Paul Moyer Comments

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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Sat Mar 13, 2021 2:41 pm

Independent Bears news site DaBearsBlog claims that a "formal trade offer" has been submitted by Chicago to the Seahawks.

I do not vouch for DaBearsBlog as a news source. Just passing it on as a point of interest.

My understanding is that they can only trade 3 picks in one deal unless it's on draft day

That would be news to me. Still entirely possible, just never heard of it.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Sat Mar 13, 2021 3:45 pm

I wonder if they would consider a player like Khalil Mack as equivalent to a 1st round pick. then add a couple of 2nds and a few 3rds to make up for the remaining value. Or whatever the combination of picks might be.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Sat Mar 13, 2021 4:23 pm

RiverDog wrote:My understanding is that they can only trade 3 picks in one deal unless it's on draft day


c_hawkbob wrote:That would be news to me. Still entirely possible, just never heard of it.


I read it this morning in an article discussing a possible Russell Wilson trade with the Bears. I wish I could find the article again but a number of searches didn't turn it up.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sat Mar 13, 2021 7:46 pm

Russell to the Bears for middle to low first round picks sounds about as appealing as garbage for dinner.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawk Sista » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:25 pm

My understanding is that you cannot trade picks beyond three years. They can offer (obvious hyperbole to make a point) three 1sts, 3 2nds, and three 3rds, but they cannot offer 5 1sts (unless they have 5 1sts in the next 3 years). Once the draft starts, there’s a window to include the current year + 3 years. As I understand from another source.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:37 am

Hawk Sista wrote:My understanding is that you cannot trade picks beyond three years. They can offer (obvious hyperbole to make a point) three 1sts, 3 2nds, and three 3rds, but they cannot offer 5 1sts (unless they have 5 1sts in the next 3 years). Once the draft starts, there’s a window to include the current year + 3 years. As I understand from another source.


Yes, that's what I read. Thanks, Sis! I knew I wasn't hallucinating.

I read a discussion on Reddit where several posters claim that it's 4 years in advance for first rounders, but I still can't find a link to a credible source.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:20 am

What Sis described was 4 1st round picks. The Draft Day 1st, plus 3 more years of 1sts.
Maybe they will have a trade in place but not announce it until Draft Day to make it legal.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:03 am

Sounds to me like the operative restriction is years, not picks. The limit is 3 because you can only go 3 hears out and the assumption being a team's own 3 firsts, but the that team trades say, Khalil Mack for another couple of firsts with those three years they can trade those as well.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawk Sista » Sun Mar 14, 2021 9:31 am

That’s right Bob. Thank be article I read suggested that Chicago trade Allen Robinson for a 1st to sweeten the pot for the Hawks, or Watson.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:51 am

Hawk Sista wrote:That’s right Bob. Thank be article I read suggested that Chicago trade Allen Robinson for a 1st to sweeten the pot for the Hawks, or Watson.


Allen Robinson? That would leave the Bears with an even more bare bones WR corps, in trouble with cap space, no first round selection, and an offensive line ranked in the bottom third. I can't imagine a quarterback like Russell wanting to be traded to a team in that kind of situation. Plus there's very little upside for us as our WR's are already one of the strongest position groups on the team. Robinson would likely be our #3 receiver.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Sun Mar 14, 2021 12:54 pm

I think Sis meant they would have another 1st round pick to add making it their next 3 picks + the 1st received from dealing Robinson.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Sun Mar 14, 2021 1:35 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I think Sis meant they would have another 1st round pick to add making it their next 3 picks + the 1st received from dealing Robinson.


Ahh, yes, IC. Thanks.

But it would still leave the Bears with a bare bones receiving corps.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby jshawaii22 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 2:46 pm

From NFL.Com:
The Bears will let wide receiver Allen Robinson II walk in free agency. Robinson has been a great player for the Bears, but the team balked at extending the 27-year old receiver last year.Feb 14, 2021.


I think he's a free agent, so unless he agrees to a 'sign and trade' -- which I don't think the NFL does like the NBA, he can't be traded for a first round pick as he's not under contract.

Edit: My bad, he was tagged, but so far has indicated he won't sign the contract, so I don't think he can be traded, unless he signs the tag, but then he has a large 1 year deal and that's it until after this coming season for any team that would trade for him.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawk Sista » Sun Mar 14, 2021 4:06 pm

Yes, he was tagged.

I’m not sure if you’ve watched many Bears games RD, but Robinson is a total stud. He is quite clearly one of the best WRs in the league, and with Trubisky throwing him the rock. He’s nobody’s 3rd WR. The Hawks have two top 15 wrs; another unknown - are they making RW, is RW making them, or is it a give/take. I think it’s yet another reason Russ needs to more fully examine his future. You are right that w/o AR, the Bears would be less desirable. It’s kind the gift of the Magi, really. ;) Give up a great WR threat to get a great QB; there’s no hair to comb.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby obiken » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:43 pm

But it would still leave the Bears with a bare bones receiving corps.


I dont know River, I am with Bob on this, I will believe it when I see it. Too much dead cap space to deal with this year. Next year, yeah it could happen.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby jshawaii22 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 7:48 pm

With Drew Brees officially retiring, move over Bears, the Saints may come calling, too.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby obiken » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:39 am

jshawaii22 wrote:With Drew Brees officially retiring, move over Bears, the Saints may come calling, too.


Even so guy, the Saints are marching in cap space HELL! :D
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:05 am

jshawaii22 wrote:With Drew Brees officially retiring, move over Bears, the Saints may come calling, too.


obiken wrote:Even so guy, the Saints are marching in cap space HELL! :D


And they just signed Tayson Hill to a 4 year, $140 million contract extension, although that can get out of it, it seems unlikely that they would make such a maneuver if they had Russell in their crosshairs.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2021/03/14/tayso ... 40-million
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:50 am

The Saints deal with Hill is a cap cutting stunt that’s mostly voidable . Not sure how it all works but somehow it saves money . I could envision the saints sniffing around . Suppose they move Hill. If Pete wants to run the ball that’s the horse to ride .
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:55 am

You can cross off both NO and Dallas from the list now, I would think. NO doesn't have much Cap space even after all of their contract re-workings.
I read a comment from one of the people that normally get the scoops (not Shefter or Silver, but one of those types) who said there have been no negotiations about Wilson with the Seahawks. That they were just receiving calls.
It sounds like a typical JS move much like he did with ET and let him walk for nothing when we could have had a 2nd or maybe a little more. It wouldn't surprise me if Pete thinks he can get Wilson on the same page as him while
his trade value dries up. Then Wilson will play out his contract all the while unhappy and less productive and the Seahawks get much less in trade return his last year when it becomes clear he won't sign an extension.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:37 am

NorthHawk wrote:You can cross off both NO and Dallas from the list now, I would think. NO doesn't have much Cap space even after all of their contract re-workings.
I read a comment from one of the people that normally get the scoops (not Shefter or Silver, but one of those types) who said there have been no negotiations about Wilson with the Seahawks. That they were just receiving calls.
It sounds like a typical JS move much like he did with ET and let him walk for nothing when we could have had a 2nd or maybe a little more. It wouldn't surprise me if Pete thinks he can get Wilson on the same page as him while
his trade value dries up. Then Wilson will play out his contract all the while unhappy and less productive and the Seahawks get much less in trade return his last year when it becomes clear he won't sign an extension.


The Saints still have Bridgewater on their roster, too.

I heard the same thing, that the Hawks aren't actively shopping Russell, just listening to offers.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:41 am

NorthHawk wrote:You can cross off both NO and Dallas from the list now, I would think. NO doesn't have much Cap space even after all of their contract re-workings.
I read a comment from one of the people that normally get the scoops (not Shefter or Silver, but one of those types) who said there have been no negotiations about Wilson with the Seahawks. That they were just receiving calls.
It sounds like a typical JS move much like he did with ET and let him walk for nothing when we could have had a 2nd or maybe a little more. It wouldn't surprise me if Pete thinks he can get Wilson on the same page as him while
his trade value dries up. Then Wilson will play out his contract all the while unhappy and less productive and the Seahawks get much less in trade return his last year when it becomes clear he won't sign an extension.

RiverDog wrote:The Saints still have Bridgewater on their roster, too.

I heard the same thing, that the Hawks aren't actively shopping Russell, just listening to offers.

Which would make omitting him from the season ticket holder letter a bit of an A-hole move.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawk Sista » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:13 am

Bridgewater is on the Panthers roster. Winston is a Saint.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 7:58 am

Which would make omitting him from the season ticket holder letter a bit of an A-hole move.


I think Florio said it smelled like a lawyer move. They were covering their butts in case they did trade him and someone who bought tickets sued them for false advertising as they bought their tickets to watch Wilson
play and now don't get to. Sounds plausible, I suppose.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:06 am

Florio used to be a lawyer so that's the direction his mind tends to take, I don't think such a lawsuit would have any traction, but I'll accept it.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:43 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Which would make omitting him from the season ticket holder letter a bit of an A-hole move.


North Hawk wrote:I think Florio said it smelled like a lawyer move. They were covering their butts in case they did trade him and someone who bought tickets sued them for false advertising as they bought their tickets to watch Wilson play and now don't get to. Sounds plausible, I suppose.


c_hawkbob wrote:Florio used to be a lawyer so that's the direction his mind tends to take, I don't think such a lawsuit would have any traction, but I'll accept it.


Russell's omission from the season ticket holder letter is definitely an a-hole move and a shot across the bow, but I regard it as tit-for-tat. Russell's tactics aren't exactly pure as the wind driven snow, either.

The CYOA lawyer theory seems like me to be a real stretch. Suppose they decide to cut Lockett, who was mentioned in the letter. Wouldn't they be able to sue for false advertising for that as well?
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 9:54 am

Wilson is, like most of the top QB's the face of the franchise, so he might be considered more important than a WR or other positional player.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 11:43 am

NorthHawk wrote:Wilson is, like most of the top QB's the face of the franchise, so he might be considered more important than a WR or other positional player.


Maybe, but like I said, it's a real stretch. They would have to prove that the Hawks intentionally misled their season ticket holders into re-upping, for example, by withholding information that might have caused some not to make the purchase. If they had already made the trade and kept it a secret until after season ticket holders had committed while implying that Russell was still going to be on the team, then I could see where they might have a legitimate grievance.

I'm going with the A-hole, don't get mad, get even theory. This was an intentional slap in the face to Wilson and his camp. You want to tease everyone by dangling possible trade destinations, fine. We'll return the tease by writing you out of the script.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby jshawaii22 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:07 pm

Russell's 'omission' may of been Russell not being available or turning the team down. That would make him the "A-hole", which seems to fit the narrative more then the team not wanting him to participate.

By the way, it wouldn't be the first lawsuit over such as the 'star' not playing and ticket buyers wanting their money back. In the multi-act concert world, you will notice that every ticket states "Acts not guaranteed" meaning that if the headliner or even a "B" act doesn't play, you don't get your money back.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:15 pm

jshawaii22 wrote:Russell's 'omission' may of been Russell not being available or turning the team down. That would make him the "A-hole", which seems to fit the narrative more then the team not wanting him to participate.

What do you mean "turn the team down"? It's not as though they are in negotiations for a new contract.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:37 pm

Who knows what's really going on. They'll never tell us anyway. Likely the season will start and all this will be some offseason issue they dealt with in-house.

I know Russell will never give the team less than 100%. So I'm not going to worry about it any more until I have to. Russell never slacks and never will.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 1:55 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:I know Russell will never give the team less than 100%. So I'm not going to worry about it any more until I have to. Russell never slacks and never will.


I would suspect you are correct. Russell seems like the type of person that can compartmentalize his emotions, "ignore the noise" as he likes to put it. But we don't know that for sure.

Regarding that comment, I can remember when Cam Newton, one score down in the Super Bowl, refused to dive on a loose ball because he was afraid he might get hurt. A number of our defensive players, despite their obvious rift with Russell and the preferential treatment he received from management...the "not black enough" crapola...said that their quarterback would crawl through the hubs of hell to get that ball back.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:12 pm

Maybe, but like I said, it's a real stretch. They would have to prove that the Hawks intentionally misled their season ticket holders into re-upping, for example, by withholding information that might have caused some not to make the purchase


I don’t think it’s as much of a stretch as you.
With our super litigious society and people suing over every slight imaginable I can see a number of lawsuits being filed. And they would find out what was going on regarding his unhappiness. If it was deemed serious but ignored by the team they would have to pay out, not to mention all the money spent on lawyers and the possible black eye on the league. They just don’t need the hassle of all that.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:18 pm

Wilson wanted to upgrade the OL but as usual the top talent is being signed throughout the league while we wait to bottom feed.
Signing a bunch of former first round busts and journeyman players will again leave us with a second or 3rd rate OL. I don’t think this will help with Wilson’s perception of improving the OL unless they sign some good players soon.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:52 pm

And we downgraded the D-line losing Dunlap.

It feels like Pete has reached the same point Holmgren has reached where he has favorite players he likes to keep even if it isn't what is best for the team. Bobby at 18 million a year is too much. Good LBs are pretty easy to find. Good D-line very hard. We need a stronger D-line to be a top flight defense. Dominance on the D-line is a huge component of defense. You can be weaker on the backend if your D-line can pressure the QB and make a team one-dimensional.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby jshawaii22 » Mon Mar 15, 2021 2:58 pm

What do you mean "turn the team down"? It's not as though they are in negotiations for a new contract
.

It means that the team called or contacted Russell or his agent and said that they have a promotional shoot coming up and when can Russell be there and he turned them down. It's pretty straightforward considering what is happening with him and the team.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Mar 15, 2021 4:03 pm

What do you mean "turn the team down"? It's not as though they are in negotiations for a new contract
.
jshawaii22 wrote:It means that the team called or contacted Russell or his agent and said that they have a promotional shoot coming up and when can Russell be there and he turned them down. It's pretty straightforward considering what is happening with him and the team.

And that is what you think is more likely? Possible sure, but not nearly the most likely explanation.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:05 pm

The surely have a lot of stock photos of Wilson they could have used if they wanted to. As well they could have contacted him for some comments but that apparently didn’t happen either. It’s going to be a sad ending of what should have been a lot of success.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby TriCitySam » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:07 pm

As I've said before, seriously doubt anything happens with RW, and still wonder what the end objective was. With what looks like a really cheap UFA market (reports are reality will be 40 cents on the dollar of expectations), we may well see Dunlap back in the fold on a 1 year deal.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:13 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:And we downgraded the D-line losing Dunlap.

It feels like Pete has reached the same point Holmgren has reached where he has favorite players he likes to keep even if it isn't what is best for the team. Bobby at 18 million a year is too much. Good LBs are pretty easy to find. Good D-line very hard. We need a stronger D-line to be a top flight defense. Dominance on the D-line is a huge component of defense. You can be weaker on the backend if your D-line can pressure the QB and make a team one-dimensional.
s

Agreed about Bobby. His best days are behind him. We're paying him for what he did for us in the past, not what he can do for us in the next few years.

As far as the defense goes, we're not going to have a "top flight", ie top 5, defense anytime soon. There's just too many holes to fill. The only way it happens is if we do decide to trade Russell and end up with someone like Kahlil Mack and 3-#1 draft picks. The best we can hope for is a middle of the road defense ranked somewhere in the teens.
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