Instagram QB's

[Anthony]

Ok I have to say this:

Are you seriously claiming that the guy who only needed to execute a freaking handoff to ice a game is more poised than the guy that failed to execute a 2 min 80 yd game winning TD against the D a good number of you laud as the best of alltime? On the road, in the loudest stadium in the league?

Lol wow. I mean, sometimes you should just take the bragging rights when they're offered. I was actually tapping out on this one, conceding that your QB is clutch and he has the ring now, or "one way or another he got it done".

wow you really are pathetic, Rw did not fumble the ball, Lynch did, you should go back and look at the play Lynchs hands were high by his chest, that is were RW put it, had he put it in his belly, it would have been dropped as Lynchs hands were not there. Heck Lynch even said it was his fault in an interview, which is rare for lynch do to an interview, saying he had his hands up to high. Not to mention the play to Kearse was the clutch offensive play period and RW made it, while Kap missed his. Enough said

To make it simpler Wilson has the 2nd most 4th qtr comeback wins in the NFL in the last 2 years while Kap is not even in the top 10. enough said again

[RiverDog]

Lol okay, well let's talk again when RW has had the ball in his hands with the team needing him to make a play in the playoffs to win. Because that didn't happen last yr. You are in the envious position of trying to get me to prove something "won't" happen - which is impossible. Whereas you can point to a couple failures and claim RW would have come through. So I guess, enjoy that?

Kaep actually had come through in the clutch, in the postseason. I'd love to see RW cone into his own stadium as an.opposing QB facing his own D to see how he would fare in any playoff game, or if he would have had Seattle in position to win the SB if your D had instead done a faceplant like ours did in the SB and given up 34 pts. We will never know.

Like I said, enjoy the bragging rights .

I would have thought that a big football fan like yourself would have watched the Super Bowl because if you did, you would surely remember how many third down plays Russell Wilson converted on in the first half before the rout began. I also kinda remember a 4th and 8 play in the NFCCG that put the Hawks on top to stay.

Clutch plays don't have to occur in the last 20 seconds of a game.

Lol the clutch free play, right. You are stretching it River, and your are intelligent to know it. Like I said, it's a losing argument for me because until the next time your guy is in position to win a playoff game there is no way I can prove that he "wouldn't have". Nor do I care to, because I believe he is a clutch QB.

That said, I find it highly unlikely based upon the way he played after getting the ball twice in the redzone in the 4th that he could have come into Clink as an opposing QB V your D and drive the length of the field for the winning TD like Kaep haf do do when he "choked". But like I said, I cannot prove that - maybe he would have - and so you have the bragging rights.

Notice I'm conceding the bragging rights lol, so why not enjoy them .

So which is it? Is RW clutch or not? You seem to be taking both positions. Or are you simply pulling a CP by tossing a turd into our punch bowl? Do you honestly want us to 'enjoy our bragging rights'? If so, then why the taunts?

I'm beginning to question your motivations. I like hearing another viewpoint from a different fan base and I don't mind you sticking up for your own guys, but I don't see the point of your creating a negative proof in saying that because RW wasn't in a situation in the last few minutes of the two biggest games of the season to prove to you that he's a clutch QB that he's not, and doing so in front of some of his most devout fans. Over the past two years, we've watched Russell engineer enough 4th quarter come-from-behind victories that we have seen plenty of evidence to conclude that he's a clutch player, more evidence than you can use to make the same claim about your guy, ie his failure to convert on his final play in his last two seasons.

[Hawk Sista]

The fact that Future is arguing w/ each person on several different fronts makes 1/2 of my point about the guy. The other 1/2 is made in the fact that the two decidedly different Instagram sites tell a story of the image each young man is "choosing" to show the world.

Defend ck7 all you want. I will take RW everyday of the week and twice on Sunday (3 times during a press conference & 100 times when left to his own devices in Florida)... Just sayin'

[HumanCockroach]

Even if that's the way you look to discredit what I said Future, it is an hollow argument. Wilson has had the ball in his hand to "win" a playoff game in the last two minutes, on the road, in a hostile environment before. The result was a 90 yard TD drive. Wilson hasn't as of yet, "lost" a season with the ball in his hands in 5 playoff games, Kaepernick has done it TWICE. If you want to profess that isn't what happened than again, your welcome to fantasy land. Is it you assertion that the SB also didn't come down to him making a play at the end, at the same area, with the victory on the line? Was Baltimores defense to much? Was the noise to great?

LMAO. It was an ACCUMULATION of mistakes for Kap in the second half of that game, whether it be poor decision after poor decision, or poor execution after poor execution. I feel comfortable with Wilson to rise to the biggest situation, Kap hasn't shown that yet. Simply the way it is.

[c_hawkbob]

First I have to disagree on a minor point with Anthony; a QB never adjusts where he puts a hand-off to where he perceives the RB's hand to be. Quite the opposite in fact. A QB is taught to always put the hand-off in the RB's breadbasket, just as deep as he can get it. The onus is on the RB to close his hands properly around the ball. A QB is way to busy to have to make such an adjustment! On that particular play Russ just blew the hand-off; bounced it off Beast's breastplate in spite of Marshawn's attempt to adjust his hands up to where the ball was delivered. As much as I love Russ, it ain't fair to Beast to try to put that one on him.

Now to my main point; Come on Future, as Roach has already pointed out, Russ has never failed to come through with the game on the line in a playoff game! The only playoff loss the man was ever involved in came after a heroic 21 point 4th quarter involving 3 completely clutch TD drives, the last of which gave us a lead and would have been for the win if the defense had help up it's end of the bargain over the last 30 seconds of the game. No matter how you try to stretch the truth of the matter you're just plane wrong.

I'm not bashing Kap as a player, never have ... as much as I think he's a bit foolish off the field the fact is as a player I like him, even his misguided chutzpah in daring to challenge the best CB in the game on the most important play of his career has an endearing quality about it ... but he's no Russell Wilson. Don't think he ever will be ... Deal with it.

[Futureite]

First I have to disagree on a minor point with Anthony; a QB never adjusts where he puts a hand-off to where he perceives the RB's hand to be. Quite the opposite in fact. A QB is taught to always put the hand-off in the RB's breadbasket, just as deep as he can get it. The onus is on the RB to close his hands properly around the ball. A QB is way to busy to have to make such an adjustment! On that particular play Russ just blew the hand-off; bounced it off Beast's breastplate in spite of Marshawn's attempt to adjust his hands up to where the ball was delivered. As much as I love Russ, it ain't fair to Beast to try to put that one on him.

Now to my main point; Come on Future, as Roach has already pointed out, Russ has never failed to come through with the game on the line in a playoff game! The only playoff loss the man was ever involved in came after a heroic 21 point 4th quarter involving 3 completely clutch TD drives, the last of which gave us a lead and would have been for the win if the defense had help up it's end of the bargain over the last 30 seconds of the game. No matter how you try to stretch the truth of the matter you're just plane wrong.

I'm not bashing Kap as a player, never have ... as much as I think he's a bit foolish off the field the fact is as a player I like him, even his misguided chutzpah in daring to challenge the best CB in the game on the most important play of his career has an endearing quality about it ... but he's no Russell Wilson. Don't think he ever will be ... Deal with it.

Haha like I said, you have the bragging rights. Wilson has proved he can do it in the clutch, and I take nothing aqay from his ring. There is no way I can say "he couldn't have done it" had he been asked to win inthe playoffs last yr, because no one will ever know. My main point was that hey, you have the QB title but maybe beat the drum softly. He actually struggled quite a bit v Saints and us, and threw 1 TD total. That wasn't exactly clutch to me, and oh man you guys would have a field day if Kap won in that fashion. But I cannot discredit RW because I do believe he is going to win most times when he has the ball late. He is great in the clutch.

[Anthony]

First I have to disagree on a minor point with Anthony; a QB never adjusts where he puts a hand-off to where he perceives the RB's hand to be. Quite the opposite in fact. A QB is taught to always put the hand-off in the RB's breadbasket, just as deep as he can get it. The onus is on the RB to close his hands properly around the ball. A QB is way to busy to have to make such an adjustment! On that particular play Russ just blew the hand-off; bounced it off Beast's breastplate in spite of Marshawn's attempt to adjust his hands up to where the ball was delivered. As much as I love Russ, it ain't fair to Beast to try to put that one on him.

Now to my main point; Come on Future, as Roach has already pointed out, Russ has never failed to come through with the game on the line in a playoff game! The only playoff loss the man was ever involved in came after a heroic 21 point 4th quarter involving 3 completely clutch TD drives, the last of which gave us a lead and would have been for the win if the defense had help up it's end of the bargain over the last 30 seconds of the game. No matter how you try to stretch the truth of the matter you're just plane wrong.

I'm not bashing Kap as a player, never have ... as much as I think he's a bit foolish off the field the fact is as a player I like him, even his misguided chutzpah in daring to challenge the best CB in the game on the most important play of his career has an endearing quality about it ... but he's no Russell Wilson. Don't think he ever will be ... Deal with it.

Haha like I said, you have the bragging rights. Wilson has proved he can do it in the clutch, and I take nothing aqay from his ring. There is no way I can say "he couldn't have done it" had he been asked to win inthe playoffs last yr, because no one will ever know. My main point was that hey, you have the QB title but maybe beat the drum softly. He actually struggled quite a bit v Saints and us, and threw 1 TD total. That wasn't exactly clutch to me, and oh man you guys would have a field day if Kap won in that fashion. But I cannot discredit RW because I do believe he is going to win most times when he has the ball late. He is great in the clutch.

Ahh Rw did win in the playoffs last year and in the clutch 4th and 7 remember. As to his struggling against the saints and you guys, he had a QB rating of 104 against you guys that is not struggling. Struggling is Kap and his 56 QB rating against us. While he did indeed only throw for 1 TD in the thos e2 games how many of the other TDs were set up by his passing? Answer 2 of the 4 tds we scored in those 2 games do not happen without Rw making a play. As to not clutch to you, its a good thing we really do not care what you think is clutch, that 4th and 7 was very clutch and was the game winning score, in the 4th qtr and is the definition of clutch.

[RiverDog]

Ahh Rw did win in the playoffs last year and in the clutch 4th and 7 remember. As to his struggling against the saints and you guys, he had a QB rating of 104 against you guys that is not struggling. Struggling is Kap and his 56 QB rating against us. While he did indeed only throw for 1 TD in the thos e2 games how many of the other TDs were set up by his passing? Answer 2 of the 4 tds we scored in those 2 games do not happen without Rw making a play. As to not clutch to you, its a good thing we really do not care what you think is clutch, that 4th and 7 was very clutch and was the game winning score, in the 4th qtr and is the definition of clutch.

Anthony makes a good point. How in the world can you claim that a quarterback that completes 64% of his passes, no interceptions, and connects on a 4th and 7, game winning 4th quarter touchdown pass "struggled"? By what standards are you judging him by?

[burrrton]

By what standards are you judging him by?

Raw # of TD passes. Because that's the only way he can make what, at this point, is a ridiculous argument (that RW hasn't been 'clutch')- by arguing he only threw 1 TD pass in a couple of games against two of the better defenses in the league, and ignoring the rest of the stats and what was required to get the win.

[RiverDog]

By what standards are you judge him by?

Raw # of TD passes. Because that's the only way he can make what, at this point, is a ridiculous argument (that RW hasn't been 'clutch')- by arguing he only threw 1 TD pass in a couple of games against two of the better defenses in the league, and ignoring the rest of the stats and what was required to get the win.

Futureite is playing both sides of the fence on this subject so he can cover all his bets. First he says Wilson hasn't performed in the clutch, that things like his 3rd down conversions in the first half of the SB don't count. Then he covers his tracks and changes his story by says he's clutch. Now he's saying that Wilson "struggled" in the NFCCG, which I'm sure he'll have to come in here and re-state is position.

What's up with that chit, Futureite? Is Wilson a clutch player or not? Did he play well in the NFCCG or did he struggle? You're all over the board on this one.

[Futureite]

Ahh Rw did win in the playoffs last year and in the clutch 4th and 7 remember. As to his struggling against the saints and you guys, he had a QB rating of 104 against you guys that is not struggling. Struggling is Kap and his 56 QB rating against us. While he did indeed only throw for 1 TD in the thos e2 games how many of the other TDs were set up by his passing? Answer 2 of the 4 tds we scored in those 2 games do not happen without Rw making a play. As to not clutch to you, its a good thing we really do not care what you think is clutch, that 4th and 7 was very clutch and was the game winning score, in the 4th qtr and is the definition of clutch.

Anthony makes a good point. How in the world can you claim that a quarterback that completes 64% of his passes, no interceptions, and connects on a 4th and 7, game winning 4th quarter touchdown pass "struggled"? By what standards are you judging him by?

Ok, when a QB opens a game with a fumble and ends it with a fumble, what do you call that? You can cite all the numbers you like, but how many times did he have the ball in the redzone in the 2 playoff games and came away with nothing? Sorry, but RW's struggles were a national story line heading into the NFCCCG and even Aikman said as late as the 3rd qtr that he was throwing late and not anticipating throws. I am trying as hard as I can to give the guy credit, but you kerp pushing the envelope.

You keep talking about Kap imploding. What happened to RW in 2012 down 13-6 late in the 4th v us? Sack/safety. What happened last yr when he could have at the very least thrown a couple balls to put you in fg position to beat us late? INT. I even turned to my dad and asked why he chucked that ball. The guy hasn't done a damn thing V our D either - hasn't even topped 200 yds passing - and especially late on the road, but you constantly chide Kap for the making same mistakes under much more pressure. I would like to see RW one game v our D where Lynch is getting shut down like your D does to Gore, and all the pressure falls on RW. That never happens because Lynch is bailing out his 1-11 start with well over 100 or ripping off 40+ yd tds to tie the game.

I admit our QB has made mistakes. I even conceded the title to you. But you are trying to paint what everyone watched as something other than what it was. I could make a much, much better argument for Alex Smith as postseason clutch, by numbers and performance (9 tds 0 ints, 2 300 yd games, QB rating above 105), but you'd not buy it anymore than the bill of goids you're trying to sell me.

Why not just accept the bragging rights and move on. Your guy got it done, ours didn't.

[burrrton]

Ok, when a QB opens a game with a fumble and ends it with a fumble, what do you call that?

If nothing else is known about the game, I call that "two fumbles".

I am trying as hard as I can to give the guy credit, but you kerp pushing the envelope.

Please. Your "trying to give him credit" is criticizing nonsensically, then doing a superficial retreat by ending with "but yeah, I really do think he's clutch."

Again, I think it's kinda dumb to argue about "clutch", but I think it's a given that "clutch" is *not* putting up big numbers in a vacuum (was Manning "clutch" in XLVIII?), nor is it committing a fumble or INT in a vacuum.

*When* it happens, it seems to me, makes all the difference.

[Futureite]

By what standards are you judge him by?

Raw # of TD passes. Because that's the only way he can make what, at this point, is a ridiculous argument (that RW hasn't been 'clutch')- by arguing he only threw 1 TD pass in a couple of games against two of the better defenses in the league, and ignoring the rest of the stats and what was required to get the win.

Futureite is playing both sides of the fence on this subject so he can cover all his bets. First he says Wilson hasn't performed in the clutch, that things like his 3rd down conversions in the first half of the SB don't count. Then he covers his tracks and changes his story by says he's clutch. Now he's saying that Wilson "struggled" in the NFCCG, which I'm sure he'll have to come in here and re-state is position.

What's up with that chit, Futureite? Is Wilson a clutch player or not? Did he play well in the NFCCG or did he struggle? You're all over the board on this one.

Stop it. Give it a rest with the SB. RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs. I am not arguing whether he is clutch or not. I am arguing the specific examples that you are using to prove it - and you know that River. The guy was under ZERO pressure to make any play this entire postseason, and definitely not on a free play on 4th and 8. That is why it us called a "free" play; because you have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. That specific pass should have been the easiest on he threw all night.

Does that mean he is NOT a clutch QB? NO. Obviously it does not. It means your examples of it are not very good lol. It means he did not have to prove it. It means that the circumstances you want to rake one guy over the goals for failing to overcone were far more treacherous than the ones which the guy who won performed under. It means a lot if things other than what you are claiming I am attempting to state.

You want to hold your QB to a higher standard and claim others crack, well what happened at the end of the Cards' game? Why did the guy with "it" pull a Krappernick and toss an int? Why did the "it" factor get the ball over, and over again late V Hou late and not even move the chains until a penalty put them in FG position? Thst's a real Chokernip there. Or why did "it" pull a Krapperdick V the Colts and throw 4 straight incompletions to lose the game ending in an INT?

See, only Chokernip does these things and clearly, RW has the superior mindset that would have won the game v your D on an 80 yd drive for a TD. Because RW has never thrown an int in that situation.

YES. I do believe they are both clutch. But my standard is a bit more realistic than yours.

[burrrton]

But my standard is a bit more realistic than yours.

Says the guy yelling "WHY DIDN'T HE GO 19-0 IF HE'S SO CLUTCH?!?"

Future, nobody, at least not me, is arguing RW hasn't come up short at times. In fact, I think the last fumble in the NFCCG is fair to hold against him.

However, whether or not you get your team to the W, and what you do to that end, is what being 'clutch' is all about.

In the NFCCG, we were down, but there was an overwhelming feeling the game was still ours to most fans I know. You know why? Because we knew RW was going to do what he's made a habit of doing and pull it out if he needed to.

What did he do? He got your Pro-Bowl DE to jump, then threw a TD pass. VOILA! He *made* it a free play- he made sure his O-line was well-aware of his impending hard-count ("Can you hold your water, Carp??"), and he executed both it and the TD pass.

That's a prime example of clutch play from a QB*.

Again, I'm not going to argue every dmn game illustrates his 'clutch' behavior, nor that he's never come up short in that regard, but your arguments against him, and trying to prop Kaep up to his level, at least at this point, is nonsense.

*Not to take anything away from the great catch by Kearse, etc.

[HumanCockroach]

Be happy to provide some actual facts for you Future.

RW

Post season QB rating: 102 ( 104 vs the Niners in the NFCCG)

52 TD's to 22 ints

Postseason record : 4-1

Kap

Post season QB rating: 87.4 ( 72 rating against Seahawks in NFCCG, by FAR the best game he has ever played against Seattle)

40 Tds to 17 ints

One of those is simply better, remove the names if you need help figuring out which one that is. "Clutch" means that a team doesn't have to win DESPITE the play of that player. You can keep telling yourself and us, that that is what Seattle does with Wilson, but they don't, and you can keep telling yourself that it wasn't Kaepernick fumbling, and throwing picks against Seattle ( which he has done in EVERY game he has played them, home and away) but it was.

Wilson didn't "throw a TD against the Saints"? Are you f-ing serious? You OBVIOUSLY weren't watching the game OR the weather conditions. WHEN Seattle NEEDED the play to win the game, guess who made it? Why yep it was Wilson with the call and the throw. Down 21 in the fourth against Atlanta, on the road, in a "hostile" environment? No problem, just engineer the BIGGEST come back in NFL playoff history.

You can continue to profess Kaeperniks "clutch" play in "big" games, but by my count, he's 0-2, Wilson is 1 for 1. How ANYONEthat watched some of the greatest, clutch QB's in HISTORY can continue to defend Kaep's "clutch" play after the last two seasons is simply beyond me. Either you weren't watching, or your seriously confused about the meaning of the word. Kaep has NOT been "clutch" in the post season, period. He ran for all those yards on GB and came back, whoopity do dah, he PUT them in the hole to BEGIN with because of his poor play, he won in Lambeau, yee haw, he also tried to THROW the game away with another STUPID throw in the DB's bread basket, while TRAILING that would have been returned for a pick six. Kaepernick puts 4 balls in Panthers DB's hands, all dropped. He keeps making bad decisions, and bad throws in the post season. That isn't clutch by ANY stretch of the imagination.

I recommend you use your "eye test" again, and if it isn't clear at that point, I'd have them checked.

[Hawk Sista]

Future was, is, and always will be a guy who is out to get our collective goat. He entices y'all w/ dialogue that has the appearance of objectivity, followed quickly by obvious hyperbolized bias for the purpose of reeling us in. Why anyone, myself included, gives him the time of day - I'll never know. I will give him props though; his smarmy, passive aggressive style does not merit a response, yet just like a moth to a flame... We flit around & join in.

Bravo, future.... You are winning this round.

[Anthony]

Stop it. Give it a rest with the SB. RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs. I am not arguing whether he is clutch or not. I am arguing the specific examples that you are using to prove it - and you know that River. The guy was under ZERO pressure to make any play this entire postseason, and definitely not on a free play on 4th and 8. That is why it us called a "free" play; because you have absolutely nothing to lose and everything to gain. That specific pass should have been the easiest on he threw all night.

Does that mean he is NOT a clutch QB? NO. Obviously it does not. It means your examples of it are not very good lol. It means he did not have to prove it. It means that the circumstances you want to rake one guy over the goals for failing to overcone were far more treacherous than the ones which the guy who won performed under. It means a lot if things other than what you are claiming I am attempting to state.

You want to hold your QB to a higher standard and claim others crack, well what happened at the end of the Cards' game? Why did the guy with "it" pull a Krappernick and toss an int? Why did the "it" factor get the ball over, and over again late V Hou late and not even move the chains until a penalty put them in FG position? Thst's a real Chokernip there. Or why did "it" pull a Krapperdick V the Colts and throw 4 straight incompletions to lose the game ending in an INT?

See, only Chokernip does these things and clearly, RW has the superior mindset that would have won the game v your D on an 80 yd drive for a TD. Because RW has never thrown an int in that situation.

YES. I do believe they are both clutch. But my standard is a bit more realistic than yours.

again Future your facts are incorrect as usual, we were up 2 to nothing when Rw led drive netting us a FG, during that drive he had key 3rd down conversions to keep the drive alive, only o-line penalties stopped them form getting more. we were up only 5 nothing when he again led a drive betting us a FG, which again should have been more if not for o-line penalties, in that drive he again converted key third downs without which no FG. We were then up 8 when Wilson led us on a drive that was capped off by a 1 yard TD run by Lynch. however in that drive again Wilson made critical passes, to include what would have been a TD except for defensive pass interference which put the ball on the 1 yard line for lynch. So again every score till up to that point Wilson was essential in getting us. So nice try as of now pretty much anything you say is crap. As to the rest of your crap, hate to tell you no matter how clutch you are you also will fail on some. The fat that he has the 2nd most 4th qtr comebacks in the last 2 years says he succeeds way more than he fails. By the way Kap in not even in the top 10 in that category.

[RiverDog]

RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs.

And by that time the Seahawk offense had converted on 5 of 7 3rd down plays...4 of them by RW passes, one by penalty.

Russell Wilson kept his defense rested and the Denver offense on the sidelines until it was too late.

[burrrton]

Bravo, future.... You are winning this round.

It's the offseason- it doesn't take much to get people to bite when there's little else to talk about!

[burrrton]

The fat that he has the 2nd most 4th qtr comebacks in the last 2 years says he succeeds way more than he fails.

It's also worth stating that I'm not sure this is the most fair metric to judge on- you have to be trailing in the 4th to have the opportunity.

I'd be interested in seeing the rate of success (assuming a sufficient # of opportunities).

[burrrton]

RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs.

And by that time the Seahawk offense had converted on 5 of 7 3rd down plays...4 of them by RW passes, one by penalty.

Russell Wilson kept his defense rested and the Denver offense on the sidelines until it was too late.

++

[kalibane]

You can pretty much take any starting level or better NFL QB and cherry pick times when they came through at the end of the game or fell short at the end of the game. They wouldn't be starting level NFL QBs if they couldn't ever perform and they wouldn't be human if they never failed. Michael Jordan and Larry Bird didn't hit all their game winners. Joe Montana and John Elway didn't win every game they had a chance to with the ball in their hands. It comes down to a body of work and essentially not crumbling under the pressure. And not all failures are equal.

Throwing an interception when you only have time to throw the ball into the endzone at greater risk than usual is not equal throwing a ball into the hands of an opposing player because you made a poor read. A interception off a tipped ball is not equal to forcing a ball into coverage.

Tony Romo has engineered game winning drives. He had one last year against the Lions. That doesn't change the fact that he has a tendancy to implode spectacularly when in those situations in the biggest games.

Trying to cherry pick that Arizona game is completely laughable. And has got to be the worst reference pull in this entire thread. For one it was a poor call. It should have been ruled an incomplete pass because it bounced off the ground. For two even if you claim it bounced off Baldwin's hand and not the ground, the interception came as a result of the deflection, something Wilson has no control over. He put the ball where in a spot where no Cardinal could directly intercept the ball. This is one of those interceptions that's on the WR if it's on anyone and again it should have been ruled incomplete. If that's the worst turnover you can point to you have no case. It's not at all comparable to turning the ball over 3 times in the 2nd half and throwing a completely inadvisable pass at the best corner in the NFL when you had a wide open man on the other side if you had just gone through your progression.

Now I wouldn't characterize Kaepernick as a choke artist... but he also falls short of "clutch". He should have lost the Green Bay game only their DB dropped a pick six that was thrown right in his hands. He lost the NFC championship game with his turnovers down the stretch. But on the other hand he has also shown some resilience like the Patriots game in 2012 and after being gifted with that dropped interception he completed the drive against Green Bay.

Russell Wilson doesn't have complete and utter collapses on his record. Every time he has the ball in his hands with the game on the line I believe he's going to make the right plays to put the team in position to win. I'm completely comfortable with the Seahawks being down 6 with 90 seconds to go and 80 yards to drive.

P.S. Keep trying to minimize the fact that RW had a free play as if RW didn't draw the defense offsides and then recognize that he had a free play. That's what good QBs do. That's part of being present in the moment a/k/a "clutch". Also just forget the fact that he practically the same throw to Kearse in the Superbowl up 5-0, placing the ball perfectly and only a great play by the Denver defender preventing Kearse from holding onto the ball negated the TD and forced a FG attempt. Which invalidates your assertion that the only reason he made that throw in the NFCCG was because he had a free play.

And don't worry Future, I am enjoying having the bragging rights. That's what I'm doing right now. Bragging about how Russell Wilson is better in the clutch than Colin Kaepernick which is the reason why the Seahawks hoisted the Lombardi and not Denver or SF.

[NorthHawk]

To steer the topic slightly off course, Wilson is the biggest bargain in the NFL - and will be for the next season.

[Eaglehawk]

To steer the topic slightly off course, Wilson is the biggest bargain in the NFL - and will be for the next season.

Nah you're not off course, I think this thread was off course a bit, but then that's just me.

Now you turned it back on course. Thanks.

And yes agreed, Wilson was a steal.

[RiverDog]

RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs.

And by that time the Seahawk offense had converted on 5 of 7 3rd down plays...4 of them by RW passes, one by penalty.

Russell Wilson kept his defense rested and the Denver offense on the sidelines until it was too late.

++

One other thing: The Seahawks never punted in the first half. Our drives went like this: FG, FG, TD, End of Half.

Now you want to keep on arguing about his 90 yards and no TD passes?

[Futureite]

RW was up 29-0 by the time he threw for 90 yds and 0 TDs.

And by that time the Seahawk offense had converted on 5 of 7 3rd down plays...4 of them by RW passes, one by penalty.

Russell Wilson kept his defense rested and the Denver offense on the sidelines until it was too late.

++

One other thing: The Seahawks never punted in the first half. Our drives went like this: FG, FG, TD, End of Half.

Now you want to keep on arguing about his 90 yards and no TD passes?

Yes and the game started like this: "safety" "great field position" "Harvin great run". Your entire team set the tone and dominated from the first play. RW made some decent throws but you still kicked fgs early. Denver's D is a joke. This does not support your premise, even slightly.

But we can disagree on this and Kap can be the choker. I am conceding and looming forward to this schedule. Looks like some great games.

[burrrton]

RW made some decent throws

Future, he didn't make "some decent throws"- he gobbled them up.

You can try to dismiss only being up 8 or whatever early, but that undermines your point.

He started slowly, but when you've had all those chances and are only up a score, *THAT'S WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON*, and that's when he excelled.

I'm sorry, but you simply don't have a leg to stand on. RW has been as 'clutch' as any young QB in history. Will it continue? Who the h3ll knows. But that doesn't help you now.

Your entire team set the tone

Wrong. The offense didn't "set the tone" in any manner that would lessen the pressure. They produced, to their credit, but they didn't put the game out of reach for chrissakes.

[Futureite]

RW made some decent throws

Future, he didn't make "some decent throws"- he gobbled them up.

You can try to dismiss only being up 8 or whatever early, but that undermines your point.

He started slowly, but when you've had all those chances and are only up a score, *THAT'S WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON*, and that's when he excelled.

I'm sorry, but you simply don't have a leg to stand on. RW has been as 'clutch' as any young QB in history. Will it continue? Who the h3ll knows. But that doesn't help you now.

Your entire team set the tone

Wrong. The offense didn't "set the tone" in any manner that would lessen the pressure. They produced, to their credit, but they didn't put the game out of reach for chrissakes.

No argument that he is clutch from me. 9 comeback 4th qtr wins already. But 29-0 with 90 yds and 0 tds is not an example of it, no matter how important you believe the the throws were. Had he done absolutely nothing, they'd still have been ahead 16-0 and that is a fact. No different than the Ram game where he had thrown for 32 yds near the 4th and you were still ahead. He is a very good QB no doubt regardless.

[FolkCrusader]

Future was, is, and always will be a guy who is out to get our collective goat. He entices y'all w/ dialogue that has the appearance of objectivity, followed quickly by obvious hyperbolized bias for the purpose of reeling us in. Why anyone, myself included, gives him the time of day - I'll never know. I will give him props though; his smarmy, passive aggressive style does not merit a response, yet just like a moth to a flame... We flit around & join in.

Bravo, future.... You are winning this round.

True indeed. I used to really like what future brought to this forum but for whatever reason that has changed greatly in the last year or two. I have no interest even engaging him in conversation anymore and it bothers me that he upsets valuable posters with his BS positions.

I don't know why you have changed future, but it is not entertaining or interesting.

[RiverDog]

Future was, is, and always will be a guy who is out to get our collective goat. He entices y'all w/ dialogue that has the appearance of objectivity, followed quickly by obvious hyperbolized bias for the purpose of reeling us in. Why anyone, myself included, gives him the time of day - I'll never know. I will give him props though; his smarmy, passive aggressive style does not merit a response, yet just like a moth to a flame... We flit around & join in.

Bravo, future.... You are winning this round.

True indeed. I used to really like what future brought to this forum but for whatever reason that has changed greatly in the last year or two. I have no interest even engaging him in conversation anymore and it bothers me that he upsets valuable posters with his BS positions.

I don't know why you have changed future, but it is not entertaining or interesting.

It's called a changing of the guard, sis. The Niners no longer own the division, and while we won the Lombardi in one of the most dominating fashion ever, the Niners blew their chance.

I hesitate to identify myself as one of those 'valuable' posters you are referring to, but I, for one, am not upset.

[HumanCockroach]

The "eye test" says Wilson is "clutch" and Kap is not. Nothing further needs to be added. Just Brady is, and Promo isn't...

[Hawk Sista]

River Dog said "
It's called a changing of the guard, sis. The Niners no longer own the division, and while we won the Lombardi in one of the most dominating fashion ever, the Niners blew their chance.

I hesitate to identify myself as one of those 'valuable' posters you are referring to, but I, for one, am not upset."

Someone responded to my original post and I think you are mixing who said what. No offense, brother ... Just settin the record straight. I don't think Future changed as the Hawks improved. I think he's always been a passive aggressive baby who can't handle alternate views, particularly from seahawk fans. It irritates me, however, that his smarmy BS gets to me (sometimes anyway). I've let him know where my goat is tied up... .

[Futureite]

River Dog said "
It's called a changing of the guard, sis. The Niners no longer own the division, and while we won the Lombardi in one of the most dominating fashion ever, the Niners blew their chance.

I hesitate to identify myself as one of those 'valuable' posters you are referring to, but I, for one, am not upset."

Someone responded to my original post and I think you are mixing who said what. No offense, brother ... Just settin the record straight. I don't think Future changed as the Hawks improved. I think he's always been a passive aggressive baby who can't handle alternate views, particularly from seahawk fans. It irritates me, however, that his smarmy BS gets to me (sometimes anyway). I e let him know where my cost is tied up... .

Lol wow. You'd be the first to call me passive agressive. Most people say I am too direct. They also say I do not hide my emotions well, which according to my supervisor means "I always know where I stand with you" and is bad because "you will offend other people". Maybe it also means that I am a baby .

Anyhow I handle diverging viewpoints just fine. I appreciate them. Technically any viewpoint is "diverging", because none are 100% accepted. So, I am not even certain what you meant by that statement. If you meant that my view on this particular issue is bucking popular opinion and I cannot deal with it, then I would say you are not aware of the public perception of how the SB was won. Maybe ask yourself why Malcolm Smith won MVP?

Now here is where I give my phony praise and say RW is a good QB that can win in the clutch. I am doing this just to win points here, clearly.

No actually I am just using my fn brain. Like saying Tom Brady is a clutch QB who blew the SB two yrs ago by throwing behind Wes Welker. He's still clutch. Didn't show it in that game. Same logic here, different player. I'd sell my theory way quicker on the street than you would sell the idea to any reasonably knowledgeable sports fan that Russell Wilson was clutch in the SB.

And I did try a cometely different approach, conceding the QB title at the get go. How did that work out? Maybe there is a reason I learned to be direct in life.

[Futureite]

Future was, is, and always will be a guy who is out to get our collective goat. He entices y'all w/ dialogue that has the appearance of objectivity, followed quickly by obvious hyperbolized bias for the purpose of reeling us in. Why anyone, myself included, gives him the time of day - I'll never know. I will give him props though; his smarmy, passive aggressive style does not merit a response, yet just like a moth to a flame... We flit around & join in.

Bravo, future.... You are winning this round.

True indeed. I used to really like what future brought to this forum but for whatever reason that has changed greatly in the last year or two. I have no interest even engaging him in conversation anymore and it bothers me that he upsets valuable posters with his BS positions.

I don't know why you have changed future, but it is not entertaining or interesting.

I would have to re-read very old posts to know if I have changed. I do not think I have. I think the dynamic of our teams has changed, and that has brought natural tension to both sides.

When I first started posting here we were both kidfing about how bad our teams were. Then 2011 happened and I.posted about my visit to Seattle, which is always great. That's not false praise; I've visited over 35 times and have loved the city since I was a kid.

The Thursday Night game happened, and I posted in warm ups I could see the physicality of the Hawks, that they had a championcip core.

Then the 2012 Dec game came - the day I "changed" and many of you did as well. Trust me, "you" (in general sense) have had a different interaction with myself from that game forward as well. I ignore a ton of insults to not only me but my home town and fanbase here - because it IS your board afterall. I am the visitor. So while I may come back harsh myself, it's not as if either of us has changed.

We are the same people reacting to a different set of circumstances. I would rather give my honest opinions here than only post when I had something overly polite or congratulatory to say. In my opinion, THAT is being phony. Hard to imagine how you appreciate it in Richard Sherman but find it swarmy in me. Lol then again, I can't win you a SB.

I am a work in progress and struggling hard right now with some things in life. I hope I can get back to the good place I was in when I first started posting. I like it here.

[burrrton]

I'd sell my theory way quicker on the street than you would sell the idea to any reasonably knowledgeable sports fan that Russell Wilson was clutch in the SB.

Nonsense. It's not one of those games people will reflect on 20 years from now about anyone's "OMFG CLUTCH" play because it wasn't a textbook come-from-behind-with-60-seconds-left, but those who watched closely know good and well being up 8 points on the highest scoring offense in history was, at the time, not thought to be nearly enough.

There was pressure on Russell until, probably, the pick-6. He played well putting up 8 points (well, 6 of the 8 anyway), then was money getting a TD on the board.

And don't start on any revisionist "TEH DENVAR DEEE SUCKS" baloney, either. He wasn't facing the gold standard (which was wearing his uniform that day) but Denver shut down Lynch for the most part and had been playing well by most accounts.

[RiverDog]

I'd sell my theory way quicker on the street than you would sell the idea to any reasonably knowledgeable sports fan that Russell Wilson was clutch in the SB.

Nonsense. It's not one of those games people will reflect on 20 years from now about anyone's "OMFG CLUTCH" play because it wasn't a textbook come-from-behind-with-60-seconds-left, but those who watched closely know good and well being up 8 points on the highest scoring offense in history was, at the time, not thought to be nearly enough.

There was pressure on Russell until, probably, the pick-6. He played well putting up 8 points (well, 6 of the 8 anyway), then was money getting a TD on the board.

And don't start on any revisionist "TEH DENVAR DEEE SUCKS" baloney, either. He wasn't facing the gold standard (which was wearing his uniform that day) but Denver shut down Lynch for the most part and had been playing well by most accounts.

Denver's D in 2013 was ranked 19th, about the same where Baltimore's D was ranked in 2012 when the Niners lost to them in the SB.

[burrrton]

Denver's D in 2013 was ranked 19th

Yep, but solid against the run iirc, and regardless of the ranking, they shut Lynch down, putting pressure on RW to beat them, which he did.

[Hawk Sista]

A. it is smarmy, not swarmy.

B. I have always said that Sherman's antics are not my style, but whatever gets him to perform at a championship level is what he should do. I'm a bit old school and prefer a more humble approach, but again - he is a gladiator and he needs to mentally and physically prepare for battle in a way that gets HIM ready. You, on the other hand, are a poster in a rival fan forum. See the difference? Also, the simple fact that you ask this question about me tolerating Sherman and not you is part of the problem I have with your responses. You make some giant generalizations about what we think and how we feel. I don't care enough to go back in the annals of discussion to find evidence - but I am sure the more intuitive of my colleagues here will agree.

C. Perhaps all your compliments have been legit. They feel disingenuous to me, particularly when you them follow up with criticisms, 1/2 truths and some out and out misrepresentations of the truth. I understand that some of what we discuss is subjective in nature and you are entitled to your opinion. There are, however, some fact-based discussions and you are often times just out-n-out factually incorrect. It is my perception (I will freely admit I could be wrong here, but it is how I FEEL) that you know dang good and well what you are doing, but you enjoy poking a tiger with a stick and getting a reaction.

D. I know Seahawk fans are not perfect, myself included...Some are even violent or out-n-out a-holes. Just kinda like the whole human race. I realize also that my disdain for the 49er organization is childish - but it is a 35 tear old hate - the origin of which was legitimate. Still, I don't spend my free time in 49er fan forums trying to convince them that CK7 is an immature jerk or that Jim Harbaugh is an Alaskan sized a-hole and that the whole rest of the NFL watching world agrees and cannot stand the sight of him screaming on the side-lines in his $9.00 Wal-Mart khakis. I simply find it odd (and irritating) that you choose to spend so much time in here, particularly when you are lambasting the very thing we all come to celebrate. It's kinda like going to the wedding of an enemy and insisting on making toast after toast. The first couple may fool a few people, but after awhile, people start to realize (or perceive) that you are doing it to get negative attention.

E. Sorry you are going through a rough time and I hope things get better for you. I am frankly irritated at myself as much as I am at you. I should not waste my time, particularly as a cancer patient, worrying about you and your insistence on being here and pissin' in our punch.

[Futureite]

A. it is smarmy, not swarmy.

B. I have always said that Sherman's antics are not my style, but whatever gets him to perform at a championship level is what he should do. I'm a bit old school and prefer a more humble approach, but again - he is a gladiator and he needs to mentally and physically prepare for battle in a way that gets HIM ready. You, on the other hand, are a poster in a rival fan forum. See the difference? Also, the simple fact that you ask this question about me tolerating Sherman and not you is part of the problem I have with your responses. You make some giant generalizations about what we think and how we feel. I don't care enough to go back in the annals of discussion to find evidence - but I am sure the more intuitive of my colleagues here will agree.

C. Perhaps all your compliments have been legit. They feel disingenuous to me, particularly when you them follow up with criticisms, 1/2 truths and some out and out misrepresentations of the truth. I understand that some of what we discuss is subjective in nature and you are entitled to your opinion. There are, however, some fact-based discussions and you are often times just out-n-out factually incorrect. It is my perception (I will freely admit I could be wrong here, but it is how I FEEL) that you know dang good and well what you are doing, but you enjoy poking a tiger with a stick and getting a reaction.

D. I know Seahawk fans are not perfect, myself included...Some are even violent or out-n-out a-holes. Just kinda like the whole human race. I realize also that my disdain for the 49er organization is childish - but it is a 35 tear old hate - the origin of which was legitimate. Still, I don't spend my free time in 49er fan forums trying to convince them that CK7 is an immature jerk or that Jim Harbaugh is an Alaskan sized a-hole and that the whole rest of the NFL watching world agrees and cannot stand the sight of him screaming on the side-lines in his $9.00 Wal-Mart khakis. I simply find it odd (and irritating) that you choose to spend so much time in here, particularly when you are lambasting the very thing we all come to celebrate. It's kinda like going to the wedding of an enemy and insisting on making toast after toast. The first couple may fool a few people, but after awhile, people start to realize (or perceive) that you are doing it to get negative attention.

E. Sorry you are going through a rough time and I hope things get better for you. I am frankly irritated at myself as much as I am at you. I should not waste my time, particularly as a cancer patient, worrying about you and your insistence on being here and pissin' in our punch.

Look, you have a built in perception of what I am suppise to represent and who I am suppose to be. Please quit insinuating that I come here to play games. What I find absurd is when I am genuinely complimentary or maintain a cool head, you view it as disengenuous or phony. And the longer I maintain my cool in the face of said insults, the more it bothers you. You are waiting for my "true" colors to come out in any post, so that you can claim all the pleasantries were just an act so that I could build rapore and earn leeway to unload on your team.

Well, sorry. I don't have nearly the time or energy to build such a nefarious plan. I get zero thrills out of antagonizing anyone.

I am not here to piss on any party. Look at your threads. A good number of them are anti-Niner threads in one form or another. I mean s***, look at the thread we are posting on. It is titled "instagram QBs". You WANT to discuss the very topic you are complaining I am trolling about. If I was "pissing" on your party, I'd be posting BS on any number of the Hawk celebration fan threads. Please show me where I am doing this. Anywhere. If you don't like the QB debate, why keep posting on a thread like this one? It ain't a debate until someone disagrees.

Sorry to hear about your cancer, but I am glad you survived and got to witness a SB win! Maybe this is whete your fire comes from . I kinda like it.

[Futureite]

I'd sell my theory way quicker on the street than you would sell the idea to any reasonably knowledgeable sports fan that Russell Wilson was clutch in the SB.

Nonsense. It's not one of those games people will reflect on 20 years from now about anyone's "OMFG CLUTCH" play because it wasn't a textbook come-from-behind-with-60-seconds-left, but those who watched closely know good and well being up 8 points on the highest scoring offense in history was, at the time, not thought to be nearly enough.

There was pressure on Russell until, probably, the pick-6. He played well putting up 8 points (well, 6 of the 8 anyway), then was money getting a TD on the board.

And don't start on any revisionist "TEH DENVAR DEEE SUCKS" baloney, either. He wasn't facing the gold standard (which was wearing his uniform that day) but Denver shut down Lynch for the most part and had been playing well by most accounts.

Denver's D in 2013 was ranked 19th, about the same where Baltimore's D was ranked in 2012 when the Niners lost to them in the SB.

Both Ds were bad. Denver had one of the weakest strengths of schedules in the NFL, and almost any decent O they played put up points on them. Look at what the Colts and Cowboys did to them, for example.

I agree Baltimore's D was bad in 2012 as well. Our O had no problem putting up big yards and points V them - over 450 yds 30+ pts and 300 in the air. It was our D STs that did not hold its end of the bargain.

I am not at all saying RW played a poor SB. If that's what you are reading in my posts then you are misinterpreting them. I only stated that he was not put in the same position to continue making the pressure plays that you have harped on Kap for blowing V your D in your stadium. And I said there is no way I can prove he couldn't have, so that about ends it.

River I think you have a really good QB and I even worried during our home win whether we left him with too much time to beat us. So I am not saying what you believe I am. I know the kid can make plays.