Paul Moyer Comments

[obiken]

We are desperate for draft picks so maybe trading Wagner might be in the cards if they think Brooks can adequately replace Wagner.
I think the Jets might want him with Saleh as HC and having coached Wagner. He’d be good for a young defense who is trying to learn
a new defensive scheme and still has a lot left in the tank. I’d hate to see him go though.

NO way you replace a Bobby Wagner, first team All Pro! However, they are in a catch-22 with him. He is getting old and cost a fortune. The two pickups are a major upgrade at Guard and TE. I think our Center sucks, but has since Max got traded.

[obiken]

It is not easy for me to say to trade Bobby. He is my favorite. But the situation calls for dramatic action. What would Belechick do? I probably misspelled his name, but he likely couldn't pronounce mine.

What is your real name, Not that its remotely my business!

[NorthHawk]

It is not easy for me to say to trade Bobby. He is my favorite. But the situation calls for dramatic action. What would Belechick do? I probably misspelled his name, but he likely couldn't pronounce mine.

Who else outside of Russ could be trade bait? I don’t think Adams is a realistic choice because Pete loves Safties who have something a little different. Palomalu, ET, Kam all had a special quality and I think Pete won’t want to let him go so quickly.
So who else could be traded? There’s nobody on the OL that we can do without, the DL is too thin to trade away a player that can bring a good draft pick, no RBs to dangle, we need the WRs we have, so maybe outside of Wagner, Diggs might be expendable. Which would be too bad because he’s pretty solid.

[Aseahawkfan]

We don't need to trade. That's a major part of the problem: trading too much. Pete and John need to get back to working the draft, free agency, and sifting talent. Not trading for players. Trading for all these players that don't work out hoping for a quick run is why we're in the draft position we're in. That's one thing I wish Pete and John stop. When they got here they were all about young players competing for a job. Now they trade for Sheldon Richardsons, Carlos Dunlap, Percy Harvin, and the like for one to two years of service then walk for nothing. Where's that energy Pete had coming in where they were bringing in a ridiculous number of free agents to test them and finding gems like Chris Clemons and Marshawn Lynch for cheap. That energy is gone.

Now it's trade for some flash player hoping for a 1 year run. It's not working.

Pete needs to build up the defense young again like he did before. A young defense and experienced offense is the way to go. High energy, youthful, hungry defense. Experienced, savvy offense.

[NorthHawk]

They've traded away all but 3 draft picks. The only way to increase that is to trade down and maybe end up with 4 more picks in the 5-7 round range or to use draft picks from future years.
So give up a 2nd next year for a 3rd this year leaving us with no 1st or 2nd picks next year. We can't re-stock without draft picks and there are only 3 ways to do it. We currently have
#56, #130, and #208 to trade down with (2nd, 4th, and 6th rounds). The only thing left is to trade players if they want to re-stock via the draft. As we've seen, they aren't very active
in the FA market until the end where we end up with players that are cast offs or not good enough for other teams to fill holes.

[Aseahawkfan]

They've traded away all but 3 draft picks. The only way to increase that is to trade down and maybe end up with 4 more picks in the 5-7 round range or to use draft picks from future years.
So give up a 2nd next year for a 3rd this year leaving us with no 1st or 2nd picks next year. We can't re-stock without draft picks and there are only 3 ways to do it. We currently have
#56, #130, and #208 to trade down with (2nd, 4th, and 6th rounds). The only thing left is to trade players if they want to re-stock via the draft. As we've seen, they aren't very active
in the FA market until the end where we end up with players that are cast offs or not good enough for other teams to fill holes.

This year a lot of teams are cash strapped, so more players than usual are getting cut. We should be able to find some gems.

Remember Clemons was a cast off gem. Marshawn was a cast off when we picked him up. Bennett wasn't extremely sought after either. Some of these less popular players are sometimes extra hungry to prove themselves. Whereas the big name players are looking for the biggest possible contract thinking they're the man and don't have anything to prove. It's better to find those hungry players that still want to make a name for themselves if given the chance that work well within our system.

[jshawaii22]

Marshawn was a cast off when we picked him up

I wouldn't exactly call a player a cast-off when he cost us a 4 & 5. The story is that Pete loved him at Cal and JS bothered the GM of Buffalo constantly for months before they agreed to the trade. It may never have happened until Marshawn had an accident where he hurt pedestrians in Buffalo and didn't reder aid, but he wasn't cut or a cap casualty. He wasn't playing that good at that time, either. No Beastmode yet, that's for sure. Now, if you look at the Raiders picking him up a couple of years ago, now that is what signing a cast-off is all about.

Bennett came over because his good buddy Cliff Avril had signed with us the year before and he didn't want to play for Tampa Bay. Just because a player doesn't resign, doesn't mean he's a cast-off. It could mean he didn't want to re-sign with his team and choose to leave and come here.

I though Clemons was also traded to us by Philly for Darryl Tapp. To me, a cast-off has to be cut, a free agent or thrown in on a trade (more like the NBA does trades to balance salaries)

[Aseahawkfan]

I wouldn't exactly call a player a cast-off when he cost us a 4 & 5. The story is that Pete loved him at Cal and JS bothered the GM of Buffalo constantly for months before they agreed to the trade. It may never have happened until Marshawn had an accident where he hurt pedestrians in Buffalo and didn't reder aid, but he wasn't cut or a cap casualty. He wasn't playing that good at that time, either. No Beastmode yet, that's for sure. Now, if you look at the Raiders picking him up a couple of years ago, now that is what signing a cast-off is all about.

Bennett came over because his good buddy Cliff Avril had signed with us the year before and he didn't want to play for Tampa Bay. Just because a player doesn't resign, doesn't mean he's a cast-off. It could mean he didn't want to re-sign with his team and choose to leave and come here.

I though Clemons was also traded to us by Philly for Darryl Tapp. To me, a cast-off has to be cut, a free agent or thrown in on a trade (more like the NBA does trades to balance salaries)

Marshawn Lynch was the number 12 overall pick in the 2007 draft. He ran for 1115 yards and 1036 yards with 7 and 8 TDs respectively. Getting Marshawn for a 4th and a 5th was a veritable steal compared to what we've been paying for players of his caliber or less. That was the type of low cost, high reward move that made Schneider and Pete look amazing in those early years. Buffalo wasn't using him for much. At the time we traded for him, he was a player out of favor and riding the bench with his career dwindling down the drain.

Bennett was another move where we knew the guy. He didn't get any offers for more money. We signed Bennett to a 1 year 5 million dollar show me contract. Then signed him to a 4 year 28 million dollar contract. He did not have a lot of biters. We got a high level of production out of Bennett.

Maybe cast off is the wrong term. But let's say that we picked up a lot of high quality, cheap talent that other teams had either given up on (Marshawn) or weren't willing to pay what they were worth (Bennett). That is very different from now when we're making nutty trades like 2 1sts for Jamal Adams and more draft picks for players like Percy Harvin, Jimmy Graham, Sheldon Richardson, Carlos Dunlap, and Clowney that we don't even keep. Just wasted draft capital because John and/or Pete want to grab some flashy player that they think will push us to the next level because they seem to have lost their confidence in their ability to draft and develop talent or find cheap, effective talent like they did their first few years. Looks more like desperation than good management at this point. I wish Pete and John would find their way back to that hunger and insight they had in their early years.

[NorthHawk]

When was the last time we picked up a player like Bennett, Avril, or Clemons about 8 years ago?
I can't remember the last time we picked up a player that was a standout that we wanted to re-sign let alone get to Pro Bowl status or at least be considered for it.

[RiverDog]

When was the last time we picked up a player like Bennett, Avril, or Clemons about 8 years ago? I can't remember the last time we picked up a player that was a standout that we wanted to re-sign let alone get to Pro Bowl status or at least be considered for it.

That's one of the reasons why I've become so luke warm about Pete and John. What ever it was they had in the first 3-4 years of their tenure, they've long since lost it. There's been a few decent moves, like acquiring Diggs for a 5th round pick and the Clowney trade was a good risk, but there hasn't been any transactions or acquisitions anywhere close to the scale that they scored on early like they did with Lynch, Clemons, Bennett, and Avril, not to mention their poor draft results and busted trades we've seen over the past 6 years.

I'm not off the Pete bandwagon yet, but like I told Obi, I'm not in his camp, either.