Documentgate?

[RiverDog]

Just when things were starting to look good for Biden, with the Republicans in the House self destructing, inflation continuing to subside, and his poll numbers creeping up in advance of an expected announcement that he's running in 2024, things came crashing down this week.

First, there was the revelation that Biden's private lawyers had discovered some classified documents from his days as VP in an office he used from mid 2017 until he started his campaign for POTUS in 2020. The date of their discovery is important: November 2nd, 2022, less than a week before the 2022 midterms, an election in which the Democrats did much better than expected. The existence of the documents was not admitted to by the White House until questioned by reporters.

Then it was revealed that there was a second trove of classified documents found in two separate rooms, one of them in his garage, at Biden's personal residence in Wilmington, Delaware.

While it must be acknowledged that there were huge, significant differences in the two cases, ie Trump's and Biden's, it was just 4 months ago when Biden admonished former president Trump on CBS's "60 Minutes" for being "totally irresponsible" for his handling of classified documents. A classic case of the pot-calling-the-kettle-black if there ever was one.

We now have a special prosecutor assigned to the case and the Republican led House is opening their own investigation. One of the big questions is going to be why this incident wasn't reported immediately? Was the discovery intentionally covered up so as not to interfere with the midterm elections? Why did it take an inquiry by the media before the White House admitted their existence? For a President that has promised transparency, those are huge questions that remain unanswered.

Comments?

[MackStrongIsMyHero]

Because they are cut out of the same bolt of cloth perhaps? Or maybe just very similar cloths. It seems politician on both sides of the aisle are capable anything. It doesn't so much surprise me that he did this; it surprises me he would do it after what you just mentioned. Trump got hammered for holding classified documents and should have.

If they can get him on it, then they will. If they can't, then they won't. I don't know that it will really come to much especially if Trump's didn't. That would be highly hypocritical if Biden got clapped up for it. Rest assured; they'll parlay it into whatever political gain they can.

[RiverDog]

Because they are cut out of the same bolt of cloth perhaps? Or maybe just very similar cloths. It seems politician on both sides of the aisle are capable anything. It doesn't so much surprise me that he did this; it surprises me he would do it after what you just mentioned. Trump got hammered for holding classified documents and should have.

If they can get him on it, then they will. If they can't, then they won't. I don't know that it will really come to much especially if Trump's didn't. That would be highly hypocritical if Biden got clapped up for it. Rest assured; they'll parlay it into whatever political gain they can.

10-4 on that. This is like manna from heaven for the Republicans as Biden has shot himself in the foot. This is a legitimate issue with serious questions that need to be answered. The fortunate thing for Biden is that this isn't an election year.

I'm wondering how widespread this classified document issue is. Why are they allowed to leave government property in the first place? Did Obama keep classified documents in his personal offices? Does he have any in his possession today? Does Bush? Or Clinton? Hell, maybe the FBI should crash Jimmy Carter's personal residence. He'd probably have a better understanding of what they are and why they are there than Biden does.

[Aseahawkfan]

First, this is why I don't use magical corruption meters to figure out who is the most corrupt. I know both the Republicans and Democrats and everything in-between engages in corrupt behavior. Biden and Hilary Clinton were corrupt before they ran, as corrupt as Trump and did as much that the media hid for them because if you want to have power in America, you need to have power within the media to leak and plant stories and the like.

Two, I told you payback is coming from the Republicans. This is a game. For what the Democrats did to Trump, they will be paid back for. That's the game.

Third, I don't know why people don't understand the concept of the Democrats can't stick any charges on Trump that the Republicans will use to stick on their candidates down the line. This is a tit for tat political war. And a lot of the dirt our politicians do is carefully hidden by networks and layers of supporters across the industry and in the media. If one side engages in political warfare, the other side will have to answer as payback. This is how it works and has worked for years. Thisis what keeps the peace in America.

This is the game in the political arena. Biden is good enough at managing it he kept a lot of his affairs from blowing up his campaign. Trump did the same early on. But he's been such a jerk and so interested in fighting, he doesn't know when to shut his mouth and keep things quiet so he ends up getting taught lessons about how power works in Washington D.C. Even some of his Republican backers are pulling out because of his stupid mouth.

Democrats don't care about Biden's documents. He'll easily have this swept under the carpet by the election time. This is just tit for tat for political positioning by the Republicans should they need to use it if Trump does turn out to be the nominee.

[Aseahawkfan]

10-4 on that. This is like manna from heaven for the Republicans as Biden has shot himself in the foot. This is a legitimate issue with serious questions that need to be answered. The fortunate thing for Biden is that this isn't an election year.

I'm wondering how widespread this classified document issue is. Why are they allowed to leave government property in the first place? Did Obama keep classified documents in his personal offices? Does he have any in his possession today? Does Bush? Or Clinton? Hell, maybe the FBI should crash Jimmy Carter's personal residence. He'd probably have a better understanding of what they are and why they are there than Biden does.

It's overblown BS used for political marketing. If it were a real issue, we would have a Snowden like trial ages ago.

[c_hawkbob]

While the differences you mentioned are indeed both huge in volume and significant in how they were dealt with by the offending parties I think the most important takeaway is that they are being treated completely squarely by Garland. By the book all the way, no favors in any direction, completely above the board and transparent. Impressive.

As for how Biden is handling it now, he needs to take a cue from the AG and be completely transparent as well. No he needn't answer every question or let it dominate every press engagement, but ignoring it is inappropriate as well. Address it up front and then make it clear that you can't answer questions about an ongoing investigation. This is at the very least an opportunity to demonstrate the proper way to confront your own mistakes, make clearly obvious the difference between yourself and 45.

The upcoming state of the union will be interesting.

[RiverDog]

It's overblown BS used for political marketing. If it were a real issue, we would have a Snowden like trial ages ago.

Sure, a lot of it is overblown, but I think it raises serious questions about the stewardship of these documents. Why are they allowed to leave federal property in the first place? Is this standard practice? Have other Presidents and VP's taken classified documents to their personal offices and residences? Does Kamala Harris have any at her private residence? I can understand how Trump's left, he took them illegally then did not surrender them when requested. But how did Biden's go astray? Surely those that discovered them understood the significance given how publicized Trump's documents were, they were Biden's personal lawyers, and they read the news like everyone else. Did they tell him? If so, when was he told? As it was in Watergate, the cover up is worse than the crime.

It's a serious national security issue. They are classified for a reason. Some of the documents were mixed in with Biden's personal effects, like the funeral of his late son. And he has the gall to call Trump irresponsible.

In response to Cbob's observation about the State of the Union address, I doubt that Biden even mentions them. He'll talk about how inflation is coming down, gas prices are lower, the aid they're giving to Ukraine, maybe even Damar Hamlin's ordeal. But he won't talk about Documentgate. After all, the State of the Union is nothing more than a campaign speech without the placards. I don't even bother watching it.

[Aseahawkfan]

Sure, a lot of it is overblown, but I think it raises serious questions about the stewardship of these documents. Why are they allowed to leave federal property in the first place? Is this standard practice? Have other Presidents and VP's taken classified documents to their personal offices and residences? Does Kamala Harris have any at her private residence? I can understand how Trump's left, he took them illegally then did not surrender them when requested. But how did Biden's go astray? Surely those that discovered them understood the significance given how publicized Trump's documents were, they were Biden's personal lawyers, and they read the news like everyone else. Did they tell him? If so, when was he told? As it was in Watergate, the cover up is worse than the crime.

It's a serious national security issue. They are classified for a reason. Some of the documents were mixed in with Biden's personal effects, like the funeral of his late son. And he has the gall to call Trump irresponsible.

In response to Cbob's observation about the State of the Union address, I doubt that Biden even mentions them. He'll talk about how inflation is coming down, gas prices are lower, the aid they're giving to Ukraine, maybe even Damar Hamlin's ordeal. But he won't talk about Documentgate. After all, the State of the Union is nothing more than a campaign speech without the placards. I don't even bother watching it.

It didn't become an issue until recently. After the emails and recent raid, we found out presidents and politicians do this as a standard procedure. Not sure how important the documents are, but likely mostly personal discussions on matters of government that become classified. It's likely a standard operating procedure and most of it is not classified enough that it is a major concern or I would hope our security agencies would be a lot more unhappy and angry.

As far as Garland being unbiased, let me just *cough* Bullsh&$ *cough." The man is obviously biased and has been brought in to do a job of hammering on the Trump Republicans while carefully making sure policies followed. The only reason Garland is doing what he's doing is because the Republicans are setting Biden up for the next election and forcing his AG Stooge Garland to do the job on Biden he did on Trump or look bad.

I'm waiting to see who runs next year. See how bad all of this gets. It can't get much worse than Trump, so as long as it's not him we should get back to more peace and quiet of the usual political warfare.

I usually don't care about this small potatoes crap. I want to reach a point where I don't have to any more. That means a different Republican candidate that isn't always itching for stupid fights. We know our politicians aren't "good" people. We don't need them to be. But we do them to know how to keep the peace, keep their dirt quiet, and hopefully not let the dirt get so bad we need to do something about it. That's what Trump never seemed to grasp: keep the crap quiet and then people won't care so much. But he had to whine and throw fits and act out because the Narcissistic Loon loved attention too much.

[RiverDog]

It didn't become an issue until recently. After the emails and recent raid, we found out presidents and politicians do this as a standard procedure. Not sure how important the documents are, but likely mostly personal discussions on matters of government that become classified. It's likely a standard operating procedure and most of it is not classified enough that it is a major concern or I would hope our security agencies would be a lot more unhappy and angry.

There are three levels of classified documents:

According to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the three main levels of classified information are:

Top Secret: information would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" if there were an unauthorized release.

Secret: information that would, with unauthorized release, be expected to cause "serious" damage to the national security.

Confidential: information that is determined to have the potential to cause danger to the national security with unauthorized release.

About 10% of the documents found at Biden's private office in DC were marked "top secret." Unless you're comfortable with information that would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" being kept in private offices, it's not small potatoes. It's a big deal. These top secret documents weren't found until Biden's attorneys started cleaning out the place in anticipation of a move. They were stored there and forgotten.

I also want to know how common it is for a VP or POTUS to take top secret and other classified documents off government property to unsecured locations like private offices and residences. Has Kamala Harris taken any to her private office or residence? Did Obama do this? Did Dick Cheney or George Bush? How about Clinton and Gore? It's not good enough to excuse Biden just because his transgressions are not as serious as Trump's.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what- ... %20release.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -tank.html

[curmudgeon]

It’s a non-issue. Biden is the best thing the US has ever seen…..

[Aseahawkfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classified_information_in_the_United_States

If you want a basic overview of what classified information means in the United States, you can peruse the above.

I don't think much will come of this for Biden or Trump. I don't think the classified information is very important. For all we know it is some conversation they had or they ordered coffee from their favorite coffee place, who knows. So when the press says they found classified information, that doesn't mean much by itself. We don't know what level of classification or what the information is because a lot of information a president deals with can become classified without being very important or particularly useful.

This is more political theater than any real threat to national security or it would have caused repercussions years ago. This is just more grist for the media arms of the political parties to rally their followers. It's modern day bread and circuses to the ignorant masses who don't even think about what classified means in the context of the United States classification system.

[Aseahawkfan]

It’s a non-issue. Biden is the best thing the US has ever seen…..

I'm sure in your mind the trash Narcissistic Loon who rallies his followers to riot at the Capitol and tries to muscle other Republicans into supporting his illegal attempts to overturn an election is better. I'll take Biden over Trump every day of the year and then some.

Maybe people like you think a Civil War would be good for the nation, having people mass murder each other in the streets, but I don't feel like having some whining loon in office complaining about stolen elections trying to use the military or forcing his Vice President into overturning a completed election.

I'd rather have a forgetful old man in office than a psychotic narcissistic loon who thinks he's the center of the world and can do whatever he wants with no consequences.

[Aseahawkfan]

There are three levels of classified documents:

According to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the three main levels of classified information are:

Top Secret: information would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" if there were an unauthorized release.

Secret: information that would, with unauthorized release, be expected to cause "serious" damage to the national security.

Confidential: information that is determined to have the potential to cause danger to the national security with unauthorized release.

About 10% of the documents found at Biden's private office in DC were marked "top secret." Unless you're comfortable with information that would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" being kept in private offices, it's not small potatoes. It's a big deal. These top secret documents weren't found until Biden's attorneys started cleaning out the place in anticipation of a move. They were stored there and forgotten.

I also want to know how common it is for a VP or POTUS to take top secret and other classified documents off government property to unsecured locations like private offices and residences. Has Kamala Harris taken any to her private office or residence? Did Obama do this? Did Dick Cheney or George Bush? How about Clinton and Gore? It's not good enough to excuse Biden just because his transgressions are not as serious as Trump's.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what- ... %20release.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -tank.html

You beat me to it in the layers of classification.

I'm not in any way bothered by this information being in offices. I have never heard of a presidents private removed files causing a security issue until now. I know this practice has been going for some time. So no, I am not at all concerned, not in the slightest. I consider this political theater and a waste of time from the real issues afflicting America, more distraction and bread and circuses.

Dick Cheney ran his own email servers. As I told you and the information is documented in a variety of areas if you read on Cheney, Dick Cheney was a powerful enough man that the Clintons and Trump would have feared to cross him if they were going against him. Dick Cheney was far more corrupt and vicious than any of these clowns in office since he left. He rewrote laws to do what he wanted to do. He hired marketing executive and teams to change American viewpoints based on language. He was probably the most powerful VP in American history. He did worse things by a good measure than Trump or the Clintons, yet he remained off the radar because he knows how to handle power and keep things in-house.

Cheney is the one that turned torture into the term "enhanced interrogation" to bypass Geneva Convention and American laws against torture. He wrote the Cheney Doctrine to empower the presidency to declare war or take extreme measures to protect the nation with even the slightest chance of threat to America which allowed a wide latitude in the use of military force and intelligence AI and tracking that empowered by the Patriot Act to spy on Americans and Worldwide.

Trump is a fart compared to Dick Cheney's level of political ability and corruption. If Cheney were younger, Trump would not even have made it into office. That old guard of hardcore Republicans that knew how to handle power and the presidency are gone. Somehow Trump has filled that power vacuum. Not really sure why.

Trump is small potatoes compared to Cheney. Cheney is a truly frightening American politician, both within the American system and to men like Putin and Xi. Trump is a joke compared to Cheney. So is Biden. I would welcome a Cheney back at this point in time. A man that would look across the sea at Putin and Xi and make sure they knew what was going to happened if they overstepped their bounds.

[Hawktawk]

There are three levels of classified documents:

According to the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, the three main levels of classified information are:

Top Secret: information would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" if there were an unauthorized release.

Secret: information that would, with unauthorized release, be expected to cause "serious" damage to the national security.

Confidential: information that is determined to have the potential to cause danger to the national security with unauthorized release.

About 10% of the documents found at Biden's private office in DC were marked "top secret." Unless you're comfortable with information that would cause "exceptionally grave damage to the national security" being kept in private offices, it's not small potatoes. It's a big deal. These top secret documents weren't found until Biden's attorneys started cleaning out the place in anticipation of a move. They were stored there and forgotten.

I also want to know how common it is for a VP or POTUS to take top secret and other classified documents off government property to unsecured locations like private offices and residences. Has Kamala Harris taken any to her private office or residence? Did Obama do this? Did Dick Cheney or George Bush? How about Clinton and Gore? It's not good enough to excuse Biden just because his transgressions are not as serious as Trump's.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/what- ... %20release.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -tank.html

You beat me to it in the layers of classification.

I'm not in any way bothered by this information being in offices. I have never heard of a presidents private removed files causing a security issue until now. I know this practice has been going for some time. So no, I am not at all concerned, not in the slightest. I consider this political theater and a waste of time from the real issues afflicting America, more distraction and bread and circuses.

Dick Cheney ran his own email servers. As I told you and the information is documented in a variety of areas if you read on Cheney, Dick Cheney was a powerful enough man that the Clintons and Trump would have feared to cross him if they were going against him. Dick Cheney was far more corrupt and vicious than any of these clowns in office since he left. He rewrote laws to do what he wanted to do. He hired marketing executive and teams to change American viewpoints based on language. He was probably the most powerful VP in American history. He did worse things by a good measure than Trump or the Clintons, yet he remained off the radar because he knows how to handle power and keep things in-house.

Cheney is the one that turned torture into the term "enhanced interrogation" to bypass Geneva Convention and American laws against torture. He wrote the Cheney Doctrine to empower the presidency to declare war or take extreme measures to protect the nation with even the slightest chance of threat to America which allowed a wide latitude in the use of military force and intelligence AI and tracking that empowered by the Patriot Act to spy on Americans and Worldwide.

Trump is a fart compared to Dick Cheney's level of political ability and corruption. If Cheney were younger, Trump would not even have made it into office. That old guard of hardcore Republicans that knew how to handle power and the presidency are gone. Somehow Trump has filled that power vacuum. Not really sure why.

Trump is small potatoes compared to Cheney. Cheney is a truly frightening American politician, both within the American system and to men like Putin and Xi. Trump is a joke compared to Cheney. So is Biden. I would welcome a Cheney back at this point in time. A man that would look across the sea at Putin and Xi and make sure they knew what was going to happened if they overstepped their bounds.

Asea you hold Cheney in high regard. I never thought he was sinister but he was muscle and smarts in every administration he served in. One of our residents here at the Legacy is a retired ss who was on Cheney's protection detail. He was on the hunting trip when Cheney accidentally shot his hunting partner with birdshot. So he was dangerous alright
Eric says hes a great guy, great american.

Biden should resign right now. I've called for it for a while. Beyond the blatant hypocrisy and risk to national security its increasingly painful to watch Biden attempt to put a sentence together. Last guy was manic. This guys senile. Why the hell the US presidency is treated like as 4 year monarchy over and over is beyond me. Too powerful

But DAMN NICE VETTE

[RiverDog]

Classified documents HAVE to be kept extremely secure. The fact that we haven't suffered a national security crisis due to a leak is no reason to be so cavalier with them. It would be like leaving the doors to your home or car unlocked because you've never experienced a theft.

There are more threats to our national security than that posed by the Russians and Chinese. Computer/internet hackers would love to get their meat hooks on the information contained in them, use them to threaten our infrastructure, blackmail government employees, tap into computer systems. One has to look no further than last week, when one or two people, perhaps by mistake, disrupted the entire nation's air transportation. Recently, we've had attacks on electrical substations. Schools and governments, big and small, that have had their systems hacked into.

Trump's treatment of classified documents is criminal, but it shouldn't be allowed to overshadow the ineptness of the current occupant of the Oval Office. I'm not as concerned about the politics of it, that Biden or his people might have supressed this information so as not to interfere with the midterms as I am about the problem itself. If it's something that has been going on routinely before those two clowns, then it needs to be fixed.

[Aseahawkfan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bush_White_House_email_controversy

Do you remember the Bush Administration Email scandal? Remember it? Remember how much they talked about it? How big a deal it was?

You don't? Neither do I. I remember Hilary's email scandal, but not the Bush one.

Did our country collapse from the email scandals? Or the documents? It didn't? Imagine that.

Cheney was the one running those servers. It seems he completely deflected blame. Because he knows how to handle this kind of political theater crap.

[RiverDog]

It doesn't matter if we've never had a major issue that can be traced back to the leaking of unsecured classified information. The point is that it can happen. There are a lot of bad guys out there that would love to get their hands on them.

I discovered through my research that it is not uncommon for a POTUS or VP to take classified documents to their homes and offices, so in that regard, I probably overreacted. But what is uncommon is for them not to be returned promptly after they leave office. Up until Trump, it was always based on the honor system, that it was assumed that former POTUS's and VP's would always return the documents as part of their last day's housekeeping chores upon leaving office. The National Archives has neither the authority nor the staffing to account for and recover all of the documents the formers have in their possession. That needs to change. Heck, there are businesses that have better accounting of proprietary and employee information that they want to keep confidential than the government does of their classified documents.

When the Republicans asked to see the Secret Services' log of those that visited Biden's residence where the documents were stored, they were told that such records do not exist. Especially in this day and age of facial recognition and biometric data making such information so easy to obtain and catalog, I find that kind of negligence very concerning for a number of reasons, like protecting the lives of the formers and their families.

[Hawktawk]

Reported this morning there was an active intentional cover up of this document discovery . The FBI was being excluded from the investigation by DOJ.
Resign . I will not be happy if this senile dolt runs again . Our country is run by incompetent idiots .

[RiverDog]

Reported this morning there was an active intentional cover up of this document discovery . The FBI was being excluded from the investigation by DOJ.
Resign . I will not be happy if this senile dolt runs again . Our country is run by incompetent idiots .

I don't know if it has anything to do with Documentgate, but I see where Biden's Chief of Staff is expected to resign. The White House has horribly mismanaged this crisis.

I don't think that this scandal rises anywhere close to the level it would take for him to resign. He's apparently not the only POTUS or VP to take classified documents with him to locations outside the White House. and even if they were to prove that he covered it up, he's under no legal or Constitutional obligation to inform anyone but the National Archives of their existence and whereabouts. That differs dramatically from recent POTUS scandals, including the Trump and Clinton impeachments.

The biggest take away should be that our government is pretty sloppy when it comes to protecting classified documents information. But the politics of it is hugely damaging for Biden as he mocked Trump for being so irresponsible in his stewardship of sensitive information. He's lucky it happened when it did, 21 months before the next election.

I don't like Joe Biden any more than you do, but he's better than the alternative, ie Trump or DeSantis.

[NorthHawk]

So if these documents are so sensitive to National Security, why isn't there some type of "Custodian" of them to let the President or Vice President view them then take them back and return them to their secure
location from where they came?
It just seems rather odd that they would be classified so highly then have no record of what happens to them after being delivered to the President or administration. How many people who don't hold the proper
Security Clearance levels have access to them? How many are political operatives/strategists or other secretarial staff that might just be cleaning up have access?
It seems to me that the procedures need to be really tightened up if these are as sensitive as suggested by their classification.

[mykc14]

So if these documents are so sensitive to National Security, why isn't there some type of "Custodian" of them to let the President or Vice President view them then take them back and return them to their secure
location from where they came?
It just seems rather odd that they would be classified so highly then have no record of what happens to them after being delivered to the President or administration. How many people who don't hold the proper
Security Clearance levels have access to them? How many are political operatives/strategists or other secretarial staff that might just be cleaning up have access?
It seems to me that the procedures need to be really tightened up if these are as sensitive as suggested by their classification.

It seems like if we should be able to trust people with top secret clearance to be able to store them properly when they are done with them without the need of some "custodian." If we need a "custodian" to take care of our top secret documents because our president/vice-president can't do it on their own we have bigger issues. Who knows what is really going on. The reality is this probably isn't some nefarious act by Biden (trying to hide top secret documents that could incriminate him or keeping certain documents as leverage over somebody) but it really is a terrible look especially after what a big deal the Dem's made about Trump having similar types of documents (obviously if this would have happened in reverse the Republicans would have made a huge deal too). At the end of the day it is a big deal, though. We need to treat these documents with the respect they deserve and store them properly. Our president needs to put themselves in a situation where they are above reproach when it comes to national security and their foreign dealings- something our last two presidents have not been able to do.

[mykc14]

I don't like Joe Biden any more than you do, but he's better than the alternative, ie Trump or DeSantis.

Is he really? I know he's better than Trump but is he better than DeSantis? Biden is in the same vein and clearly is not as clean as the Dem's would want you to believe. DeSantis isn't perfect by any means and I can understand voting for Biden because he's better than Trump but unless some more serious stuff comes out about DeSantis I don't understand throwing a vote to the Dems. If you like Biden and think he is what America needs then I get it vote for him, but how is DeSantis this evil guy (like Trump) compared to Biden?

[c_hawkbob]

Oh come on, DeSantis has gone from "don't say gay" to now saying "don't say black". Other than his packaging he's just like Trump. I don't see how you all can see his hate as somehow more benign than Trumps.

[mykc14]

Oh come on, DeSantis has gone from "don't say gay" to now saying "don't say black". Other than his packaging he's just like Trump. I don't see how you all can see his hate as somehow more benign than Trumps.

I don't mind the idea of K-3rd graders not learning about sexual orientation... As far as CRT goes I have been teaching History for 17 years and feel like we have been moving in the right direction as far as teaching our history. I do feel that, without a doubt, for a long time our history was "white-washed" and needed to be reformed. I think this still happens in places, Florida may be one of them, but the path that CRT has taken needs to be looked at as well. Every guest speaker, every staff training, every staff reading book, every assembly that we have had in my school over the past three years has been CRT focused. Kids have gone from interested and willing to learn to feeling like they are being bludgeoned over the head with it. They have gone from receptive and interested in discussing it in my Senior CWP class to vocally against it. I don't know the exact content that was wrong with the AP class being taught in Florida but I would like to look at it before I am willing to put the blame on Desatis for blocking it. Just to be clear I am saying this as a person who probably WON'T vote for Desantis. I have never voted for Trump. I voted for Obama, but at some point we have to check both sides. If somebody wants to check CRT or teaching sexual identity to young children you are suddenly seen as a crazy conservative. I think we need to teach history from multiple angles and not drown our kids in CRT. I think our young kids shouldn't be talking about orientation- or anything sexual (besides what sexual abuse is/looks like) before they are 10 years old. Desantis is not Trump, not yet.

[Aseahawkfan]

Is he really? I know he's better than Trump but is he better than DeSantis? Biden is in the same vein and clearly is not as clean as the Dem's would want you to believe. DeSantis isn't perfect by any means and I can understand voting for Biden because he's better than Trump but unless some more serious stuff comes out about DeSantis I don't understand throwing a vote to the Dems. If you like Biden and think he is what America needs then I get it vote for him, but how is DeSantis this evil guy (like Trump) compared to Biden?

I'll wait and see if the guy even runs. These people always change their colors depending on the stage they're on. C-bob is listening to the Democratic news that doesn't like his current bills in Florida slowing the revising of history and pushing of leftist race and LGBT narratives. It's the usual leftist narrative to drive their followers to paint every Republican pushing back against some of these cultural changes as driven by "hate." You have to read the bills for yourself and decide what you think rather than let the news label them "don't say gay" or "don't say black." C-bob[ hates Republicans. I've never seen him support a Republican for twenty plus years unless they are endorsing a Democratic narrative like Liz Cheney, who he would turn against as soon as he heard her platform. He was against Bush and Cheney back in 2001 and has been anti-Republican unless they do something the Democrats think are ok for twenty years I've been posting on the same forum as him. I figure he's a pro-Labor Democrat for the most part, but mostly supports anything not Republican.

So far I'm not all that concerned about Biden or Desantis as long as Trump is done. That's all I care about.

I'm sure if Desantis runs, reaches the national stage, and sheds the Trump Stink in the primaries, he'll change his tune to fit what he needs to be to win. Then we'll see what happens. A long way to go until we see who seeks the nomination much less wins.

As far as these document stories, I don't care. The email servers and documents don't matter to me at all. I know this was going on as far back as Cheney and Bush which is twenty years ago. It's just more bread and circuses for voters to keep them divided, so nothing useful gets done in America because all Americans do is watch their favorite political news and hate on the other side. Allows the non-politicians to continue to serve the agenda of the power players who could care less about documents, email servers, and the like. They want to run the world and do business worldwide. They love dragging regular Americans around by thrit noses arguing over small potatoes, while they divide up the steak.

[Aseahawkfan]

It doesn't matter if we've never had a major issue that can be traced back to the leaking of unsecured classified information. The point is that it can happen. There are a lot of bad guys out there that would love to get their hands on them.

I discovered through my research that it is not uncommon for a POTUS or VP to take classified documents to their homes and offices, so in that regard, I probably overreacted. But what is uncommon is for them not to be returned promptly after they leave office. Up until Trump, it was always based on the honor system, that it was assumed that former POTUS's and VP's would always return the documents as part of their last day's housekeeping chores upon leaving office. The National Archives has neither the authority nor the staffing to account for and recover all of the documents the formers have in their possession. That needs to change. Heck, there are businesses that have better accounting of proprietary and employee information that they want to keep confidential than the government does of their classified documents.

When the Republicans asked to see the Secret Services' log of those that visited Biden's residence where the documents were stored, they were told that such records do not exist. Especially in this day and age of facial recognition and biometric data making such information so easy to obtain and catalog, I find that kind of negligence very concerning for a number of reasons, like protecting the lives of the formers and their families.

It does matter. If something has not been a problem, creating a problem is nothing more than political theater meant to distract from other agendas. Americans need to stop focusing on spoonfed "problems" and focus more on what is going on in their country in terms of governance. We need some things taken care of and worrying about voting for a president that won't accidentally take home some "classified" documents (classification levels we don't even know) is just a distraction from any real issues. Since this type of stuff has been happening since Bush and Cheney 20 years ago and nothing bad has happened to the nation, it should be a clear lesson to you that this rubbish is being used to distract and manipulate you to vote a certain way. It's creating a problem that did not exist, then manufacturing a scandal and more political theater so you stay focused on stuff that don't matter.

You need to be watching policy first, this kind of crap far down the line.

[NorthHawk]

Document management needs to be improved. There's clearly a problem with handling and securing sensitive documents.
If these docs were in Bidens garage and it wasn't noticed by those who keep such things under wraps, then something is amiss.
If they really are that important, then those docs have to be kept secure and tracked.