Paul Moyer Comments

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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Mar 15, 2021 5:23 pm

RiverDog wrote:Agreed about Bobby. His best days are behind him. We're paying him for what he did for us in the past, not what he can do for us in the next few years.

As far as the defense goes, we're not going to have a "top flight", ie top 5, defense anytime soon. There's just too many holes to fill. The only way it happens is if we do decide to trade Russell and end up with someone like Kahlil Mack and 3-#1 draft picks. The best we can hope for is a middle of the road defense ranked somewhere in the teens.


I don't buy this at all. Pete had built a top 10 defense in his second year and a top 5 defense by his 3rd year with more holes than we have now. He sifted talent, found D-line talent, and built one of the most fearsome secondaries and defenses in NFL history quickly by relentlessly sifting talent.

The defense was already improving in the second half of last year. We could easily be in the top 5 or top 10 if a few of these draft picks start working out rather than these Malik McDowell picks. Be nice to see Jarran Reed return to form.

Things can flip quickly. I don't know why you think it would take that long. This is the NFL. Teams change year to year.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Mon Mar 15, 2021 6:59 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:I don't buy this at all. Pete had built a top 10 defense in his second year and a top 5 defense by his 3rd year with more holes than we have now. He sifted talent, found D-line talent, and built one of the most fearsome secondaries and defenses in NFL history quickly by relentlessly sifting talent.

The defense was already improving in the second half of last year. We could easily be in the top 5 or top 10 if a few of these draft picks start working out rather than these Malik McDowell picks. Be nice to see Jarran Reed return to form.

Things can flip quickly. I don't know why you think it would take that long. This is the NFL. Teams change year to year.


In his first year, Pete had the luxury of two top 15 picks, one of which he used to select Earl Thomas. He doesn't have a first round pick for the next two years. In addition, he has not found any "diamonds in the rough" as he did with guys like Richard Sherman (5th round), KJ Wright (4th round), and Kam Chancellor (5th round), all defensive players that made the Pro Bowl. In his first two years, Pete drafted 5 Pro Bowl defensive players. Since then, he's drafted one (Shaq Griffin in 2019). He also didn't have a salary hog handicap like he does now with Russell, which allowed him to go after free agents like Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril. And he now has a prima donna quarterback demanding that he spend his precious resources on offense. It's wishful thinking on steroids to argue that Pete can "flip it" rather quickly. What ever magic it was that Pete had in 2010-11, he's long since lost it.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby curmudgeon » Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:21 pm

That “magic” was Scot McGloughan.....
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Hawk Sista » Tue Mar 16, 2021 6:55 am

I’ve heard people say that. He’s 50 and not with a team.... why? Bring him in, if he was that good??
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby curmudgeon » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:37 am

He had a well documented issue with alcohol. His talent for personnel though is/was undeniable. He built the 49er’s SB XLVII team before coming to Seattle....
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Mar 16, 2021 8:20 am

Doesn't he have a company that does the scouting for teams on a contractual basis?
Kind of like a hired gun so he isn't an employee in the sense of a Scout or Player Personnel director.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:18 pm

It looks like the Russell Wilson sweepstakes are just about over with, at least for this season. The Bears are signing Andy Dalton to a one year, $10M contract:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/310 ... r-10m-deal
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Mar 16, 2021 3:41 pm

Yep, 1 year so they can take a swing at Russ next year when we actually might trade him.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Mar 16, 2021 4:13 pm

RiverDog wrote:In his first year, Pete had the luxury of two top 15 picks, one of which he used to select Earl Thomas. He doesn't have a first round pick for the next two years. In addition, he has not found any "diamonds in the rough" as he did with guys like Richard Sherman (5th round), KJ Wright (4th round), and Kam Chancellor (5th round), all defensive players that made the Pro Bowl. In his first two years, Pete drafted 5 Pro Bowl defensive players. Since then, he's drafted one (Shaq Griffin in 2019). He also didn't have a salary hog handicap like he does now with Russell, which allowed him to go after free agents like Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril. And he now has a prima donna quarterback demanding that he spend his precious resources on offense. It's wishful thinking on steroids to argue that Pete can "flip it" rather quickly. What ever magic it was that Pete had in 2010-11, he's long since lost it.


Now we're referring to Russel as a prima donna. A guy who goes to children's hospitals to visit the sick. A guy who hasn't done anything to deserve this title. A guy who hasn't missed a game and has kept himself in shape year after year. A guy who threw for 40 TDs and ran for 2 last year and has been carrying the offensive load to get us to the playoffs since Marshawn fell off the edge and our defense fell apart. How ridiculous.

And that's all it takes to turn it around. Some good draft picks and free agent pick ups. We've always gone cheap in free agency. Even Avril and Bennett were cheap. So the salary cap hit of Russell won't stop us from picking up an Avril or Bennett. We did not pay top dollar for them.

The salary cap hit should stop us from the bloated player contracts like Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham who don't really fit what we do.

Maybe with the salary cap hits, they'll start sifting cheaper talent again like they used to. That's when they found the gems.

You're flat out wrong and a team with a few good moves and draft picks can flip this quick. The only reason they haven't is they're picking badly in the draft and not bringing in quality free agents instead trading draft capital for shiny players that don't work out. Which is why I would keep Russell and get rid of Pete if it were a choice because Pete in my opinion has lost his way. He no longer has the fire he had when he got here. He's instead holding onto past glories.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:20 pm

RiverDog wrote:In his first year, Pete had the luxury of two top 15 picks, one of which he used to select Earl Thomas. He doesn't have a first round pick for the next two years. In addition, he has not found any "diamonds in the rough" as he did with guys like Richard Sherman (5th round), KJ Wright (4th round), and Kam Chancellor (5th round), all defensive players that made the Pro Bowl. In his first two years, Pete drafted 5 Pro Bowl defensive players. Since then, he's drafted one (Shaq Griffin in 2019). He also didn't have a salary hog handicap like he does now with Russell, which allowed him to go after free agents like Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril. And he now has a prima donna quarterback demanding that he spend his precious resources on offense. It's wishful thinking on steroids to argue that Pete can "flip it" rather quickly. What ever magic it was that Pete had in 2010-11, he's long since lost it.

Aseahawkfan wrote:Now we're referring to Russel as a prima donna. A guy who goes to children's hospitals to visit the sick. A guy who hasn't done anything to deserve this title. A guy who hasn't missed a game and has kept himself in shape year after year. A guy who threw for 40 TDs and ran for 2 last year and has been carrying the offensive load to get us to the playoffs since Marshawn fell off the edge and our defense fell apart. How ridiculous.

And that's all it takes to turn it around. Some good draft picks and free agent pick ups. We've always gone cheap in free agency. Even Avril and Bennett were cheap. So the salary cap hit of Russell won't stop us from picking up an Avril or Bennett. We did not pay top dollar for them.

The salary cap hit should stop us from the bloated player contracts like Percy Harvin and Jimmy Graham who don't really fit what we do.

Maybe with the salary cap hits, they'll start sifting cheaper talent again like they used to. That's when they found the gems.

You're flat out wrong and a team with a few good moves and draft picks can flip this quick. The only reason they haven't is they're picking badly in the draft and not bringing in quality free agents instead trading draft capital for shiny players that don't work out. Which is why I would keep Russell and get rid of Pete if it were a choice because Pete in my opinion has lost his way. He no longer has the fire he had when he got here. He's instead holding onto past glories.

I agree. Prima donna is way out of line for Russ. How dare he show any ego at all? Imagine being concerned with his own legacy? It totally cancels out saying and doing exactly the right thing at every opportunity for 8 years. Russ has been nothing short of the perfect face of the franchise and I think the team is completely slapping him in the face right now.

Go to the team website. Without clicking anything just scroll down and look at all the articles and pictures ... Russell Wilson is conspicuously absent entirely. Not a mention, not a picture, even in the background. That has nothing to do with potential litigation. I'm seriously as disappointed in how the team is conducting themselves as I have ever been.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Tue Mar 16, 2021 5:59 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I agree. Prima donna is way out of line for Russ. How dare he show any ego at all? Imagine being concerned with his own legacy? It totally cancels out saying and doing exactly the right thing at every opportunity for 8 years. Russ has been nothing short of the perfect face of the franchise and I think the team is completely slapping him in the face right now.

Go to the team website. Without clicking anything just scroll down and look at all the articles and pictures ... Russell Wilson is conspicuously absent entirely. Not a mention, not a picture, even in the background. That has nothing to do with potential litigation. I'm seriously as disappointed in how the team is conducting themselves as I have ever been.


Yeah, well it looks like I'm not the only one that's way out of line with my appraisal Russell for the Seahawks to have resorted to such a childish act as cutting him out of their promotional material. I'm not saying that Russell is in the wrong or that the Seahawks are in the right. I'm disappointed in both.

I did read an article that said that Pete and Russell have talked several times during this episode. I hope that's true as it would be an indication that things might not be as bad between them as we're being led to believe. The last thing we need next season is for the two of them to behave as if they're in a shotgun marriage.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Tue Mar 16, 2021 7:29 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:I agree. Prima donna is way out of line for Russ. How dare he show any ego at all? Imagine being concerned with his own legacy? It totally cancels out saying and doing exactly the right thing at every opportunity for 8 years. Russ has been nothing short of the perfect face of the franchise and I think the team is completely slapping him in the face right now.

Go to the team website. Without clicking anything just scroll down and look at all the articles and pictures ... Russell Wilson is conspicuously absent entirely. Not a mention, not a picture, even in the background. That has nothing to do with potential litigation. I'm seriously as disappointed in how the team is conducting themselves as I have ever been.


That is no good. I don't know what's going on behind closed doors, but something is not right. It's getting annoying that Seattle is doing all these passive-aggressive moves. Pretty stupid if you ask me.

Not sure what is wrong with Pete and John, but hopefully these parties stop acting like this soon. Not great for the team image or leadership.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:24 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:Not sure what is wrong with Pete and John, but hopefully these parties stop acting like this soon. Not great for the team image or leadership.


I agree that it's not good for the team, but I'm as eager to blame it all on Pete and John as you and Cbob seem to be.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Mar 17, 2021 4:56 am

Didn't say it's all on Pete and John, I said prima donna is way outa line. And it is, it's a ridiculous thing to say.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 5:09 am

c_hawkbob wrote:Didn't say it's all on Pete and John, I said prima donna is way outa line. And it is, it's a ridiculous thing to say.


That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. In my opinion, Russell has been acting very selfishly lately, out of character for him, and prima donna is an entirely appropriate description of his recent behavior. I've been very disappointed in his attitude as much as I've been disappointed in the approach the Seahawks have taken in response to the situation.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby obiken » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:07 am

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. In my opinion, Russell has been acting very selfishly lately, out of character for him, and prima donna is an entirely appropriate description of his recent behavior. I've been very disappointed in his attitude as much as I've been disappointed in the approach the Seahawks have taken in response to the situation.


That is way outta line River! RW is the model of a company man, I never was. He put up with a lot of crap from Pete and the team. Sorry, what did you expect him to do?? Oh lets act like Andrew Luck, and when your body gives out and you cannot take it anymore because management doesnt want to pay for any protection, you quit! WE, almost all of us on this site, have been bitching and screaming for better weapons and an Oline for RW for 6 years, what has Pete done? NOT an freeking thing! I am almost 100% positive, that RW has addressed this in private, LONG before this. The only thing worse is TB who took massive pay cuts and the Pats had the gall to tell him that that is the most they could pay him, and all he wanted was to be loved! He told the Pats Adios Amigos, I am going somewhere else to win a title, and did. What does that make him River???
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby obiken » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:22 am

OBTW River, PC's vaunted defense has been slowly evaporating before our eyes, and now we have lost 2 major pieces. IF PC and JS dont sign Jamaal Adams, we to give them both the finger and send them down the road!!
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:58 am

I think Russ is doing the team and JS/PC a favor by letting then know he isn't happy and might want out and doing so with disruption unlike Watson in Texas.
Unfortunately we probably won't get maximum return on his trade value as his next move if he is really unhappy is to state he wants out and that will mean
we have less leverage when trading him. It seems to be the style our FO likes to play. Like Sherm, Bennett, and ET, where we waited too long to let go, we
are showing signs of doing the same thing with our most valuable trade asset.

Maybe they can patch things up, but it looks like there has been a lot of foul water that's passed under the bridge.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:02 am

obiken wrote:That is way outta line River! RW is the model of a company man, I never was. He put up with a lot of crap from Pete and the team. Sorry, what did you expect him to do?? Oh lets act like Andrew Luck, and when your body gives out and you cannot take it anymore because management doesnt want to pay for any protection, you quit! WE, almost all of us on this site, have been bitching and screaming for better weapons and an Oline for RW for 6 years, what has Pete done? NOT an freeking thing! I am almost 100% positive, that RW has addressed this in private, LONG before this. The only thing worse is TB who took massive pay cuts and the Pats had the gall to tell him that that is the most they could pay him, and all he wanted was to be loved! He told the Pats Adios Amigos, I am going somewhere else to win a title, and did. What does that make him River???


I'll tell you the same thing that I told Cbob: It's my opinion that Russell was acting like a prima donna, and I stand by it.

He did not have to take his complaints to the media. Doing so contributed to a toxic environment between him and the team and a negative image of the Seahawks organization just as we're heading into free agency. He did not have to let his agent dangle possible trade destinations as a means of trying to foist his opinion on the organization knowing damn well that the Hawks couldn't trade him if they wanted to as he had a no trade clause. His statement that he was "getting hit too much" seemed more of a concern to him than his failure to help get the team to the Super Bowl. Some of the things he's done earlier this season, like taking out a patent on the "Let Russ Cook" crapola, the talk about him and Metcalf becoming one of the all time best combos, seemed to me to be self centered and an unnecessary distraction to the goal of winning a Lombardi.

Those are all debatable positions and you can disagree with me if you like, but it's how I feel about it at the moment. That's not to negate all the good things that Russell has done for us or all of the humanitarian efforts he's made over the years, like regular visits to terminally ill children. He's still one of my all time favorite Hawks, but I'm profoundly disappointed in him in the same manner I'd be upset with a son or daughter that made decisions that I didn't approve of.

You can say what we want about Pete Carroll and John Schneider, but they've always been known as a "player's coach" and the Hawks have had an undeniable reputation as being a place where players wanted to come to. We've granted player's request even when they might have been detrimental to the overall goals of the team. If Pete and John are as upset with Russell as they appear to be, there has to be a pretty damn good reason for their angst. They're not going to just randomly throw him under the bus.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:13 am

NorthHawk wrote:Maybe they can patch things up, but it looks like there has been a lot of foul water that's passed under the bridge.


The fact that Russell and Pete have been in communication recently is a good sign that they'll be able to bury the hatchet and come together for a common goal of winning another Lombardi. But we're going to have to win. Winning cures a lot of problems, losing exasperates them. If we start out slow in 2021, this rift could get worse.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:03 am

I hope they get it patched over, but I suspect there is a big philosophy gap between the two.
Pete wants to keep it close and win at the end and Russ wants to score early and often.
It's like Pete is playing to not lose and Russ is playing to win.

On another note, PFT is reporting the Bears offered 3 Firsts, a third, and 2 starters for Wilson. They don't say who the starters were.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -starters/
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:07 am

I wouldn’t say he’s a bonafide prima donna yet, but he’s showing it to a degree. My biggest issue is he’s a $35 million QB that can’t push us over the hump in the playoffs. 2020 was the second time he put us in the hole with an early pick 6. He creates enough issues with being hit by holding on to the ball and looking for the big play. I saw Brady shred the Chiefs D with barely any big plays. Just consistent moving the chains and finding guys in space on time and on target. Russ needs to get over this stat hype and get back to just working the offense.

My main concern now is we might see Wilson complaining about the defense not holding leads. Hard to do that if the FO chooses to invest more dollars on offense. Gone are the days of winning games with less than 20 points scored and game changing plays on D being common. It was the same issue I had with Sherman griping about the offense when Kam, Wagner, ET, Sherman, and KJ had all been paid. Wherever the dollars are weighted most is where you have to have the most impact.

So if Wilson wants a bigger hand in dictating personnel and game planning, okay, fine, but you put an even bigger target in your back. I sure hope he can score 35 points a game. That’s bar he’s setting in my book.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:25 am

NorthHawk wrote:I hope they get it patched over, but I suspect there is a big philosophy gap between the two.
Pete wants to keep it close and win at the end and Russ wants to score early and often.
It's like Pete is playing to not lose and Russ is playing to win.

On another note, PFT is reporting the Bears offered 3 Firsts, a third, and 2 starters for Wilson. They don't say who the starters were.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -starters/

Watch for them to take another swing at him next year when we're not looking at a $39M dead cap hit to trade him.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby TriCitySam » Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:41 am

NorthHawk wrote:I hope they get it patched over, but I suspect there is a big philosophy gap between the two.
Pete wants to keep it close and win at the end and Russ wants to score early and often.
It's like Pete is playing to not lose and Russ is playing to win.

On another note, PFT is reporting the Bears offered 3 Firsts, a third, and 2 starters for Wilson. They don't say who the starters were.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -starters/


That's a BIG offer....obviously the Hawks don't feel there is an issue between them and RW that can't be worked out.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:02 am

That is a big offer. One that Schneider would have jumped on had they been serious about moving on from Wilson, I would think.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:54 am

We have to upgrade our Lines of Scrimmage. So far, nada on that front but Iupati, maybe/probably Center, DE, DT and all have to be replaced with 4 draft picks and only 2 in the top 130 barring trading down.
Trading down means passing by talent we may need in order to get more selections later and like last year there's no guarantee a trade down can be made or completed.

So with some large holes to fill, few draft picks, and inaction on the better players in FA it seems we won't be improving our team this year. Add in a disgruntled starting QB, and there is
a good possibility that we end up in 4th spot in the NFC West. The other teams in the division are all improving while we sit and do nothing.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:39 pm

NorthHawk wrote:I hope they get it patched over, but I suspect there is a big philosophy gap between the two. Pete wants to keep it close and win at the end and Russ wants to score early and often. It's like Pete is playing to not lose and Russ is playing to win.


If there was such a wide gap in philosophy, then why did Russell re-sign with us? It's not as if he didn't know what he was getting in to. That's one of the problems I have with Russell's role in this rift.

NorthHawk wrote:On another note, PFT is reporting the Bears offered 3 Firsts, a third, and 2 starters for Wilson. They don't say who the starters were.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... -starters/


Holy cow! If that's true, it would have been the biggest single trade in league history and had the potential to set us up similar to how the Cowboys set themselves up with the Hershel Walker trade. If that's truly the deal they were offered and Pete and John turned it down, then they must have one heck of a lot of confidence that they can patch things up with Russell.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby Aseahawkfan » Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:57 pm

RiverDog wrote:I agree that it's not good for the team, but I'm as eager to blame it all on Pete and John as you and Cbob seem to be.


What precisely has Russell done? He hasn't directly come out and asked for a trade. He didn't air his dirty laundry. The media took some stories and ran.

How do you know it's not Pete and John organizing the leaks to take shots at Russell? To threaten him with a trade? Do you know whether it was Pete and John who started the trade rumors?

Whose fault is it Russell wasn't in the team season ticketholder news letter or anywhere on the web site? Is that Russell? You have no idea who started engaging in the passive aggressive rubbish. For all we know Russell voiced his concerns to Pete and John, then they engineered this ridiculous campaign to make him seem replaceable.

Who am I supposed to believe? The guys who acted stupidly getting nothing for disgruntled players like Sherm, Kam, and Earl or the QB who spends time at children's hospitals and works hard to never miss a game even while being the most sacked QB.

It's not the first time Pete and John have played stupid games with top tier players then ended up with nothing from marquee pieces because they lost the game of chicken.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 1:05 pm

If there was such a wide gap in philosophy, then why did Russell re-sign with us? It's not as if he didn't know what he was getting in to. That's one of the problems I have with Russell's role in this rift.


Because they started to let him open it up then Pete clamped it down and when Wilson offered his suggestions how to fix some of
the problems he was ignored or maybe even told his input wasn’t wanted. Something caused him to leave the meeting upset.
And this after being the major reason they won their first 5 games while the Defense was a big sieve.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Wed Mar 17, 2021 2:41 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Because they started to let him open it up then Pete clamped it down and when Wilson offered his suggestions how to fix some of
the problems he was ignored or maybe even told his input wasn’t wanted. Something caused him to leave the meeting upset. And this after being the major reason they won their first 5 games while the Defense was a big sieve.


We don't know that "they started to let him open it up". Those were some gawd awful defenses we were up against in those first 5 games, like shooting fish in a barrel. There was not necessarily a plan to "open up", it could have just been a case of taking what the defense was giving them. And although it's fair to assume that something caused Russell to leave that infamous meeting upset, we don't know exactly what it was that pissed him off, only that it didn't go well.

Regardless, I'm not talking about the fall of 2020. I'm talking about spring of 2019, when Russell signed his contract extension. He knew the type of system that Pete ran. Russell has played for Pete longer than he's played for any other coach and should know him pretty damn well. If he was that uncomfortable about Pete's style of play, then why did he resign? Love him or hate him, this is the same old Pete that's been coaching Russell Wilson since 2012. Pete is not the one who has changed, it's Russell's expectations of his head coach that have changed.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby TriCitySam » Wed Mar 17, 2021 6:09 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:That is a big offer. One that Schneider would have jumped on had they been serious about moving on from Wilson, I would think.


From what I read, the Bears deal would STILL leave the Hawks hung with the $39MM cap hit - so a deal was never gonna happen. As for reworking RW's deal to get cap money, Clayton's comment was
"Doing a replacement deal with Wilson would significantly increase his cap number in future years. If the Seahawks or Wilson want to break their relationship next year, the dead money in the cap would prohibit any kind of trade". So we may have to go thru this pain all over again next year (ouch!).
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:19 pm

Dead Cap isn’t as much of an issue as Clayton would have us believe. Lots of teams are working around it like Philadelphia and Rams when they traded Wentz and Goff.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby obiken » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:25 am

NorthHawk wrote:Dead Cap isn’t as much of an issue as Clayton would have us believe. Lots of teams are working around it like Philadelphia and Rams when they traded Wentz and Goff.


I think whether you are in the Russ camp, or the Pete camp like River, we have to buckle down to the fact that this will probably be Russ's last year in a Hawk uniform.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:38 am

NorthHawk wrote:Dead Cap isn’t as much of an issue as Clayton would have us believe. Lots of teams are working around it like Philadelphia and Rams when they traded Wentz and Goff.


obiken wrote:I think whether you are in the Russ camp, or the Pete camp like River, we have to buckle down to the fact that this will probably be Russ's last year in a Hawk uniform.


I'm not in "Pete's camp". It's true that I have a natural tendency to default to the coaches' position in matters like the one we've gone through, but I've made a point to highlight my displeasure with his role in this fiasco and the mediocrity of his finished product over the past 6 seasons. Indeed, I've been called out by several posters in recent weeks for suggesting that we consider Pete's future as our head coach.

But I agree that at least emotionally, we need to accept the fact that this could be Russell's final season as a Hawk. If things go south this season, both parties could be eager for a divorce.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:16 am

We're finding out now who the two players could have been in the trade proposal from the Bears. The offer was for any two (possibly a third) of a group of players from which to choose, that included Khalil Mack and Akiem Hicks.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/ ... 6-Cm0VCe7o
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:33 am

c_hawkbob wrote:We're finding out now who the two players could have been in the trade proposal from the Bears. The offer was for any two (possibly a third) of a group of players from which to choose, that included Khalil Mack and Akiem Hicks.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/sports/ ... 6-Cm0VCe7o


3 firsts, a 3rd, and Mack and Hicks?
I'm not sure we could get a better deal than that if true. It would have upgraded our Defense by a large margin.
The problem would be how to get a replacement QB that isn't a turnover machine.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby c_hawkbob » Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:50 am

No, they evidently took a serious swing at getting him, no one could have offered more unless it was to include either a decent QB or a pick high enough to get us a QB this year.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:43 pm

Draft day trades might be in the cards this year. I’m not sure Pete would trade Adams as I don’t believe Pete used him the way he wanted last year having to make up for the lack of a pass rush. But you never know what they are going to do as they sacrificed a 2nd for Richardson and didn’t re-sign him and a 3rd for Clowney while doing the same. But they gave up a lot of draft capital for Adams so to me, it’s highly unlikely.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby RiverDog » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:10 pm

Old but Slow wrote:It seems to me that Pete thinks he can win Russ over, but he is going to need to do a lot more if it is going to work. First, I would trade Jamal Adams. He can bring us some draft picks and cap room needed. I would also consider trading Bobby Wagner, while he still has some value and is likely to command $18m when he next signs. He could bring some value from a team that has a young defense and needs a leader. We have spent a lot on linebackers and safeties and need to regain some balance. Find a good defensive lineman, or two if one can rush the passer, a cornerback and the defense has a chance.

The offense needs offensive linemen, a running back or two, and a slot wide receiver. The draft seems rich in receivers and offensive linemen, so more picks are vital.

If Pete drafts another linebacker or safety early, I will break furniture. My patience with Pete Carroll is running short.
S

Always good to see you, ObS.

I can't see us trading Adams. Given how much draft capital we gave up, we'd get the Boner of the Decade award for the most idiotic of trading practices to give up on Adams after just one season. I agree with you about Bobby, but unless he wants out, I don't see Pete or John dealing away a future HOF'er. If we were going to trade anyone, I could see us trading Penny if we were to resign Chris Carson. I'm not sure why we didn't trade him last season.
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Re: Paul Moyer Comments

Postby NorthHawk » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:39 pm

We are desperate for draft picks so maybe trading Wagner might be in the cards if they think Brooks can adequately replace Wagner.
I think the Jets might want him with Saleh as HC and having coached Wagner. He’d be good for a young defense who is trying to learn
a new defensive scheme and still has a lot left in the tank. I’d hate to see him go though.
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