James Carpenter - Skipping the Off-Season Buffet's?

[savvyman]

Over at field gulls the following quote got my attention:

PC noted that RB Christine Michael is in excellent shape, as is OG James Carpenter, who is the lightest he's been since he's been with the team. He said that Cassius Marsh will play in the Michael Bennett role, and that they plan to beef him up from the 260 pounds he's currently at.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/on-the-airwav ... talks-ball

Must be a contract year?

[RiverDog]

Over at field gulls the following quote got my attention:

PC noted that RB Christine Michael is in excellent shape, as is OG James Carpenter, who is the lightest he's been since he's been with the team. He said that Cassius Marsh will play in the Michael Bennett role, and that they plan to beef him up from the 260 pounds he's currently at.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/on-the-airwav ... talks-ball

Must be a contract year?

That confirms the rumors I've heard about Carpenter, but I never thought of Michael as being in anything but excellent shape.

[NorthHawk]

I had forgotten we had signed Jackson Jeffcoat as a UFA. It surprised me he wasn't drafted.
He might be this years player to make the team without being drafted.

[RiverDog]

I had forgotten we had signed Jackson Jeffcoat as a UFA. It surprised me he wasn't drafted.
He might be this years player to make the team without being drafted.

Yea, for the first time since 1937, Texas didn't have a single player drafted. Amazing when you consider the fact that they are by far the most profitable football program in the country.

[PasadenaHawk]

I had forgotten we had signed Jackson Jeffcoat as a UFA. It surprised me he wasn't drafted.
He might be this years player to make the team without being drafted.

Yea, for the first time since 1937, Texas didn't have a single player drafted. Amazing when you consider the fact that they are by far the most profitable football program in the country.

Wow! had no idea. thanks River for that.

[RiverDog]

I had forgotten we had signed Jackson Jeffcoat as a UFA. It surprised me he wasn't drafted.
He might be this years player to make the team without being drafted.

Yea, for the first time since 1937, Texas didn't have a single player drafted. Amazing when you consider the fact that they are by far the most profitable football program in the country.

Wow! had no idea. thanks River for that.

No problem, Pasadena. It surprised me, too.

A couple of us older posters will remember Jeffcoat's old man, Jim Jeffcoat, when he played DE for the Cowboys.

[Zorn76]

Carpenter still has a lot to prove.

When it's news that you're actually in the kind of shape you should've been in as a rookie, it's like a backhanded compliment. I'll be pulling for somebody else to start ahead of him. He's ok for run blocking, but his pass protection sucks.

Meanwhile, I like the Jeffcoat signing. Some things to work on, but it's surprising that he didn't get drafted at all. No reports I've seen of legal baggage, either, which makes it even more of a shock that a late round pick by some team wasn't used on him.

Hoping Britt competes enough to make Pete consider starting him. The OL doesn't have to be great, just noticeably better than the disaster of a year ago. The bar is set so low right now, it can only go up.

[RiverDog]

Carpenter still has a lot to prove.

When it's news that you're actually in the kind of shape you should've been in as a rookie, it's like a backhanded compliment. I'll be pulling for somebody else to start ahead of him. He's ok for run blocking, but his pass protection sucks.

Meanwhile, I like the Jeffcoat signing. Some things to work on, but it's surprising that he didn't get drafted at all. No reports I've seen of legal baggage, either, which makes it even more of a shock that a late round pick by some team wasn't used on him.

Hoping Britt competes enough to make Pete consider starting him. The OL doesn't have to be great, just noticeably better than the disaster of a year ago. The bar is set so low right now, it can only go up.

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.

[savvyman]

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.

Agree with you, it was inexcusable and nearly unforgivable the condition that Carpenter arrived in training camp that year - - I remember quite a few people on the PI board coming to his defense and making excuses for him. Some people really have a bad case of "Hometownitus".

Hopefully this year will be a year of redemption for the three year failure known as James Carpenter.

[NorthHawk]

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.

Agree with you, it was inexcusable and nearly unforgivable the condition that Carpenter arrived in training camp that year - - I remember quite a few people on the PI board coming to his defense and making excuses for him. Some people really have a bad case of "Hometownitus".

Hopefully this year will be a year of redemption for the three year failure known as James Carpenter.

Some players take a couple of years to "get it". I'm hopeful that Carpenter is one of those.
However, he's still close to becoming a non factor with the Seahawks and if he can't become consistently good, he'll never be more than just a backup at best.

[HumanCockroach]

Carpenter is one of the most frustrating types of players, I think he "gets it" problem is he doesn't do it on a consistent basis, and never has since arriving. He is a dominant physical football player, however, while he can literally maul another player on one play, one or two plays later, he'll be so late on a block that it looks as though he's not moving. Players that are inconsistent IMHO are the most frustrating types of players to coach or watch. Obviously Carroll and company believe he is one of the most talented players on that line, and in that draft, but they can't get that talent to show on a game by game, much less a play by play basis...

[Zorn76]

Carpenter still has a lot to prove.

When it's news that you're actually in the kind of shape you should've been in as a rookie, it's like a backhanded compliment. I'll be pulling for somebody else to start ahead of him. He's ok for run blocking, but his pass protection sucks.

Meanwhile, I like the Jeffcoat signing. Some things to work on, but it's surprising that he didn't get drafted at all. No reports I've seen of legal baggage, either, which makes it even more of a shock that a late round pick by some team wasn't used on him.

Hoping Britt competes enough to make Pete consider starting him. The OL doesn't have to be great, just noticeably better than the disaster of a year ago. The bar is set so low right now, it can only go up.

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.[/quote]

[Zorn76]

Carpenter still has a lot to prove.

When it's news that you're actually in the kind of shape you should've been in as a rookie, it's like a backhanded compliment. I'll be pulling for somebody else to start ahead of him. He's ok for run blocking, but his pass protection sucks.

Meanwhile, I like the Jeffcoat signing. Some things to work on, but it's surprising that he didn't get drafted at all. No reports I've seen of legal baggage, either, which makes it even more of a shock that a late round pick by some team wasn't used on him.

Hoping Britt competes enough to make Pete consider starting him. The OL doesn't have to be great, just noticeably better than the disaster of a year ago. The bar is set so low right now, it can only go up.

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.

[/quote]

I'd love to eat my words on this - if Carpenter doesn't do it first:) - Z76

[HumanCockroach]

I agree his pass blocking sucks, that said I pointed out in another thread, that when you look at what the Seattle offense has done for the last 4 years, the Carpenter pick actually makes sense. I don't feel like breaking it all down again, but we have seen Carroll and company be MORE than willing to "specialise" positions, and position groups, I'm not so sure that because of the desire to have a power running game, doesn't place Carpenter ahead of say a player that can pass block well but is trash in run blocking. When looking at in that way, the Carpenter pick, and the choices of other offensive lineman ( as well as the choice of Cable to be the line coach, when he has never produced a solid pass protection result at any of his stops in the NFL) start to make sense.

in essence, I just don't get the feeling that Carroll places the premium on pass protection like pretty much anyone else, and that can even be extrapolated out to the types of receivers he continues to draft, and procure ( for instance I don't feel the desire to continue to draft and trade for players that are great with the ball in their hands after the catch, is just coincidence), what is one way to protect a QB with a poor pass blocking line? Get guys that can take a quick pass the distance ( see Manning at pretty much every stop he has had), and it seems at least when investigating it from that angle, that they CHOSE a dominant run blocking system, and mitigated the pass protection problems with the receivers. Of course if you can FIND both, you draft them and never let them go, but FINDING them is DAMN hard, and I really do believe, that the moves they have made, mimics that thought process....

[Zorn76]

I agree his pass blocking sucks, that said I pointed out in another thread, that when you look at what the Seattle offense has done for the last 4 years, the Carpenter pick actually makes sense. I don't feel like breaking it all down again, but we have seen Carroll and company be MORE than willing to "specialise" positions, and position groups, I'm not so sure that because of the desire to have a power running game, doesn't place Carpenter ahead of say a player that can pass block well but is trash in run blocking. When looking at in that way, the Carpenter pick, and the choices of other offensive lineman ( as well as the choice of Cable to be the line coach, when he has never produced a solid pass protection result at any of his stops in the NFL) start to make sense.

in essence, I just don't get the feeling that Carroll places the premium on pass protection like pretty much anyone else, and that can even be extrapolated out to the types of receivers he continues to draft, and procure ( for instance I don't feel the desire to continue to draft and trade for players that are great with the ball in their hands after the catch, is just coincidence), what is one way to protect a QB with a poor pass blocking line? Get guys that can take a quick pass the distance ( see Manning at pretty much every stop he has had), and it seems at least when investigating it from that angle, that they CHOSE a dominant run blocking system, and mitigated the pass protection problems with the receivers. Of course if you can FIND both, you draft them and never let them go, but FINDING them is DAMN hard, and I really do believe, that the moves they have made, mimics that thought process....

Well said, HC.

But while I get your point about how Pete (and Cable) "specialize" positions - including OL - I still have difficulty giving Carp a pass for his overall play since he arrived. He has inspired moments at times in the run game, but for a 1st round pick still falls way short.

It comes down to upside, IMO, and there isn't enough for him to earn the benefit of the doubt. In other words, if he's "tied" with another prospect, then I give the nod to the new guy, whoever that may be. I know it's risky - JC has been on the team and is more familiar with the system - but I'd rather find out what a new guy has, and how quickly he improves, if at all.

This OL still needs a makeover. Okung and Unger get passing grades, though each of them have their own issues, but the rest is up for grabs. It's a tiresome topic, but Seattle has just about everything else in place outside of the line.

My mantra the last few years has been this: An OL needs time to gel, but you better have a line worth gelling.

We haven't had all the right pieces in place up front for awhile now. It needs to be recast until we get it right.

[HumanCockroach]

I think often I am misunderstood about the line. I'm not giving him a pass, nor am I ever saying I don't want the line improved, I just refuse to take it to the point of calling them garbage, which I honestly don't feel any of them are, or busts. In my opinion bust= out of the league ( so Moffitt would be, Carpenter and Sweezy aren't at least right now, and I do believe they can indeed play in the NFL)....

[Zorn76]

I think often I am misunderstood about the line. I'm not giving him a pass, nor am I ever saying I don't want the line improved, I just refuse to take it to the point of calling them garbage, which I honestly don't feel any of them are, or busts. In my opinion bust= out of the league ( so Moffitt would be, Carpenter and Sweezy aren't at least right now, and I do believe they can indeed play in the NFL)....

I hear ya.
We just see it slightly different.

For all intents and purposes, I see Carpenter as a 1st rd bust.
He's far enough along to where he should be a solid, legit starter. And IMO, he isn't.

I'd love for him to step up and prove the naysayers like myself wrong. I really would.
But my money is on somebody else taking his place, starting this fall.

I understand you're not saying he's great, it's just I'm not willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, no matter what kind of shape he's in physically now.

If the Seahawks had a "Kelly Jennings" award for underachieving, JC would get my vote.

[HumanCockroach]

Don't get me started on Jennings. We'll see, Carpenter IMHO lacks consistent effort, whether that can be ever attained by him remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be surprised by him finding it ( though as I've said it may come somewhere else at this point).

[Eaglehawk]

Don't get me started on Jennings. We'll see, Carpenter IMHO lacks consistent effort, whether that can be ever attained by him remains to be seen, but I wouldn't be surprised by him finding it ( though as I've said it may come somewhere else at this point).

If he finds "it", then T'is the Season to be jolly, fa, la la la la, la la, la, la.


I suspect that he in his last season with the hawks unless he dramatically improves from his previous play.
I don't see him improving to his first round caliber stock.

[HumanCockroach]

I'm on record that this is his final season whether he finds consistency or not. If he finds it some team will be willing to pay him more than the Hawks will be willing to, if he doesn't, I still believe he remains in the NFL ( simply disagree that he is in the bottom 5% of the NFL LINEMAN currently on rosters in the NFL) but at a much reduced price, and the Hawks will look to jettison him. Really I don't see much of a chance for him to return, unless he all of a sudden turns into a PB performer willing to take a low end deal, which I just don't see as possible.....

[RiverDog]

I'm on record that this is his final season whether he finds consistency or not. If he finds it some team will be willing to pay him more than the Hawks will be willing to, if he doesn't, I still believe he remains in the NFL ( simply disagree that he is in the bottom 5% of the NFL LINEMAN currently on rosters in the NFL) but at a much reduced price, and the Hawks will look to jettison him. Really I don't see much of a chance for him to return, unless he all of a sudden turns into a PB performer willing to take a low end deal, which I just don't see as possible.....

There's not a lot to disagree with in the above comments, and I think it's quite possible that Carpenter is getting the same sensation that we have been talking about in this thread, ie that his days are numbered, which could be a key motivating factor in what appears to be a drive to work himself into shape. Actually, he's fortunate as our OL is very thin, especially on veteran experience, and we can't really afford to let him walk this season even if the two rookies make the squad. The competition on the OL is as poorer than it is anywhere else on the roster.

But we'll see. These reports about him losing weight is encouraging. But even if he rises to the best playing shape of his career, that still isn't saying much and might not be enough to insure him of a roster spot as we go forward.

[RiverDog]

It strikes me that JS/PC may have learned a lesson when they picked Carpenter, to pay more attention to attitude and conditioning. Since he was taken, subsequent picks seem to be highly motivated and competitive. With Carp, I think they fell in love with his strength and size and did not take note of his laziness.

Perhaps. All good managers are constantly re-evaluating their decisions to see if there is something they can improve on, clues they may have missed or didn't assign more importance to.

But all of those guys have been in the talent evaluation business a long time. Pete and Cable combined must have been doing this for some 60 years, so I doubt that missing on one pick is going to cause them to change some fundamental part of their analysis technique. I'm sure this is not the first time any of them have fricked up badly on a player, it's just that this one is perhaps the most visible mistake to the masses.

[nlbmsportin]

Yea, for the first time since 1937, Texas didn't have a single player drafted. Amazing when you consider the fact that they are by far the most profitable football program in the country.

A sore subject if there ever was one. My freshman year the Horns won the Fiesta Bowl over Terrell Pryor's Ohio State after Crabtree ruined their National Title aspirations down in Lubbock. Sophomore year we lost to 'Bama in the title game after Marcel Dareus knocked Colt McCoy out within the first five minutes of the game. We thought we would just do fine with Garrett Gilbert at QB. Cannon for an arm...and not much else. It's been a long, painful 3 years of recognizing what everyone has been reluctant to admit: the Longhorns are an entitled bunch that think they can win with any McCoy, any Shipley, and some track athletes. RGIII and Manziel go to historically lesser programs because they wouldn't play QB here.

Blah

[NorthHawk]

A snippet from Pete's observations about the first few days of Rookie Camp - my cut and paste is focusing on the OL but there is more in the link:

(On Garrett Scott…) “Yeah he still hasn’t passed his physical so we’re still working through that.”

(On Garry Gilliam…) “Yeah he played left tackle. He’s an extraordinary athlete. He was a tight end coming up and was moved late in his career at Penn State. He has really good mobility, he has the left tackle type of quickness, he’s over 300 pounds, a big solid well balanced kid, and he did very well. He looked very good at the spot so that’s a real plus for us. we need help there, we need the competition there, and Justin Britt kind of stuck at the right side, Garry stuck in on the left side and both of the guys looked really fitting at their spots.”

(On Justin Britt…) “He picked everything up, he’s very well prepared technique wise, he has real good footwork, his base is real good, his balance is real good for a big man, he moved well off of the line of scrimmage, he won’t have any trouble learning, it’s going to take some time of course, but he won’t any trouble picking stuff up. He’s a real serious, mature kid and I think he would jump right into the competition exactly like we had planned. I think he would be right there with Michael Bowie and they will be battling it out.”

http://blog.thenewstribune.com/seahawks ... rylink=cpy

[HumanCockroach]

Sounds positive, but then again, coaches always sound positive at this time of the year ( and in Pete's case, I'm not sure about a time when he didn't sound positive about a player, often times he had nothing but glowing comments about someone, and then cut him the same day) so we'll see. Wish it was here already stupid dog days of summer.

[RiverDog]

Sounds positive, but then again, coaches always sound positive at this time of the year ( and in Pete's case, I'm not sure about a time when he didn't sound positive about a player, often times he had nothing but glowing comments about someone, and then cut him the same day) so we'll see. Wish it was here already stupid dog days of summer.

I was going to say that, but hesitated as surely someone would call me a Pete hater for noting how full of B.S. he can be...not that he's any different than the majority of head coaches. About the best you can hope for out of these types of statements from Pete is a coded word or two, a facial expression, or some other type of signal to give us a clue as to what his true thoughts are on the matter.

The other thing I've come not to trust is all these glowing reports that flow out of training camps. The beat reporters that cover the team in camp can be more of a propaganda machine than an objective analysis of the team compared to their competition. They know that if they write an article that is less than complimentary that their sources will suddenly dry up and they'll be without a job.

[NorthHawk]

At this point it's just something to give us fans and maybe a heads up about who might have a chance to break into the lineup.

[HumanCockroach]

Sounds positive, but then again, coaches always sound positive at this time of the year ( and in Pete's case, I'm not sure about a time when he didn't sound positive about a player, often times he had nothing but glowing comments about someone, and then cut him the same day) so we'll see. Wish it was here already stupid dog days of summer.

I was going to say that, but hesitated as surely someone would call me a Pete hater for noting how full of B.S. he can be...not that he's any different than the majority of head coaches. About the best you can hope for out of these types of statements from Pete is a coded word or two, a facial expression, or some other type of signal to give us a clue as to what his true thoughts are on the matter.

The other thing I've come not to trust is all these glowing reports that flow out of training camps. The beat reporters that cover the team in camp can be more of a propaganda machine than an objective analysis of the team compared to their competition. They know that if they write an article that is less than complimentary that their sources will suddenly dry up and they'll be without a job.

ASF isn't here, so you're safe like I posted and you said, all coaches say this stuff. Nothing but positive statements about Rice Jr coming out of Baltimore yesterday, and was not offered a contract today for the 90 man roster. This stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Maybe they really did impress, or maybe coaches don't want to tip their hand/ kick a man who is about to be told his dream, while not over, isn't going to be fulfilled here. Just the way it is.

[RiverDog]

Sounds positive, but then again, coaches always sound positive at this time of the year ( and in Pete's case, I'm not sure about a time when he didn't sound positive about a player, often times he had nothing but glowing comments about someone, and then cut him the same day) so we'll see. Wish it was here already stupid dog days of summer.

I was going to say that, but hesitated as surely someone would call me a Pete hater for noting how full of B.S. he can be...not that he's any different than the majority of head coaches. About the best you can hope for out of these types of statements from Pete is a coded word or two, a facial expression, or some other type of signal to give us a clue as to what his true thoughts are on the matter.

The other thing I've come not to trust is all these glowing reports that flow out of training camps. The beat reporters that cover the team in camp can be more of a propaganda machine than an objective analysis of the team compared to their competition. They know that if they write an article that is less than complimentary that their sources will suddenly dry up and they'll be without a job.

ASF isn't here, so you're safe like I posted and you said, all coaches say this stuff. Nothing but positive statements about Rice Jr coming out of Baltimore yesterday, and was not offered a contract today for the 90 man roster. This stuff has to be taken with a grain of salt IMO. Maybe they really did impress, or maybe coaches don't want to tip their hand/ kick a man who is about to be told his dream, while not over, isn't going to be fulfilled here. Just the way it is.

There's a limited amount of information you can glean from a coach's interview. They are not going to disclose any information that might give an advantage to their opponents, they are not going to be completely honest if there is anything negative in their opinion of a player, and they are going to describe every opponent on their schedule as the greatest team since the '72 Dolphins.

[briwas101]

Carpenter still has a lot to prove.

When it's news that you're actually in the kind of shape you should've been in as a rookie, it's like a backhanded compliment. I'll be pulling for somebody else to start ahead of him. He's ok for run blocking, but his pass protection sucks.

Meanwhile, I like the Jeffcoat signing. Some things to work on, but it's surprising that he didn't get drafted at all. No reports I've seen of legal baggage, either, which makes it even more of a shock that a late round pick by some team wasn't used on him.

Hoping Britt competes enough to make Pete consider starting him. The OL doesn't have to be great, just noticeably better than the disaster of a year ago. The bar is set so low right now, it can only go up.

You know, it wasn't when Carpenter was drafted that got me down on him. I clearly objected, but others calmed me down a bit by reminding me that he was drafted with a fall back plan of moving to guard if he didn't make it at tackle (so much for that logic, huh?) What got me so down on Carpenter was his very first preseason game when he was so obviously out of shape. I couldn't imagine being a first round draft pick and reporting to camp in the type of shape he did. It was inexcusable in my book, and an indication of a poor work ethic, and to this day, I still haven't gotten over it or forgiven him for it.

But I won't go so far as saying that I hope he doesn't make it.

Coming to camp out of shape permanently put him in my doghouse.

When 99% of football fans have no idea who you are and everyone (even your coach) knows you were drafted waaaaaay too early the last thing you can do is show up looking EVEN WORSE than before the draft.

Too many people gave carp the benefit of the doubt by saying "he didnt have his college conditioning program to help him" and "he was locked out like everyone else so he couldn't work with Hawks coaches".

Guess what? Im in better shape than Carpenter has ever been and I dont need a coach or a trainer.

He spent YEARS doing drills and exercises, is he so stupid that he couldn't remember a single one of them so he could work out privately?

The only exercise Carp got was walking to the fridge or walking to his car so he could drive to McDonalds.

That sounds to me like the kind of employee who only does the right thing when he is being watched. As soon as the boss leaves he can't be relied on.

If he had come to camp in shape it probably would have changed his injury history and instead of us flat-out needing to upgrade over him we might be talking about whether or not he is worth re-signing.

[RiverDog]

Too many people gave carp the benefit of the doubt by saying "he didnt have his college conditioning program to help him" and "he was locked out like everyone else so he couldn't work with Hawks coaches".

Agreed. People were flat out making excuses for him because they found it difficult to admit that Pete and John are human and subject to missing every once in awhile. Sure, Carp was locked out of the Hawk's training facility, but he wasn't locked out of Gold's Gym.

[NorthHawk]

He might have been one of those guys in college who succeeded largely by size alone.
If so, he wouldn't have developed good work habits.
In any event he wasn't a good choice at that time in that draft.
Let's hope he's figured it out.

[HumanCockroach]

Might be an example of them over evaluating their ability to motivate a player. Carpenter has ALL of the physical tools to dominate at an NFL level ( and I am being serious about that, Hutch had no more physical ability, though obviously a work ethic light years above Carps) they have been extremely successful finding guys with unique traits and making it not just work, but become dominant. Maybe in Carpenters case they felt they could do the same, and simply misread the signs. Carpenter WAS indeed the strongest lineman in his draft, and while drafted early ( though not nearly as early as say Britt or Richardson this year) it wasn't as drastic as some seem to remember ( I think Maycock had him listed as a mid second round talent) it was a "reach" but it wasn't say drafting a guy rated a 5th rounder at the end of the second or something ( which they have done numerous times with very solid results ). Carpenter hasn't lived up to expectations, but I still see talent there, that said, there is a sh!t ton of guys that had talent coming into the NFL that never did much of anything. We'll see where Carpenter ends up ( though sadly IMHO it will be on another team).

[RiverDog]

Might be an example of them over evaluating their ability to motivate a player. Carpenter has ALL of the physical tools to dominate at an NFL level ( and I am being serious about that, Hutch had no more physical ability, though obviously a work ethic light years above Carps) they have been extremely successful finding guys with unique traits and making it not just work, but become dominant. Maybe in Carpenters case they felt they could do the same, and simply misread the signs. Carpenter WAS indeed the strongest lineman in his draft, and while drafted early ( though not nearly as early as say Britt or Richardson this year) it wasn't as drastic as some seem to remember ( I think Maycock had him listed as a mid second round talent) it was a "reach" but it wasn't say drafting a guy rated a 5th rounder at the end of the second or something ( which they have done numerous times with very solid results ). Carpenter hasn't lived up to expectations, but I still see talent there, that said, there is a sh!t ton of guys that had talent coming into the NFL that never did much of anything. We'll see where Carpenter ends up ( though sadly IMHO it will be on another team).

I don't fully agree. Don't forget, Carpenter was drafted as a tackle, and showed almost no ability to perform at that position. The only Seahawk tackle I've seen in my nearly 40 years of following the team that was a worse misjudgment of talent was Ray Roberts. It's almost as if they felt that they had to draft Carpenter as a tackle in order to rationalize spending a first round pick on him.

[HumanCockroach]

Not going to debate this. You're welcome to your opinion, I've pointed out the "versatility" importance for this FO numerous times, so no need to rehash it.Tons of Tackles drafted end up at guard or start at guard in fact, there are multiple HIGH picks this season expected to start there. Whether they move to tackle or not remains to be seen.

[NorthHawk]

Did they draft him as a Tackle or just OL and hope that he would be the RT, but if not he would fit in the mix somewhere?
I know they said Tackle when drafted, and tried him there, but the way Cable works and wants his OL to be able to play anywhere along the line it's not exactly clear he was drafted specifically for the Tackle position.
I, along with many if not most fans thought he was selected to be the RT for a long time.
I'm just not sure we were right in that assumption.
They haven't made that type of statement on the OL for any of the other draftees since so maybe it was a mistake by the FO to state it then.
As it stands, that pick wasn't our finest hour. Carpenter has to really show something to get a new contract and even then I would think the offer would be very Cap friendly and loaded with incentives.

[HumanCockroach]

Might be an example of them over evaluating their ability to motivate a player. Carpenter has ALL of the physical tools to dominate at an NFL level ( and I am being serious about that, Hutch had no more physical ability, though obviously a work ethic light years above Carps) they have been extremely successful finding guys with unique traits and making it not just work, but become dominant. Maybe in Carpenters case they felt they could do the same, and simply misread the signs. Carpenter WAS indeed the strongest lineman in his draft, and while drafted early ( though not nearly as early as say Britt or Richardson this year) it wasn't as drastic as some seem to remember ( I think Maycock had him listed as a mid second round talent) it was a "reach" but it wasn't say drafting a guy rated a 5th rounder at the end of the second or something ( which they have done numerous times with very solid results ). Carpenter hasn't lived up to expectations, but I still see talent there, that said, there is a sh!t ton of guys that had talent coming into the NFL that never did much of anything. We'll see where Carpenter ends up ( though sadly IMHO it will be on another team).

I don't fully agree. Don't forget, Carpenter was drafted as a tackle, and showed almost no ability to perform at that position. The only Seahawk tackle I've seen in my nearly 40 years of following the team that was a worse misjudgment of talent was Ray Roberts. It's almost as if they felt that they had to draft Carpenter as a tackle in order to rationalize spending a first round pick on him.

Plenty of guards drafted at the end of the first round, why they felt it necessary to justify their pick I haven't a clue, but regardless, I still see talent. Whether he harnesses that talent IMHO remains to be seen, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.

[NorthHawk]

That draft wasn't really very good for OL after the first 16 picks. Some of the others are having problems getting it together, too.

[HumanCockroach]

That draft wasn't really very good for OL after the first 16 picks. Some of the others are having problems getting it together, too.

Yeah, something I have been pointing out since that draft. No O-lineman picked after Carpenter ( at least that I have knowledge of) has provided anymore production, whether they be OT or OG, not giving the guy a pass for his inconsistency,just think the thought that someone selected at the end of the first round, should automatically excell is simply a flawed thought process. When picking from a punch bowl full of turds, expecting to pull out a rose, is unrealistic.....

[RiverDog]

That draft wasn't really very good for OL after the first 16 picks. Some of the others are having problems getting it together, too.

Yeah, something I have been pointing out since that draft. No O-lineman picked after Carpenter ( at least that I have knowledge of) has provided anymore production, whether they be OT or OG, not giving the guy a pass for his inconsistency,just think the thought that someone selected at the end of the first round, should automatically excell is simply a flawed thought process. When picking from a punch bowl full of turds, expecting to pull out a rose, is unrealistic.....

A lot of us, including myself, used that rationalization for the Curry pick, ie the draft class sucked. IMO that is not an acceptable excuse for making a poor decision. A bad pick is a bad pick. Period.