world take. 25th amendment where have I heard this before.

[Aseahawkfan]

Cann we stop? That's the go to trumpanzee response all over social media.

Lets think this over. Blacks and whites protesting police brutality and the killing of black men vs a fascist president giving his psychotic backers an hour long speech, telling them to march on the capitol into the streets. Giuliani advocating violence directly from the podium prior to trump's remarks. Ill take antifa any day over this. Socialism not so bad compared to this.At least BLM had a legitimate reason to protest. you keep talking about revolution. THEY FING LOST. They have NOTHING to protest and if they did it should be trump who has screwed them completely, destroyed the party.

Nobody liked the stuff in the inner city cesspools but there were plenty of white supremacists in those riots keeping those fights going hoping the longer they went the better chance dear leader would have in november. MOF more white supremacists were arrested in these riots than BLM or Antifa over the year because they are much more violent.
Couple it with the president's fascist statements and actions those people aren't ever going to leave. If the baboon had won they would have been in the streets for 4 more years.. I notice today the Kenosha police department was absolved of blame in the shooting of Jacob Blake. There's been anger but I've heard of no rioting so far. weird....

There is ZERO comparison here. Sad if anyone is enjoying it honestly.There a woman dead shot in the capitol There's attempted sedition by the POTUS loser.

At least Twitter finally locked him out for 12 hours and if he doesn't remove his last 3 tweets he will be banned. Even they get it now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/06/nationa ... ition.html

Heres the business world take. 25th amendment where have I heard this before.

Trumpanzee? Eh. You prove my point right there. What do you think a Trumpanzee thinks of your comments? Fighting words.

Once again putting your own concerns other others and making it seem reasonable. Sorry guy. Taking over six city blocks and city hall if is what it is. You don't get to pick and choose what is right. There was someone murdered when the city blocks were taken over.

Thus the problem. People deciding what concerns are important and what aren't based on your political bias.

Keep it up. But be very prepared to fight for what you believe in with more than words because the other side is most assuredly seems to be arming up for more than talk.

They've reached a point where they are willing to attack the capitol with all the mainstream corporate and government usual talking heads telling them to calm down and their concerns don't matter. Seems to work real well.

[RiverDog]

Revolutionaries were prosecuted by the British Government. Doesn't much matter if the mainstream Democrat and Republican Party keep ignoring this growing revolutionary movement's concerns. Just like Washington State's government keeps ignoring the concerns of people in Eastern Washington.

I agree that we need to be listening to the Trump supporters just as people were saying that we need to listen to what blacks are telling us. Just like the fact that the vast majority of BLM protesters were non violent, the vast majority of Trump supporters are non violent. Even the reporters on the ground this afternoon were saying that this crowd was much different than the pro Trump protests they had seen before. These were anarchists, no less than those that took over CHAZ in Seattle.

But for the time being, these violent protesters, and even the non violent ones that entered the Capitol with them, if they can be positively identified, need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, the same thing that should have happened in the riots this summer.

Going forward, we need to look at ALL of these mass gatherings, whether they be BLM or MAGA, and agree on how we are going to keep them from turning violent. Strick limits on how many participants are allowed. Specific times of days. Specific routes. I'm sick and tired of all of this hate.

[Aseahawkfan]

The smart move would be to impeach Trump to ensure he can't run in 2024 or ever again. I imagine with a Democrat Senate, they will vote to impeach and remove even after he has left to ensure he's kept out of running for office again.

Trump needs to not come close to the White House again.

[RiverDog]

The smart move would be to impeach Trump to ensure he can't run in 2024 or ever again. I imagine with a Democrat Senate, they will vote to impeach and remove even after he has left to ensure he's kept out of running for office again.

Trump needs to not come close to the White House again.

Which is EXACTLY what I have been saying.

Not only will a successful impeachment prevent him from ever holding office again, it will provide a good historical account of the aftermath of what we saw today. There needs to be something to balance out these events, and a clear rebuke of Trump is the only thing that will suffice.

[I-5]

I'm ALL for impeaching him to ensure he never ever runs again.

However, he also needs to be removed IMMEDIATELY. Not Jan 20, but NOW.

Looks like the cabinet secretaries might be discussing that just now, based on some reports:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/trump-cabinet-members-discuss-25th-amendment-cbsnews-special-report-2021-01-06/?fbclid=IwAR0CS3MHYTYgstHObdejWEAilhjVnvbgr0o9gQJ4aOjZw1gO2D4-z-6yQlU

[RiverDog]

I'm ALL for impeaching him to ensure he never ever runs again.

However, he also needs to be removed IMMEDIATELY. Not Jan 20, but NOW.

Looks like the cabinet secretaries might be discussing that just now, based on some reports:

https://www.cbsnews.com/video/trump-cabinet-members-discuss-25th-amendment-cbsnews-special-report-2021-01-06/?fbclid=IwAR0CS3MHYTYgstHObdejWEAilhjVnvbgr0o9gQJ4aOjZw1gO2D4-z-6yQlU

IF they can get the cabinet members to agree, of course, I would, too. But I'm extremely skeptical.

[I-5]

Good, then we're even on the skepticism.

[Aseahawkfan]

I agree that we need to be listening to the Trump supporters just as people were saying that we need to listen to what blacks are telling us. Just like the fact that the vast majority of BLM protesters were non violent, the vast majority of Trump supporters are non violent. Even the reporters on the ground this afternoon were saying that this crowd was much different than the pro Trump protests they had seen before. These were anarchists, no less than those that took over CHAZ in Seattle.

But for the time being, these violent protesters, and even the non violent ones that entered the Capitol with them, if they can be positively identified, need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, the same thing that should have happened in the riots this summer.

Going forward, we need to look at ALL of these mass gatherings, whether they be BLM or MAGA, and agree on how we are going to keep them from turning violent. Strick limits on how many participants are allowed. Specific times of days. Specific routes. I'm sick and tired of all of this hate.

They did eventually prosecute the biggest criminals in the Seattle riots. Seattle still looks terrible with all the graffitied plywood and the like. It's been quiet here compared to Portland.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done with the rest. We have a fundamental disagreement about how things should run in America. Not sure how you fix that.

I don't know about you but I even look at the posters on this forum.

I was reading Northhawk describing Trump supporters as uneducated basically calling them dumb.

Hawktawk hates Trump supporters and calls them names all the time. I wonder if he does this to his Trump support friends face to face or just uses this forum to vent his frustration as he probably can't do it so much with people he knows.

c-bob sounds like he barely talks to Republicans or Trump supporters. Doesn't know or care what they think. Just dismisses them like they're nothing.

I5 at least shows some understanding of them, even though he disagrees with them.

I talk with Trump supporters and hardcore conservatives all the time since nearly all my friends and family are Trump supporters or very conservative. All I hear from them is how much they despise the Democrats who are going to take their guns away, hate white people, want to make us socialist, and in general hate America. Some of the first texts I received were, "Where we going to move now? The Democrats took the Senate. We're going socialist." These people are firmly convinced, basically as convinced as Hawktawk is about Trump, that the Democrats are going to destroy America and turn us into a socialist nation.

When I hear Hawktawk or C-bob or I5, it's like listening to the liberal mirror image of my buddies and family save insert "Democrat" for Trump or Republican.

That's what I get to listen to right now off the forum. I read the liberal side on here since I get the conservative take off the forum.

These sides really don't like each other. Maybe it will get better when Trump leaves, who knows. All I know for certain is we're one crazy leader away from a revolution and I know for certain the right wing, conservative, and Republican side has some strong revolutionary groups within them waiting for the right leader to step up and call them to action. I was even getting texts right after the election that they were waiting for the call to revolution. I thought that was crazy as crap until I saw this today. I guess we're closer than I ever thought we were.

At this point I would be stupid not to prepare for the possibility of a violent revolution within my lifetime. Pretty sad.

[I-5]

Here's the difference ASF. None of us that I've read on this forum condone violence of any form. If I cheered on the Seattle or Portland protests, please cut and paste my comment here.

What do your Trump loving friends think of the riots - yes riots - at the US Capitol today? You commented earlier today that you enjoyed it.

I'm tired of attempts at false equivalencies. There is no equivalence to what we saw today, and the traitor President who is egged them on and STILL is lying about the election. I want him gone by tomorrow.

[RiverDog]

They did eventually prosecute the biggest criminals in the Seattle riots. Seattle still looks terrible with all the graffitied plywood and the like. It's been quiet here compared to Portland.

I'm not sure there is much that can be done with the rest. We have a fundamental disagreement about how things should run in America. Not sure how you fix that.

You're not going to fix the problems that the hard core Trump supporters have with the country anymore than you're going to fix the problems that hard core BLM has with policing. All I am saying is the same thing so many people have been telling us about BLM: We need to listen.

There were 74 million people, 47%, that voted for Trump...and that doesn't include people like me that voted for Biden not because they supported him or his policies, but only due to the sole fact that he wasn't Donald Trump. You can't just tell them "You lost the election, now sit down and STFU!" and expect everything to get back to normal.

I wish Mack would come back in here and throw in his two cents worth. I've met him in person, and he's an educated, rational person, a Gen X'er, that voted for Trump and gave a brief explanation why he voted the way he did. Perhaps he could contribute to a greater understanding for us regulars in this forum. I get the sense that he's a bit afraid to come in here and speak his peace after seeing how we...and I include myself in that...ran off Idahawkman and burrton, not only from this forum, but from the larger Shack.

I think that Biden might be up to the task of recognizing this reality of the divisions we face, or at least he's been saying the right things. We'll see.

[RiverDog]

More developments: Perhaps the biggest Trump butt kisser, Lindsey Graham, said emphatically that the election is over and that Joe Biden is the legitimately elected POTUS:

“When it’s over, it’s over,” Graham said. “Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are lawfully elected and will become the president and vice president of the United States on January the 20th.”

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/live-updat ... it-is-over

Congress has completed their Constitutional task and has affirmed Joe Biden as the legitimately elected POTUS.

Trump has said that although he still disagrees with the election that there will be an orderly transfer of power:

"Even though I totally disagree with the outcome of the election, and the facts bear me out, nevertheless there will be an orderly transition on January 20th," Trump said, according to a statement attributed to him and released by the White House.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-e ... l-n1253223

Trump's Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram accounts have been temporarily suspended.

As far as I can tell, the riots are over and no other city experienced any large, violent demonstrations. If anyone has information to the contrary, if there were other major, violent demonstrations besides those in DC, please post your link.

Edit: There was an incident that lasted for about 30 minutes at the WA Governor's mansion where a group of protesters broke through a gate. Looks like it lasted about 30 minutes:

https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/pol ... 12660.html

4 people are dead, one having been shot by police, 3 others of "medical emergencies". There's been numerous other injuries, including police officers. No other details are known. According to reports, there have been "dozens" arrested.

Ugly day, worst in my memory since the assassinations of the 60's. Hopefully it's over. Helluva way to start off 2021.

[NorthHawk]

I was reading Northhawk describing Trump supporters as uneducated basically calling them dumb.

Calling the uneducated stupid wasn't my intent. I have worked with a number of people who didn't have the opportunity to get more than a High School education but were very
intelligent. However, they all had a characteristic that they trusted what others said much easier than those with a higher education. My observation is small in sample size,
but it does fit with Trump loving the poorly educated and taking advantage of them. That's what scammers do - they find weak spots and exploit them to their advantage.
The poorly educated are only part of Trumps base, and ASF is right in that there is a deep well of anger and fear of the left within his supporters. One of the better ways to
mitigate that distrust is to help them financially. I've suggested turning the trillion dollar tax cuts upside down where the vast majority of the cuts which now go to the monied
elite would go to small and medium sized businesses and those making less than $500,000/year. It would go a long way to mitigate the fear of a "socialist" government by the
Democrats as their lives would be just a little easier. Combine that with health care reform and the possible option of not paying for insurance coverage, and they might even
consider voting Dem in upcoming elections. In the end, it's about making people's lives better and if they can do that, it might take some of the air out of the Trump balloon.

[c_hawkbob]

Y'all can say "well I know this guy or that that is a Trump supporter and he's not stupid", because we all know plenty of examples, but if you want to tiptoe around the rest in deference to that percentage fine, I get it, but I for one am just gonna say it: most of them, especially those insurrectionists last night, are dumb as soup. Period. They're just idiots that will believe anything that reinforces their own personal prejudices. They have no idea of what the facts are because now they have their own set of alternate facts and are told by people they do know and trust that the sky is actually green so it damn well must be Green! And they'll not only buy it but defend it to the death. If you've got a brain and you choose for whatever reason to associate yourselves with these loons you deserve whatever stink you get on you for having done so.

[RiverDog]

Calling the uneducated stupid wasn't my intent. I have worked with a number of people who didn't have the opportunity to get more than a High School education but were very intelligent. However, they all had a characteristic that they trusted what others said much easier than those with a higher education. My observation is small in sample size, but it does fit with Trump loving the poorly educated and taking advantage of them. That's what scammers do - they find weak spots and exploit them to their advantage.

I agree with that, and I'll add to it: A good many Trump supporters of whom I know that fit that description have been held back in their careers due to their lack of a diploma, or at least that's what their superiors have told them. Sometimes the lack of a diploma makes for a convenient excuse not to advance them as it saves their superiors from the unpleasant task of telling them the real truth of their being held back. Sometimes that real reason is legitimate, sometimes not. And who is likely to be advanced in their place? A female, a minority, a younger person fresh out of college.

There are other, much more subtle slights that older white males are subject to. How many times to you see commercials where it's the white male that's made out to be the 'idiot' while it's the female or minority playing the 'straight' role? Whether internalizing this to apply to themselves is part of a rational thought process or not, these types of repeated characterizations of white males has an effect particularly on those that North Hawk describes as having weak spots in their character. It's the same effect that blacks were subjected to in the 50's and 60's when you didn't even see them on TV's or commercials, and when you did, they were in uncomplimentary or lower level roles.

I'm not offering any solutions, just describing to you my thoughts and opinions as to the mental make-up of some of the people in Trump's base.

[RiverDog]

Y'all can say "well I know this guy or that that is a Trump supporter and he's not stupid", because we all know plenty of examples, but if you want to tiptoe around the rest in deference to that percentage fine, I get it, but I for one am just gonna say it: most of them, especially those insurrectionists last night, are dumb as soup. Period. They're just idiots that will believe anything that reinforces their own personal prejudices. They have no idea of what the facts are because now they have their own set of alternate facts and are told by people they do know and trust that the sky is actually green so it damn well must be Green! And they'll not only buy it but defend it to the death. If you've got a brain and you choose for whatever reason to associate yourselves with these loons you deserve whatever stink you get on you for having done so.

I agree with that, too, at least as it applies to the violent protesters.

I did see a poll, that around 40 some percent of Republicans were OK with the Capitol takeover. Just a rough guess would make it about 15% of the population, taking into account that a certain percentage of Trump voters do not consider themselves Republicans. That's pretty alarming number if those surveys are accurate.

[Hawktawk]

Trumpanzee? Eh. You prove my point right there. What do you think a Trumpanzee thinks of your comments? Fighting words.

Once again putting your own concerns other others and making it seem reasonable. Sorry guy. Taking over six city blocks and city hall if is what it is. You don't get to pick and choose what is right. There was someone murdered when the city blocks were taken over.

Thus the problem. People deciding what concerns are important and what aren't based on your political bias.

Keep it up. But be very prepared to fight for what you believe in with more than words because the other side is most assuredly seems to be arming up for more than talk.

They've reached a point where they are willing to attack the capitol with all the mainstream corporate and government usual talking heads telling them to calm down and their concerns don't matter. Seems to work real well.

Well you reiterate they are in fact Trumpanzees"what do you think a Trumpanzee thinks of your comments?" : If they want to get in my 6' 250 lb widebody still mostly gristle and tough face they are going down pronto. Ground and pound.
I had to walk away from a fanatical trumpanzee on the streets of Newport Oregon who got in my face claiming Trump won, socialism bad, covids the flu etc. I loudly and curtly told him my views, Trump lost and is now committing sedition,informed him i've lost an uncle and a woman who was a second mom to me to Covid and he persisted, asked me to be honest about what really killed them.

The fist that's been held back for 4 years almost unhinged. These freaks wanna lock and load? OK i'll be out there with millions of real patriots .

To me a Trumpanzee is a true believer who thinks trump is some godlike messiah who can do no wrong, not necessarily anyone who voted for him but I also believe if you voted for him twice you had a death wish you didn't know about. I dont care about your IQ or level of education, social status you were duped. You were in the cult.

If you justify what going on at this point 2 months after Dumpster fire lost bigly, whipped up a riot desecrating the people's house you are a trumptard. No ideological divide, no "socialism bad" is worse than the last 4 years of psycho land. Anyone supporting this sedition has lost grip on what bring an american means.
THEY LOST. THEY GOT BEAT.They are trying to overturn the US presidential election they got CRUSHED IN and again on Tuesday. , not protest a LEGITIMATE problem such as police brutality and a fascist president however misguided and violent they may have been on the fringe. . They lost in every court including the SCOTUS 9-0.

They can kiss my arse in front of the post office and give me an hour to draw a crowd. I don't give a good god damn what they think. They are seditionists, ridiculous, delusional, psychotic, living in a fantasy world. THEY LOST. THEY GOT BEAT.They are trying to overturn the US presidential election they got CRUSHED IN and again on Tuesday.

I guess I've wasted my breath pointing out the role these white supremacists have had in igniting and extending the protests all year and spearheading an assault on the capital last night.Packing weapons, swinging around confederate flags in the rotunda . guns drawn, a shooting inside the capitol. There's not fig leaf of cover for these actions.
25th amendment NOW

[I-5]

After trampling all over the sacred halls of our democracy yesterday, maybe we’ll at least stop hearing complaints when an athlete chooses to respectfully (as always) sit out the national anthem.

[RiverDog]

25th amendment NOW

I've been thinking about the possible application of the 25th since yesterday's riot. At first, I was leaning in favor of it, especially when I heard of all the Trump staffers that are resigning and reading reports that informal discussions are under way. Then I saw John Bolton being interviewed and he felt that it would do more harm that good. Now I don't know what to think.

I don't care what we dish out to Trump, whether we evoke the 25th, impeach him, and let SDNY jail him if that's going to get him off the stage. I also don't care if he spends the rest of his life living on his golf courses and banging pornstars 3 times a day if that's going to trivialize him. What ever it takes within the law to silence the POS and his followers is the course I want to take.