Russell Wilson

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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 24, 2023 10:51 am

Hawktawk wrote:https://sports.yahoo.com/russell-wilson-reportedly-asked-seahawks-to-fire-pete-carroll-for-sean-payton-before-he-was-traded-to-broncos-140611606.html#:~:text=The%20eroded%20relationship%20between%20Russell,Seattle%2C%20according%20to%2
Another terrible looking report. Going around the coach to ownership. Wow. Of course the predictable denial from team 3. MMMHHHHMMM. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well hes got his wish with Payton. Lets see how that works out. Id love to have been a fly on the wall with Pete and John Guffawing and high fiving watching Russ suffer and fail. I'm surprised they have been as civil as they have been publicly although Pete has had an edge all year. Now I see why.


At this point, it's all water under the bridge. Even if it's true, it doesn't change anything one iota. Russell's no longer on our team and we got what we're gonna get out of the trade. I'm sure that Russell isn't the first quarterback to have had a falling out with his head coach bad enough that he lobbied ownership to make a change.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Agent 86 » Fri Feb 24, 2023 1:05 pm

Here is the full article per The Athletic:

Russell Wilson’s first year with Broncos: ‘Too much influence,’ too few wins in disorganized disaster
The Athletic NFL Staff
Feb 24, 2023

By Kalyn Kahler, Mike Sando and Jayson Jenks


Hours before his first regular-season game with the Denver Broncos last September, Russell Wilson made an unfamiliar walk down the visitor’s tunnel at Seattle’s Lumen Field.

He immediately saw familiar faces. In the end zone, Wilson hugged three members of the Seahawks’ strength-and-conditioning staff. Near midfield, he removed his headphones and put his arm around Carl Smith, his longtime position coach in Seattle. He embraced Sean Mannion, a quarterback on the practice squad, and Derin Lazuta, an assistant equipment manager.

In the pregame calm before his first start against his former team, Wilson shared moments with players, coaches and staff from his decorated 10-year Seahawks career. But Wilson and Pete Carroll — the quarterback and coach who won the only Super Bowl in franchise history, who turned the Seahawks into a decade-long winner — did not speak to each other on the field before the game. Their postgame embrace after a 17-16 Seahawks win was quick and awkward.

The reason was unknown to the millions of fans who made the game the most-watched Monday Night Football season-opener in more than a decade. Seven months earlier, in February 2022, Wilson punctuated his growing frustration with Carroll and general manager John Schneider by making the most fateful power play in the history of the franchise.

Wilson and Carroll had clashed in recent years over the quarterback’s role in the offense and the overall direction of a team that had gradually declined after back-to-back Super Bowl appearances. Convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards, Wilson asked Seahawks ownership to fire both of them, according to league sources who spoke to The Athletic on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the details. Wilson also had a preferred replacement in mind: Sean Payton, who had recently stepped down from the New Orleans Saints.

That request set in motion a wild 13 months kicked off by Wilson’s stunning trade to Denver and a first season with the Broncos so calamitous the team fired new head coach Nathaniel Hackett after just 15 games. A Broncos season that began with so much promise — new ownership, a coach who helped Aaron Rodgers win multiple MVPs and a quarterback who had played in multiple Super Bowls — cratered into a 5-12 disaster, arguably the most disappointing season in Broncos history.

A lawyer for Wilson wrote a letter to The Athletic characterizing the assertion that Wilson called for Carroll’s and Schneider’s firing as “entirely fabricated.” The Seahawks declined to comment for this story. Hackett and Broncos GM George Paton declined to comment through representatives.

The Athletic spoke to more than 15 Broncos players, coaches and staffers about the 2022 season. Some were granted anonymity to speak freely about sensitive topics. Many of those interviewed described a team without direction: a first-time head coach who was too accommodating, an inexperienced coaching staff around him and a star quarterback who failed to live up to expectations after getting what he wanted.

Within days of Wilson’s call to Seahawks ownership, top team officials met and decided to pursue a trade of the most successful quarterback in franchise history. On March 8, Seahawks leadership publicly backed Carroll and Schneider by sending Wilson to the Broncos for two first-round picks, two second-rounders, one fifth-rounder and three players.

Wilson, a nine-time Pro Bowler, waived his no-trade clause, then signed a $245 million contract extension before the season. He told new Broncos teammates he approved Denver as his destination because he believed the team could win championships. Wilson told reporters in Denver he hoped to win “three or four more Super Bowls.”

“That’s the plan,” Wilson said when the trade was announced in March. “That’s why I came here.”

Wilson spoke with Paton about the support staff he intended to employ, apart from official team employees, including Jake Heaps, his personal quarterback coach, as well as a nutritionist and a physical therapist. Wilson explained why it was important to have his staff nearby, including inside Denver’s facility, an area reserved for team personnel. Paton discussed the arrangement with Hackett and signed off on it.

The setup was unprecedented for both players and coaches.

“No one else I have been around has ever been able to have those people in there – which, looking back on it, not a good idea,” a member of the 2022 Broncos coaching staff said.

The Broncos gave Wilson an office at the team facility, a rare perk (Wilson did not have an office in Seattle and Heaps had only limited access to the Seahawks’ facility). Several Broncos veterans said they didn’t mind Wilson having his own office, especially because the quarterback spent so much time at the facility.

“He’s got a whiteboard, the sides of the wall, and it’s just littered with (motivational) quotes and new play concepts,” receiver Kendall Hinton said. “It was crazy to see his mind thrown out on the (wall).”

Running back Melvin Gordon said the TV in Wilson’s office was always tuned to NFL Network. “It was just strictly football,” Gordon said. “Anybody could go to his office, and he was like, ‘Hey, if you want to learn extra plays, you want to go over this, you want to go over that?'”

But from the outside, the existence of the office worked against Wilson when his on-field play failed to measure up. And the location of the office — on the facility’s second floor, where Broncos coaches and executives also worked — created an unusual team dynamic.

“The players were always on the first floor; they never really came up to the second floor,” one coach said. “If you came up to the second floor as a player, it honestly wasn’t a good thing because you were probably getting released.”

One offensive player said Wilson told teammates he had an “open-door policy” with his office, which to another coach seemed problematic. “So, are you a coach or are you a player?” the coach asked. “Your open door should be you sitting at your locker.”

Hackett was so pumped to land Wilson he had to censor himself at the team’s introductory press conference after the March trade.

“Russell Wilson,” Hackett said. “Holy sh … ”

Hackett stressed that the best teams were player-led, an idea Wilson echoed to veteran NFL reporter Peter King at training camp.

“This has to be a player-ran kind of team,” Wilson told King. “Coach Hackett gives us the keys to do that.” After his visit, King wrote about Wilson’s relationship with Hackett compared to his relationship with Carroll. King quoted one source close to Wilson, saying: “(Hackett) and Russell are not coach-player. They’re partners.”

Hackett was Green Bay’s offensive coordinator in 2019, the year first-time head coach Matt LaFleur took over after Aaron Rodgers spent 13 years in Mike McCarthy’s offense. Early in the partnership, multiple Packers players said LaFleur would sometimes present a new concept or play in an offensive meeting only to have Rodgers shoot it down.

As the season went on, that dynamic flipped. Rodgers produced at a high level under LaFleur and developed a close bond with Hackett. But one coach in Denver said those turbulent early days in Green Bay may have influenced Hackett’s approach with Wilson.

“I don’t want to do that again,” Hackett said, according to the coach. “I want this transition to be as easy and fluid and quick as possible.”

In Seattle, Wilson wanted more input and an offense suited to his wishes. In Denver, he was handed both.

Hackett signed off on plays presented to him by Wilson for inclusion in the game plan. One offensive coach said the Broncos’ no-huddle package was the one Wilson brought from Seattle, including the quick-tempo “code words” the quarterback used in the two-minute offense. Some felt that Hackett accommodated Wilson to a fault, which hurt the continuity of the offense.

“He had too much influence,” one coach said. “And it was mainly based on what Hackett allowed him to influence.”

Tuesdays are typically players’ only off days during game weeks, but Wilson asked the offense to meet with him at the team facility for “state of the union” meetings, something he also did in Seattle. Broncos guard Dalton Risner said Wilson had the offense “watch film on the next opponent and kind of come to an agreement on what they’re running … and what we can do to beat them.”

While some players grumbled about the meetings, several said they were helpful and well-attended. Risner said the meetings showed the “type of leader Russell is and what he’s willing to do for his team.”

Early in the season, without much Denver film to go on, Wilson occasionally showed clips from his time with the Seahawks. “It was kind of like he was going down memory lane with stuff he’d done in Seattle,” said one offensive player. “It was very strange some weeks.”

Heaps, Wilson’s personal quarterback coach, participated in the Tuesday meetings. Receiver Jerry Jeudy said Heaps “would do the slides and voice his opinion from time to time.”

A former quarterback at BYU, Kansas and Miami, Heaps befriended Wilson in 2016 while in training camp with the Seahawks. A year later, Wilson launched the Russell Wilson Quarterback Academy with Heaps as director of operations and head coach. Heaps also became a sports-talk radio host in Seattle. When Wilson was traded to the Broncos, Heaps quit his radio job and followed the quarterback to Denver.

“He wasn’t a distraction, I don’t think,” an offensive player said of Heaps, “but it was weird that he was in the middle.”

One coach reviewed some of the scouting reports Wilson and Heaps handed out on Tuesdays. The reports were thorough, the coach said, but there were instances when he didn’t agree with their evaluations. Another coach said Heaps’ presence during the season created “a conflict of influence.” Who did Wilson listen to? Heaps? Hackett? Quarterbacks coach Klint Kubiak?

“Too many cooks,” the coach said.

Late in a Week 2 game against the Texans, the crowd in Denver started counting down the play clock while the Broncos possessed the ball, mocking the team’s struggles in executing at the most basic level. The Broncos’ offense had two delay-of-game penalties and labored to get out of the huddle and to the line.

Faced with a decision of whether to go for it on fourth-and-2 or attempt a 54-yard field goal in the third quarter, Hackett elected to kick. But the field-goal team ran onto the field late, and the Broncos took a penalty before opting to punt. It was the second special-teams blunder in as many games for Hackett, who had decided to attempt a controversial 64-yard field goal at the end of the season-opener against the Seahawks instead of putting the game in Wilson’s hands.

After the Houston game, Hackett took responsibility for the problems. “I’d be booing myself,” he said. “I was getting very frustrated.”

Hackett also indicated he could do a better job getting plays to Wilson quicker.

“It’s all about Russ,” Hackett said at the time. “We want to be sure that he’s comfortable, he’s feeling good, and I’m getting a play as fast as I can to him. We want to do what is right for him.”

But several team sources said Hackett typically relayed the play calls to Wilson with 20-25 seconds remaining on the 40-second play clock, and that this was the case against Houston, leaving more than enough time. Those sources said Wilson sometimes struggled to repeat the calls efficiently or offered too much instruction to teammates in the huddle.

Other sources put the issue on the coaches, saying the staff asked Wilson to over-communicate to make sure everyone was aligned.

“Mostly in the beginning, (Wilson) would give us a motivational speech to get us going before that play,” Jeudy said. “I don’t think he would say anything extra or anything unnecessary. He would give us the call and some motivational words and a little something extra like, ‘Get this block,’ but I don’t think it was nothing long-winded.”

“He would always say, ‘Keep believing,'” Hinton said. “‘Believe!'”

With the game-management issues dominating headlines, the Broncos hired longtime former NFL assistant Jerry Rosburg to help Hackett in late September. Meanwhile, public criticism of Wilson gathered momentum. One Denver radio station played Hackett’s “it’s all about Russ” quote on repeat to highlight what it saw as the organization’s deferential treatment of an underperforming quarterback.

With an NFL-high 23 players on injured reserve, including offensive starters Tim Patrick, Javonte Williams and Garett Bolles, the Broncos scored the fewest points in the NFL and lacked an offensive identity.

As one offensive player put it: “Every week felt like, ‘OK, who are we going to be this week?'”

Some believed Hackett and his staff struggled to sift through ideas to put together a clear, workable plan. Others believed Wilson shouldered responsibility. Just about everyone who spoke to The Athletic painted an atmosphere of confusion and uncertainty.

Gordon, who was waived by the Broncos before signing with the Chiefs’ practice squad in late November, said Denver’s offense was a “mixture” of what Wilson ran in Seattle and what Hackett ran in Green Bay.

“It was just …,” Gordon said, pausing, “it was a bit much.”

One coach said Wilson added cadences in games that the offensive line hadn’t practiced much during the week, leading to communication issues. The Broncos had the second-most false starts in the NFL, and the coach said leaders on the line eventually pushed back on the changes.

“When Russell would be like, ‘Hey, we are going to do this,’ they would be like, ‘Hell no,'” the coach said.

Risner, who started 15 games in 2022, confirmed the uncertainty without assigning blame. “There were confusing times during this season where you may wonder why a decision was made and where that decision came from,” he said.

The frustration spilled over during games. Against the Colts in Week 5, receiver K.J. Hamler slammed his helmet to the turf after Wilson failed to see him at the goal line on the final play of a 12-9 overtime loss. When asked about the play after the game, Hamler said he could have “walked in” for a touchdown. During a Week 12 defeat at Carolina, cameras caught defensive lineman Mike Purcell yelling at Wilson on the sideline.

Two days before the Broncos played the 4-10 Rams on Christmas, Denver running back Latavius Murray texted Sean Payton, his former coach in New Orleans, Payton recalled during a Super Bowl-week appearance on “The Pat McAfee Show.”

According to Payton’s account, Murray said, “Hey, my backfield teammate and I hope you come to Denver.” Payton said he was confused and thought about the other running backs on the Broncos’ roster before finally asking Murray who he was talking about.

Murray responded, “No. 3,” according to Payton: Wilson’s number.

The Broncos then lost to the Rams 51-14, their most lopsided defeat since 2010, in a game remembered for backup quarterback Brett Rypien confronting Denver’s offensive line when the group did not help Wilson up after a sack. Wilson finished the game with a season-high three interceptions and a season-low 54.2 passer rating.

The following Monday, the Broncos fired Hackett.

According to team sources, Broncos leadership initiated a conversation with Wilson to talk about changes needed to salvage the end of a lost season. Team leadership brought up Wilson’s office and support staff, and the quarterback agreed to remove his staff from the building and no longer use his office for the final two weeks of the season.

“I didn’t feel any type of change other than he had been in the locker room a lot,” Jeudy said. “He was in there a lot more now that he wasn’t in the office.”

Wilson hired a new publicist as his image suffered through the difficult season. The Broncos headed into this offseason without a head coach or the draft haul they shipped to Seattle.

After a prolonged search that included two flirtations with Michigan’s Jim Harbaugh, an initial interview with Payton that seemed to lead nowhere and an awkward back-and-forth with 49ers defensive coordinator DeMeco Ryans, the Broncos circled back to Payton and hired the coach Wilson urged Seattle to install not quite one calendar year earlier.

“(Payton) is going to set a standard, and you’re going to have to meet it,” said Risner. “That’s what Denver needs. They need him to come in and set a standard, hold guys … accountable and say, ‘Hey, this is what we are going to have to be.'”

For years, Wilson idolized Drew Brees, Payton’s quarterback in New Orleans, and in early 2021, Mark Rodgers, Wilson’s agent, released the names of four teams that Wilson would approve a trade to if the Seahawks dealt him. One team on the list: the Payton-led Saints.

A veteran coach with a Super Bowl ring and a proven offensive pedigree, Payton dined and posed for pictures with Wilson and Joe Montana during Super Bowl week. But Payton also made it clear there would be limits when it came to his quarterback.

In his first appearance as Denver’s head coach, Payton told reporters that Heaps and other Wilson staffers would no longer be working from inside the facility.

“We’re not going to do that here,” he said.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Fri Feb 24, 2023 3:40 pm

I read the article as well. There were at least 3 today . Don’t know if it was Russell dump Friday or what . But to answer my friend River it does matter . The historical context of this breakup is still being written and influenced . There is a huge difference between having philosophical differences with coach and GM and reportedly going directly to the owner to demand their firing . Not normal and not cool considering what they did for him . He got caught in the same lie with Schottie . He demanded his firing it was later learned but put out a huge tweet praising him after he was fired .

At this point short of Russ winning it all the winner and loser has been determined and it doesn’t affect me as a fan going forward but as Govandals said “ this should surprise no one” it’s more validation , more credibility for those who believed Russ had become different then the guy who showed up , living off his legend , a total malcontent . We will see next year . Right now Jodi is looking like a genius .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Fri Feb 24, 2023 4:52 pm

Hawktawk wrote:I read the article as well. There were at least 3 today . Don’t know if it was Russell dump Friday or what . But to answer my friend River it does matter . The historical context of this breakup is still being written and influenced . There is a huge difference between having philosophical differences with coach and GM and reportedly going directly to the owner to demand their firing . Not normal and not cool considering what they did for him . He got caught in the same lie with Schottie . He demanded his firing it was later learned but put out a huge tweet praising him after he was fired .

At this point short of Russ winning it all the winner and loser has been determined and it doesn’t affect me as a fan going forward but as Govandals said “ this should surprise no one” it’s more validation , more credibility for those who believed Russ had become different then the guy who showed up , living off his legend , a total malcontent . We will see next year . Right now Jodi is looking like a genius .


This event, if it did occur, was sometime during or immediately following the 2021 season, well after the breakup of the Hawks' LOB. Sherman was gone. Bennett was gone. Earl was gone. Beast was gone. Baldwin retired. KJ was with the Raiders. Save for Pete, none of the coaching staff remained. All of the team leaders save for Bobby were long gone.

I've always felt that Russell was indirectly responsible for the breakup of the LOB, but not in the way you are characterizing it. The information I've read, and a subject we've discussed for several years before this incident allegedly happened, had more to do with Pete's treatment of Russell than it did any active participation by him. The complaint was that Pete would call out other individuals on the team for their mistakes but would never openly criticize Russell, at least not in front of the team. Pete was the focus of their angst, not Russell.

That's why I say that it's not a big deal, has no effect on anything regarding this team's future or how history will remember the Hawks' LOB.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Stream Hawk » Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:11 pm

Wait North, you are actually on Russ’s side after what we witnessed last season? I remember 2020 season well. Who doesn’t - we were all stuck at home quarantining :) :roll: Russ was killing it for the first 5 weeks, then he sucked big time after that. Want to know why? Real teams with real defenses figured him out. Two safeties to stop the deep ball. And he was not good enough to offset their strategy.

I still have his jersey. My kids painted “Russell Wilson #3” on their backyard fort. Love the guy for what he did in his prime here, but his ship has sailed. I’m almost positive Payton cannot fix him. Keep this post I don’t care, I’ll own up to it if I’m wrong.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Aseahawkfan » Fri Feb 24, 2023 8:27 pm

Stream Hawk wrote:Wait North, you are actually on Russ’s side after what we witnessed last season? I remember 2020 season well. Who doesn’t - we were all stuck at home quarantining :) :roll: Russ was killing it for the first 5 weeks, then he sucked big time after that. Want to know why? Real teams with real defenses figured him out. Two safeties to stop the deep ball. And he was not good enough to offset their strategy.

I still have his jersey. My kids painted “Russell Wilson #3” on their backyard fort. Love the guy for what he did in his prime here, but his ship has sailed. I’m almost positive Payton cannot fix him. Keep this post I don’t care, I’ll own up to it if I’m wrong.


Let me add another conspiracy: Russ played badly last year so he could get Payton as his coach and win comeback player of the year award to add to his awards list.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Stream Hawk » Fri Feb 24, 2023 9:16 pm

Sorry ASea for sending you a PM. I’m turning in the HawkTawk tonight sucking at editing this stuff. This is what I tried to say:

Yeah, that’s somehow worse than Marshawn purposely not getting the ball to win Super Bowl 49
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Aseahawkfan » Sat Feb 25, 2023 4:32 am

I see, Stream. No problem.

At this point I see this thread as a repository for every Russell conspiracy theory from "anonymous sources" because sports journalism has not standards and it's all about clicks and half-truths and manufacturing stories out of events making them seem more sinister than they are. Happens to plenty of players at some point, but whoever is pushing this is going hard at Russ rewriting nearly everything he's ever done as something far more sinister than it is including his charity work. It's obviously an orchestrated campaign by people that don't much like him or people who just want some clicks for a current trend of kicking Russ while he's down.

Either way it'll be up to Russ to change the story by rising or retiring. Years from now if we don't have another Super Bowl, he'll be well-remembered by fans that remember how fun the first five years of his career was when the team was the best to ever exist in Seattle at nearly every position.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 25, 2023 7:44 am

Aseahawkfan wrote:I see, Stream. No problem.

At this point I see this thread as a repository for every Russell conspiracy theory from "anonymous sources" because sports journalism has not standards and it's all about clicks and half-truths and manufacturing stories out of events making them seem more sinister than they are. Happens to plenty of players at some point, but whoever is pushing this is going hard at Russ rewriting nearly everything he's ever done as something far more sinister than it is including his charity work. It's obviously an orchestrated campaign by people that don't much like him or people who just want some clicks for a current trend of kicking Russ while he's down.

Either way it'll be up to Russ to change the story by rising or retiring. Years from now if we don't have another Super Bowl, he'll be well-remembered by fans that remember how fun the first five years of his career was when the team was the best to ever exist in Seattle at nearly every position.


I created the thread in part to keep the subject of Russell Wilson out of the other Seahawk and football related topics and keep the focus on our team, and it seems to have done that. He's a former Seahawk, so especially now that all the draft slots from the trade have been decided, he's not relevant to Seahawk subjects except in a historical aspect. It's incredible how many comments the thread has attracted. It's up to 18 pages, which has to be a forum record, and it's still growing and likely to continue to grow for some time.

Russell is definitely the Flavor of the Day when it comes to this type of gossipy stuff, and to be honest, he's asked for it with his cringy statements, like saying that he heals quickly due to his wolverine blood, and his at times downright goofy behavior, like doing knee highs on a 10 hour plane flight to Europe while his teammates were all asleep, those hideous Subway commercials, his telling everyone how he doesn't have a BM for days, and so on. When you're playing badly and your team is losing like they did in 2022, it's best just to lay low, but he keeps bringing attention to himself with his eccentric and unusual behavior.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 25, 2023 9:36 am

Here's a local commentary on The Atlantic article from Matt Calkins, a Seattle Times columnist, posted without comment:

Trying to get Pete Carroll to bad-mouth a former player of his is like trying to get an Auburn fan to yell “Roll Tide!” The Seahawks coach doesn’t do it — even when it would be justified.

Richard Sherman blamed Carroll for costing them the Super Bowl after a sideline explosion in 2016, but Pete never once chided him in public. Earl Thomas flipped him the bird in his final game as a Seahawk, yet Carroll did nothing but laud the safety in ensuing news conferences.

Examples such as these abound, which is why one particular response stood out before the Seahawks’ season opener vs. Denver last September.

Any thoughts on fans potentially booing Russell Wilson?

“You are either competing, or you are not. … It’s game time, and we are going for it, so however [fans] take it, I will follow their lead on that,” Carroll said. “I’ll leave it up to the 12s. I think they will know exactly what to do.”

That wasn’t love for a quarterback that shined in Seattle for 10 years and led the Seahawks to their only Super Bowl title. That was a signal to the fans to let the boo birds rain.

Could Pete’s answer simply have been a reflection of his competitive nature? Sure. Or maybe he was still fuming that Wilson … tried to get him fired.

That’s what a Friday report from the Athletic alleged anyway. It said that Wilson asked ownership to can Carroll and Seahawks general manager John Schneider because he “was convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards.”

The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud.

One of the reasons fans are so warm to a player such as Marshawn Lynch is because they feel they are seeing authenticity epitomized. It’s not as if Beast Mode didn’t create unnecessary tension during his time in Seattle, as he’d regularly question authority and occasionally skip team bus rides. But people knew who he was.

Same is true of Sherman, who has irked thousands of 12s over the years, yet still received a booming ovation at a Seattle charity basketball event last year. He’s real. People know that. Wilson comes off as the furthest thing from that.

Russell would give all the prepackaged answers about how dedicated he was to the Seahawks, then drum up a list of four teams he’d be willing to be traded to. He’d try to come off like just one of the guys, but then have his own staff and office in the Broncos’ building. And if this report is true — to go after a coach and GM’s livelihood? Such a departure from the image Wilson cultivated.


https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ass-fired/
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Sat Feb 25, 2023 2:55 pm

RiverDog wrote:Here's a local commentary on The Atlantic article from Matt Calkins, a Seattle Times columnist, posted without comment:

Trying to get Pete Carroll to bad-mouth a former player of his is like trying to get an Auburn fan to yell “Roll Tide!” The Seahawks coach doesn’t do it — even when it would be justified.

Richard Sherman blamed Carroll for costing them the Super Bowl after a sideline explosion in 2016, but Pete never once chided him in public. Earl Thomas flipped him the bird in his final game as a Seahawk, yet Carroll did nothing but laud the safety in ensuing news conferences.

Examples such as these abound, which is why one particular response stood out before the Seahawks’ season opener vs. Denver last September.

Any thoughts on fans potentially booing Russell Wilson?

“You are either competing, or you are not. … It’s game time, and we are going for it, so however [fans] take it, I will follow their lead on that,” Carroll said. “I’ll leave it up to the 12s. I think they will know exactly what to do.”

That wasn’t love for a quarterback that shined in Seattle for 10 years and led the Seahawks to their only Super Bowl title. That was a signal to the fans to let the boo birds rain.

Could Pete’s answer simply have been a reflection of his competitive nature? Sure. Or maybe he was still fuming that Wilson … tried to get him fired.

That’s what a Friday report from the Athletic alleged anyway. It said that Wilson asked ownership to can Carroll and Seahawks general manager John Schneider because he “was convinced that Carroll and Schneider were inhibiting his quest to win additional Super Bowls and individual awards.”

The sources were anonymous, and Wilson denied doing so, but I doubt many people will believe him. Fair or not, Russell’s reputation in Seattle will likely never recover from this. Most folks will always see him as a fraud.

One of the reasons fans are so warm to a player such as Marshawn Lynch is because they feel they are seeing authenticity epitomized. It’s not as if Beast Mode didn’t create unnecessary tension during his time in Seattle, as he’d regularly question authority and occasionally skip team bus rides. But people knew who he was.

Same is true of Sherman, who has irked thousands of 12s over the years, yet still received a booming ovation at a Seattle charity basketball event last year. He’s real. People know that. Wilson comes off as the furthest thing from that.

Russell would give all the prepackaged answers about how dedicated he was to the Seahawks, then drum up a list of four teams he’d be willing to be traded to. He’d try to come off like just one of the guys, but then have his own staff and office in the Broncos’ building. And if this report is true — to go after a coach and GM’s livelihood? Such a departure from the image Wilson cultivated.


https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/sea ... ass-fired/


It’s not just your thread here where Russell is being discussed . It’s everywhere in sports media , several articles today alone . I saw an article titled “ did Russell change or just get exposed “ didn’t read or link it obviously but there’s still a fascination among the national sports fan base . It’s just the utter irony of a guy who worked so hard to craft this squeaky clean reputation is taking on some serious water and it’s all his own doing .

It was obvious Pete had an edge all year . Imagine him having to answer questions about a guy he had created who tried to get him fired . He’s a better man than I or probably lots of people . Pete might not be around long but glad he won this battle . It was a blessing in so many ways .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 25, 2023 3:51 pm

Hawktawk wrote:It’s not just your thread here where Russell is being discussed . It’s everywhere in sports media , several articles today alone . I saw an article titled “ did Russell change or just get exposed “ didn’t read or link it obviously but there’s still a fascination among the national sports fan base . It’s just the utter irony of a guy who worked so hard to craft this squeaky clean reputation is taking on some serious water and it’s all his own doing.


Oh, I agree completely. As I said earlier in the thread, Russell is the Flavor of the Day for the national sports media. It seems like every other week there's something negative being said about him. A couple weeks ago, it was his charity. Now it's this story published in the Atlantic. Ever since things started going south for the Broncos last season, the media has been batting Russell around like a pinata at a 5 year old's birthday party. And in comparison to what social media has been saying about him, the mainstream media has been very kind. He's truly become a laughing stock.

And as I stated earlier, I have very little sympathy for him. He made his own bed. He fails to realize that being the centerpiece of such a poor season and to this point horrendous trade that he's going to be about as popular as a bumble bee in a nudist colony. And yes, it is ironic how someone with such an obsession about his image has managed to turn himself into the laughingstock of the league. He's certainly lost a lot of credibility in my eyes. I don't believe him for a minute when he said that he didn't lobby to have Pete and John fired. That commentary in the Seattle Times made a lot of sense to me.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:42 pm

It’s a mixed bag for Russell Wilson’s legacy. Came in the league, took the starting job as a rookie, wowed with his mobility, big time plays, and calm under pressure. Topped that off with being a stand up guy visiting the children’s hospital and handling himself professionally in his post game.

Something has changed; he’s not immune to circumstances and experiences through the passage of time. Doesn’t mean he’s not still a stand up guy, but something is definitely different and has been for a few years now. Perhaps money begets a heightened ego. Perhaps he’s seeing the clock ticking and hasn’t achieved what he desires. That marred by the goofy stuff that’s come out recently, to whatever degree it is true, isn’t helping his image.

His best course of action is to get back to being head down ass up and make it happen on the field. Winning cures a ton of ills in competitive sports, especially professional.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:56 pm

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:It’s a mixed bag for Russell Wilson’s legacy. Came in the league, took the starting job as a rookie, wowed with his mobility, big time plays, and calm under pressure. Topped that off with being a stand up guy visiting the children’s hospital and handling himself professionally in his post game.

Something has changed; he’s not immune to circumstances and experiences through the passage of time. Doesn’t mean he’s not still a stand up guy, but something is definitely different and has been for a few years now. Perhaps money begets a heightened ego. Perhaps he’s seeing the clock ticking and hasn’t achieved what he desires. That marred by the goofy stuff that’s come out recently, to whatever degree it is true, isn’t helping his image.

His best course of action is to get back to being head down ass up and make it happen on the field. Winning cures a ton of ills in competitive sports, especially professional.


I've thought about that, too, how, or rather why, Russell has changed. It seems to have coincided with his divorce from his first wife and his subsequent marriage to Ciera. I have no proof other than circumstantial evidence, but something is definitely different about him.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Feb 26, 2023 8:07 am

I met Russell briefly with his first wife outside the edgewater after a shutout thrashing of the Cards in 2012. He was polite , soft spoken , seemed very humble and appreciative . Driving a small Mercedes’ SUV. Ashton didn’t look happy . Who knows , my divorce hardened me , made it tougher for my current wife . It was in that timeframe Russ developed the poser hip hop
Personna . I specifically recall the post game presser after Atlanta in the divisional when future and his gang band possee were screaming stuff at him from the sidelines. Then he played an awful second half to doom us even with much of the lob intact . He got up and I’m paraphrasing but it was oh well we will get them next year, can’t win them all . Not properly pissed or dissapointed . Then he started talking about some stadium project he was involved with that he would be working on. I was truly angered . I hear about the hunger and work ethic but he didn’t seem too hungry except at meal time . But then the guy would play amazing and I’d buy the fools gold we could get to the top again . Honestly 5 years ago I wouldn’t trade Wilson for anyone . That was a long time ago though . I don’t think it’s fixable . It doesn’t matter to me . I have no sympathy . You sow seeds of phoniness you reap a bitter harvest . Like preacher man telling everybody how to live then getting caught with the secretary . People relish attacking phoniness .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:03 am

Beast recently sounded off about Russell Wilson as a teammate:

“Russ and Pete, I feel like they were just in a great position to utilize and capitalize on the team that we really had,” said Lynch during a recent appearance on the I Am Athlete Podcast. “I played with Russ, and that little (expletive) is good, do you know what I’m saying? I watched [him] come through and make plays make throws, and I watched him make sacrifices. Yeah, I’m hot because we didn’t win the second Super Bowl, but at the end of the day, I really watched his sacrifice.”

“He’s good with me as a football player,” Lynch said. “Just knowing what he’s going to do and the way that he’s going to prepare, I’d pick him on my team; yeah, I got Russ. Alright, he’s a little different, ya’ll, so don’t trip, but he can throw that (expletive), and his little ass can run too.”

When asked about Russell’s personality, Lynch was frank in how different the two backfield mates were.

“Me and Russ are two different types of individuals, which is cool," Lynch said. "But at the end of the day, when we go and play on Sunday, he’s going to sacrifice. Whether he was weak or he was great, I knew that he was going to put everything out there. At the end of the day, I can respect that as a football player.”


https://www.si.com/nfl/broncos/news/mar ... on-broncos

And just to show that it's not limited to the offensive side of the ball, here's what Cliff Avril had to say about Russell as a teammate:

With the criticism continuing to rain down on Wilson, one of his former teammates, Cliff Avril, decided to step up in a show of support. He offered a more positive take on Wilson, both the player and the person, denouncing those who continue to take shots at the quarterback.

“I usually stay out (of) the way and stay in my own lane but it’s tough watching people go in on someone every year and he never defends himself so things keep stacking up,” Avril tweeted. “It’s unreal! Personally, as a teammate and a man have never had any issues with how he’s moved. Always been a stand-up guy towards my family and I! Sometimes people just don’t like things they don’t understand. Something’s ain’t meant to be understood.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ex ... r-AA17VL0M

If those comments from two players who were undeniably part of the leaders on the team isn't enough to dispel the myth that Russell was somehow responsible for the demise of the LOB, I don't know how many more would have to come out in order for it to be a satisfactory rebuttal for some. If anyone is to blame, it's the coaching staff.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Feb 26, 2023 10:16 am

I saw that and it’s 2 examples from guys many years removed . Tempers cool . Beast has always damned Wilson with faint praise . He doesn’t blame Wilson for the interception other then saying he should have changed the play .

Avril of course had his career ended by injury and as I recall he was one who spoke up for Russel when the 2017 sports illustrated article you shared here broke . But it doesn’t negate that article , the reports of him checking out in 21, the absolutely brutal takedowns by other teammates , members of the media . Baldwin …. Oh my . One of the most brutal Gifs I ever saw after the Denver game .

Denver media is all over the guy . The truth is often in the middle but 2 guys defending and 50 remaining silent or attacking might prove the opposite .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby obiken » Sun Feb 26, 2023 11:22 am

Hawktawk wrote:I saw that and it’s 2 examples from guys many years removed . Tempers cool . Beast has always damned Wilson with faint praise . He doesn’t blame Wilson for the interception other then saying he should have changed the play .

Avril of course had his career ended by injury and as I recall he was one who spoke up for Russel when the 2017 sports illustrated article you shared here broke . But it doesn’t negate that article , the reports of him checking out in 21, the absolutely brutal takedowns by other teammates , members of the media . Baldwin …. Oh my . One of the most brutal Gifs I ever saw after the Denver game .

Denver media is all over the guy . The truth is often in the middle but 2 guys defending and 50 remaining silent or attacking might prove the opposite .


I leave to Idaho for a week and we are STILL talking about Russ? Come on guys, Russ is the past. Its over, its like a bad marriage that was worse than we all thought but its over now! We gotta let him go. Things will change with SP in charge and he will be in charge. I think they win 9 games, but thats just me!
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Sun Feb 26, 2023 12:54 pm

obiken wrote:I leave to Idaho for a week and we are STILL talking about Russ? Come on guys, Russ is the past. Its over, its like a bad marriage that was worse than we all thought but its over now! We gotta let him go.


Obi, my friend, with all due respect, if you don't think we should be talking about Russell Wilson, then don't enter the thread. It is appropriately titled.

Like it or not, Russell Wilson is going to be a hot topic that most posters in here are going to want to talk about, most likely right up until he retires, perhaps longer. One of the reasons I started the thread was so we could keep the subject of our former quarterback from diverting our other threads off the subject, and it seems to have done that quite well.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Sun Feb 26, 2023 1:26 pm

Obi the story about going around Pete to try and get he and John fired is only 48 hours old . The stuff being shared here is straight out of the news . I find it bizarre the level of interest that remains . It will only stop if he wins again . As far as 9 who knows . I’ve heard he’s getting in better shape so that’s a start . Payton hired a 28 year old qb coach for a 34 years old qb. That’s interesting .

Just in that division it’s not going to be easy for the time being with 2 superstar QBs and 1 who is in it for the title every year . As I say it’s no skin off my back whatever . He can win it all if he’s good enough and I don’t care .

It’s just like a train wreck with all the hit pieces , you want to watch .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:50 am

Hawktawk wrote:Obi the story about going around Pete to try and get he and John fired is only 48 hours old . The stuff being shared here is straight out of the news . I find it bizarre the level of interest that remains . It will only stop if he wins again . As far as 9 who knows . I’ve heard he’s getting in better shape so that’s a start . Payton hired a 28 year old qb coach for a 34 years old qb. That’s interesting .

Just in that division it’s not going to be easy for the time being with 2 superstar QBs and 1 who is in it for the title every year . As I say it’s no skin off my back whatever . He can win it all if he’s good enough and I don’t care .

It’s just like a train wreck with all the hit pieces , you want to watch .


Yeah, Russell Wilson makes for some great drama, especially this time of year in the offseason during the slow news cycle.

Don't expect the topic of his allegedly lobbying to get Pete and John fired to go anywhere anytime soon. With the combine coming up, you can be sure that the media will be grilling Pete and John about the report in the Atlantic as no one from the Seahawks has responded to it. But regardless of if the story is true or not, they'll deny it, and only a fool would take their word. We only have to look as far back as this time last year for a stark example of Russ and Pete's dishonesty.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:33 am

I didn’t hear much out of Pete and john except thanks for the memories and no comment . When pressed about the impact of losing a vocal leader like Russ Pete said “ Russ said lots of things but not everyone bought in . “

Oooohh. Flame job . My guess this was one of the more enjoyable seasons of Pete’s career with that 500 lb gorilla gone still overachieving .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:05 am

There are a couple of things at play here from what I see.
One is that it's the off season so writers are digging up things that otherwise would only be passing comments and secondly they are under pressure for clicks - so they can get paid.
That's not to say it isn't all untrue, but the presentation might be misleading.

For instance, when Jody talked to Russ, it's been presented in this forum that Wilson issued an ultimatum of them or me.
It might very well have been a question asked of him and he could have answered that he would have a lot of trouble buying into another season with the same philosophy on Offense and if things didn't change he would feel smothered or trapped in a
system that doesn't want to win it all or is incapable of taking the next steps toward that goal.
The real story is probably somewhere in the middle of the two scenarios. He never demanded a trade but also showed his displeasure with how the team was being coached and resulting lack of success so the decision was made to get what they could
for him while he was thought to be near the top of his game.

The odd thing about the goings on is we now have an Offense that does what Russ has said he wanted for quite a while and Pete has changed his philosophy on both sides of the ball. So maybe something was said to Pete and John afterwards to cause
them to make these significant changes. Whatever it was that caused the Offensive changes, it's a good thing but 7 or 8 years too late.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:51 am

NorthHawk wrote:There are a couple of things at play here from what I see.
One is that it's the off season so writers are digging up things that otherwise would only be passing comments and secondly they are under pressure for clicks - so they can get paid.
That's not to say it isn't all untrue, but the presentation might be misleading.

For instance, when Jody talked to Russ, it's been presented in this forum that Wilson issued an ultimatum of them or me.
It might very well have been a question asked of him and he could have answered that he would have a lot of trouble buying into another season with the same philosophy on Offense and if things didn't change he would feel smothered or trapped in a
system that doesn't want to win it all or is incapable of taking the next steps toward that goal.
The real story is probably somewhere in the middle of the two scenarios. He never demanded a trade but also showed his displeasure with how the team was being coached and resulting lack of success so the decision was made to get what they could
for him while he was thought to be near the top of his game.

The odd thing about the goings on is we now have an Offense that does what Russ has said he wanted for quite a while and Pete has changed his philosophy on both sides of the ball. So maybe something was said to Pete and John afterwards to cause
them to make these significant changes. Whatever it was that caused the Offensive changes, it's a good thing but 7 or 8 years too late.


That's absolutely true. If you look at Russell's response to the Athletic story, he said that he never wanted Pete and John to be fired. He could have said that they should resign or that they, or at least Pete, should retire and still technically be telling the truth, at least in his own mind. It would be the same thing he did last year when he said that he 'wanted' to play here another 20 years. "I wanted to play here, but the FO just wouldn't agree to my terms to force Pete to retire." It's a politician/lawyer's trick, a game of semantics. That's why I don't believe a single thing that comes out of either of those guys' mouths when it comes to a subject like that.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Feb 27, 2023 12:48 pm

NorthHawk wrote:There are a couple of things at play here from what I see.
One is that it's the off season so writers are digging up things that otherwise would only be passing comments and secondly they are under pressure for clicks - so they can get paid.
That's not to say it isn't all untrue, but the presentation might be misleading.

For instance, when Jody talked to Russ, it's been presented in this forum that Wilson issued an ultimatum of them or me.
It might very well have been a question asked of him and he could have answered that he would have a lot of trouble buying into another season with the same philosophy on Offense and if things didn't change he would feel smothered or trapped in a
system that doesn't want to win it all or is incapable of taking the next steps toward that goal.
The real story is probably somewhere in the middle of the two scenarios. He never demanded a trade but also showed his displeasure with how the team was being coached and resulting lack of success so the decision was made to get what they could
for him while he was thought to be near the top of his game.

The odd thing about the goings on is we now have an Offense that does what Russ has said he wanted for quite a while and Pete has changed his philosophy on both sides of the ball. So maybe something was said to Pete and John afterwards to cause
them to make these significant changes. Whatever it was that caused the Offensive changes, it's a good thing but 7 or 8 years too late.


“ RD
That's absolutely true. If you look at Russell's response to the Athletic story, he said that he never wanted Pete and John to be fired. He could have said that they should resign or that they, or at least Pete, should retire and still technically be telling the truth, at least in his own mind. It would be the same thing he did last year when he said that he 'wanted' to play here another 20 years. "I wanted to play here, but the FO just wouldn't agree to my terms to force Pete to retire." It's a politician/lawyer's trick, a game of semantics. That's why I don't believe a single thing that comes out of either of those guys' mouths when it comes to a subject like that.[/quote]

First North I’m just confused about all the supposed offensive changes . Besides Russ went to Denver and ran “ whatever he wants “ to the tune of 15 TDs and 3 k yards . And for all the Hackett bashing I saw numerous games lost on Russels right arm and between his ears . Missing or not seeing wide open guys . Stupid sacks a league high 56. He wasn’t right about anything

I hear about motion etc in our new improved offense . Seems we always ran motion and it’s only worth so much anyway . You have to execute at some point .

As to Russell’s latest scandal it reads “ Russel tried to get Pete and John fired “ hard stop . No speculation on how it looked or sounded or if Russ was polite or whatever or if he said them or me.

To the defense of Pete and John basically lying why wouldn’t they . Getting a call from Jodi informing them of Russell’s ultimatum . The trade had to have secrecy and thank god he’s gone . It’s clear that Russel has been lying for years from Mark Rodgers cursing John on the phone over Russ not getting to throw enough in wins to keep his mvp hopes alive . Crashing a coaches meeting to demand more input into the game plan which he didn’t get and the team won easily . Demanding Brian schottenheimer be fired then launching a masterful tweet praising him “ great coach , great friend , brother in Christ “ then the needless comments about getting hit , lying about team shopping . Then even after the trade the needless hurtful comments about going to a winning city and even worse attacking former teammates talking about mental leaders being on the roster “ already “
The Seahawks organization and Pete and john have had going on a week to clean this up , deny it .
I buy it in its entirety after what I’ve seen . I think when you consider that Pete and John took a third round runt and put him on the brink of the hall of fame , what he’s done is despicable and he really overestimated himself doing it . I’ll never get props but I feel vindicated in my feelings about the guy , especially the last few years . I won’t forget the greatness but this memory will linger .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Feb 27, 2023 4:56 pm

NorthHawk wrote:There are a couple of things at play here from what I see.
One is that it's the off season so writers are digging up things that otherwise would only be passing comments and secondly they are under pressure for clicks - so they can get paid.
That's not to say it isn't all untrue, but the presentation might be misleading.

For instance, when Jody talked to Russ, it's been presented in this forum that Wilson issued an ultimatum of them or me.
It might very well have been a question asked of him and he could have answered that he would have a lot of trouble buying into another season with the same philosophy on Offense and if things didn't change he would feel smothered or trapped in a
system that doesn't want to win it all or is incapable of taking the next steps toward that goal.
The real story is probably somewhere in the middle of the two scenarios. He never demanded a trade but also showed his displeasure with how the team was being coached and resulting lack of success so the decision was made to get what they could
for him while he was thought to be near the top of his game.

The odd thing about the goings on is we now have an Offense that does what Russ has said he wanted for quite a while and Pete has changed his philosophy on both sides of the ball. So maybe something was said to Pete and John afterwards to cause
them to make these significant changes. Whatever it was that caused the Offensive changes, it's a good thing but 7 or 8 years too late.


How do you think Sean Payton will use Russ?
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:24 pm

Aseahawkfan wrote:
How do you think Sean Payton will use Russ?

Probably at QB.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:40 pm

c_hawkbob wrote:Probably at QB.


Now I'm hearing the pun "ba dum dum" drums.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby NorthHawk » Mon Feb 27, 2023 5:41 pm

How do you think Sean Payton will use Russ?


Good one, Bob. You must be feeling better.

He comes from the Parcells tree and has been known to use and design plays that his QBs are good at so I would expect him to run a number of the same types of plays he was successful with in Seattle. However, I would think there will also be a lot of other plays that he never ran here and more motion and use of RBs in the passing game. Probably have the Seahawks type of plays with a bit of a twist to keep the Defense off balance.

What I’ll be interested in is if Payton can get Russ to be more of a timing passer when called upon.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Aseahawkfan » Mon Feb 27, 2023 6:16 pm

Payton is Russell's dream coach according to that Athletic article if it is to be believed.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby c_hawkbob » Mon Feb 27, 2023 7:37 pm

Good one, Bob. You must be feeling better.


Thanks! Yeah I'm getting a little better at a few things left handed and for a couple hours after a vicodin I'm OK to post ... sorta.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Mon Feb 27, 2023 8:05 pm

At qb lmfao.
It will end the debate once and for all . If Payton and Russ make it work a tip of the cap .
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 28, 2023 9:36 am

I'm retracing old ground, but Russell Wilson's problems were also partially of his own making. Holding on to the ball and running around until something broke loose was a marvel to behold when he could pull it off regularly. It hasn't been that way for a while, and old habits die hard. Hopefully, S.P. can get him to take what the defense gives him and find those guys on the short and middle depth routes between the hashes. Gone are the days where Wilson can hold on to the ball for the deep strike. Drew Brees was able to keep playing because he made plays all over the field; Wilson needs to do that too.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:19 am

Good one, Bob. You must be feeling better.


c_hawkbob wrote:Thanks! Yeah I'm getting a little better at a few things left handed and for a couple hours after a vicodin I'm OK to post ... sorta.


Excellent! Hang in there!
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:48 am

MackStrongIsMyHero wrote:I'm retracing old ground, but Russell Wilson's problems were also partially of his own making. Holding on to the ball and running around until something broke loose was a marvel to behold when he could pull it off regularly. It hasn't been that way for a while, and old habits die hard. Hopefully, S.P. can get him to take what the defense gives him and find those guys on the short and middle depth routes between the hashes. Gone are the days where Wilson can hold on to the ball for the deep strike. Drew Brees was able to keep playing because he made plays all over the field; Wilson needs to do that too.


If there's a metric that best explains Russell Wilson's problem, it's his time to throw number. We've discussed it on a number of occasions. Bringing in Waldron was supposed to fix it, but it didn't. And it's still his biggest problem in Denver. Last season, there were only two players with 200+ attempts that had a longer time to throw number than Russell: Lamar Jackson...by two hundredths of a second...and Justin Fields.

Another number that dovetails with that stat is average intended air yardage (IAY), the length of their average pass. Russell's average was 8.8 yards, or within the top 25% of all starting QB's. Tom Brady's IAY was 7.0, Patrick Mahomes 7.5, Joe Burrow 7.2, Justin Herbert 6.7, Aaron Rodgers and Geno Smith 8.0.

Lastly, Russell led the league in sack yardage lost and tied with Fields for the most total sacks taken.

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/pass ... nded-yards

When you put those three stats together, it becomes pretty clear that Russell has been doing exactly what Mack indicated: Holding onto the ball looking for the deep strike.

That's going to be the challenge for Sean Payton: Getting Russell to buy into the fact that he's holding onto the ball too long and looking to throw too deep.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby NorthHawk » Tue Feb 28, 2023 10:57 am

Payton used a lot of timing passes with NO like seam routes and quick outs.
That will be key for Russ and determine his future if he can't adapt. We know he can throw the long ball very well, but can he consistently complete throws that are 3 or 5 step drops and a throw?
We'll know by November, I suspect.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby MackStrongIsMyHero » Tue Feb 28, 2023 11:38 am

NorthHawk wrote:Payton used a lot of timing passes with NO like seam routes and quick outs.
That will be key for Russ and determine his future if he can't adapt. We know he can throw the long ball very well, but can he consistently complete throws that are 3 or 5 step drops and a throw?
We'll know by November, I suspect.


Feels like it's S.P. or bust for Wilson. Another season like 2022 will be hard to come back from.
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby TriCitySam » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:29 pm

Pete had his chance to deny the report, but as Pete always does, gave a pretty classy response:

“I’m always going to hang with them, and I’m never going to leave them. I’m going to be there at the end of all of the good stuff, all of the bad stuff,” Carroll said Tuesday when asked at the NFL combine about The Athletic’s report on Wilson requesting to have Carroll fired. “It doesn’t matter who the guy is. … Regardless of what has happened or taken place or the things that have been said at all, if you hang with them, it all comes back around. I like to demonstrate that faith in the relationship and the depth of what we did together and hang through what growth challenges bring to us along the way.”
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby Hawktawk » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:32 pm

NorthHawk wrote:Payton used a lot of timing passes with NO like seam routes and quick outs.
That will be key for Russ and determine his future if he can't adapt. We know he can throw the long ball very well, but can he consistently complete throws that are 3 or 5 step drops and a throw?
We'll know by November, I suspect.


“ Mack
Feels like it's S.P. or bust for Wilson. Another season like 2022 will be hard to come back from.[/quote]

Saw that about Pete . Didn’t deny it but total class . Love the guy .
This is strictly analysis , not wish or axe to grind . Payton had 15 years with Drew Brees, an unquestionably first ballot HOF . He still had 4 7-9 seasons in a row at one point . But back to Brees . Incredibly accurate , disciplined , mobile but no runner , a pocket passer despite his short height who STOOD ON HIS TOES as he moved in the pocket .
Russ has never been that guy , he’s never been a 3 step drop one route guy and he’s not and going to become one in his 12th year .

Peyton needs to add his magic to what Russ does best . Read option , pounding run game to go play action deep off of . Lots of sideline routes so Russ can see snd thread thr needle. A lot like the offense he won with here .

Russel ball dangerrruss won’t win the mvp but it will win lots of games , won a super bowl . It’s reported Wilson closed his office in week 16 last year and I’ve en heard he’s getting in much better shape which is the most important thing for him Especially his mind , his will to win . He had it for a long time and the talent to do something about it . It’s mainly up to Russ . As for Sean Payton he’s surely made clear to ownership he’s not going down trying to save wilson . Russ is on the clock week one IMO
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Re: Russell Wilson

Postby RiverDog » Tue Feb 28, 2023 12:47 pm

Pete Carroll was asked directly if Russell Wilson had lobbied to get him and JS fired. Here was his response:

Carroll was asked about Wilson’s me-or-them demand to Seahawks’ ownership, and the coach didn’t deny the story.

“My response to that is a similar response that’s always been with the guys that I’ve coached,” Carroll said Tuesday. “I’m always going to hang with them, and I’m never going to leave them. I’m going to be there at the end, with all of the good stuff and all of the bad stuff. I’m going to still be there. That’s it. I’m hanging. It doesn’t matter who the guy is. If you look at all of the guys that have come to our program, not just back to the college days, but just here at Seattle, regardless of what has happened or has taken place or things that have been said at all, if you hang with them, it all comes back around. I like to demonstrate that faith in the relationship and the depth of what we did together and hang through whatever the growth challenges bring along the way, so I’m good.”


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2 ... him-fired/

That pretty much confirms the story published in the Athletic. If the story were false, Pete would have denied it, but he can't confirm it because he'd essentially be calling Russell Wilson, who has already denied the allegation, a liar, something that Pete is reluctant to do. So Pete had two choices: Tell an outright lie and deny the story like Russell has or duck the question and give some sort of gobbledygook answer that has little to do with the subject and that no one can understand and hope like hell the reporter doesn't follow up by making him answer yes or no to the question.
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