Kaepernick in News Again

[Uppercut]

More Kaepernick meltdown mode.

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/12/09/49ers-quarterback-colin-kaepernick-pushes-cameramans-camera-walking-off-field-in-oakland/

[kalibane]

Yeah I saw this a couple days ago. And his post game press conference was a joke as usual. We kept trying to tell a certain person that there was definitely a difference in character between Wilson and Kaep, but nooooo we were just being homers.

I've been one of the few guys to stick up for Kaep (overall at least, I always hated his post loss interview style) but it's getting to the point where I start to wonder whether he's got what it takes between the ears (not talking about intelligence) to handle being a star QB.

[NorthHawk]

When things get tough, maturity and class (or lack thereof) show.

I still think he can be a very good QB if he's in the right situation. It's apparent SF isn't it at this point but it might change with a new coach.
Maybe he needed more time sitting and watching before taking the reins at QB, but we will never know now.

[kalibane]

He sat for a year and a half watching while being groomed by a supposed QB guru. If it's going to happen it will happen but if it doesn't happen, it won't be because he was rushed.

Hass serves as a good example, he sat and learned behind Favre and under Holmgren who is a bonafide QB guru for three seasons. He still struggled out of the gate. It wasn't until he got a certain amount of actual game experience until it really clicked.

Sure a change of coach may work but chances are that any good coach that comes into SF will not want to be saddled with a one read QB that they have to coach up, they'll want their own guy because their employment depends on having the right QB. Assuming Harbaugh and the 9ers part ways, Kaep is going to be on a very short leash unless the incoming coach is enamored with his raw talent and he sees him as favorably as Harbaugh does..

[NorthHawk]

Maybe he needed 3 full seasons to mature emotionally and had team success too early.
Sometimes good things happening too early can negatively impact development as they don't have to overcome challenges.
Then when it falls apart they don't have any experience to fall back on.

[kalibane]

Dude... Kaep was 25 years old when he took his first snap as a starter. He's older than Russell Wilson (who was old for a rookie due to his time playing baseball). If he still needs time to mature at 25, it's a problem. He came from a good stable financially secure family. He doesn't have a bunch of baggage from his upbringing like say Dez Bryant. There is no reasonable excuse for him to be emotionally immature at this point.

He just appears to have a little of that Jay Cutler in him.

[NorthHawk]

Who cares about his age.
Some people don't get their $h** together until their 40's.
The point I was making is each is different and if he wasn't ready to handle the success, he really wasn't ready to handle the failures and maybe another year of mop up duty and occasional playing time would have helped. Maybe he needs a Mike Singletary with Vernon Davis type moment.
It's all a guess on my and others part as to how he's really handling it and what is going on in their locker room.

[THX-1138]

I agree with what Trent Dilfer said:

Kap has been mishandled. His development has been neglected by the Niners. In college he was a different guy, apparently completely different attitude-wise. The kind of guy that we would have probably enjoyed watching play AND give an interview. There have been opposing QB's who I have respected and liked. But Kap has lately seemed like a dog that got caught with his nose in the kitchen trash. Just look at Harbaugh. When his team loses his interviews seem pretty petulant. As does Kap's. Not good when you are both the face and representative of your team. His development as a professional QB has stagnated and it all can't be attributed to being immature. JH should have him at least at the point he began as the starter. Kap has regressed. He now looks confused. The All 22 seems to indicate that the offensive scheme is only asking him to make one read and that still seems to confuse the kid. Even his play action looks half-hearted.

Seriously, I hope it's not too late to salvage this guy before he becomes a wash out. Such promise he showed. Really bad job, Niners coaching staff.

[Zorn76]

This was on local radio here before the game even ended, lol.

Like I said elsewhere - and what anybody can see who follows the NFL - is that the wheels have come off completely for the 49ers.

Lame duck coach, with a QB who knows his #1 advocate is out the door in a matter of weeks.

As for Kaep himself, I do think he can be slavaged with better coaching and, equally important, a better scheme. Who or what that will be, I dunno, but I don't think he's going the way of a complete crash n burn career wise. Could happen, no doubt, but I think he'll come around, whether it's in SF or somewhere else.

Regardless, we need to treat these guys as if they have a tied record with us. We all see what can happen the moment you take an opponent too lightly.

But, with all that's at stake, I do think we beat them, 31-13. If we get up on them early, watch out. That's where it could get ugly. We'll see what their character is for this game. They are at the lowest point they've been since Harbaugh arrived.

The 12's are gonna be NUTS for this matchup, particularly since we can officially put the final nail in the coffin, for both their season and ending the JH era.

Sweet:)

Go Seahawks!!!

[RiverDog]

Yeah I saw this a couple days ago. And his post game press conference was a joke as usual. We kept trying to tell a certain person that there was definitely a difference in character between Wilson and Kaep, but nooooo we were just being homers.

I've been one of the few guys to stick up for Kaep (overall at least, I always hated his post loss interview style) but it's getting to the point where I start to wonder whether he's got what it takes between the ears (not talking about intelligence) to handle being a star QB.

LOL. You've got that right. It will be interesting to hear if Futureite's take on Kaep has changed any.

[Distant Relative]

Krapperdick is a PUNK! I'd be embarrassed to have him on my team. Oh ya, and Harchoke to.

[Hawktawk]

Ive heard all about how intelligent Kap is, what a nice guy he is. I sure dont see it.Hes been an immature antisocial clown.

I suppose the coaching staff mishandled him. Hes an unconventional QB and asking him to sit in the pocket and go through progressions is never going to be his thing. His wheels need to be a huge part of the equation along with Gores wheels. But one read and hes still confused?Thats on him I think hes hearing footsteps, seeing the rush and not the field. Lots of guys get like that and they are toast. I see Kap as a Vince Young, Mike Vick type of guy. Superior athlete with a huge arm but an inability to lead a team or properly represent a a franchise publicly. I think hes like a meteor show, burned really bright for a while then PFFFFT show over..

[kalibane]

I don't even think it's the standing in the pocket thing to be honest. I think his issues (on the field at least) boil down to three things.

1. Progressions. He has regressed massively even just from preseason. When his first read isn't there he gets confused and starts forcing throws. He almost never hits his check down. It causes him to hold the ball too long and take too many sacks. His first INT against Oakland and the INT in the NFC championship games are perfect examples. He didn't take the sack but he did worse. He had check down receivers open but instead he forced the ball up the field into coverage.

2. His eyes come down when he scrambles for the most part. When Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson scramble, their eyes almost never come down, they are constantly scanning the field when the play breaks down looking for a receiver to break open. When Kaep starts scrambling his eyes almost always come down. He'll bring them back up if the rush isn't right on top of him but he brings them down and loses track of his WRs. He's not a strictly tuck and run guy. He'll look for receivers but only after he feels he's in the clear.. so again causes him to hold the ball too long and he takes sacks.

3. He never throws guys open. He has to see the receiver open and then rifles it in instead of anticipating where his WRs will break open enough to make the catch. Consequently he has smaller windows to fit the ball into.

Now because teams have adjusted to him somewhat, for instance the Raiders just didn't send an aggressive pass rush up the field... they played practically pure contain. He has gotten frustrated and he's even getting worse.

[Hawktawk]

I noticed his tendency to stare at a stationary target early on in his career. But he had such a fastball people didn't have time to react,He was so unpredictable, I compared him to a wild deer, that most teams couldn't get a handle on it his first 10-12 games(except you know who). In year 2 teams started reading his tendencies better and this season its like the defense is in the huddle they are so well prepared for his game. And one other thing. His tendency to lock on and throw late is HARD on the receivers ask Vernon Davis, Boldin etc so now they start tripping over the 40 or getting T Rex arms(Davis in exhibit 2). After a while guys get tired of selling out for an inaccurate or late QB because their career is the one being shortened.

[RiverDog]

I don't even think it's the standing in the pocket thing to be honest. I think his issues (on the field at least) boil down to three things.

1. Progressions. He has regressed massively even just from preseason. When his first read isn't there he gets confused and starts forcing throws. He almost never hits his check down. It causes him to hold the ball too long and take too many sacks. His first INT against Oakland and the INT in the NFC championship games are perfect examples. He didn't take the sack but he did worse. He had check down receivers open but instead he forced the ball up the field into coverage.

2. His eyes come down when he scrambles for the most part. When Aaron Rodgers, Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson scramble, their eyes almost never come down, they are constantly scanning the field when the play breaks down looking for a receiver to break open. When Kaep starts scrambling his eyes almost always come down. He'll bring them back up if the rush isn't right on top of him but he brings them down and loses track of his WRs. He's not a strictly tuck and run guy. He'll look for receivers but only after he feels he's in the clear.. so again causes him to hold the ball too long and he takes sacks.

3. He never throws guys open. He has to see the receiver open and then rifles it in instead of anticipating where his WRs will break open enough to make the catch. Consequently he has smaller windows to fit the ball into.

Now because teams have adjusted to him somewhat, for instance the Raiders just didn't send an aggressive pass rush up the field... they played practically pure contain. He has gotten frustrated and he's even getting worse.

Nice breakdown, Kal. I always like reading your analysis.

But which INT are you talking about in the NFCCG? If you're talking about the last one, the Sherman tip, IMO his problem wasn't taking the shot, it was that he underthrew it. He had plenty of time and downs available to where he didn't have to make that play, IMO he should have laid it out there so that the only person that could even touch it would have been his receiver. Perhaps that was his intent was but simply left it short. You can argue that it wasn't wise going to that matchup on that particular pattern as Sherman is taller than Crabtree and it would have taken an absouletly perfectly thrown ball if not impossible to get it over Sherman yet within Crabtree's reach, but I'm not sure it was his call as if I'm not mistaken, Crabtree was his primary target on that play.

Edit: Dear God, please forgive me for sticking up for Kaepernick.

[kalibane]

There was no place to put that ball Riv. There just wasn't. I don't know how many times Sherman is going to break up or intercept passes on deep sideline routes before people just realize you don't throw that against him. He has perfect technique. And the only reason it even looked close was because Crabtree got away with pushing off. If he threw the ball higher or longer it's just an incompletion. Maybe on an absolutely perfect tear drop throw at the back corner of the endzone with the WR doing their best Cris Carter imitation with the toe tapping was going to result in a TD, but that requires touch. Maybe. Even Aaron Rodgers would be lucky get that pass in there and he can throw with more than twice as much touch than Kaep could ever dream of having at this point.

When people say that if he threw it deeper it could have gotten over Sherman they act like Sherman was at the limit of his range or something. He would have just kept drifting back and riding Crabtree towards the side line. Have to realize that in order to get the ball deeper where the ball would still be catchable the trajectory of the throw has to change. QB has to put more air under the ball. And the truth of the matter is the longer the ball is in the air the more it benefits Sherman making a play.

That throw is more defensible if you were playing with a receiver like Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson who can out jump and actually come over the top of corners to pluck that ball out of the air before the corner can bat the ball away but Crabtree is not that guy, never been that guy and never will be that guy.

His check down was WIDE open. The right play was to check down use a time out and get three more shots at the end zone.

[NorthHawk]

It seems to me the QBs responsibility at that point was to
1) Make the correct decision
or if making the throw to Crabtree
2) Make the throw such that the ONLY person who could touch it would be his WR.

As it is, like your said, the pass would have been incomplete as Crabtree doesn't have the elite skills to make that play so it made it a very low percentage play by SF.
So it seems Kaep made 2 mistakes on that play.

[RiverDog]

There was no place to put that ball Riv. There just wasn't. I don't know how many times Sherman is going to break up or intercept passes on deep sideline routes before people just realize you don't throw that against him. He has perfect technique. And the only reason it even looked close was because Crabtree got away with pushing off. If he threw the ball higher or longer it's just an incompletion. Maybe on an absolutely perfect tear drop throw at the back corner of the endzone with the WR doing their best Cris Carter imitation with the toe tapping was going to result in a TD, but that requires touch. Maybe. Even Aaron Rodgers would be lucky get that pass in there and he can throw with more than twice as much touch than Kaep could ever dream of having at this point.

When people say that if he threw it deeper it could have gotten over Sherman they act like Sherman was at the limit of his range or something. He would have just kept drifting back and riding Crabtree towards the side line. Have to realize that in order to get the ball deeper where the ball would still be catchable the trajectory of the throw has to change. QB has to put more air under the ball. And the truth of the matter is the longer the ball is in the air the more it benefits Sherman making a play.

That throw is more defensible if you were playing with a receiver like Dez Bryant or Calvin Johnson who can out jump and actually come over the top of corners to pluck that ball out of the air before the corner can bat the ball away but Crabtree is not that guy, never been that guy and never will be that guy.

His check down was WIDE open. The right play was to check down use a time out and get three more shots at the end zone.

It was first down with :22 left and they were already well within striking distance with the ball on our 18 when Smith made the pick, so picking up another 10 yards or so on first down by going to his check down receiver was pretty meaningless unless he was trying to avoid a sack. If I'm the Hawks, I'd gladly trade 10 yards for the 10 seconds or so it would have taken to run it. If he had a better shot at the end zone than the one he chose, then yes, I would agree, the one to Crabtree was at best a very low percentage play given the matchup. But in that situation on a first down play, you want to take a shot at the end zone. IMO if he didn't have another better option in the end zone than the one he chose, he made the right decision in his selection but executed it poorly.

[kalibane]

Riv there were 30 seconds on the clock not 20 and he had two timeouts. That is way more than enough time to hit your check down and call timeout with 20-23 seconds and still have three shots at the end zone.

You're telling me that as a Seahawk fan you'd rather the niners had first and goal from the 10 yard line or so, with 20 seconds and a timeout than Colin Kaepernick taking a shot in the end zone against blanket coverage on a pattern that Sherman has more interceptions than receptions allowed over the course of his career?

And that's not a joke, I charted Sherman's games this summer when Future wouldn't give up the ghost about this play. When opposing QBs throw to a WR running a deep sideline route against Sherman he has intercepted the ball more times than he's given up a reception. If I remember correctly up to that point Sherman had only given up 3 receptions on deep sideline routes. I think Kaepernick himself has thrown 3 INTs to Sherman on those types of routes.

[Hawktawk]

The right decision there on first down was throw it away.He made thew wrong decision and got picked,Sherman gave his famous rant and Seattle went and kicked some Denver rear end. If it doesn't work its the wrong decision, especially when it ends the season.Then he targeted Sherman multiple times on Thanksgiving like doing the wrong thing more than once was going to change the outcome.

Kap is flat out dumb when it comes to football IQ and hes not getting any smarter dealing with the off field stuff either.

[Futureite]

Wow, lol, just reading these posts for the first time. When the going gets tough, some people pile on. Others jump ship (I am talking to you, SF Jersey burners). I still love the kid, man - however you want to characterize him - and I believe he can be a great QB. I am not one to jump ship. Actually hoping to go to the game in Seattle. Maybe one or more of you want to meet up before hand? You all clearly have the upper hand now, and us winning is a longshot. But I am ok with the ribbing. Coffee maybe?

[Futureite]

Ive heard all about how intelligent Kap is, what a nice guy he is. I sure dont see it.Hes been an immature antisocial clown.

I suppose the coaching staff mishandled him. Hes an unconventional QB and asking him to sit in the pocket and go through progressions is never going to be his thing. His wheels need to be a huge part of the equation along with Gores wheels. But one read and hes still confused?Thats on him I think hes hearing footsteps, seeing the rush and not the field. Lots of guys get like that and they are toast. I see Kap as a Vince Young, Mike Vick type of guy. Superior athlete with a huge arm but an inability to lead a team or properly represent a a franchise publicly. I think hes like a meteor show, burned really bright for a while then PFFFFT show over..

Eh, you have to realize that just 2 weeks prior Kap ranked higher than RW in nearly every meaningful category which one can use to rate QBs. Now obviously I am not going to come here and push the debate now, as it is no longer a debate. RW is better. But I am telling you - and have always maintained - your O is built around D and a run game. And it is a very, very basic O. The pass game is entirely predicated on RW improvising or hitting shallow, basic routes.

Now, I once stated that there will be a day when you do not have the #1 D and #1 run game, and that is the time that the lack of developing RW is going to hurt. LOL now, I am not so sure. That D may be great forever. And this formula may work year after year after year. But when you strayed from it, you had a 3-3 record and a QB that was not able to carry the team. It is not because he is incapable of doing so. Not because of ability. It is because he has never been trained to sit in the pocket, read a D, and run a traditional O. He may in fact rush for over 900 yards this year.

I have no problems whatsoever with the 49ers trying to "convert" Kap. Carroll has clearly chosen to do the opposite with RW and utilize his full skill set and put him in position to make plays now. At first I thought that approach was ridiculous. I viewed it as a complete "win now" approach with a QB at the expense of his longterm development or success. LOL, but maybe "winning now" means winning for the next 10 years .

[HumanCockroach]

Half of your post is inaccurate, and wrong. Wilson WAS taught to sit in the pocket, and was the style of offense BOTH college programs ran. Wilson has adjusted to what this team wants and needs. Maybe you have missed the time available, or the emphasis of offense, or are simply incapable of acknowledging the success he has had in the pocket both in college and in the pros ( hence a higher completion percentage, QBR when allowed to stay in the pocket instead of having to bail out do to pass protection problems) the idea that Kaepernick was EVER better is laughable, and many here explained that to you, your inability to "objectively" use an "eye test" is on you, so own it.

[RiverDog]

Riv there were 30 seconds on the clock not 20 and he had two timeouts. That is way more than enough time to hit your check down and call timeout with 20-23 seconds and still have three shots at the end zone.

You're telling me that as a Seahawk fan you'd rather the niners had first and goal from the 10 yard line or so, with 20 seconds and a timeout than Colin Kaepernick taking a shot in the end zone against blanket coverage on a pattern that Sherman has more interceptions than receptions allowed over the course of his career?

And that's not a joke, I charted Sherman's games this summer when Future wouldn't give up the ghost about this play. When opposing QBs throw to a WR running a deep sideline route against Sherman he has intercepted the ball more times than he's given up a reception. If I remember correctly up to that point Sherman had only given up 3 receptions on deep sideline routes. I think Kaepernick himself has thrown 3 INTs to Sherman on those types of routes.

You're right about the clock. I meant to say that there was :22 seconds left when Smith made the pick. My bad. Point is that they only had 3 plays left in that amount of time anyway so giving up a first down would have been pretty meaningless.

I don't think there would have been a discernible difference in the odds of scoring a TD on any given play from the 9 vs. the 19, perhaps even longer odds due to compressed playing field. You still have the same 10 yard x 50 yard area to protect.

If there was another receiver in the end zone to where Kaepernick could have taken a low risk attempt, then obviously I would have advocated that he take his shot at someone other than Sherman on the right sideline where he's almost unbeatable. But if it was the only end zone shot he had was to go after him, I don't think it's a bad choice if he throws the ball to where it is IMPOSSIBLE for Sherman to even touch it. In all likelihood, that would have meant it would have been impossible for Crabtree, too, especially the way that play developed, but so long as there was ANY chance, I would have taken it.

What we do agree on is that Kaepernick made a huge, fatal mistake (no duh!), our only disagreement is whether that mistake was in his play choice or his execution.

[RiverDog]

Wow, lol, just reading these posts for the first time. When the going gets tough, some people pile on. Others jump ship (I am talking to you, SF Jersey burners). I still love the kid, man - however you want to characterize him - and I believe he can be a great QB. I am not one to jump ship. Actually hoping to go to the game in Seattle. Maybe one or more of you want to meet up before hand? You all clearly have the upper hand now, and us winning is a longshot. But I am ok with the ribbing. Coffee maybe?

I'm thinking of going but I won't decide until Saturday evening. I don't have tickets but I might just buy one off one of the fans or a street vendor. If I decide to go, I'll send you a personal message with my cell phone number. My M.O. is to get in town by 8:30am, have breakfast at FX McRoy's, then watch the early games at Slugger's or Elysian Fields, both right behind the stadium between 1st and Occidental. It's a long hike for me, 3.5 hours and over a mountain pass but it's really warm up here now which has piqued my interest in attending the game.

[HumanCockroach]

In all honesty I don't think he had time to go to another read, if you look at the film or the stills Bennett was closing fast, and Kap was going to be running, the mistake IMHO was that the decison to go there to begin with, if they wanted a fade route into the endzone, they KNEW that Sherman wasn't following, it should have been a fade to the other corner ( not saying that would have worked either, but the percentages certainly go drastically up from where they are on Sherman, OPI or not).

Horrible call/ decision ( as I am not sold that it was the call from the sideline. To me it struck me as recognition of a one on one matchup, with the resulting decision by Kaep to throw it there) the Niners had two timeouts, and certainly could have gotten more than three plays accomplished in 30 seconds with them, but ultimately, the playcall and decision were poor.

I'm personally far more critical of the decision to throw it right to Kam earlier in the quarter than the decision to attack a man on man situation. Kaep folded in the fourth quarter, period, no two ways about it, and honestly, he HAS folded in every game he has ever played against Seattle, win or lose. He simply can't seem to be able to play mistake free football against this defense.

[Hawktawk]

The only game Kap has ever won against Seattle his own head coach had so little faith in him as a passer he called a QB keeper on 3rd and 7 late in the 4th. To their credit they picked it up and iced the game, albeit with an uncalled hold on the play. Kaps legs are the only thing remotely scary about him as a Seahawks fan. He isn't ever beating us with his arm. And a couple shots in the ribs from Wags and Cam Bam he wont want to run anymore either.

[Hawk Sista]

I think the NINERS are goin balls out in this game. They'll try to run Kaep and the will go for it on 4th down. They HAVE to win and they could if we do not stay home, set the edge and play sound football for 60.

[kalibane]

Half of your post is inaccurate, and wrong.

When has the truth ever gotten in the way of Future demonstrating his football IQ?

The running game/defense line of reasoning is so trite. Two words: Troy Aikman. Go look up that guy's gaudy stats and he had an infinitely better offensive line and receivers and yet ...first ballot hall of famer. So seriously... STFU

[monkey]

When has the truth ever gotten in the way of Future demonstrating his football IQ?

The running game/defense line of reasoning is so trite. Two words: Troy Aikman. Go look up that guy's gaudy stats and he had an infinitely better offensive line and receivers and yet ...first ballot hall of famer. So seriously... STFU

A very good comparison, what really irritates me though are the constant not-so-subtle, troll digs at Wilson's throwing from the pocket, with jabs like forfeit the future to win now, etc...

[monkey]

I have no problems whatsoever with the 49ers trying to "convert" Kap. Carroll has clearly chosen to do the opposite with RW and utilize his full skill set and put him in position to make plays now. At first I thought that approach was ridiculous. I viewed it as a complete "win now" approach with a QB at the expense of his longterm development or success. LOL, but maybe "winning now" means winning for the next 10 years .

What an incredibly STUPID way to view the two QB's and the way their coaches have chosen to develop them!!! If ever you've said something to disprove your claims of football understanding this was it.

One coach sees a talented, athletic QB who has a terrific arm, and is extremely fast and mobile, and decides to force him to become something he's not. The other coach sees a talented, athletic QB who has a good head on his shoulders, and is extremely good at avoiding pressure and extending plays, and decides to MAXIMIZE the talent that is there.
I don't even have to tell you which QB/coach is which, you already know.

All you can see is what you want to see, what you HOPE to see, some nonsense about Pete Carroll shortchanging Wilson's long-term development for immediate wins.

What a bunch of BULL!
Which QB's development (short AND long term) has been hindered?!? It sure as heck isn't Wilson's!!!

You can put all the smiley faces you like after your backhanded "compliments", you're not actually fooling anyone into thinking you aren't a troll.

[Futureite]

Kalibane;

RW is not Troy Aikman. Or Manning or even Matt Ryan. I would take any number of guys over him to run a prostyle O. I am not "trolling". Just giving my honest opinion. Yes, RW does make better decisions than Kap, and he is a better QB at this point (and may always be). But that does not mean that he is or has ever been built to play from the pocket.

Troy Aikman was a classic pocket passer - a big, strong armed guy with limited mobility. I like RW as a QB, but he is not a polished pocket passer. He is not a rhythm thrower. This Seattle O that he runs has been hashed out many times by many knowledgeable people. Cosell called it "rudimentary for the past 3 years" in a recent interview, and before the NFC Championchip game Dilfer stated that "they are running a college type O, trying to manufacture yards in any way possible" [paraphrase]. Many knowledgeable NFL people have made similar observations. One can see this with the naked eye, with no football knowledge whatsoever. RW is quick to leave the pocket, he has a lot of designed runs, and he makes the majority of his big chunk yardage plays from improvisation. The Thursday Night game was a microcosm of how he's played his entire career. He frustrated our rush and hit two big plays on TE/RB leaks or screens. That is what he has always done, with big splash playaction shots mixed in.

If it works it works. Who cares? You just won the SB. Again......he does not have to be anything other than what he is for the Seahawks to win. This is not to say he could "not" be a great pure passer, but it takes years to become that. If you read Steve Young's recent article, he stated that to become a great QB it takes (1) The right training or coaching, (2) Hours of meticulous study and training of the right training. Think about how long it took Drew Brees to become what he is after starting his career in a Seattle type O with San Diego. It took him years under Peyton to become who he is.

I do not see RW getting that training under Carroll/Bevel. And what I do see is that every time he struggles, they abandon ship and go right back to the D/Heavy Run/Read Option game plan. They are not developing this kid, at all. And it shows when he is asked to carry the O. Sure, he has games like the Ram game where his scrambling and improvisation kill teams. But he also has a lot of games like Dallas, where when his mobility is taken away, he just looks lost. I do think he could be a truly "great" QB - a Joe Montana - but not in this scheme playing this way.

Be happy your team will probably dominate ours tomorrow . Take care and enjoy the game.

[monkey]

Just because you don't WANT to see it, doesn't mean it isn't there.
Russell Wilson IS IN FACT a very good pocket passer. But we've shown you the statistics that verify that over and over and over again, you just refuse to see it, because you don't want to.
That's what makes you a troll, you take not-so-subtle shots at our coach and our QB, making un-provable claims that are NOT backed up statistically, then act all offended when you are called a troll...but that's EXACTLY what your comments are designed to do.

[kalibane]

Troy Aikman never threw for 3500 yards and never threw more than 23 TDs in a season w/o having rushing numbers to augment his stats.

If you were a reaslist you would have acknoweldged the fact that Kaepernick was one read Charlie two years ago but you refused. If you were a realist you would have acknowledged that Boldin wasn't a #1 WR but instead you called him a HOFer. If you were a realist you would have acknowledged that Golden Tate was a much superior WR than Kyle Williams, but you called them equal. If you were a realist you would have agreed that your corners are trash but you said they were good.

GTFO of my face with your "Future, the realist" schtick... Has there ever been a disagreement we've had over Seahawk/49er players where you weren't wrong?

Bye Felicia!

[Hawktawk]

[quote="Futureite"]

RW is not Troy Aikman. Or Manning or even Matt Ryan. I would take any number of guys over him to run a prostyle O. I am not "trolling". Just giving my honest opinion. Yes, RW does make better decisions than Kap, and he is a better QB at this point (and may always be). But that does not mean that he is or has ever been built to play from the pocket.

Wilson can throw every type of ball, dart, rainbow, deep ball, touch pass, screen pass(its harder than you think Hass never mastered it). Kap throws the missile. Its the only throw he has. Kap is Vick, Vince Young, a very athletic head case with a bad attitude. Wilson is Fran Tarkenton, Roger the dodger, a winner and a super bowl champion in his second season.He thoroughly outplayed Manning who looked like a rookie in the SB. Wilson was the real MVP and had completed passes to 8 different receivers by the third quarter, throwing every type of pass inside the pocket and out.

You're full of it up to your eyeballs Future, just making stuff up.Did you really say you would prefer Matty melts like ice on a hundred degree day?Mr 1 and 5 in the postseason?

Its laughable, ridiculous

[RiverDog]

Kalibane;

RW is not Troy Aikman. Or Manning or even Matt Ryan. I would take any number of guys over him to run a prostyle O. I am not "trolling". Just giving my honest opinion. Yes, RW does make better decisions than Kap, and he is a better QB at this point (and may always be). But that does not mean that he is or has ever been built to play from the pocket.

Troy Aikman was a classic pocket passer - a big, strong armed guy with limited mobility. I like RW as a QB, but he is not a polished pocket passer. He is not a rhythm thrower. This Seattle O that he runs has been hashed out many times by many knowledgeable people. Cosell called it "rudimentary for the past 3 years" in a recent interview, and before the NFC Championchip game Dilfer stated that "they are running a college type O, trying to manufacture yards in any way possible" [paraphrase]. Many knowledgeable NFL people have made similar observations. One can see this with the naked eye, with no football knowledge whatsoever. RW is quick to leave the pocket, he has a lot of designed runs, and he makes the majority of his big chunk yardage plays from improvisation. The Thursday Night game was a microcosm of how he's played his entire career. He frustrated our rush and hit two big plays on TE/RB leaks or screens. That is what he has always done, with big splash playaction shots mixed in.

If it works it works. Who cares? You just won the SB. Again......he does not have to be anything other than what he is for the Seahawks to win. This is not to say he could "not" be a great pure passer, but it takes years to become that. If you read Steve Young's recent article, he stated that to become a great QB it takes (1) The right training or coaching, (2) Hours of meticulous study and training of the right training. Think about how long it took Drew Brees to become what he is after starting his career in a Seattle type O with San Diego. It took him years under Peyton to become who he is.

I do not see RW getting that training under Carroll/Bevel. And what I do see is that every time he struggles, they abandon ship and go right back to the D/Heavy Run/Read Option game plan. They are not developing this kid, at all. And it shows when he is asked to carry the O. Sure, he has games like the Ram game where his scrambling and improvisation kill teams. But he also has a lot of games like Dallas, where when his mobility is taken away, he just looks lost. I do think he could be a truly "great" QB - a Joe Montana - but not in this scheme playing this way.

Be happy your team will probably dominate ours tomorrow . Take care and enjoy the game.

I'll agree that Russell doesn't play the role of a traditional pocket passing quarterback. That's not what he's being asked to do in this offense. But that doesn't mean that he doesn't have the tools for such or that he's not 'polished.' Although he doesn't have the elephant gun arm that Kaepernick has, his arm strength is more than adequate and he has very good mechanics with a short, over the top throwing motion, and I don't see any issues with his footwork. He compares favorably to Drew Brees, both in stature and well as in their mechanics.

As far as what kind of coaching he's receiving, that's always been a concern of mine since the day Pete was hired. Pete has not groomed many quarterbacks for the pro game, or at least done so successfully (although I suppose one could make a case for Carson Palmer). It's not his long suit, nor is it Darrell Bevell's.

[HumanCockroach]

Good Lord, what a dumb pointless debate. Truth is, that Wilson ran a pro style offense at BOTH programs in college, AND UNTIL there IS a consistent pocket in which to throw from, there is NO way for someone to claim he can't do it FROM the pocket. Seattles line has had so many injuries to the offensive line in the last two seasons, what Wilson has done is obscenely impressive, and anyone claiming he CAN'T do it, hasn't watched him, period.