Paul Moyer Comments

[Hawk Sista]

It sickens me to think it’s happening at all!!!! Damn it. Stacy Rost’s rant on 710 captures how I feel. Exactly!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.myn ... ilson/amp/

[c_hawkbob]

We absolutely know Wilson isn't happy

I don't think we "absolutely know" any such thing, at least not to the degree you seem to be assuming. He may not be happy with how many times he gets hit or with Pete's overall offensive philosophy but you're talking about him as though he were DeShaun Watson demanding a trade and threatening to hold out! He's not even close to that!

All he's really doing so far is trying to nudge things in the direction he thinks we need to be going and maybe gauging his worth on the market.

Of course we go into the season with him, he's still one of the 2 or 3 very best in the league at what he does and I don't believe he wants out, even though he may be making it known that he's willing to be elsewhere at some point.

[c_hawkbob]

It sickens me to think it’s happening at all!!!! Damn it. Stacy Rost’s rant on 710 captures how I feel. Exactly!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.myn ... ilson/amp/

I agree with her about what each of the parties involved should do but not necessarily that we are ground to a halt and unable to get anything accomplished because they have not yet. I'll wait to see what kind of moves we make in FA and on draft day before making that kind of assumption.

[NorthHawk]

"c_hawkbob"][quote]We absolutely know Wilson isn't happy

I don't think we "absolutely know" any such thing, at least not to the degree you seem to be assuming. He may not be happy with how many times he gets hit or with Pete's overall offensive philosophy but you're talking about him as though he were DeShaun Watson demanding a trade and threatening to hold out! He's not even close to that!

All he's really doing so far is trying to nudge things in the direction he thinks we need to be going and maybe gauging his worth on the market.

Of course we go into the season with him, he's still one of the 2 or 3 very best in the league at what he does and I don't believe he wants out, even though he may be making it known that he's willing to be elsewhere at some point.



We absolutely do know Wilson isn't happy. Just read the comments from his agent and former team mates as that's how Wilson gets his message out.
Mark Rogers was told what teams Wilson would permit himself to be traded to. That's a huge step and suggests that he doesn't think it can be solved. Wilson probably won't hold out, but how much of the locker room would
fracture as they know his feelings. How does he lead a team when he's not all in? A player can't be a team leader when he's eyeing the door and wanting more or out.
The only way it can be fixed is if either Carroll or Wilson backs down. Do you think either of them will? I don't. And that's a big problem.

[c_hawkbob]

Well obviously we disagree on this. I think the way you're stating it is about 20% truth and 80% media doing what media does.

[obiken]

It sickens me to think it’s happening at all!!!! Damn it. Stacy Rost’s rant on 710 captures how I feel. Exactly!!

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports.myn ... ilson/amp/

I like it!! I think its been coming for a long time and I honestly believe Sis IF Paul Allen was still alive, he would have squished this whole drill like a bug!!

[Aseahawkfan]

Wilson is very conscious of his image so if this had no merit he would have said so in no uncertain terms.
Instead his team has given a list of teams he would be willing to go to.
Our FO in the meantime has gone from not answering the phone calls to stating the bidding would start at 3 first round picks.

When both sides move in their own directions the possibility that something is wrong is greatly increased. There are now stories
that the Bears are getting ready to make a big run at Wilson.

Never has before, not sure why you think he would do it now. I have never seen Russell even acknowledge much less spend much time quashing rumors, ever.

There were rumors of why he divorced his first wife, he never said a thing about it. There were rumors that Golden Tate slept with his wife and they had a falling out. Russ never said a thing about it.

So please don't try to sell me on something that has never happened. Russ is aware of his image. He's aware that saying nothing and letting his play on the field and actions off the field speak for him is how he works. It's exactly why he won Walter Payton Man of the Year. He don't talk much about stuff that don't matter like this rumor. Never has, never will. They don't call Russ the Robot for nothing. That man don't let others in on his business. Neither do Pete and John.

[Aseahawkfan]

We absolutely know Wilson isn't happy. He speaks through his agent and former team mates in this regard. Brandon Marshall said Wilson is just looking for a classy way out - thus no definitive statement from him.
So do we go into a season with an unhappy QB who wants to be elsewhere and a fractured locker room with players choosing sides?
How can he continue being the team leader when isn't happy and wants out?
Would Pete Carroll give in and let the Offense be run like Wilson thinks?
I think it's an unfortunate but very real possibility that he is dealt. Cap concerns are an issue, but they can be surmounted by various means.

No we don't. Zero with any of these stories has been corroborated by the parties supposedly involved. It's literally been all rumors and innuendoes based on sparse evidence.

[NorthHawk]

Ask yourself the following questions:
Does a QB that's happy with his current environment put out a list of teams he's willing to be traded to?
Would you see that from Mahomes, Rodgers, or Brady?
Does a team that has a happy QB say the bidding starts at 3 1st round picks?
Would a team like the Bears get ready to try to trade for Wilson if the Seahawks had said we're not trading him?
Then add in comments from former players who know and talk to Wilson (Wilson's M O is to use others to get his message out).

You don't have to be Norman Einstein to figure out something isn't right and is probably seriously wrong with his relationship with our FO and probably Pete Carroll in particular.

[Hawk Sista]

Edit - replying to Obi - I don’t know that I agree with that, don’t know that I disagree either. There is no evidence other than a hunch. I think it’s been more of an evolution of RWs stardom and Pete sticking with what has always worked, in spite of not necessarily having the personnel to win his way. I’d love to see them meet in the middle; I hope it’s not too late.

[c_hawkbob]

Ask yourself the following questions:

Does a QB that's happy with his current environment put out a list of teams he's willing to be traded to?
His agent would

Would you see that from Mahomes, Rodgers, or Brady?
Sure.

Does a team that has a happy QB say the bidding starts at 3 1st round picks?
They didn't, that is just the "what would it take' speculation between talking heads.

Would a team like the Bears get ready to try to trade for Wilson if the Seahawks had said we're not trading him?
Get ready to? I think you mean "be rumored to make an offer for"

And other players aren't letting Russ speak through them, they're just offering their own opinions just like everyone else.

[obiken]

Edit - replying to Obi - I don’t know that I agree with that, don’t know that I disagree either. There is no evidence other than a hunch. I think it’s been more of an evolution of RWs stardom and Pete sticking with what has always worked, in spite of not necessarily having the personnel to win his way. I’d love to see them meet in the middle; I hope it’s not too late.

No question, you and me both!

[Aseahawkfan]

Ask yourself the following questions:
Does a QB that's happy with his current environment put out a list of teams he's willing to be traded to?

Irrelevant.

Would you see that from Mahomes, Rodgers, or Brady?

Mahomes is young.

Not sure if you are keeping abreast of the rumor mill, both Brady and Rodgers have had plenty of similar rumors about their attitudes that were spun up by the sports media and turned out to be nothing. So yes, Brady and Rodgers have had plenty of rumors about their unhappiness, especially after not wining a Super Bowl.

Seems you forgot all talk about Brady being unhappy with Belichick's view of his business partner. Or the rumors of the anger Brady felt towards Belichick for the cheating.

Or how Rodgers was unhappy with the Packers organization for drafting a QB behind him last draft and how it drove him to greater levels of play.

Does a team that has a happy QB say the bidding starts at 3 1st round picks?

This is a rumor. Stop making it seem as though Seattle made this public. Zero has been said by the Seahawks about trading Russell by anyone from the organization including Russell.

Would a team like the Bears get ready to try to trade for Wilson if the Seahawks had said we're not trading him?

Another rumor. Nothing has indicated that Seattle told Chicago they were interested in a trade. I would stop equating rumors with fact.

Then add in comments from former players who know and talk to Wilson (Wilson's M O is to use others to get his message out).

More rumors and none of those players have been on interviews saying these rumors are true. You are going purely off rumors.

You don't have to be Norman Einstein to figure out something isn't right and is probably seriously wrong with his relationship with our FO and probably Pete Carroll in particular.

I don't go by rumors. There have been plenty of rumors over the years about plenty of players. No idea what percentage turn out to be true, but likely not many.

You may have a short memory, but I do not. Like I said, I remember similar rumors during Wilson's contract year. Didn't turn out to be true. I heard rumors about Brady and Rodgers in recent years that didn't turn out to be true. Plenty of rumors every year get pushed through the mill and don't turn out to be true.

If you want to believe rumors, have at it. I go by what I've seen from Seattle under Pete Carroll and John Schneider. And they usually don't respond to rumors. They let the fans spin it up, while they quietly go about their business. Russ pretty much does the same. Rumors is likely all you get ever. Suffice it to say I don't buy it. I'll say once again until it is from an official source with Seattle, this is just the NFL rumor mill doing what it does to make hay during the offseason.

[c_hawkbob]

The most disquieting thing to me yet is the team's season ticket holder letter making no mention of Russell Wilson. He's undoubtedly their #1 draw, and the letter mentions other players like Lockett and DK, but the omission of Russ makes me think they are at least actually mulling over the possibility of his not being with the team this season. Neither the team nor Russ have actually said anything yet, but actions speak louder than words.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/seattle-se ... 31359.html

[RiverDog]

The most disquieting thing to me yet is the team's season ticket holder letter making no mention of Russell Wilson. He's undoubtedly their #1 draw, and the letter mentions other players like Lockett and DK, but the omission of Russ makes me think they are at least actually mulling over the possibility of his not being with the team this season. Neither the team nor Russ have actually said anything yet, but actions speak louder than words.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/seattle-se ... 31359.html

Welcome to the club. Where there's smoke, there's fire.

We'll have to keep an eye on that giant mural of Russell that's painted on the outside of the stadium. If they paint over it with an image of DK or Lockett, then we'll really have to worry.

[c_hawkbob]

This is the first thing that has been anything but speculation. Everything else has come from people talking about the two parties involved, but this is the team making the conscious decision to omit mention of him in their letter to season ticket holders. This actually is something.

[RiverDog]

This is the first thing that has been anything but speculation. Everything else has come from people talking about the two parties involved, but this is the team making the conscious decision to omit mention of him in their letter to season ticket holders. This actually is something.

True, but there were/are a lot of pieces to the puzzle, the sum of which can't be rationalized as nothing more than the media looking for something to write about.

I honestly hope we can patch things up. Russell has been one of my all time favorite Seahawks, but these last few weeks has caused me to harbor some serious doubts about his character. I'd hate to see it all end in a power struggle between Russell and Pete.

Regardless of how it ends, this incident demonstrates why I've tried not to hitch my emotional wagon to professional athletes no matter how great a guy they seem to be.

[c_hawkbob]

If Russ leaves I'm blaming Pete 100%. He'll wind up like Belichick if he'd let Brady go a decade earlier.

[Hawk Sista]

My emotional wagon is hitched more to a fantastic franchise QB than it is to Russ. Excellent QBs win. I like winning. Plain and simple.

[RiverDog]

My emotional wagon is hitched more to a fantastic franchise QB than it is to Russ. Excellent QBs win. I like winning. Plain and simple.

That's me, too. I'm all about the team, all about winning. Except as it relates to my team winning, I honestly don't care that much about the accomplishments of specific players.

[RiverDog]

If Russ leaves I'm blaming Pete 100%. He'll wind up like Belichick if he'd let Brady go a decade earlier.

I'm the opposite, but I won't blame Russ as much as I'd blame the system because Russell isn't alone. I think it is absurd that one star player can have more to say about the overall direction of the team than does the head coach, especially one as accomplished as Pete is. Inmates running the asylum.

[NorthHawk]

According to PFT, the letter to Seahawks season ticket holders doesn’t mention Wilson. It does mention DK and Lockett along with the new
OC and new RB coach. It’s odd that their star franchise QB isn’t mentioned. They suggest that they might not want to promise Wilson will be playing to those paying good money and it implies all isn’t well between him and the team with the possibility of a trade.

[obiken]

According to PFT, the letter to Seahawks season ticket holders doesn’t mention Wilson. It does mention DK and Lockett along with the new
OC and new RB coach. It’s odd that their star franchise QB isn’t mentioned. They suggest that they might not want to promise Wilson will be playing to those paying good money and it implies all isn’t well between him and the team with the possibility of a trade.

Yeah, this is petty, it was not done by mistake. Your seeing the beginning of the end.

[obiken]

I'm the opposite, but I won't blame Russ as much as I'd blame the system because Russell isn't alone. I think it is absurd that one star player can have more to say about the overall direction of the team than does the head coach, especially one as accomplished as Pete is. Inmates running the asylum.

Oh please! We are talking the Ultimate Company man and Go Hawks after every interview. He is not asking for control, he is asking for input and an upgrade. This is on PC, period. Its a fleeting moment I know, I but I agree with Bob on this one.

[Aseahawkfan]

The most disquieting thing to me yet is the team's season ticket holder letter making no mention of Russell Wilson. He's undoubtedly their #1 draw, and the letter mentions other players like Lockett and DK, but the omission of Russ makes me think they are at least actually mulling over the possibility of his not being with the team this season. Neither the team nor Russ have actually said anything yet, but actions speak louder than words.

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/seattle-se ... 31359.html

That I do not like. Russ was key in the 459 points. Set a new franchise record for TDs. No mention of it. Nothing about Russ being a key in the franchise record 459 points and 12 wins. I hope if this is some crap from Pete and he is jettisoned before he does the stupidest thing in franchise history.

Well, this is an official source that something is wrong. Either that or they have one of the dumbest PR teams in the NFL.

[c_hawkbob]

The solution for keeping Wilson and improving the team? Pete retires.

Works for me.

[c_hawkbob]

My emotional wagon is hitched more to a fantastic franchise QB than it is to Russ. Excellent QBs win. I like winning. Plain and simple.

So you're say Russ is not that? This surprises me.

[RiverDog]

The solution for keeping Wilson and improving the team? Pete retires.

He does seem to have lost it. There's not many defensive coaches left out there. The vast majority of the young new hires are offensive coaches, guys like Kevin Stefanski, Joe Judge, Matt Rhule, Matt LaFleur, Kliff Kingsbury, and Zac Taylor. Even recycled new hires like McCarthy and Arians are offensive guys. Outside of a retread like Rivera, the only defensive coaches to land a head coaching gig in the past 5 years has been Mike Vrabel and Matt Patricia, and they likely got their jobs as much for their association with the Patriots as their coaching resume.

It seems that in order to be successful in this new era, you're going to have to be able to kiss the ass of your starting quarterback, and Pete doesn't seem to have that ability.

[NorthHawk]

I'm not sure he has to kiss ass, but he has to let the Offense do its thing and concentrate on the Defense which needs a lot more work now that Dunlap is a FA.
With few draft picks it's going to be difficult to improve the Offense.

[RiverDog]

I'm not sure he has to kiss ass, but he has to let the Offense do its thing and concentrate on the Defense which needs a lot more work now that Dunlap is a FA. With few draft picks it's going to be difficult to improve the Offense.

My point is that the game is changing to favor the offense. Russell can look around the league and see all these young, offensive minded coaches, especially those within our own division, that are in their 30's and early 40's, closer to Russell's age, while he's stuck playing for Boomer and an outdated coaching philosophy, so to that degree, I can sympathize with him.

I agree that Pete needs to be a little more introspective, particularly when it comes to offense. We seem to be stuck in neutral, condemned to mediocrity. I just don't like how it's coming down, with the star quarterback dictating to the head coach. I'd rather see Pete get fired or retire.

[NorthHawk]

Pete has to become a team player and incorporate todays Offenses into his philosophy. But at 70 years old, can he really do that and is he willing.
I have my doubts, but maybe like you said with some introspection he can give enough to allow the Offense to invigorate itself into something closer to todays reality.
Otherwise we will lose our star QB (and there is some thought that Wilson has already made the decision to move on) and be relegated to losing seasons year after year.

[RiverDog]

Pete has to become a team player and incorporate todays Offenses into his philosophy. But at 70 years old, can he really do that and is he willing.
I have my doubts, but maybe like you said with some introspection he can give enough to allow the Offense to invigorate itself into something closer to todays reality.
Otherwise we will lose our star QB (and there is some thought that Wilson has already made the decision to move on) and be relegated to losing seasons year after year.

I agree. In order for Pete Ball to win championships, he needs a top 5 defense, and that's not going to happen anytime soon. If you can't make the players fit the system, you have to make the system fit the players.

The issue isn't so much about player acquisition as it is style of play. After all, the OL isn't THAT bad, especially when you consider that they're blocking for a QB that holds onto the ball forever. Hiring Waldron might be the needed change if Pete will let go of the reins a little bit.

[Hawk Sista]

If Russ leaves I'm blaming Pete 100%. He'll wind up like Belichick if he'd let Brady go a decade earlier.

While I hear you (part of me agrees), RW is pissing away opportunity too, IMHO. The Bears? Jets? Fins? Cowboys? Raiders? Etc.... as if they’ve been winning. And their O-line situation is better?? Even the Saints are releasing studs from their line. The grass ain’t always greener, and RW would be wise to see it. I don’t see this as an either or situation. Either it’s PC, JS, or RW. Or hell, even Jody. I see it as a combination of factors more complex and deeply rooted than we know. There will be plenty of blame to go around if we eff this up. And I believe that a divorce benefits nobody.

And yes, Bob. RW is every bit a franchise QB and I’ll be devastated if we lose his skill-set. I’m saying I try to be team first. RW seems to be leaning toward his own stats and legacy as much as winning with the Hawks. I want him on the team. Desperately. It’s looking grim for much beyond the 2021 season.

[c_hawkbob]

If Russ leaves I'm blaming Pete 100%. He'll wind up like Belichick if he'd let Brady go a decade earlier.

While I hear you (part of me agrees), RW is pissing away opportunity too, IMHO. The Bears? Jets? Fins? Cowboys? Raiders? Etc.... as if they’ve been winning. And their O-line situation is better?? Even the Saints are releasing studs from their line. The grass ain’t always greener, and RW would be wise to see it. I don’t see this as an either or situation. Either it’s PC, JS, or RW. Or hell, even Jody. I see it as a combination of factors more complex and deeply rooted than we know. There will be plenty of blame to go around if we eff this up. And I believe that a divorce benefits nobody.

And yes, Bob. RW is every bit a franchise QB and I’ll be devastated if we lose his skill-set. I’m saying I try to be team first. RW seems to be leaning toward his own stats and legacy as much as winning with the Hawks. I want him on the team. Desperately. It’s looking grim for much beyond the 2021 season.

I don't think RW is pissing away anywhere near the opportunity in leaving that we would be letting him go. Wherever he goes they'll be in the playoffs, cause whoever it is is going to be vested enough in him that they'll be willing to build around him specifically, something he's never had here.

Pete has always built to Pete's specifications which is Defense and a running game. I think that's why Pete would be willing to let him go, so he can get back to that blueprint without an elite QB absorbing so much cap space, but I don't think he thinks, as I do, that without Russ, we'd have been a middle of the pack team most of these years. Which is exactly where I see us going if they let him go. Then Pete will be gone and we'll have neither, and it'll be back to hoping for a winning season every year.

[NorthHawk]

The Bears might not be a bad choice for Russell (from his point of view) with their HC being from the Andy Reid tree where he was an OC.
It would be a 180 from Pete Carroll and he would have a better idea of how to use Wilson in a creative fashion instead of a 1980's run based Offense.

[Hawktawk]

According to PFT, the letter to Seahawks season ticket holders doesn’t mention Wilson. It does mention DK and Lockett along with the new
OC and new RB coach. It’s odd that their star franchise QB isn’t mentioned. They suggest that they might not want to promise Wilson will be playing to those paying good money and it implies all isn’t well between him and the team with the possibility of a trade.

I was listening to ESPN radio this morning and they were talking about the Wilson situation . Specifically the focus was this promotional letter which omits Russ and his team record breaking season . The consensus is that Seattle has had it with Russ and his attempted power grab and this is a shot across his bow making their displeasure clear . This was no accident .

[RiverDog]

The Bears might not be a bad choice for Russell (from his point of view) with their HC being from the Andy Reid tree where he was an OC.
It would be a 180 from Pete Carroll and he would have a better idea of how to use Wilson in a creative fashion instead of a 1980's run based Offense.

The Bears are a little short in receiving weapons. Allen Robinson is a good possession-type receiver but he doesn't even crack the top 50 in yards per catch, and we all know how Russell loves throwing the deep ball. PFF ranked their offensive line 20th, 6 spots below where ours finished. I don't see where the Bears are going to be a better option for a quarterback like Russell.

Another potential Russell landing spot, the Raiders, just traded their All Pro LT Trent Brown to the Patriots.

[Aseahawkfan]

My point is that the game is changing to favor the offense. Russell can look around the league and see all these young, offensive minded coaches, especially those within our own division, that are in their 30's and early 40's, closer to Russell's age, while he's stuck playing for Boomer and an outdated coaching philosophy, so to that degree, I can sympathize with him.

I agree that Pete needs to be a little more introspective, particularly when it comes to offense. We seem to be stuck in neutral, condemned to mediocrity. I just don't like how it's coming down, with the star quarterback dictating to the head coach. I'd rather see Pete get fired or retire.

The Super Bowl was won with strong defense this year.

[TriCitySam]

Amazes me that folks want to get rid of either Pete or Russ. Pete's a top 5 coach, and has put together incredible records like almost no other. And, I disagree with those that say the game has changed or passed him by. Regardless of recent events, a strong defense and a balanced attack is the most proven way to win. Am I a little unhappy with Russ's comments? Yup, but we are in no position to trade him. Will not, should not. As, they will have a tough time spending a bunch of $ rebuilding the OL. Pete's as good as anyone when it comes to dealing with disgruntled players, and I suspect we'll see some progress in the not too distant future.

[RiverDog]

My point is that the game is changing to favor the offense. Russell can look around the league and see all these young, offensive minded coaches, especially those within our own division, that are in their 30's and early 40's, closer to Russell's age, while he's stuck playing for Boomer and an outdated coaching philosophy, so to that degree, I can sympathize with him.

I agree that Pete needs to be a little more introspective, particularly when it comes to offense. We seem to be stuck in neutral, condemned to mediocrity. I just don't like how it's coming down, with the star quarterback dictating to the head coach. I'd rather see Pete get fired or retire.

The Super Bowl was won with strong defense this year.

Tampa Bay had the 7th ranked offense this season, 2nd in passing. Their rushing offense was ranked 28th. That's not Pete Ball.

Pete Ball wins with a top 5 defense and a run heavy, low turnover ball control offense. In 2013, our Lombardi season, our rushing offense was ranked 4th while our defense was ranked 1st. The following season, our defense and rushing offense were both ranked 1st. Pete is not going to win championships with a defense in the bottom 1/3 of the league and a middle of the road rushing offense like we were this season.

Pete likes winning games by scores of 17-10. Like most quarterbacks, Russell likes winning them 42-35.