Paul Moyer Comments

[c_hawkbob]

It’s naiiive wishful thinking to minimize the comments made by Russ , the things said and not said both by he and the team . When asked if he’s available he said that’s a Seahawks question although he has a no trade clause .

So that's it? "That's a Seahawks question" is what you're basing all that other speculation on? And I'm naïve because I don't take it to mean what you do?

Whatever floats your boat.

[Hawktawk]

I agree NH. I love RW, but I didn’t care for the contract negotiation year, the let Russ Cook barf, and the comments RW made on the DP Show. On the latter, one could hear in his voice that RW really wasn’t all that comfortable saying what he said. His agent is an ass, but at the end of the day, RW follows his lead. RW sees himself as a mogul and he’s building an empire. I mean really, “why not him?”

I hope he retires as a Hawk, but the longer the drip, drip, drip of the off-season chatter goes, it seems harder & harder to fathom. All said, I’m not in the locker room with him where he may well be loved by his peers. We have, however, seen evidence of this not being the case (Sherman, ADB, etc.) Were I Duane Brown, however, I’d pick up the phone and have a chat with the super star. Teams that pay one dude such a high percentage of the cap don’t win long term, usually.

As another add to Moyer’s comments... we all have eyes and we all see RW holding onto the ball. We also see him make some pretty amazing s*** out of absolutely nothing by hanging on to the ball those few ticks longer. Let’s not forget that. I think we would all (fans, coaches, teammates, media) be quicker to forgive were RW not so willing to toss his teammates under the bus.

It carries a lot of weight coming from you sis and it’s the best I’ve heard it said. ^^this right here sady^^

[Hawktawk]

[quote="c_hawkbob"
So that's it? "That's a Seahawks question" is what you're basing all that other speculation on? And I'm naïve because I don't take it to mean what you do?

Whatever floats your boat.[/quote]
You’re intentionally being naive , a wishful thinker . You’re smarter than the position you’ve taken . These comments are a problem. Much more the tossing of teammates and organization under the bus including continuing to run his yap after getting to help pick the new coordinator. At a minimum it’s a make or break year and with the extreme weirdness all over the league I rule nothing out .

[NorthHawk]

Russ will never come out and say he's not happy. He protects his image like it's his most precious commodity.
He uses others to get his messages out. He talks on Cowherd and alludes to some things, but after the interview Cowherd says Wilson isn't happy.
Does anyone think they aren't talking offline and behind the scenes? Of course they are and so is Russ's agent. It's how he gets his message out
without tarnishing his image.
Here's a new story that if even partly true suggests there is a larger rift than we might think:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... dismissed/

[c_hawkbob]

You’re intentionally being naive , a wishful thinker . You’re smarter than the position you’ve taken . These comments are a problem. Much more the tossing of teammates and organization under the bus including continuing to run his yap after getting to help pick the new coordinator. At a minimum it’s a make or break year and with the extreme weirdness all over the league I rule nothing out .

No, we just disagree. The only thing he's actually said that is even remotely disagreeable is "we've got to get better up front", which he also directly followed with

"I've got to get better too"

. I wish he hadn't said it that way (and at other times in the interview he didn't include the "up front"), but even having said it to twist it into what being said here now is pretty extreme. We're just used to him always saying the perfect thing and being a 100% company man and what did that get him? "he's a robot" or "he's not black enough", so now he actually speaks his mind and everybody is ready to sh!tcan him.

Look, we may actually trade him next year when doing so wouldn't land us a $38M dead cap hit, but there's just no way in the world anything is happening this season. And the realistic chances of a trade even next year are miniscule unless Pete also steps down (or is fired) as coach. Now we get a new HC next year all bets are off, then everything is in play and a control/alt/delete full reset just could happen. Until then though I am NOT being intentionally naïve, I just disagree with you.

[Hawk Sista]

If that article is truthful, the chasm is wider than I want to believe. It’s clear that he was mr. MVP and then he wasn’t, and once he wasn’t, he really wasn’t. I hope the find some neutral ground and soon.

[RiverDog]

All of this just extreme extrapolations by talking heads trying to generate clicks.

You don't know that to be the case anymore than those whom are convinced that Russell is unhappy and wants to be traded. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Is Russell unhappy here? Is the relationship between him and Pete becoming more strained? Hell if I know. But I do know that the comments he made are very concerning, especially coming from him. Russell is perhaps the most politically correct person I've ever followed this closely. He's usually very careful not to step on anyone's toes, one of those guys that strives to please all the people all the time. If he says anything that can even remotely be construed in a negative light, it's bound to raise a few eyebrows.

[c_hawkbob]

All of this just extreme extrapolations by talking heads trying to generate clicks.

You don't know that to be the case anymore than those whom are convinced that Russell is unhappy and wants to be traded. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't.

Is Russell unhappy here? Is the relationship between him and Pete becoming more strained? Hell if I know. But I do know that the comments he made are very concerning, especially coming from him. Russell is perhaps the most politically correct person I've ever followed this closely. He's usually very careful not to step on anyone's toes, one of those guys that strives to please all the people all the time. If he says anything that can even remotely be construed in a negative light, it's bound to raise a few eyebrows.

Of course I don't "know it" to be the case, any more than you "know" otherwise. That's just my opinion.

I will say though that Russ' next interview is going to of interest...

[obiken]

I believe the article because it makes sense. I think Russell is tired of seeing other quarterbacks taken seriously by management especially the coach and he’s not, and he’s an elite quarterback. There’s no way coaches just dismiss Tom Brady like it’s obvious Pete Carroll has dismissed Russell Wilson. Russell Wilson is the most indispensable player in the history of Seattle sports, little own Seahawk football. Pete Carroll, With the exception of one stint at USC, a place that recruits itself, was nothing before Russell Wilson. What’s amazing is it the most of Seattle sports fans agree with all you guys and think that Russ is just being petty, I’m sorry I don’t. River, C Bob, TCS, If the story has no legs then why is Seattle entertaining offers, why aren’t they treating it like the Texans are Deshaun Watson? You don’t take the phone call on trading Russell Wilson!

[c_hawkbob]

Because JS always answers the phone.

[obiken]

Because JS always answers the phone.

Cute answer Bob, the problem is if this is not solved in the next couple years, we’re gonna lose Ross, then we’re going to go back to being the poster child for football mediocrity period.

[Hawktawk]

Reported today that Wilson stormed out of a meeting with coaches prior to the Nov 19 game vs the Cardinals after this suggestions to fix the offense were ignored . As always it’s a press report but if true things have been going sideways for a while .

[obiken]

Reported today that Wilson stormed out of a meeting with coaches prior to the Nov 19 game vs the Cardinals after this suggestions to fix the offense were ignored . As always it’s a press report but if true things have been going sideways for a while .

That’s it hawk talk, The worst political scandals in the world when they tell the freaking truth! What if the president was the step up to the microphone and say, we’re not really the greatest country in the world anymore to live in. Canada is way better than we are, their people are way nicer, they don’t have so much guilt being leader of the free world, you can get your hockey and healthcare for free, and oh by the way, Cubans! Oh my gosh!

[c_hawkbob]

Because JS always answers the phone.

Cute answer Bob, the problem is if this is not solved in the next couple years, we’re gonna lose Ross, then we’re going to go back to being the poster child for football mediocrity period.

No, not a cute answer, a real answer. It's a thing with John and he's always said it, to the point of even bragging about it, "my phone rings all the time, and I always listen, but that doesn't mean I always have an interest". He says nearly exactly that every draft, and I'm sure it applies to year round as well.

[c_hawkbob]

Reported today that Wilson stormed out of a meeting with coaches prior to the Nov 19 game vs the Cardinals after this suggestions to fix the offense were ignored . As always it’s a press report but if true things have been going sideways for a while .

I actually was reading that while I was posting my last response to Riv. And even though it's from PFT I actually buy it to some degree. It makes sense with how the season played out. I put the onus on the team to straighten this out, they're the one's who have to ultimately deal with the situation whichever way they turn. None of that conflicts with my point about the fallout from Wilson's comments being so overblown though, I still believe that to be the case too.

That’s it hawk talk, The worst political scandals in the world when they tell the freaking truth! What if the president was the step up to the microphone and say, we’re not really the greatest country in the world anymore to live in. Canada is way better than we are, their people are way nicer, they don’t have so much guilt being leader of the free world, you can get your hockey and healthcare for free, and oh by the way, Cubans! Oh my gosh!

LOL, what?!

[NorthHawk]

Here's another article from PFT that Wilson has not yet requested a trade and wants to stay in Seattle, but his agent has identified the teams he would accept.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -or-bears/

Bears seems odd as they are not like the others with their current coaching carousel.

As well, I heard Sean Salisbury talking about Wilson and he alluded to Russ wanting to make personnel decisions. According to Salisbury, it's not just consulting with
any possible additions, but rather he's identifying players who he would want to sign.
I would think it might be a way to force a trade or change of coach without being the bad guy.
Salisbury also said he thinks Wilson will be dealt before DeSean Watson of Houston.

[Hawk Sista]

I really dislike Mark Rogers. But maybe it’s RW himself that should get my ire. He’s obviously calling the shots. It’s just too bad. QBs like RW don’t come around often.

[c_hawkbob]

I really dislike Mark Rogers. But maybe it’s RW himself that should get my ire. He’s obviously calling the shots. It’s just too bad. QBs like RW don’t come around often.

I'd say it's Pete. He's the one that needs to hold this whole thing together and he's evidently content to watch it unravel and see where it ends up. When you have a generational talent like Wilson you need to adapt your philosophy to his strengths rather try to bend him to your will. guys like Don Shula knew that, whether his generational talent was Larry Csonka or Dan Marino he adjusted to their strengths.

[obiken]

I'd say it's Pete. He's the one that needs to hold this whole thing together and he's evidently content to watch it unravel and see where it ends up. When you have a generational talent like Wilson you need to adapt your philosophy to his strengths rather try to bend him to your will. guys like Don Shula knew that, whether his generational talent was Larry Csonka or Dan Marino he adjusted to their strengths.

Thats it!! We Agree! the problem is Bob, PC WONT! Pete has too much power now after the passing of Paul Allen. IF PA was still alive this would have ALL been squished like a bug!! OMGosh, If I see Russ in a Cowboy Uniform, I wont puke, I WILL PERPETUALLY PUKE!!

[Hawk Sista]

It’s tough to hear, Bob. PC took us to the big dance twice and has made us an annual playoff lock (just about). And yet I hear what you are saying and I don’t even disagree. I just wish it weren’t so. I also see RW playing a role in the divorce that I don’t like. I know. I’m sitting on the fence, but maybe that’s just because I don’t want a break-up.

[RiverDog]

When you have a generational talent like Wilson you need to adapt your philosophy to his strengths rather try to bend him to your will. guys like Don Shula knew that, whether his generational talent was Larry Csonka or Dan Marino he adjusted to their strengths.

I'm not sure if I necessarily agree that Pete is the root cause of the 'problem', but I completely agree with the premise that a coach, particularly an NFL coach, needs to adapt to the available talent rather than forcing round pegs into square holes.

College coaches, particularly those that coach at a school like Alabama or LSU where getting players to come to you isn't a big problem (compared to a place like Pullman), can afford to recruit talent that are more adaptable to their system. If you want a point guard quarterback to run your run orientated, ball control offense, you can find the best one in the country. That's not the case in the NFL, or at least not to the same degree.

I'm not saying that Pete's college experience is influencing his actions in this matter, just noting the differences in coaching philosophies between high profile colleges and the NFL where parity is the norm.

[RiverDog]

I really dislike Mark Rogers. But maybe it’s RW himself that should get my ire. He’s obviously calling the shots. It’s just too bad. QBs like RW don’t come around often.

Rogers works for Russell. He's like a campaign manager for a political candidate. If he says or does something on Russell's behalf, it's the same as if it came out of Russell's mouth. If Russ doesn't like what Rogers is saying or doing, he has the authority to shut him up. Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent.

[c_hawkbob]

It’s tough to hear, Bob. PC took us to the big dance twice and has made us an annual playoff lock (just about). And yet I hear what you are saying and I don’t even disagree. I just wish it weren’t so. I also see RW playing a role in the divorce that I don’t like. I know. I’m sitting on the fence, but maybe that’s just because I don’t want a break-up.

I hear you, but when you compare Wilson's stance to that of Deshaun Watson, who just had a meeting with his head coach today informing him that he never intends to suit up for him again, there's really not much there to get all that upset with Russ over. I too wish he hadn't mentioned his O-line when talking about needed changes, but it's a whole lot short of demanding a trade and insisting the he'll never wear a Seahawks uniform again.

I can see being disappointed in what he said but not vilifying him like so many are.

[Aseahawkfan]

This isn't just some garden variety story that the media concocted. It's a story coming out of the mouth of our franchise quarterback and the most valuable football commodity that Pete/John have ever had. Sure, the media has put their usual spin on it, but there's no denying that Russell said what he said.

The other thing here is the timing. It's the beginning of the free agency season, a virtual dating session where looks matter. These 'rumors', regardless if there is any truth to them or not, is not going to help our efforts.

Once again, Russell said nothing about wanting a trade or anything of the kind. He answered some questions. He didn't throw his O-line under the bus. I read that interview. Just like the media usually does, they culled some text from a bigger interview and are trying to start some BS with it. Period.

It is Seattle fans that have turned on Russ. Seattle fans who begged for division titles and playoff runs, but are not satisfied with 12-4 and a division win any longer. They don't want playoff chances any longer. They want to be Tom Brady and the Patriots who win Super Bowls every other year, not every other team lucky enough to win 1 Super Bowl in franchise history or a 1 every decade or two. Or to be in the conversation every year. They can literally point to no other team but a Tom Brady team doing better than the Seahawks, but they still want something else just because. Not because it's better, but because they somewhere in their mind think it will be better even though 12-4 and a division title is pretty rare.

Sorry, if we get a new coach, GM, and QB, then fall into the scrap heap, Seattle fans will be looking stupid as hell for asking for change then wondering why that change didn't work when it rarely works. Teams would trade 3 1st rounders for Russell because a QB like Russell Wilson is literally a once in a 20 year or more talent. They are extremely rare and nearly impossible to find again. Seattle fans for some reason want to trade the best QB in franchise history who had the best QB year in franchise history during a 12-4 season we won the division.

I want you to sit down and think about how stupid that is. Really, sit there for a while and contemplate that.

Seattle fans want to trade a QB heading for the Hall of Fame, who hasn't missed a game in 10 years, who had a career year throwing 40 TDs and running for 2 and accumulating a total of 4700 yards during a 12-4 division win year. Seattle fans that want change from that and don't to build on that momentum are stupid, pure and simple. It's such a ridiculous idea to be this unhappy with your team's performance after this season I can't even contemplate how ridiculous, out of touch with reality, and spoiled Seattle fans have become.

[Aseahawkfan]

Rogers works for Russell. He's like a campaign manager for a political candidate. If he says or does something on Russell's behalf, it's the same as if it came out of Russell's mouth. If Russ doesn't like what Rogers is saying or doing, he has the authority to shut him up. Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent.

BS. This guy announced nothing. This is more NFL media trying to start crap in Seattle. You're lapping it up bored during an offseason.

[NorthHawk]

So how many players who don’t want to move on give a list of teams they would permit a trade to?
He won’t be happy unless he gets what he wants from the Offense or at least has major input into
the makeup of the team. I don’t see this being worked out but I hope i’m wrong.

[RiverDog]

Rogers works for Russell. He's like a campaign manager for a political candidate. If he says or does something on Russell's behalf, it's the same as if it came out of Russell's mouth. If Russ doesn't like what Rogers is saying or doing, he has the authority to shut him up. Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent.

BS. This guy announced nothing. This is more NFL media trying to start crap in Seattle. You're lapping it up bored during an offseason.

I didn't say that Rogers announced anything. I was replying to Sis who had expressed dismay with him. Attacking a player's agent is akin to attacking the weatherman. He's Russell's representative, his spokesman.

[c_hawkbob]

If Russ doesn't like what Rogers is saying or doing, he has the authority to shut him up. Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent.

First, I know you know that you're overstating this dynamic. Agents are not purely conduits for what their clients say, they have their own agendas too; they get paid on a percentage and often are even looking out for the interests of other clients when speaking for one. A lot of times agents have to be reigned in or even get fired because of these things.

Second, it is now evident that Russ has told Rogers to dial it back as on the ticker across my local news this morning it said "Seattle Seahawks star QB Russell Wilson is not asking for a trade, his agent said"... and this on a half hour local newscast that has about a 2 or 3 minute sports segment usually focused on HS sports and never has any NFL news. So evidently Russ told Rogers to go to a national source and make it clear he's not seeking a trade.

Unhappy maybe, wanting to see changes certainly, but he's not making himself the pain in the arse you all seem to think he is. It is still 99% media driven.

[RiverDog]

If Russ doesn't like what Rogers is saying or doing, he has the authority to shut him up. Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent.

First, I know you know that you're overstating this dynamic. Agents are not purely conduits for what their clients say, they have their own agendas too; they get paid on a percentage and often are even looking out for the interests of other clients when speaking for one. A lot of times agents have to be reigned in or even get fired because of these things.

Second, it is now evident that Russ has told Rogers to dial it back as on the ticker across my local news this morning it said "Seattle Seahawks star QB Russell Wilson is not asking for a trade, his agent said"... and this on a half hour local newscast that has about a 2 or 3 minute sports segment usually focused on HS sports and never has any NFL news. So evidently Russ told Rogers to go to a national source and make it clear he's not seeking a trade.

Unhappy maybe, wanting to see changes certainly, but he's not making himself the pain in the arse you all seem to think he is. It is still 99% media driven.

First, the point I was making was that Rogers works for Russell, and as his subordinate, he has a duty to accurately represent Russell, both in contract negotiations as well as public relations. I have made no comments that could be interpreted as Russell being a "pain in the arse" in this thread or others and feel that you're overdramatizing my position. I'm simply not dismissing these reports as being nothing but "99% media driven" as you are.

Second, your observation that Russell may have told Rogers to "told Rogers to go to a national source and make it clear he's not seeking a trade" supports the point I was trying to make.

[c_hawkbob]

Understood, I was just underscoring the difference between "Nothing happens unless Russell gives his consent" and "Rogers works for Russell, and as his subordinate".

I didn't say you were wrong, I said you were overstating the dynamic. It's not as though Rogers (or any agent) doesn't say anything until after they are told to, it very often happens that they speak of their own volition and are subsequently directed to modify what they had said to fall in line with what their clients intended to convey.

Just like during Russ' contract negotiations Rogers was making it clear that Russ wanted "this" and was willing to force the issue right up until Russ said "OK enough, we're taking the offer that's on the table, it's time for training camp". Up until that moment most here (with the media's help of course) were sure he was going to hold out or force a trade.

[RiverDog]

I did not mean for "nothing happens" to be taken so literally. Of course, there's always random comments made with slightly different terminology or angles that may not be in complete lock step with a client's thoughts on the matter. But the overall direction and tone is set by the boss.

[NorthHawk]

That a list of teams he would be willing to go to was stated means they have talked about it.
That's a big step in any players decision matrix and can't be taken too lightly. It appears to be
a struggle between Carroll and Wilson and either way we, the fans, lose.

[obiken]

That a list of teams he would be willing to go to was stated means they have talked about it.
That's a big step in any players decision matrix and can't be taken too lightly. It appears to be
a struggle between Carroll and Wilson and either way we, the fans, lose.

Steven A Smith wants him in New Orleans.

[c_hawkbob]

Saint's are expected to be $75M over the cap.

[NorthHawk]

There are going to be a lot of imaginative Cap maneuvers over the next months and probably some surprising cuts.
We aren't in a good position ourselves so I expect us to make some tough and unpopular decisions, too.

[RiverDog]

There are going to be a lot of imaginative Cap maneuvers over the next months and probably some surprising cuts. We aren't in a good position ourselves so I expect us to make some tough and unpopular decisions, too.

Yea, it's a Catch 22. Even if we wanted to, it would be extremely difficult to trade Russell and maintain our viability because of the consequences of the salary cap yet we can't make him happy unless we cut guys like Wagner and KJ and free up space to pursue free agent OL, which would compromise our defense that was just beginning to show signs of a recovery.

If we do trade Russell, we might as well part ways with guys like Wagner and KJ as we'd be in for a major rebuild anyway.

[NorthHawk]

They could do a deal with Russ that would see him pay back his signing bonus and thus relieve us of the big Cap hit and have the new team give it back to him along with a new contract to mitigate the Cap hit for them.
The CBA is supposed to permit this act so if a deal is to be made, it might have some of this as a part of it.

[obiken]

What would puke me out as one who was born to hate the Dallas Cowboys, it makes a lot of sense for them to franchise Dak, trade him to Seattle with a bunch of draft picks, Pete gets a quarterback that he likes and the Cowboys get Russell Wilson! It just makes too much sense.

[c_hawkbob]

They could do a deal with Russ that would see him pay back his signing bonus and thus relieve us of the big Cap hit and have the new team give it back to him along with a new contract to mitigate the Cap hit for them.
The CBA is supposed to permit this act so if a deal is to be made, it might have some of this as a part of it.

What in the world would motivate Russ to even consider such a thing?

[NorthHawk]

To get out if he should decide he wants to.